3 Reasons Why You May Not Be Getting Big Results From Taking Guitar Lessons

Have you ever tried taking guitar lessons and ended up quitting in frustration, because you felt you weren’t making enough progress? Or perhaps you have considered taking lessons but because someone you know had a disappointing experience with a teacher, you began to doubt if lessons are worth investing your time and money. This perception prevents you from getting all that you want from your guitar lessons.

There can be many reasons why people quit guitar lessons. Sometimes it is because the teacher failed to inspire you, or because the lessons weren’t focused enough on your specific musical goals, or because the teacher was only mediocre and didn’t know how to help you achieve a specific result. (To avoid this problem download this free guide on how to choose a guitar teacher) However, another (often misunderstood) reason might be that your own approach to lessons wasn’t as effective as it needed to be in order for you to make real progress.

After teaching tens of thousands of music lessons to all types of guitarists and also mentoring guitar teachers around the world on how to teach more effectively, I began to notice similar and consistent patterns used by most students for learning to play guitar.

I also noticed that the specific approach the students applied to studying with a teacher had a direct influence on their progress. Very often 2 different people can get very different results by studying with the same guitar teacher, because the ways in which the students approached the learning process in general are very different. For example, one student believed that he knew better than the teacher did about how to reach his musical goals and resisted some of the instruction his teacher was giving him. It later became very clear to him that he did not know better. You can hear his story about how he failed here. The other student soaked up everything his teacher was instructing him to do and quickly became a world class guitar virtuoso.

I have found there are 3 types of students who become easily frustrated with their lessons. As you read the rest of this article, be honest and ask yourself if any of these 3 descriptions sound like you. I’ll be the first to admit that at one point I had the characteristics of each of the “ineffective student behaviors” presented below. Looking back many years later, I now understand that one of the reasons why it took me as long as it did to master the guitar (more than 20 years), was due to my own inefficient approaches to learning when I began the journey.

The “Teach Me Something New Today” Student Type

You may think it is common sense that guitar lessons should consist mainly of presenting new content, and expect that the guitar teacher’s primary job is to show you things that are “new” to you. However, if we examine this approach a bit deeper, you will see that focusing “only” on seeking out new information will not bring big results long term.

First of all, too much new content quickly leads to overwhelm and burn out (and does not allow enough time to apply the information you are learning). This feeling of overwhelm is what causes you to become frustrated and quit lessons (or worse yet, quit guitar). Second, simply “learning new things” does not lead to mastery. I have had many students come to me being able to do some cool things on guitar. For example, they may have good technique, or a good understanding of how music works, or have good ears. But more often than not, their ability to APPLY and INTEGRATE what they “know” to playing music was very poor. At this point, “learning more new things” is not going to help these students to significantly advance their guitar playing. Simply being “aware” of a concept is not enough. You don’t truly “know” something until you can apply and integrate it with your other musical skills fluently.

This type of training in applying and integrating what you know is probably the single most valuable thing you get out of music lessons and is one area of musical development that is almost universally lacking in many guitarists. This results in massive frustration and disappointment that many players often experience (but often do not realize WHY they are frustrated).

When you take lessons for the first time, you may think that it is great that your teacher shows you something new in each lesson. But if your teacher does nothing else than “show you things”, then as more lessons go by, you will start to notice that you are not really making any significant progress (because no application and integration is taking place). Most people will quit lessons at this point, and will continue to perpetuate the myth that guitar lessons are ineffective, without really understanding the real reasons for their lack of progress.

The type of student who is only interested in learning new things, typically does not stick with lessons for very long. If a teacher begins to talk about a concept the student may already be familiar with, the lesson is perceived to be a waste of time. Because these students may have heard about this concept from somewhere else, they believe that they “already know it”.

Of course, receiving new information is a part of any comprehensive lesson plan (and certainly you will learn a lot of new things by taking lessons), but it is the order in which this information is presented, and the way you are trained to USE, APPLY and integrate that information that makes lessons with a good teacher so valuable. If learning “raw data” in a linear fashion (and practicing) was all it took to become a great musician, then anyone could buy some books and after studying them for a few years and practicing on his/her own become a highly advanced guitarist. Of course most of the time, this doesn’t happen.

The moral of the story here is to remember that you came to your teacher to learn and grow as a guitar player. In order for this to actually happen you will need to have some patience through the process and realize that sometimes when you ‘think you know something’, you in fact may not really know it yet to the point that you can apply it and integrate it with your other musical skills.

The Perfectionist

The next type of student wants to master every little thing their teacher presents in a lesson (or that they discover on their own) before working on anything else. While on the surface this seems like a good idea, it is far from the most efficient approach to becoming a great musician. Learning music is best done in a non-linear approach, meaning that multiple things should be worked on simultaneously without stressing out about totally mastering everything in a linear order. Discover more about why the typical linear approach guitar players follow often fails in this video about how to learn and master guitar playing.

I like to compare learning music to baking a cake. You don’t make a cake by cooking one ingredient at a time and then finally putting them together when each one is ready. If you baked your cake in this way, it would take you a long time to finish and more importantly the cake would not taste as good as when the ingredients are cooked together!

