What's So Bad About Shredding

When the 90's came around with its Seattle-sounding wave of "grunge" bands, I was already a big fan of music, and not the big hair and lipstick variety I saw infesting MTV. Like those proponents of the Grunge and Alternative styles, I too realized that the bazillion glam bands parading in drag in videos featuring at least five megatons of pyrotechnic explosives were headed for oblivion, but why did guitar ability have to follow suit?

It seemed to me, having been obsessed with the likes of Slayer, Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera, Randy Rhoads, Death, etc., that the problem was not guitar nor especially knowing how to play one. The problem was often talented musicians taking the easy way out and signing record deals to join the throng of regurgitated rejects polluting the airwaves with pointless love ballads.

My attitude at the time was "**** Grunge!" and I was delighted at the image of Kurt Cobain's splattered skull on the inside sleeve of Slayer's Divine Intervention album. I cheered as band after band succomed to the inevitable demise of their lead singers and all the while my favorite metal bands were still kicking major ass (except for Metallica who were on serious probation at the time).

But then I realized that every time I went to jam with anybody I inevitably found myself plodding along to another C-G-D rhythm, suffering through the boring old arrangements and tiresome chord progressions because knowing how to play was not "cool." In fact, having an inkling of ability at my instrument meant that I was a relic of the past, stuck in the 80's corporate glam factory with the likes of White Snake or (insert your favorite hair band here)

...and there are some decent ones.

I found it quite distressing that knowing how to play was somehow a bad thing, and even more, NOT knowing how to play was somehow a good thing. Uh...okay?

How many times have you heard this excuse: "I don't learn the scales and chords because I feel it would affect the way I play!"

There is no excuse for sloppiness, and though it may have been trendy for a while being a bad player is not the way to succeed. Unfortunately, though, the world of guitar is far too full of players who just dink around and call it music.

But here's the plain and simple truth - taking a lesson will not ruin your "art." Sure, it will change the way you play, but for the better. Coming to this website is a step in the right direction, but look beyond that tab you're interested in. Read some of the lessons, too.

And if you like alternative music, Grunge or whatever - great. But consider Candlebox or Alice in Chains, where would they be without their guitars? Smashing Pumpkins have some brilliant stuff. You can write high quality rock 'n roll and actually know how to play your instrument!

Don't fall into the laziness trap. You don't have to sound like Joe Satriani to be a good player, but don't be afraid of learning how. Learning to shred, or even learning to play semi-proficiently is not going to consume your soul or compromise your precious creativity. In fact, having a little bit of skill might just set you apart from the crowd. It might even get you the gig.

Let someone else be the lazy one!

Comments

[rush4life]

I wish I wasn't so lazy... Pretty good, I totally agree!

[Robert_Terry]

Whilst i agree with lots of this artical, especialy the knowing how to play the guitar. All people should try and better them selfs on the guitar at all times

But as for the bit about liking seeing kurt cobains skull in an album sleve...fu*king weak man. Im not for one minuet saying i like him, but he still has family. And no one deserves to see there father/brother/son Etc being mocked. He might not have cared too much about his life, but in that case it is better to forget about him. Not mock him.

Slayer, great musicains...arseholes otherwise

[Stagger Lee]

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10

[Chris Freeman]

this article is all too true of music nowadays. very few bands have guitarists with any ability yet they say their influences are bands from the 80's who did nothing but shred. great article. 9/10

[deadhead0661]

thank you! all that was very true. Most new music stinks because people are too focused on glam and can't even play. For instance: Green Day, Fall Out Boy and all that other crap.I Hate all of it. Thanks for writing that, some one had to

[munit]

yeah pretty good article...i can definitly relate and say that at times that ive been very fed up with all the nirvana soundind grunge music. as far as kurt i still believe that he was murdered, not suicide, but none-the-less he was very very overrated. people refer to him as one of the greatest guitarists of all time which just isnt true, i am a strong believer that i am a better guitarist than him, or at least than he showed in his music, and that there are thousands of guitarists that could claim the same thing. as for the music itsself i do miss shredding and solos in it but i believe that the grunge/alternative sound had its positives and fit the time very well, as a state of heavy drug use and depression was starting to make its way back up from the 70's. all things considered i believe that the 90's can be considered a downfall for metal, but an uprise for many new breeds of music that have made their way onto the charts today.

[BrokenWingman]

This is how I stand as far as music goes as well. For the most part. I have met a guitarist in my distant family who was completely self taught and I got to listen to him, and wow, blue my mind, probably one of the best i've heard in a long time. And he's never had any kind of lesson, I don't even know if he knew what scales or chords he was playing, but it was amazing.

I'm also self taught, but I know the chords i'm playing, and if I don't, I find out. I know the scales I play too. It's definetly helped with my playing, by learning new scales I've been able to branch out in my lead work. I'd recommend people know their chords (not just power chords.) and scales. It makes you more equipped to play with groups of people.

[R0e]

I agree with Deadhead and this article. However, it takes some skill to create a catchy tune with only 3 chords. Try it for a change. I know most of my chords, but I dunno how to incorporate shredding into my playing. I mean I don't have the speed as it is yet, but seeing Jimmy Page do that 4 minute solo in Stairway To Heaven live is enough to get me inspired.
Oh btw, i'm new here, just registered about 5 minutes ago to post here.

[ukdudeinuk]

I really wish I wasnt so lazy. This is awesome. If only I could be continuously inspired instead of random day or 2 bursts of inspiration....

[Metalology]

R0e wrote:

I agree with Deadhead and this article. However, it takes some skill to create a catchy tune with only 3 chords. Try it for a change. I know most of my chords, but I dunno how to incorporate shredding into my playing. I mean I don't have the speed as it is yet, but seeing Jimmy Page do that 4 minute solo in Stairway To Heaven live is enough to get me inspired.
Oh btw, i'm new here, just registered about 5 minutes ago to post here.

Welcome to UG.

Good job, Bubonic. I totaly agree with you about scales affecting the way we play. It only makes us better and helps us to express what's inside our heads.

[chase09]

Stagger Lee wrote:

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10

If you honestly think shred is just playing random notes as fast as you can, then you my friend, are sadly misinformed (as is most of the guitar community, including UG). Shred is NOT, I repeat, NOT about playing random notes as fast as you can. Nor do we judge "good shredders" from "bad shredders" based on how fast they play. As Guthrie Govan has said, at its best 'shred' is a way for guitarists to express themselves without needing to worry about technical limitations. At its worst, it is a competitive sport for those with no musical identity. The reason shred gets such a bad reputation is because of the people who are just trying to play as fast as they can, while not really creating a very melodic composition. Guys like Chris Impelliteri, Michael Angelo Batio, and Francesco Fareri are, IMHO, more about just showing off technically than about creating melodic music. Guys like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani hardly ever 'shred' as most of you guys would put it. Sure they may use fast licks every now and then, but these guys are just out there to make great music, and they sure as hell are amazing at creating emotional pieces of music. John Petrucci, Paul Gilbert, Shawn Lane, Jason Becker, and Michael Romeo often play fast (this is what you guys dub 'shred') but they aren't just playing scales or random notes really fast, these guys are playing licks or phrases that they have come up with, or are using arpeggios, then link them together to create solos/songs. They also know how to play slow and emotional, and don't just all out shred. They know how to build up to a climax with slower stuff, and then just let it explode over the top and make you tingle all over with emotion. These guys often tend to know TONS of music theory and they can create really melodic and emotional pieces of music. Slow, fast, or combined.

I would also like to point out that the people in the shred forum don't listen to shred exclusively. We don't mind listening to slow things, in fact, they are often beautiful. Melodic music, whether it be on guitar or not (piano for example), is what we like the most. I would also have to say that maybe except for some blues/jazz and acoustic guitarists, 'shredders' have a taste for the most melodic music and are not just mindless machines trying to be the fastest guitarist without any inkling of creating true music.

