Shoegazing When The Floor Was Limit

Shoegazing

Take yourself back to 1988. Joe Bloggs gear was all the rage, and it was still cool to wear shell-suit tracksuits. Synthesizers were the scourge of the airwaves, and the Iron Curtain was lifted, signalling the end of the cold war. In the late 80’s Glam Hair Metal and Electro Synth Pop ruled the roost. Many Indie, Alternative, and Rock bands were languishing out of the limelight in the ‘uncool’ sector of the music industry. It seemed to be popular, bands were required to have a guitarist that could unleash at least three light speed finger-tapping solo’s, along with a multitude of sweep picked arpeggio riffs, and neo-classical shredding, or a dark mysterious vocalist, armed with only a synthesizer and a troubled past. Generally speaking music was more about image than innovation, with bouffant hair, heavy makeup and tight leather cat suits, and that was only the men.

Indeed exceedingly complex lead guitar dominated so strongly, that songs and the musical scenes such as Grunge that directly followed suffered greatly. However Grunge and its contribution to the killing of masturbation on a guitar, then out of the garages of the Thames Valley came Shoegazing, so called because of the band’s guitarist’s apparent obsession with what was at their feet: their shoes, and their effects pedals. Shoegazing spat in the face of these over-enthusiastic shredders, with dual rhythm guitars being used in most key bands. The bastard lovechild of New Wave, Ambiance and Noise Rock, Shoegaze was formed with a no-nonsense tidal wave of droning, muddy over-fuzzed riffs, soft harmonious vocals, and so many sounds you didn’t think anyone could ever coax out of a guitar. The complex melodic vocals and dual rhythm guitars give a swirling, muddy yet also bright, jangling sound. This style of music was started by bands like The Jesus and Mary Chain, Sonic Youth and Dinosaur Jr. then crafted to a fine art by My Bloody Valentine, Ride, Lush and Swervedriver. Shoegaze bands had no particular image, and the genre is often known as ‘The scene that celebrates itself’ with many bands attending each others gigs.

The definitive opener for this genre was ‘Isn’t Anything’ by My Bloody Valentine; however the archetypal Shoegaze album is the critically acclaimed ‘Loveless’ by My Bloody Valentine. Other notable albums are ‘Nowhere’ by Ride, and ‘Psychocandy’ by The Jesus and Mary Chain.

The heavily distorted, dry, oblique guitar sound that is synonymous with Shoegazing comes from the use of the Fuzz Box, notably the Fender Blender, and the Electro-Harmonix Big Muff ?. Guitarists like Kevin Shields, Billy Corgan and Andy Bell paved the way with this sound, and adding their trademark, such as Shields’ liberal and unique use of a tremolo and Reverse Reverb, and Bell’s complex use of Wah, feedback and dual rhythm guitars along with other Ride guitarist Mark Gardener. Most bands employed a Phil Spectre Wall of Sound technique for recording, as it gave a thicker, denser sound, along with strategic, and often experimental placing of microphones, and many other studio techniques such as overdubbing of guitars and sampling.

Forerunners

Sonic Youth

Sonic Youth were formed in New York City in 1981 by Thurston Moore, Kim Gordon, Ann DeMarinis (replaced in 1981 by Lee Ranaldo) and Richard Edson.

In their early career, Sonic Youth were linked with the No Wave Art scene in New York City, but have outlived most of their peers and paralleled bands. Their music has since been described as Punk, and they have been included with the first wave of post-punk bands. They have gained modest mainstream success, and are generally seen as one of the leading alternative rock groups of their time, gaining much more than critical acclaim in the underground circuit, and hailed as one of the most important bands in Rock, though they shatter the narrow confines of the genre.

Inspired primarily by the noise experimentation of Glenn Branca and The Velvet Underground, as well as the heavy, raw garage rock of The Stooges they are renowned for utilizing unorthodox guitar tunings, and for applying screwdrivers or other preparations to guitars to alter the instruments' timbre, such as running an electric drill through a Wah pedal, or hitting a guitar with a drum stick to create the tone of church bells, in an relentless guitar assault.

There is an abundance of collaborative musical material recorded and/or performed with other artists and side-projects. Sonic Youth can in many ways be said to be an artistic collective just as much as a traditional rock/pop band.

The Jesus And Mary Chain

The Jesus And Mary Chain were a Scottish Indie Rock/Noise, formed in East Kilbride in early 1884. The band that evolved around the songwriting collaboration of brothers Jim and William Reid, but also featured Douglas Hart and Murray Dalgliesh (who was swiftly replaced by future Primal Scream singer Bobby Gillespie).

Their sound derives from Noise Rock and Post Rock bands, such as Big Black and Slint, with influences of Twee Pop, and more than a passing resemblance to Cocteau Twins.

The musical press sung their praises, however it was their live performances that got the most attention and gained notoriety. The Mary Chain's earlier performances have become the stuff of legend in Indie circles. Playing in front of small audiences, the Mary Chain earned their notoriety by playing very brief gigs, some lasting no more than 10 minutes and consisting of a constant barrage of feedback and distortion, as well as playing with their backs to the audience and refusing to interact with them. Many shows climaxed with the Reids destroying their equipment, and riots in the audience ensued. All of this publicity delighted manager and Creation Records boss Alan McGee, who saw it as a great opportunity for the band to get much needed exposure. He would simply ensure people from the music press were present while these events naturally transpired, and so guaranteeing heavy coverage in the musical press. The violence that seemed to follow the band culminated in an event that is now regarded as Indie Folklore.