The same goes for musical skills. If you waited until you became a great virtuoso master of technique before beginning to work on (mastering) music theory, then turning to songwriting, and then switching to improvising, it could take you many decades to finally become really good and your skills would not likely be integrated together. What I recommend to you is to follow a non-linear approach (as described in the video above). When learning a new skill, don’t wait until you completely master it; only make sure that you have the fundamentals down and begin immediately to look for contexts to apply it. Then work on integrating this new skill with everything else that you know how to do/play. Application and integration are unique skills that must be practiced separately. This key link will enable you to go from being “the student” who is able to “do lots of things” on the guitar, to becoming a great player who can use all of his musical skills to achieve complete musical expression.

This (non-linear) approach will also prevent you from getting out of balance with your skills and at any level of your musical development, you will be able to apply and integrate everything you know. It is important to note that a ‘non-linear approach’ is NOT an ‘illogical’ approach. So if you are looking for a systematic and logical approach to learning guitar, you should understand that this systematic, geometric (non-linear) strategy IS in fact the most effective, most efficient and most logical path possible.

The Challenger

This personality type often comes out in a player who has been playing for a while and has studied with other guitar teachers in the past. This student may come into their first lesson full of preconceived ideas about what lessons should be like, and dictating to the teacher what and how to teach. I should clarify here that I am not talking about asking questions when you don’t understand something or telling your teacher about your goals. There is a big difference between doing that, and trying to dictate to the teacher what and how to teach. If the student knew that much more about teaching than the teacher, then the student would BE the teacher, right? If you know how to successfully learn guitar on your own and you are truly happy with your progress without a teacher, then maybe you don’t need guitar lessons. But if you seek help from a qualified teacher, this means you realized that whatever you were doing on your own wasn’t working as well as you wanted it to. Therefore, you should accept the fact (or at least the high probability) that your teacher knows many times more about playing and teaching guitar than you do and can successfully teach you to play well. (Otherwise, why would you give the teacher your money?) Of course not all guitar teachers are the same, and some are much more qualified to teach than others. If you follow the advice I give in the guide for choosing a guitar teacher, you will be sure to find the best teacher for you.

I always tell my students that in order for them to receive the most benefit from working with me, it is their job to articulate to me their specific musical goals and list their musical challenges. Then it is MY job to come up with the most effective strategy possible to solve their problems and get them to their stated goals as quickly as possible. But in order for that to happen, they need to have faith in me as a teacher, and commit themselves to moving forward together through the learning and training process. My most satisfied and advanced students all followed this advice.

If your guitar teacher has already created many great musicians, chances are, he knows what he is doing and will be able to help you as well. But his ability to help you will be limited (and the process will take much longer), if you constantly challenge everything he tells you to do. Again, asking questions about something you don’t understand is normal, and is part of the learning process. But creating the overall lesson plan is your teacher’s primary responsibility, not yours.

In many of my previous articles, I mentioned that working with a teacher is the fastest and most direct way to achieve your goals. But if you want to truly maximize your rate of progress, you should also analyze the way in which YOU approach studying with a teacher. Even if you choose to study on your own, I still strongly encourage you to analyze your approach to learning and practicing the guitar and see if it can be improved.

There are many variables that affect the rate of your improvement while learning to play guitar. If you align all of them in your favor (by studying with a great teacher, adapting the most effective approach to learning, developing powerful practice habits, and more) then you will become really unstoppable!

If you recognize yourself as one of the student types described above, think about your current approach to learning guitar and if necessary, make the decision to change that mindset. On the surface it may seem like a small action to take, but the difference this can make to your guitar playing may be greater than you have ever even imagined before!

Want to know how to choose the right teacher for you? Download the free guide for choosing a teacher.

About the author: Tom Hess is a professional touring guitarist and recording artist. He teaches, trains and mentors musicians from around the world. Visit www.tomhess.net to discover highly effective music learning resources, online guitar lessons and tools including free online assessments, surveys, mini courses and more.

Comments

[PleaseDie]

1st?
Nice article. I'm learning with a teacher, and I think it's useful (not necessary) cuz he corrects me and shows me how to play right.

[ZeGuitarist]

I'm sorry, but this article is a joke. Like his last article, it's no more than a big self-advertisement. "Check out my lesson" here, "download this guide" there... This otherwise informative article gets completely ruined by utter egotripping.

[Colohue]

Agreed. This behavioural stereotyping of students would be potentially useful if it was an actual article for UG rather than an attempt at self-advertisement.

Not only that, but the links are a little random. You give links for teaching as well as links for learning. Who exactly is your target audience.

Content is good though. I agree with the personal analysis aspect.

[Rocker_geek]

Tom Hess = f***ing fail. And a joke "look at me i am so awesome that nobody has even heard of me or my band"

[g0dd4rd]

nice article i think that the types you describe can be also different phases for just one student.

[JonasStevens]

If you can't do, teach?

[vash_08]

surprise surprise, another Tom Hess advertisement.

[Atilladude]

Trial and error generally works for choosing a guitar teacher. You can go through all the steps you want but until you sit with a teacher you won't know what it's going to be like.

Everyone has misconceptions about everything until they really try it... Even independent from the advertisement I don't really understand the point of this article.

The whole point of this site is for self-enrichment whether you're taking lessons or not.

[gtmom]

Sorry, Tommy, but this reads like you you're berating your students. Who wants a teacher who rips them up in a UG "article"?...AND slings spammy advertisement all over the internet. Why does UG even allow this? It looks trashy. Does Tommy pay them? Tom Hess, you're nothing but a marketing tool trying to rip people off.

[J.J.G.]

heyy Tom Hess is this guy still alive? I remember lots of spam and advertising from this guy when i first picked up an electric. never really leraned anything from this guy, always used GMC and David Taub as my main online teachers...