/rant

Many people on UG say that virtuosos are just 'mindless shredders' when truly, the people in the shred forum are into the more melodic shredders.

[chase09]

also, i have had a shred song stuck in my head before. it was the main arpeggio licks in Rusty Cooley's 'Under the Influence'

[metal4all]

^thank you for telling them before i did. and this was a good article. (besides the whole kurt cobain skull thing)

[Craigo]

This is a brillant piece of work... Not the best to persuade... But a fantastic piece of effort.

Eight Stars. Feel proud that you've made a difference.

[Abe]

I don't think it matters either way.

"Unfortunately, though, the world of guitar is far too full of players who just dink around and call it music. "

I don't see why this is unfortunate, if they're enjoying it, then who is anyone to say there's too many.

Likewise, even if the mainstream was full of shredders, as long as theyre enjoying it then it's not my place to tell them they shouldn't be doing it.

Decent enough article, some points I agree on, ome I don't but thats expected.

****

[Abe]

Oh, it's out of 10 now.

7

[psykopoo]

Man you are a sick bastard. "I was delighted at the image of Kurt Cobain's splattered skull on the inside sleeve of Slayer's Divine Intervention album." Theres just something wrong about that, Kurt Cobain was great, he may not have been a technically brilliant player but i think (being an out and out metal fan myself) that his songs were utterly brilliant and some of the best stuff released during the 90's, and I feel you have entirely the wrong attitude toward music

[SURFraptor7]

Although shredding can sound good sometimes, it can become bland and pointless after a while. Good guitarists can shred, but it takes a truly talented player to slow it down and feel through each note.

I used to think shredding all the time was cool, but after a while, it gets boring and your solos all sound the same. Composing an interesting or catchy riff that isnt played at 20 million notes per second takes far more talent.

Check out some Santana or Clapton or David Gilmore and see what I'm talking about...

[Malakian=God]

Nice to see some one who shares my opinion. Also this article had very little to do with shred

[yawn]

Not knowing how to play was never "cool".

[watchurback]

very very true article. Not saying that anyone has to like any type of music we've all got our own style, but saying shred is random notes is a little disrespectful to the guitarist who play and practice hard to master an art form no?

[Noosie]

I dont like Cobain at all but thats just awful to be thrilled at somebodies death.... on a lighter note shred although not my favorite type of music is almost always very harmonious and always has tons of theory behind it. most the time i noticed that shredders tend to use the "Harmonic minor scale" which is probably my 3rd fav scale(next to Melodic minor and Mixolydian) i simply marval at the fact that these people can play as fast as they do and still keep it so emotional and make you want more.

I would totally agree that todays guitarists know absolutly nothing about music theory at all except for a few exceptions like Mike Einzberg ( or however the hell you spell it) from Incubus hes actually a stunning guitarists.

[blade_shredder]

i agree with what most you guys are saying, and although i like nirvana for their '' sound'' not for their music you could say. Cobain was an excellent musician dont get me wrong he wrote lots of great songs and none of his songs sound the same. he wasnt the problem, it was all the mindless retards that came after him. i mean come on all the garbage out nowadays, green day, fall out boy, good charlotte all that crap is just that... crap. one day on a bet i learned 5 green day songs in an hour and a half, come one you guys and its all the same. now about shred, yes some times its played at a bazillion miles an hour, so what some times its also played so and melodically and you need to realize their fast stuff is equally melodic, just much much faster. slow down any piece of shred and even completely untrained ears will find it beautiful, especially neoclassical. and as some one already stated most of us shredders listen to lots of slow stuff and most of us have a much mucb broader range of music. i mean i shred and i listen to everything accept for like some country. i even listen to a little of that. i think the point of this article is to just drop the 5th chord, their good but play some other intervals try minor thirds or even... gasp.. actual chords?! and who ever said being an unskilled guitarist wasnt cool is way wrong. my friend cant play worth crap but when he picks up his les paul, plugs it into his marshall cranks some distortion and plays a few 5th chords and some green day every one swoons and falls in love with it. but when he plays a few e minors and i shred over it, people practically faint. which reaction do you like better?

[its_sublime07]

wow, this was just a rant, i dont see how this is a column with any useful information in it. All you even did was bitch about how you dont like untalented music. Looks like its time to broaden your horizens. Me myself, i wouldnt say im a fan of shredding, but i wouldnt say im not. I think im just a fan of interesting music and killer melodies. cobain wasnt all that bad, I used to love the guy, and some of his stuff is pretty ****in cool. Slayer isnt really my cup of tea, but metallica is awesome, especially the black album. Well I'd say im done ranting about this pointless rant.

[GuitaPlaya]

You made good points but you're just venting steam.

[makeitcrynsing]

SURFraptor7 wrote:

Check out some Santana or Clapton or David Gilmour and see what I'm talking about...

I second that. Very soulful with emotion. Shredding maybe be technically impressive but how many people can get lost and just escape the world listening to it? How many people can get it stuck in their head all day and like it just the same twenty years from then?

[beau05]

it's alright for you(writer of article), i was born lazy. i was 3 weeks overdue so i will always be late, for everything

[Diceman42]

Stagger Lee wrote:

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10

Actually me, and the song is "Deja Vu."

[eastern_riffs]

Yes,I agree to that too.But its always a good thing to know how to do it.Thats why I'm practicing hard each day how to shred,though I know fully well that music that would rouse me at the end of the day would be much slower,melodious stuff.

Or ofcourse,there are guitarists like Shawn Lane and Jason Becker that I enjoy listening to.They're fast but they aren't shredders.

Good article,should get around 8/10 from me.

[TwistedLogic]

Semi useless for the first 75% of the piece, as it did not adequately address the titles subject. You could have used the last paragraph as a base and expanded on the myth of souless shredders compared to the theory challanged grunge players, learnging proper techique and theory, and still being a create artist / guitar player.

[buckethead101]

a thumbs-up article.~!!!!

[codybcool]

Good article, but my one qualm is that you make it sound as if it's easy to shred and it's possible after a few lessons. Quite to the contrary, it takes a hell of a long time to be able to play proficiently and i myself am only really starting to come into my own. Good article otherwise though.

[ArcherTheVMan]

Stagger Lee wrote:

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10

although to an extent i agree with you, they dont 'fire off random notes' thats just slayer. people like yngwie malmsteen and herman li Always play in key you would barely ever if at all here any knowledgable experienced guitar player -shredder or not- play a single note out of key.

[sam i am]

if i was going to learn to shred, i would do it not so that i couls shred, just so that if i dont ever feel held by back by he fact i cant play fast enough, so i could express my feeling properly.

"shredders" like vai and satriani never jus play random note. this vai performance is brilliant -
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=878905819
3112427621&q=vai
very emotional. if anyone knows which song it is i'd be very grateful, i dont if it's his or...??

[deadhead0661]

I hear people talking about shredding vs. blues based, soulfull solos. I think the writer was just trying to say to have a little skill in there instead of just jumping around with a guitar in your hands. It is true that shredding is technically impressive and fun to play and all that stuff, but it isn't as artistic(if all of it is just diminished runs and arpeggios). Don't get me wrong I like Yngwie and his music and all the classical stuff, but I wouldn't want that for my playing. Like I would love to be able to play like that, but I wouldn't want all my songs to be like that, if you get what I'm saying. People should give more effort in their sound and playing style than their looks. I like a musician for their sound, not how their style is otside of the music. Don't be lazy and just focus on your looks and not playing, but don't just all out shred. Find a middle ground.

[Necronomicon]

Im self taught and I love shredding except I know its limits, you gotta have it mixed in with slow notes if its to have an effect. The problem with music nowadays is not that there's no one with guitar talent out there, its that no one listens to them. They're not put on tv or radio and not in the mainstream so they dont get much acclaim. It seems only real guitarists know about other real guitarists as opposed to all the punk band 3 chord songs that are in the mainstream right now.

[TheEndHasNoEnd]

That bit about Kurt Cobain....it wrecked the whol article for me. It truly did sicken me. Other than that, it was decent, I'd give it a 6 out of 10, you made some good points.