On March 15, 1985, the band played a show at the North London Polytechnic in front of one of their largest crowds up to that point. Supporting band Meat Whiplash had already stirred up violence before the Mary Chain even set foot onto the stage by throwing a bottle back into the audience when it was thrown at them. By the time the Mary Chain started their short set, the audience was already raging for violence and because of the size of the audience, and the riot that occurred was far bigger and wilder than any other that had occurred at a Mary Chain gig. The musical press were present at the gig, and this event consequently became referred to as ‘The Jesus and Mary Chain Riot’.

In The Thick Of It

My Bloody Valentine

My Bloody Valentine formed in Dublin in 1984, and consisted of Kevin Shields, Colm O'Ciosoig, Debbie Googe and Bilinda Butcher. Their thick, churning, layered sound came courtesy of perfectionist and guitar genius Kevin Shields, and Bilinda Googe, armed to the teeth with enough effects pedals to sink a ship. They were dubbed Shoegaze, due to the current wave of British bands using heavily distorted guitars, and soft, hushed vocals not different to those by Bilinda Butcher, which created a strange contrast between harsh and abrasive, and calm and tranquil. One critic called their music ‘Beauty under siege’ which Their first album ‘Isn’t Anything’ released in 1988 pioneered the Shoegaze movement, wearing its Cocteau Twins and The Jesus and Mary Chain influences firmly on its sleeve. Colm’s drumming is much more spastic and reminiscent of thrashy punk rhythm, Debbie Googe’s bass is hardly discernable, and the guitars are very coarse and abrasive, which is only a fraction of what was to come on ‘Loveless’.

‘Isn’t Anything’ paved the way perfectly for the critically acclaimed ‘Loveless’ released in 1991 which gained the title best album of the 1990’s, and was such a hard act to follow for reclusive perfectionist shields, that the band never released another album. You only have to listen to three seconds of ‘Only Shallow’ to realize that the album is the epitome of Shoegazing. The unique recording processes and techniques employed by Shields and his team of 16 sound engineers, created a wall of sound effect, and copious overdubbing, and backwards sampling gave the guitars a merged, multi layered effect, with the bass lying fairly low, and the vocals similarly low, and often breathy and high pitched.

The Band disintegrated around 1994, after Debbie Googe moved on to form Snowpony, as she had not played bass on their recordings since ‘You Made Me Realise’. Colm O'Ciosoig eventually left and recorded an album with Hope Sandoval of Mazzy Star. Kevin Shields occasionally worked with other artists, notably Curve, and Primal Scream. He eventually revealed in 2003 on a public radio interview that Island Records had stopped financing his My Bloody Valentine work after he spent £500,000 of their money, and dragged them close to bankruptcy.

Ride

Ride were formed in Oxford by Andy Bell, Mark Gardener, Laurence Colbert and Steve Queralt in 1988. Their sound is very much derived in their use of the twin rhythm guitars of Bell and Gardener, both heavily distorted, both using Wah pedals, and both feeding back off each other.

‘Nowhere’ was the debut album by ride, and is considered second only to ‘Loveless’ in the greatest Shoegaze albums, including the track ‘Seagull’; a shimmering mass of jangly rhythm guitars and piercing feedback.

The band matured quickly after the release of ‘Nowhere’ and now started to include influences of Neil Young, however they still couldn’t gain mainstream success, and eventually were forgotten with the coming of the Britpop movement. Tensions were now running high in the band, particularly between Bell and gardener, and in 1995 during the recording of Tarantula the band dissolved due to musical and personal difficulties between Gardener and Bell.

Bell moved on to form Britpop band Hurricane #1, however this was permanently disbanded when he was asked to play bass in Oasis in 1999. Mark Gardener and Laurence Colbert collaborated to form the short-lived The Animalhouse. Gardener also toured as a solo artist, and Colbert also plays for a Bob Dylan tribute band called The Zimmermen. Queralt has retired from professional music and was last seen working in retail management for Habitat in Cumnor in Oxford.

Since the break-up, both Bell and Gardener have reflected on the group's dissolution, with Bell especially admitting a large part in the process. In the end it appears that they were too young and too obstinate and had no real idea of where the band would head when they changed their style.

Slowdive

Slowdive were a shoegazing band formed in 1989, and lasting until 1995. They formed in Reading, Berkshire and signed to Creation Records in the UK. The band consisted of Rachel Goswell, Neil Halstead, Nick Chaplin, Christian Savill, originally Adrian Sell, who was replaced by Simon Scott in 1989, who was subsequently substituted by Ian McCutcheon in 1994. Goswell and Halstead had known each other since early childhood in Reading, Berkshire.

They released some of their initial demos as the ‘Slowdive EP’ in late 1990. Their sound was heavily influenced by the Cocteau Twins and Creation Records label mates My Bloody Valentine, especially their gratuitous use of distortion, guitar effects and muted vocals.

