Why 'Goth' Music Is Untalented

When Rock N Roll was born, it was based around the guitar. Therefore when Rock bands play, they must have talented guitarists that can play in their own unique style. And so time continued through the years and the world saw talent such as Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Ritchie Blackmoore, Eddie Van Halen, Slash and most recently, Justin Hawkins. This list of lead guitarists includes some of the finest talent over the past 50 years. But somewhere along the line, their love for Rock N Roll was mocked. The introduction of Gothic music meant that anyone could make a song with only the help of 3 or 4 chords.

"But what about the Rolling Stones?" you ask. Yes, they did limit their use of chords, but they were undeniably a good band with a talented singer and catchy tunes. Again, their style was ruined! Somebody out there thought it was a good idea to use only a few chords with as much distortion as humanly possible. On top of that, they recruited singers unworth of a high school talent contest. Songs there made louder and singers screamed harder. So where did this all start? The closest record I could find was the introduction of Marylin Manson who was the first to cause controversy in persuading kids to rebel and sing lyrics about hating parents. This was later followed by the likes of Korn and Slipknot. When was the last time you saw Marylin Manson sit down on stage and play an accoustic? All the greats have done it at one point or another. Great guitarists use accoustics to break down songs. They even use double neck guitars, which probably symbolises a good band sinse all the greats have used them.

So why has Goth music ruined the Rock N Roll name? Well its lack of riffs, solo's, ability to hear what chords are being played and err talent! I would guess that the goth look was stolen from Guns N Roses, as they were significant for their black leather outfits and skull tattooes. But they were far from gothic. Goth's probably decided this was a cool way to look and when more musicians looking like them appeared, they typically followed them. This would be the point where leather wearers were into heavy suicidal talentless music and anyone wearing the slightest bit of colour was into dance music. If this keeps up, Rock N Roll will only be a memory of the old time greats. Todays music is Rock, but not Rock N Roll.

Thankfully things are slowly changing. More and more kids are starting to pick up guitars and learn songs like "Smoke On The Water" and "Sweet Child O Mine", or even "Stairway To Heaven". The emerging of The Darkness made people remember what it used to be like to listen to a good old fashioned song full of catchy riffs and speedy Solo's. Velvet Revolver are also bringing back the days of Rock N Roll. Solo's are starting to become cool again and hopefully, sooner or later, people will stop listening to bad music such as the ones mensioned at the beginning of this article. Forget about MTV and the dance music craze. If you want to save something, start at home first. You want to save music? Start by saving Rock N Roll!

Comments

[Mack56]

damn unregistered people. WE HAVE A COLUMN FORUM FOR A REASON. It's not there to look pretty. This is not an article or column, it's just a close-minded rant.

[Cyborg]

Another opinnion article... HIM are considered "Gothic Rock" (although i wouldn't) and they are awsome in my opinnion... Bands shouldn't be hated just because they might not have big solo's or use alot of chords. Its about what is catchy and stays in your mind. (Although some amazing guitarists will do that with anything). Another thing was comparing Justin Hawkins with Page, Hendrix, Slash etc... He is no-where near...

[FreebirdSolo]

Man, as much as I hate goths, this rant sucked.

[IndigoBanana]

well i don't like so called "goth music" at all, but i don't really think you should be ranting like that. People have the right to like whatever they want, and the talent you mention is only your interpretation. You can make some brilliant songs using very limited chords, and if the song captures an emotion or an atmosphere, THAT is talent. Doesn't mean you have to use double necked guitars or acoustics. "All the greats" you mention are just YOUR favourites who do the kinda music YOU like. Don't bring shit like this onto this site ever again.

[cool_geek_dude]

yeh i kinda agree with what ur sayin but ur goin about it the whole wrong way anyway not gonna rate this rant soz ps 3rd (wow never done that b4 it was so anticlimatic )

[fendermalmsteen]

This guy is an idiot, plain and simple.

The "goth" look was stolen from Guns n' Roses. Ha!

[quo_vadis]

u have the worst examples for bands and goth bands require alot more skill then these other bands u talked about like rolling stones, rolling stones suck so much it isn't funny, i doubt u even have half the skill to play a "goth" song so don't judge what u can't even do urself.

[Thegeetarnoob]

Dude, goths did NOT copy GnR. The Goth style of dressing is based on clothing that dates much farther back than the Guns.

[BrofUJu]

Id-i-ot

You're the dumbest person I've ever seen post on this site.

The singers are not all crappy. Take Cristina Scabbia of Lacuna Coil. She's one of the better vocalists out there today IMO. Another example would be Peter Steele of Type O Negative (I like his voice, I know some people probably don't).

Also, the Gothic culture is based on the Goths, who were a bunch of people living in the Middle Ages in Germany who helped kick the Roman Empire's ass.

[janecoffin27]

I don't like goths either but this rant is crap. Just because someone plays an acoustic or double-necked guitar doesn't make them or the band good.

[undead_bunny]

Oh god what an idiot....

[*Arch Dandy*]

This Guy Has A Very Closed Mind
ROCK and Roll Rules !!
And
GOTHS ROCK !!!

[StRuMm3r]

Who did let this stupid, close-minded and uninformed person post that rant in here? Just saying that you need to have solos and more than, I dunno, 6 different chords in a song, or play a double neck or accoustic guitar to be a good band... is a great proof that you're stupid and you don't know a fok about what music really is...

[DaveDaThrasha]

MY F.UCKIN GOD! this guy is such a biased son of a bitch.... To say "goth" music is talentless and not define "goth" music.... slipknot is not goth... thats nu-metal... an is still far more talented than most of the bands u mentioned before... i donno if this fag noticed it but its kinda hard to play in A with out a baritone an play those fast riffs like that.... then about talentless singers... that guy that was talkin bout christina scabbia... hell even the other guy in lacuna coil is pretty talented... further more... i kno a bunch of great bands... with great guitarists.. that never played an acoustic or doubleneck on stage.... slayer for one... an last time i checked kerry king an jeff hanneman are two fukin amazing guitarists whetehr ur like the music or not... now i will say all the crap u said bout page an hendrix an the stones kickin ass... yea thats good stuff.. but that doesnt mean their the greats... personally i think metallica whups all their asses any day... but thats what i think... so go an take what u think... an keep in ur lil box along with ur biased rants, cocksuckin ideas and stupid stereotyped images of goth ppl.. an jump off a ***ing cliff....

p.s. goth didnt come from gnr...its modeled after the middle ages civilization by the same name that kicked the roman empires ass... an more of a vampiric form of dressing.... an we just happen to like black... makes u look slimmer...

-- DAVE DA THRASHA

[Metalology]

I thought slayer was Death Metal? Anyways Dude what your saying is so wrong. Every form of music has a point and "goth" is still good. I dont know if I'm right but I view Ramstein as "goth" and even I think it has talent. Personaly I think the Stones aren't that great. Hendrix is cool but common you dont have to pull out ripping solos for a song to be good. Or play an acoustic. Even Steve Vai likes Korn! So if somone like him thinks Korn is cool, then there is obviously talent in it! I think goth is cool, even though im not one.

[ShoeLaces907]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but this album is pure stupidity.

Robert Smith, a goth singer, has more vocal talent and emotional depth in his pinky finger than Axl Rose does in his entire body. Just compare "Sweet Child Of Mine" to "Pictures of You". Then try to play "Pictures of you" and get in right very quickly. Or any of the Cure's songs for that matter. Yeah, gothic musicans are untalented. The fact that you used Manson, Korn, and Slipknot as examples just show how little you know about the subject. Why don't you get informed first and then you can be angry about something?

[Arucard]

so much wrong with that article. a) learn how to spell Marilyn, b) the bands you listened arent all goth, most of them werent, c) half of Mansons Holywood album was acoustic, and the acoustic stuff was really good, im not even a big fan but i liked it, plus the Cure are possibly the most famous goth band and they have loads of acoustic. plus i think Goth is a stupid label, its hard to define Goth music, its more of a fashion thing.
still, YOU ARE AN ASS

[Arucard]

also, as for mr shoe laces above my last post, Sweet Child Of Mine has nothin to do with Axl, hes a dick, Slash owns. and its harder to play than Pictures of You

[the_beastly_one]

This dude obviously needs slapped with a wet fish of some sort. Oh, and the first 'gothic' band to get seen I can think of were the Damned. The singer drove around in a hearse and wore lots of black etc. years before Guns 'n' Roses. Jesus fu ck, I don't even know how this article was allowed onto this site.

[psychodelia]

Why is it most of the worst articles are written by unregistered people... blah.

[dane9000]

Your an idiot....... First of all it is Marilyn Manson, and second he does do acoustic songs.

[amunspawn]

wtf! in the valley of the shadow of death, speed of pain. these are marilyn manson songs almost entirely acoustic. do some fukin research first dumbass

[ace_blaze]

i personally despise the whole gothic scene and think it's a bunch of dorks in black who have nothing better to do than be depressed.....but this article was stupid

[Veno]

anybody who puts justin hawkins in the same sentence as Jimmy MotherFucking Page needs to be shot.

this was one of the worse rants I've ever seen. hell it topped the idiot who wrote "What not to do when stating a band"....and that says a lot

[RainDog]

This is undoubtably one of the worst and least informed articles I have ever read on this site. Why do they even put crap like this up?

[Shoestick]

HOLY ************* **** HOW THE HELL DID THIS PIECE OF SHIT GET POSTED?

And Im not one to type in all caps either. Since when are uninformed ten year olds allowed to write? This is why the internet should be for people above 56 inches.

[)Eric(Draven]

Seriously. What is this? Go home.

[msierragtz]

I love rock and roll , I love the bands you mentiones i even like the darkness but dude...Your article sucked

[SingingSabre]

Why not let people listen to what they enjoy listening to?

[Eggy331]

no offense dude, but if ug allowed a rating below 1, i would give you 1 below that. first of all, you didnt mention one goth band in your article. manson used to think he was goth, but he grew out of it. second, your statement about none of those bands having solos or accoustic is painfully incorrect. as many people have already stated, manson has alotta accoustic, and slipknot's newest album has some accoustic songs, and killer solos. might wanna lay low and not write another article until people forget about this one o.O

[im not mental]

listen to the new slipknot. solos? yes. acoustics? yes. talented rhythm guitar riffs? yes.

[noops]

you are a tool. do not write more articles.

[Necronomicon]

Hahahaha you are a retard. Its a good thing you're unregistered or you'd get so much hatemail. Gothic music is some of the most talented music ever. Gothic music is mainly metal. Also, the gothic style has nothing to do with Guns 'n Roses, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. The gothic style comes from, as that guy said, the Gothic civilization. It also comes more from the Rennaissance age as well. I bet you couldnt play one solo from any of the bands I listen to. Pathetic.

[Necronomicon]

Also, Marilyn Manson does not play guitar.

[thePUNISHER]

i like korn(self titled, follow the leader) but we do need to bring back the old stuff

[nofxpunkrocker]

the cure are goth. and if your say they aren't talented, i will proceed to fong you.

[BoxcarSkater]

wtf......dude youre saying Justin Hawkins is like the Jesus of real rock....he might dress weird and stuff but hes just like what you were saying about..."goth rock"...he just acts like that to be cool. by the way my friend saw the darkness a while back and i asked him if they played acoustic after i read this....they didnt

[peter_2004]

IDIOT!

[mötorbread]

This has got to be a joke, I mean c'mon, marilyn manson inventing adolescent rebellion screaming? Either this guy is some depends wearing 55+ year old still moaning over 8 track, or its a hell of a comedian

[dandynik]

i hate goth rock too, but your article sucks.

[rhcpcure2826]

you misrepresent goth haters everywhere

[Ucman3000]

you didnt use very good points, because there are much better reasons to hate goth music. guns n roses started goth? marylin manson was the first person to rebel against parents? altho marilyn is a flaming fag and should get no money for the work he does, you're still wrong.

[Lint]

so when you say goth music is bad i assume your inculding the cure
















ass wipe



please crawl in a whole and die, we are all stupider for having read this bias article

[Valhalla]

Im sorry but ALICE COOPER was the first to explore into the "gothic" area.

[rockjock2552]

what a ***ing *** you *** how could you say that ***ing shit you ***ing dusch bag

[Duke_Fan]

baaddddd idea postin this... lotta goths here at UG ... though im not goth

[RatiugLink]

I hate "Goths" too. But you seenm to have the wrong definition of "Goth". You also do not back yourself up whatsoever.

Goth in the true sense of the word I have no problem with.

[bass_maiden]

Wow...that was one long rant.
You're also very judgemental, ever heard the 'don't judge a book by it's cover' ?
Not all goth music is suicidal, Manson doesn't play guitar and even though I don't really like him, and they 'only use four chords' he has some catchy songs...
And if you're ever gonna do another closed-minded rant, do some ***ing research first!

[dangerlives]

Jackass

[Damicksta2k]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHH! Why do people continuously misuse the word "goth"?

Slipknot, Korn, Manson etc are not examples of gothic music. People who like these bands are not necessarily "goths". Just because you dress in black does not make you a "goth". People have been correct to mention The Cure as an example of a Gothic band (although saying this the band themselves denied that they should have this title), do they sound anything like these bands?

Don't get me started, i could go on for hours about people who consider themselves "goths" but really are offending those from the original gothic period of the late '80s - early '90s (notice that the period has since ended, and has not been resurrected).

As for the idiot who wrote this, lets hope for your sake as well as everyone elses that you stay unregistered.

[Chocolate Balls]

I agree, that the new bands make simpler music, and that some bands could benefit by writing solo's. But still, a lot of bands can get away with that. Instead, they fill in that blank spot with their looks and style's. You have to agree, that video's and concerts made by today's bands, are far more advanced and they just look better. Look at Rammstein for example; their songs are rather simple, they use almoust no solo's, even if they do, they are basically the same, only slightly modified. But yet, they make up for that by giving unbelievable concerts. So, what you've said, is not always true.

[MadSchecterGTR]

Dude this was one of the sh!ttiest articles I've read in awhile. Having an amazing guitar playing doesn't make your band the best. Having a good band makes your music good.

[foofighter8989]

I'd rather listen to the Cure than Deep Purple.

[Me09]

I hate rants. I hate nu metal, for the most part. Marilyn Manson, Korn, and Slipknot are nu metal. Gothic I would say Cradle of Filth. They dont suck. Learn to read up on something before you go rant. Oh yeah, and the darkness and velvet revolver suck ass.

[misfitsrocker14]

You, columnist are gay. I hate you.

[SRVGuitarFreak]

I didn't even waste time reading the article, I can tell by the title that it's very opinionated, and I acualy don't care if if Goth music is talented or not.

[ThEgReEnMuNkY]

goths suck, I agree. But you obviously know nothing about the subject your writing on, slipknot and korn goth hahaha...












The phrase "Life is short, kill as many as possible." was coined for people just like yourself

[Resiliance]

Shut up, you ignorant twat.

[Freepower]

this is probably the single stupidest article ever. You want to try your luck with a Berzerker setlist or a slayer solo, have a go at it, see how "untalented" my "goth" friends are.

[GreenDayChris]

' Marylin Manson who was the first to cause controversy in persuading kids to rebel ' LOL!
You my friend, are a fool!

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

HEY BUDDY IS CALLED EVOLUTION(ehf-oh-lu-shun) E V O L U T I O N OF ROCK! DAMN, I UNDERSTAND BASHING SLIPKNOt BUT I GUARENTEE U HAVENT LISTENED TO KORN TOO MUCH

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

and korn isnt goth, and they acctually sing

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

rockjock2552:
what a ***ing *** you *** how could you say that ***ing shit you ***ing dusch bag
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:23]|

Duke_Fan:
baaddddd idea postin this... lotta goths here at UG ... though im not goth
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:25]|

RatiugLink:
I hate "Goths" too. But you seenm to have the wrong definition of "Goth". You also do not back yourself up whatsoever.

Goth in the true sense of the word I have no problem with.
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:33]|

bass_maiden:
Wow...that was one long rant.
You're also very judgemental, ever heard the 'don't judge a book by it's cover' ?
Not all goth music is suicidal, Manson doesn't play guitar and even though I don't really like him, and they 'only use four chords' he has some catchy songs...
And if you're ever gonna do another closed-minded rant, do some ***ing research first!
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:41]|

dangerlives:
Jackass
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:53]|

Damicksta2k:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHH!
Why do people continuously misuse the word "goth"?

Slipknot, Korn, Manson etc are not examples of gothic music. People who like these bands are not necessarily "goths". Just because you dress in black does not make you a "goth". People have been correct to mention The Cure as an example of a Gothic band (although saying this the band themselves denied that they should have this title), do they sound anything like these bands?

Don't get me started, i could go on for hours about people who consider themselves "goths" but really are offending those from the original gothic period of the late '80s - early '90s (notice that the period has since ended, and has not been resurrected).

As for the idiot who wrote this, lets hope for your sake as well as everyone elses that you stay unregistered.


[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:55]|

Chocolate Balls:
I agree, that the new bands make simpler music, and that some bands could benefit by writing solo's. But still, a lot of bands can get away with that. Instead, they fill in that blank spot with their looks and style's. You have to agree, that video's and concerts made by today's bands, are far more advanced and they just look better. Look at Rammstein for example; their songs are rather simple, they use almoust no solo's, even if they do, they are basically the same, only slightly modified. But yet, they make up for that by giving unbelievable concerts. So, what you've said, is not always true.
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:58]|

MadSchecterGTR:
Dude this was one of the sh!ttiest articles I've read in awhile. Having an amazing guitar playing doesn't make your band the best. Having a good band makes your music good.

damn straight :cheers:

[FJM2C]

to the author: go f*** yourself and your "i must label everything" attitude you ignorant prick . And the bands you gave as examples of "goth" (which does not exist) are actually nu-metal.

[Metallicat251]

I ***in hate goths. the article was kinda pointless. but true.

[numnuts]

i think goth music really sucks too, but i dunno what all this stuff i about them copping gNr

[peter_2004]

sweet mother of god you suck!

[bajsbomb]

FJM2C> Yeah, but nu-metal stinks aswell... :P

Anyways you are all a bunch of misspelling c*nts, who cares about which music others listen to?! What's the problem, REALLY?

[Doolittle88]

You should get your facts straight before you write an article.....you seem to think goth is nu-metal

[Diceman42]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I CANT BELIEVE HE PUT JUST HAWKINS ON THERE!!

tool.

[MonkeyAteMySoul]

wow, listen to opeth, more than four chords there and realy good solo's, listen to children of bodom, ridiculusly hard to play, listen to in flames, solos harmonies, catchy shit, Iv proven my point and wasted my time, thank you very much

[Zeke5000]

wow..........that really really sucked. i cant believe how much that sucked. I hate goth but that was barely correct. All rock is about rebelling. not just goth.

[chinko]

why do people hate goths so much??? lol

this article reeked, i could tell it was bad when u mentioned justin hawking *shudders*. PLEASE, are you setting your talentless opinion on some shitty CD you picked up and thought was goth???

[Cymbaline]

wow this is retarded I mean you are entitled to your opinion but there was other music promoting rebellion before goth.... hmm let me thing PUNK I love that too but you don't bring that up. When was the last time Marilyn Manson played acoustic you ask? well Dl Coma White, or The Last Day on earth, great songs ACOUSTIC... ppl think Slipknot was ruined cuz they had some acoustic songs... your info was faulty there... but if you hate goths for rebelling how do you not hate punks, or most rockers most rock was considered "rebel music" or "devil music" look at the hatred bass for bands like Kiss, or even Led Zeppelin... they are just as rebel as Marilyn Manson. You obviously haven't seen this fine movie called Bowling for Columbine, it has nothing to do with this but Micheal Moore interviews Marilyn Manson and Matt Stone of South Park and they were the voice of reason. They were more intelligent than some of these right wing ppl, but hate all you want, I just wanted to point out some of your info was wrong.

[GuitarN00b]

hahahahahaha...so according to him, everything that sucks can be labeled "goth?" i can go for that...

[Cymbaline]

oh also, the look wasn't from Axl one of the huge looks came from Robert Smith of the cure, The Cure is amazing yet I have heard them referred to as "goth rock" other metal bands from Germany and any death metal Sepultra and stuff influenced the look not Axl Rose.... that would be hair band stuff there kiddy. Axl is up there with Brett Micheals, the guy from Poison, and ofcourse Dee Snider and all of twisted sister that is hair metal, not goth look

[Pumpkins4Life]

people, people, people the cure are not goth rock, Robert Smith has made this quite clear in numerous interviews, he says that they are only gothic by association. by the way marilyn manson, slipknot, and all nu-metal just plain sucks time for them to learn more than 4 or 5 chords and make an album with songs that sound different than the previous ones

[metal_fanatic]

ok, that was the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Don't get me wrong, I hate goth music, but the article just plain sucked, and didn't present anything persuasive. Are you trying to tell me marilyn manson sucks cause he doesn't play acoustic guitar? cmon, what are u, 2?

[chinko]

i dont play a double necked bass, or a acoustic bass, so do i suck and am i gothic?

[NeKxROMANTIC]

dude, the bands that you named are either nu metal or industrial metal, not goth rock, goth-rock is bands like the cure and sisters of mercy, and they do have talented guitar playing, if your going to go so far as to have a large article with lots info to back up your point, at least know what the *** your talkin about, most people who think that they're goths arent, they are just pissy metal-heads who wear black and complain about the world, real goths (if there are any left) arent ***in ignorant or annoying, and by the way, you dont have 2 play an acoustic guitar to have talent, there are lots of great guitarists who play only electric and lots of crappy guitarists who play only acoustic, you dont have to sound nice to play well

[birdman]

i think the main point is not whether the music is gothic or not, it matters whether the band has talent. It is true that people these days can pick up a guitar and play a few power chords and say they are talented because they sound like the shit bands out there today. This article is right! Long live rock and roll screw the bloody talentless shit we hear today

[birdman]

but the article sucked. . . .i forgot to say that

[AvixK7]

This article is pathetic. opinionated, one-sided, clearly uninformed.

Forget about MTV and the dance music craze. If you want to save something, start at home first. You want to save music? Start by saving Rock N Roll!

Rock n roll has never been in danger idiot. it's just not mainstream anymore, which is perfectly fine. For example, Radiohead isn't blowing up the charts but it still has a great fan base. so basically all that you've said is that anything that doesn't suit you tastes in music is ruining rock music. That is pathetic and narrow-minded.

[DarkMurderDoll]

This article sux.

