Why 'Goth' Music Is Untalented

When Rock N Roll was born, it was based around the guitar. Therefore when Rock bands play, they must have talented guitarists that can play in their own unique style. And so time continued through the years and the world saw talent such as Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Ritchie Blackmoore, Eddie Van Halen, Slash and most recently, Justin Hawkins. This list of lead guitarists includes some of the finest talent over the past 50 years. But somewhere along the line, their love for Rock N Roll was mocked. The introduction of Gothic music meant that anyone could make a song with only the help of 3 or 4 chords.

"But what about the Rolling Stones?" you ask. Yes, they did limit their use of chords, but they were undeniably a good band with a talented singer and catchy tunes. Again, their style was ruined! Somebody out there thought it was a good idea to use only a few chords with as much distortion as humanly possible. On top of that, they recruited singers unworth of a high school talent contest. Songs there made louder and singers screamed harder. So where did this all start? The closest record I could find was the introduction of Marylin Manson who was the first to cause controversy in persuading kids to rebel and sing lyrics about hating parents. This was later followed by the likes of Korn and Slipknot. When was the last time you saw Marylin Manson sit down on stage and play an accoustic? All the greats have done it at one point or another. Great guitarists use accoustics to break down songs. They even use double neck guitars, which probably symbolises a good band sinse all the greats have used them.

So why has Goth music ruined the Rock N Roll name? Well its lack of riffs, solo's, ability to hear what chords are being played and err talent! I would guess that the goth look was stolen from Guns N Roses, as they were significant for their black leather outfits and skull tattooes. But they were far from gothic. Goth's probably decided this was a cool way to look and when more musicians looking like them appeared, they typically followed them. This would be the point where leather wearers were into heavy suicidal talentless music and anyone wearing the slightest bit of colour was into dance music. If this keeps up, Rock N Roll will only be a memory of the old time greats. Todays music is Rock, but not Rock N Roll.

Thankfully things are slowly changing. More and more kids are starting to pick up guitars and learn songs like "Smoke On The Water" and "Sweet Child O Mine", or even "Stairway To Heaven". The emerging of The Darkness made people remember what it used to be like to listen to a good old fashioned song full of catchy riffs and speedy Solo's. Velvet Revolver are also bringing back the days of Rock N Roll. Solo's are starting to become cool again and hopefully, sooner or later, people will stop listening to bad music such as the ones mensioned at the beginning of this article. Forget about MTV and the dance music craze. If you want to save something, start at home first. You want to save music? Start by saving Rock N Roll!

Comments

[Mack56]

damn unregistered people. WE HAVE A COLUMN FORUM FOR A REASON. It's not there to look pretty. This is not an article or column, it's just a close-minded rant.

[Cyborg]

Another opinnion article... HIM are considered "Gothic Rock" (although i wouldn't) and they are awsome in my opinnion... Bands shouldn't be hated just because they might not have big solo's or use alot of chords. Its about what is catchy and stays in your mind. (Although some amazing guitarists will do that with anything). Another thing was comparing Justin Hawkins with Page, Hendrix, Slash etc... He is no-where near...

[FreebirdSolo]

Man, as much as I hate goths, this rant sucked.

[IndigoBanana]

well i don't like so called "goth music" at all, but i don't really think you should be ranting like that. People have the right to like whatever they want, and the talent you mention is only your interpretation. You can make some brilliant songs using very limited chords, and if the song captures an emotion or an atmosphere, THAT is talent. Doesn't mean you have to use double necked guitars or acoustics. "All the greats" you mention are just YOUR favourites who do the kinda music YOU like. Don't bring shit like this onto this site ever again.

[cool_geek_dude]

yeh i kinda agree with what ur sayin but ur goin about it the whole wrong way anyway not gonna rate this rant soz ps 3rd (wow never done that b4 it was so anticlimatic )

[fendermalmsteen]

This guy is an idiot, plain and simple.

The "goth" look was stolen from Guns n' Roses. Ha!

[quo_vadis]

u have the worst examples for bands and goth bands require alot more skill then these other bands u talked about like rolling stones, rolling stones suck so much it isn't funny, i doubt u even have half the skill to play a "goth" song so don't judge what u can't even do urself.

[Thegeetarnoob]

Dude, goths did NOT copy GnR. The Goth style of dressing is based on clothing that dates much farther back than the Guns.

[BrofUJu]

Id-i-ot

You're the dumbest person I've ever seen post on this site.

The singers are not all crappy. Take Cristina Scabbia of Lacuna Coil. She's one of the better vocalists out there today IMO. Another example would be Peter Steele of Type O Negative (I like his voice, I know some people probably don't).

Also, the Gothic culture is based on the Goths, who were a bunch of people living in the Middle Ages in Germany who helped kick the Roman Empire's ass.

[janecoffin27]

I don't like goths either but this rant is crap. Just because someone plays an acoustic or double-necked guitar doesn't make them or the band good.

[undead_bunny]

Oh god what an idiot....

[*Arch Dandy*]

This Guy Has A Very Closed Mind
ROCK and Roll Rules !!
And
GOTHS ROCK !!!

[StRuMm3r]

Who did let this stupid, close-minded and uninformed person post that rant in here? Just saying that you need to have solos and more than, I dunno, 6 different chords in a song, or play a double neck or accoustic guitar to be a good band... is a great proof that you're stupid and you don't know a fok about what music really is...

