Hip Hop: Punk's Broken Reflection

This is about rap. There’s some parts about punk but mainly it’s about rap. This is also long, so if reading scares you or you have add, exit, stage left.

Rap is a term I despise. So right now, we’re gonna throw the word “rap” out the door. Instead we are going to use a blanket term here, in this case, the term “hip hop”. When we use the term “rap” from now on, it’ll be only in reference to the actual lyrical poetry. It’s forbidden. Don’t even think of saying it. So anyways, The point of this article is to give you some education. Yes! Education! And I’m playing teacher, just like those funny little adults who stand in front of you for six hours a day.

Let’s start with a little history lesson. Gather ‘round kiddies! Now, Hip Hop was an interesting birthing. Rap is a bastard child of a couple genres, (another term I despise) specifically, Jazz, Blues, Funk, Soul and dare I say... Punk. Punk?!? Did he say Punk?!? Now, your first reaction will probably be, “Well, golly Mr. An_anvil_tree! I’ve heard Good Charlotte and I’ve heard 50 Cent and these fellas couldn’t be more polar!” Excellent observation! I’ll come back to the Punk connection in a moment, but first a quick summation of the rest of Hip Hop History 101.

You see, back in the 70's, small steps were being taking that would alter the face of music. Songs such as “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised” by Gil Scott-Heron and “Ego-tripping Out” by Marvin Gaye began employing the first “raps”. “The Revolution Will Not Be Televised” is personal favorite of mine, scathingly political and direct. These “raps” are a far cry from what is labeled and packaged as Hip Hop on your local music channel. Often times, these seminal raps didn’t even rhyme! Nuts, huh? So anyways, the with the lyrical aspect out there, all that’s left is the musical aspect. This came about simply about simply by local DJ’s “sampling” music from various artists for dancing with eventually became know as break-dancing.

You have to realize, that a “genre” (bleh) doesn’t come into it’s own until it’s commercially successful. After all, when a Recording Company picks up an album and prepares to invest it’s time and money into it, the boys and girls in marketing gotta know what to call it. Thus, genres are born, MTV lives, Clear Channel cannibalizes, baby Jesus cries. Hip Hop comes into it’s own in the late 70's, explodes in the 80's and is now on the top of the charts, sitting pretty next to American Idol singles and oh, I dunno, let’s say Random Rock Band #5. I could tell you about every significant artist from the Sugar Hill Gang to Run DMC to Tupac to Jay-Z, but I’d find that boring and I’m sure you would too. I know you are about ready to comment “rap sucks” on this article. I can see it in your eyes. Some of you probably already have. Oh, well. Now since you are versed in a bit of the history, we can get on to other things. For example, the relevance of Punk in an article about Hip Hop.

Hip Hop is Punk’s genuine cousin. Now let me explain this before things get out of hand. Initially speaking in Hip Hop, there’s no real trace of Punk musical influence. When I say Hip Hop comes from Punk, (or vice versa, seeing as the two styles appeared around the same time). I mean in ideals. The traditional Punk “ideals” were very simple: No rules. Gimme music without compromise. Everything goes; the Velvet Underground, Stooges and New York Dolls gave birth to a kicking, screaming dynasty where the Ramones did it fast, the Clash did it smart, The Misfits made it manic and Fugazi did it on their own terms. In the beginning, the same sentiment was applied in Hip Hop. It was communal and they did what they wanted. All the while, drugs, hoes and poverty were the inner city backdrop in this chance to be laid-back, work without structure. “Rapper’s Delight” eased into casette players, blared out of boom-boxes. It wasn’t about the atrocities of the inner city, bling, and cars; and for a moment, those who enjoyed it weren’t worried about those things (or never being able to get those things). And just like those seminal Punks, seminal Hip Hop artists did it their way. Kurtis Blow paved the way, Big Daddy Kane was decadent yet never made it who he was, Public Enemy spit fire, all the while telling you how it was, N.W.A gave a glimpse of the life and Run DMC? They only demolished every single barrier Hip Hop faced. Give me Jam Master Jay, I’ll show you Joe Strummer. Run DMC and the Clash were one in the same.