[uragooch33]

This article is pathetic. opinionated, one-sided, clearly uninformed

im agreeing with avixk7 i dont like goth music at alllll ummm but you obviously have nooo idea what your talking about because rock has not been ruined by goth music or any other form of music for that matter just because a defferent type of music is popular at the time(which i didnt think goth was popular) doesnt mean that the genre dies..........in fact its probably much better that rock is more underground now. another point that i would like to make is the fact that you are very uneducated on what goth is cause you only named the most popular goth bands and some of those are only borderline goth so to sum it all up you did a horrible job on this article

[Wickedcarny]

That was the worst article i have ever written. Did not clearly define "goth" music...nor really explain or do anything but waste 2 minutes of my life. thanks asshole.

[Ash-Ock]

Goths in general suck. I've only met one who was caring and kind. The rest are assholes. Good job.

[poot]

this article would have been better had it been written 15 years ago. unfortunately, it wasn't. shut the hell up.

[Unknown Soul]

i agree...completely biased article. you're saying that if someone doesn't stop to play an acoustic part in a song that the song sucks? you know...last time i heard WHIPLASH by MetallicA it most definitely did NOT suck and i don't remember any acoustic parts in it...nor in CREEPING DEATH. and just for the record...i have an mp3 of MARILYN MANSON performing LAST DAY ON EARTH acoustic biotch. i hate the darkness by the way...that's one big led zeplin ripoff band through and through.

have you not listened to THE CURE? TYPE O NEGATIVE? SIOUSXE (sp?) AND THE BANSHEES? how about this...there's a band out of new jersey called EMPIRE HIDEOUS...listen to some of their stuff especially the VICTIM DESTROYS ASSAILANT cd.

and watch what you say about goths as people. not all of us are "assholes" to quote Ash-Ock. there's people at my school that have stated that they are terrified at me by seeing me walk around in all black, in fishnet shirts, chains on my pants and shorts, and eyeliner with black fingernail polish. but anyone that *knows* me would testify otherwise.

[Unknown Soul]

and i just noticed CYBORG'S post...HIM is an AWESOME band from finland that are considered gothic. they've got your acoustic breakdowns and solos and awesome riffs and everything you're looking for. so please actually look into a genre beyond two artists before you go labeling the whole thing.

[ShoeLaces907]

To Arucard:

I wasn't comparing them musically. I was comparing them in terms of emotion, depth, etc...I can see how you would think the other way though, I didn't word it great.

[bean_brain]

Oh great, another article bitching against a genre. REAL original buddy. Now I'm not saying I disagree with most of your article but what I am saying is that self-righteous drivel like this makes for really lame reading.

[Radiating Eye]

EVERY ONE, DO NOT CLAIM TO KNNOW SHIT ABOUT GOTHS. THE VISIGOTHS AND THE OSTROGOTHS DID NOT WEAR BLACK AND WORE NO CRAZY CLOTHES. THEY DID NOT LISTEN HARDCORE MUSIC. SO THEREFOR, YOU CANNOT CALL SOME ONE LIKE MARYLIN MANSON A GOTH, HES JUST A FAG WHO TRIED TO BE COOL BY WEARING FAKE TITS...UHH, THE ARTICLE SUCKED HOWEVER AND UHH...FUCK YOU? IDK

[buckethead101]

f*** goth music (except evanescence) coz they don't use the concept of talent

[An80sAbortion]

im almost crying on the inside about how people rip off and try to, yet hardly, bring back the great thing that was goth rock. and you should never label those bands you mentioned as "goth" yet more like "music for kids who want to rebel but can't really rebel in the long run". hmm. but STILL! don't put down anytype of music. the talent doesn't matter. it's what you like. just get the facts strait. and forgive me, i dounderstand that some people do enjoy the music for the music and not to rebel.

[An80sAbortion]

AND STOP F*CKING GIVING THIS VIOLENT IMAGE TO THE GOTH SUBCULTURE! F*CK!

[VehemenceOwns]

ok, first of all, this ***er knows nothing of what hes talking about. What he is talking about could most closely resemble black metal, although it wouldnt be considered goth music. The "goth" you are talking about if i interpret correctly, is when the bands dress in all black and sometimes wear corpse paint. A good example of this would be the band Dimmu Borgir, none of the guitarists use acoustics ever, none of their songs contain any acoustics either. But anyone who knows anything about it knows that a good black metal song does have lots of chords, and very good leads and solos. I guarantee that galder, silenoz, and even shagrath of dimmu could tear any of those bands you named to shreds. Another good example of goth music could be another black metal band called Emperor, in emperor, they do dress in all black, and they burn churches and kill faggots like you. I hope a "real" goth, not some ***ing pussy mall poser, comes and finds you and teaches you a lesson.

[desecratedone]

where as i agree with sum of ur comments u should leave korn alone they r awsome slipknots an mansons music should never have seen the light of day (or black of nite)and so should the darkness music but if u want sum great guitar solos then u should check out metallica the greatest musicians out there who noe about the soul of the guitar

[rockjock2552]

[QUOTEpeople, people, people the cure are not goth rock, Robert Smith has made this quite clear in numerous interviews, he says that they are only gothic by association. by the way marilyn manson, slipknot, and all nu-metal just plain sucks time for them to learn more than 4 or 5 chords and make an album with songs that sound different than the previous ones
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 19:39]| ]

look i hate Manson but get off of John 5 he is one of the most talanted players around listen to him play sometime and tell me if you are that good. just becaues some thing is goth does not means it sucks it just means that it is black and loud

[hobo8917]

stop writing horrible articles!

[Who8MyFish]

This retard totally missed the point of "rock n roll" rock n roll started as a way for guitar players to score with as many chicks as humanly possible although it soon became the purest form of rebellion against all authority. From your parents to god and everyone in between it doesn?t really mater who you are so to say that bands like Slipknot I.C.P & Marilyn Manson have ruined rock n roll is entirely wrong in fact they have brought the next step in rocks eternal evolution to the masses and began to pave the way for the next group of ***ed up kids to take stage and ruin what these bands have dedicated their lives to their version of ?Rock N Roll?

[nali182]

im not gonna bother reading everyones replies so forgive me i this has already been said, but this article is poorly researched. i have doneno research on the topic and i know alice cooper was much earlier than any of the bands he/she mentions as goth rock. also ive seen manson play an accoustic set on a dvd ive got ... and john 5, his guitarist frequently uses double neck guitars not that i see the significance of it.

[white_waltz]

I dont like goth rock at all but this is a major close minded rant that i feel like i discrimanted all goth music jsut by reading this article. First of all its great that you've made the delcaration that ALL "goth music" bands only use a couple chords. Thanks for clarifying that my eyes must have been decieving me when i looked at some "goth music" tabs and they had far mroe than a couple chords. Next, thank you for researching before this article, because i met a lot of people that consider Slipknot and korn nu-metal, but when they say this now i can merely laugh and say "You morons they aren't new metal they are goth music and if you lsiten to them you are a goth." Thirdly, i wanted to save music. Thanks for clarifying i can ONLY do this by saving rock n' roll. Ok am i the only one who thinks to save music we should save classical? Some of the greatest rock legends of all time where musical geniuses and had first learned by deeply studying classical music. They then took their knowledge they recieved from learning classical and applied it took make great sounding and genius rock n' roll works. It's kind of ironic how in order to save music and your favorite genre (which im assuming is rock n'roll) you give advice that would in fact dam* us to many more years of bands spewing out crappy music. But hey, at least it wont be "goth music". Oh i have one queston for you, wouldnt Guns and Roses be "Goth Music"? I mean according to your article above the all of the goth's stole all of their fashion from Guns n' roses. I mean this most likely means that they had be fans of guns n'roses to steal their fashion. Since guns n' roses music was beinglsitned to by goths doesnt that make it music for goths aka "goth music"?

[fuel13]

the only problem that i have with this column is that it sucked. if you have an opinion then you can keep it ytou yourself. nobody is going to listen to what you have to say, so just dont ever write anything again.

[comingclean55]

First of all I agree iI'm not a fan of Marilyn Manson, Korn, or Slipknot but I have the decency to respect others opinions your opinion is not going to change what people listen to therefore people should keep stuff to themselves sometimes you obviously wanted to start something with so called "goths" and you did but you forgot that many people were happy when music got simple. I can honestly say that Guns n' Roses are assholes and I don't like them but that doesnt mean Im going to parade down to city hall with a ***ing banner. Not only have you insulted the fans of this kind of music which also includes punk... you've insulted the music industry for being ignorant and calling your self a music fan. For the person who stood up for the cure it was very cool of you to recognise such a great band but there not goth were they ever as said according to an interview with Robert Smith but please keep listening to the music you guys love for the differences between us make the world a better place.
Your friendly neighborhood musician

[fuel13]

Some of the greatest rock legends of all time where musical geniuses and had first learned by deeply studying classical music. They then took their knowledge they recieved from learning classical and applied it took make great sounding and genius rock n' roll works. - white_waltz


kirk hammett from metallica went to college to study classical music, and i think that he got his masters degree in it, tho im not sure about that part. well what u said is true and i fully agree with you.

[zsmith]

wow...it doesn't get much more opinionated than this. i for one don't consider myself "goth" by any means, however i do know one thing...that many goth musicians have talent...much more talent than whatever two-bit hack that wrote this article has. they didn't even have the guts to register and let their name be known.

[yeller56]

Slipknot and KoRn and every***ing band mentioned here in this shitful rant is not gothic. Gothic is like Cradle Of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, In Flames. Those are some to start off, now not every great needs to play an acoutic or a double-neck. Slayer has not made any song acoustic or with the use of a double-neck. Given the chance I would find the nearest object and shove down your throat, you have no knowledge of music. Now kindly, die and burn in hell.

[Burn in hell]

quo_vadis:
u have the worst examples for bands and goth bands require alot more skill then these other bands u talked about like rolling stones, rolling stones suck so much it isn't funny, i doubt u even have half the skill to play a "goth" song so don't judge what u can't even do urself.

The Rolling stones are one of the most most favoured Rock and Roll band in the world. You are a complete fuc*ing moron!! And to the author: the stones played more then a few simple chords!!! Keith Richards was voted the greatest rhythm guitar player in the world. Good God! you people have bad taste in music.

[Steph Bets]

justin hawkins is ONE guitarist in the darkness. dan hawkins his bro is the main lead guitarist

[bAllzOUT420]

you, my friend, are a giant smelly cunt. you have not appreciation for musicianship in any way, shape, or form. since you will find some of the most creative and talented musicians playing "gothic" music. but its pretty obvious that you only wrote this article to piss people off and amuse yourself, so i could care less what you say about any type of music

[rocket_queen888]

whats his brothers name?

[Unseen_hero]

"goth" or do you mean nu-metal? does suck.

double necked guitars and solos don't make a band good. and a good band based on that doesn'ts ond too original.

[Chocolate Balls]

God damn, they really hate ur article!

[dylan_f1989]

THIS SO CALLED COLUMN WAS MADE BY AN IGNORANT PERSON WHO DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE DECENCY TO LOOK UP WHAT HE SO BADLY PUTS DOWN AS BAD. AND YOU SAID STUFF DANCE MUSIC. DUDE YOU CAN'T DANCE TO A 20 MINUTE SOLO.

[Rockstar_450]

IF A PUNK BAND USES ACOUSTICS OR DOUBLE NECKS IT DOESN'T MAKE THEM ANY LESS S**T!! look up your info before you do it. The instruments you use have no relevence to your song quality. anyway to counter your claims, listen to opeth they use many acoustics.

and metal musicianship is many times better than most rock types (excluding clasic rock ofcoarse)

[RememberMyName]

First, you are biased. Second, you named nu metal bands and called them gothic. Third, Marilyn Manson is a genius who has sh*t to say (good sh*t at that) and is a very nice, knowledgeable man who's music should be R 18+ because teens take his lyrics literally not metaphorically and kill themselves. Fourth, I love old metal and many of the songs you mentioned, and I believe there is never enough (and music is currently lacking) guitar solos, so don't bag me for being a nu metal or goth lover. Fifth, name any other non-stereotypical songs when you talk about metal cause you sound like all the semi-talented punk guitarists at my school who think they are top sh*t because they can play these stereotypical rock songs. PUNK only takes a few chords, NU Metal only takes a guitar tuner that will recognise Drop F# and a mad but suicidal drummer, and GOTH music takes a BELIEF STRUCTURE!!!

[Encore_God]

Sweet Child Of Mine has nothin to do with Axl

Oh no, course not, he only wrote the lyrics and the chords... moron.

[Encore_God]

The introduction of Gothic music meant that anyone could make a song with only the help of 3 or 4 chords.

WTF?! MOST ROCK N ROLL IS 3 CHORDS YOU DIVOT!

[driftinguitar]

this thread is so ridiculous, i'm starting to like "goth music." the author's lucky he/she's unregistered, because even though i usually don't burn people, this guy deserves it.

[peilun]

?????
1 star....
i hate goth but i don't know... cheap article...
no point at all.....

[vinniebeast]

Wasn't John 5 Marylin Manson's guitarist? I thought he was supposed to be a good guitarist, because he's bringing a soloalbum out.

[AxeMan88uk]

Idiot, u name Nu-Metal bands as goth bands, and u wudnt know a goth if one came to bite u in the a**.
u clearly know nothing cos if u ask a REAL goth bout those bands your mentioning they would also agree with u in hating them, 'goth' nowadays on bands like evanescence is just a commercial name like blink 182 are called punk (which they clearly aint). If u heard real goth music u would know their is talent.

[egor]

dude you are a dumbazz ! everything you mentioned is not a gothic at all !!! not even close !!! gothic is a post punk music and sub culture , it took its roots from old school (as id call it rite now for being exact) punk rock .

[sanitarium017]

im not sure what goth music is... that guy mentioned nu-metal bands and called them gothic... i dont understand...

________________________
THRASH METAL WILL RETURN

[prettylikedrugs]

its not just the guitarist that matters. a band is made up of more than just the guitarist. you have to look at the whole band to 'judge' and not just the guitars. pleese keep your opinions to yourself in future instead of inflicting them on people who have more than two brain cells

[JimmyJackrabbit]

I wouldn't really worry about goth rock taking over rock n roll buddy. You're paranoid. Oh, and Manson has done acoustic before....you twat....

This article isn't really any different from one of the Good Charlotte articles, you just changed the band names....

[numetaldude]

i just don't get what the point was... i mean, at least 80% of UG people hate nu metal.. so why write another article against it??? everybody knows that nu metal is ruining rock n roll although some people (myself included) refuse to accept that fact!

[Jeffultura]

It's this holier then though attitude that causes alot of kids to just give up on music all together. Put down the hairspray and get out of the 80's. There is alot more to music then a Gibson Les Paul and a generic blues scale. Plenty of goth bands use classical scales and measures in their music which alot of people will tell you is a hell of alot harder then playing the blues. So with Goth having more in common with Bethoven then your precious Guns n Roses I ask you, which is really the more talented of the two?

[Unknown Soul]

Cruxshadows. Blutengel. The Cure. Lacuna Coil. Opeth. Faith and the Muse.

just a few actual gothic bands for the author to check out.

[Unknown Soul]

and one final addition on my behalf...

goth music is some of the most complex music you'll find. most real goth bands will incorporate synth, keys, guitars, bass, drums, and sometimes orchestra instruments (cruxshadows heavily relies on a violinist for example) to add a very ethereal mood and melodic, creepy atmosphere.

[Sneaky-i]

hahahahaha........***head!

It does my ***ing head in when people's opinions are so misinformed. Sorry but to put it straight:

The early eighties produced a goth movement with bands such as 'souixse and the band banshees' , 'the cure' , 'Fields of Nephilim' etc. These bands brought the goth image into the public eye more than ever before.

In the nineties people such as Trent Reznor and his one time protoge, Marilyn Manson incorporated some goth sensibilities into their image.
Some bands associated with Death Metal, Black Metal and so forth, also chose to adopt an image which would be seen be some as goth. However I do believe there is a difference between true goths and this variant.

Finally, just to let u know that nu-metal bands have nothing to do with goth. This image is based on ***ing 'Buffy' or 'Angel' more than goth.


Just to finish, the creativity, musical ambition and technique of many of these artists would be most likely be beyond your obviously limited understanding of your chosen subject.

YOU ARE A CUNT!

Some modern nu-metal

[Sneaky-i]

^last line is not part of post.

[Encore_God]

and the Muse

Muse aren't a Goth band!

[Bumper]

Alright, the Gothic style came from the clothing style of the British punk movement in the late 80's, not the ostrogoths or visigoths from ancient times. The Damned were not a gothic band but were a punk band. Dave Vanian (the singer) did wear all black and make up but this was not considered gothic, it was just a stage costume, like the same way that Captain Sensible (their bassist) would always wear a nurses outfit on stage. Also to the dickhole who said if you don't do acoustic songs or play a doubleneck you aren't good, COME THE FUCK ON MAN!!!! I cant remember very many acoustic songs from Hendrix, or any doubleneck stuff from people like Buddy Guy, or B.B. King. Manson, even though I utterly despise his music, has a great guitarist. The guitar you play, beit a 6, 12, 7 string, doubleneck or acoustic, does not make you great. Years of practice does that. This column was written out of sheer ignorance and for reading it we are all now dumber and closer to your level, good ***ing job.

[Bumper]

Also how can you seriously say MAnson was the first to persuade kids to rebel? To persuade kids to sing against thier parents? My God man. What has rock been about since the dawn of time? Rock has built it's foundation on rebelling, and being ones self.

[M.Feeney]

After reading this, and many other crap articles, I have come to the conclusion that people write crap articles purposly... To see what everyone will say... Well it's time the bullshit stopped. If I was in the same room as you I'd ****ing kick your ass!

[lpclassic696]

I'm not a fan of goth music, but like a good leader you need tolerance, people like goth music for a reason, figure out what it is and learn something from it, you just might get better

[metallicacdc]

who gives a shit?

[Skidrowpunk]

either i'm 1516 or 1355

[amunspawn]

this guy might be on his way to beating the "how 2 know your right for guitar article" in the amount of hate he created towards himself

[amunspawn]

.

[Butterknife]

you are a real moron.

[any14doomsday]

It dosnt matter cause thrash owns....and so does molly hatchet...the hatchet owns too

[Psykotik]

What a stupid article!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wtf does Korn, Manson and Slipknot has to do with goths??????????????


You do not know what is a real goth, kid...

[Psykotik]

Oh and what really ruined music is nu metal,pop,rap,pop punk... not goths' music!

[FrankNslash]

dude i like the darkness and all but you dont put justin hawkins in the same sentence as jimmy page eddie van halen and slash

[totenkopf]

This is, by far, the worst ***ing article I have ever
read here!!!!
FUCKING DUMBASS!!!!! CRAWL IN A HOLE AND DIE!!!!!!!!!

[dresedtodepres]

well none of the bands you listed were goth rock anyways

[amunspawn]

does anyone actually read anyones comments cos you've all just repeated the same fukin stuff over and over.

[Death Of Season]

not really about the article, just about the mention of slipknot: mick and jim are two of the most talented guitarists recording music right now. and neither slipknot nor korn are 'goth' bands.

[llPmaNNxll]

your damn right on the whole hardly any of this 3-4 power chord shit is anywhere near talent. goth music is nothing but untalented screamers beating a yak to death with their guitars. try learning music from the 60's and 70's. ok goth music is not slipknot korn or manson is poser goth music. it sucks anyway. pick up an acoustic and begin to learn what a C, G, E, F, A, and B chords are and think to yourself wow this sounds a lot nicer then screaming. on a final note what korn slipknot or manson member can play any one of jimmy page's solos id be surprised if any of them could.

[trappedshadow87]

Manson doesn't play guitar you f.uckwads. He's a vocalist and sometimes plays keyboard. Who cares if somebody can play like Slash or Page. They're good in their own right and they have their fans (including myself), but you can't compare goth to straight up rock. it doesnt work that way. Figure it out for yourself, I'm done.

[distorted_order]

dudes, if you dislike such music, than ignore it. and if you wanna change something, then start playing classical RnR yourself instead of complaining all the time and bashing talented artists...

ignorant idiots

[bass_player15]

this is a biased article. if you were goth for half of your life and then just a rocker for the other half then it wouldnt be biased. look like the guy above me said, just ignore it, dont bash. U have now just insulted every goth that may be a member of this site. u have to remember that we have a wide variety of ppl on this site. we have white ppl, black ppl, asians and everything in between. and we ahve life styles such as gays ,lesbians, bi, goth, very religious. there for u have to watch wut u post or you'll end up offending someone. next time think before u post an article

[haines62]

goth people are faggots

[Kingtab69]

I THINK YOU ALL NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP. THIS GUY HAS A GOOD POINT GOTH MUSIC SUCKS!!!

[haines62]

i agree with kingtab69, this is one of the best articles i have ever read

[exit233]

hmm I wouldn't go as far as to say it's the best article ever written. It has no real solid reasons backing it up, just another idiot labeling everything and everyone involved...telling us why the hell we shouldn't listen to Goth rock..unfortunately you haven't convinced me to stop with the petty reasons you give. If you wanna go and bash everyone, and not give a damn about who you might be insulting along the way, go run for office ***tard.

[MyDogAteAString]

this is the stupidest article i've read

[yeller56]

If a good guitarist needs to do an acoustic song. I guess Good Charlotte must be something special to him.

[TommyWIg]

there is nothing wrong with goths. i find they are actually pretty nice people. slipknot has guitar solos dumbass. they also have acoustic songs.do ur reasearch bud.

[SquishingMelons]

Um, I've seen Manson do an acoustic set before. Not to stand up for "goth" music, but maybe you should research this stuff better next time. Manson played a set with the Smashing Pumpkins, all acoustic.

[TommyWIg]

oops i spelled research wrong

[shinkyo00]

You idiot do some research to support your thesis before you write something. If you want to rant like you just did then post it somewhere on the forum not as an article for people to ridicule.

[shinkyo00]

Also, there are tight rhythm parts that are just as hard to play as lead parts. Your lead guitar list is also inadequate. What about instrumental guitarists and virtuosos such as Jason Becker, Steve Vai, John Petrucci etc? I'll bet you Dream Theater can rip the Darkness a new asshole with their guitar playing.

[IadultswimI]

AHHH!

*buires head into hands*

this article is VERY wrong, slipknoT is not goth, Marylin madison is not goth, or niether korn or whatever!
Goth Bands:
Sisters of Mercy
The Cure
Black Tape For A Blue Girl
ect... ect...
your talking about mallcore music and i still think this article VERY! unresearched or researched incorrectly
The REAL Goth Subculture is at www.gothicsubculture.com
get it right!
AHHHHHHHHHHHGaH!!!

[MrLucky77713]

1: Do you even know what the fuck the goth 'look' is about?

Slipknot and Korn are nu-metal, while Marilyn Manson is industrial.