[DaveDaThrasha]

MY F.UCKIN GOD! this guy is such a biased son of a bitch.... To say "goth" music is talentless and not define "goth" music.... slipknot is not goth... thats nu-metal... an is still far more talented than most of the bands u mentioned before... i donno if this fag noticed it but its kinda hard to play in A with out a baritone an play those fast riffs like that.... then about talentless singers... that guy that was talkin bout christina scabbia... hell even the other guy in lacuna coil is pretty talented... further more... i kno a bunch of great bands... with great guitarists.. that never played an acoustic or doubleneck on stage.... slayer for one... an last time i checked kerry king an jeff hanneman are two fukin amazing guitarists whetehr ur like the music or not... now i will say all the crap u said bout page an hendrix an the stones kickin ass... yea thats good stuff.. but that doesnt mean their the greats... personally i think metallica whups all their asses any day... but thats what i think... so go an take what u think... an keep in ur lil box along with ur biased rants, cocksuckin ideas and stupid stereotyped images of goth ppl.. an jump off a ***ing cliff....

p.s. goth didnt come from gnr...its modeled after the middle ages civilization by the same name that kicked the roman empires ass... an more of a vampiric form of dressing.... an we just happen to like black... makes u look slimmer...

-- DAVE DA THRASHA

[Metalology]

I thought slayer was Death Metal? Anyways Dude what your saying is so wrong. Every form of music has a point and "goth" is still good. I dont know if I'm right but I view Ramstein as "goth" and even I think it has talent. Personaly I think the Stones aren't that great. Hendrix is cool but common you dont have to pull out ripping solos for a song to be good. Or play an acoustic. Even Steve Vai likes Korn! So if somone like him thinks Korn is cool, then there is obviously talent in it! I think goth is cool, even though im not one.

[ShoeLaces907]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, but this album is pure stupidity.

Robert Smith, a goth singer, has more vocal talent and emotional depth in his pinky finger than Axl Rose does in his entire body. Just compare "Sweet Child Of Mine" to "Pictures of You". Then try to play "Pictures of you" and get in right very quickly. Or any of the Cure's songs for that matter. Yeah, gothic musicans are untalented. The fact that you used Manson, Korn, and Slipknot as examples just show how little you know about the subject. Why don't you get informed first and then you can be angry about something?

[Arucard]

so much wrong with that article. a) learn how to spell Marilyn, b) the bands you listened arent all goth, most of them werent, c) half of Mansons Holywood album was acoustic, and the acoustic stuff was really good, im not even a big fan but i liked it, plus the Cure are possibly the most famous goth band and they have loads of acoustic. plus i think Goth is a stupid label, its hard to define Goth music, its more of a fashion thing.
still, YOU ARE AN ASS

[Arucard]

also, as for mr shoe laces above my last post, Sweet Child Of Mine has nothin to do with Axl, hes a dick, Slash owns. and its harder to play than Pictures of You

[the_beastly_one]

This dude obviously needs slapped with a wet fish of some sort. Oh, and the first 'gothic' band to get seen I can think of were the Damned. The singer drove around in a hearse and wore lots of black etc. years before Guns 'n' Roses. Jesus fu ck, I don't even know how this article was allowed onto this site.

[psychodelia]

Why is it most of the worst articles are written by unregistered people... blah.

[dane9000]

Your an idiot....... First of all it is Marilyn Manson, and second he does do acoustic songs.

[amunspawn]

wtf! in the valley of the shadow of death, speed of pain. these are marilyn manson songs almost entirely acoustic. do some fukin research first dumbass

[ace_blaze]

i personally despise the whole gothic scene and think it's a bunch of dorks in black who have nothing better to do than be depressed.....but this article was stupid

[Veno]

anybody who puts justin hawkins in the same sentence as Jimmy MotherFucking Page needs to be shot.

this was one of the worse rants I've ever seen. hell it topped the idiot who wrote "What not to do when stating a band"....and that says a lot

[RainDog]

This is undoubtably one of the worst and least informed articles I have ever read on this site. Why do they even put crap like this up?

[Shoestick]

HOLY ************* **** HOW THE HELL DID THIS PIECE OF SHIT GET POSTED?

And Im not one to type in all caps either. Since when are uninformed ten year olds allowed to write? This is why the internet should be for people above 56 inches.

[)Eric(Draven]

Seriously. What is this? Go home.

[msierragtz]

I love rock and roll , I love the bands you mentiones i even like the darkness but dude...Your article sucked

[SingingSabre]

Why not let people listen to what they enjoy listening to?

[Eggy331]

no offense dude, but if ug allowed a rating below 1, i would give you 1 below that. first of all, you didnt mention one goth band in your article. manson used to think he was goth, but he grew out of it. second, your statement about none of those bands having solos or accoustic is painfully incorrect. as many people have already stated, manson has alotta accoustic, and slipknot's newest album has some accoustic songs, and killer solos. might wanna lay low and not write another article until people forget about this one o.O

[im not mental]

listen to the new slipknot. solos? yes. acoustics? yes. talented rhythm guitar riffs? yes.

[noops]

you are a tool. do not write more articles.

[Necronomicon]

Hahahaha you are a retard. Its a good thing you're unregistered or you'd get so much hatemail. Gothic music is some of the most talented music ever. Gothic music is mainly metal. Also, the gothic style has nothing to do with Guns 'n Roses, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. The gothic style comes from, as that guy said, the Gothic civilization. It also comes more from the Rennaissance age as well. I bet you couldnt play one solo from any of the bands I listen to. Pathetic.

[Necronomicon]

Also, Marilyn Manson does not play guitar.

[thePUNISHER]

i like korn(self titled, follow the leader) but we do need to bring back the old stuff

[nofxpunkrocker]

the cure are goth. and if your say they aren't talented, i will proceed to fong you.

[BoxcarSkater]

wtf......dude youre saying Justin Hawkins is like the Jesus of real rock....he might dress weird and stuff but hes just like what you were saying about..."goth rock"...he just acts like that to be cool. by the way my friend saw the darkness a while back and i asked him if they played acoustic after i read this....they didnt

[peter_2004]

IDIOT!