Beyond those original ideals, Punk and Hip Hop floated away from each other. There was never the monumental Punk-Hip Hop crossover that there should have been. Well, actually this is probably a good thing, seeing as what happened when Metal and Hip Hop made love. Anyways, I see Punk and Hip Hop as the same still today. Both genres are in the same position today. Look on the charts and the bands on the top of these genres aren’t the one’s that are the most talented (not to say they are talentless either) , nor are they groundbreaking in any manner. They are infectious, without a doubt. They have garnered the titles Pop-Punk and Pop-Rap. If you are happy with that as it stands, then just quit reading now. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. But the problem with standing still is that after a while the music will get stagnant. Remember this, for every million copy-cat bands, whether it is Hip Hop, Punk, Metal, Emo, whatever, there are bands doing it right. For every tired 50 Cent lyric about “In Da Club”, there’s a lyricist doing it right:

“I rest my head on 155th
But miracles only have on 34th so I guess life is mean
And death is the median, and purgatory is the mode that we settle in”

There you go, hopefully you are a little more edu-ma-cated, An_anvil_tree style. I hope you can take something from this and apply it to your own life. Well, ok that’s probably very unlikely, but if you did make it this far, then I applaud you, no matter what you musical preference is. It shows you are willing to listen to another’s opinion, take all the facts, and make an assessment of your own beyond “Rap sucks! SoaD Rulez!” But in the end, nothing I can say will really matter. You’ll have your opinion, I, mine. And maybe you’ll go own hating Hip Hop until your final breathe. That’s fine. All I ask is that you answer this question: So how does it feel to achieve absolutely nothing? Now, I’m gonna go listen to some Tool, followed up by a little Outkast, peppered with Queens Of The Stone Age, The Roots and maybe some Bob Marley to top it off.

Comments

[bigmattbrown]

Very interesting. Well put across, and very valid points. This issue goes back to passion in the music, which is something that, as you point out, you only tend to get in the innovaters and the underground or less well known bands. Very good article!

[G-Rock]

Very very good article. Couldn't stop reading, and couldn't stop agreeing. This man took all the thoughts I had and threw em in this article. Beautiful stuff.
p.s. My playlist goes from Slipknot to Phil Collins to Dashboard Confessional to KoRn to Prodigy to Twiztid...Yeah. Varity = Good

[chaz man]

Good job

[5MileGetaway]

excellent article man, im not gonna say its given me a new respect for all hip hop, but it does make u think

[Encore_God]

?I rest my head on 155th
But miracles only have on 34th so I guess life is mean
And death is the median, and purgatory is the mode that we settle in?

Thats a superb lyric.

This was a very good article. I don't necessarily think that eclectic collections prove anything, or that having hugely wide musical taste is beneficial at all in particular, but this article brings it back to earth that some forms of music aren't as far apart as morons would care to presume.

[FlyingFuc!<]

I agree. I listen to rap and rock(real rock) and I've understood that they come from the same birthplace.

[blindworld]

I couldn't have said it any better myself man. its nice to know that there are other people who understand some of the possible deep meanings behind music. Now Im going to go listen to some Method Man, SOAD, throw in some Common, Oneside zero, and a little Linkin Park and to top it off some Stevie Ray Vaughnfor some spice.

[Brand Nizzle182]

lol. that's an idea. a weird ass idea but nevertheless an idea.

i have allways thought Outkast is more punk than most punk artists. Andre does whatever the FUCK he wants, raps/sings how he wants dresses how he wants acts how he wants.

Then there is atmosphere who are kinda like emo/rap. they sing about the same things as brand new or bright eyes but deliver them in hip hop music.

interesting. nice article!

[NUBIENLOC76]

oh hell , man good article,the best article on rap that i have read in hear yet but i do plan on submitting an article along the same lines. there are so may people in ug that say that they dont like rap how can you love music and hate one particular kind i listen to everything from Aerosmith. Zeplin, to Hendrix. and i was born, raised and ate rap as a youngun but ill drop that bomb on you when the time comes

[just some guy]

hehehehe....dude...that was awesome. like...the best article ever written...and get it.

[runefan88]

there definately are connections, but punk was before hip-hop, well before hip-hop. punk can be traced back to god knows when, but for argument's sake, we'll say the 1940's.

Punk, as well as early hip-hop, were both about overcoming oppression and expressing yourself however you want. but over the years rap turned from "i got no money" to "sippin crystal in my rolls". how sold out is that. punk bands have sold out, but they are still able to keep some standards intact. punk is smarter than hip-hop without question.

a good hip-hop/punk crossover is magnificent seven by the clash. also, the transplants are alright.