I have a pro cerificate on acoustic and I'm "legaly" capable of teaching advanced acoustic. gotta say that is diferent from teaching some1 to play sweep picking but I think that this guy really nailed on the "student personalitys".

[ZeGuitarist]

So now, the ratings are skyrocketing? I guess Hess linked to this article from his website, and brought in his army of fanboys...

But let's not worry, UG has spoken once before, I think the verdict of "crap article" will fall once again!

[HavokStrife]

You know, I bet you're a great teacher, and you've probably played in front of more people at one show than I did my whole life, but whatever man.

I mean, seriously. Whenever I sit down and try to perfect something, learn all I can from it, and struggle like crazy, I turn around and go back to stuff I was working on before and it's a damn breeze. I'm big on the whole 'struggle to struggle' method.

And it kind of seems like your contradict yourself between the first two. You don't want people to learn something new everyday, but you don't want people to sit and master one thing at a time. So what the hell exactly are you getting at? And as far as the last example goes, that's probably the guy who had too many teachers like you and wants to learn what he wants to learn and he should really just teach himself.

Like, I found an old mp3 I made of me playing about a month after I started. It was ridiculous, huge time spaces in between changing chords, hitting wrong notes, and just generally sounding nothing like I was going for. Now, five years later, completely self taught, I can play cleanly, I can fully maintain my guitar and amp, I can play just about any song I set down to learn, and I can write 10 minute long songs with multiple solos. Now, in all honesty, how much faster could a teacher have expedited that process?

IT'S OK TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY WITHOUT A TEACHER!!!

[IvanGroznij]

Interesting thoughts, i like this article. thanks for taking the time to share it with us.

[ChadCrawford]

Seems like "The Challenger" is the type I have the most frustration with. Great insight, thanks for posting. I don't like teaching them and typically just dump content until they quit. There is nothing I can do to help someone who thinks he is there to teach me how to teach.

[Randy Johnson]

This is helpful for me to see some of my own attitudes as a student but also reveals areas in my teaching practice as well. Thanks for the info.

[tommaso.zillio]

This will become required reading for my students. Thanks for this, Tom.

[WOODY_B]

Wow i dont care if everyone hates Tom Hess, cuz this was a really good article.
As i take gutiar lessons with one of his students, i can really see how good his students are so i listen to all his articles, they really help.

[Jessa Young]

Here's to all you critical jokers: 1) So what if Tom Hess is recruiting students with his article? I bet he doesn't work at McDonald's like you do! 2) There's nothing wrong with being self-taught, but what do you have against learning from someone else? 3) I bet his band is way more famous than yours. I checked some of his credentials out, and he's toured all over the world with bands like Maniwar. 4) I'd rather listen to what he has to say than a bunch of whining idiots like you any day. Take his advice or leave it, but stop crying like a bunch of babies.

[DPClement]

Thanks Tom - very good as usual.

DP.

[Kastöm]

I've never really trusted someone to teach me to play guitar. I have two buddies who took lessons and they quit a couple months into it. Me on the other hand, well all I needed was the guitar handbook and some alone time at home. To me the casual approach just seems more suiting, it is a hobby after all.

[Pannenkoeken]

Even though, as many people have pointed out, this is largely a self-advertisement, there was some good information in ut. I think having a teacher is important.

Just my two cents.

[gtmom]

Why does UG put up with this crap? This is really low class stuff here. Take a hike, Tom, with all your fake user names and votes.

[decayingdave]

ZeGuitarist wrote:

I'm sorry, but this article is a joke. Like his last article, it's no more than a big self-advertisement. "Check out my lesson" here, "download this guide" there... This otherwise informative article gets completely ruined by utter egotripping.

Too True. Teachers are ultimately looking after no.1, seeing as they're running a business it's only logical, but dressing up a gigantic advertisement as something that's actually helpful to newbies is tremendously dishonest and deceptive.

[ZeGuitarist]

Jessa Young wrote:

Here's to all you critical jokers: 1) So what if Tom Hess is recruiting students with his article? I bet he doesn't work at McDonald's like you do!

It's against the rules of UG, that's what.

2) There's nothing wrong with being self-taught, but what do you have against learning from someone else?

According to Tom, everything is wrong with being self-taught.

3) I bet his band is way more famous than yours. I checked some of his credentials out, and he's toured all over the world with bands like Maniwar.

That's mighty fine and all, but that doesn't make you a good teacher.

4) I'd rather listen to what he has to say than a bunch of whining idiots like you any day. Take his advice or leave it, but stop crying like a bunch of babies.

Irony. It is a sweet thing.

[Echoplex]

gtmom wrote:
Tom Hess, you're nothing but a marketing tool trying to rip people off.

:haha
Tom does seem to include lots of ads in his articles.

[Paul Tauterouff]

The Challenger is definitely a tough type of student to deal with!

[Rocker_geek]

Fuck off tom, with your fake usernames and crappy articles.
Anyone noticed the users supporting tom hess have full names as thier usernames. In the previous articles and all. I have never seen Paul Tauterouff, Jessa Young, tommaso.zillio etc. posting in other articles. These are fake usernames

[Rocker_geek]

Also, ZeGuitarist>>>>Tom Hess

[Mike Breen]

Great article!

[Regression]

Yeah, the mods should really check that out. It can't be a coincidence that the only people who appreciate these articles use full names as their usernames.