Their debut album ‘Just for a Day’ was written and recorded in six weeks, and was felt to be a let down, after the significant success of the previous three EP’s. However ‘Just for a Day’ had and has its own strange, displaced beauty and attraction. It is by far the most light and dreamy of their albums, which spurred the lighter version of Shoegaze; Dream Pop. Yet it also combines white noise with this cloudiness, along with the crushing distortion that was synonymous with Shoegaze bands, and also incorporating lush harmonics and great sustained notes. White noise was a technique that was rarely used by Shoegaze bands; though it shows their roots in Noise Rock bands like Big Black and Scratch Acid. The only misjudgment they made was that they tried to cover up missing musical parts by drenching a song in white noise.

Subsequently, the UK music press had started to pick up on the American Seattle grunge scene, and the more pensive and experimental sounds of Slowdive, label mates Ride, Chapterhouse and other Shoegaze bands disappeared from the limelight. American label SBK postponed the release of the album after a disastrous viral marketing campaign (involving vandalism of a public statue) and in early 1992 the band toured the U.S.A. with Ride, returning to the U.K. fresh to record a second album. They were renowned for their pounding, thrashing, live performances, pelting into their songs, amps cranked. In studio, they combined that with just enough restraint to experiment, and try something different.

Slowdive were dropped by Creation in 1995, a week after the release of fourth album ‘Pygmalion’ Halstead had been cautioned before the recording of the album that the contract with the label would be terminated unless he delivered a Pop album.

After being dropped from Creation, Neil Halstead, Rachel Goswell and Ian McCutcheon recorded an album of country-influenced songs, and were signed to label 4AD, changing the band name to Mojave 3. Both have also released solo albums for 4AD. Christian Savill formed Monster Movie, a dream pop band that picked up and continued to evolve from where Slowdive left off. In 2004, Simon Scott created Televise, a group which stripped back the lengthy swells of noise and feedback and experimental song structures that defined Shoegaze to focus on a more radio-friendly, commercial brand of Indie Rock.

The Future Of Shoegaze

Following the ultimate demise of the first wave of Shoegaze bands, who eventually
disappeared in the early to mid 1990’s a new breed of Shoegazers, affectionately known as Nu-Gaze have emerged, taking the heart, soul and inspiration from the original bands, and taking it to new levels.

A few bands that fit under this tag are Autolux, M83, Bethany Curve, Televise and Joy Zipper. The Nu-Gazing scene is strong within its own community, reviving the phrase ‘The scene that celebrates itself’, which was once used on their forerunners. New record labels, such as The Gaia Project, and Bella Union are facilitating this new wave of Shoegaze bands, which is gaining in popularity on both sides of the Atlantic, particularly in South America.

So, if you feel like forming a Shoegaze band, stock up on Modulation pedals, tools, more fuzz than you can shake a stick at, and at least one copy of ‘Loveless’ and you will have a sporting chance.

Comments

[zebrahead234]

first, and pretty darn long good tho

[Greenfinger182]

2nd. Good little (or long) article. Pretty informative.

[Atreideslegend]

*is sick of all the ridiculous genres people are coming up with these days* shoegaze is not a real ****ing genre, if u can find any real evidence of the categorization of bands as "shoegaze" from the source (ie, the music industry) then i would be interested to see it. This article is pointless...

[FS01]

quite good, a bit long though, you should have included minimalism and post-rock

[YourLastAffront]

*is sick of all the ridiculous genres people are coming up with these days* shoegaze is not a real ****ing genre, if u can find any real evidence of the categorization of bands as "shoegaze" from the source (ie, the music industry) then i would be interested to see it. This article is pointless...

Maybe you should learn about music before you decide to judge my article, you clearly know **** all. And FS01, yeah i thought about putting post rock in, but i felt it would make it a bit longer, though i do love post rock, Spiderland is possibly my Favourite album of all time.

[PTN_DK]

So, if your playing sucks and you've got absolutely no talent at all... Cover it with noise and effects and call it Shoegaze. Oh well, that was just my opinion...

[YourLastAffront]

So, if your playing sucks and you've got absolutely no talent at all... Cover it with noise and effects and call it Shoegaze. Oh well, that was just my opinion...

Kevin Shields is one of the most meticulous and talented guitarists of all time. Just becuase he uses a lot of effects doesnt mean he cant play. Your opinion is small minded, try listening to 'Only Shallow' by My Bloody Valentine, it will open your eyes.

[Jackolas]

I'm from Reading (haha fancy it being mentioned here) and the music scene is dire.

[YourLastAffront]

In Reading? Or Shoegazing?

[DorkusMalorkus]

Hurray for Sonic Youth, MBV and Jesus and the Mary Chain!

A bit too long of an article...good job though.

[Rocker3829]

Good article, informative on a music scene many people don't know about. I'll be honest I had no idea about this genre. All I ever knew was just grunge out of the early 90's. Quick question though, so basically this was the "underground" music to Grunge, kind of like today with metal being the "underground" to mainstream rock? I'm not sure if thats a good analogy or not, but if you could give me a better one i'd appriciate it.