[An_anvil_tree]

Encore_God, good point and I agree with you. Eclectic tastes don't really do anything really. I do, however, think it reflects willingness to take a chance with something else. I grew up listening to rap so starting to listen to rock was a jump for me. I also used it to serve the point that I'm not just some militant hip hop fan hunting for converts hehe. I also agree that punk's roots did come before hip hop's, since after all, punk is basically minimalist rock, which is how rock started. What I was comparing was the appearance of the punk aesthetic, which was a more recent invention.

Oh and the lyric is "But miracles only happen (not have)" and it is superb and I wish I did write it myself hehe. Thanks for the open mindedness and positive responses.

[ad_lib_oz]

"i listen to everything from Aerosmith. Zeplin, to Hendrix" - NUBIENLOC76

uh mate there really isnt that much variety there...


yeah fair article i agree with your viewpoints but in a way the two genres have gone their separate ways, but i guess more recently theyve joined again with the whole pop/fusion thing with everything at the moment. ah well, cant help progress

[Psykotik]

-take all the facts, and make an assessment of your own beyond ?Rap sucks! SoaD Rulez!? -

the funny thing is that rap really sucks and soad really rules.

[less than that]

great article, good points and very well written. i think we can all agree that mainstream rap sucks and most of us don't hear any rap beyond that which would prove the statement wrong

[~King_Of_Foolz~]

its definately good to hear from sumone who isn't confined by the need to listen to a single genre.. or even worse.. i single sub-genre... but i think the prollem is.. most of the ppl that read this already thought that way... the ppl that realli need to open their eyes.. and tolerate.. not neccesarily fall in love wif other music.. are the ones that stopped readin near the top... its a shame realli.. btw good article

Psykotik:
-take all the facts, and make an assessment of your own beyond ?Rap sucks! SoaD Rulez!? -

the funny thing is that rap really sucks and soad really rules.
[POSTED: 30 January 2004 - 22:32]|

i think you missed the point of the article, buddy.

excellent article. i like this perspective.

[sargasm]

hey thats a great article... i never really thought about it that way

good job

[UseYourBrain]

I am diffinely Edu-ma-cated, An-Anvil-Tree style!

I have never really thought about it but they are similar in many ways. Great article.

[hobo8917]

Great article

[Gurgle!Argh!]

Superb article... makes a change to be making a comment agreeing with an article about rap....

Anyway, superb, you should write more...

[Brandnewlow]

Great Article
I also believe that one of the first songs to ever have hip-hop in it was a blondie song ... just can't remember which one. Saw it on a behind the music of the 70's

[Emenius Sleepus]

Superb effort. Cleverly written.

[gblews]

Good article. But I don't belieive the relationship between punk and hip-hop is any greater than that which hip-hop shares with rock in general. I'm talking abput the rebelliousness, irreverence, etc. Also, I disagree with the contention that hip-hop, at least the "rap" aspect, began as recently as the 20th century. There has been speculation that "rap" can be traced back through Black churches, in the form of "testifying" and "preaching", all the way back to some African tribes. Certainly break dancing which is considered an outgrowth of hip-hop has roots that go back many many years. Watch the credits at the end of a movie called "Tap". They show film of Black men "break dancing" and "Moonwalking", that appear to be from the '20s and the '40s

[gblews]

Oops, left out something important. With respect to your history of hip-hop, I don't see how you cannot mention James Brown in terms of "recent" influences. His influence on "rap" cannot be understated. He didn't invent it, as I've heard some say, but he sure pushed lyrical expression to a point from which young East coast musicians found it easy to run. That influence alone goes back to the '50s and did not start in the '70s. For that matter, what about the influence on hip-hop and "rap" of artists from Ray Charles to Sam Cooke?

[Define_"punk"]

Excellent

[SLAYTERA]

all you ignorant people dont know rap and hip-hop if you only listen to rock music.you dont know everybody about unless you have experienced throught the music.the problem is that most you people are one dimentional.you will only stick to one thing.you think rappers are the same thing too.but not everybody is like that.I listen to mixed genres of rap ,hip hip,death metal,acoustic and punk.There is some rap that is actually good.it is the good rappers who freestyle at the underground with good rhyming that is poetic.so rockers dont say you know rap is about when you dont listen to it.