[TheEndHasNoEnd]

*Sorry, I meant to say whole, not whol.

[ss311]

TheEndHasNoEnd wrote:

That bit about Kurt Cobain....it wrecked the whol article for me. It truly did sicken me. Other than that, it was decent, I'd give it a 6 out of 10, you made some good points.

[ac/guns n zep]

pretty good article but not much new information, but it was written well. Its the same old todays music has no instrumental talent, that every musician knows. and you didnt really talk about shredding at all.

Btw sam i am, the song is called tender surrender.

[Slashfan_666]

there was this vid of this chinese or japanese dude palying canon in d major. it was beautiful and it did get stuck in my head. even my dad (who is a alt nutter) liked it.

[Slashfan_666]

(an alt nutter)liked it. I still don't see why people just send shred into the bottom of hell, for example: most classical stuff sounds great when played on guitar,and that is shred, and i don't see anybody bashing bach for writing that.
and that kurt thing is a bit overdone, chronic.

[smb]

All this guy really says is "I like this and I do this. Listen to this and do this and be like me."

Maybe we don't all like '80s stuff and maybe some of us like to play the way we want.

[patduganz]

Maybe "shredders" do know how toplay their instruments, but their sound is repetitive and boring. I think it's amazing that they cna play so fast, but it isn't any fun to listen to.

Grunge (the sloppy name put on the so-called "Seatlle Punk Sound") was meant to embody the asthetic that music does not have to be complex and full of solos to be good.

Sorry, but your point that bands like that weren't talented is just wrong. They could, just not like your oh-so amazing Pantera.

[whitebluesboy]

Stagger Lee wrote:

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10

I've had Black Star stuck in my head since the day I heard it a couple years ago. And as for people who say that shred is repetive and doesn't have any soul into it I enlighten you to check out Mark Tremonti. That man has made some of the catchiest or mainstream riffs or whatever you call it of all time but at the same time the man still practices 7 hours a day and is an amazing virtuoso guitarist. Eat it

[NevermorePsalm]

Stagger Lee wrote:

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10

Random notes isnt shred, its Slayer. Guthrie Govan, Shawn Lane, Stanley Jordan, Jason Becker, Marty Friedman, Dimebag, they are all stuck in my head, and I'm never letting them out.

Ok article, really had nothing to do with shred though.

[NevermorePsalm]

ArcherTheVMan wrote:

Stagger Lee wrote:

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10


although to an extent i agree with you, they dont 'fire off random notes' thats just slayer. people like yngwie malmsteen and herman li Always play in key you would barely ever if at all here any knowledgable experienced guitar player -shredder or not- play a single note out of key.

OH, youll hear them go out of key, but in a good way. (sorry bout the double post)

[gunsnzeppelin09]

Good article. I found it pretty funny in this last months issue of guitar world when they interviewed Hawthorne heights(i hate punk) and the guitarist rote a riff in 3/4 without even knowing it. I just hate how a band like fall out boy can come up with two or three power chords and some crappy lyrics about how their life sucks and have it sell millions to the average listener around the world. Kurk Cobain pretty much led the revolution of showing that you don't need to be beethoven to succeed in the music industry and sadly popular bands with good musicians disappeared. As far as shred being good music, I'm not sure what to say because I enjoy anything with a good guitarist because i play guitar and I love hearing it, but 3 years ago when I was negligent of music and what actually takes skill, I prolly would have just changed the station if the solo to metallica's one came on. Thats the real problem with the music industry, the average listener now a days has no appreciation for actual talent.

[rattlehead999]

gunsnzeppelin09 wrote:

Good article. I found it pretty funny in this last months issue of guitar world when they interviewed Hawthorne heights(i hate punk) and the guitarist rote a riff in 3/4 without even knowing it. I just hate how a band like fall out boy can come up with two or three power chords and some crappy lyrics about how their life sucks and have it sell millions to the average listener around the world. Kurk Cobain pretty much led the revolution of showing that you don't need to be beethoven to succeed in the music industry and sadly popular bands with good musicians disappeared. As far as shred being good music, I'm not sure what to say because I enjoy anything with a good guitarist because i play guitar and I love hearing it, but 3 years ago when I was negligent of music and what actually takes skill, I prolly would have just changed the station if the solo to metallica's one came on. Thats the real problem with the music industry, the average listener now a days has no appreciation for actual talent.

amen. and great article too.

[Wolfsreign]

My conscience is hurting my ear

[virtuosox86]

i got a yngwie song stuck in my head RIGHT NOW BIAA!! LIALLLLL

[genresrforposer]

hmm.... well i disagree completely. i used to sit n listen to mop or kill em all or n b amazed at tha technical skill.

but the song gets old w/o emotion.

johnny cash, rolling stones, green day, nirvana,

[genresrforposer]

i take that back those albums had emotion but the bands like blink 182, fallout boy, and green day constantly getting flamed here have never been hailed as great guitar players.

they have never called themselves great guitar players.

they and everyone else who actually listens to them refer to them with the talent they have which enables them to get away with such simple guitar players:

they are SONGWRITERS, first and foremost.

the guitar is their songwriting tool, NOT the instrument they mastered.

the guitar of course is an ideal instrument for songwriting as it is very easy to build a song around just vocals and guitar parts if u have a plan for the song u want to create.(save for those poor drummers who no matter what song theyre playing have to b focused and control 6 things at once then get tha least groupies and be in tha back for concerts. my hat is always off to them as they clearly have the most passion of any rock band to love what they do enuff to accept that treatment)

metallica n led zeppelin are 2 bands i assume people like on this site(and gnr but ive never been a fan of them) and they HAVE technical skill. wat brought them to be such household names though? their songwriting ability. sure those solos in stairway to heaven n one are some key elements to the songs but we like even the less complicated parts we can all play and that are heard throughout most of those songs sometimes even better b/c the softer beginings and simple main riffs are the meat of those songs and wat give them their emotional value.

what i'm saying is if u have great guitar skill that's a great thing.

but you can't deny that to write a catchy song u must have talent

case in point: songwriting will always be the first and foremost needed skill to write a good song. until shredders n such learn to write songs rather than simply playing guitar well, this wave of fallout boys aint ending.

however, shld technically skilled players like led zeppelin and metallica who also know how to write songs come about the people on this site might actually have enough fire power to silence those bands.

no disrespect, but if you truly wish to bring back technically advanced playing to tha radio, you must learn to write songs as well.

this may not sound like it but this really is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. im pullin for u technically advanced guys.

but until then songwriters and not technically skilled guitarists will be the mainmen of the music industry.

[Resiliance]

makeitcrynsing wrote:

SURFraptor7 wrote:

Check out some Santana or Clapton or David Gilmour and see what I'm talking about...


I second that. Very soulful with emotion. Shredding maybe be technically impressive but how many people can get lost and just escape the world listening to it? How many people can get it stuck in their head all day and like it just the same twenty years from then?

Want to bet? Know what something is before you bash it.

[huge-o]

dude i disagree with you, being good at guitar isnt all about goin through all the scales in 3 seconds. its not the difficulty of playin the song that makes it good, its how its sounds. you have to put urself in the shoes of someone that does not know how to play guitar yet know about music. all nirvana songs were all novice difficulty they, for the most part, were all very well done thus their popularity. dont mix musical talent with physical talent.

[wat???]

How many times have you heard this excuse: "I don't learn the scales and chords because I feel it would affect the way I play!"

I've never heard that before.

[Ampeg J]

At the risk of sounding like a fossil...
I rather liked some of the so-called "Hair bands".

Dokken comes to mind right away. George Lynch is a hella guitarist, Don Dokken can sing most people into a paper sack, and the rythem section is rock solid.

I suppose Glam Rocks exesses were self-destructive in the fianl analysis, but some great tunes come out that genre.

Not to mention the fact that I like to see a SHOW when i pay the big bucks to see a band.