[mötorbread]

This has got to be a joke, I mean c'mon, marilyn manson inventing adolescent rebellion screaming? Either this guy is some depends wearing 55+ year old still moaning over 8 track, or its a hell of a comedian

[dandynik]

i hate goth rock too, but your article sucks.

[rhcpcure2826]

you misrepresent goth haters everywhere

[Ucman3000]

you didnt use very good points, because there are much better reasons to hate goth music. guns n roses started goth? marylin manson was the first person to rebel against parents? altho marilyn is a flaming fag and should get no money for the work he does, you're still wrong.

[Lint]

so when you say goth music is bad i assume your inculding the cure
















ass wipe



please crawl in a whole and die, we are all stupider for having read this bias article

[Valhalla]

Im sorry but ALICE COOPER was the first to explore into the "gothic" area.

[rockjock2552]

what a ***ing *** you *** how could you say that ***ing shit you ***ing dusch bag

[Duke_Fan]

baaddddd idea postin this... lotta goths here at UG ... though im not goth

[RatiugLink]

I hate "Goths" too. But you seenm to have the wrong definition of "Goth". You also do not back yourself up whatsoever.

Goth in the true sense of the word I have no problem with.

[bass_maiden]

Wow...that was one long rant.
You're also very judgemental, ever heard the 'don't judge a book by it's cover' ?
Not all goth music is suicidal, Manson doesn't play guitar and even though I don't really like him, and they 'only use four chords' he has some catchy songs...
And if you're ever gonna do another closed-minded rant, do some ***ing research first!

[dangerlives]

Jackass

[Damicksta2k]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHH! Why do people continuously misuse the word "goth"?

Slipknot, Korn, Manson etc are not examples of gothic music. People who like these bands are not necessarily "goths". Just because you dress in black does not make you a "goth". People have been correct to mention The Cure as an example of a Gothic band (although saying this the band themselves denied that they should have this title), do they sound anything like these bands?

Don't get me started, i could go on for hours about people who consider themselves "goths" but really are offending those from the original gothic period of the late '80s - early '90s (notice that the period has since ended, and has not been resurrected).

As for the idiot who wrote this, lets hope for your sake as well as everyone elses that you stay unregistered.

[Chocolate Balls]

I agree, that the new bands make simpler music, and that some bands could benefit by writing solo's. But still, a lot of bands can get away with that. Instead, they fill in that blank spot with their looks and style's. You have to agree, that video's and concerts made by today's bands, are far more advanced and they just look better. Look at Rammstein for example; their songs are rather simple, they use almoust no solo's, even if they do, they are basically the same, only slightly modified. But yet, they make up for that by giving unbelievable concerts. So, what you've said, is not always true.

[MadSchecterGTR]

Dude this was one of the sh!ttiest articles I've read in awhile. Having an amazing guitar playing doesn't make your band the best. Having a good band makes your music good.

[foofighter8989]

I'd rather listen to the Cure than Deep Purple.

[Me09]

I hate rants. I hate nu metal, for the most part. Marilyn Manson, Korn, and Slipknot are nu metal. Gothic I would say Cradle of Filth. They dont suck. Learn to read up on something before you go rant. Oh yeah, and the darkness and velvet revolver suck ass.

[misfitsrocker14]

You, columnist are gay. I hate you.

[SRVGuitarFreak]

I didn't even waste time reading the article, I can tell by the title that it's very opinionated, and I acualy don't care if if Goth music is talented or not.

[ThEgReEnMuNkY]

goths suck, I agree. But you obviously know nothing about the subject your writing on, slipknot and korn goth hahaha...












The phrase "Life is short, kill as many as possible." was coined for people just like yourself

[Resiliance]

Shut up, you ignorant twat.

[Freepower]

this is probably the single stupidest article ever. You want to try your luck with a Berzerker setlist or a slayer solo, have a go at it, see how "untalented" my "goth" friends are.

[GreenDayChris]

' Marylin Manson who was the first to cause controversy in persuading kids to rebel ' LOL!
You my friend, are a fool!

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

HEY BUDDY IS CALLED EVOLUTION(ehf-oh-lu-shun) E V O L U T I O N OF ROCK! DAMN, I UNDERSTAND BASHING SLIPKNOt BUT I GUARENTEE U HAVENT LISTENED TO KORN TOO MUCH

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

and korn isnt goth, and they acctually sing

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

rockjock2552:
what a ***ing *** you *** how could you say that ***ing shit you ***ing dusch bag
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:23]|

Duke_Fan:
baaddddd idea postin this... lotta goths here at UG ... though im not goth
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:25]|

RatiugLink:
I hate "Goths" too. But you seenm to have the wrong definition of "Goth". You also do not back yourself up whatsoever.

Goth in the true sense of the word I have no problem with.
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:33]|

bass_maiden:
Wow...that was one long rant.
You're also very judgemental, ever heard the 'don't judge a book by it's cover' ?
Not all goth music is suicidal, Manson doesn't play guitar and even though I don't really like him, and they 'only use four chords' he has some catchy songs...
And if you're ever gonna do another closed-minded rant, do some ***ing research first!
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:41]|

dangerlives:
Jackass
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:53]|

Damicksta2k:
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHH!
Why do people continuously misuse the word "goth"?

Slipknot, Korn, Manson etc are not examples of gothic music. People who like these bands are not necessarily "goths". Just because you dress in black does not make you a "goth". People have been correct to mention The Cure as an example of a Gothic band (although saying this the band themselves denied that they should have this title), do they sound anything like these bands?

Don't get me started, i could go on for hours about people who consider themselves "goths" but really are offending those from the original gothic period of the late '80s - early '90s (notice that the period has since ended, and has not been resurrected).