[Nirvana_RATM2]

i will agree , when i tend to see a big pedal board I usually regard the person with little or no talent. I mean sure get some chorus , dealy , distortion , wah you know 4-5 pedals. I mean really Omar Rod-Lopez is just retarded, 200+ pedals. Just play the damn guitar man!

[5ironaudiorage]

Masturbation of guitar? Wtf does that mean.

[pumpkins_rule]

^It means playing unessecarily long and complex solos just for the purpose of showing off. See Steve Vai, Ygniwi Malsteem, Satriani etc.

[liesofautumn]

^^who are you to say that the solos of the aforementioned artists(Vai,Malmsteen,Sat
riani) were unecessarily long?

[Let it Happen]

hey man, great work on the article! keep it up, keep writing. i liked the way how it was so well researched(unless that was all off the top of your head?) Seems like pretty original music, maybe i'll give it a shot.

[4satin]

there you go. teach some of these new kids on REAL music.

[zebrahead234]

pumpkins_rule :
^It means playing unessecarily long and complex solos just for the purpose of showing off. See Steve Vai, Ygniwi Malsteem, Satriani etc.

malmsteen probably, but steve vai and joe satriani have come up with some incredibly simple melodies

ex, parts of satriani's The Extremist

[8dmsguitar]

I love shoegazing.
Anyone who says that it's talentless can go die. And personally, I can't stand guitar 'masturbation'.

[Nolan Whyte]

I'm not sure if you're helping yourself by sitting at the computer and arguing with (or insulting) every person who comments on your article. You have a right to post it, and they have a right to critique it (intelligently or not).

[DorkusMalorkus]

liesofautumn wrote:

^^who are you to say that the solos of the aforementioned artists(Vai,Malmsteen,Sat

riani) were unecessarily long?

He isn't really anyone to say that, but then again, no one is...It is called an opinion...one that I agree with.

[Let it Happen]

pumpkins_rule wrote:

^It means playing unessecarily long and complex solos just for the purpose of showing off. See Steve Vai, Ygniwi Malsteem, Satriani etc.

dude, if I could play like they could, i'd show off too. wouldn't you? i'm not saying i'm a big fan or anything, but they have tons of skill. i personally wouldn't call it "masturbating on the guitar." maybe more like mastering the guitar, for they are true masters of their instruments.

[ShredFreak101]

this was such an amazing column. thank u for writing it. I have recently gotten into my bloody valentine and tried 2 find other bands like it and this helped a lot.

[DorkusMalorkus]

Let it Happen wrote:

pumpkins_rule wrote:

^It means playing unessecarily long and complex solos just for the purpose of showing off. See Steve Vai, Ygniwi Malsteem, Satriani etc.
dude, if I could play like they could, i'd show off too. wouldn't you? i'm not saying i'm a big fan or anything, but they have tons of skill. i personally wouldn't call it "masturbating on the guitar." maybe more like mastering the guitar, for they are true masters of their instruments.

But there is a difference between being masters at your instrument and making good music. Then again...it is all subjective. We don't like all the boring complicated playing, we like innovative sounds and good music...for some people the playing might be the good music.

[Let it Happen]

to YourLastAffront, or to anybody who knows, could someone clarify what the difference is between shoegazing and grunge?

[psychodelia]

Not something I would play, but interesing... wouldve liked to see more about Dinosaur Jr. Still good.

[Let it Happen]

DorkusMalorkus wrote:

Let it Happen wrote:

pumpkins_rule wrote:

^It means playing unessecarily long and complex solos just for the purpose of showing off. See Steve Vai, Ygniwi Malsteem, Satriani etc.
dude, if I could play like they could, i'd show off too. wouldn't you? i'm not saying i'm a big fan or anything, but they have tons of skill. i personally wouldn't call it "masturbating on the guitar." maybe more like mastering the guitar, for they are true masters of their instruments.


But there is a difference between being masters at your instrument and making good music. Then again...it is all subjective. We don't like all the boring complicated playing, we like innovative sounds and good music...for some people the playing might be the good music.

I totally agree with you. I personally can't take that constant shredding crap for more than ten minutes. Complicated playing does not necessarily make a song good. For a personal example, I like Nirvana more than Malmsteem (what a prick!)

[YourLastAffront]

Well, have you heard any shoegazing? The lyrics are really soft and melodic, nothing like the manic crooning of Vedder, Cornell or Cobain. Also the guitarists tend to use effects differently, and they are recorded a lot differently, shoegazing is recorded similarly to In Utero, with strategically placed mics and the band playing all at the same time. Shoegazing song topics (especially My Bloody Valentine) are about love, and have a dreamy air about them. The differences are endless, though if you are a fan of Grunge, there is a possibility that you will like shoegazing; that is if you aren't small minded, and want to explore a little.

[YourLastAffront]

Not something I would play, but interesing... wouldve liked to see more about Dinosaur Jr. Still good.

I was going to write more about them, particularly as their first tour of the uk was so influential in the movement, but i felt i was going overboard enough on words, particularly as this started life as my A-Level coursework, though good point, they shouldn't be overlooked.