Mick 7 of Slipknot is actually really talented, if you haven't heard the new album...

Since when did you have to have blinding talent to be good? The whole basis of the original rock and roll was fun and simplicity. You didn't see Buddy Holly and Elvis ripping out solos. Sure, it's good to hear Page and berry play, but that kind of talent isn't a necessity. I really prefer the energy and simplicity of punk (though even punk has it's share of great players. Check out Brett Gurewitz).

[totenkopf]

amunspawn:does anyone actually read anyones comments cos you've all just repeated the same fukin stuff over and over.
[POSTED: 04 August 2004 - 14:42]|

i don't usually read all the comments if there are too many. I DON'T HAVE THE TIME!! I just post on the article.

[strigoi_vii]

oh ok.

now you are saying cradle of filth is untalented?
wow, ok. RETARD

even if you dont like the music. have respect and accept the factthat talent doesnt come from one place and that the world doesnt not revolve around classic rock

[Bilzzard_of_Ozz]

You want to save music? Start by saving Rock N Roll!

That was the most reasonable thing in this article(which by the way was mindless)

[lateraluspiral]

ROCK AND ROLL died with the 50's everything sence then has been ROCK. Get over it man, music is changing and always will be. Your article sucked.

[SiLeNcEaNSoRrOw]

what if I was gothic i wouldve been hurt by this article but im not so *** them

[harm0n20]

i read to about the part where it said that guitarists have to be incredibly godly or whatever.

[DFrr15]

^Rock and roll wont die, and rock is the same thing as rock and roll(kinda)

[elix997]

i'm not goth, but dont do shit like that thats just ***ing annoying damn...think before you ***ing make a pointless peice of shit article dumbshit

[Emenius Sleepus]

here's my thoughts: gothic music goes far beyond just marilyn manson. There's the Cure, Bauhaus, the New York dolls etc. And even A Perfect Circle could perhaps be named as that - well, there are elements in their music that are reminiscent of goth. Secondly, Slipknot - and Korn - aren't really goth bands, they are in a heavy rock/metal category. And those bands have quite good guitarists that are only different in the type of music they play. If you actually listened properly to any of the bands you have bashed, you will find a unique interaction between band members musically and maybe your small brain will be able to tell you that you have been wrong. Thirdly, your article in description of goth music makes it sound more like punk (which, while being a goth I also enjoy listening to), where as goth is post-punk era. I could go on and on blasting every little point of your article, but I'll save myself the trouble. This is biased, the information is incorrect and terribly researched. You have no idea what being a goth or a goth musician is about, so shut up and please never write an article again.

[ndat]

korn and slipknot are not goth but slipknot does use accoustic guitars in some of there songs. As for maraylin manson john five kicks ass I'm sorry but he is a great player... Goth is more like the cure what your thinking of is nu metal...

[slash_andrew]

hey dude, let me tell ya somethin, just because you don' like goth music(i dont like it either) doesnt mean its talentless...

the next time ya make a column, make it better or dont.

[GrungeMetalFan]

Some one needs to do a little more research. Marylin Manson wasn't the first person to ever make kids want to rebel against their parents (far from it) and Guns and Roses wasn't the first band to ever have black leather outfits and skull tattooes. Music did not begin in 1987!

[benjaminr]

The guy that wrote this article was ignorant. Manson does have an acoustic song, coma white, for example.

[color me misery]

I dont like "goth-rock" but the writer of this article is an idiot. If your going to insult someone, do your research first.

[biohazardous56]

the kid who wrote this is so hardcore........

what a dumb unregistered son of a bitch this is

you have to lern something here at ug

no one gives a damn about your whiny assed, bigoted, IGNORANT, lame, biased opininon is

keep it to yourself
a

[biohazardous56]

u sir have a crappy out look on life
a crappy opinion and u sir are a crappy canadian

[PrisonSexaddict]

http://ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/the_darkness_wants_1631000000.html

go read that and tell me again that the darkness is a real rock n roll band dumb ***. they are sellout pricks on mtv too

[uhh_me?]

umm maybe its just me but afi has seems to be slightly goth and they have solos and all that fun stuff you whined about goth music lacking and how can you write a article about why goth music sucks without actually mentioning a single band that is classified as goth?

[Dahmir]

"They even use double neck guitars, which probably symbolises a good band sinse all the greats have used them." Wow, that says is all. Although I am not a fan of "goth" music, it's quite obvious that this article is a pointless piece of shit.

[ad_lib_oz]

Lol, this was ASTONISHINGLY bad an article. My god, Rolling Stones...Goth???

What the shizzle, and bloody Mick Jagger is one of the best vocalists out there. Well I guess he was, he's getting on nowadays.

[Gr1m R34p3r]

Damn Goths...

[_oNcE_LoSt_]

I FIGHT FOR GOTH MUSIC!!!

VERY ARTISTIC!

[ShaDoweR]

yes this article sucked very closeminded and sh*t

[ShaDoweR]

69th vote

[sargasm]

None of that stuff you mentioned is real goth music (as i've been led to belive)

Also, I love how you mentioned chuck berry... and then complained about rock that only uses three chords...

[korn_rocker_111]

F.UCK THIS WRITER!!! KoRn and Slipknot ARE NOT GOTH u stupid son of a bitch!! jesus christ! Fuckin manson is but hes unique in what he does...and for ur information Slipknot DO do acoustics...listen to Vermilion Pt.2 and Circle....Korn are the rulers of this earth and have created something new and unique, they are pioneers of nu metal...so before u share ur totally biased opinion...do ur RESEARCH and GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!!

[LessThanLuke]

Punk bands are far more guilty of over-using boring power chords than "Gothic" bands are.

But, yes, Korn and Slipknot are both boring, I'd agree with that. Korn haven't created anything except bagpipe noise and an annoying bass sound, and while Joey's very talented, the rest of Slipknot are seemingly bringing him down with their "Let's tune down 83 steps" tactic.

[eastern_riffs]

its a good thing this guy kept himself unregistered,or else he woulda been bashed so bad..well,it would be no more UG for him.

[current_bun]

I just want to know why every one has to be categoriseed and then get people in other groups taking the piss out of them. If people want to listen to a certain type of music, or dress in a certain way, let them, they're not forcing you to aswell.

[amunspawn]

stop saying the same things over and over! jesus, every post is someone saying that korn, slipknot and marilyn manson arent goth bands and they play acoustic. i think he gets the idea.

[IPLAYBASS]

sure some goth music is aweful, but dont put korn and slipknot uder that catagory. Dude you want solos in this so called "goth Music" check out pulse of the maggots or opium of the people by slipknot. Theres yer lack of talent, you closed minded idiot.

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

i think the dude who wrote this is gunna turn out to be one of those fathers that are good little chrisitan boy rock haters... and will raise his kid to be as big of a throw-pillow as he is
________________________
glory to head and munkey

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

but thats my opinon

[big bear]

Korn and Slipknot are Goth. Hahaha what a load of bullshit.

Theyre Nu-Metal. Goth music is stuff like Joy Division and Sisters of Mercy.

I think that guy needs to get his genres right before writing this type of shit.

[ieatmonkeys]

Way to suck at life.

[distorted_order]

even if i say what was said a thousand times before:
don't say what was said a thousand times before!!!

[rhcpcure2826]

how is a genre of music talented or not???

"Why Goth Music Is Untalented'

^ lost it for me right there

[rhcpcure2826]

a vote: worst ug article to date?

aye or no to this post





maybe someone can start a thread (i wont risk it, might be spamming)

[Burn in hell]

The "what not to do when starting a band" is even worse.

[Damicksta2k]

IadultswimI:
AHHH!

*buires head into hands*

this article is VERY wrong, slipknoT is not goth, Marylin madison is not goth, or niether korn or whatever!
Goth Bands:
Sisters of Mercy
The Cure
Black Tape For A Blue Girl
ect... ect...
your talking about mallcore music and i still think this article VERY! unresearched or researched incorrectly
The REAL Goth Subculture is at www.gothicsubculture.com
get it right!
AHHHHHHHHHHHGaH!!!
[POSTED: 04 August 2004 - 183]|

Backin me up perfectly, thank you!!!

[Biohazard]

i hate goth music with a passion too, but this article blows. let people listen to what they want, no matter how bad it may be. you prolly got dumped by a boy/girl/it that liked goth music and decided to get revenge

[BrokenAngel138]

I really think that you should let people listen to what they want.BUT I could get paid millions of dollars to stand (or sit what ever you prefer)on a stage and scream too.Also if you people post a comment and are like "i just wasted 3 minutes of my life blah blah blah" Then dont f*in read it or how about this DONT COMLAIN! But anyways thats Just my opinion *Kat*

[Stringalist]

Limited amount of chords and less than talented singers? Sounds like, shall we say, punk music. Or any kind of modern music. Style has gone to the wolves.

[heartwarmingpie]

smoke on the water is 4 power chords... there u go, asswipe

[Slasher_Sloth]

ummm...... alot of bands you mentioned arent gothic........ metal and gothic are different (except for mabye death metal). and slipknot has an accoustic song (2 of them actually), so if you ever decide to post an article, i suggest you gather the facts.

[Superfly_Hen]

Goths bother me, but I enjoy "goth" music, as this Einstein so cleverly calls it. As a matter of fact,it shouldnt be all grouped into one category known as "Goth" music. It's just not fair to people who aren't Goths that listen to the likes of Slipknot, Korn, Slayer, Marilyn Manson etc. It should be categorized by what kind of style it has, not by who listens to it. If it were up to me, I'd classify Goth music as stuff like Jessica or Ashlee Simpson, because their music is as terrifying as a group of Goths, though half as retarded. Furthermore, if these bands lacked talent, why are they still known everywhere? So-called "Punk" bands (which are entirely un-punk, pardon my grammar) are the ones who lack a wide variety of chords in their songs. Goth singers even have more vocal talent than the whining, 10-year-old-boy noise of a punk band singer. Not only is "Goth" music acceptable, but it helps get you wired for certain events, be it a sports game or mass-murder. And finnally, what is this at the end of your article about trying to save Rock 'n Roll? You're worse than a televangelist (Well, i don't know about that). Rock can never die, it'll only change and change, whether you or me like it or not. Greenpeace blows, sucks and swallows.

[Superfly_Hen]

By the way, there have been a lot of people saying that this person needs to research the facts. If he (or she, God forbid) did that, then their fun would be over before they could even start.

[Superfly_Hen]

Ac/Dc might as well have been goth since all the retards agree that their name means "Anti-Christ Devil's Child"

[Superfly_Hen]

I

[Superfly_Hen]

AM

[Superfly_Hen]

THE

[Superfly_Hen]

GREATEST

[distorted_order]

idiot ever...
punk singer... 10 year-old voice... listen to real punk bands like Rasta Knast or Slime. you may be right with sum41 or blink or whatever. but they're not everything.

and since when it's bad to play with only 3 or 4 chords? i think, that is in fact talent, when every song sounds different, with a simple chord structure...

[Superfly_Hen]

Who the Hell are Rasta Knast or Slime? Anyways, I was only aming at the poser-punk bands like Sum 41, Blink, etc.

[Superfly_Hen]

I spelled aiming wrong earlier. My apologies...

[mkurucar]

I for one think this article is very biased because of the authors own taste. I don't slipknot but i do respect there guitarist because some of the songs they do are quite complepx. I give this article a 2 out of 100.

[BC516208]

Dude, this is exactly what I am trying to say to all my goth-rock loving friends!!! I hate that bullcrap, and it's just not the great highly-talented riffs or the huge out of this world solos it's the rythym, and the love for ROCK N' ROLL!!!!!! Led Zep is my favorite band, then comes yes, they are not the most famous band but their music is just outside of Rock n' Roll, it is like the Zen of music, I encourage more songwriters to reflect off this kind of music.
GREAT ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!

[BC516208]

davedathrasha, i just read the first line of your article, dude, are you serious, Slipknot comes nowhere near any of the bands from past times! You need to stop headbanging and let your head relax because you have no clue what ur saying.

[BC516208]

metallica sux dick!!!!!!!!! compared to older bands, but they are still a good band!!!

[FrankNslash]

any one that likes gothic music should be shot!

[Superfly_Hen]

..........................................................................................................................................boobs

[BrokenAngel138]

^^^ you know thats just your opinion...even though i hate goth music with a passion...but i still think that people have a right to listen to whatever they want...*Kat*

[BrokenAngel138]

think**

[Superfly_Hen]

...............................................................................................................boobs

[Goat666]

The guy who wrote this is probibly a 7th grade football jock who hasnt hit puberty.....YOUR FIRED!

[IadultswimI]

...........................................................................penis

[BC516208]

ok let's get one thing straight, people are definetly entitled to their opinion and so is the person who wrote this, I myself am not a fan of 'goth' music and I am not so much a fan of people who like goth style. and for the peolple who are saying you don't need talent to be good. lol, u make me laugh so much, jimi hendrix counldn't read music!!!!! now there is some ***in talent my friends!!!!! and someone said that you didnt hear elvis have a ripping solo, well elfish didnt write one song. saying u dont need talent to be a good rocker is not an opinion its a ***in 7 foot pole bein shoved up their asses. i respect this guy and his bravery to speak his mind.

[BC516208]

[penguinhobo]

bull, shit this article is biased and its stupid

[three.chords]

GOTH SUCKS!!!

[LoveableNipps]

The closest record I could find was the introduction of Marylin Manson who was the first to cause controversy in persuading kids to rebel and sing lyrics about hating parents. This was later followed by the likes of Korn and Slipknot. When was the last time you saw Marylin Manson sit down on stage and play an accoustic? All the greats have done it at one point or another. Great guitarists use accoustics to break down songs. They even use double neck guitars, which probably symbolises a good band sinse all the greats have used them.

Ok #1 Have you heard of the God Guns Government Dvd? by Marilyn Manson??? John 5 the worlds most talented guitarist plays a DOUBLE NECKED GUITAR DURING THE LOVE SONG YOU FUCKIN DUMBSHIT!! Oh yah and another example MARILYN MANSON USED AN ACOUSTIC GUITAR ON MANY OF HIS TOURS FOR THE SONG LAST DAY ON EARTH. #2 Korn and slipknow ARE NOT GOTH MUSIC!!!!!! They are dark rock there is a differance !! #3 you are the most closed minded individual here is what i want you to do go out on august 31st and get the John 5 instrumental record called Vertigo and TRY to PLay the song Vertigo. Keep your closed minded opinion to yourself you FUCKIN DUMBASS. but you wont because you are to closed minded open your mind.

[LoveableNipps]

Also Do your Research before you bash on a style of music cause your information sucked. you have to research BOTH SIDES not just your fave side.

[(sic)kid]

This has to be one of the stupidest columms I've seen. First of all, let me explain to you that Goth, is a type of music. There is no "crappiest" or "best" type of music, because music is an opinion. It is based entirely on opinion, so you have no right to say Goth is shitty. Of course, I know that you find Goth sucks, and I respect that. Second of all, I have to yell this at your stupid face, KORN AND SLIPKNOT ARE NOT GOTH. They are Death Metal (or Black Metal), a darker version of Metal, such as Black Sabbath. Goth is a whole different type of music. And this comes from somebody who doesn't even like Goth.

[(sic)kid]

buckethead101:
f*** goth music (except evanescence) coz they don't use the concept of talent

Evanescence=Goth? Fuck, you're stupid too.

[scheck006]

I'll bet this guy's freinds bag on goths all the time and how they hate the music that they listen to. he's just doing what he thinks people will think is cool and he's really just lookin like an idiot.

[distorted_order]

hehe, that's good

[scumfuc_69]

The author of this obviously just wanted to becool I guess. However it makes him look like an idiot.
I guess UG is to blame for letting these lame columns
on here. Reason is, I tried to submit one once & never heard if it was accepted or rejected & I never saw it again, & then you have these people writing about things they know nothing about being accepted.

[chanandler_bong]

damn straight

[rock_musician]

Ok through all the articles like this: guitar heroes blah blah blah, Nobody ever ever mentions guitar gurus like Joe Satriani Steve ray vaughan yungwie malmsteen etc. Why do people not recognise these heroes who kept solo alie and well while the mainstream went to crap with these metallers? think bout that guys. Never forget the heroes who amaze us with every not they play.

[Shallow Wake]

Who let this douche write such a horrible posting???? I'm not a goth fan but c'mon man, whats wrong with some musical diversity in your life? Lets just face it boys and girls, some people are just stuck in the 80's and these same people are still pissed about grunge killing big hair glam rock! Bleh!!!!!!

[alexxx152]

goth music sucks this article is s2pid

[tbs_182]

one of the worst, close minded articles i've ever read.

[travel sized]

wow that really sucked. learn to be open minded.

[ibanezrg]

hehe, The Writer didnt know that marilyn mansons guitarist is accually professional studio musician
Stupid article.. the writer sucks ass.

[BC516208]

if u dont agree with this listen and compare the following songs:
The Ocean-Led Zeppelin
Snap-Slipknot
Tumbling Dice-The Rolling Stones
Right Now-Korn
My Generation-The Who
Raining Blood-Slayer
Cocaine-Eric Clapton

Tell me the ones that are actually fun and ENJOYABLE to listen to

[LoveableNipps]

BC516208:
if u dont agree with this listen and compare the following songs:
The Ocean-Led Zeppelin
Snap-Slipknot
Tumbling Dice-The Rolling Stones
Right Now-Korn
My Generation-The Who
Raining Blood-Slayer
Cocaine-Eric Clapton

Tell me the ones that are actually fun and ENJOYABLE to listen to

you are stupid you just picked all pop songs maybe you should listen to OTHER SONGS BY THOSE SAME ARTIST, And you also Picked Bands that Mainly do Heavy stuff. SLAYER IS METAL NOT GOTH SAME WITH KORN AND SLIPKNOT, Listen to the Cure or Nine Inch Nails for Goth you are just as closed minded as this guy that wrot e the article.

[vanceboy]

Yeah, this article sucked as much as goths do. But anyway, No one's gonna read your (or my) rant, cuz there's just too much bitchin going around. I think everyone should ... SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[vanceboy]

#2 Korn and slipknow ARE NOT GOTH MUSIC!!!!!! They are dark rock there is a differance !!

Really? A goth person i knew loved them.

[LoveableNipps]

Just Because they are goth doesnt mean they have to limit them self to one type of rock. Most of the people i know listen to a Variaty of music. Frome Dave Mathews to Cattle Cadaver. You Just like the wrighter need to lear to be open minded. and i think everyone on here can agree with me that No matter what Kind of Rock Or Rock N Roll it is it is all BETTER THAN RAP!!!!

[sicklecow]

When early 50s rock started emerging, everyone said the same thing. They said that it was just untalented people singing mindless songs, and that guitar music was on the way out. In fact, The Beatles were denied a record deal by the first company they went to because the company rep said that they were untalented. The Beatles. Yeah. Today, we look back on that band as being one of the greatest rock'n'roll bands of all time. Just because certain people don't enjoy certain types of music does not mean that the music is untalented. Personally, I hate listening to Goth music but I definitely recognize and appreciate the talent and skill required for that genre of music.

That being said, whoever wrote this is an ignorant and biased moron.

[Toad Rider]

Goth people should play the banjo... that would be way funny. Hehehe, banjo But in any case, this is just a very one-sided opinion... and that's all it is, an opinion. Most opinion aren't bad, except ones that tell people it is a fact. HAHAHA banjos holy god it will be revolutionary.

none of the bands you mentioned were goths..

[fluffydog]

Oh my god. This guy clearly has NO idea what constitutes goth OR what constitutes good rock music. Come on, you think that goth took its look from Guns and Roses!? Have you ever heard of Black Sabbath mate? Or are you so (ahem) American that you think goth and all other types of rock had to be invented by Americans and American bands. Try taking a look outside your ailing country for one second and observe the goth bands in other countries (eg: Opeth, Lacuna Coil) or from your own (Type O Negative), all of whom are producing highly original and complex music. Which is more than I can say for the steaming pile of crap you call the Darkness (who by the way in England -the place Rock was invented : -are truly ridiculed). FluffyDog

[Toad Rider]

^^^ Hmmmm, he's probably never heard of any good English rock bands because uhhhh... there ain't any!Zing!

[peter_2004]

^^^ No good english rock bands??? err how about led zeppelin? AC/DC? Deep Purple? Pink Floyd!!!

[Strat_Monkey]

England -the place Rock was invented

OK, I'm British, but some of the earliest rock songs were written by Chuck Berry (an American), rock was based on black music, especially the blues (which started in America), Elvis Presley (another American) was the first huge Rock 'N' Roll star, and Jimi Hendrix (an American) was the most influential rock guitarist of all time, so you're way off the mark with that statement. Admittedly, Heavy Metal was invented by British bands, but almost every other form of "Rock", including the original form, was invented by Americans.

[smell_my_cheese]

i think you are all giving this dude a bit of a hard time, i think you all misunderstood what he said, he said rock music not rock 'n' roll. i don't really know where either was created but i tought i'd just let you know what i interpreted from his statement. also i find it hard to think of the cure as being goth, sure thay look like goths but their music sounds alot like brit rock(morrisey and stone roses) and you wouldn't call either of them goth, even tho morrisey can be depressed and weird in the same way goths are!!!

[fluffydog]

^^^ It's okay mate I can take it. Right so we have reached the conclusion that Chuck Berry played rock and roll. Thats really nice that, well done. I dont want to end up in some ruck about the definition of Rock. Point is, writer of above article knows nothing about Goth.

[Spicer_UK]

Okay you ignorant fool, If your looking for solos look no further than Arch Enemy, Slipknot's Latest Album, and Children of Bodom. And as for the Manson acoustic thing, listen to Coma White you turd!!

[Dani_Filth]

Ok for the person who posted the originally heaping load of *bull. I really don't think you should intrude into other people(s) genres....Seeing that you like rolling stones and old rock bands and such....and i'm more fond of bands like : Cradle Of Filth, KoRn and other hard bands like that...i think they are much more talented musicians than the rolling stones.....did the rolling stones play seven string guitars like munky and head...no...Steve Vai! originally had the idea of a 7 string guitar but know one liked it....then KoRn who have influenced 1000's came with the idea to have a 7 string guitar (drop D) to make it a hell of alot heavier!....now theres guitar legends right there

Paul the guitarist from cradle of filth.....no talent my ****ing a$s he has no talent alternative picking through a whole 7 minutes for every song.....wow...correct me if i'm wrong but thats skill.....slayer....kerry king??...and they have crappy voices?....it takes a hell of a good voice to scream like dani filth

Jonathan Davis well i suppose he has no singing talent either korn have been around for about 13 years now (correct me if i'm worng) and i think jonathan davis is one of the vocalists out there....now slipknot i have a taste for there musci but i partially agree with you.....9 people in a band is just plain stupid.....and corey is a **ck and likes no one and has no respect for ne music besides his

[Leyasu]

Well heres a good one, Cradle isnt Gothic, its Black Metal, so theres one mistake from the last guy, Children of Bodom is Power Metal, again, another mistake, also whoever wrote this, Marilyn Manson, Korn, and Slipknot are also Nu-Metal, which is a bad imatation of any Metal band, and again, isnt gothic, so why dont you, 1. Try naming some acctualy gothic bands, 2. recognise that gothic rock as its own unique style and isnt focused around guitaring but around atmosphere, and 3. try changing the name of this atricle as to why Nu-Metal is rather untalented...