As for the idiot who wrote this, lets hope for your sake as well as everyone elses that you stay unregistered.


[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:55]|

Chocolate Balls:
I agree, that the new bands make simpler music, and that some bands could benefit by writing solo's. But still, a lot of bands can get away with that. Instead, they fill in that blank spot with their looks and style's. You have to agree, that video's and concerts made by today's bands, are far more advanced and they just look better. Look at Rammstein for example; their songs are rather simple, they use almoust no solo's, even if they do, they are basically the same, only slightly modified. But yet, they make up for that by giving unbelievable concerts. So, what you've said, is not always true.
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 16:58]|

MadSchecterGTR:
Dude this was one of the sh!ttiest articles I've read in awhile. Having an amazing guitar playing doesn't make your band the best. Having a good band makes your music good.

damn straight :cheers:

[FJM2C]

to the author: go f*** yourself and your "i must label everything" attitude you ignorant prick . And the bands you gave as examples of "goth" (which does not exist) are actually nu-metal.

[Metallicat251]

I ***in hate goths. the article was kinda pointless. but true.

[numnuts]

i think goth music really sucks too, but i dunno what all this stuff i about them copping gNr

[peter_2004]

sweet mother of god you suck!

[bajsbomb]

FJM2C> Yeah, but nu-metal stinks aswell... :P

Anyways you are all a bunch of misspelling c*nts, who cares about which music others listen to?! What's the problem, REALLY?

[Doolittle88]

You should get your facts straight before you write an article.....you seem to think goth is nu-metal

[Diceman42]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I CANT BELIEVE HE PUT JUST HAWKINS ON THERE!!

tool.

[MonkeyAteMySoul]

wow, listen to opeth, more than four chords there and realy good solo's, listen to children of bodom, ridiculusly hard to play, listen to in flames, solos harmonies, catchy shit, Iv proven my point and wasted my time, thank you very much

[Zeke5000]

wow..........that really really sucked. i cant believe how much that sucked. I hate goth but that was barely correct. All rock is about rebelling. not just goth.

[chinko]

why do people hate goths so much??? lol

this article reeked, i could tell it was bad when u mentioned justin hawking *shudders*. PLEASE, are you setting your talentless opinion on some shitty CD you picked up and thought was goth???

[Cymbaline]

wow this is retarded I mean you are entitled to your opinion but there was other music promoting rebellion before goth.... hmm let me thing PUNK I love that too but you don't bring that up. When was the last time Marilyn Manson played acoustic you ask? well Dl Coma White, or The Last Day on earth, great songs ACOUSTIC... ppl think Slipknot was ruined cuz they had some acoustic songs... your info was faulty there... but if you hate goths for rebelling how do you not hate punks, or most rockers most rock was considered "rebel music" or "devil music" look at the hatred bass for bands like Kiss, or even Led Zeppelin... they are just as rebel as Marilyn Manson. You obviously haven't seen this fine movie called Bowling for Columbine, it has nothing to do with this but Micheal Moore interviews Marilyn Manson and Matt Stone of South Park and they were the voice of reason. They were more intelligent than some of these right wing ppl, but hate all you want, I just wanted to point out some of your info was wrong.

[GuitarN00b]

hahahahahaha...so according to him, everything that sucks can be labeled "goth?" i can go for that...

[Cymbaline]

oh also, the look wasn't from Axl one of the huge looks came from Robert Smith of the cure, The Cure is amazing yet I have heard them referred to as "goth rock" other metal bands from Germany and any death metal Sepultra and stuff influenced the look not Axl Rose.... that would be hair band stuff there kiddy. Axl is up there with Brett Micheals, the guy from Poison, and ofcourse Dee Snider and all of twisted sister that is hair metal, not goth look

[Pumpkins4Life]

people, people, people the cure are not goth rock, Robert Smith has made this quite clear in numerous interviews, he says that they are only gothic by association. by the way marilyn manson, slipknot, and all nu-metal just plain sucks time for them to learn more than 4 or 5 chords and make an album with songs that sound different than the previous ones

[metal_fanatic]

ok, that was the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Don't get me wrong, I hate goth music, but the article just plain sucked, and didn't present anything persuasive. Are you trying to tell me marilyn manson sucks cause he doesn't play acoustic guitar? cmon, what are u, 2?

[chinko]

i dont play a double necked bass, or a acoustic bass, so do i suck and am i gothic?

[NeKxROMANTIC]

dude, the bands that you named are either nu metal or industrial metal, not goth rock, goth-rock is bands like the cure and sisters of mercy, and they do have talented guitar playing, if your going to go so far as to have a large article with lots info to back up your point, at least know what the *** your talkin about, most people who think that they're goths arent, they are just pissy metal-heads who wear black and complain about the world, real goths (if there are any left) arent ***in ignorant or annoying, and by the way, you dont have 2 play an acoustic guitar to have talent, there are lots of great guitarists who play only electric and lots of crappy guitarists who play only acoustic, you dont have to sound nice to play well

[birdman]

i think the main point is not whether the music is gothic or not, it matters whether the band has talent. It is true that people these days can pick up a guitar and play a few power chords and say they are talented because they sound like the shit bands out there today. This article is right! Long live rock and roll screw the bloody talentless shit we hear today

[birdman]

but the article sucked. . . .i forgot to say that

[AvixK7]

This article is pathetic. opinionated, one-sided, clearly uninformed.

Forget about MTV and the dance music craze. If you want to save something, start at home first. You want to save music? Start by saving Rock N Roll!

Rock n roll has never been in danger idiot. it's just not mainstream anymore, which is perfectly fine. For example, Radiohead isn't blowing up the charts but it still has a great fan base. so basically all that you've said is that anything that doesn't suit you tastes in music is ruining rock music. That is pathetic and narrow-minded.