[An_anvil_tree]

gblews, excellent point. Rap has been a long way coming. I could have also added that Louie Armstrong (I think it was Armstrong, can't remember) used to introduce his other band mates in a methodic, "rap" skat. For that matter, a lot of the non-sensical aspects of raps come from skats. Armstrong, James Brown, Ray Charles, Cooke, Stevie Wonder and dozens of other artists have all shaped rap in some way shape or form. If you really want to draw it out, it could be argued that nearly ever musician has some effect on every musician who follows. For all intents and purposes here, however, I was merely trying to abridge the history of rap to a point in time where the genre was truely defined, in this case, the mid to late 70's. But you are absolutely right, it has been a long time coming.

As for Psykotic, if he got to that quote and actually read all the way through, good for him. Like I said, he can have whatever opinion he wants.

[ReelGreenBat]

great article. I hate the rap that exists now a days. I don't go out of my way to listen to older rap, but what I've heard I like. I kinda wish I would be able to get more educated in older rap but...Great Article anyway

[TheKef]

Good job throwing so much random shit in there, get to the point. A good paragraph or two is about teachers and all your "clever" little jokes.THEKEF owns this town

[PunxNotDead7688]

Punk is the public outcry agianst the corporate rock community

[elms2988]

do all of you really think this was a good article? well, ok...
to me personally it came off as a little insulting to my intelligence, with all that teacher crap, and it just seemed to me like a bunch of cute sayings about old rap guys. and maybe it's cuz I'm not much into rap myself, but I didn't catch the part where he actually backed up his pint, that rap and hip hop were related

[XQuickDeathX]

God man i completely agree with you. I like "Rap" music but only when it has a good message. I am in love with punk music but only when it has a good message. See where im going with this? the only good Rap/Metal band was Rage against the machine because they completely blew everyone away and dun dun dun "had a good message!"

[NUBIENLOC76]

DAMIT NOW IDIOTS ARE MAKIN ME REVISIT MY COMMENTS.KUDOS TO SLAYTERA YOU ACTUALLY GET IT AND TO ALL OF YOU CLOSE MINDED PEOPLE FIND SOMEONE WHO LISTENS TO RAP. NOT JUST THE MUSIC BUT THE LYRICS BECAUSE A TRU HIP HOP HEAD DOSE NOT BUY RAP FOR A BEAT ONLY THE ARTISTS HAS TO BE SAYING SOMETHING NOT LIKE THAT LIL JON CRAP I WONT SPEND 15 DOLLARS TO BE YELLED AT BUT IF YOU WANT TO HEAR REAL RAP SKILLS TRY CEE-LO, ANY OUTKAST ALBUM AND IF YOU WANT TO GO THERE HEY BDP BLUEPRINT ALBUM (WAY BEFORE JAY-Z PUT OUT A BLUEPRINT ALBUM)

[transcend]

slaytera, nubien, what in the hell are you talking about? you're yelling at people for what they said, and then saying the exact same thing. Why are you attacking people that you would seem to agree with?

[Zechs]

An intelligent well-written article. What's the world coming too? Good read.

[Zechs]

Oh yea, and just listen to rage against the machine!

[three.chords]

i hate rap or hip hop wtf they call it

[three.chords]

or wtf they call it**

[boxcarblink41]

nahh... fuse them together!!! THE TRANSPLANTS! HURRAAAH!!!!!!

[PimpJuse]

three.chords wtf are you talking about? did you even read the damn article? jeez anyways. good read. an actual intelligent article. not like 1 sided thoughts like psykotik's

but you also cant forget about the beat makers haha yea peace

peace

[----{XAK}----]

Yes, I'll admit rap(not hip hop and yes there is a difference)and punk are connected through there similar anarchist attitudes. But other than that theres no connection. Decent article,Nice Subject
Punk/Metal/Moder
n/Alternative whatever the hell you prefer they all have the same meaning!Rock on! Fuk tha Pop money machines!And bring back the Rock And Roll!

[Xeus]

done me proud anvil

(post some more columns you fool!)