Thank you, Leyasu...

[Psykotik]

buckethead101:
f*** goth music (except evanescence) coz they don't use the concept of talent

WTF!!!

GOTH MUSIC ISNT NU METAL!!!!

[4-string-4-eva]

youre going on about how slipkot and the likes never use solo's well go an dlisten to pulse of the maggots, one, angel of death and so on how can you say that people like mick thompson and kerry king have no talent!!!!!!

[gary666]

does he mean to say that Slipknot are goth music and have no talent? Slipknot have a lot of solo's on thier new album and acoustics too. What was the last 'Talented' band you were in? Take a hike up your mothers arse dipshit there are more important thing to worry about than what people listen to.

[VoodooBilly]

man, this guy really dont know shit.
just cos some ppl dont like slipknot and korn and stuff, doesnt mean they're bad music. surely the point of music is so that some ppl can enjoy it? if at least one person likes it, the band has to be doin something right, even if others hate it. there will never be a band that everyone likes/hates.
listen to sublime, for they are the greatest

[The_Eddster]

woah loadsa replies there. 1 star.

[Metalology]

if u dont agree with this listen and compare the following songs:
The Ocean-Led Zeppelin
Snap-Slipknot
Tumbling Dice-The Rolling Stones
Right Now-Korn
My Generation-The Who
Raining Blood-Slayer
Cocaine-Eric Clapton

Tell me the ones that are actually fun and ENJOYABLE to listen to

Retard, Slayer first of all is death metal not goth you crack pot. And second korn and Slipknot are Nu Metal not goth. You obviously no nothing

[BloodBlooms]

ok. so this article was written more than a month ago, and i'm just now getting around to reading it. i don't really expect anyone to get this far down the list of rants, tirades, misinformation, opinion, and sheer stupidity. unless, of course, you're planning to post a comment as well. if that is you, let me just ask you in all sincerity to refrain from telling somebody they're wrong, or their music sucks, or promoting your opinion in general. my guess is, this forum was invented more for the purposes of advancing one's musical career and development and less for the display shown in this article and it's seeminly endless points. whether or not you agree with it, disagree with it, like "goth", dislike "goth", think you know what "goth" is, or whatever else, you're opinion will not be propogated or understood by all. close-mindedness is the most unappealing characteristic humanity possesses followed closely by our ignorance of it. do something worthwhile...find some tabs for whatever band you want, learn them, write your own material, and live for whatever music you want. don't waste your time here playing "king of the hill" on your online soapbox. thats all...

[Rockin_Out89]

Should have done an article about how Rap music is untalented....cause that actually would have been better to read.

[Click You]

wow alot of these people dont know their genitals from their adams apple. goth isnt my thing but this article looks like diarhea. and marilyn manson definitely has talent.

[needurskullz]

dude you suk if a band makes it then they are good. you think slipknot is not talented???? they all are. Its just maybe because you like other stuff so appreciate everyone else dumbass

[KevinKung]

shit, you have the worst examples ever...leave man, never comeback to this site.

[lVl lVl_4life]

ur an idiot dude. and anyways manson has done acoustic with smashing pumpkins and on their own, not that that shows or symbolizes talent. god ur a freaking idiot

[ANGUS/JIMI_ROCK]

grrr..... Thats all ih ave to say

[Fedaykin]

I love this article, I don't agree with a couple of thing, but I sure agree that Goth Musicians are very UNTALENTED (or at least they want to appear untalented)
If you are so suicidal and have dark thought all day long, then just kill yourself and relieve us from your pesimism. Or, even better, stop the i'm-so-depressed-coz-i-dress-in-black attitude and become a normal person, moron

[Ville666Valo08]

Yeah, your an idiot.


HIM - There considered gothic, but i dont think so. And if they were, about the whole not being good singers thing, HAVE YOU EVER F*CKING HEARD VILLE SING, no, so shut up you little kid.

And i REALLY dont think Manson is goth, he's in a league of his own

[Ash_Lawrence]

agreed.

[americanpig11]

John 5 the worlds most talented guitarist

wow you are such an idiot. if you think that then you must suck big time

[DaddyTwoFoot]

Marilyn Manson in Industrial Metal, Slipknot is rapcore, KoRn is nu-metal. All this has been said an assload of times. Not goth. If you want an extremely talented goth band, go listen to The Cure. Robert Smith (though he has a whiny voice) is an emotional singer and fluid guitarist. Also, the Cure and multiple other GOTH bands specialize in acoustic guitars. Marilyn Manson's most gothy song is The Speed of Pain off of Mechanical Animals, and guess what that song uses? That's right kids, an acoustic guitar.

[Terabyte]

rofl..

what an old fasioned uncultured materialistic ***tard.
The most uneducated undefined idiot post i have ever seen since that guy who made a pathetic attempt to define metal.
I wonder if you're the same guy.. hmm..
I personally cannot stand maralyn manson, but i still think what you are saying is total bullshit...
as for slipknot being gothic.. well.. it maybe listened to by goths but its definatly nu metal...
Its just as much goth music as beethovens 5th symphony is rock 'n roll to a bunch of kevs in a school music lesson.

***ing idiot.

[deathshead]

all of you guys are dumb, you have no clue.

[deathshead]

ur all so close minded its not even funny

[Ville666Valo08]

How are we "close minded"

[LedZeppelin]

I don't particularly like "goth rock" like marilyn manson, but the guitarists from slipknot can do some insanely fast solos. And they've done some acoustic songs with orchestras and mandolins...my point, they're good. you're a little too biased though...I don't think these people are as much taking away from rock n' roll as bringing new elements into it. but we've still got "classic" rock bands like The Darkness and Velvet Revolver. music just doesn't sound the same...I mean, look at incubus. mike eizinger, the guitarist, can do sweet solos and is experienced at funk-rock. anyway...you're right mostly, but you're not optimistic enough.

[Cemonic]

"Unregistered" you got to hell and burn in hell.personally I love "goth" music if you don't like it just keep it to yourself.

[tragik]

first of all, none of the bands you mentioned are Goth Bands. . .the earliest "Goth" bands were Bauhaus, The Sisters of Mercy, and The Misfits. all the bands you named are Industrial/Nu Metal. Good Goth bands today are bands like HIM. Get your shitt straight before posting it

[tragik]

and BTW the HIM guitarist can shred solos and uses Morello like effects in much of his songs just listen to Razorblade Kiss

[YourAntiChrist]

Where did you come up with 'Goth' when first of all none of them are 'Goth'? Just a thought. I don't believe 'Goth' music has ruined music either.

[IgnoreThis]

For the whole classic rock stuff to come back would probably be the greatest event in modern music, but its unlikely. As for HIM, there call themselves 'love metal' and i think they are the only love metal band ever, but i guess they count as goth. Marylin Manson isnt goth either, he's a nu-metaller trying to shock people for fame, like how eminem tries to shock people. Korn and slipknot are nu-metal too, so are system of a down (but SOAD kick more ass than every nu-metal band), so, basically, youre right, its just that youre connfusing goth and nu-metal.

[Ze_Gibson]

ummm..... people are allowed to like genres you dont?
and no, im not really into that goth stuff... Im in a huge judas priest/ozzy streak lol

[MonaJamesManson]

Clearly you have never heard "In the shadow of the valley of death" by Marilyn Manson. It's a song with an acoustic sound, even if perhaps it is played on electric. There's a reason why they're are different genres, dumbass. And "goth" and the "oldies" are not in the same one, so No, "Goth" didn't ruin older bands' sound.

[MansonNails]

Amazing how many replies this thread has gotten....

But anyway, just to educate those people who know little about the true history of Gothic music or even what "Goth" really is, here's a couple of links where you can read up on the topic. Please educate yourself before posting. Thanks.

http://www.soundry.com/goth-early-history.htm

http://www.scathe.demon.co.uk/histgoth.htm

[spookykid_6000]

Dude get fucked, goth rock does suck, but Justin Hawkins is not a good guitarist, nor is he one of the best of the last 50 years. What about all the metal guitarists of the past 30 years? Jesus Christ man, punk rock has had better guitarists than Justin Hawkins. Not that I don't like punk rock, but the genre hasn't had it's share of great guitarists.

[dogma911]

Argh. Music is a form of expression. A lot of people enjoy Maryln Manson and although I wouldn't call myself a goth I think he is quite talented. He is very succesful and in itself makes him talented. Millions of people listen to his music-he must be doing somehting right. If everyone did the same thing in music it would be a very boring art form.
WOW do I sound serious-art form.....eh?

[stormchaser]

Crap article. that was a useless, opinionated, article about why nu-metal is bad. I have no doubt that was written by a bored, senile 45 year old reminiscing about "the good old days".

[Cutie]

Neither Korn or Marilyn Manson are "goth bands", you opinionated disgrace of a writer!

[yeller56]

Biased. "Goth" is not real. A true "goth" won't admit to being one. And a fake one will in a heartbeat, therefore its not real.

[yeller56]

mmm Gravy..

[SamuraiZach007]

DAVE DA THRASHA, you really need to think about english class and maybe you need to remember that metallica used to be cool. AND I bet Hendrix would've kicked Lars' ass when those pussies protested napster b/c their shitty ass new albums weren't selling

[EET_FUK_BASS]

all that bs about germanic tribes (goths) being an influence on goths today is stupid...and no they didn't kick the Roman's asses, they got their asses stompted into the ground

goths are more modeled after the celts (creepy dudes that built the stonehenge, etc)

[emericanman]

lame

[Cradl_of_filth]

are you mentally ill or somethin' ,do you at least know how to read? if you want to post a ***ing opinion go to the goddamn forum , its there for a thing you know ....asshole

[Cradl_of_filth]

stupid unregistered bastard , at least give a name or an adress to go and give you what you deserve asshole

[pistols]

I'll be honest.
This article STINKS.
Korn is not goth music. They are nu-metal
I define goth music as black metal, particularly the scandanavian bands.
And they sure as hell didn't steal their look from guns n roses.
Guns n roses suck, have nothing to do with goth music, and they are extremely overrated.
Listen to Emperor. Listen to Opeth.
Compare them to the bands you listed.

You definately can't say the rolling stones became influenced by goths. No way.

The only thing I agree with is that maralyn manson sucks.And that makes this article have something in common with him.

[pistols]

You have to agree with "Cutie".

[godofthunder]

terrible article withn one (not too original) good point...

Todays music is Rock, but not Rock N Roll.

[Yahiko357]

Well, I must say, congratulations on getting yourself completely screwed on UG. You deserve it though, you win the "closed minded jerk of the year" award. And believe me, that's really hard to do nowadays. People can like whatever music they want, that's why there's different styles in the first place. I hate to break it to ya, but the world doesn't revolve around your taste in music. People have the right to like whatever music they want... even Nu Metal *cough*

Leyasu
try changing the name of this atricle as to why Nu-Metal is rather untalented...

*cough*

[o_t4ng]

What a load of crap. I bet this guy's never even met a proper goth. As much as I love Manson, he is not the best example to use in this kind of "argument".

[jcwear]

marilyn manson is really just selling black stuff to teenagers who want to play with fire, people automatically think they're cool if they listen to that junk.

i say HORRAH FOR SOLO'S HORRAH FOR ROK AND ROLL

[Ville666Valo08]

This thing got a LOT of replies.....Oh and the dude that posted this is an idiot.....like i said before

[Mr. Clean]

i dont like goth music, but i still think this article is retarded

[Jello6025]

I wish there was negative stars, because this article is just a biased piece of shit. You are considered great if you sit down and play an acoustic? I never saw Jimi Hendrix use a double neck.

Who the hell let this shit onto this site?

[tom_nik]

yeah you seem like kind of a knob. its all an image, dressing in shitty clothes and playin shitty music. for example, marylin manson sucks balls, but he is really an intelligent person. these people are talented but there not using there talent in the right ways. i would have to agree with some of this article, but the majority of it sucks balls just like manson

[Anti-FlagAddict]

I regret to inform you that Marilyn Manson is not "Goth Rock", and neither is Korn. Korn is Rap-Metal, and Manson is something, but it isn't Goth Rock.

[Ozzyfan2005]

the author can suck my cock. Marylin Manson and KoRn kick so much as!

[Ozzyfan2005]

ass*

[i_am_lamb]

Pah. Korn is not goth rock, and Manson isn't either. Korm, is nu-metal, Manson is, i think, shock rock.

[insomniac38]

It's all an image thing. If you can drop tune your guitar so that all you need to do is play power chords with one finger and distort your guitar with so many effects until it sounds marketable to impressionable pre-teens, then that's half of the record deal right there. Then there are the vocals, which sound cool and different that's because they too have been run through a streamline of effects. I'm not saying that it's wrong to do that but my friends and I went to a Korn concert and i must say I was dissapointed. The atmosphere was rockin' but the music wasn't. Not to say that i hate either Korn or Marylin Manson, but there is a lacking in musicianship in these particular genres.

[HeyStoopid]

first off, manson is industrial shock rock(though he is a satanist) Korn and slipknot are nu-metal crap.

Goth is stuff like lacuna coil, paradise lost, Nightwish ect. And what i have heard (mainly lacuna coil and some paradise lost) they have much talent, just listen to comalies, when a dead man walks, Hyperfast or Tightrope (all lacuna coil) and you will see how much talent they have

[Ded Pengwyn]

Someone please punch the writer of this lousy article in the head.
Oh and howcome goth bands are being named and nobody mentioned JOY DIVISION?

[jack_1313]

Note: I have not read all these comments. I can?t speak for everyone here.
I believe there is a misunderstanding surrounding the term 'goth' used by the writer and the term 'goth' used by many of those who have replied.
It seems that when the writer applies 'goth' he is referring to bands such as Slipknot and Maralyn Manson.
Those who have taken offence by this article are taking 'goth' as Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation, Nightwish, Evanescence (debatable) etc. As it stands, I don't think the writer is attacking these bands. Goth seems to have a different meaning depending on the speaker - those who are not into 'goth' music think of goth as Manson etc. Those who are into 'goth' music think of goth as LC etc.
Let?s take Lacuna Coil as a prime example and try to match it with the description given by the writer. The writer describes ?goth? as lacking riffs, falling short on the guitar, lacking guitar solos, accompanied by vocalists who can?t sing but instead scream their lungs out, being influential in a ?be a rebel? way, and being dominated by image. Anyone who has heard LC (or any of the bands I have mentioned) knows that this description is almost opposite to the band. Then furthermore consider Nightwish (classified as ?opera metal?) and note the opera singer, the focus on guitar work, the orchestral element and realise the difference.
I disagree with anyone writing and publishing articles about how much they hate a certain type of music. It?s absurd ? why can?t people just listen to what they like and not listen to what they don?t? What did Slipknot do to the writer? Insult his family? I for one could not care less if someone else does not like my taste in music (which is not Slipknot btw).
However, if this writer makes a mistake, it seems to be in not exploring the term ?goth? enough before writing the article. The fact is that ?goth? is so indefinable, always up in the air, and it is very difficult to use it in a way that everyone will understand.
Someone asked me what style of music I listen to and I replied by saying ?It?s usually called gothic metal?.
The person in question then said ?Oh, Maralyn Manon?.
?Not that sort of thing at all. Bands like Lacuna Coil?.
(?Who??)
As previously mention, the bands the writer labels are not considered goth at all by those who claim to know their goth music. It seems like a misunderstanding.
Anyhow, many of those noting that the bands in this article are not ?goth? seem to actually agree with the writer on everything except the use of the term.

Jackson Allan

[jack_1313]

Addition:
I don't like Korn, but why would I ever go around telling people who like Korn how much I don't? What do I stand to gain? Articles like this are demoting individuality.

Jackson Allan

[Super_Sexy_Owen]

I agree that most gothic rock is fairly easy to play, this guy went a little overboard on these bands. I do hope that the old days of rock and roll with come back soon

[monkeyspks]

well.... i dunno. this was pretty biased and not very well written. stop writing biased articles... well ok of course everything is going to be biased, i know, but could you not make bias the reason for your article???

[HedBanger24/7]

This article SUCKS!!!! It is all opinion!! NO FACTS!! Playing a double neck or acoustic guitar doesn't make you better!! I am not a big Marylin Manson fan but I love Korn!! Korns not goth!! People listen to and play what they want!! This belongs in the forums, post your CRAP somewhere else!!!..

[dwnbowden]

I dont like any of the bands that you've said are gothic but none of them are actually gothic you fool. Marilyn Manson is industrial metal, Slipknot is nu-metal and so is Korn so really you are a bit out of order posting this. Also Justin Hawkins is nowhere near as good as Slash and Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen in fact compared to them he doesnt even deserve to pick up a guitar and anyway he isnt the lead guitrist of the darkness. The only thing you got right is that some of that stuff is piss easy to play cos I got my guitar this christmas and I can play quite a bit of tht stuff.

[ystl]

the author is plain stupid,

[JJHx1987]

It seems like you are defining gothic music by the bands style of dress. I really hate you people.

[JJHx1987]

You say that their guitar sucks but listen to The Drapery Falls by Opeth. I hear more guitar in this "gothic music" than any other type of music. Of course, I'm not sure what makes it "gothic" but people seem to call Opeth, Dream Theater, and Symphony X black metal which sounds like gothic.

[Mr. Clean]

I dont like them but Korn and Slipknot are NOT goth lol

[samurai_jack_69]

FUKIN A!!! all hail to the old skool rockers, god bless the darkness, jet and VR and all the other newbies getting into the rock n roll scene

[samurai_jack_69]

and he say MM and KORN suck, fuk dude i hope u rott in heaven, with the rest of the faggots

[ste_57]

why the hell are u argueing for so long over some dim witt who doesnt know his arse from his dick, u like what type of music u like, no need to argue over it. its not gothic music thats "destroying" talented bands, its the music industry itself, the corporate bastards behind it... every type of music is good in some way, and for ***s sake stop labelling urself's

[acrocks]

i thought dan hawkins played lead in the darkness

[mercedesisbenz]

wtf hawkins can in no way be compared to those artists... and are you saying that all anyone has to do to get respect is pick up a double neck and an acoustic? you're an idiot-- however, i do agree that all this gothic/nu-metal stuff is COMPLETE garbage.

[erling]

This is THE worst shit I have EVER read..you dont got a clue!

[FeatherBreeze]

dude i agree with you but come on you could have done this more gracefully, goth music isnt what you called it slipknot and slayer and COF and bands like them are for people one step above metallica manson is there with GC and other crap like that. but you have inspired me, to piss you off im gonna go rebel by listening to linkin park and cutting myself

lol

[JDawg]

The whole goth scence sucks. soon it will be a dieing fad, and real talent will emerge. Even if his rant sucked, I was still smart enough to know where he was comin from. Grow up poeple.

[ZimKnot]

Slipknot plays a shitload of acoustic and Korn, MM, and SK are all nuMetal

[oppressor]

"When Rock N Roll was born, it was based around the guitar. Therefore when Rock bands play, they must have talented guitarists that can play in their own unique style."

I agree just because I'm a guitarist Ha!Ha!
UP THE IRONS! bitches.

[RainbowBaby]

Everything i wanted to say about this rediculous rant has already been said, so just for the record...plurals don't have an apostrophe before the s. (goth's, etc.)







tool.

[THE-FOOL67]

When rock and roll began, it was actually centered around the piano. Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Fats Domino. The first record producer the beatles went to turned them down because he said that guitar playing wasnt popular. This article may be opinionated but the writer has that right to post his opinion. Thats what all of you are doing. I dont know why they call it goth music. Gothic style has nothing to do with black, it was a period in Europe before the renaissance. But I dont like "Goth" music, I think Mairlyn Manson is a freak and I dont care what any goths have to say. The Stones werent just simple chords, Keith Richards turned the open G tuning into a popular sound. No body else was doing that. And finally, Justin Hawkins, is a pretty talented guitarist, I couldnt compare him to Page or Clapton but he has some skill. hendrix is over-rated, too over-rated.

[bluesrockgod_22]

Ok first before saying anything like everyone else said, people can listen to whatever they want no matter what genre!! now that ive said that... To everyone who said that some of this "goth"music has harder parts than the bands he mentioned.... JIMMY F*** PAGE destroys all of those guitarists easily. Case in point the song white summer. its just brialliant. also all of u who say it is hard to play all that goth shit.. you don't know what the hell your talking about its easy as hell. you up and down pick over a coule of 1 finger drop d chords THATS ALL! try playing some clapton and then come back and say that goth is harder u dumbasses. obviously u suck at guitar if u think goth music is hard... but i could care less if u listen to it so have a nice day.

[Bluhhy]

Ok I agree that the good old rock 'n roll is great and that the solos are great but you cannot break down the music of manson and korn and whatever gothic group you hate! mansons john 5 was a extremely talented guitarist (listen to his solo album!) but the solos just don't fit in the style of manson! You can say what you want but manson has extremely great riffs! they are simple but why not? it doesn't have to be hard to sound great! and I think that simple riffs are stimulating for new guitarists. The riffs are not that hard and they are a good starter... if you would say against a new guitarist that he should learn sweet child o mine or paradise city... well I think many would drop of!
oh well I listen to all kinds of rock and they all have something great about them...

[axeslinger01]

punk was the first music too only have sa few chords and no solo and it rocks

[johnnycashCLASH]

wtf? this guy is a ***in dickhead
goth is great and music dosent have to be complicated to be gd, like punk and reggae

[wireless89]

Jon Davis wears a ***ing red kilt and Prince Charlie! How does this qualify him for your description, Mr Unregistered Twat For Brains?

[ac//dc_RULZ]

people like it, its music, deal with it

[THE-FOOL67]

I dont know about you "goths", you can take your witch craft and your shitty music and shove it straight up your ass for all I care. You can talk to different guitarists about the skill level it takes to play that noise you call music and the "experts" agree, its not complicated.

[animefreak15]

pathetic loser. yeah right.