[DarkMurderDoll]

This article sux.

[uragooch33]

This article is pathetic. opinionated, one-sided, clearly uninformed

im agreeing with avixk7 i dont like goth music at alllll ummm but you obviously have nooo idea what your talking about because rock has not been ruined by goth music or any other form of music for that matter just because a defferent type of music is popular at the time(which i didnt think goth was popular) doesnt mean that the genre dies..........in fact its probably much better that rock is more underground now. another point that i would like to make is the fact that you are very uneducated on what goth is cause you only named the most popular goth bands and some of those are only borderline goth so to sum it all up you did a horrible job on this article

[Wickedcarny]

That was the worst article i have ever written. Did not clearly define "goth" music...nor really explain or do anything but waste 2 minutes of my life. thanks asshole.

[Ash-Ock]

Goths in general suck. I've only met one who was caring and kind. The rest are assholes. Good job.

[poot]

this article would have been better had it been written 15 years ago. unfortunately, it wasn't. shut the hell up.

[Unknown Soul]

i agree...completely biased article. you're saying that if someone doesn't stop to play an acoustic part in a song that the song sucks? you know...last time i heard WHIPLASH by MetallicA it most definitely did NOT suck and i don't remember any acoustic parts in it...nor in CREEPING DEATH. and just for the record...i have an mp3 of MARILYN MANSON performing LAST DAY ON EARTH acoustic biotch. i hate the darkness by the way...that's one big led zeplin ripoff band through and through.

have you not listened to THE CURE? TYPE O NEGATIVE? SIOUSXE (sp?) AND THE BANSHEES? how about this...there's a band out of new jersey called EMPIRE HIDEOUS...listen to some of their stuff especially the VICTIM DESTROYS ASSAILANT cd.

and watch what you say about goths as people. not all of us are "assholes" to quote Ash-Ock. there's people at my school that have stated that they are terrified at me by seeing me walk around in all black, in fishnet shirts, chains on my pants and shorts, and eyeliner with black fingernail polish. but anyone that *knows* me would testify otherwise.

[Unknown Soul]

and i just noticed CYBORG'S post...HIM is an AWESOME band from finland that are considered gothic. they've got your acoustic breakdowns and solos and awesome riffs and everything you're looking for. so please actually look into a genre beyond two artists before you go labeling the whole thing.

[ShoeLaces907]

To Arucard:

I wasn't comparing them musically. I was comparing them in terms of emotion, depth, etc...I can see how you would think the other way though, I didn't word it great.

[bean_brain]

Oh great, another article bitching against a genre. REAL original buddy. Now I'm not saying I disagree with most of your article but what I am saying is that self-righteous drivel like this makes for really lame reading.

[Radiating Eye]

EVERY ONE, DO NOT CLAIM TO KNNOW SHIT ABOUT GOTHS. THE VISIGOTHS AND THE OSTROGOTHS DID NOT WEAR BLACK AND WORE NO CRAZY CLOTHES. THEY DID NOT LISTEN HARDCORE MUSIC. SO THEREFOR, YOU CANNOT CALL SOME ONE LIKE MARYLIN MANSON A GOTH, HES JUST A FAG WHO TRIED TO BE COOL BY WEARING FAKE TITS...UHH, THE ARTICLE SUCKED HOWEVER AND UHH...FUCK YOU? IDK

[buckethead101]

f*** goth music (except evanescence) coz they don't use the concept of talent

[An80sAbortion]

im almost crying on the inside about how people rip off and try to, yet hardly, bring back the great thing that was goth rock. and you should never label those bands you mentioned as "goth" yet more like "music for kids who want to rebel but can't really rebel in the long run". hmm. but STILL! don't put down anytype of music. the talent doesn't matter. it's what you like. just get the facts strait. and forgive me, i dounderstand that some people do enjoy the music for the music and not to rebel.

[An80sAbortion]

AND STOP F*CKING GIVING THIS VIOLENT IMAGE TO THE GOTH SUBCULTURE! F*CK!

[VehemenceOwns]

ok, first of all, this ***er knows nothing of what hes talking about. What he is talking about could most closely resemble black metal, although it wouldnt be considered goth music. The "goth" you are talking about if i interpret correctly, is when the bands dress in all black and sometimes wear corpse paint. A good example of this would be the band Dimmu Borgir, none of the guitarists use acoustics ever, none of their songs contain any acoustics either. But anyone who knows anything about it knows that a good black metal song does have lots of chords, and very good leads and solos. I guarantee that galder, silenoz, and even shagrath of dimmu could tear any of those bands you named to shreds. Another good example of goth music could be another black metal band called Emperor, in emperor, they do dress in all black, and they burn churches and kill faggots like you. I hope a "real" goth, not some ***ing pussy mall poser, comes and finds you and teaches you a lesson.

[desecratedone]

where as i agree with sum of ur comments u should leave korn alone they r awsome slipknots an mansons music should never have seen the light of day (or black of nite)and so should the darkness music but if u want sum great guitar solos then u should check out metallica the greatest musicians out there who noe about the soul of the guitar

[rockjock2552]

[QUOTEpeople, people, people the cure are not goth rock, Robert Smith has made this quite clear in numerous interviews, he says that they are only gothic by association. by the way marilyn manson, slipknot, and all nu-metal just plain sucks time for them to learn more than 4 or 5 chords and make an album with songs that sound different than the previous ones
[POSTED: 03 August 2004 - 19:39]| ]

look i hate Manson but get off of John 5 he is one of the most talanted players around listen to him play sometime and tell me if you are that good. just becaues some thing is goth does not means it sucks it just means that it is black and loud

[hobo8917]

stop writing horrible articles!