[scumfuc_69]

why would there be a punk/"rap" cross-over????
I'm sure hop-hop "artists" would be up for it since they've done the same thing for 25-or-so years, but
"crossover" is just another word for lack of ideas
I don't know why I waste my time with assholes like you. You need a history lesson before you try to write
"the Bible of Music"

[Glard]

if hip hop is cousinz with Punk does that Make hip hop WHITE... IF SO.. it would be wierd

[An_anvil_tree]

Why wouldn't there be a punk/"rap" cross-over????
I'm sure Punk "artists" would be up for it since most have done the power-chord, distorted, squeaky singing, fast/sloppy playing thing for 25-or-so years.
"crossover" is just another word for musicians with varied interests, i.e. not ignorant of the state of music.
I don't know why I waste my time with assholes like you. You need to think before you start typing. I mean, it's good to think. Try it. And I'll leave the "Bible of Music" to you.

(before anyone gets on me for the Punk shot, it was merely an attempt to reflect his ignorance. Obviously there are innovators in Punk, just as there are in hip-hop. Neither has been stagnant for the past 25 years and only someone in "need of a history lesson" would say such.

[GuiTarPlaYnPunK]

i get your point.

[uragooch33]

hey look at me im an anvil tree hey guess waht everyone gutiars were invented by grapes and humans evolved from wdatermelons.......... your a dumbass punk and rap have nothing alike two completely diff. state of minds lyrical styles and music

[uragooch33]

guitars** watermelons**

[iwannabeanarchy]

rap rap rap rappity rap rap bite me

[psychodelia]

NUBIENLOC76 was right btw jay z wasnt the first to make an album called the blueprint. anyway lots of punks are more into "underground" punk music, and would absolutely crap themselves if they were judged by pop punk like good charlotte. if so they really cant judge all of rap by the pop-rap that floats on top of the mainstream charts today... first try to get a taste of all the underground rap you can. then youll have a better understanding of rap than just the pop stuff

[alaskanbassist]

Are you saying d-12 song 'My Band' is punk? Because that would also mean Eminiem is punk-(haggot).
Or maybe is punk really hip-hop (or rap as we call it)?

[Publicservices]

I like "old skool" hip-hop (or do we call it rap?), and i'm a huge fan of punk. But just as with punk, the new hip-hop/rap just sucks.

[alaskanbassist]

R&B dance (like Burn by Usher or Bounce by Sarah somethinorother) aren't even close to being punk.

[PetrucciRocks]

Yea, but he means rap. I agree with him 100%.

[PetrucciRocks]

And its Sarah Connors! I just remember her name cuz of Terminator lol.

[blistabass]

i hate rap today. older stuff is better but i dont download or buy it.

[Crazy Punker]

you say that punk and hip-hop havent merged. listen to the transplants

[PychoArtRocker]

I relly love this artical. Mainly because i hang out with a lot people who say "hiphop sucks" and only heard the crap thats on the charts. Im suprised that "hip hop people" dont hate rock for the crap thats on the charts. Now i am not saying that main stream musics all sucks. Outkast,The Roots, are very good hip hop bands and then there is rock The Strokes,The White Stripes are exelent bands to. Then there is the evil of the world Nelly with lyrics that are more retarted than the song "lets get retarted", and Good Charlott who i dont even call punk,i call them "pop punk". Il stop here because im starting to write up a artical of my own.

[Jerome]

to go back even further, most music we listen too today originated from african american slaves in the 1800's

[anti-goth]

good charlotte is not punk. how many times do i have to say it?

[Rock 101]

GOOD CHARLOTTE IS NOT PUNK. And there's nothing punk about talking about how you ****ed a hoe or got high. Hip Hop is crap.

[LatinRoller89]

FUCK Jay z man Anyways good article.

[HelpImARock]

It's an interesting spin on things I'll give you that. It makes sense but i dont completely buy into the theory. Punk and hip-hop had the same fundementals essentially but it was just to odifferent even abck then. You had rap bands rebelling aganst the government treatment of african americans and you had punk bands rebelling against the censorship and hypocrisy in the government. Still a well voiced article, though the only rapepr I can stand nowadays is Kanye West.

[Pennyroyal Tea]

That was one hell of an article... lets piss u off a little shall we: RAP RAP RAP RAP RAP! HEHE... jus' kidding! I despise that genre and all its subgenre's in any form... but seriously the article was really really great stuff!!!!