[Unseen_hero]

www.insound.com has a bunch of classic shoegaze albums on their 'sound savers' list for under 10 bucks. Check it out if you're interested.

I've never been hugely into the genre, but I like it. I never knew where the name came from until now.

[Dirtydeeds468]

YourLastAffront wrote:

Well, have you heard any shoegazing? The lyrics are really soft and melodic, nothing like the manic crooning of Vedder, Cornell or Cobain.

Hmmm...I really wouldn't call Alice in Chains grunge, if you compare them to Nirvana or Pearl Jam, there's not much in common...

[thefinalcut]

Shoegazing does sound like a BS name for a genre, really. I'm not denying it exists but the name makes it sound like it's a term made up by alternative "outsiders" to set themselves apart from the labels put onto them by the "industry". Otherwise they'd be known as alternative/noise rock or whatever.

Anyroad, proper article, althoug a bit long though!

[thefinalcut]

Dirtydeeds468 wrote:

Hmmm...I really wouldn't call Alice in Chains grunge, if you compare them to Nirvana or Pearl Jam, there's not much in common...

^Sorry for the double post but the thing is that Nirvana and Pearl Jam don't sound that alike either!
Nirvana was way more punk rock based than Pearl Jam, who have a blues-rock lead guitarist!

[YourLastAffront]

Shoegazing does sound like a BS name for a genre, really. I'm not denying it exists but the name makes it sound like it's a term made up by alternative "outsiders" to set themselves apart from the labels put onto them by the "industry".

The name 'Shoegazing' was coined by the music press due to the guitarists habit of staring at downwards, at their shoes or effects pedals.

[YourLastAffront]

And thefinal cut, i agree with you, but they all fell under the category 'grunge' i mean theres intricacies and offshoots in every genre, and every band has different influences giving them a different sound. My Bloody Valentine and Ride both sound very different, but they both fall under shoegaze because of techniques and similarities in overall sound, such as soft vocals and heavily distorted guitars, though this doesn't apply all the time.

[X.Y.U]

these bands all rule!!!

[Nirvana_RATM2]

soft vocals and heavy guitars? Well thats so broad it could be ANYTHING! Meh , Ive never even heard of "shoe gazing". I woudlnt call it a genre , because each of the bands fell into a different genre. Its more of a guitar technique? or approach? Ex . Slash is a blues rock guitarist....

then ( guitarist from bloody valentine ) is a shoe gazer..

iono it sounds odd.

[maroon5mustdie]

That was one of the most beautifully written articles I've read. 10/10. I've heard of a lot of those bands through my resident indie record store, and I'm definitely going to check them out. Great Article.

[vanceboy]

Yet another genre...

[MorbidAngel333]

hey i love shoegazing and shred. two of my favorite genres.
so there.
seriously Kevin Shields is just as talented as eddie van halen.

(notice i didn't say malmsteen....)

[cleadus_134]

Good article. It was very informative, and on a genre I never knew existed. Good work.

[atc228]

not bad, but im pretty sure the "iron curtain" wasnt lifted 'till 90-91, not 88

[GrungeMonkey]

Quite interesting. Might get "Loveless" now...

[Jackolas]

I always thought my bloody valantine were basically emo screamo pop stupid name genre stuff!

[top_hat_rocker1]

Well written article, very informative. I had no idea what Nu-Gaze was before i read this. Sonic Youth and Dinosaur Jr. are both great bands, and anyone who says they have talent obviously has never tried playing some of their songs. Can't say ive ever eard any My Bloody Valentine, but i reckon i'll check it out now. The only problem with shoegazing is that the records are impossible to find where i live, Daydream Nation by Sonc Youth isn't even available in the most exclusive indie record stores. But anyway, good article, and a much better genre than any of that guitar masturbation, i wouldnt call them masters of their instrument, if they really had mastered their instruments, they'd write a riff or a melody that could hold my interest for more than 2 minutes.

[top_hat_rocker1]

and anyone who says they have talent obviously has never tried playing some of their songs.

btw, thats supposed to read 'anyone who says they have NO talent'

[jsatch87]

what a bunch of crap. i don't consider bands who stand there and just make noise musicians.

[4satin]

shoegaze and grunge are really different. shoegaze is more dreamy pop, but can still have that raw distorted sound. and stop saying they don't have talent. bands like Dinosaur Jr (not shoegaze, in the American Underground movement mixture of alternative and punk) make some of the best songs i've ever heard and most of their songs are very simple (maybe some of the solos are a bit hard). Nirvana's three main influences (Dinosaur Jr, Meat Puppets, Pixies) were apart of the AU movement. they owe A LOT to them.

I also must say that J Mascis is one of the best guitarists ever. Hendrix & Santana are great, but some of these independant guys need the credit they deserve.

sorry for being a bit off-topic for Shoegaze, but i had to let that out. you also should have mentioned Slowdive, another great shoegaze band.

[4satin]

AND noise is music. if you don't like it, you most likely need to listen to it more to understand it. listen to the Boredoms. My Bloody Valentine has noise underneath their songs that you can discover and its really beautiful stuff. Loveless builds around this. Kevin Shields is also a guitar genius. fact.