[Who8MyFish]

This retard totally missed the point of "rock n roll" rock n roll started as a way for guitar players to score with as many chicks as humanly possible although it soon became the purest form of rebellion against all authority. From your parents to god and everyone in between it doesn?t really mater who you are so to say that bands like Slipknot I.C.P & Marilyn Manson have ruined rock n roll is entirely wrong in fact they have brought the next step in rocks eternal evolution to the masses and began to pave the way for the next group of ***ed up kids to take stage and ruin what these bands have dedicated their lives to their version of ?Rock N Roll?

[nali182]

im not gonna bother reading everyones replies so forgive me i this has already been said, but this article is poorly researched. i have doneno research on the topic and i know alice cooper was much earlier than any of the bands he/she mentions as goth rock. also ive seen manson play an accoustic set on a dvd ive got ... and john 5, his guitarist frequently uses double neck guitars not that i see the significance of it.

[white_waltz]

I dont like goth rock at all but this is a major close minded rant that i feel like i discrimanted all goth music jsut by reading this article. First of all its great that you've made the delcaration that ALL "goth music" bands only use a couple chords. Thanks for clarifying that my eyes must have been decieving me when i looked at some "goth music" tabs and they had far mroe than a couple chords. Next, thank you for researching before this article, because i met a lot of people that consider Slipknot and korn nu-metal, but when they say this now i can merely laugh and say "You morons they aren't new metal they are goth music and if you lsiten to them you are a goth." Thirdly, i wanted to save music. Thanks for clarifying i can ONLY do this by saving rock n' roll. Ok am i the only one who thinks to save music we should save classical? Some of the greatest rock legends of all time where musical geniuses and had first learned by deeply studying classical music. They then took their knowledge they recieved from learning classical and applied it took make great sounding and genius rock n' roll works. It's kind of ironic how in order to save music and your favorite genre (which im assuming is rock n'roll) you give advice that would in fact dam* us to many more years of bands spewing out crappy music. But hey, at least it wont be "goth music". Oh i have one queston for you, wouldnt Guns and Roses be "Goth Music"? I mean according to your article above the all of the goth's stole all of their fashion from Guns n' roses. I mean this most likely means that they had be fans of guns n'roses to steal their fashion. Since guns n' roses music was beinglsitned to by goths doesnt that make it music for goths aka "goth music"?

[fuel13]

the only problem that i have with this column is that it sucked. if you have an opinion then you can keep it ytou yourself. nobody is going to listen to what you have to say, so just dont ever write anything again.

[comingclean55]

First of all I agree iI'm not a fan of Marilyn Manson, Korn, or Slipknot but I have the decency to respect others opinions your opinion is not going to change what people listen to therefore people should keep stuff to themselves sometimes you obviously wanted to start something with so called "goths" and you did but you forgot that many people were happy when music got simple. I can honestly say that Guns n' Roses are assholes and I don't like them but that doesnt mean Im going to parade down to city hall with a ***ing banner. Not only have you insulted the fans of this kind of music which also includes punk... you've insulted the music industry for being ignorant and calling your self a music fan. For the person who stood up for the cure it was very cool of you to recognise such a great band but there not goth were they ever as said according to an interview with Robert Smith but please keep listening to the music you guys love for the differences between us make the world a better place.
Your friendly neighborhood musician

[fuel13]

Some of the greatest rock legends of all time where musical geniuses and had first learned by deeply studying classical music. They then took their knowledge they recieved from learning classical and applied it took make great sounding and genius rock n' roll works. - white_waltz


kirk hammett from metallica went to college to study classical music, and i think that he got his masters degree in it, tho im not sure about that part. well what u said is true and i fully agree with you.

[zsmith]

wow...it doesn't get much more opinionated than this. i for one don't consider myself "goth" by any means, however i do know one thing...that many goth musicians have talent...much more talent than whatever two-bit hack that wrote this article has. they didn't even have the guts to register and let their name be known.

[yeller56]

Slipknot and KoRn and every***ing band mentioned here in this shitful rant is not gothic. Gothic is like Cradle Of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, In Flames. Those are some to start off, now not every great needs to play an acoutic or a double-neck. Slayer has not made any song acoustic or with the use of a double-neck. Given the chance I would find the nearest object and shove down your throat, you have no knowledge of music. Now kindly, die and burn in hell.

[Burn in hell]

quo_vadis:
u have the worst examples for bands and goth bands require alot more skill then these other bands u talked about like rolling stones, rolling stones suck so much it isn't funny, i doubt u even have half the skill to play a "goth" song so don't judge what u can't even do urself.

The Rolling stones are one of the most most favoured Rock and Roll band in the world. You are a complete fuc*ing moron!! And to the author: the stones played more then a few simple chords!!! Keith Richards was voted the greatest rhythm guitar player in the world. Good God! you people have bad taste in music.

[Steph Bets]

justin hawkins is ONE guitarist in the darkness. dan hawkins his bro is the main lead guitarist

[bAllzOUT420]

you, my friend, are a giant smelly cunt. you have not appreciation for musicianship in any way, shape, or form. since you will find some of the most creative and talented musicians playing "gothic" music. but its pretty obvious that you only wrote this article to piss people off and amuse yourself, so i could care less what you say about any type of music

[rocket_queen888]

whats his brothers name?

[Unseen_hero]

"goth" or do you mean nu-metal? does suck.

double necked guitars and solos don't make a band good. and a good band based on that doesn'ts ond too original.

[Chocolate Balls]

God damn, they really hate ur article!

[dylan_f1989]

THIS SO CALLED COLUMN WAS MADE BY AN IGNORANT PERSON WHO DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE DECENCY TO LOOK UP WHAT HE SO BADLY PUTS DOWN AS BAD. AND YOU SAID STUFF DANCE MUSIC. DUDE YOU CAN'T DANCE TO A 20 MINUTE SOLO.