I hardly see anyone on UG with usernames like that. Until I see a Hess article that is.

[broken fusion!]

Randy Johnson wrote:

This is helpful for me to see some of my own attitudes as a student but also reveals areas in my teaching practice as well. Thanks for the info.

you'e a ****ing joke buddy. you and all the other guys who come on here to give tommy boy a little sucky sucky everytime he posts an article. It's easy to tell who you are too cause you all have first and last names in your user name.
But hey keep rockin your mindless wanking over cheesy synth'd backing tracks. You guys are all so hurting it makes me laugh. and cry a little but not that much. mostly laugh.

[terrencemaddox]

Jessa Young wrote:

Here's to all you critical jokers: 1) So what if Tom Hess is recruiting students with his article? I bet he doesn't work at McDonald's like you do! 2) There's nothing wrong with being self-taught, but what do you have against learning from someone else? 3) I bet his band is way more famous than yours. I checked some of his credentials out, and he's toured all over the world with bands like Maniwar. 4) I'd rather listen to what he has to say than a bunch of whining idiots like you any day. Take his advice or leave it, but stop crying like a bunch of babies.

You obviously just registered to argue on this guys behalf. I know there are many more like you, but I had to quote this due to your awesome strategy for trying to make everyone think you're just a another UG user: "I checked some of his credentials out blah blah blah"...you realize you sound like a underpaid and overly crusty infomercial personality, right?

I'm sorry, I usually try not to rip on articles and their authors, but this dude is NOT legit.

[Atilladude]

I guess my biggest beef is that this article isn't really constructive... If he really was interested in helping people he would offer advice rather than advertise and make generalizations.

[Randy Johnson]

broken fusion! wrote:

Randy Johnson wrote:

This is helpful for me to see some of my own attitudes as a student but also reveals areas in my teaching practice as well. Thanks for the info.

you'e a ****ing joke buddy. you and all the other guys who come on here to give tommy boy a little sucky sucky everytime he posts an article. It's easy to tell who you are too cause you all have first and last names in your user name.
But hey keep rockin your mindless wanking over cheesy synth'd backing tracks. You guys are all so hurting it makes me laugh. and cry a little but not that much. mostly laugh.

Broken Fusion,
If you ever need someone to listen to you, seriously let me know. For you to be as hateful as you are to people including myself and you don't even know me....well....it concerns me for your sake. What's eating you away inside man? Seriously. So if there is anything I can do to help come to my web page (which you can find in one of my UG articles here) and contact me. I would be glad to have a chat with you. I won't charge you a single penny.

[tommaso.zillio]

Rocker_geek wrote:
I have never seen Paul Tauterouff, Jessa Young, tommaso.zillio etc. posting in other articles. These are fake usernames

Well, Google is your friend. Google all these names and see for yourself if we are real or fake.

[oldmetallica]

Lessons are so unnecassary with the help of websites now. You know how I got started? Youtube and Ultimate Guitar.. boom thats all you need.

[Diablo1986]

Broken Fusion,
If you ever need someone to listen to you, seriously let me know. For you to be as hateful as you are to people including myself and you don't even know me....well....it concerns me for your sake. What's eating you away inside man? Seriously. So if there is anything I can do to help come to my web page (which you can find in one of my UG articles here) and contact me. I would be glad to have a chat with you. I won't charge you a single penny.

lmao... looks like more advertisement... screw off dude

[Mike_Philippov]

tommaso.zillio wrote:

Rocker_geek wrote:
I have never seen Paul Tauterouff, Jessa Young, tommaso.zillio etc. posting in other articles. These are fake usernames

Well, Google is your friend. Google all these names and see for yourself if we are real or fake.

Exactly... Paul T wrote an article for this site too, I remember.

Anyway, great article Tom! I have learned a huge amount from you over the years bro...

[Nick Layton]

Excellent article....it will be required reading for my students and also a reminder to myself as i continue to study and get better.

[nileflows]

Hess always publicizes himself. failed !

[nileflows]

the bottomline of this article is this

"About the author: Tom Hess is a professional touring guitarist and recording artist. He teaches, trains and mentors musicians from around the world. Visit www.tomhess.net to discover highly effective music learning resources, online guitar lessons and tools including free online assessments, surveys, mini courses and more." screw you hess

[Vypor]

lame, let me correct you Mr. Hess...

Everyones style of playing is differnt, therefore everyone learns differently, and differnt approaches can work for different people. who are you to say you know everything about teacher guitar, what is any teacher to say they know everything?

As far as this looks to me, just another advertisement. lame.

[Mazzakazza]

UG, why do you let this guy advertise here? 'cos if he isn't paying you, give him and his 'articles' which are just ads, the shunt.

[VKombinator]

Thank you Tom for posting new helpful articles in spite of crap coming from ignorant and blind people.

[misanthropy_inc]

I wish there were some way to report this as spam...

How the **** did this shit get put on the first page?!

[tom1thomas1]

captain douchebag spams again. what a load of crap

[Marq-Paul]

Wow, never heard so much hate before. Sounds like there are a lot of frustrated people on here. You guys should take a class in marketing.

[quazitron]

Jessa Young wrote:

Here's to all you critical jokers: 1) So what if Tom Hess is recruiting students with his article? I bet he doesn't work at McDonald's like you do! 2) There's nothing wrong with being self-taught, but what do you have against learning from someone else? 3) I bet his band is way more famous than yours. I checked some of his credentials out, and he's toured all over the world with bands like Maniwar. 4) I'd rather listen to what he has to say than a bunch of whining idiots like you any day. Take his advice or leave it, but stop crying like a bunch of babies.