[ahier]

well....it was a googd story!!!!..i dont disagree with your point of view interms of coping and loving various styles /classifications of music ....its obvoius that you juts being positve in your mentality cocerning music....But i want you know these things: PUnk and hip hop maybe derived in similar aspects,,,But there is something in Punk thathp-hop doest have "BeinG PuNk MaKes a PersOn wise"-maybe you will say :hey!!! how does a loser become a "wise"??
Just try to ponder when Adam fell into the hands of serpeent(satan)"take this apple,thus you become a wise and know what is the truth behind the lies"-This is "PuNk"if you dont get it..its not my problem!!!

[greendaynaz87]

sir can i go toilet?

[ANGUS/JIMI_ROCK]

Rock and Hip Hop both evolved out of Jazz

[deathshead]

A lot of people need to open their eyes and figure out that other music is awsome to. Im the same way as the article guy, Ive got stuff from whiplash to sublime, bob marley to zakk wylde, red hot chilis to sacred reich, even some bethoven, all music is beautiful if its not focused on money, cars, pimps, or whatever.

[ShadowRelcuse]

Hooray. 5 Stars. Too bad not many people can seem to think in an intelligent manner such as this. Oh well. Awesome job.

[Duone DSL DPK]

I like yer article An_anvil_i can't remember the rest, and it echoes a lot of sentiment I have about the nature of undeground hip hop AND punk music. And big ups to the Cannibal Ox reference there, that ish is nice. It may not be real kosher or whatnot, but I think I'll put a bit of an adendum or addition or freeking extra article right here:

It seems like a lot of people ar getting hung up on the classification of genres. Many record companies have lumped much of the "urban youth" music into something of a Rap/Hip Hop/R&B category. While Nelly is technically rapping, he's miles away from the same kind of thing as Aesop Rock, and most of us will agree that B2K sounds nothing like The Supremes. They all are in the same "genre", so to speak, but the actuality of their style and quality are like black and white. Hip hop as a genre listing on a CD info tag and Hip Hop as a culture are two starkly different things. Just as current R&B singers of today are hardly like the classical Rythym and Blues singers of the 30's, 40's, and 50's.

So to say Hip Hop, you need to differentiate between the RIAA genre term, or the cultural phemonena term. I believe An_anvil was referring to the latter, but might have wanted to make reference to that. Hip-hop culture was and is still a result of the toil and trouble of big-city life. Not to say that there aren't exceptions to that generalization, but for the most part it rings true. So hip-hop music was the music of street kids and inner city youth. Now, if I'm not mistaken, that's a pretty close similarity to the birth of punk - music by british street kids. And, in their early stages, both styles shared some of the same ideology: frustration with authority, frustration with their parents, frustration with the state of the world, and a desire to "be themselves". I think this is the connection/similarity that an_anvil was getting at.

These similarities exist even today. It's not uncommon to go to an underground hip-hop show and see someone there with a patched up "Casualties" jacket. (I know that fashion doesn't make the punk. I'm just trying to make a point.) Likewise, I've been to punk shows in people's houses and not been the only guy there with a Hieroglyphics t-shirt. Another good example is the presence of hip-hop groups on rock tours like Atmosphere on the Warped Tour and Jurassic Five on Lollapalooza. And the fascination of many punk kids with the graffiti tradition present in hip-hop culture is one of the better stylistic crossovers in ideology I could think of. So while not all rappers are "hip hop", and not all dye-jobs are "punk", I think that if you look closer at an_anvil's initial idea, that the similarities are there.

[Duone DSL DPK]

[QUOTE=ahier]PUnk and hip hop maybe derived in similar aspects,,,But there is something in Punk thathp-hop doest have "BeinG PuNk MaKes a PersOn wise"

I think Mr. Lif, El-P, Dead Prez, The Roots, Balckalicious, The Coup, most of Hiero, and in fact musch of hip-hop in general would take issue with that. And while being learned doesn't mean being wise, you might try to spell your argument right before posting it.

[Duone DSL DPK]

runefan88:
punk bands have sold out, but they are still able to keep some standards intact. punk is smarter than hip-hop without question.

What standards did hip hop lose that punk managed to somehow "keep intact"? The reliance on power chords? Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Chingy here, but what reverence for that past do New Found Glory have for punk that 50 Cent somehow lacks for hip hop?