[ebashnitzil]

goth is just Nu-Metal and it sucks

but you cannot generalize rock as just guitar - there are very very talented guitarists who do not traditionaly solo in their songs or play double necks...but they play very difficult melody and leads and complex or very very very fast beated chord alinments (im having trouble thinking of the sp for that word...)...and they are just as amazing

but yeah, Manson, Korn, and Slipknot can burn in hell Nu-Metal fuckass posers ('Goths' - *** them - since when is Hate a good thing?? Some kids think SLipknot is cool for their hatred...how is HATE a good thing???)

Love should be the one to create aural art

[lacey_the_crazy]

Yes, of course! Now it all makes sense to me!...you must play a double-necked guitar to be a good musician. And all this time I thought it took talkent. (Just like you need to wear a top hat to play a decent solo, right?) I'm sorry man, but wow. It's never a good idea to post a rant like this, especially one that's so close-minded.

[lacey_the_crazy]

Whoopsie...talk about your spelling errors.
*talent

[Peculiar_Lies]

This rant sucks, but so do allmost all of your comments. No, Slipknot, Korn and Manson aren't goth bands and you must be realy stupid to say otherwise. But when you start to act such a musical experts... sorry, but you're no better than the author of this crap... To call black metal bands goth? That's the dumbiest thing I've ever heard. They never were goth and never will be. Then later you mention such "goth" bands like Nightwish, Lacuna Coil and Him. They're not goth. They're just some commercial mainstream bands that've been labeled 'goth' by mass-media, but the truth is they're not gother than Britney Spears. Goth bands are such as Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Joy Division, Christian Death, Alien Sex Fiend, The Sisters of Mercy, The Mission etc. And the best "knowledge" was demonstrated when someone called Manson's music 'industrial'. What a ***? Have you ever heard about Skinny Puppy? Front Line Assembly? Velvet Acid Christ? Suicide Commando? These are industrial bands, not Manson.

[mesmeric]

I agree with Peculiar_Lies:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Two thumbs up!

Marylin Manson is nu/black metal. Not gothic you a-hole!

[me_myself_and_i]

haha, what is gothic music? marylyn manson one of hte first artists to use a few power chords, scream and lots of distrotion! haha, no way, the author knows very little music history.....

[Punk lives on]

sorry mate but you must have lernt your music histry from the back of ceral packet! no riffs??? lost prophets or one day elliot but to name some brit bads whose songs are packed with riffs!

[properBo]

disgree with the whole darkness thing

[madbasslover]

I'm so sick of people like you who totally trash on different styles of music. Rock has SEVERAL different forms! Gothic doesn't have solos because they would ruin the mood of the music! Gothic rock is meant to have a certain ambience to it, and if someone starts pounding out a Hendrix style guitar riff during the middle of a gothic rock song, it'll be as out of place as a headbanger at a 50 Cent concert! Secondly, Korn is NOT goth rock!!! Korn is hard rock alternative, you idiot! And for your information, he doesn't sing about his parents just because! The lead singer of Korn had a troubled past, he's not just following a stupid cliche! Third, Slipknot is NOT goth metal either. They're farther from it than Korn. Slipknot is alternative metal and nu metal. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what Manson is, but I know he isn't goth rock either. Keep in mind, you idiot, goth rock is the music, not the look. Yeah, the band looks dark, but they don't play that way! If you're gonna trash a style of music that is obviously different from the one you're supporting, it's a pointless, stupid argument, and you should least understand what goth band is before categorizing hard rock bands in that category!!! Idiot!!! >

[madbasslover]

I'm so sick of people like you who totally trash on different styles of music. Rock has SEVERAL different forms! Gothic doesn't have solos because they would ruin the mood of the music! Gothic rock is meant to have a certain ambience to it, and if someone starts pounding out a Hendrix style guitar riff during the middle of a gothic rock song, it'll be as out of place as a headbanger at a 50 Cent concert! Secondly, Korn is NOT goth rock!!! Korn is hard rock alternative, you idiot! And for your information, he doesn't sing about his parents just because! The lead singer of Korn had a troubled past, he's not just following a stupid cliche! Third, Slipknot is NOT goth metal either. They're farther from it than Korn. Slipknot is alternative metal and nu metal. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what Manson is, but I know he isn't goth rock either. Keep in mind, you idiot, goth rock is the music, not the look. Yeah, the band looks dark, but they don't play that way! If you're gonna trash a style of music that is obviously different from the one you're supporting, it's a pointless, stupid argument, and you should least understand what a goth band is before categorizing hard rock bands in that category!!! Idiot!!! >

[Led Zeppelin201]

"u have the worst examples for bands and goth bands require alot more skill then these other bands u talked about like rolling stones, rolling stones suck so much it isn't funny, i doubt u even have half the skill to play a "goth" song so don't judge what u can't even do urself"



your a retard the stones suck? man ive never seen a halfway decent goth band before and secondly ive never seen a goth band any were near the Stones

[_3Dblasphemy_]

i think by "goth music" you actually mean nu metal. yes nu metal is shit. but not because of the lots of distortion - proper metal bands use that as well. and that sitting down and playing an acoustic? our talking out of your arse mate.

[xa.black.heartx]

Hey some so called "gothic" music as you call it is fukin crazy take the band "meshuggah" fukin 8 stringers dropped down to g and all there riffs are basically random solos it blows your mind.

[Rasonastos]

good post madbasslover

[Gr1m R34p3r]

Wow, what a douchebag

[Nightmare666]

Marilyn Manson, KoRn and Slipknot are not goth music. They're Nu-Metal,dumb ass.

[wheresmymonkey]

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt..... God.... Guns and Roses?! I didn't even have to READ the rest of the article after I saw that!

[zombieskater]

dude not cool.

[masterirvin]

ha ha well you know what i dont see a problem with no music but rather people you people agree or not MUSIC has declined over the years its a simple fact guitarists just arent as good as they used to be ..and yes the guy who posted this article is stupid cause i like acdc and killswitch engage and i think they are both great sure one is classick rock and the other is heavy metal but its what i like and i dont care what anyone else tells me sure people cant bust solos like van halen or hendrix anymore but who cares i like metal and i dont care what anyone says

[masterirvin]

*new music my bad

[undeaded]

Hey, guys new music isnt bad. It's the bad lyrics,hate, and screaming ruining it all. Goths, I don't think originated from G'n'R. But as i have seen kids grow older, they start to like the older stuff.

I used to listen to linkin park, and now i regret it all, no talent really, same with Marilyn Manson.

Velvet Revolver has really brought back the 'roll' to recent events. They havent stepped over th overdone line, and made everything bad.

Listening to Velvet Revolver made me go out and buy G'n'R, and AcDc albums. If some of these new 'nu-matal' or goth bands actually listened to the solos, proper riffs of these bands maybe the talent would be brought back.

Long live VR (mainly Slash :p)

[jk88]

u basically say anything that isnt classic rock sucks.. ur just stating ur opinion... it means nothing. i i dont really like goth but i disagree with a lot of what you're saying

[danceXcore]

wow so how bout them one sided articles. classic rock isnt the only kind of music aroudn anymore and even though it is good the bands that use distortion still ahve an amazing amount of talent. even though they scream they still sing.although i do not liek any of the bands u listed as goth. this article is completly close minded and a waste to read, and for your 3 or 4 chord bands you forgot acdc.

[mesmeric]

Ugh people! Korn, Slipknot and manson are not goth! Manson just found a style that appealed to the masses and made a buttload of money. Most true gothic musicians wouldn't have their music played on mass radio stations. Manson does.

True goth bands are like.. The bauhaus, Christian death, sisters of mercy... ect.
The cure is associated with the gothic sub-culture but they aren't really a gothic band.
Plus.. not all gothic people listen to just gothic music either. We happen to like, Industrial and classical too.

When you see these little "gawth" posers on the street with their hateful looks and their stupid manson shirts, don't give them the satisfaction of calling them goth. They are "gawth" Fake ass posers.

*sigh* Whatever..... You can't seem to get it....

[mesmeric]

Another note... True goth has never been the same after the stuck up rich kids got a hold of it.

Treu gothicism is the love of the dark, morbid and sad parts of life. Love of philosophey, art,
literature, and anything in the pursuit of higher learning. We love the victorian era life, dress, and manerisms. Also victorian style horror books

[mesmeric]

There's a book at hot-topic. Read it.. Although I despise hot-topic, you should read that book. It'll help your feeble brain grasp what goth is.
It's called "What is Goth". It's not the best description but it'll be easy for you to understand.

[damnation]

This guy is the dumbest dumb *** ever

[perkele]

this article is complete bullshit, if you're gonna criticize some form of music by writing an article, then would it be so much to ask that you would at least do your research. You seem to have no clue at all about goth bands and how goth originated.Korn and Slipknot are not goth, there not even gothmetal, you got all your facts wrong. And then you use some of the most clichéd examples of rock music as your defence. This is a terrible article.

[spike4887]

Excuse me, Slipknot DID do Acoustic songs. On their New CD, "Vermillion Pt. 2" and "Circle" are two beautifully composed and played pieces of acoustic bliss. You ignorant ***

[EXSILIUM]

stfu you ignorant dumbass. do some research before you judge. slipknot is not goth theyre nu-metal. pick up a guitar and try to play some of the "goth" music you listed, second, i dont know how the hell this got posted as an article, third the darkness sucks ass compared to metal, justin hawkins cant do shit... and i hate you.

[Mental Hop]

That's pretty terrible. To think that one style of music is better than another. It's not fact it's opinion. My ears can't stand dark metal or goth bands but also can't stand people who bash without any real direction. My idea is we should stop bickering on which music is better and unite because, in case you haven't noticed, rap and hip-hop is taking over while each little sector of rock fans bitch and complain about whose better. Well if you really want rock music to stay alive in any form then you'd better put you differences aside and start making catchier/better songs that people can grab onto or rock will die. I have no problem with rap and hip-hop, I even enjoy some rappers, but I do realize that rock acts are flailing while rap artists flourish. In twenty years, if you want to hear a guitar on the radio then pick up your guitars, basses and drumsticks and start playing. Music won't make itself.

[zeebie]

How about In-Flames? If you deny their ability towards guitar, listen to theyre album Colony. If you disagree still, go to hell.

[Lacquer_Head]

dude, the guitarists of the "goth" bands you named are amazing..

[Lacquer_Head]

oh and ehm rock music ISN'T about beeing amazing at guitar..

[punkrockdude455]

SLIPKNOT BLOW!!!

[Face of Melinda]

This articles is shit. i mean whoever the *** you are, fisrt of all don't call slipknot or korn goth bands because they're not. second of all goth music rocks, look at type o negative u ignorant shit. they are one of the most talented bands out there but they'll probobaly be too complex for a two- bit crackhead like you. FUCKING CUNT.

[Bluhhy]

Oh by the way Marilyn Manson DID have a acoustic show and he HAS some acoutic songs. And another thing, John5 does use e doubleneck sometimes.. if you want to break down something make sure you know what you are talking about!

[the_cheat22]

Great guitarists use accoustics to break down songs. They even use double neck guitars, which probably symbolises a good band sinse all the greats have used them.

man, there is no basis to those facts. Just because they don't use acoustic doesn't mean they aren't good. I don't see because I don't own an acoustic guitar doesn't make me a good guitarist. I play what I want to play and what others want to hear. If you don't like it shut the hell up.

In Flames rules and has an awesome guitar part, as does many other bands.

Don't use words like "probably" like you did like an infinity of times, it just shows how ignorant you are "Goths probably stole music from GNR..." Know your facts and not assumptions "the writer IS an idiot"

What the hell is "gothic music" anyway... I thought that was a way to dress. You seem to have mixed up Heavy/Death Metal with a clothing line or something. Classic NOOB mistake buddy.

Anyways, this is the crappiest article ever on UG... and I think most of the members here would agree. Who even let him publish this piece crap???

[MechAnimal666]

i started reading this, then had to stop as i inhaled my own tounge in rage. you must be one of the most closed minded people i know, there arent many people i would say this to but you deserve all the flaming you got from this article, and ill tell you the last time i saw marilyn manson sit down and do an acoustic song, every ***ing time he does a concert, every acoustic song he has ever done has been among my all time favorite songs...

AAA..RRR..GGH there is no words to describe the amount of rage im feeling at the moment.

[The Antichrist]

houwbout you die.....

[The Antichrist]

houwbout you die.....
houwbout you die.....
houwbout you die.....
houwbout you die.....
houwbout you die.....
houwbout you die.....
have a nice day in hell

[askurmoran]

this is seriously a pile of shit dude first of all KoRn is not gothic rock or marylin manson this is all crap and wouldnt these styles come from metal not Rock 'n roll. and last know ur crap dumbass

[suicideangel_2]

you cant go round saying somthing is untalented its opinien and why are u saying all this anyway why is society giving "goth" a bad name and stop missusing the word goth, goth came from the germanic tribe you twats thats where my ancestrs are from

[pkbarbiedoll]

none of that shit is gothic you nitwits. Not manson, not korn not slipnot and esepcially not the cure.

Fucking get your facts straight before claiming your misguided subcultural identities.

[robert_from_ap]

Your a fool - and a guitar player, which are often the same thing.

Firstly, Goth Music is not "Rock". Secondly, guitar players need to get over the thought that they are the most important part of music. The 80's have ended, and NOBODY wants to hear a guitar solo anymore, not even most guitar players I know. Most of the goth music I listen to has no guitar in it. The BETTER Goth music has no guitar.

...and finally, you haven?t listed a SINGLE Goth band. Your listing Shock Rock, not Goth.

Lastly, I'm guessing the only thing you know about music you learned form Guitar Magazine. I challenge you to write a composition WITHOUT guitar, and make it rock.

In fact, you name the ***ing instruments, and we'll each write a record a song, and I guaranty mine will ROCK ALL THE FUCK OVER yours. You ready to put your talent were your mount is, you little six string punk?

- Robert
www.AbneyPark.com
(a GOTH band)

[mesmeric]

none of that shit is gothic you nitwits. Not manson, not korn not slipnot and esepcially not the cure.

I agree but the cure is a fav with most goth people. Myself included. The cure looks goth most certianly.. but don't sing goth... as I have said many times above...

Ugh people! Korn, Slipknot and manson are not goth! Manson just found a style that appealed to the masses and made a buttload of money. Most true gothic musicians wouldn't have their music played on mass radio stations. Manson does.

True goth bands are like.. The bauhaus, Christian death, sisters of mercy... ect.
The cure is associated with the gothic sub-culture but they aren't really a gothic band.
Plus.. not all gothic people listen to just gothic music either. We happen to like, Industrial and classical too.

When you see these little "gawth" posers on the street with their hateful looks and their stupid manson shirts, don't give them the satisfaction of calling them goth. They are "gawth" Fake ass posers.

*sigh* Whatever..... You can't seem to get it....

[mesmeric]

that last qoute is mine btw...

[x_fatal_dawn_x]

Your little rant sucks, do some actual research next time. I wonder if you've ever even heard a real goth band before. Probably not.

[ mesmeric:
Ugh people! Korn, Slipknot and manson are not goth! Manson just found a style that appealed to the masses and made a buttload of money. Most true gothic musicians wouldn't have their music played on mass radio stations. Manson does.

True goth bands are like.. The bauhaus, Christian death, sisters of mercy... ect.
The cure is associated with the gothic sub-culture but they aren't really a gothic band.
Plus.. not all gothic people listen to just gothic music either. We happen to like, Industrial and classical too.

When you see these little "gawth" posers on the street with their hateful looks and their stupid manson shirts, don't give them the satisfaction of calling them goth. They are "gawth" Fake ass posers.]

I agree with you mesmeric. And that book you mentioned earlier was written by Voltaire. I love Voltaire.

And....

[In fact, you name the ***ing instruments, and we'll each write a record a song, and I guaranty mine will ROCK ALL THE FUCK OVER yours. You ready to put your talent were your mount is, you little six string punk? ]

I wouldn't want to take him up on that if I were you because I've heard his band before and he's right, you would get your ass kicked.

[IlIk2plygUItAr]

dude, suck my nuts.

p.s. and u have so much talent???.. if u did u wouldnt be so fukin close minded.

[6minpants]

i agree... this type of music is just nothing but trash. no talent.. and all they seem to do is make a mock of the original rock and roll. i agree with you 100%

[lost_it_again]

don't EVER bad mouth slipknot, mick thompson is a shred god and you're an idiot if you even try to deny it. You know why kids stopped listening to what you like to call 'rock 'n' roll'? cos it lacks emotion, you can't relate to some old drunkard ranting on about the first jibberish that came to mind when he was writing a song, the way you're putting it the addition of self expression killed music and that is not the case. And another thing do you honestly think that the great guitar gods you've mentioned above share your opinion, no i sincerely hope not because they can see talent and they arn't as single minded as you, remember the fact that you don't like something dosn't make it bad. i don't like you and does that make you bad? no it makes you an asshole. the nerve of some people

[RedNovember]

Listen here. The 'goth' culture originated with the Goth tribe. I think someone else already said this. But that's beside the point. None of the bands you posted are goth bands. Besides, what makes someone "goth" anyway? Because they wear black? Because they wear make-up? Or because they're different from you? Yes, some 'goth' bands lack talent. I'll give you that. But to bad-mouth Korn, Slipknot, and Manson? No. What I think is funny is that you don't even realize that THEY AREN'T GOTH GROUPS!!! What makes Slipknot goth, the fact that they have heavy riffs with screaming vocals? Korn isn't gothic in the least, and Manson...Well, Manson's just f.ucked up in the head. Those bands fall under the "Nu-Metal" category. Goth metal includes bands like Dimmu Borgir, Type O Negative, Lacuna Coil, and others. Oh, and Justin Hawkins doesn't play anything but the virst blurb of a solo in "I Believe In A Thing Called Love", the other guitarist does the rest. I wish people wouldn't post here unless they're informed...Oh well. Retards online will do whatever they want, I suppose.

[LedZepplin64]

personaly, i ahve to agree with the dude who wrote the article. Most Manson songs are distortion and creppy whispering ( which is pretty much impossible to understand) and screaming. I also agree with other people that posted. But if you think about it, you dont have to be great to be famous. Take Nirvana, or a more recent example Green Day, they play a couple power chords a song ( excluding acoustics) and they were topped high on the charts. The reason id that they cool catchy riffs and solos. I think they were the bands I played when i was learning and I thought it wqas cool that an awesome song was so easy. SOOO, all the crap about being untalented because of only playing a couple chords in each section of the song doesn't make a song bad, in fact, most of ACDC riffs are three major chords( back in black-E,D,A). So inconclusion, I may not like "goth" but some things in this article are crap.

and that was the longest reponse ive ever wrote


LED ZEPPELIN RULES, RIP KURT ( davey's got ur back)

[LedZepplin64]

Nightmare666:
Marilyn Manson, KoRn and Slipknot are not goth music. They're Nu-Metal,dumb ass.

I DONT REALLY CARE THEY ALL SUCK

[TheFluffy]

u do all realize ur saying that the stones suck...even though they were probly the biggest band ever...i agree mostly with this guy

[Melian]

You, my friend, are a dumbass. An absolute dumbass, and I'm going to tell you why.

Just because every single song by these "goth" bands (we'll get to that later) isn't 11 minutes long with a soaring guitar solo that bores the crowd to death doesn't mean that they're untalented, you elitist bigot!

Okay, first off, the goth culture started before Guns 'n Roses had started making music. Siouxsie and the Banshees and the [Easy] Cure sported the look long before Axl Rose was out there making an idiot of himself. Goth has been around longer than this GnR stuff, therefore there is no evidence of anyone ripping anyone off.

Manson, KoRn, and Slipknot? Goth? No. KoRn and Slipknot are numetal. Manson is just...Manson. None of those bands are even close to what goth really is, but you wouldn't know that because you are too closeminded to care.

What is your thing with acoustic guitars? Sure, acoustics kick ass, but you don't HAVE to play one in order to be a "great". And no, I've never heard Manson sit down and play an acoustic, probably because Manson isn't a trained guitarist. I have, however, heard MW Gacy sit down and play an acoustic.

To put it simply, the guy who wrote this article is a closeminded dumbass and deserves to die. The end.

[Jack3n665.5]

well I get it, now ill right a article dissing metal b/c godsmack and disturbed suck. Fucking moron.

[Thrashmetal92]

closed minded and bias
you need to get with the times man. the darkness was a great achievement in the music industry but so was manson.

[splice]

as much as i hate gothic music and everything about a gothic lifestyle,there aint nothin wrong with some distortion man

[4ero]

lol every single comment is how dumbfuked this guy is
i hope he commits suicide

[Chaos Maggot]

Ok, Slipknot isn't ***ing nu-metal, they do have one or two songs with I guess what you could call "rap" and some of their songs have scratch effects and such. And most(if not all) of this is is on their first album). Idk how the hell to describe them, but it's not nu-.

And also, Mick Thomson and Jim Root are both ***ing insane guitar players, in Pulse of the Maggots they each do a solo (Mick first, and then Mick stops and Jim seamlessly starts right where Mick left off), and in Opium of the People there's another insane solo.

Plus, they have plenty of ***in' acoustic.

Douchebag.

[mortiis999]

What the *** is this? It is insulting to people who suffer with depression to suggest we all are suicidal and listen to Marylin Manson. And what is "goth music" by your loose definition. You realise, that "goth" rock has existed for decades, it didnt start with MM or HIM or whatever. I really hope this is a joke

[Benben]

You mentioned "Stop Watching MTV"; so let me guess what channel you spend your time watching then?
"But I watch MTV:2" you'll say, "and Kerrang!" which is just as bad, in my opinion and many others.
You want to "Revive Rock and Roll" do you, well you should start listening to it then, seen as Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix ect are Hard/Classic Rock.
Also if you don't like Goths then ignore them, personally I hate EMOs, winging little brats, but I don't write a Colum on it.

So start using your other head.

[HedBangn2Atreyu]

"RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT!!!!" Thats about all I got out your article. While I do like solo's and less distortion and singers that can actually sing, doesnt mean that's what everyone likes. Sure rock started out that way, but whos to say it cant chang efor the better? The human race has been improving itself since the begging of time...im not saying Marilynn Manson is an improvement on the old Rock&Roll, but the point is that individually we are one person. Bands like Marilynn Manson are that popular because believe it or not, PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARENT THE ONLY GODAMN PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!

[s_fall20]

whoever wrote this is a stupid moron. a band doesn't need solos and complicated music (although thats what i listen to) to make it good. who cares? as long as people like goth doesn't meen you have to so this writer should shut up. why does everyone talk about how great classic rock was? SHUT THE F*** UP!!! there is still great music today, its just not as popular.