Registered on March 5th, 2009. Interesting.

[quazitron]

Marq-Paul wrote:

Wow, never heard so much hate before. Sounds like there are a lot of frustrated people on here. You guys should take a class in marketing.

Registered March 6th, 2009. Interesting.

[ZeGuitarist]

Marq-Paul wrote:

Wow, never heard so much hate before. Sounds like there are a lot of frustrated people on here. You guys should take a class in marketing.

The rules of UG prohibit advertising in articles, so of course we're unhappy with Tom Hess chiming in here with his so-called "advice", which is in fact nothing more than one big advertisement for his website.

Which. ISN'T. Allowed.

It's that simple... you should take a class in common sense.

[Keith P. Boruff]

Thanks for another great article, Tom!

[Paul Tauterouff]

Rocker_geek wrote:
Anyone noticed the users supporting tom hess have full names as thier usernames. In the previous articles and all. I have never seen Paul Tauterouff, Jessa Young, tommaso.zillio etc. posting in other articles. These are fake usernames

Did you ever stop to think that it is because these people are real musicians and not cowards hiding behind fake user names and anonymously attacking other people? I see you visited my profile to see if I was a "real" user. Do you feel smart now? I have written two articles here and will have a third one up soon. How much have you contributed to UG (or to anyone for that matter)?

If you don't like the article just say so, but there is no need for personal attacks and profanity. Act like adults!

[ZeGuitarist]

Paul Tauterouff wrote:

Did you ever stop to think that it is because these people are real musicians and not cowards hiding behind fake user names and anonymously attacking other people? I see you visited my profile to see if I was a "real" user. Do you feel smart now? I have written two articles here and will have a third one up soon. How much have you contributed to UG (or to anyone for that matter)?

If you don't like the article just say so, but there is no need for personal attacks and profanity. Act like adults!

Let me act like an adult for you.

While the information Tom Hess is sharing can be really helpful to some users, he is advertising his website all over the article. This breaks UG rules, and after I've spoken to one of the admins about it, it won't be allowed anymore in the future. Not from Tom Hess, not from anybody.

Second of all, you may be "real musicians" and all, but you're not regular UG users. You're never seen around here... except when Tom Hess posts a new article, in which case you massively come in here and vote straight 10s. The UG regulars clearly don't like Hess' advertising and give low ratings, but they're overrun by your mass vote fixing. I hope you see how that looks fishy to us UGers... Besides, how is that fair to the people who frequent UG, especially the other columnists? They're being fooled by ratings given by non-UGers!

And finally, don't act like you're all better than Rocker_geek for being "smarter" than him, just because you posted more articles than him. For your info, I have written 15 articles here and there's 8 more on the way. But that doesn't make me feel any better than other UG regulars... why should you be any better than him, for the articles you contributed?

Let's face the facts. You like his article, Rocker_geek doesn't. I don't either, and neither does the majority of the UG community. Of which you and your friends obviously aren't a part. So kindly stop harrassing us, for voicing our opinion on Tom Hess' professionally disguised advertisement.

That is all.

[gtmom]

Thank you, ZeGuitarist. Thank you, thank you.

[gtmom]

Thank you, ZeGuitarist. Thank you, thank you. It's good that someone respected around here takes a stand against this. I, and others I'm sure, appreciate it.

[ZeGuitarist]

gtmom wrote:

Thank you, ZeGuitarist. Thank you, thank you. It's good that someone respected around here takes a stand against this. I, and others I'm sure, appreciate it.

Thanks. As you can see, the UG admins agree - the link to the article has been taken off the front page.

[Paul Tauterouff]

ZeGuitarist wrote:
And finally, don't act like you're all better than Rocker_geek for being "smarter" than him, just because you posted more articles than him. For your info, I have written 15 articles here and there's 8 more on the way. But that doesn't make me feel any better than other UG regulars... why should you be any better than him, for the articles you contributed?

My point wasn't that posting articles makes anyone better or smarter than anyone else. It was that he was looking at my profile to discredit me in some way; to say that I am some fake user only to discover that he was wrong.

Anyway, I totally respect your right to your own opinion and appreciate you not having to resort to cuss words to make your point.

[dissonantation]