[Duone DSL DPK]

musch of hip-hop...

guess I should practice what I preach

[zogjones]

"So while not all rappers are "hip hop", and not all dye-jobs are "punk", I think that if you look closer at an_anvil's initial idea, that the similarities are there."
Duone has some great points. i'm a true blue punk kid and have been making new friends in the hip hop (REAL hip hop) crowd thru work. i'm discovering that true hip hop is just as political or more than any punk music. it's great.
the main thing about "sell-outs" is that NO ONE should make generalizations by saying punk bands have sold out, or rap has sold out. there are plenty of each who have truly sold out, and probably more who are the real thing living the punk rock life (which is a lot like the hip hop life, from what i understand).
so basically, no matter if you like hip hop or not, there are some glaring similarities that can't be ignored. and don't generalize about anything! that is unless it's prefaced with a disclaimer like, "i'm generalizing here, but..."
now go listen to the suicide machines "a match and some gasoline," and right after that listen to public enemy "it takes a nation of millions..." and tell me there's no similarities.
peace everyone!

[orangejuice]

three.chords ...Wow I really i really think people should read the damn article before posting comments like that..anyways, good article.

[pinoy_rocker]

its good to have people listen to different genres of music..may it be mainstream or not...my playlist include nirvana, slipknot, mozart (the classical composer), symphony x, dream theater, sarah brightman, norah jones, metallica....

[DeadCrassSong13]

I never thought of it that way. Now i do. Thats interesting. Good article.

[Dogwillhunt]

Doesn't RAP stand for Retards Attempting Poetry? I mean come on! To say hiphop and punk came from the same place or that even the earliest hiphop and punk had a lot of similarities is like wiping your butt before you poop... it doesn't make any sense. And if you want to listen to a psuedo-punk hip hop crossover listen to early Beastie Boys. I honestly don't think the Sex Pistols or the Ramones ever sang about "Rollin' down the street in my '64, jockin' the bitches, slappin' the ho's". I've never heard Iggy Pop talk about tims, rims, 22's, blunts, ho's or bling bling. This is insane!

[SumGreenNOFX182]

I heard somewhere hip-hop came a bit from punk. Well, now I understand. Five thumbs up. Or stars. Whatever you want.

[zogjones]

Dogwillhunt--you're right. ramones never sang about superficial sheit like the "bling" rap that's so prevelant today. hiphop didn't start out like that--it became that just like punk became ****in' blink 182 and good charlotte. and by the way, RAP doesn't stand for anything as far as i know; like i suggested, don't generalize. generalizing can become very destructive. unless you're talking about albinos. ha ha.

[zogjones]

Dogwillhunt--you're right. ramones never sang about superficial sheit like the "bling" rap that's so prevelant today. hiphop didn't start out like that--it became that just like punk became ****in' blink 182 and good charlotte. and by the way, RAP doesn't stand for anything as far as i know; like i suggested, don't generalize. generalizing can become very destructive. unless you're talking about albinos. ha ha.

[Maggot penis]

INTERESTING

[risen_against]

I grew up listening to rock and i do listen to alot of hip hop and punk. The "bling", "f*ck bitches" kind of hip hop is not what applies here. I think what ties the two together is the LIFESTYLE aspect. Not that either lifestyle is one in the same, but that roots of the music come from rebellious, young minds that often deal with some sort of personal struggle. I wouldnt agree that punk and hip hop are cousins, but that they evolved in the same manner from different styles of music.

[EbolaMonkeh]

Word.

Most people don't realize this, but when hip hop was first starting out in the 70's, a lot of punks loved it. In fact, the Beastie Boys got their start as a punk outfit. Then they started hearing hip hop records in punk clubs and decided they couldn't get enough. Hip hop and rock were never "enemies" until a bunch of closed minded clowns (on both sides) decided they were only going to enjoy one kind of music. (and thanks to the bling bling era) Public Enemy have toured with Anthrax and U2, Run-DMC famously worked with Aerosmith, and of course there's the mighty Rage Against the Machine. For a current act that combines hip hop and rock, check P.O.S. The dude is ****ing amazing. And he, too, started off as a punk.

Calling hip hop "rap" is like calling pop music "sing" or rock music "play guitar". There are four elements of hip hop: Djing, MCing (rapping), breakdancing, and graffiti. DJing and MCing are what make up hip hop music.

There are plenty of rappers who talk about way deeper shit than any of the garbage rock-radio bands out there today. Immortal Technique, P.O.S., Cannibal Ox, Saul Williams, Atmosphere, The Roots, Juggaknots, Jean Grae, Public Enemy, RATM, Blackalicious, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Brother Ali, Common, Grayskul, Last Emperor..... Idiots like 50-cent and P. Diddy aren't hip hop, they're pop. Period. They are to hip hop what blink-182 are to punk.