[Rockstar_450]

IF A PUNK BAND USES ACOUSTICS OR DOUBLE NECKS IT DOESN'T MAKE THEM ANY LESS S**T!! look up your info before you do it. The instruments you use have no relevence to your song quality. anyway to counter your claims, listen to opeth they use many acoustics.

and metal musicianship is many times better than most rock types (excluding clasic rock ofcoarse)

[RememberMyName]

First, you are biased. Second, you named nu metal bands and called them gothic. Third, Marilyn Manson is a genius who has sh*t to say (good sh*t at that) and is a very nice, knowledgeable man who's music should be R 18+ because teens take his lyrics literally not metaphorically and kill themselves. Fourth, I love old metal and many of the songs you mentioned, and I believe there is never enough (and music is currently lacking) guitar solos, so don't bag me for being a nu metal or goth lover. Fifth, name any other non-stereotypical songs when you talk about metal cause you sound like all the semi-talented punk guitarists at my school who think they are top sh*t because they can play these stereotypical rock songs. PUNK only takes a few chords, NU Metal only takes a guitar tuner that will recognise Drop F# and a mad but suicidal drummer, and GOTH music takes a BELIEF STRUCTURE!!!

[Encore_God]

Sweet Child Of Mine has nothin to do with Axl

Oh no, course not, he only wrote the lyrics and the chords... moron.

[Encore_God]

The introduction of Gothic music meant that anyone could make a song with only the help of 3 or 4 chords.

WTF?! MOST ROCK N ROLL IS 3 CHORDS YOU DIVOT!

[driftinguitar]

this thread is so ridiculous, i'm starting to like "goth music." the author's lucky he/she's unregistered, because even though i usually don't burn people, this guy deserves it.

[peilun]

?????
1 star....
i hate goth but i don't know... cheap article...
no point at all.....

[vinniebeast]

Wasn't John 5 Marylin Manson's guitarist? I thought he was supposed to be a good guitarist, because he's bringing a soloalbum out.

[AxeMan88uk]

Idiot, u name Nu-Metal bands as goth bands, and u wudnt know a goth if one came to bite u in the a**.
u clearly know nothing cos if u ask a REAL goth bout those bands your mentioning they would also agree with u in hating them, 'goth' nowadays on bands like evanescence is just a commercial name like blink 182 are called punk (which they clearly aint). If u heard real goth music u would know their is talent.

[egor]

dude you are a dumbazz ! everything you mentioned is not a gothic at all !!! not even close !!! gothic is a post punk music and sub culture , it took its roots from old school (as id call it rite now for being exact) punk rock .

[sanitarium017]

im not sure what goth music is... that guy mentioned nu-metal bands and called them gothic... i dont understand...

________________________
THRASH METAL WILL RETURN

[prettylikedrugs]

its not just the guitarist that matters. a band is made up of more than just the guitarist. you have to look at the whole band to 'judge' and not just the guitars. pleese keep your opinions to yourself in future instead of inflicting them on people who have more than two brain cells

[JimmyJackrabbit]

I wouldn't really worry about goth rock taking over rock n roll buddy. You're paranoid. Oh, and Manson has done acoustic before....you twat....

This article isn't really any different from one of the Good Charlotte articles, you just changed the band names....

[numetaldude]

i just don't get what the point was... i mean, at least 80% of UG people hate nu metal.. so why write another article against it??? everybody knows that nu metal is ruining rock n roll although some people (myself included) refuse to accept that fact!

[Jeffultura]

It's this holier then though attitude that causes alot of kids to just give up on music all together. Put down the hairspray and get out of the 80's. There is alot more to music then a Gibson Les Paul and a generic blues scale. Plenty of goth bands use classical scales and measures in their music which alot of people will tell you is a hell of alot harder then playing the blues. So with Goth having more in common with Bethoven then your precious Guns n Roses I ask you, which is really the more talented of the two?

[Unknown Soul]

Cruxshadows. Blutengel. The Cure. Lacuna Coil. Opeth. Faith and the Muse.

just a few actual gothic bands for the author to check out.

[Unknown Soul]

and one final addition on my behalf...

goth music is some of the most complex music you'll find. most real goth bands will incorporate synth, keys, guitars, bass, drums, and sometimes orchestra instruments (cruxshadows heavily relies on a violinist for example) to add a very ethereal mood and melodic, creepy atmosphere.

[Sneaky-i]

hahahahaha........***head!

It does my ***ing head in when people's opinions are so misinformed. Sorry but to put it straight:

The early eighties produced a goth movement with bands such as 'souixse and the band banshees' , 'the cure' , 'Fields of Nephilim' etc. These bands brought the goth image into the public eye more than ever before.

In the nineties people such as Trent Reznor and his one time protoge, Marilyn Manson incorporated some goth sensibilities into their image.
Some bands associated with Death Metal, Black Metal and so forth, also chose to adopt an image which would be seen be some as goth. However I do believe there is a difference between true goths and this variant.

Finally, just to let u know that nu-metal bands have nothing to do with goth. This image is based on ***ing 'Buffy' or 'Angel' more than goth.


Just to finish, the creativity, musical ambition and technique of many of these artists would be most likely be beyond your obviously limited understanding of your chosen subject.

YOU ARE A CUNT!

Some modern nu-metal

[Sneaky-i]

^last line is not part of post.

[Encore_God]

and the Muse

Muse aren't a Goth band!