The Cult Test
Questions 1 to 10
by A. Orange

1. The Guru is always right.
2. You are always wrong.
3. No Exit.
4. No Graduates.
5. Cult-speak.
6. Group-think, Suppression of Dissent, and Enforced Conformity in Thinking
7. Irrationality.
8. Suspension of disbelief.
9. Denigration of competing sects, cults, religions...
10. Personal attacks on critics.
11. Insistence that the cult is THE ONLY WAY.
12. The cult and its members are special.
13. Induction of guilt, and the use of guilt to manipulate cult members.
14. Unquestionable Dogma, Sacred Science, and Infallible Ideology.
15. Indoctrination of members.
16. Appeals to "holy" or "wise" authorities.
17. Instant Community.
18. Instant Intimacy.
19. Surrender To The Cult.
20. Giggly wonderfulness and starry-eyed faith.
21. Personal testimonies of earlier converts.
22. The cult is self-absorbed.
23. Dual Purposes, Hidden Agendas, and Ulterior Motives.
24. Aggressive Recruiting.
25. Deceptive Recruiting.
26. No Humor.
27. You Can't Tell The Truth.
28. Cloning — You become a clone of the cult leader or other elder cult members.
29. You must change your beliefs to conform to the group's beliefs.
30. The End Justifies The Means.
31. Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.
32. Different Levels of Truth.
33. Newcomers can't think right.
34. The Cult Implants Phobias.
35. The Cult is Money-Grubbing.
36. Confession Sessions.
37. A System of Punishments and Rewards.
38. An Impossible Superhuman Model of Perfection.
39. Mentoring.
40. Intrusiveness.
41. Disturbed Guru, Mentally Ill Leader.
42. Disturbed Members, Mentally Ill Followers.
43. Create a sense of powerlessness, covert fear, guilt, and dependency.
44. Dispensed existence
45. Ideology Over Experience, Observation, and Logic
46. Keep them unaware that there is an agenda to change them
47. Thought-Stopping Language. Thought-terminating clichés and slogans.
48. Mystical Manipulation
49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total committment.
50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust
51. Members Get No Respect. They Get Abused.
52. Inconsistency. Contradictory Messages
53. Hierarchical, Authoritarian Power Structure, and Social Castes
54. Front groups, masquerading recruiters, hidden promoters, and disguised propagandists
55. Belief equals truth
56. Use of double-binds
57. The cult leader is not held accountable for his actions.
58. Everybody else needs the guru to boss him around, but nobody bosses the guru around.
59. The guru criticizes everybody else, but nobody criticizes the guru.
60. Dispensed truth and social definition of reality
61. The Guru Is Extra-Special.
62. Flexible, shifting morality
63. Separatism
64. Inability to tolerate criticism
65. A Charismatic Leader
66. Calls to Obliterate Self
67. Don't Trust Your Own Mind.
68. Don't Feel Your Own Feelings.
69. The cult takes over the individual's decision-making process.
70. You Owe The Group.
71. We Have The Panacea.
72. Progressive Indoctrination and Progressive Commitments
73. Magical, Mystical, Unexplainable Workings
74. Trance-Inducing Practices
75. New Identity — Redefinition of Self — Revision of Personal History
76. Membership Rivalry
77. True Believers
78. Scapegoating and Excommunication
79. Promised Powers or Knowledge
80. It's a con. You don't get the promised goodies.
81. Hypocrisy
82. Denial of the truth. Reversal of reality. Rationalization and Denial.
83. Seeing Through Tinted Lenses
84. You can't make it without the cult.
85. Enemy-making and Devaluing the Outsider
86. The cult wants to own you.
87. Channelling or other occult, unchallengeable, sources of information.
88. They Make You Dependent On The Group.
89. Demands For Compliance With The Group
90. Newcomers Need Fixing.
91. Use of the Cognitive Dissonance Technique.
92. Grandiose existence. Bombastic, Grandiose Claims.
93. Black And White Thinking
94. The use of heavy-duty mind control and rapid conversion techniques.
95. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who leaves the cult.
96. Threats of bodily harm or death to someone who criticizes the cult.
97. Appropriation of all of the members' worldly wealth.
98. Making cult members work long hours for free.
99. Total immersion and total isolation.
100. Mass suicide.
Bibliography

[Mazzakazza]

Paul Tauterouff wrote:

Rocker_geek wrote:
Anyone noticed the users supporting tom hess have full names as thier usernames. In the previous articles and all. I have never seen Paul Tauterouff, Jessa Young, tommaso.zillio etc. posting in other articles. These are fake usernames

Did you ever stop to think that it is because these people are real musicians and not cowards hiding behind fake user names and anonymously attacking other people? I see you visited my profile to see if I was a "real" user. Do you feel smart now? I have written two articles here and will have a third one up soon. How much have you contributed to UG (or to anyone for that matter)?

If you don't like the article just say so, but there is no need for personal attacks and profanity. Act like adults!

Yeah. That's a good article you have on UG citing Tom Hess as your mentor and saviour. Great.

[ZeGuitarist]

Paul Tauterouff wrote:

My point wasn't that posting articles makes anyone better or smarter than anyone else. It was that he was looking at my profile to discredit me in some way; to say that I am some fake user only to discover that he was wrong.

Anyway, I totally respect your right to your own opinion and appreciate you not having to resort to cuss words to make your point.

By judging Rocker_geek because he simply looked at your profile, you're in fact discrediting him more than he ever discredited you - you act as if he's some kind of grudge-holding stalker. He's in fact a really nice guy, who is trying to defend what UG stands for.

Also, for your information, one of your fellow Hess followers - by the name of Randy Johnson - visited my profile, after which he proceeded giving rock bottom ratings to one of my articles. If anything, I'd call THAT unrespectful.

Be advised that any more actions like that will result in appropriate reaction from the UG admins. Like I said, they aren't very pleased with Hess' attempts at disguised advertisement as it is...

[ZeGuitarist]

One more thing I forgot to add: the poster above me is right (Mazzakazza), again you succeed in slipping a couple of links to Hess' website into your article. Regardless of the content of your article (I haven't read it), that's not allowed... nor is the mass "vote fixing" we're witnessing here.

[Paul Tauterouff]

ZeGuitarist wrote:
By judging Rocker_geek because he simply looked at your profile, you're in fact discrediting him more than he ever discredited you - you act as if he's some kind of grudge-holding stalker. He's in fact a really nice guy, who is trying to defend what UG stands for.