If i just want to see competent players in blue jeans and leather jackets, I'll go to a bar. B)

[deadhead0661]

gunsnzeppelin09 wrote:

Good article. I found it pretty funny in this last months issue of guitar world when they interviewed Hawthorne heights(i hate punk) and the guitarist rote a riff in 3/4 without even knowing it. I just hate how a band like fall out boy can come up with two or three power chords and some crappy lyrics about how their life sucks and have it sell millions to the average listener around the world. Kurk Cobain pretty much led the revolution of showing that you don't need to be beethoven to succeed in the music industry and sadly popular bands with good musicians disappeared. As far as shred being good music, I'm not sure what to say because I enjoy anything with a good guitarist because i play guitar and I love hearing it, but 3 years ago when I was negligent of music and what actually takes skill, I prolly would have just changed the station if the solo to metallica's one came on. Thats the real problem with the music industry, the average listener now a days has no appreciation for actual talent.

All very true!Thank you. BTW,Zep Rules

[wingedgopher]

this article is crap. the guy obviously just doesnt get it. its not that proficient guitar playing is uncool so much as it often doesnt sound good. you can play crazy solos but make sure they sound good. thats why so many of the bands he listed as ones he love suck. and that album cover is just distasteful.

[Gman400]

I don't know what the big deal is about the Kobain thing is. If you like him that's cool I respect the guy but camon, it's not like he's your dad. Of course that was a pretty trashy thing but I don't think getting all emotional and hissyfit about it is gonna make "his family" and such feel any better.

Anyway, I agree with many points to a degree here, but one thing I don't like hearing is people dismissing all shred as being "mindless and boring with no emotion." Sure some of it is, but if you really listen to most of it and pay attention there's lots of melody and beautiful progressions. Guys like Jason becker and such also slow it down and make it very soulful, and even when they start going lightening speed the aura from the guitar is amazing and very exciting.

So yeah, being technically proficiant isn't always NECESSARY to become a great musician but if certaintly helps you write interesting songs and express yourself in the way you want. Songwriting itself though is just as important. I think you need a good combo of each, to keep the listener on his feet (or ears) and to keep him interested and coming back for more.

[Baroque_and_Rol]

Stagger Lee wrote:
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Every Friggin day

[Baroque_and_Rol]

makeitcrynsing wrote:

SURFraptor7 wrote:

Check out some Santana or Clapton or David Gilmour and see what I'm talking about...


I second that. Very soulful with emotion. Shredding maybe be technically impressive but how many people can get lost and just escape the world listening to it? How many people can get it stuck in their head all day and like it just the same twenty years from then?

again every day

[matterrr]

I just find shred kind of cheesy and tacky. I also think electric guitar doesn't make a great classical instrument, mainly because most instruments in a traditional symphony orchestra have the ability to blend with eachother, but the electric guitar doesn't have that ability - It has to be the solo instrument. Most of these "virtuoso" guitarists I see come off to me as a bit egotistic and selfish.

[Faggio]

How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Very often.

[thornhill32]

whitebluesboy wrote:

...And as for people who say that shred is repetive and doesn't have any soul into it I enlighten you to check out Mark Tremonti. That man has made some of the catchiest or mainstream riffs or whatever you call it of all time but at the same time the man still practices 7 hours a day and is an amazing virtuoso guitarist.

I agree 100 percent with this... and the funny thing is that you don't hear much about Mark Tremonti. He definantely works his ass off, and it SHOWS. I think he is one of the greats. ...and about shredding, check out his newest CD (with Alter Bridge, One Day Remains), you'll change your mind about shredding being any random note played really fast. It's unbelievable.

[lespaul_rentals]

some shredders are mindless, true. but shredding takes skill. just like blues takes skill.

so why are bands like Green Day taking the stage of mainstream music? why did Nirvana take off? because they know how to write good music. they're talented not at playing an awesome solo, but rather combining lyrics and music to create a terrific song.

the comment about kurt cobains skull pissed me off...really...how inconsiderate of you.

[killswitchjd]

This article is not very politically correct.... while I rarely am I think all types of music can be taken for what they are- david gray's guitarist does not have to shred, or have alot of talent for that matter, but lots of people still like it. Some music is not about the guitar, and some people don't realize that. Im not saying that bands nowadays are good in my opinion but they are still music, and music is expression. Who are you to attack someone else's expression? I love a guitar virtuoso as much as the next guy but I like Nirvana too.

[genresrforposer]

wingedgopher wrote:

this article is crap. the guy obviously just doesnt get it. its not that proficient guitar playing is uncool so much as it often doesnt sound good. you can play crazy solos but make sure they sound good. thats why so many of the bands he listed as ones he love suck. and that album cover is just distasteful.

exactly. thank you.

[InVicTus]

certain new music are just plain gay.. take simple plan for example.. they're just whiners.. they do have some good tunes there, but most of it are plain gay. green day is ok.. very distinctive sound of their own, but not many points in techniques.. still sounds good tho. then.. look at players like tremonti and morrelo..dun dun do much of those crazy solos, but they are really strong in techniques.. it's obvious in their music..rage against the machines, creed, alter bridge, audioslave. these are the really good alternative bands.. and speakin of alts.. theres coldplay. they dun do guitar that much but the piano playin by martin just carried the song so well(minus the -kick- tho)
then, we have slash. tho the VR's music aint that much of technical value compared to GnR's, but the feel he put into everysong with his solos.. arent they just great?? who'd forget the solo and the shred in 'sweet child o' mine'?
then.. virtuosos like satriani, his style.. slow, speed up, shred, then the ultimate finisher. wonderful.
yngwie. plain speed. and accuracy. if u listen carefully, u'll definitely get it into ur head.and he IS a GREAT player.
steve vai.what more can i say? his name says it all!
so ppl, keep shreddin!!it's the way of expression, the emotions, the feel!! not some mumbo-jumbo like most ppl think. shred shred shred! like a shreddin machine from hell!

[Gman400]

^Is this guy serious? First of all, next to metal classical is my fav genere which is exactly the reason why i like a lot of shredding like Yngwie and such (of course metal doesn't HAVE to have classical influences in it for me to like it but it's always cool.)

And why don't you try and use at least a bit of grammar buddy? I mean....i think I know what he's trying to say...but he praises technicality then bashes classical??? wtf...

[rockinlewis]

i think this article was shit. its just an excuse to bash Kurt Cobain. i dont get what your trying to say when you say "there is no excuse for sloppiness". pardon me but since when did the guitar HAVE to be played perfectly? when was it that every player had to try and aspire to play faster and more boringly than the last guy? guitar is a way of expressing yourself, if people WANT to play sloppilly then who are you to tell them otherwise? what is it to ANYONE how someone else expresses themselves?

get a grip man

[Riffmast]

How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head

Alot actualy, Rising Force has some wicked melodies!!

For the whole shredding against being un technical. I think that you don't have to shred to be good lost of godo bands don;t have it like Opeth and Lamb Of God. But a good guitarist should have the skill to be able to shred. Realisticly the best guiatarist would be the one who can do anything anyone else can and more.
And hell shred sounds awesome and is impressive. So i say i liek it more then your standard boring chord powerchords of simple plan and the like.

[Riffmast]

People who bash technical playing=people who can't play techical so just make excuses to why it's bad. Anyone who can really play knows that you can combine emotion and good songwriting with techinicality. Nirvana,Blink 182 and Greenday did not write GOOD songs. They wrote standard teeny booper verse chorus structured rubbish.While their doing that good TECHNICAL players such as Vai,malmsteen and many progressive and metal bands have realeased amazeing records. Just because a band is popular does'nt make them talented !