[4satin]

4satin wrote:

shoegaze and grunge are really different. shoegaze is more dreamy pop, but can still have that raw distorted sound. and stop saying they don't have talent. bands like Dinosaur Jr (not shoegaze, in the American Underground movement mixture of alternative and punk) make some of the best songs i've ever heard and most of their songs are very simple (maybe some of the solos are a bit hard). Nirvana's three main influences (Dinosaur Jr, Meat Puppets, Pixies) were apart of the AU movement. they owe A LOT to them.

I also must say that J Mascis is one of the best guitarists ever. Hendrix & Santana are great, but some of these independant guys need the credit they deserve.

sorry for being a bit off-topic for Shoegaze, but i had to let that out. you also should have mentioned Slowdive, another great shoegaze band.

i must be blind. you did mention slowdive. SORRY!

[stringmagician]

Jackolas wrote:

I always thought my bloody valantine were basically emo screamo pop stupid name genre stuff!

i think your thinking of my chemical romance

this article made me look into these shoegazers

oh yea, whoever told omar rodrigez lopez to just play the guitar, even without the effects hes an amazing player

[Jonte_T]

Haha, jesus & mary chain was formed in 1881..

[Jonte_T]

84..

[watchurback]

Shoegaze takes talent, granted. However, the guitarist's of this genre are talented in a different way then say Satriani. This whole forum is just a lot of opinions mashed together, so there's not a point to arguing

[lukef]

Gotta love J+M Chain.

Great article.

[YourLastAffront]

Cheers for the feedback guys who understood it. The people who made stupid comments, and clearly have no clue about it...shut the hell up and buy Loveless. And the screamo band are Bullet For My Valentine, not My Bloody Valentine.

[YourLastAffront]

AND noise is music. if you don't like it, you most likely need to listen to it more to understand it. listen to the Boredoms. My Bloody Valentine has noise underneath their songs that you can discover and its really beautiful stuff. Loveless builds around this. Kevin Shields is also a guitar genius. fact.

Exactly, good points. Big Black and Scratch acid own bands like Poison and Motley Crus and all that shite in my opinion. Indeed Steve Albini is one of the best sound engineers of our time, try telling the guy who produced in Utero he doesnt know music. Noise rock has a lot more experimental nature than anything else, 10 minute solos make me sick unless theyre done with soul, all this clinical Trivium crap that every guitar magazine loves so much makes me sick.

[genresrforposer]

Personally I tend to like bands that do everything simpler and w/o many effects.

I like things that are just kind of raw a whole lot more than ppl who make music because they are "masters of their instruments". that tends to mean much less to me than "masters of songwriting."

for instance imo johnny cash> jerry lee lewis
nirvana> most more technically skilled bands.

im not hating on either one im just saying if a guy can pick up a guitar for tha first time n write sum simple but good songs that he really felt i wld like hearing it a lot better than listening to yngwie malmsteen finger **** a guitar for over 5 minutes.

[4satin]

masturbation of guitar, heh. some people do it good, so people do it terrible. Yngwie Malmsteen does it bad. but you hear some people like John Frusciante or Thurston Moore/Lee Ranaldo who beat the **** outta their guitar and they make some great sounds.

[iwishiwasafish]

So if guitar matsuration is showing off on the guitar.....soes that mean that you masturbate to show off?

[HeavyMetal_69]

Well i wouldn't damn well say yngwie, satriani or vai are "Show offs" as put once earlier, they tend to be able to express what they busted their asses off learning. It was a good article in all except for the "masturbation of Guitar" i mean WTF do you even know how hard it is to shred???

[VaiSatchLaiho]

Wow.... I hate this kind of music. I personally have no idea how being an idiot towards the audience makes you cool. Or how not having an technical skill makes you any better than an emotionless shredder too.

[4satin]

x_x

I don't think he said anything about them being emotionless.

and come on, Yngwie's guitar solos have no direction whatsoever. atleast guitarists like Hendrix, Gilmour, and Santana knew what they were doing.

[DorkusMalorkus]

Thurston Moore/Lee Ranaldo who beat the **** outta their guitar and they make some great sounds.

Best duo ever...

I need to look into these other bands...I love MBV...

[Diceman42]

Good article, bad topic.
I cant stand shoegazers(term used derisively) and their whiny music.

[lsw444]

Well written article, need more of that here. Interesting arguments opened up, too; I actually read most of the replies.
I hate 'shoegazing', though. Was around when I was at sixth form, couldnt see the attraction.

[pumpkins_rule]

Oh yeah, Kevin Shields is more creative then any wanker guitarist will ever be.

[GlamSpam]

lol I hate shoegazers....don't make your music so complicated.

[Spawn2]

Well,

In my opinion, people are too direct in choosing their music. I think that you should listen to as much music as you can.
I think it adds a great value to yourself as a person.
I tend to like a great deal of stuff: Santana, Vai, Zappa, VanHalen, Vangelis (conquest of paradise/chariots of fire) but also many non-rock stuff....
I think all sorts of music have inspiration in them and you should try to make as much use of it as you can.
Sure, I listen to rock mostly (hey I'm a guitarist) but listening to rap, r&b, blues, jazz, classical music is very important if you want to develop your own style and opinion.
I'm not saying everyone should like everything they listen to, but listening to as much as you can is part of your own musical development...