[Keryan]

.....
to call Marilyn Manson, Korn, Slipknot goth is an insult to goths everywhere.....
read this page to get an inkling to what goth is all about: www.gothmetal.net
.....

[Keryan]

and yea, i wont call you a bastard...
cuz that would be an insult to bastards EVERYWHERE...

[WeirdMariachi]

Ok Ok I'm not gonna insult the guy or say whats goth or not BUT !!!.. SOME goth music does not suck we all know that, BUT ..14 year olds who think there goth do suck. "Oh look at me I'm all dark and evil cus I wear black and eyeliner, I hate everyone and I wanna kill my self cus my mom makes me wash dishes and she tells me to do my homework and clean my room. Oooh poor me and how I suffer so much.

[President Dead]

this needs to be removed

[wombat123]

ha! yeah goths suck. write on brother

[BritRock]

nice article, but yr discription of goth is punk (couple of chords with a very short if any solo) with distortion. Fair enough. Oh yeah, aint oasis rock n roll?

[ac//dc_RULZ]

u ppl havent seen the videos to these bands, watch there hands they can go faster than an 80's band, thats harder to do that solos that last 20 min

[kurtshapedbox]

Umm.. dude black metal. Have you ever heard of black metal? Cradle Of Filth, Decide, Dimmu Borgir are far from ruining music. And I respect your opinion, but I believe the singer in the rolling stones is far from very talented, though they are a good band.

[GAC1989]

From reading the title of this article my thoughts were "shut the *** up"

[Gothic_ed]

First of sorry if its already been said but i have a lot to say to this idiot

1:since when did goth copy guns 'n roses. Guns 'n
roses formed in 1985 and modern goth emerged in the very early 80s.

2:since when is korn goth?

3: justin hawkins isn't even the lead guitarist in the darkness, his brother is.

4:Since when does a solo need to be fast to be good. Fast solos are good but there are other good solos. And sweet child of mine until the big solo only has about 3 chords in it.

In conclusion the writer of this article is a fool who should learn what goth is before writing about it, its a way of life and contrary to popular belief you dont have to wear black or listen to heavy music to be gothn nor does doing so make you goth.
Also learning something about music other than what they assume to be good because they like it might be helpful

[Lyf]

This was wrong in so many ways.

[AllPlayDead666]

this was horrible, and it's nice you call all that nu metal "goth" great column man, shows you didn't even try!

[mesmeric]

Greetings...

- qoute- Benben:
Also if you don't like Goths then ignore them, personally I hate EMOs, winging little brats, but I don't write a Colum on it. - qoute-

amen!!!.. hhehehe my g/f b/f broke up with me.. I'm going to cut myself.. oh get over...
Like the great Kurt Cobain said:
My heart is broke but I have some glue, help me inhale and mend it with you.. And to some people that have written in this article... NIRVANA DOES NOT SUCK... grr.... *evil glare* *pulls out sword... * *attacks AUGH!!!*hehe random moment

- qoute- WeirdMariachi:
Ok Ok I'm not gonna insult the guy or say whats goth or not BUT !!!.. SOME goth music does not suck we all know that, BUT ..14 year olds who think there goth do suck. "Oh look at me I'm all dark and evil cus I wear black and eyeliner, I hate everyone and I wanna kill my self cus my mom makes me wash dishes and she tells me to do my homework and clean my room. Oooh poor me and how I suffer so much. - qoute-

First of... poser "gawths" like to cut themselves.. most "true goths" (even though most gloom cookies died out in the 80's) are not suicidal. Unless the are vamps then you have to cut yourself to drink the blood.
like I said.. stuck up rick brats have ruined it for use gloom cookies. And where do some people get off saying you can't be goth if you listen to any other type music.. augh!

I need to go vent.. Goodnight

[phyro]

ha! *** you! every musician is talented.... ,,l,,

[Rune Playaz]

i dont care wat u say... KORN IS NOT GOTHIC... ***en retard

[Wolfv11]

dear asshole of this article, you bash manson, go check this guy out www.john-5.com this psycho used to play in manson, on his last record theres a note from Steve Vai, the master himself, saying how underated this guy is, manson also is one of the only true artists in todays world, perhaps youve seen similar "scary" people while their not with their band or not on tour and they look like normal people, manson looks the way he does in his make up 24/7, and as far as korn goes, korn kicks ass and their not goth, and manson isnt goth either, manson is more industrial metal. go ahead and say goth is untalented, just remember, Jonh 5 can kick your ass!

[syunikiss]

A brief history of goth music: late seventies, in England, Siouxsie and the Banshees took the punk movement to a new level with [even more] androgynous visuals, fascist symbollism, and darker lyrics. As far as most are concerned, goth was born right then and there. There was no "goth" sound at first--indisputably 'goth' bands like Joy Division, the Cure, and Sisters of Mercy are about a different as they come. All, however, were revolutionary...and far better than nu-metal bands like Korn or Slipknot!
Before you write such an insulting rant, at least do your homework. Perhaps then your time and efforts won't be so counter-productive!

[Dogwillhunt]

Ok... let's get something straight here. First of all, syunikiss, you're absolutely right. Siouxsie and the Banshees were pioneers of the original gothrock movement. The Cure, Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, NIN, Marilyn Manson, Tool, etc... they've all had their hands in the gothrock barrel (especially The Cure with Robert Smith's pale face and red lipstick) Then of course there was David Bowie with as much androgeny as anyone, but everyone here is arguing over what genre all these bands fit in. "Goth" or gothic is not a form of music, it's not a style, it's not a genre. Goth is a state of mind... that's it. For instance, if I went out wearing all black clothing with white makeup all over my face I wouldn't be goth, I'd be either a mime, a depressed clown, or a bank robber. However, if I add dark or depressing lyrics to my songs and act like I'm dejected all the time then people would think, hey, he's sooo.. goth, look at how goth he is! Korn may have stuck their hands in the goth bucket a time or two and maybe Slipknot... I said maybe so don't stone me. All I know is this... EVERY and I do mean EVERY band or artist ever since rock and roll was invented has had some kind of gimmick. That gimmick is their calling card, it's what they do to sell their music. It's like legal prostitution. So if an element of goth is present when these artists whore themselves out to the public... SO WHAT!?!? Those people that are attracted to that certain element of goth... they can relate to that artist without having to dive head first into the stinking, depressive, hate-myself-and-the-freaking-sun-and-want-to-die attitude or "lifestyle" (for lack of a better word) that we shamelessly throw in everyone's face under the moniker of "Goth". Personally, I think Tina Yothers looks a little better with a "goth" gimmick.

[Dogwillhunt]

In addition, I would just like to say that just because you don't like a certain artist, it doesn't mean they don't have any talent. It only means they have a better gimmick than you do. Of course this is an exception for Britney Spears, whose talent is still to this day is lacking... but she's got other ASSets working for her. She certainly has some TITtilating gimmicks.

[cab00se]

ok first of, YOU ARE A GOD DAMN MORON!!! ok now that i got that out of my system, what the hell is this about slipknot not having any solos or acoustic songs...i dont even like slipknot and i know this, holy crap kid your even more uninformed about this stuff then i am and thats saying somthing...cuz i dont listen to much "goth rock" but what i do takes a hell of a lot of talent, and yes all the bands u said were good rock (rolling stones, jimmy hendirx) ya there good but still there is talent in goth metal or rock or whatever the hell you want to call it...

o ya by the way everyone goth is a state of mind, not a form of dressing...granted most goths dress in black, but just because your favorite color of clothing is black dosnt make you gothic...

[Dogwillhunt]

"Why Your Favorite Artist Sucks"

I will try to stay on topic as much as my A.D.D. will allow me, so bear with me. I realize I will probably get flamed for this, but keep in mind that these are my opinions and they are the only opinions that matter because my @$$ doesn't stink.

..First off, I'd just like to say that Goth music is untalented and... uh... gay... and, um... it's um... stupid and that goes for all Goth bands from, like, Wham! all the way to, um... like, Debbie Gibson and Cyndi Lauper. Goth is so stupid because the corporations listen to goth and they sit in their corporate offices and they make money and they're like, corporations and corporations make money and listen to goth and they're all like just, corporate...ey. Goth artists such as Justin Timberlake, Danny DeVito and M.C. Hammer suck and I'm not sure if X-tina Aguilera is goth or not but she like, died her hair black for a while. But like, there's like eleventeen goth bands that just suck and they're like sooo.. untalented cuz they, like, don't... um... where was I? Anyways, that is why I think Britney Spears should be president. With Liberty and Justice For All. Amen.

-- Geoff --

[cab00se]

...wow...and i thought i was bad....

[Dogwillhunt]

"How To Make People Mad At You, Part 1"

I will try to stay on topic as much as humanly possible, so excuse any mistakes I might make. Keep in mind that these are my opinions and not yours, so they're the only ones that count.
There are certain things to keep in mind when pissing people off:
1) People do get mad.
2) People get mad at other people.
3) People get mad at some of the dumbest things.
Now that those guidelines are out of the way the easiest way to make someone mad is to write an article that is completely uninformative, such as this one. Another way to make people mad is to cut your article way too short, like this.

[Dogwillhunt]

"How To Make People Mad At You, Part 2"

BASIC METHODS:

These are the easiest and most essential methods in which to use to make someone mad at you:

1) Write not one, but two different parts to an article whether it needs it or not.
2) Cover as little ground as you can when concerning the topic at hand.
3) Act like you are completely 100% uninformed about what you are writing about.
4) Uphold guitar greats such as Billy Joe from Green Day as the greatest guitarist to ever walk the face of the Earth.
5) Degrade a mainstream band no matter who they are because there is always at least one person who really likes that band. (This works really well if you use Good Charlotte or Sum 41)
6) When applicable, misspele ne and alll wurds and youse rely rely rely badd punktyuashun andd grammerr.

Well that wraps up Part Two and I hope you were well informed seeing as how this is all you get.

[GuitarPro92]

ok, this was just useless...

[crazygluedmybut]

although i dont usually listen to metal, i must say that you ARE A PIECE OF SHIT. get your facts straight and register if you're gonna post a column, you dipshit.

[kelso12345]

so when you say goth music is bad i assume your inculding the cure


















ass wipe



please crawl in a whole and die, we are all stupider for having read this bias article

the cure is good but they do usually only use a few chords...pornography is a good album of theirs

[zero27]

I know I shouldn't but I feel bad for you man, if this many people hated me, yeah, I'd cry like a little girl.

Wentworth, you have been warned, and your posts deleted for spam.

[Poonbaba]

Are you freaking kidding me? I personally detest goth music but christ, if someone likes it they are obviously doing something right. Let me ask you something "Mr. I'm Unregistered So No One Can Email Me and by the way I Am A Tool," what music have YOU made that has touched the hearts of disenchanted youth? What have you made that could possibly hold a candle to even the worst of bubblegum pop acts? Having opinions is one thing. Posting them on the internet in unintelligable dribble and hiding in anonymity is just plain cowardice. I could defecate a better article. You have ruined what makes music great for everyone with your incoherent babble. I hope you are proud.

P.S. - If I had a week's worth of time to sit in front of my computer, I would also correct you on your so-called facts about music. But I can see others on this website have brought that to attention already so I'll avoid being redundant. Just know that you are quite possibly retarded. Toodles.

[c02]

oi far out do sum research the guitarist from slipknot happens 2 be extremely good and also did alot of music/guitar courses at uni and jus cause u dont like these bands doesnt meen they jus suk cause 1 person dont like em so stfu and do sum researcg k noob?

[*miss world*]

u have a point...they have changed the face of rock music and as much as i adore jimi hendrix and the rolling stones and guns n roses n van halen so on and so forth, it doesnt mean i hate slipknot and marilyn manson etc
besides marilyn manson isnt really goth its just a stereotype thought
just cause it might not be TECHNICALLY talented doesnt mean it sucks
i dont think the cure have ruined rock n roll!!!!
rock music is like a family of heavy metal goth classic rock n roll thrash metal etc etc
DONT DISS A FAMILY MEMBER

[led zeppelin90]

DaveDaThrasha wrote:

MY F.UCKIN GOD! this guy is such a biased son of a bitch.... To say "goth" music is talentless and not define "goth" music.... slipknot is not goth... thats nu-metal... an is still far more talented than most of the bands u mentioned before... i donno if this fag noticed it but its kinda hard to play in A with out a baritone an play those fast riffs like that.... then about talentless singers... that guy that was talkin bout christina scabbia... hell even the other guy in lacuna coil is pretty talented... further more... i kno a bunch of great bands... with great guitarists.. that never played an acoustic or doubleneck on stage.... slayer for one... an last time i checked kerry king an jeff hanneman are two fukin amazing guitarists whetehr ur like the music or not... now i will say all the crap u said bout page an hendrix an the stones kickin ass... yea thats good stuff.. but that doesnt mean their the greats... personally i think metallica whups all their asses any day... but thats what i think... so go an take what u think... an keep in ur lil box along with ur biased rants, cocksuckin ideas and stupid stereotyped images of goth ppl.. an jump off a ***ing cliff....

p.s. goth didnt come from gnr...its modeled after the middle ages civilization by the same name that kicked the roman empires ass... an more of a vampiric form of dressing.... an we just happen to like black... makes u look slimmer...

-- DAVE DA THRASHA

according to my merrian webster dictionary goth is like a cathedral of notre damn like gothic literarture and or a church.....

[Poonbaba]

Another thing, why sit here and label any band as one tyre of music? For convenience when buying of course. But does that mean we must base whether or not we like a particular song or band based on that genre? That could compare to rascism and prejudice. Why not base your opinion on the song? It's easy to that with a band that has similar songs; if one doesn't like Enter Sandman, he/she/it probably won't like Anywhere I Roam. But give each and every song a chance, regardless of genre.

[Claydow]

Oi dickhead, ever heard of Vermillion pt. 2, there is one example of acoustic for slipknot, ever heard Purity? you gunna try and tell me that song means nothing? Fuckwit do your research.
What exactly do you class "goth" as? Do you have a clue?
For starters, Manson is Industrial metal, Slipknot is Hardcore rock, and Korn are Alternative metal, and manson is the only one out of the 3 talking about death and being depressed. Dont shit on bands you have no clue about.

[Claydow]

Get your ****ing facts straight dickhead. RESEARCH is a good word for you.
Slipknot gothic? Are you stupid? Have you heard vermillion pt. 2? Notice how the whole song is acoustic? Heard Purity? Gunna try and tell me that doesnt mean anything ****wit? Do you even have a clue?
For starters, Manson is Industrial Metal, Korn is Alternative metal, and Slipknot are Hardcore rock, and you "goth" music would be Black metal, far from ayn of those. The only one out of the 3 that is even close is Manson, because he uses depressing chords and sings abotu death. Gee, you sorta hit the mark. What do you class as "goth"? Do you have a ****ing clue?
Get your facts straight before you do shitting on a good band.

[gnr_fan_17]

the world saw talent such as Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Ritchie Blackmoore, Eddie Van Halen, Slash and most recently, Justin Hawkins.

Wtf?! Justin Hawkins from The Darkness? C'mon! The Darkness is okay, but Hawkins is nowhere near the ones you just mentioned. And another thing using a few chords is not so bad! Ever heard of punk music?!

[gnr_fan_17]

Goth was not stolen from the Guns by the way! Lot's of people dressed like GNR, even before they hit the scene....stupid.

[hard_as_a__rock]

*CLAPS* exactly wat is goin on. Top article. This is the stuff iv'e been trying to get across to those house music and untalentless people who think that what's new is good because everyone else likes it and it has an expensive video clips. Also another band that should be recognised is Foo Fighters, because rock n roll isnt just(but mostly) about solos, n great catchy riffs, but it is also about reason, and getting a message accrose, you cant do that by screaming into a microphone. you have to tell it to people like a story, but those people also have to listen an understand. Once again...*CLAPS* great article and great point.

Goth was not stolen from the Guns by the way! Lot's of people dressed like GNR, even before they hit the scene....stupid.[/quote]

[hard_as_a__rock]

soz that last quote thing is a typo

[f8ta1ity54]

not a fan a manson but i dont think his songs are about talented musicianship but about his messages in them...and slipnot is not goth...neither is korn...i think this dude needs to actually listen to the music he is ranting about...doesnt slipnot have some acoustic stuff? maybe there is a reason why hair metal bands dont exist anymore...and why no young ppl today want to listen to the stones..the darkness have to be the most annoying immitation of a rock hair band out there now...i hate hip hop, but would rather listen to that then the darkness...doesnt the darkness have a gothic name too? but they play pop metal crap...this dude should get out of his tight leather pants and buy more cd's.

[WILL334]

This is a bit crap realy isnt it

[t2russo]

the world saw talent such as Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Ritchie Blackmoore, Eddie Van Halen, Slash and most recently, Justin Hawkins

Justin Hawkins? are u ****in nuts? him as one of the great lead guitar players? wow... but you forgot more recent players in that list: Vai... Dime... Zakk... hell, John5 has more talent than Hawkins, and he played with Manson... before you start spewing some half-cocked bullshit about talent in the guitar world, at least know what you are dealing with ya dumbass... jesus...

[Horvat]

Korn and Marilyn Manson goth? Wtf... more like jsut nu-metal.

Respect all genres idiot. You're saying any metal/rock other than 70's rock is crappy, which in my opinion is the most close-minded thing I've ever heard.
I'm not particularly fond of death metal but I respect it because I know there are some kick ass musicians in that genre.

Don't be such a fool.

[Silent Steel]

Hey, butt****! You want to talk about tallentless singers and guitarists? EVANESCENCE BABY!! Amy Lee can sing like da shit, and Ben Moody's guitar riffs KICK ASS!! Do some research next time. What a pointless, piece of shit article. Rock on all.

[Silent Steel]

Hey, butt****! You want to talk about tallentless singers and guitarists? EVANESCENCE BABY!!! Amy Lee can sing like nobody's business, and Ben Moody's guitar riffs kick ass! Amy plays the piano frequently in theis songs, Moody (and all of their guitarists for that matter) plays the acoustic frequently, and as I said, their vocals ROCK!! Do some research next time, asswipe. Rock for Jesus all!

[lozzer]

RIGHT SHUT THE FUCK UP! THIS BLOKE IS SAYIN IT HOW IT IS. EVERYTING HE SAYS IS TRUE, BY INSULTING HIM YOUR JUST PROVING THE FACT THAT YOUR ALL SIMPLE, SINGLE MINDED DOOR NAILS! YOUR COMEBACKS ARE CRAP, ALL YOUR SAYING IS "OH YOUR AN IDIOT, GET A LIFE, EVERYTHING U SAID IS WRONG, GOTHS RULE! YEAH!" WELL DONE U SHOWED HIM.
I AGREE TOTALLY, GOTH MUSIC HAS NO POINT, PEOPLE JUST PRETEND IT DOES AND THINK IT DOES COS THEYVE NEVER LISTENED TO ANY OTHER MUSIC. ITS ALL DEATH THIS AND YOUR GONNA DIE THAT!
IF ANYONE SAYS ANOTHER BAD WORD ABOUT THIS GUYS POINT OF VIEW OR A GOOD WORD ABOUT GOTHS I WILL PERSONNALLY COME BACK AND CALL EACH AND EVERYONE OF U A TWAT!
JUST LEAVE IT! STOP!

[Ringgold]

As he said Korn, Slipknot and Marilin Manson are Goth but not really because they are suck as Goth. Goth suck as well as the bands mention above. When some bad lyrics and musically declined. Man you all should listen to the REAL music. Listen to those raps songs you are just like them.

[Ringgold]

opss I don't want misunderstanding. Never in the world I would listen to those rap songs. Okay! I listen to real music. Some rock and metal

[Ringgold]

I mean goth is such like rap

[turmoil]

THIS GUY IS AN IDIOT!!! unless he didnt know, korn don't tell u 2 hate your parents. he just expresses his anger towards his parents for not believing him when he was raped by a family friend. this guy obviously don't know his music and should **** off and die!

[lozzer]

eh?????
try to make sense when u write, i wont call u a twat, just an idiot cos u seem to be in a baffled state.

[lozzer]

eh?????

[lozzer]

eh?????
try to make sense when u write, i wont call u a twat, just an idiot cos u seem to be in a baffled state.

[turmoil]

**** U

[lozzer]

easy mate, only called u an idiot.
to be honest though, dont give a shit if he was raped by a ****in moth. it dont make his music good.
and the history of the band members life has nothing to do with music, so u cant say he dont know his music!
i think u need to learn ur music mate, not just the life history of messed up charity cases.
and nice touch by adding a smily face after saying "**** off and die"

[Kastor]

I think it's time for many people here to just stop and leave it to the bands themselves whatever genre of music it is they think they are playing. If you don't know what genre of music a certain band is playing, stop criticizing. Just listen and enjoy the music they play if you like them. Have some respect for your fellow musicians.

[me_myself_and_i]

you ****ing retard..rock music was negative, and about rebelion and defying parents since rock originated in the 50's...and the original 50's rocknroll had very simple guitarparts

[Scazzaman3000]

I can safely say that reading that article was the biggest waste of time in the histroy of wasting time. Get your facts right. Since when have Korn been Goth? You really need a life

[curtis uck]

hmm... this realy sucks. the "gothic" style of music in my opinion and please correct me if im wrong, wuold have heen an offspring of the more depressed side of the post-punk style of joy division and the cure. the image is one of the dark ages and korn and g'n'r suffer from absalute w.ankers of singers. slipknot just kick ass. they kinda left nu-metal behind on the new album. masnson can be fairly cool too and he looked/sang like that for a reason and if you don't know what that reason is i suggest you listen to him some more!