[Doc Turtle]

Not a bad article. Like some of the others said, it was a bit of a rant, but it was still decent. I agree with you that it never hurts to learn chords and scales...I myself don't know any scales, but I love messing around with chords and I find that it helps you create new music, not just the 3-4 riff power chords. Anyone can do that. But at the same time, they are simple and catchy. Normally only musicians will appreciate the work people put into playing instrument and how they play, while most people will hear that song and never really hear what is being played. They don't hear the upstroke or be able to tell if some one is sliding from 3-5 or tapping 3-4-5. There is nothing wrong with...argh..now I'm ranting...ok...that'll do pig, that'll do..

[Strange Reality]

i liked it and thought that it was true.. he did seem a litle harsh on grunge..
but i don't care cause i hate it too

[sixx66]

Cock rock (ie hair metal or "glam rock") is awsome!! I'd rather hit sunset strip in 1981 with motley crue than go to my friends basement and cry about my girlfriend cheating on me taking back sunday. who wouldnt? anyway im a big fan of technical guitarists like al di meola, yngwie, satch, vai, friedman, etc. Cobain could write a kick ass song that you sang along to for days, and GNR could write a song that grabbed you by the balls too, so who cares, good tunes is good tunes.

[cap'nkirk]

Let's be fair though, just because one shreds doesn't mean anything really. Yngwie shreds and everything he does sounds the same to me. Being open minded music will always be more exciting than songs with a lot of notes. I enjoy a good shred, but I also enjoy a good sloppy guitar part, it's all in how it moves the listener. To compare Nirvana to Metallica or Slayer is like comparing a dog to an apple. It makes no sense. It's always seemed to me that the shredders of the 80s were just pissed because they weren't in the focus anymore. The cream rose of the bands survived though. It's not like Slayer was a big MTV staple before Nirvana. They sold to the same people they always have. Metallica sold more records in 91-92 then they had in all of the 80s. The bands that got laid to waste were crap bands like Poison. I don't think any self respecting rocker minded that much. Also, it's not like the Seattle scene didn't have their rockers. Listen to Soundgarden, listen to Alice in Chains or the Melvins. Not quite metal, not shred, but they did rock.

Also, If you took any sort of pleasure from the death of anyone person, you're really a sick f*ck.

[cap'nkirk]

Besides, who cares what's cool. Play the way you want to play and the honesty will bring people in more than what's cool. That's how movements start.

[WiKiD]

The problem was often talented musicians taking the easy way out and signing record deals to join the throng of regurgitated rejects polluting the airwaves with pointless love ballads.

When will people realize it's not SELLING OUT, its called being a good enough band to get signed. Being a song writer myself, i couldn't give a crap what i write about, so long as it sounds good

[Gman400]

Yeah it's not selling out it's just changing your music and your image to appeal to the masses of little girls and whiny boys struggling through their pre-pubescent stage that's all.

Ok that was a little rough. My definition of selling out is when a band changes their style or goes against their ideals to appeal to a record label and make money. However, it's not like every band on a major label sucks. It's just the cookie cutter ones that aren't doing what they really want, but rather what a certain group of people really want to see them doing (which tends to suck.)

[arghhimapirate]

rockinlewis wrote:

i think this article was shit. its just an excuse to bash Kurt Cobain. i dont get what your trying to say when you say "there is no excuse for sloppiness". pardon me but since when did the guitar HAVE to be played perfectly? when was it that every player had to try and aspire to play faster and more boringly than the last guy? guitar is a way of expressing yourself, if people WANT to play sloppilly then who are you to tell them otherwise? what is it to ANYONE how someone else expresses themselves?

get a grip man

I agree, sometimes playing sloppily sounds better than playing perfectly, and perfection could kill the song, as long as it sounds good, and you like it, isn't that the most important thing?

[lazyskaterlump]

Gman400 :
Yeah it's not selling out it's just changing your music and your image to appeal to the masses of little girls and whiny boys struggling through their pre-pubescent stage that's all.

if you want to make money in music and that is the only way you wouldnt? The whole music scene can force you into doing something you dont want to do so you can open a new door to do whatever you want. And why is it that whenever anyone talks about confomity they always hint at emo? most of the emo bands are really good musically anyway

[HelpMeImHungry]

Im a fan of nirvana, but I enjoy learning shred techniques, its a technical art form. being really good at guitar is cool

*spam check

[sixx66]

The bands that got laid to waste were crap bands like Poison.

CapnKirk will be unhappy to learn that the crap bands like poison that were laid to waste still tour and do sold out shows (apparently more in europe) I know that cinderella is going on tour this summer, thats sweet, but capnkirk makes a good point about comparing metal to grunge like an apple to a dog, thats classic

[nirvallica]

You're hypicritical... You say that good guitaring became un-cool at that time and yet you also state that your favourite bands were STILL kicking ass? Showing that they still played good guitar. Its called the mainstream retard. What sounds good is popular, what you've got to do is look beyond the mainstream. And not everyone that came out at that time had bad guitarist. Jeff Buckley, guy from Pearl Jam, Johnny Greenwood etc.

[nextslash]

Last time i listened to Johnny Cash, Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan or the Beatles, I dont remember hearing any ripping solos. That shouldnt take away from the music they poured their heart and soul into to create. personally im not into much shred but i have a lot of respect for them for spending years crafting their trade and making music they enjoy. i think greenday is crap like everyone else, but hes making money making music so i envy him a little. this is my first post, i signed up just to respond to this article

[dimebag7]

Man buckethead is the worst shredder alive, hes seriously the player i hate the most. I think greenday is better.

[zebrahead234]

as of now, im trying my hardest to learn to shred, but the licks i practice are often worn out and boring, a few are very musicsl, but only a few. the reason i'm trying to shred is as boubonic chronic said: not to be limited by technique. speed isnt something i like to use all the time, but like to have. its like buying an overdrive/booster pedal when you already have a good tube amp, just incase you need a little more gain

[toomeyboy]

Being able to shred doesn't make you a good guitarist. It's hard making something catchy and simple, and I've never had a shredded solo stuck in my head.

But I do agree that you should acctually learn to play.
It would be much easier for Kirt Hammet or Jimi Hendrix to come up with a simple catchy song that some kid that doesn't know any scales or chords.

And Slayer's an a*sshole to do that.

[Tim_5150]

hmmm.... i agree that music nowadays is a bit "weak" compared to back then... they no longer have instrument solos that lay down even the most basic scales, which is quite pathetic. if they're good enough to "make it" the i'd at least expect them to trhow in a little technicality now and then....

i'm not 100% against "no-solo" bands, i quite enjoy listening to some altenativw/ new wave/ grunge bands (e.g. toad the wet sprocket, nirvana, vast, foo fighters) but only becasue they're capable of making songs that show their dynamics and flexibility, not just " G x5, D x5, C x5"....

[Mikeoman]

Eh, I like a little bit of everything from both ends of the scale, and in between. Its whether the tune sounds good, not whether the guy can do a minorsus2sus4 lightning fast arpeggio or if he can only do power chords. Who cares? Its whatever you like. I don't listen to just Nirvana or just (insert shredder guy here), I listen to both!

*spam deleted

[scottishmob]

This article made no sense. I more than agree that learning your instrument is the way to go and that most music today shows almost no talent but I don't understand how the grunge hating came about. The vast, vast majority know their instruments (Mike Mcready, Kim Thayil). Nirvana isn't the only grunge band. You talk about how they signed deals and took the easy way out by putting out pointless love ballads etc, but no grunge band did that actually. Thats glam rock.
You ask what would Alice in Chains be without guitars which has nothing to do with your article, it pointless and has no difference. If I've misunderstood you, alright. But you say you love Slayer and Pantera, and other metal bands (shred stuff) and they're the most guitar heavy bands ever.The title doesn't work with the article at all.
Your thoughts just came off as confusing and I get the idea that you're part of the sadly misinformed part of UG.

[Dlawso]

Kurt Cobain couldnt play guitar, he could write good songs.