[cap'nkirk]

Well, I'm a fan of all music, I don't see why there's such a "rivalry" being shoegazers and arena rockers. I like Van Halen and I like Sonic Youth. lol, the trick is combining the too. It's sort of been done to varying degrees. just live and let live people. Being open minded is the first trick in being a good musician.

[cap'nkirk]

also, Yngwie's more or less known for his cheesy style. He shouldn't be compared to guys like Vai, Satriani, Eddie Van Halen or anyone who plays guitar for that matter. Yeah, he can shred, but he's the prime example of what's lame about shredding.

[new_decade]

fans of shoegazing, have a listen to some early verve stuff such as a storm in heaven (if you havent already)

[DorkusMalorkus]

They don't drench themselves in sounds and use tons and tons of noise. They were just one of the (Great) American Indie Underground bands. Not shoegaze...they may have stayed out of the spotlight and looked at their shoes but that isn't shoegaze music...

[DorkusMalorkus]

Oddi Nocki...

...Wow...you got us beat...

[gregorisgod]

YourLastAffront :
Cheers for the feedback

Haha that's like a pun.

Good article about a bunch of good bands. I live in Scotland, 5 minutes from East Kilbride, and a depressing amount of people have never heard of them.

I thought this was really informative.

[Rock agnst Bush]

Dirtydeeds468 wrote:

YourLastAffront wrote:

Well, have you heard any shoegazing? The lyrics are really soft and melodic, nothing like the manic crooning of Vedder, Cornell or Cobain.


Hmmm...I really wouldn't call Alice in Chains grunge, if you compare them to Nirvana or Pearl Jam, there's not much in common...

ummm... no one mentioned alice in chains... those are the singers for pearl jam, sound garden, and nirvana...

[4satin]

falloutboy106 :
you kind of forgot to mention Pavement, which is probably the best example of the shoegazing genre ever to exist.

?????

Pavement is no way shoegaze. they're like lo-fi indie. shoegaze has those swirling phaser/flanger sounds with soft-hard to hear sweet vocals with a thick wall of sound.

pavement is great, though.

[robbie]

He's not forcing it on anyone you stupid arse, he's written the article to allow someone who might want to find out about it to do so. If you don't wanna know about it, don't read the article.

[Mikeoman]

I like bands that really get you fired up. Example: AC/DC. I know, Angus sometimes does his little showoff thing, but he doesn't do constant shredding, just these little repeating segments, sort of makes the audience go " Yeah... YEAH... YEEEEAHHH... YEEEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!!" That sort of thing. Kind of what I'd call " pep-rally playing", if you get what I mean.

Another good one: Tragically Hip. Its a good balance. He doesn't go crazy, but then again, it ain't all about power chords either.

Also, you need a good singer. A lot of the BEST, and I mean the BEST, most famous bands in the world have a good singer, someone with the human voice.

Thats kinda why I like playing rhythm as much as lead. When I do leads, sometimes I go on and the realize people get mad at me. I gotta stop doing that.

[4satin]

most 'famous' bands aren't my "favorite" bands. i don't care if they have the tightest line up, have platinum albums, are inducted in the wall of fame, i need to like the music.

[lindex]

Thanks to midi the gazing has been taken out of shoegazing.
Good article.
I feel this work speaks out for side of music not often represented on this site.

[Conko]

I think its cool all the different kinds of guitar music there are from shred-punk I love shoegaze,and grunge and all sorts of other things

JMC 1884?

[That_Pink_Queen]

A far as the solo wanking argument goes, shredding is excessive, no soloing is lame. I like a nice comprimse, give me some classic rock please.

[tragik]

When You Sleep by My Bloody Valentine off of Loveless features some of the coolest guitar effects on a single riff that I have ever heard. They play that same riff about 30 times in that one song and it sounds cool every time I hear that song.

[washingmachine]

Yeah! always glad to see sonic youth mentioned! Thurston Moore/Lee Ranaldo truely are revolutionary guitarists. Ive heard of shoegazing, but i must cofess i didnt know a lot about it. Very informative article. 10/10 dude!
Ps; to everyone that has a go at article writers please shut up, they deserve respect for taking time out to write them (loving the pic of billy corgan!)

[frsrblch]

Shoegazing? Cant say as Ive heard of it, but the local scene probably doesnt have it so thats not a suprise.

I enjoy the odd shred and the extended solo here and there, but Im not going to go calling these guys obscenities because they dont share my taste in music. Youre all a bunch of immature pricks.

[Room237]

Shoegaze is the best genre of all time...

[eastern_riffs]

The only band I've heard of in that list is Sonic Youth. Never even knew there was such a genre known as shoegazing..

But then again,I'm not into the music from 80s (excepting VH,Dire Straits and maybe Motorhead)and I'm definitely not into the 90s music scene.

The only reason I read this article was because the guy in the picture under this article heading looked like me!!I got curious n stuff lol..

*spam deleted.

[coastalricky]

My Vitriol...best shoegazer band out there (in my opinion best band ever)...why is no one talking about them?!!