[Bumper]

Alright, the Gothic style came from the clothing style of the British punk movement in the late 80's, not the ostrogoths or visigoths from ancient times. The Damned were not a gothic band but were a punk band. Dave Vanian (the singer) did wear all black and make up but this was not considered gothic, it was just a stage costume, like the same way that Captain Sensible (their bassist) would always wear a nurses outfit on stage. Also to the dickhole who said if you don't do acoustic songs or play a doubleneck you aren't good, COME THE FUCK ON MAN!!!! I cant remember very many acoustic songs from Hendrix, or any doubleneck stuff from people like Buddy Guy, or B.B. King. Manson, even though I utterly despise his music, has a great guitarist. The guitar you play, beit a 6, 12, 7 string, doubleneck or acoustic, does not make you great. Years of practice does that. This column was written out of sheer ignorance and for reading it we are all now dumber and closer to your level, good ***ing job.

[Bumper]

Also how can you seriously say MAnson was the first to persuade kids to rebel? To persuade kids to sing against thier parents? My God man. What has rock been about since the dawn of time? Rock has built it's foundation on rebelling, and being ones self.

[M.Feeney]

After reading this, and many other crap articles, I have come to the conclusion that people write crap articles purposly... To see what everyone will say... Well it's time the bullshit stopped. If I was in the same room as you I'd ****ing kick your ass!

[lpclassic696]

I'm not a fan of goth music, but like a good leader you need tolerance, people like goth music for a reason, figure out what it is and learn something from it, you just might get better

[metallicacdc]

who gives a shit?

[Skidrowpunk]

either i'm 1516 or 1355

[amunspawn]

this guy might be on his way to beating the "how 2 know your right for guitar article" in the amount of hate he created towards himself

[amunspawn]

.

[Butterknife]

you are a real moron.

[any14doomsday]

It dosnt matter cause thrash owns....and so does molly hatchet...the hatchet owns too

[Psykotik]

What a stupid article!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wtf does Korn, Manson and Slipknot has to do with goths??????????????


You do not know what is a real goth, kid...

[Psykotik]

Oh and what really ruined music is nu metal,pop,rap,pop punk... not goths' music!

[FrankNslash]

dude i like the darkness and all but you dont put justin hawkins in the same sentence as jimmy page eddie van halen and slash

[totenkopf]

This is, by far, the worst ***ing article I have ever
read here!!!!
FUCKING DUMBASS!!!!! CRAWL IN A HOLE AND DIE!!!!!!!!!

[dresedtodepres]

well none of the bands you listed were goth rock anyways

[amunspawn]

does anyone actually read anyones comments cos you've all just repeated the same fukin stuff over and over.

[Death Of Season]

not really about the article, just about the mention of slipknot: mick and jim are two of the most talented guitarists recording music right now. and neither slipknot nor korn are 'goth' bands.

[llPmaNNxll]

your damn right on the whole hardly any of this 3-4 power chord shit is anywhere near talent. goth music is nothing but untalented screamers beating a yak to death with their guitars. try learning music from the 60's and 70's. ok goth music is not slipknot korn or manson is poser goth music. it sucks anyway. pick up an acoustic and begin to learn what a C, G, E, F, A, and B chords are and think to yourself wow this sounds a lot nicer then screaming. on a final note what korn slipknot or manson member can play any one of jimmy page's solos id be surprised if any of them could.

[trappedshadow87]

Manson doesn't play guitar you f.uckwads. He's a vocalist and sometimes plays keyboard. Who cares if somebody can play like Slash or Page. They're good in their own right and they have their fans (including myself), but you can't compare goth to straight up rock. it doesnt work that way. Figure it out for yourself, I'm done.

[distorted_order]

dudes, if you dislike such music, than ignore it. and if you wanna change something, then start playing classical RnR yourself instead of complaining all the time and bashing talented artists...

ignorant idiots

[bass_player15]

this is a biased article. if you were goth for half of your life and then just a rocker for the other half then it wouldnt be biased. look like the guy above me said, just ignore it, dont bash. U have now just insulted every goth that may be a member of this site. u have to remember that we have a wide variety of ppl on this site. we have white ppl, black ppl, asians and everything in between. and we ahve life styles such as gays ,lesbians, bi, goth, very religious. there for u have to watch wut u post or you'll end up offending someone. next time think before u post an article

[haines62]

goth people are faggots

[Kingtab69]

I THINK YOU ALL NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP. THIS GUY HAS A GOOD POINT GOTH MUSIC SUCKS!!!

[haines62]

i agree with kingtab69, this is one of the best articles i have ever read

[exit233]

hmm I wouldn't go as far as to say it's the best article ever written. It has no real solid reasons backing it up, just another idiot labeling everything and everyone involved...telling us why the hell we shouldn't listen to Goth rock..unfortunately you haven't convinced me to stop with the petty reasons you give. If you wanna go and bash everyone, and not give a damn about who you might be insulting along the way, go run for office ***tard.

[MyDogAteAString]

this is the stupidest article i've read

[yeller56]

If a good guitarist needs to do an acoustic song. I guess Good Charlotte must be something special to him.

[TommyWIg]

there is nothing wrong with goths. i find they are actually pretty nice people. slipknot has guitar solos dumbass. they also have acoustic songs.do ur reasearch bud.

[SquishingMelons]

Um, I've seen Manson do an acoustic set before. Not to stand up for "goth" music, but maybe you should research this stuff better next time. Manson played a set with the Smashing Pumpkins, all acoustic.

[TommyWIg]

oops i spelled research wrong

[shinkyo00]

You idiot do some research to support your thesis before you write something. If you want to rant like you just did then post it somewhere on the forum not as an article for people to ridicule.

[shinkyo00]

Also, there are tight rhythm parts that are just as hard to play as lead parts. Your lead guitar list is also inadequate. What about instrumental guitarists and virtuosos such as Jason Becker, Steve Vai, John Petrucci etc? I'll bet you Dream Theater can rip the Darkness a new asshole with their guitar playing.