[thecameronator]

im not goth and i dont think marylinmanson and othere gothic music is untalented...wat a fukin idiot if he doesnt like em doesnt mean there no talented

[thecameronator]

Kastor:
I think it's time for many people here to just stop and leave it to the bands themselves whatever genre of music it is they think they are playing. If you don't know what genre of music a certain band is playing, stop criticizing. Just listen and enjoy the music they play if you like them. Have some respect for your fellow musicians.

i agree with that guy

[b.daymassacre]

Well this is a pointless and idiotic post. First of all Maylin manson is not goth and neither is korn. They are shock and rap/rock. You have no idea what Gothic music is. Second, Gothic music is not a branch of rock'n'roll, it is a child of classical music and chant. Surprised arent u? Real goth music have never advised through music to disobbey parents or any other elder figure. Rock'n'roll was the label which started that trend. Third, Gothic music started manifested in the late 1960's, not with your buddy marylin manson in the 90's. Stop getting your labels mixed up, and get your facts straight b4 you post again. It's really embarassing. Btw: If you stop and listen you'll hear a lot gothic music being played on movie scores and television documentries. When was the last time a rock artist has written an entire music score for a movie? not once. Talent isnt the issue here, It's a men with no one to blame for the decline in Rock'n'Roll. I like guitar solos too, being a shredder that is. But you must understand that by commencing that trite formula, we are only limiting ourselves. I suggest these bands, real goth music: The Changelings, The birthday massacre, Johnny hollow, Within temptation, Nightwish, L'ame Immortelle, Theatre of tragedy, somnambul, leaves eyes, and gardens of gehenna. hf

[b.daymassacre]

Well another pointless and idiotic post. First, marylin Manson and korn are not Goth, they are shock and rap/rock. Second, Gothic is not a branch of Rock'n'roll, it is a child of classical music and chant, you got labels mixed up. Third, gothic music manifested in the late 1960's, a parallel to punk. Your parable of ~Goth~ is completely incorrect, clearly you have been misinformed. Gothic fashion is not based on GNR, it is influenced by the Victorian era in England. Not once have I heard a real gothic band through music suggest rebellion towards any elder figure. That my ignorant friend was a trend started by Rock'n'roll. Get your facts straight and don?t be so gullible to what you your fractured mind presents to you. I like guitar solos too, but you must understand that if we commence that trite formula we are only limiting ourselves. Like what some of these other ppl have said, "you are a tool created out of the hate for mtv". Here are some great Gothic bands for you to experience: The Birthday Massacre, Within Temptation, Nightwish, Johnny Hollow, Theatre of Tragedy, Cradle of filth, L'ame Immortelle, the changelings, engelsstaub, and somnambul.

[b.daymassacre]

Well another pointless and idiotic post. First, marylin Manson and korn are not Goth, they are shock and rap/rock. Second, Gothic is not a branch of Rock'n'roll, it is a child of classical music and chant, you got labels mixed up. Third, gothic music manifested in the late 1960's, a parallel to punk. Your parable of ~Goth~ is completely incorrect, clearly you have been misinformed. Gothic fashion is not based on GNR, it is influenced by the Victorian era in England. Not once have I heard a real gothic band through music suggest rebellion towards any elder figure. That my ignorant friend was a trend started by Rock'n'roll. Get your facts straight and don?t be so gullible to what you your fractured mind presents to you. I like guitar solos too, but you must understand that if we commence that trite formula we are only limiting ourselves. Like what some of these other ppl have said, "you are a tool created out of the hate for mtv". Here are some great Gothic bands for you to experience: The Birthday Massacre, Within Temptation, Nightwish, Johnny Hollow, Theatre of Tragedy, Cradle of filth, L'ame Immortelle, the changelings, engelsstaub, and somnambul.

[b.daymassacre]

Well another pointless and idiotic post. First, marylin Manson and korn are not Goth, they are shock and rap/rock. Second, Gothic is not a branch of Rock'n'roll, it is a child of classical music and chant, you got labels mixed up. Third, gothic music manifested in the late 1960's, a parallel to punk. Your parable of ~Goth~ is completely incorrect, clearly you have been misinformed. Gothic fashion is not based on GNR, it is influenced by the Victorian era in England. Not once have I heard a real gothic band through music suggest rebellion towards any elder figure. That my ignorant friend was a trend started by Rock'n'roll. Get your facts straight and don?t be so gullible to what you your fractured mind presents to you. I like guitar solos too, but you must understand that if we commence that trite formula we are only limiting ourselves. Like what some of these other ppl have said, "you are a tool created out of the hate for mtv". Here are some great Gothic bands for you to experience: The Birthday Massacre, Within Temptation, Nightwish, Johnny Hollow, Theatre of Tragedy, Cradle of filth, L'ame Immortelle, the changelings, engelsstaub, and somnambul.

[zeta5]

interesting post. one thing, the Rolling Stones are one of those bands that kinda invented rock 'n' roll, so you shouldn't say that they helped destroy it. I would be inclined to agree with you on that rock music today tends to have less glorious solos, but that is the way they want it. Music is music, no matter what the genre or style. Music comes from the soul and the musicians are expressing what their soul tells them.

[lozzer]

solos are crap when theyre glorious 15 minute tributes to the devil. it sounds shit and boring cos its repetitive and they all sound the same.
bands like franz ferdinand, the libertines etc. jave the right idea. the clash did too. just has to be cool with a good little riff that stands out and makes u want to play it even more. simple.

[skunkjob]

ummmm, got news for people, i'm a goth, we got started in the 70s matey.

bauhaus, joy division, the smiths, the cure, sisters of mercy, the damned, siouxsie and the banshees, southern death cult, fields of the nephilim are not 'untalented' and i'm fairly sure they've managed to keep their screaming to a minimum, it's called 'goth rock' for a reason.

now this marilyn manson stuff and whoever these other guys you speak of, has absolutely nothing to do with me or with goth.

way to go buddy, put your opinion on the net, that'll really get you far.

it's douches like you that have invented bullshit stereotypes and styles that breed this goth metal cross over shit that i get force fed by your cherished wank mags like 'hammer' or whatever other fag crap you subscribe to. your attempt at life has failed.

ziggy ****ing stardust is forever you whiney bitch, the past 30 yrs are proof, it got here before you so maybe you should just shut up now before you embarass yourself.

-skunkjob

[skunkjob]

ummmm, got news for people, i'm a goth, we got started in the 70s matey.

bauhaus, joy division, the smiths, the cure, sisters of mercy, the damned, siouxsie and the banshees, southern death cult, fields of the nephilim are not 'untalented' and i'm fairly sure they've managed to keep their screaming to a minimum, it's called 'goth rock' for a reason.

now this marilyn manson stuff and whoever these other guys you speak of, has absolutely nothing to do with me or with goth.

way to go buddy, put your opinion on the net, that'll really get you far.

it's douches like you that have invented bullshit stereotypes and styles that breed this goth metal cross over shit that i get force fed by your cherished wank mags like 'hammer' or whatever other fag crap you subscribe to. your attempt at life has failed.

ziggy ****ing stardust is forever you whiney bitch, the past 30 yrs are proof, it got here before you so maybe you should just shut up now before you embarass yourself.

-skunkjob

[zeppelin450]

"Goth" music had potential, the 70's or 80's at least. Now it's just a culture that has overshadowed the music upon which it was based. Violent strumming on nameless "chords" is not emotionally driven music, and, conversely, music cannot be derived from pure rage and anger at life. Get back to some real tunes and then we'll talk goth music; for now it's just shit.

[Mortigi Tempo]

wow did that suck

[Mortigi Tempo]

skunkjob wrote:

ummmm, got news for people, i'm a goth, we got started in the 70s matey.

bauhaus, joy division, the smiths, the cure, sisters of mercy, the damned, siouxsie and the banshees, southern death cult, fields of the nephilim are not 'untalented' and i'm fairly sure they've managed to keep their screaming to a minimum, it's called 'goth rock' for a reason.

now this marilyn manson stuff and whoever these other guys you speak of, has absolutely nothing to do with me or with goth.

way to go buddy, put your opinion on the net, that'll really get you far.

it's douches like you that have invented bullshit stereotypes and styles that breed this goth metal cross over shit that i get force fed by your cherished wank mags like 'hammer' or whatever other fag crap you subscribe to. your attempt at life has failed.

ziggy ****ing stardust is forever you whiney bitch, the past 30 yrs are proof, it got here before you so maybe you should just shut up now before you embarass yourself.

-skunkjob

surely joy division are post punk not goth and smiths are not goth either

[Life is peachy]

your a ****ing retard for posting this bullshit, sorry that the "goth" music isnt to your liking, get your head out of your ass! its ****ing 2006 and if the music these days arent to your liking then die! if your gonna complain about it. lets step away from guitar here, i wanna hear guns n' roses do a double bass on drums for a full 4 min much like slipknot, i wanna see the rolling stones slap bass like fieldy from korn. come on you douche why do all you 60's and 70's junkies try and destroy the new music out, ****ing they were popular in there day there not as much now, and now its time for the new shit to come it. your a homo, you act like these bands didnt have some inspiration from the older bands, they have just as much talent as the older bands just mastered ina different way. oh and ******* smoke on the water is like 3 or 4 power chords through the whole song douche

[the.iron.maiden]

goth looks stolen from guns n' roses.... do goths wear feathered pink boas, headbands and smoke while wearing an old and mastering a guitar solo? and i agree on the whole 'better to write about how rap sucks' because chances of r. kelly reading this are slim. its just another way of expressing yourself. a way that i dont appreciate, if i remember it is something like "im gonna slap my bit** up.' wonderful.
and i had no idea, as told to me by 'peachy' above me, that there was a guy in korn named fieldy. tell me you didnt sound stupid. shows how much i know about korn. let me think... fieldy.... hmmm... nope, still stupid. by the way, is there a korny in there?

p.s.:homo jokes not appreciated by my 'homo' friends. nothing to say about goth. but is there a reason ive never heard of the birthday massacre or whatever the hell it is? think about it.

'Peachy', up there spelled ***** and **** wrong.

[hellblazer_666]

This is the greatest amount of Bull shi* and biased oppinions that aren't supported by any facts whatsoever. Just because you have a grudge against a certain genre of music doesn't mean it is untalented. i.e. Marilyn Manson is one of the great masters of the concept album, just listen to antichrist superstar or Holy Wood, bested of course by Pink Floyds the Wall but thats not really the point. Also slipknot isn't even goth it is nu-metal, dumb @@s learn your genres before you rant about them. Closed minded idiots like yourself deserve to die.

[TobiasFn]

I like your point , ( i hate goth music too )

But your facts and arguments are really bad ? like it symbolize a great band that they are playing a double neck ?

[rattlehead999]

goth stolen from guns n roses? guns and roses werent the first band to wear black leather, it was more like judas priest in the 70s. goth is a look thats centuries old. plus out of the bands you mentioned, korn and slipknot arent goth. slipknot and korn are more nu metal, and korn wear like track uniform and not all black. this has to be one of the stupidest articles ive ever read. im not a fan of people who dress goth and i prefer old rockn roll and old metal like motorhead, megadeth, anthrax, etc, but that doesnt mean that the bands you are mentioning are untalented. korn has an amazing bassist and a talented guitarist who do things with their instruments that have never been done before. they have lots of talent, you just dont happen to like them. ok that doesnt mean their music sucks. you just have no f***ing respect for other people and their tastes in music and you dont know wat your talking about. go suck a dick

[angus69]

i hate goth,i totally with u on saying that evreybody should listen to led zeppelin and deep purple but.. come on,you should learn a little more about music

[Stiffy Maximus]

Korn is one of the biggest bands out there and you're saying they have ruined rock and roll. Dude your a joke.

[Mudvayne_4_Life]

Your the biggest idiot ive ever seen on here before. First of all, this is just your opinion, OK. Just because your into "catchy" music, instead of more unique, darker music, doesn't mean you have to go bitch about it. And besides, Marilyn Manson has used acoustic guitars before. Just listen to the song "Coma White." (Even though it usees that riff that has been used so many damn times.) Now, I prefer "progressive" music, such as Opeth. And I hate the band Blink-182. But that doesn't mean that I'm gonna go write this big ass thing talking aobut "why don't people listen to more progressive music like Opeth instead of just simple "catchy" music like Blink-182 wea wea wea blah blah blah bitch bitch bitch." You just gotta learn to open your little ****ing mind to more styles of music besides your little "traditional rock 'n roll" world. I listen to classic stuff like Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, and so on, nu-metal stuff like Linkin Park (I'm not crazy about em, but I do like them) Slipknot, and so on, "traditional metal" such as Opeth, Children of Bodom, and so on, hardcore/metalcore bands like Demon Hunter, and pretty much al styles of metal. You nee dto keep an open mind to all music. NOW GO CRAWL IN A DITCH AND DIE!

[DonnyM]

Actually, not all heavy metal music with no solo is goth.

[Jonny02]

what a garbled mess of inaccurate bullshit

[punksucks23]

yeah man, there isn't one good band out there today, they all play power chords and sound the same

[Dagz13]

this is a shit rant. You don't even know your musical history. Goth rose from the morbid sounds and visuals of bands like Sabbath, not ****in GnR!!

[true_bacon22]

You forgot the fact the most bands such as lamb of god otep etc have guys who inhale and try to talk at the same time and call that singing when its a bull shit excuse for not being able to sing.

[Inspire]

u are full of shit, ur just some closeminded dude hu thinks that all rock should have a solo and lots of chords, and saying that so called "gothic" music, although actually classified as metal has only 3 or 4 chords is completely wrong. this article has no real "information" u just talk about stereotypical "everybody knows that" bullshit. go back, listen to some of this music that u hate so much, research it, then come back with a well informed and formulated opinion. AND while you're at it, look for the bands that everyone hasn't herd of, the ones that give the genre that name. korn, slipknot and marilyn manson. look for anorexia nervosa, cradle of filth, himsa, and chimaira. listen to wat is said, and even then sometimes its better to just listen to the sound, the music, and quite often in this genre, the attitude and the emotion. stop bashing genres u dont understand, i actually listen to every genre, including the blues and classical rock that u tend to idolize. im not saying everyone has to like every genre, but u should be open minded and give the others a chance.

[rockergurl09]

idiot. Do your homework before you run your mouth like that. I hate goth music, as well as numetal too, but you are just, well, being an angry noob. Also, there's a difference between metal and goth music. Almost totally different except for the darkness factor. I most definitely agree about their lack of talent, but stealing their goth look from guns and roses?? no. They didn't steal anything, but adopted the looks of various rock stars, not just G'n'R. You are merely bashing a genre and idolizing another when you don't truly understand either. in other words,

SHUT UP!!

[rockergurl09]

also, Justin Hawkins isn't exactly in the guitar god realm like the other guitarists you listed. Not there yet.

[rockergurl09]

and what's so great about playing a double neck. Marilyn Manson can play one for all I care. I wont make him better.

[spaminator101]

while i hate goth music and agree with everything you said this was totally unapropriate

[kevweldon]

Justin Hawkings is a talentless cockrash

[RachieBat]

This guy needs to listen to Bauhaus. A lot.

And why does how fast you play your instrument have any correlation between how talented you are? I'd rather have a catchy tune, any day.

It realls ticks me off when goth gets confused with metal. Don't even get me started of 'goth metal'. ¬_¬

[Jdahmer]

Perhaps it would be most civil to drop the Ad Hominem arguements; It does not conclusively follow from the poor quality of this article that its unregestered poster is a "faggot," or a "smelly ****". Its author is by no means excercising authority, just expressing an opinion. Expression of opinions and emotions is in the very nature of the music that we listen to, regardless of which of the million and a half loosely defined genres it belongs. Should this be excluded from posts and columns about it? I do not agree with the article, nor do I agree that its poster is a vagina of any sort.

[jrthegreat91]

wow you could have made this argument work if you didnt say bands like marlyn and slipknot where bad. you could have picked shitty goth music instead you picked bands alot of people worship

[miguelito2729]

OMG the guy who wrote this sh*tty article is one elephant-sized dumb bast*rd!!! Altough it feels real good to know that a lot of people can still draw the line between sh*tty rants like this one and good articles.

[Raistincarnate]

All right-just a heads up, this is comming from a thrash/speed metalhead, here.

I hope this guy realises that goths usually don't listen to music that considers itself "goth". I'd consider Theatre of Tragedy, Draconian, Voltaire, Unter Null, and London After Midnight real goth bands. But also, like metal and rock, goth music has various subgenres that are respective and defined. You've got your beauty and the beast styled bands that typically sing in very poetic words about love, you've got bands whose lyrics are usually about dark erotica or other such human impulses, then the "cybergoth" scene which revolves around aggro industrial/techno bands. And then there's those doomy hard rock bands like Anathema which are, in my opinion, loosely related, but still considered "goth".

At the end of the day, goth music is another overlabeled genre that's extremely vast. But most of it does require serious talent. A few goth or goth related bands that I do like usually have a lot of proficiency in eastern stylings of music theory. Then a lot of goth music is vocally driven as well, with some good singers around-especially in the female vocals department. The "cybergoth" scene usually involves some really talented and creative electronica artists. You can argue electronica isn't music per se, but you still need to be creative and have a good sense of melody and rhythm for it.


...I can't believe I just defended goth music.

But seriously, don't associate goth/mallcore kids with goth music-they're not always one in the same. Always remember, classifications are for refference. Labels are for limitations.

And I'm personally insulted as a metal fan that you didn't mention Ozzy, Ronnie James Dio, or Alice Cooper as influences on the dark genres.

Just my three cents.

[Raistincarnate]

My apologies to the moderators for making a double comment, but I had to add more, and I think it's a good one-

It seems in your argument, you jump right from the mid 70's right to the early 90's. Where's the evolution? Perhaps if you knew more about the history of hard rock and metal, you'd be able to explain it. Dark themes and styles used by bands like Celtic Frost, Ozzy Osborne, and earlier, Black Sabbath, just the metal scene as a whole mixed with shock rock and theatrical influences to make modern goth music-at least that's how I see it.

And catchy riffs and fast solos? You obviously just haven't looked beyond the radio, dude. There's plenty of great music out now, you just have to look. Hell, if you want awesome solos, just look at solo instrumental guitarists Joe Satriani and Steve Vai. If you want something a little heavier and catchier, try some metal, starting with-go figure-Metallica, they're pretty digestable, especially Master of Puppets, and their affectionately known Black Album. Find your own interests through there. Rock's influence lives on in scene based branches. Open your eyes, open your ears, and open your mind.

The bands that killed rock weren't the goth bands, metal bands, rap music, or any other genre. Rock evolved into something less technical with bands such as Pearl Jam and Nirvana. Though they weren't bad themselves, the bands that borrowed their style I think delivered a knockout blow to rock. Though stumbling, I will agree that rock's getting back on its feet again.

All right. My tirade is over. I hope this doesn't get deleted.

[metal Lover]

Anyone who is involved in music rocks. This guy's ignorant

[thegreensquall]

most rock guitarists blow... listen to tommy emmanuel. what rock guitarists can play like that?

[Punk Rocker]

It woulda been ok, if you werent ignorant, biased, and didnt get your information from a chipmunk.

[guitar?]

Why has this not been deleated yet. manson and korn are not even goth!

[Fishhooker]

Goths suck, this article sucks.

[Half Monkey]

music was created to be listened to, not critizised, if you dont like it dont listen

[Punkrocker506]

Stop writing articles. I appreciate your opinion, but the thing is: 1. I agree with guitar? Manson and Korn aren't gothic. Bands like Murder Dolls, Wednesday 13, and such are gothic...
2. Most rock music was based around the guitar, we're not talking avbout rockmusic, we're talking about "Gothic".
3. You're a n00b.

[SystemFailure]

Man you could tell this article was a crock of shit by just reading the closed minded title.
Return rock and roll? RETURN MY BALLS TO UR LIPS ASSJOCKEY!!
Man this guy has whiled me up.
Right man where do i start.
You started complaining about how artists such as Marilyn Manson has never done an acoustic performance.....WRONG!!! He has done a rather amazing live gig. A one off if i remember correctly.
Then; why does the solo MAKE the song?
Some solo's are truly SHIT. and they FUCK a good song.
(in my oppinion) and im not goona say any bands who i think have made songs like that coz it'll just make things worse.
But seriously, if yuor goona bitch about bands, then do it in front of their thousands of fans.
See if you've got the balls to do it like a faggot then.

Luke

[HughF]

Before punk, goth, metal, and other genres that made great music without 70 ****ing chords per song and a 5min long solo, the only thing that made a band was their guitarist. I'm a guitarist myself, and I'm here to tell you, that's bullshit. I'm no fan of manson myself, but being able to make an awesome song with only a few chords take more talent than filling the song with a crappy solo.

[The-Kicks]

The Darkness... pfft. The darkness dont have their own style, they just copy the style of the past. Im not a fan of Nu-metal etc and they are talented musicians and they have, or had i should say now a far more original style than the darkness had

[hemi-san]

i aggree goth sucks. they all say they are trying to be different and yet they all look the same. many of them look like transvestites, case in point marilyn manson, he does have a girls name

[pagan_bloodlust]

just to clarify this is actually about Nu-metal because the term "goth" is actually a germanic tribe which after being conquered by the romans "they did not whoop ass as sum ppl have wrote" split into several tribes including the visi-goths and the gauls(these guys kicked the romans asses) this term also refers to a medieval style of architecture which is famouse for its dark angular appearence and grotesque statues of "gargoyles" so if you have the intelligence to actually learn about our history you would see that these supposed "goths' are really wannabes without any clue.

P.S justin hawkins is the biggest faggot ever and i find him and jack white to be the two most overated guitarists in history the really can go play in a nu-metal band for all i care.

[pagan_bloodlust]

as a side note i would have to say everyones missconception about "gothic" styles and fashions nowdays spawns from black metal and several people have mentioned cradle of filth as "goth", technically they are Symphonic black metal but they have a large portion of death metal implanted into their sound, also those who have said that korn guitarists invented new things actually it was steve vai who started the whole 7 string guitar and that guy raving about slipknot double kicks try out morbid angels drummer he does what all 3 slipknot percussionists do by himself

[HopePoisoned]

Does anyone know what Goth is? The definition has just been altered so much.

[hemi-san]

yeah i aggree goth has been changed up but the average person thinks of goth by how it is defined in todays world.

[Anarion614]

DaveDaThrasha wrote:

MY F.UCKIN GOD! this guy is such a biased son of a bitch.... To say "goth" music is talentless and not define "goth" music.... slipknot is not goth... thats nu-metal... an is still far more talented than most of the bands u mentioned before... i donno if this fag noticed it but its kinda hard to play in A with out a baritone an play those fast riffs like that.... then about talentless singers... that guy that was talkin bout christina scabbia... hell even the other guy in lacuna coil is pretty talented... further more... i kno a bunch of great bands... with great guitarists.. that never played an acoustic or doubleneck on stage.... slayer for one... an last time i checked kerry king an jeff hanneman are two fukin amazing guitarists whetehr ur like the music or not... now i will say all the crap u said bout page an hendrix an the stones kickin ass... yea thats good stuff.. but that doesnt mean their the greats... personally i think metallica whups all their asses any day... but thats what i think... so go an take what u think... an keep in ur lil box along with ur biased rants, cocksuckin ideas and stupid stereotyped images of goth ppl.. an jump off a ***ing cliff....

p.s. goth didnt come from gnr...its modeled after the middle ages civilization by the same name that kicked the roman empires ass... an more of a vampiric form of dressing.... an we just happen to like black... makes u look slimmer...