[Room237]

Not saying one is better than the other but...I'd rather see an MBV show before Vai or any of those other dudes...Kevin Shields is my hero...3 cheers for sweet feedback and noise...

[ride111]

this article is really good. i really like JAMC and Ride are one of my favourite bands. andy bell is a really talented guitarist - dont know wat hes doing playing bass with oasis. nowhere is an immense album. vapour trail = classs

[ride111]

oh and werent the verve in around 93 shoegaze and dream pop?

[4satin]

yeah, A Storm in Heaven was shoegaze. great album.

[broken_bottles]

The official name of 'Shoegazing' was the Thames Valley Scene.

Just so you know.

[ride111]

yeah 4satin...i have a storm in heaven and it is absolutely class.... already there is a tune

[Jonny02]

origonal article, interesting. Teenage riot by sonic youth has one of the best riffs ever i think

[Spongerob47]

Wow. "masterbation" on a guitar"??? Come on, this music is an excuse for being untalented.....they call it "alternative". Yeah 10 million hardcore/emo/art school rock bullshit on MTV sounds REALLY "alternative".

[stukes 04]

DorkusMalorkus wrote:

Let it Happen wrote:

pumpkins_rule wrote:

^It means playing unessecarily long and complex solos just for the purpose of showing off. See Steve Vai, Ygniwi Malsteem, Satriani etc.
dude, if I could play like they could, i'd show off too. wouldn't you? i'm not saying i'm a big fan or anything, but they have tons of skill. i personally wouldn't call it "masturbating on the guitar." maybe more like mastering the guitar, for they are true masters of their instruments.


But there is a difference between being masters at your instrument and making good music. Then again...it is all subjective. We don't like all the boring complicated playing, we like innovative sounds and good music...for some people the playing might be the good music.

I agree. For myself, a solo done well can be very orgasmic so if a guy wants to masturbate is guitar i don't mind cuz i like the sound. but some people just want to hear a song without the other stuff and thats their own opinion. i don't like that this author stated his own dislikes/likes. keep your opinion to yourself when writing the articles.

[tangleofscars]

I love shoegaze. It is unique and powerful and full of atmosphere. But some people are far too desensitized to understand it. Not necessarily a bad thing but...
I love the new shoegaze bands more and more.
Autumn's Grey Solace, Tearwave, Love Spirals Downward, Mors Syphilitica. All introducing something new and beautiful to the mix. That is REAL complexity. The ability to create pictures and atmospheres, to bring forth actual substance throught the music. Otherwise what is it but empty notes?

[joeyramoney]

cool article, but you should have given spacemen three a mention and not dino jr.

[someloudthunder]

Jackolas wrote:

I always thought my bloody valantine were basically emo screamo pop stupid name genre stuff!

you must be thinking of bullet for my valentine

[sub]

Technical proficiency is the last refuge of the untalented. Fact is, most people are either too close-minded or too dumb to appreciate this type of music. But then again, most people have never had an original thought in their entire lives.

[FaceInTheSand]

Great article. Very informative, as I'd only really listened to post-rock, which seems to be the spiritual successor to this.

It's nice to see an author who just espouses the virtue of their favourite genre, and doesn't resort to making base insults of other genres - I've seen too many articles that say "emo/whatever can rim a giraffe because metal/blues/post-krautrock-deathfunk-infusioncore is so much better" with opinion presented as gospel and retorts along the line of "because ur a fag".

Good play, sir.

[arnob_oblique]

Gr8 article... never heard of the genre or the bands before i read it... n currently listening to Only Shallow.. whoever says the guitarists don have talents, plz come forward n make a sound like it....

[Randompzycho]

I believe that Smashing Pumpkins deserve mention.

[Randompzycho]

someloudthunder wrote:

Jackolas wrote:

I always thought my bloody valantine were basically emo screamo pop stupid name genre stuff!
you must be thinking of bullet for my valentine

thank you two for clarifying that for me

[CrabShrapnel]

MorbidAngel333 wrote:

hey i love shoegazing and shred. two of my favorite genres.
so there.
seriously Kevin Shields is just as talented as eddie van halen.

(notice i didn't say malmsteen....)

I'm calling BS. Prove it.

[CZ101]

CrabShrapnel wrote:

MorbidAngel333 wrote:

hey i love shoegazing and shred. two of my favorite genres.
so there.
seriously Kevin Shields is just as talented as eddie van halen.

(notice i didn't say malmsteen....)

I'm calling BS. Prove it.

Just found this thread - Nice article! Although I personally think of MBV as standing out in such a genre defying way that I mentally never lump them in with the proverbial "shoegaze" bands like Ride, Swervedriver, Lush, Pale Saints, Verve, Catherine Wheel, etc.

Regarding shredding and shoegazing - I can imagine something done in kind of an "Electric Counterpoint" (S.Reich) or "Koyaniskatsi"(P.Glass) - ish vein that could at once be "shred" and "shoegaze" together..

Well, more "shoegaze" than "shred," - but for those that know the music I'm referring to, you can imagine something akin to Godspeed or the Rachels (remixed, maybe)...

Anyway, MBV in my mind have more in common with Stereolab, Sonic Youth, The VU, and the Beatles than with those other aforementioned bands.