[mikecappa]

For all the fags that say Kurt had no talent and he ruined music or whatever. It's not that he couldn't play, it's that he chose to sound "childlike". and if you would have done a bit of research, you would have heard or read dave grohl say that they wanted to sound and play easy. And as much as i love Metallica, after hearing random notes sliding up and down the fretboard repeadidly in every song get annoying and repeditive after a while, hense why they DON'T "shred" anymore. and with all the metal bands playing at the time like metallica, for a band that simply used the 3 chord grunge sound to take over the airwaves and mainstream and become the sound of a generation, then they're doing something right. And although Kurt didnt express his talent by "shredding" the guitar, he showed it with his raspy screaming that no one else can immitate, and his deep, heartfelt but dark lyrics that obviously touched or changed some people. You might call him a modern day John Lennon. But mind you Im not saying Kurt is better than John, but Kurt was a huge Lennon fan and it shows. So to all of you who say music sucks unless you can "shred" **** you

[mikecappa]

Grunge, and people who play sloppy arnt taking the easy way out, there are different genres of music. Grung or alternative rock is mainly 3 chord and metal is fast in your face rhythms and insanly fast guitar solos. you cant compare the two then bash grunge because it isnt metal. they are two seperate things and who says music isnt good if it isnt metal

[rockergurl09]

I agree! (with the article) and also wonder why in the world grunge got so popular when it's far beaten in the guitar skills category by hair metal and the other stuff before grunge.

However, playing sloppy is not exactly taking the easy way out assuming you have something else to back it up. b/c the lyrics take skill as well. For example, Nirvana. I can play better guitar than Kurt w/ only 3 years experience, but his lyrics are amazing.

[rockergurl09]

lespaul_rentals wrote:

some shredders are mindless, true. but shredding takes skill. just like blues takes skill.

so why are bands like Green Day taking the stage of mainstream music? why did Nirvana take off? because they know how to write good music. they're talented not at playing an awesome solo, but rather combining lyrics and music to create a terrific song.

the comment about kurt cobains skull pissed me off...really...how inconsiderate of you.

Green Day does not have out of the ordinary lyrics. They are only good at making catchy stuff that makes money. Nirvana on the other hand does have good lyrics.

[Strat_Monkey]

Someone may have already said this, (I can't be arsed reading through all these comments to check) but even though Kurt very obviously did not possess much traditional technical guitar ability, he could control feedback extraordinarily well, crafting melodic solos with noise alone, and got some great, original tones out of his instrument because he really knew his stuff when it came to string guages, scale lengths, etc. With guitarists like Jimi Hendrix, Tom Morello and Matt Bellamy becoming guitar heroes for their ability to craft exquisite noise and tones with their guitar while keeping a melody, is it so wild to include Kurt Cobain in the category of Guitar Hero?

[mikecappa]

but even though Kurt very obviously did not possess much traditional technical guitar ability, he could control feedback extraordinarily well, crafting melodic solos with noise alone

I totally agree with Strat_monkey because Pennyroyal tea is a great example of Kurt's ability to make a solo out of feetback and get that unique guitar quality that you hear in litium and pennyroyaly tea

[Bubonic Chronic]

But as for the bit about liking seeing kurt cobains skull in an album sleve...fu*king weak man. Im not for one minuet saying i like him, but he still has family. And no one deserves to see there father/brother/son Etc being mocked. He might not have cared too much about his life, but in that case it is better to forget about him. Not mock him.

Oh, piss off!

If you knew anything about Kurt Cobain, he'd have laughed harder than anyone at the photo.

Jesus, read up on the man before going of on your holier-than-though moralist rampage.

[Bubonic Chronic]

And, BTW, I was referring to my past self and my past set of beliefs (which have changed) when I was attending high school in 1994.

At the time Nirvana pissed me off because I was trying really hard to get up to speed with Testament, Megadeth, even beginning to dig some jazz, and Kurt became successful without all of that skill.

Well I've since realized that Kurt Cobain was not an instrumentalist like me. He was more of a folk musician whose lyrics were the driving force behind the music - much like Bob Dylan who also sucks at guitar and writes AMAZING music that I love. Again, not an instrumentalist.

So don't put words in my mouth. If you read carefully, I never said I didn't like Nirvana (did I?) I was expressing my frustration at trying to build my skills using Alex Skolnick and Marty Friedman as role models and countless jack-offs were making millions playing three chords...

And in case you're wondering, I have plenty of three-chord songs. One goes A-C9-G-D (well okay, four chords), another goes Dm-G-C-Am (alright, four again,) but not everything I write is phenomenally difficult.

It's great to create grooves with three chords, but can you create a three chord groove in one key, then jump to a key that is extremely difficult to transition to? Three chords, three more chords - add seven accidentals?

Good luck.

[scottishmob]

Oh yeah, and I have Divine Intervention... There is no picture of Kurt Cobain in it.

[Notoriousdoc]

Grunge > metal anyday. The whole random notes thing really pisses me off. Whenever I hear a metal "song" I feel my soul die a little bit for the terrible musical masturbation going on with the guitarist(s). The solos and everything are nearly always horribley over-indulgent.

Writing a catchy tune, riff melody or whatever is worth a lot more than being able to shred

[Jack Flint]

I totally agree with bubonic that there are so many guitarists that play powerchords all day and don't even take the time to REALLY create a good riff or melody. Sure, power rock is cool, but don't do it all the time (by the way, nine inch nails "the hand that feeds" is an awesome example). people who take the time to learn actual chords, scales, and music theory is generally going to be able to make more complex and hopefully better songs (not saying that complexity makes a better song, but whatever). All the mainstream crap like simple plan and good charlotte is really pissing me off, but the problem is that most people can't and don't want to learn how to apreciate good music. I think that's enuff ranting.

[kurtshapedbox]

scottishmob wrote:

Oh yeah, and I have Divine Intervention... There is no picture of Kurt Cobain in it.

Samr here, and it's a really crappy album at that. The thing about slayer is that they CAN play but have no idea of how to structure a song. Som parts of that album sound as if you stuck 4 people in a room and made them play 4 diff songs at the same time while some dude with tourettes screams. And yes, I am a slayer slayer fan but that was a terrible album. Rant off. As for the article, I believe it would have been a lot easier and to the point if you just posted an article that said "Don't be lazy, learn to play your instrument. I hate Kurt Cobain!" everyone would have gotten the same thing out of the article.

[Mr.Awesome]

honestly, im starting to hate it when i lisrten to dream thater or metallica, and all of a sudden this long, overly fast guitar riff flies out of nowhere. I think it takes away from the songs full potential. Sure it might sound nice and impress some people but to me its starting to sound like its just filling up space that couldnt be filled with an awesome bass, or drum, or some other guitar riff. Other than that, in still love the music, but please, cut back on those solos.

[axe_grinder247]

chase09 wrote:

Stagger Lee wrote:

I agree that you should learn how to play properly, but in my opinion, shredding is not the way to go. I think just firing off random notes at light-speed sounds crappy. I mean, it just doesn't make for a catchy tune.
How often do you get a Yngwie Malmsteen tune stuck in your head?

Good article nonetheless. 8/10


If you honestly think shred is just playing random notes as fast as you can, then you my friend, are sadly misinformed (as is most of the guitar community, including UG). Shred is NOT, I repeat, NOT about playing random notes as fast as you can. Nor do we judge "good shredders" from "bad shredders" based on how fast they play. As Guthrie Govan has said, at its best 'shred' is a way for guitarists to express themselves without needing to worry about technical limitations. At its worst, it is a competitive sport for those with no musical identity. The reason shred gets such a bad reputation is because of the people who are just trying to play as fast as they can, while not really creating a very melodic composition. Guys like Chris Impelliteri, Michael Angelo Batio, and Francesco Fareri are, IMHO, more about just showing off technically than about creating melodic music. Guys like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani hardly ever 'shred' as most of you guys would put it. Sure they may use fast licks every now and then, but these guys are just out there to make great music, and they sure as hell are amazing at creating emotional pieces of music. John Petrucci, Paul Gilbert, Shawn Lane, Jason Becker, and Michael Romeo often play fast (this is what you guys dub 'shred') but they aren't just playing scales or random notes really fast, these guys are playing licks or phrases that they have come up with, or are using arpeggios, then link them together to create solos/songs. They also know how to play slow and emotional, and don't just all out shred. They know how to build up to a climax with slower stuff, and then just let it explode over the top and make you tingle all over with emotion. These guys often tend to know TONS of music theory and they can create really melodic and emotional pieces of music. Slow, fast, or combined.