I don't know the guy, all I could base my judgement on is the fact that he accused me of having a fake profile and also used profanity in his post. I don't hold a grudge or anything - I just felt personally insulted because he specifically used my name.

The link you mentioned in your last post was to a free assessment for people to test their knowledge and readiness for a music career. It was a free learning resource. There was nothing for sale on the page at all.

[Rocker_geek]

Paul Tauterouff wrote:

ZeGuitarist wrote:
By judging Rocker_geek because he simply looked at your profile, you're in fact discrediting him more than he ever discredited you - you act as if he's some kind of grudge-holding stalker. He's in fact a really nice guy, who is trying to defend what UG stands for.

I don't know the guy, all I could base my judgement on is the fact that he accused me of having a fake profile and also used profanity in his post. I don't hold a grudge or anything - I just felt personally insulted because he specifically used my name.

The link you mentioned in your last post was to a free assessment for people to test their knowledge and readiness for a music career. It was a free learning resource. There was nothing for sale on the page at all.

Ok I got a little bit excited here but....
1. Just having a profile picture doesn't make your profile legitimate.
2. I found you are(or using the name of) the co-manager of Tom Hess' MCMP.
3. You all Tom Hess followers are in reality the hired guns of Tom Hess and only use the account for rating his articles 10/10 and praising the almighty Tom Hess in the comments.
4.Your only friends are other Tom Hess followers and you all become active only after an Tom Hess article is posted.
5.Your "articles" are just useless ads praising, like I said. the almighty Tom Hess.

By looking at your profiles and googling you I'm even more convinced that you are a joke, my good sir, face it.
Btw, I Thank ZeG for defending me here while I was offline and blissfuly ignorant that I'm being flamed here.

[Paul Tauterouff]

Don't get too excited! I am a full time musician and teacher - that is no joke. Think about that tomorrow morning while I am sleeping in and you are getting up early to go and flip burgers. Some of my friends on UG are students of Tom, but some are not. Concerning my articles, I have two posted here. One is about having a mentor or teacher which does mention Tom because I have studied with him. The other, my Pentamodal article does not mention Tom anywhere in it and people seemed to find it helpful. That's all I have to say. I'm done with this thread.

[Jessa Young]

WOW, it sounds like the ULTIMATE GUITAR CULT has got it all figured out. I read the list posted by DISSONANTATION and you guys fit every criteria. I joined UG to meet other musicians but am no longer interested. I happen to be a teacher too and found it disgusting the way you railed on someone who's sharing helpful advice. He's not formally advertising himself, thus not breaking any rules. I'll find another site where more people actually use their intelligence. BTW, I am not a dude, and I was not hired nor asked by Tom Hess to post any comments here.

[Jessa Young]

O.K. we're all pissed off, and venting on a blog anonomously is easy but pretty fruitless. No one is going to win because we all think we're right. So...I'm going to put my point differently, as if I were a real person writing to real people which I am assuming we all are.
I write music and perform...and am always looking for ways to improve as a performer and composer, etc. What I don't get about you guys is why you don't want to consider a viewpoint that is not your own that might be helpful to you in your career? A bunch of you have gotten on this bandwagon, and now its like you've brandished all your swords and guns...what is the big deal? There is no one right way to do things...but there is nothing wrong with someone promoting their point of view either. I am self-taught on guitar, I have never had a single lesson...but I studied piano for many years. My friend taught herself how to sing in stairwells, I took years of lessons. I love her voice more than any other voice in the world. She didn't need lessons. But in order for me to grow as a singer, the lessons were really helpful. I now teach, and help people reach their potential.

[Jessa Young]

I think the real key here is to just listen to yourself and do what is right for you. Maybe someday you'll write an article on the 10 best tips you can give a self-taught artist and you'll make millions! I really hope so.

[Jessa Young]

WOW, it sounds like the ULTIMATE GUITAR CULT has got it all figured out. I read the list posted by DISSONANTATION and you guys fit every criteria. I joined UG to meet other musicians but am no longer interested. I happen to be a teacher too and found it disgusting the way you railed on someone who's sharing helpful advice. He's not formally advertising himself, thus not breaking any rules. I'll find another site where more people actually use their intelligence. BTW, I am not a dude, and I was not hired nor asked by Tom Hess to post any comments here.

[Jessa Young]

Jessa Young wrote:

WOW, it sounds like the ULTIMATE GUITAR CULT has got it all figured out. I read the list posted by DISSONANTATION and you guys fit every criteria. I joined UG to meet other musicians but am no longer interested. I happen to be a teacher too and found it disgusting the way you railed on someone who's sharing helpful advice. He's not formally advertising himself, thus not breaking any rules. I'll find another site where more people actually use their intelligence. BTW, I am not a dude, and I was not hired nor asked by Tom Hess to post any comments here.

[Jessa Young]

WOW, it sounds like the ULTIMATE GUITAR CULT has got it all figured out. I read the list posted by DISSONANTATION and you guys fit every criteria. I joined UG to meet other musicians but am no longer interested. I happen to be a teacher too and found it disgusting the way you railed on someone who's sharing helpful advice. He's not formally advertising himself, thus not breaking any rules. I'll find another site where more people actually use their intelligence. BTW, I am not a dude, and I was not hired nor asked by Tom Hess to post any comments here.

[ZeGuitarist]

^ Nice sextuple post you got there. Now don't do that again.