[Bloodthirster]

I gotta say y'know i dont mind like all the old hip-hop like rappers delight i mean wat a song.

[Bloodthirster]

But since the new stuff about like being a gangster and having all the bling bling shit has come up i started listning to rock as the mainstream is full of it manly due to chavs. By the way good article i think you've opened a few peoples minds there.

[Riotface]

There is a good Punk/Hip-Hop band from Russia called Hoods Up 495. Also I dunno how punk has origins in the 1940's or whatever, maybe 60's max. Unless you think punk is just teenage rebellion... but then that's just stupid. And nah Punk isn't smarter than Hip-Hop or vice versa, they both have their underground scenes which maintain integrity and revolutionary aspects. Politics kinda got me into some rap in the first place, I really like anarcho-punk so I searched for more politically oriented music and came across Public Enemy and Dead Prez.

[SourSarah]

well you are right dude.
i've never hated hiphop nor punk. hell no.
i LOVE public enemy just as much as i LOVE i the uk subs (just an example, so many good punk bands).
i totally agree with EbolaMonkeh when s/he says:

Idiots like 50-cent and P. Diddy aren't hip hop, they're pop. Period. They are to hip hop what blink-182 are to punk.

That's true! And most of the stuff that Public Enemy sings is really really similar to what so many punk bands sing. Titles like "fight the power", "rebel without a pause" could be suitable for any punk band (with punk band i mean bands that ARE punk). And it's not just public enemy. other hiphop groups do.
I'm not gonna say some stuff coz it will be like repeating EbolaMonkeh's words, and i totally agree with him/her. s/he made a good point in the second paragraph of her comment.
for those who don't agree with what stated in this column, here and in the comments, well just take me as an example. now, i DO NOT want to show off, i swear, i m not that kinda person. i'm just gonna talk about my personal expierience.
I picked up punk when i was 9 and hiphop when i was about 12. last year i started breakdance (and i still love it even though im not a b-girl anymore) and i play guitar, rock guitar. and skate. people say the things dont fit together. but theyre wrong. they do. and im cool with being both in the local hiphop scene and the local skate and alternative scene.
some of the skaters that i hang out with are b-boys. awkward? i dont think so.
well enough for this. i'm repeating myself like an echo.
An_anvil_tree made a good choice when he decided to post this.


RATM rocks!

[kecua]

An_anvil_tree You have no clue what punk is about. It's anti-government, anti-corporations, anti-mainstream, and anti-society. It's about going against the rules of society, questioning the government, and not selling out to the corporate bastards. Fuck you

[Emopunk824]

kecua :
An_anvil_tree You have no clue what punk is about. It's anti-government, anti-corporations, anti-mainstream, and anti-society. It's about going against the rules of society, questioning the government, and not selling out to the corporate bastards. Fuck you
POSTED: 07/09/2006 - 12:59 pm / quote |


Right on man i aggree 100 percent n Outcast isnt punk

[SexyVeganChick]

^ ^ You make it seem as though it's being anti just for the sake of it, it's because the morality of those things are not right.

Many punk songs actually have raps in them. The song "Bricks" by Rise Against could be considered a "freestyle" with music.

[david-arias]

I see someone likes Cannibal Ox :P

[cake777]

well, yes. they both had the passion & the anger.
KEYWORD: HAD.

man, i hate it how people redefined hip-hop & punk now a days.

[Wood & Metal]

Isn't "My Generation" by the Who a pretty good example of early/proto punk-rock? That one came out in the mid 60's.

[bazman13]

punk also started a kickback from all these guitar gods like hendrix playing stuff so amazing that you couldnt just pick up a gat and start a band, you would need to pracitse for years, punk was a response to that. i dont think hip-hop had the same kinda thing going on in that way but you make a very valid point.

fight the powers that be
i wanna be anarchy

[D-ROB]

NICE. very well written and you really got the point out. at first i was thinking this guy is out of it, how the hell would 'hip-hop' come from punk, buy you explained it well.
appreciate it.
peaz

[D-ROB]

NICE. very well written and you really got the point out. at first i was thinking this guy is out of it, how the hell would 'hip-hop' come from punk, buy you explained it well.
appreciate it.
peaz