-- DAVE DA THRASHA

nice rant, you owned him, but cool off with the '...'' all over

[thecameronator]

slipknot is not goth... thats nu-metal

bitch face no its not they got a bit nu-metal-ish in there earlier stuff and practically all nu-metal has rap elements, slipknot have like 2 songs that have a rappy feel to it...there stuff now isnt nu-metal sounding at all(they never were anyway) and u know y they got rid off the dickhead ross robinson as there producer and got rick rubin (fine choice i might add)...ross robinson banned all solos and shit because he thought it was a bad idea so what else are they gonna go and replace the solos with...silence?...no...sound effects and ill just leave it at that....

crappy colum by the way

[guitarwizard_00]

I must agree that goth music is rather untalented but your just asking for trouble posting an article like this...you're an idiot

[gtr-boy]

GOTH IS A FUCKING RELIGION U WURSHIP THE DEVIL
sounds untrue but it is my friends

[|voiceout|]

=),it is not desirable to rate music ONLY by skills.What matters most is the ability to CREATE music,and the people love it.Well,u may say talent or skills,but DO TAKE NOTE->how about creativity..

[SlipknotBig]

Hey pig****er. You don't know what the **** you're talking about in the first place and second of all korn and slipknot are two of the greatest bands i've ever seen. You can't rate someone on what they play. I also play acoustic does that make me a legend, *******, no it does'nt. Korn is a Hard Rock band not ****ing Goth, Slipknot is a Metal band, yes Metal as in Heavy, heavy ****ing cool you shit. And another thing I think you should go back to school and learn how to spell SINSE YOU can't spell SINCE right. Be creative sheepshagger. And did you even think about adding Kirk Hammett to your list of greats that man is one of the GREATEST guitar players i have ever seen or maybe Metallica is to Goth for you. Peace out Shit Hole.

[hadesdaman]

If your measure of 'talent' is solos etc and variation, then why aren't you ranting about how prog rock and prog metal are the best genres?

[neffhead]

what a tosspot. The Beatles solos and riffs were hardly complicated, are you calling them untalented?

[original=punk]

I read the first paragraph and immediately shook my head.

Jimi Hendrix knew about 4 chords, just hifted their positions on the nec. dum-dum, im not even bothering reading cause are obviously a retard.

[pie_man_25]

SlipknotBig wrote:

Hey pig****er. You don't know what the **** you're talking about in the first place and second of all korn and slipknot are two of the greatest bands i've ever seen. You can't rate someone on what they play. I also play acoustic does that make me a legend, *****, no it does'nt. Korn is a Hard Rock band not ****ing Goth, Slipknot is a Metal band, yes Metal as in Heavy, heavy ****ing cool you shit. And another thing I think you should go back to school and learn how to spell SINSE YOU can't spell SINCE right. Be creative sheepshagger. And did you even think about adding Kirk Hammett to your list of greats that man is one of the GREATEST guitar players i have ever seen or maybe Metallica is to Goth for you. Peace out Shit Hole.

firstly, Korn DOESN'T play hard rock, they play NU metal, so does slipknot, and secondly, Nu metal is not metal, nor is it at all music, it's just a bunch of suicidal pussies that don't want to seem emo.

[ub3r_bassist666]

Ok first off, Slipknot & KoRn are NOT, reapeat NOT, gothic in any way what so ever, secondly gothic is my favourite type of music, & i agree it doesnt gernally have solo's, but that shouldnt matter its still good music, thirdly why are you complaining about bands who you think dont have talent just because they ply a certain type of music, have you ever heard marilyn mansons old guitarist john 5's solo stuff, it is nothing but crazy solos, when you should be complaining about musicians who dont actually have any kind of musical talent what so ever, they just know how to right offensive nursery rhymes, LOOKING AT YOU 'RAP', these people play almost no part in the actual music of their songs, then you've got RnB where the artists dont even write their own lyrics!!
next time you want to rant about un-talented musicians, do some better research.

[Rundle]

"They even use double neck guitars, which probably symbolises a good band sinse all the greats have used them."

lol

[UGchicken]

I think I lost IQ points reading this.

You are stupid. Just because you don't like a certain kind of music doesn't mean you should go rambling on about how you don't like it.

[LP_RuLeZZZ]

i hope the guy who wrote this gets hit by a car and dies

[goth072]

First of all, none of the mentioned bands plays anything close to goth. Second, most of the soloists in rock'n'roll are the cause of it's diminishing impact, because they just repeat the same licks and sequences, with litle or no melody, just showing good executing speed but without any composing talent, unlike the few good ones, in which some of the above mentioned can be included.
Goth (the real one, not the bands mentioned above), relies on the harmonic composition of the music to define it's sound, not in a 100 notes per second shallow solo, too common in cheap rock. Harmony is also a part of any good music, using the same harmony with different solos is not any good. Too many rock bands fall for that mistake.
Goth is about dark ambiences, medieval exuberance, misticism, and lots of nature. The examples you give are just american teenage violence and missplacement, dressed in black leather, out of some S&M cataloge.
And, last but not least. Goth was born in the late 70's, early 80's, in England, and not from G'n'R visual, where I clearly remember, reigned the white pansy shorts of Axel Rose, and his gayish moves with sticky gluteus maximus.

[brainhii]

wow, this world has some extremely ignorant people. just simply the fact that u used korn, marylin manson, and slipknot as examples of goth rock shows how little truely you know about what you're trying to bash. Let's put it this way: if u're gonna complain about something, make sure you know a fact or two about what it is that you're trying to complain about. as for me, i'm not much of a korn, slipknot, or marylin manson fan as well, but i still respect them, and i recogize the talent that they have.

o and if you want to use so-called "goth's" (eg korn, slipknot and marylin manson) lack of technical complexity against them, let me tell you that playing really fast solos brings you no where at all. maybe you've heard of thelonius monk, the legendary jazz pianist, who, in his carnegy hall performance, did nothing but throw a flower pot in his piano and leave. yet it was a mind blowing performance for the audience. just one example of how a lack of fast solos doesn't necessarily mean musical greatness. some more examples of this are the superb music of artists like nirvana, sublime, coldplay, radiohead, and many other humble musicians.

lastly i'd like to meet the dips**t who wrote this article. i bet u're some 9 year old little brat who knows nothing outside of the confines of his home. so don't try to post anything else on u-g, cuz it's simply not made for ppl like u.

[swinghead]

i don't have a clear idea if "goth", but if i understood something it sucks.the article sucks too but i agree with you on some points

[swinghead]

goth072 wrote:

First of all, none of the mentioned bands plays anything close to goth. Second, most of the soloists in rock'n'roll are the cause of it's diminishing impact, because they just repeat the same licks and sequences, with litle or no melody, just showing good executing speed but without any composing talent, unlike the few good ones, in which some of the above mentioned can be included.

what u mention is not rock n roll

[doughboy924]

alright im not exactly sure what is and what's not exactly Goth however in my opinion i think that Korn's way of playing is so innovative that it makes up for the fact that maybe its not the hardest or the most complex song to play.... but yet again thats just my opinion, o and that applies for some of the other bands u mentioned

[doughboy924]

when i said u mentioned i meant the author not anyone else sry

[Tummaenkeli]

Close-minded bullshit. Fuck you, and if you don't like it, **** you again.

[musguire27]

Nu-rock or whatever you guys refer to has no soul and most of what I've heard of it is nothing but what appears to be teenage angst. I have no problem with nu-rock, old rock, goth, or whatever you listen to.....it's your choice. All I'm saying is that the bands that are in the public eye on MTV and all the local new rock stations seem to have the same sound as the next band. The lyrics are all the same and none of it refers to having a good time or anything political or that has to do with todays world except for how "They don't fit in". Now i'm not saying anything about what you may listen to at home....I'm just stating my opinion upon what I hear on the radio everyday. When I'm 50 years old and at the bar I will not see any of these bands today on the jukebox because they are disposable music. Record companys give out contracts based upon appearence and how they can label and market the band which is the downfall of AMERICAN music. HIP HOP KILLED ROCK!!!!! Down with Limp Bizkit!!!!

[musguire27]

By the way if you don't like my opinion..... eat a turde because I could care less!!

[Slaytanic6606]

Manson has played acoustic before...
Nobodies and Coma white had acoustic versions.
Fall of Adam and In the Shadow of the Valley of Death are acoustic songs.

And yes, Manson's songs usually don't take much talent to play, but look up his ex guitarist, John 5 and look at his solos.


Besides, this article is soaked in bias.

And how the **** did manson start the rebellion thing?
Wasn't that punk?

And manson's lyrics, if you look at them more deeply, then you'd realize they're intelligent.
They've helped me through tough parts of my life.

You sir, fail. Good day to you.

[Rodie]

"The introduction of Gothic music meant that anyone could make a song with only the help of 3 or 4 chords."

The introduction of the ability to post columns unregistered meant that anyone could pretend to know something about music using only 3 or 4 brain cells.

[Macabre_Turtle]

Reasons why you fail.

1. Marilyn Manson is industrial and Korn and Slipknot are Nu-Metal. Even those are debatable but they're certainly not goth.

2. You've clearly never read Marilyn Manson's lyrics, or if you have you completely misunderstood them.

3. Marilyn Manson has played acoustic on numerous occasions. Korn and Slipknot have too.

4. All three of those bands have played solos, and are pretty much based around riffs.

5. Smoke On The Water is a terrible song to use when whining about simple music.

[kumamilesbear]

"all the greats have used them" my ass. when the hell did hendrix ever use a friggin doubleneck? as far as i know, fender doesnt make doublenecks, and the only non-fender i remember hendrix ever using was a gibson flying v, and i dont think gibson makes doubleneck flying v's either.
and macabre turtle, industrial is goth. but you are right about marylin and korn having played acousticly. but i dont listen to slipknot, so i dont know about them.

[PurpleFlavoured]

The bands you mentioned aren't Goth.

Goth came from punk around the 1980's.

Example of goth bands are Sisters of Mercy, The Bauhaus, Fields of Nephilim, Christian Death etc


Next time you rant about "talentless" musicians and blame a whole genre for the decline of music, I would heavily suggest knowing what you're talking about first.

[BennyStruggle]

Thankfully things are slowly changing. More and more kids are starting to pick up guitars and learn songs like "Smoke On The Water" and "Sweet Child O Mine", or even "Stairway To Heaven".


And this is a good thing?

[BennyStruggle]

oh yeah I wanted to add that Double necks not only look gay, they are most often for conceited musicians trying to showoff.

[Jim de Mighty]

lol funny the knob who wrote the article thinks smoke on the water and sweet child of mine are good songs unfrickinbelievable stupid white trash

[FaceInTheSand]

Wikipedia basically makes ignorance a crime on the level of murder - which means this guy just committed genocide.

Now, the essay:
Goth started, as has been previously mentioned, in the UK post-punk scene, with darker guitar driven pop-rock like Siousxie Sioux & The Banshees, The Cult, The Cure etc. but it does expand from there into different genres. The fashion here is largely unclear, but definately dark and tight with back-combed hair and black eyeliner; although Robert Smith (The Cure) has worn baggy ice-hockey shirts for years.

EBM/Darkwave music is derived from the same root, and shows many of the same elements - dark, emotional lyrics and a brooding atmosphere to the music. But, it also introduces elements from the German school of Techno such as Kraftwerk, and mixes it with the Synthpop of the late 1980's like Tears For Fears. Nowadays, EBM & Darkwave are often characterised as "goth", and includes bands such as Chiasm, Assemblage23 and Apoptygma Bezerk. Fashion: tends towards punk elements, like bondage trousers, but made more futuristic by adding wires, pipes and fluorescent patches etc. and the footwear tends to be massive "New Rock" boots. Hair tends to be either backcombed or long braids/dreadlocks/extensions, in vibrant colours.


There is also the folk/pagan goth that developed from a merging of English traditional/folk with Romantic-era elements from Classical music and the guitars of the Sisters of Mercy. Inkubus Sukkubus are probably the best example of this, with very Pagan lyrics and violins. Fashion tends towards elegant black/red/purple/green lace dresses, or white "poet" shirts for men.

The last type of Goth is the metal side of it, taking elements of thrash and melodic black metal and making it more haunting. Type O Negative, My Dying Bride and - to a lesser extent - Opeth are great bands to listen to for this type. Fashion tends to be just black and tight fitting and combat or riding boots, with very long hair.

Seriously, none of the bands you mentioned are goth. Not a single one. KoRn (nu-metal tinged with bagpipes and electronica) is VERY unlike Slipknot and Manson, who are best characterised shock rock, with elements of black metal and industrial respectively.

[TedESP]

You suck... at life.

[brush200400]

i dont like goth music, but youre saying its untalented because they dont use acoustic guitars? dont tell me shredding metal guitarists arent talented, who dont need acoustic guitars during a heavy song. you are just a non outgoing classic rock listener who cant adjust to the newer styles, which I myself am not crazy for, but still listen to the music i like.

[Emopunk824]

Dude u r so closed minded(juz so u know i hate marylin Manson too).....Ozzy Osbourne is considered "Goth" are u saying he isnt awesome, wat about all the metal guitarists in bands like DragonForce or All That Remains and a million other bands, they have solos, music changes whether its rock or metal or rock n roll its still al rock and has different branches and people use different inspiration for their own musical creation. Jimmy Page is awesome but that doesnt mean all bands should be like Zed Zepplen.

[FloubasFlemanca]

a few crappy wannabees with no musical talent doesnt make the whole genre bad. you are very ignorant. how about bands like Black Sabbath? or All that Remains. there is a lot of good gothic bands with their own styles.

[Rexbeans]

Not sure if dark goth imagery didn't start with bands like black sabbath, alice cooper..& later other elements like one of david bowies many fazes were he spewed yet another genre of music simply on his quest for constant change.. This was later crystalized into what a lot of us think of as goth by bands such as the cure & the cult, also many others, possibly too numerous to mention..
When i was younger i used to think a lot like this, almost like a musical Nazi in which only my cause was the most just...the most righteous.!
Now i've grown up a bit i think a lot of the things i dismissed when i was going through this period were actually really good i just had to listen to a wider range of music & be more open to new sounds wich in the end can only make you a better musician..
I'm still not a big fan of Korn or Maralyn manson personally but one day someone may take those influences & create something wonderful from them while the small minded look on & say "dang why didn't i think of that"..
I like Led Zep, AC/DC, Hendrix, Queen & so on as much as the next guy, but i think my main point is that you need to listen to a more varied range of music dude & stop ranting.. Good luck!

[DroptheBomb]

hey jakazz, korn and manson arnt goth music. just cuz whiny mall goths lsiitn to them doesnt make em gothic, and yes korn and manson have done acousitcs like for instance korn did a mtv unplugged, and manson has had plenty of acoustic songs or acousitc arrangments for songs like[man that u fear acoustic, last day on earth acosutic, in the shadow of the valley of death, white trash get donw on your knnes[acoustic version of cake and sodomy with tony wiggins on vocals, the fall of adam are all acoustic manson songs.

and saying marilyn masnons is untalented, umm they had a guitarist at 1 point by the name of JOHN5 who could outplay slash or angus or any of those dudes from the darkness, he can do expressive palying, he can outshred them, he can even due country piking type shit hes just so versatile.

u cant say that out a guitarist whos been writin the same 3-chord riff songs for the past thirty years.[ACDC]

seriusly open up ur mind.

close minded nazis like u shoudlnt even be in it music seriusly. music isnt a place for the closes minded.

-jinny-

[rudesill]

i agree that he is just trashing a music style for sh!ts sake but when i listen to metal core and stuff like that i want to listen to talented guitar players... i.e. matt heafey from trivium and adam(wont attempt his last name) from killswitch engage... he does have a point but he doesnt have to be an @ss about it haha

[michaelgeorgiev]

Korn and Slipknot how the hell are they goth rock???
They are not even goth metal.

Manson may look like a goth but his music isn't!!!!

[epicweapon]

we understand that u like rock and roll but god u are way too general and a disgrace to music. we should throw ur computer in a washing machine ( i do agree with the manson stuff. he is a talentless piece of worthless space with enough problems to make more problems to solve his own problems then to be replacde by more problems!!!!! GOD

[Devilchild3000]

undead_bunny :
Oh god what an idiot....
POSTED: 08/03/2004 - 11:24 am / quote |

Dude I couldn't agree with ya more!

[GenderConfusedJ]

SLIPKNOTTTTT FTW!!!!!

[Mudhippy2011]

I can't belive I just wasted my time to read that crap.... your pretty ignorant man, open your mind.

[diamondstars*]

i think everything i've wanted to say has been said already...
I agree with Mudhippy2011 , i've wasted time to read this..

[BlackandSilver]

You are possibly the most ignorant person I've seen post an article in a long time. Just because you don't like 'Goth music' doesn't mean it's untalented. FWI, it's called METAL, a genre of music that focuses heavily of DRUMS, VOCALS, AND RHYTM-BASED GUITARS AND BASSES.

[anarchomaniac]

One HUGE flaw. HUGE. THE BANDS YOU NAMED ARE NOT GOTH BANDS, dumbass. Fuck, go listen to the original goth music. You're so ****ing ignorant.

[tymanic]

slipknot isnt goth... it's nu metal u dick... and they are talented... joey jordison is one of the best drummers the world has to offer... mick thompson may rarley play solos but he can play them... just listen to pulse of the maggots... Stay (sic) maggots

[me504]

ShoeLaces907 wrote:

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but this album is pure stupidity.

Robert Smith, a goth singer, has more vocal talent and emotional depth in his pinky finger than Axl Rose does in his entire body. Just compare "Sweet Child Of Mine" to "Pictures of You". Then try to play "Pictures of you" and get in right very quickly. Or any of the Cure's songs for that matter. Yeah, gothic musicans are untalented. The fact that you used Manson, Korn, and Slipknot as examples just show how little you know about the subject. Why don't you get informed first and then you can be angry about something?

honestly i think sweet child was harder to play, the only way you could call it easier is the fact its an eaiser song to feel while you play. and i learned your song with presentable perscision in about a half hour.

im not saying the bands have no talent, the drummers and singers are usually pretty good, the guitarists are so-so

BlackandSilver wrote:

You are possibly the most ignorant person I've seen post an article in a long time. Just because you don't like 'Goth music' doesn't mean it's untalented. FWI, it's called METAL, a genre of music that focuses heavily of DRUMS, VOCALS, AND RHYTM-BASED GUITARS AND BASSES.

bull man
the truly talented forms of metal are the original thrash bands (metallica, megadeth) and neoclassical metal(yngwie malmsteen)
im on your side but you cant compare slipknot or korn to them, when its guitar skills or music writing.

i can understand where this guy is coming from, i hate bands that just slap chords together and call it a song but your generallizing and not specifing the group you hate well enough

[morebass]

idiot have you not heard mick thomson he shreds at guitar and he has a ovation acoustic so see idiot slipknot does use acoustic guitars and what doesit matter? maybe they prefer electric over acoustic.

[steeeeeeeeeveee]

Alright, first the term "goth" does not mean heavy music. Its more of a style. Look at the cure, they were considered one of the biggest goth bands ever. And, form what I've heard, they weren't a heavy band. Korn has sat down on stage and played an acoustic.. they did a whole unplugged live concert. Playing a double neck guitar also doesn't make someone a talented guitarist I don't ever remember seeing Jimi Hendrix, Van Halen, Chuck Berry, Calpton, SRV, David Gilmour, etc. play a double neck guitar. The purpose of a double neck is if you need a 12 string and a 6 string in the same song but you don't have time to switch. So next time your about to complain about something, get your facts straight.

[muxthebest1]

You are not allowed to use the words "Slipknot" and "Goth" in the same paragraph, unless they are separated by the word "Destroys".

[tapsumbong]

whoever wrote this is untalented lol

[notaclevername]

i love whoever wrote this. it was touching, lifechanging. marylin manson and korn suck. it's about time somebody said it. so dont get your tripp panties in a wad XD

[3 days grace14]

fendermalmsteen wrote:

This guy is an idiot, plain and simple.

The "goth" look was stolen from Guns n' Roses. Ha!

lol i know this guys an idiot does axl look goth to u jeez

[IanJ]

Give the kid a break. As far as I can tell, the kid's only about 13 or 14, and has formed an extremely uneducated opinion, but it's his, and he has the right to it. Now, as for whoever wrote this thing, almost every single one of your "facts" are faaaaar from correct. I will now go on to give you a few examples. Goth music was around WAY before your time, kid. Also, it was NOWHERE NEAR the first genre with an "anti-authority" message. Also, most Goth music does not contain any sort of anti-authority music. Chances are you're confusing it with another genre. Also, Guns N' Roses dressed nothing close to Goth. Guns dressed as they thought comfortable, and were not the first to dress in leathers and denims and such. That can be traced back about a decade earlier to Judas Priest and other bands in the NWOBHM genre. And also, none of the members of Gn'R have skull tattoos. Point being, your article contains only flaws, spelling errors, and the rantings of a 12 year-old. You are very mis-informed and obviously did no research. I will hope that you will learn from this experience and grow from it as I have. Also, none of the bands you named matched any of the genres you placed them in.

[jared420]

undead_bunny wrote:

Oh god what an idiot....

damn straight. this dude is a complete and total retard. every one has their own opinion buddy. and we dont wanna hear yours.
****ing idiot.

[Wolfsblood138]

This guy fails, no wonder he didn't register lol. Korn, Slipknot being goth wtf? Having to play acoustic or double neck guitars to be good? Another WTF. Playing acoustic and double neck guitars only give the song a different texture or tone, nothing to do with playing ability. You can still play either an acoustic or double neck and still suck as much as this article.

[bmth13]

amen.

ps. marylin manson and korn are great, not untalented

jared420 wrote:

undead_bunny wrote:

Oh god what an idiot....
damn straight. this dude is a complete and total retard. every one has their own opinion buddy. and we dont wanna hear yours.
****ing idiot.

[cal1]

All the greats use double-neck guitars and play acoustics? I've never seen Jeff Hanneman play a guitar with two necks, or an acoustic for that matter, and I think he's a lot better than Jimmy Page. Slipknot and Korn aren't goth, and Marilyn Manson has gone through too many band members for someone to say they suck as a whole.

[xxLunaxx]

You suck

[xxLunaxx]

plus goths hate metalheads too, moron.

[guitarson]

complete bullshit

[dfisher_18]

This is pure ignorant biased opinion. You obviously don't know how to deliver any facts without pissing people off

[Cybil]

First off MM and Korn arnt 'gothic' anything, they are Industrial Rock/Metal and Nu Metal. Second off they both require a degree of talent, your overall knowledge of the genres and there talent which you are completely oblivious to, wipes your shit to the floor. MM I cant say I listen to often but he does his own thing which I respect. And KoRn invented a WHOLE genre, there music is talented perhaps not in the Theory sence, but in the composition of the music.