First of all, you people don't seem to understand the point I've made over and over again. Let me say it again...
TOM HESS IS ADVERTISING HIS WEBSITE, AND THIS IS NOT ALLOWED ON UG.

Paul Tauterouff wrote:

The link you mentioned in your last post was to a free assessment for people to test their knowledge and readiness for a music career. It was a free learning resource. There was nothing for sale on the page at all.

That isn't the point. It is a link to an external website. It is only there to recruit new members to that website. I'm not talking about the content of your article, or Hess' article - I'm talking about the fact that both of you are recruiting website members through links in articles. THAT SIMPLY IS NOT ALLOWED ON UG! And even though those links may lead to free articles, other content on the website has to be paid for... That makes this even more fishy and look like a scam.

Second of all:

Paul Tauterouff wrote:

Don't get too excited! I am a full time musician and teacher - that is no joke. Think about that tomorrow morning while I am sleeping in and you are getting up early to go and flip burgers. Some of my friends on UG are students of Tom, but some are not. Concerning my articles, I have two posted here. One is about having a mentor or teacher which does mention Tom because I have studied with him. The other, my Pentamodal article does not mention Tom anywhere in it and people seemed to find it helpful. That's all I have to say. I'm done with this thread.

You're still acting like a stuck-up prick, arrogant enough to diss a faithful UGer just because you think you're better than him for being a music teacher. Oh wow, you're a teacher, you have 2 articles on UG... I have 15, but that doesn't make me better than anyone. I'm saying this again, because you people seem to have trouble understanding a point if I only make it once. Also, leave Rocker_geek alone, or the admins will take action against you.

And finally, Jessa Young. You don't get the point either... Regardless of the content of Hess' article, THE LINKS TO HIS WEBSITE ARE ADVERTISING LINKS AND ARE THEREFORE NOT ALLOWED. There is nothing you can say or do to change that - Hess breaks UG rules, period. It's not about who's right and who's wrong here - it's about Hess breaking the rules, and us UGers not having it anymore.

[Colohue]

My God Jessa. Four of your messages are exactly the same. You even went to the trouble of quoting yourself, almost as if you were somebody else who was supposedly agreeing with you.

At this point I'm watching this column for comic value. The nonsense arguments being presented are simply laughable. You say that Tom Hess is not advertising himself in these articles. That, to everybody deluded enough to think it, is ridiculous. Have you even read it? Every link provided directs to 'tomhess.net,' that is a grand total of ten links.

After sixty-seven ratings, far more than any article since the first TyG, (that some of the people here rated low I might add) the rating is still oddly high considering the flavour of the comments. No other articles create such an angry and hostile atmosphere. Advertising or not, this sort of piece is not good for the website itself. We don't want people becoming so enraged. We like people to be happy and singing songs about flowers.

The long and short of it is simple. It's too late, Tom Hess is in trouble and he's not going to be bailed out of it. Still, I'm sure there are other places he can go. Maybe he'll learn from his mistakes here and advertise himself less.

Here's to hoping.

[Rocker_geek]

^^^ exactly, This is hilarious

[ZeGuitarist]

The way some Hess followers are reacting - calling others only good enough to "flip burgers in the morning", giving settled UG columnists low ratings on their work, and generally refusing to see that Hess breaks UG rules - is not only ridiculously funny, but it creates a very hostile atmosphere... which puts Hess in even deeper trouble than he is already.

[Rocker_geek]

lol@ "flip burgers in the mornin"
You don't know me mate. I'm a software engneering student and I don't know about your income Paul, but I assure you don't go advertising myself and how great I am in online forums.

And for information, no, I don't flip burgers in the morning. ROFL

[quazitron]

Paul Tauterouff wrote:
Think about that tomorrow morning while I am sleeping in and you are getting up early to go and flip burgers.

Oh good shot! Well done! You have just done more to discredit yourself, and show yourself as an infantile moron than any other post in this thread.

Personal attacks such as this, that in actual fact have zero basis, are the perfect way to show the entire world (literally) what kind of 'professional' musician and teacher you are.

I hope you enjoy the business you lose from showing your true colours, so publically, Paul Tauterouff. What an eminent profressional you are.

[Paul Tauterouff]

ZEG, You seem to be missing the point. Rocker_geek said negative (and untrue) things about me first. He also used profanity which I'm sure is against UG's rules. Then he got personal by calling me a joke and that is why I made the personal comment I did (in anger). I apologize for it.

Go back and read my posts. Other than my first post, every single post I have made has been a response to something said about me. If anyone is being harrased here it is me! I did not come here to fight, I am just defending myself. We can all agree to disagree, so stop your attacks against me. I am done with this thread.

[Colohue]

I think calling this column closed is the best idea right now. Everybody should calm down and go about their own business. At this point it's nothing but arguments, which is not conducive or in any way helpful. In fact, the CCs have plenty enough reason to get involved here.

I advise everybody to look after themselves and stop commenting. Thanks in advance.

[SlayingDragons]

Hmmm... Am I the only one that notices that this entire argument was started by tom's advertising? and that this article is totally pointless, and NO article should cause such hatred on UG. But, I do find it wierd that all the peeps the rated or commented good used their full name. Is this article closed yet? (this'll probly be the last comment here...)

[G-longatedToby]

Ive just realised I fall into the show me something new category, too bad the basics are so boring huh

[Minion2580]

i didnt learn shit from guitar lessons, they are just a waste of money