I would also like to point out that the people in the shred forum don't listen to shred exclusively. We don't mind listening to slow things, in fact, they are often beautiful. Melodic music, whether it be on guitar or not (piano for example), is what we like the most. I would also have to say that maybe except for some blues/jazz and acoustic guitarists, 'shredders' have a taste for the most melodic music and are not just mindless machines trying to be the fastest guitarist without any inkling of creating true music.

/rant

Many people on UG say that virtuosos are just 'mindless shredders' when truly, the people in the shred forum are into the more melodic shredders.

i second this...it's very true, i would much rather listen to a flamenco guitar piece than batio playing blindingly fast arpeggios and scales with no melody...to me, shred should express some sort of emotion and not just a 10-minute wankfest...most of these players are just egotistical and strive to show that they are "the best", but in reality i'd buy an Al di Meola album WAY before a Rusty Cooley or Francesco Fareri...why do you think so many "real" shredders like Petrucci have so many classical influences?

[Cal UK]

Interesting article but the thing about Kurt Cobains skull that was way way too far. You love the image of someones murder/death because they played what was in your opinion rubbish music. You need to seriously get a grip of perspective. I'm not saying I don't disagree with you and that where has good guitar playing gone but that comment was just too far.

[A_Global_Threat]

ok
metallican never 'shredded'
the played fast but no shredding.

nirvana was the most idiotic band of all time

[Tantalus]

I agree for the most part with this article. The last two decades of popular music has been on the far decline. People think that simply because a song is emotional that it's good. Most modern punk rock, as well as a handful of indie and alternate rock, simply tug at your heartstrings to get you to buy the album.

Don't get me wrong, emotional isn't always bad. But when it becomes a substitute for talent, things have gone too far. Greats band like Dream Theater are both incredibly emotional with amazing solos.

[vanillagorilla1]

Let's get this out of the way. Nirvana flat out sucked. Cobaian was a horrible guitarist. This pop punk sucks too. Can anyone tell the deference between them? They all sound exactly the same. A song with three power chords, with incessant winning, from a bunch of guys who look like gay heroine addicts from a gap commercial. WOW that is great song writing. Any one who took guitar lessons for a year or less could play any green day, nirvana, or blink sum 41 song.
Here is the real reason why many don't like shred..... YOU CAN'T PLAY THAT WAY. It takes time, practice, and patience. This is something that you instant gratification, self centered, ADD, Ritalin popping generation don't understand. It much easier to learn how to play power chords and say all shred is playing random notes fast or you are all about playing with feeling. If that all it is why can't you play the way shred players do?
Are there some shedders that are over the top are more about technique than music? Sure but in my opinion I would rather listen to that than three anorexic guys with man shag hair playing the same three power chords over and over again. Listen to Black label society. Zakk Wylde is a great player but isn't playing over the top. As he said how does great playing become out of fashion? Listen to some Flamenco guitar. That is difficult to play.
Face it music sucks today. What happened is toward the end of the 80's with MTV the record companies started a cookie cutter production line with music. First it was the Glam bands with the power ballad, then flannel shirt wearing depressing java drinking grudge, now it's the pop punk crap. Historically every decade had two or thee bands that created their own style and lasted more longer than the music scene did. Bands like the Rolling stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Metallica, ect. Where are the bands like them today? Don't tell me green day or Nirvana even come close.

[LedZepp11]

finally someone realized it. I have been taking lessons for a couple months and most of my guitar playing friends ridicule me for it. I have no idea why they think that playing guitar good is uncool. great article man

[ToniVai]

First of lets get thinks straight: I listen to all kinds of what i consider music (this excludes hip-hop and techno\electronic music without any kind of melody). From this group of sounds that I call music I have respect for those that actually make good music, whatever genre it is, and don't 'playback' when they perform live and similar stuff.

I don't know if anyone here is from Portugal, but one of the most "best" bands here is D'ZRT. And it sickens me... they're only know because they take part in a TV series. They're music is straight down S_H_I_T and people like them because of their looks.

Anyway, about the article:
Many 80's great bands use keyboards only to play chords or accompaniment; Children of Bodom, Yngwie Malmsteen, [whatever band you like] uses keyboards for lead work
and they're equally great.
So, you only talk about the guitars because that's what rock's know for... but as for the keyboards, guitars don't have to do lead work to make the songs great.

I'm a guitarist and I LOVE shredding and anything from rock to black metal, as long as it pleases me. I often go with the more melodical stuff like... let's say Children of Bodom (Extreme Power Metal) they're heavy and fast... but at the same time melodical. And I also love Yngwie, Steve Vai(God), Impellitteri...
At the same time, I also hear the beauty in some tones without lead work.. or even without guitars. Tunes from the 80's like "Life's What You Make"..

About the bands you mentioned, i'm not much into punk rock because it's more about the looks than the talent (although not every one of them), so I don't know some of them. Nirvana doesn't please me much nor Green Day.

On a final note. Shredding isn't only playing fast... Yngwie is a shredder; Steve Vai is not

[ToniVai]

:S what an awful mistake: "Life's What You Make" has guitar sounds into it XD... anyway, i think you get me

[EmancipatedSoul]

no.1 i agree with chase09
no.2 Knowing NOT how to play was NEVER COOL
no.3you are a sick ****, all that about Kurt Cobain, he was brilliant, although not in the sense people may take it.
no.4 Shredding is not always BAD, there are very good melodies running around without you knowing it.
no.5 Try looking for some more bands that SHRED before you raise judgements.
no.6 Who are YOU, to raise Judgements, i think you are just jealous because you do not have the talent to SHRED
no.7 I have the Divine Intervention album, and there is NO (operative word "NO") picture of dead Kurt Cobain on it.
no.8 Shredding is not RANDOM, and it is NOT playing FAST, it does not have to be FAST
no.9 Mettalica never SHREDDED, they did not play RANDOMLY, and they didnt always play FAST either.
and lastly, read Chase09's RANT and get into your head

[Me2NiK]

Good article, but the Kurt Cobain bashing was a little unnecissary, don't you think?

I laugh at you all trying to define shredding. Interpreted literally it just means playing fast. That's it.

[pagan_bloodlust]

makeitcrynsing wrote:

SURFraptor7 wrote:

Check out some Santana or Clapton or David Gilmour and see what I'm talking about...


I second that. Very soulful with emotion. Shredding maybe be technically impressive but how many people can get lost and just escape the world listening to it? How many people can get it stuck in their head all day and like it just the same twenty years from then?

all these ppl ripping on shredding is really pissing me off because most shred guitarists play in bands with high tempo riffs and it would really be stupid to play a solo at say 60 bpm when the ****ing backing riff is being played at 130 bpm i think thats a bit self explanatory and all those that say fast passages have no emotion listen to dream theaters lost without you its mainly a slow blues instumental but petrucci still has all the feelin he had with his fast passages
and i always get lost listening to shredders

And im glad we have all this shit music today it makes the exceptional artist stand out so much more when their sitting there amongst a pack a wannabe muscians

[chickonmytip9]

its_sublime07 wrote:

wow, this was just a rant, i dont see how this is a column with any useful information in it. All you even did was bitch about how you dont like untalented music. Looks like its time to broaden your horizens. Me myself, i wouldnt say im a fan of shredding, but i wouldnt say im not. I think im just a fan of interesting music and killer melodies. cobain wasnt all that bad, I used to love the guy, and some of his stuff is pretty ****in cool. Slayer isnt really my cup of tea, but metallica is awesome, especially the black album. Well I'd say im done ranting about this pointless rant.

yeah, he pretty much said it.

[Kenshin3516]

I'm sick and tired of people whining about shred. Some shred is bad, some shred is good, some shred is boring, some shred is interesting. It's just like every other ****ing genre in music people. You can't just generalize it by saying it's just a bunch of fast notes without feeling. There's plenty of shredders out there who play with feeling, just because they doesn't have the same exact feeling as Jimi or Vaughan doesn't mean their playing is emotionless.

[Spanner]

Ok, please do not take offence to this anybody, I mean you are all entiled to your own opinions on whatever topic as am I.
But I absolutely DESPISE shred guitar playing in all ways shapes and form.
Im sorry but it IS just a guitar playing race (NO IT IS!!). 99% of shredders are absolutely hopelessly talented at playing ANY instrument.
I myself like nearly all styles of music bar one or two, and would listen to it a few hours a day. But I bought a few albums in this "STYLE" (it is NOT an actual musical style btw!!) known as shred, and I
listened to them atleast one hour a week, and then binned all of them.
Shred unlike all other forms of music, lacks emotion, it does not(mostly) have good riffs (its all about the lead guitar in your face) beats anything. Its all just a load of show off fast lead guitar crap, all about the shredder hogging the mic for a few minutes.
A band is nothing with the lead guitarist doing it this way (FACT).
I havent listened to a shred tune in nearly two years and I am a lot more happy without it.
Trust me guys DONT (if your like me of course) try to play shred guitar for your careers, you will get NO WHERE!!, I mean if you ask someone who Vai or Malmsteen or Satch are who doesnt play a guitar, they are not going to have a clue; why? because shredders get NO WHERE in comparison with other great players such as Clapton or Hendrix. Sure guitarists like Cobain were arguably "bad" technically speaking, but you have to think about one thing; their music is a HEll of a lot better!.
Well I hope I havent offended anyone, but think about what I said before you flame me.
Spanner.

[Guitargod12345]

Shredding brings the guitar out and proves what you can do.

[Under_The_Oath]

Spanner wrote:

Ok, please do not take offence to this anybody, I mean you are all entiled to your own opinions on whatever topic as am I.
But I absolutely DESPISE shred guitar playing in all ways shapes and form.
Im sorry but it IS just a guitar playing race (NO IT IS!!). 99% of shredders are absolutely hopelessly talented at playing ANY instrument.
I myself like nearly all styles of music bar one or two, and would listen to it a few hours a day. But I bought a few albums in this "STYLE" (it is NOT an actual musical style btw!!) known as shred, and I
listened to them atleast one hour a week, and then binned all of them.
Shred unlike all other forms of music, lacks emotion, it does not(mostly) have good riffs (its all about the lead guitar in your face) beats anything. Its all just a load of show off fast lead guitar crap, all about the shredder hogging the mic for a few minutes.
A band is nothing with the lead guitarist doing it this way (FACT).
I havent listened to a shred tune in nearly two years and I am a lot more happy without it.
Trust me guys DONT (if your like me of course) try to play shred guitar for your careers, you will get NO WHERE!!, I mean if you ask someone who Vai or Malmsteen or Satch are who doesnt play a guitar, they are not going to have a clue; why? because shredders get NO WHERE in comparison with other great players such as Clapton or Hendrix. Sure guitarists like Cobain were arguably "bad" technically speaking, but you have to think about one thing; their music is a HEll of a lot better!.
Well I hope I havent offended anyone, but think about what I said before you flame me.
Spanner.

Yep, I'm with Spanner on this. I mean, I don't hate shred like he does, but it really is just about showing off how good you are, with no emotion whatsoever.

[Axedamn]

The Cobain comment was brilliantly un-P.C.

[Flamin' Mania]

Heres some constructive critisism

To begin with shredding never died, neither did decent guitar playing. When "Nevermind" came out and grunge went huge, this was a year after "Cowboys From Hell" - The first accepted record by pantera - came out. Dimebag was an awesome shredder who also had one of the main components shred music lacked - feeling. Which is also what Grunge had as well as alternative music. Everybody was sick of shredders trying to be faster then the last person that finished their set before them.

Secondly, say what you want about grunge and stuff. They may be talentless(even though its really quite hard to manipulate feedback to have the same noise every live show) or sound bad to you, but other people like them. You may hate Kurt Cobain and think he was a huge sellout, but you should also take into hand that some people look up to him. So don't go saying **** about people you've never met who other people look up to just cause you dont like them.

Thirdly, there is a difference to playing the guitar and playing scales incredibly fast. Now I agree with the fact that people should get lazy and play the same 3 chords to make 10 albums. But just because you can play an blues scale faster then herman li doesnt make it a song either.

There needs to be an equal amount of feeling into songs aswell as technique. In my opinion, technique should only be a way as to make your ability to play a song and write a song which sounds good, it shouldnt be shown off

[Rexbeans]

I'm just gonna make it brief,but i do agree a lot with flamin mania on this one..
A lot of the players that are admired by ordinary people not just guitar players (like Angus young, Brian may, Slash, Eric clapton etc..) are players that play with a certain unique feel & most importantly they compliment the song with their playing... I'm not saying you should be lazy it's just the vast majority of people just don't give a shit that you can sweep/tap at 300+bpm..
You only gotta have a look at you tube to realize a hell of a lot of people can play like that..
But how many of those guys are really gonna write a classic song that will be remembered for years to come instead of cannon in D again..
Not many..

[getsinyoureyes]

Under_The_Oath wrote:

Spanner wrote:

Ok, please do not take offence to this anybody, I mean you are all entiled to your own opinions on whatever topic as am I.
But I absolutely DESPISE shred guitar playing in all ways shapes and form.
Im sorry but it IS just a guitar playing race (NO IT IS!!). 99% of shredders are absolutely hopelessly talented at playing ANY instrument.
I myself like nearly all styles of music bar one or two, and would listen to it a few hours a day. But I bought a few albums in this "STYLE" (it is NOT an actual musical style btw!!) known as shred, and I
listened to them atleast one hour a week, and then binned all of them.
Shred unlike all other forms of music, lacks emotion, it does not(mostly) have good riffs (its all about the lead guitar in your face) beats anything. Its all just a load of show off fast lead guitar crap, all about the shredder hogging the mic for a few minutes.
A band is nothing with the lead guitarist doing it this way (FACT).
I havent listened to a shred tune in nearly two years and I am a lot more happy without it.
Trust me guys DONT (if your like me of course) try to play shred guitar for your careers, you will get NO WHERE!!, I mean if you ask someone who Vai or Malmsteen or Satch are who doesnt play a guitar, they are not going to have a clue; why? because shredders get NO WHERE in comparison with other great players such as Clapton or Hendrix. Sure guitarists like Cobain were arguably "bad" technically speaking, but you have to think about one thing; their music is a HEll of a lot better!.
Well I hope I havent offended anyone, but think about what I said before you flame me.
Spanner.



Yep, I'm with Spanner on this. I mean, I don't hate shred like he does, but it really is just about showing off how good you are, with no emotion whatsoever.

I'm with both of them. Honestly, I've been playing guitar for 7 years. I can play fairly darn fast if I want to, but when I write songs I never include this. Why? Because it is worthless. It is merely an attempt to show off. Music is meant to be pretty, melodic, to take you away to another place and into another person's mind.

Shred isn't that impressive to begin with. Take it from a person who is also a professional juggler. Shred is merely muscle memory. Muscle memory and talent are NOT the same thing. Anyone on God's green earth can learn something from muscle memory. It takes no talent. TALENT is writing a song, a lyric, a melody that touches people's lives, that helps them get through their day. If that lyric is depressing and it helps them to feel that they are not alone... then great. If that lyric is uplifting and they feel inspired to do something different in their life then wonderful. If the melody makes them want to sit on their porch and stare at the sky or blast the radio and roll all the windows down... it doesn't matter because it is doing something that transends muscle memory... it is changing lives. THAT is true talent.