Natural Talent

What do most people say when they witness a breathtaking performance by an artist? You would be likely to hear statements such as: "I wish I could do that, but I don't have the talent" "Only the "chosen few" can create art at such a high level". Before long, a student will start to ask himself: "Do I have the talent that is required to improve as a musician?" After all everybody you ask tries to get you to believe that talent is one of the core requirements of becoming a great musician/artist, right?

In this article, I will attempt to convince you why I consider this belief to be false and unproductive.

First of all, what is talent? If you ask somebody to define the term, chances are they won't be able to come up with a useful definition. You might hear things like: "Talent is something that you are born with, you either have it or you don't"

Ponder this: when you think about ANY other career field or endeavor (becoming a scientist, doctor, brain surgeon, airplane pilot etc...) and then you ask yourself: what does it take to reach a high level of performance in any one of these fields? The answers would be something like: "Well, you have to go to school, get an education, then get some experience in the job field, gain more knowledge and eventually after years of hard work and study you will get to the level you desire." So essentially, you are acquiring a SET OF SPECIFIC SKILLS as well as knowledge and experience in your field of study.

Now if you ask most people: "What does it take to become a good musician" Chances are that the main response would be: "lots of talent and practice" Why is art (and music) considered to be basically the only field where "talent" seems to be one of the primary deciding factors? Why isn't talent a "requirement" for becoming a doctor for instance? Think about this logically. Most people won't even think about "talent" if they were to go into a science field for instance. They will primarily concerned with is acquiring the right education for what they want to do. They know that if they go through the hard work required over the course of many years they will succeed in reaching their goals.

Now I hear some people saying: "Well making artistic/creative music requires talent, because you can have all the knowledge in the world but still create mediocre music, right?" Wrong!! Creating meaningful music that moves people is a matter of knowing what you want to express and acquiring the right tools. It also takes a deep LOVE for music and the DEEP, BURNING DESIRE to express oneself. This is the one ingredient that is frequently missing even when all the knowledge in the world is present. Think about it in plain terms: becoming a good musician (or a good anything) requires a specific set of skills. To a musician and guitarist in particular (some of) these skills include: well developed technique, good understanding of music theory AND knowing how to apply it, ear training, improvisational skills, and compositional ability. Each of these are specific skills that need to be ACQUIRED, and since they are LEARNED, they can be also be taught. Now the problem that is very often present is that of LACK OF COMPETENT INSTRUCTION. This is the single biggest reason why a lot of musicians (particularly guitarists) fail to get good. Guitar technique is very often not taught with the necessary depth it requires, partly because the guitar is a relatively new instrument which is still evolving. Piano and violin pedagogy for example is way ahead of guitar, which is part of the reason why there are a lot more great pianists and violinists than guitarists. In addition, a lot of musicians learn lots of theory but are never shown how to apply it to enhance their creativity. As a result you will hear some people tell you not to bother with learning music theory because it is not useful and will just inhibit your creativity. So the very often the problem is not lack of talent on the student's part, it is the lack of ability to teach effectively on the teacher's part! There are very few great music teachers who can produce results effectively with students(unless one is studying music at a university or conservatory) especially when compared to teachers in other fields such as science and medicine to name a few.

Now I would like to make one thing plain. I'm not trying to state that there is no such thing as natural talent. It does exist and it does help. Jamie Andreas (at guitarprinciples.com) defines this commonly misunderstood term as the "body's innate predisposition to do the right things instinctively" These "things" that the naturally gifted person does intuitively can be analyzed, defined and then taught by a competent teacher. However, as mentioned above, most guitar teachers aren't competent.

Of course some people might argue that you need the so called talent to CREATE expressive music. But this is simply not true. There is one thing however that when it comes to creating expressive music that you either have or do not have. And that is DESIRE. You have to feel the desperate need to hear the music, the need that will be satisfied by bringing your unique music forth. This IS the true MUSICAL talent that is either present or absent. EVERYTHING else are sets of tools that can be acquired with time, practice, perseverance and by studying with a great teacher. After all you wouldn't try to learn how to fly a plane from someone who you weren't sure you could trust as an instructor, would you? So it is essential that you select your teachers carefully. My friend and mentor, Tom Hess, has written a great article on the subject entitled "Choosing a Teacher" which I highly recommend to check out.

As one final point I would like to show you a quote from one of the greatest composers in the history of music.

"People make a mistake who think that my art has come easily to me. Nobody has devoted so much time and thought to composition as I. There is not a famous master whose music I have not studied over and over." - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart

As you may know, Mozart was a child prodigy who is believed to be one of the most "talented" musicians that ever lived. There are rumors that he never wrote any of his music down, that he just heard it naturally in his head. This may or may not be true, but the fact is that he still worked extremely hard to get to the level of compositional prowess that he attained. Had he decided to not push himself to seek knowledge in order to develop his skills, he would never have created any of the awesome music that he is now so famous for.

Hopefully you now see that the best question to ask yourself is not "Do I have talent?" but rather "Do I have the DESIRE to seek out the best possible instruction in music that will enable me to reach my goals? And do I have the love in my heart for music and the passion required to sustain my efforts in becoming a great musician?" You can contact me at [e-mail]. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. I reply to all e-mails.

©2006 Mike Philippov All Rights Reserved

Mike Philippov (photo) is a solo musician and guitar instructor. He is a student at Indiana University studying music theory and music composition. At present Mike is also studying virtuoso guitar playing, and music composition with world renowned virtuoso Tom Hess.

He has taken lessons in advanced guitar technique with world famous teacher and recording artist Ney Mello. Currently Mike is working on a CD that is planned to be released in 2007. Mike also teaches electric guitar in Bloomington Indiana and is working on instructional beginner course for guitarists with Tom Hess.

Visit Mike's websites:

mikephilippov.com

myspace.com/grimthesweeper

enigmatheband.com

Comments

[xtremepunk0024]

I like

[Scourge441]

Brilliant.

[rider-in-black]

well if you want to be a dr or a pilot or anything you do require certain skills or talents to do so dont forget intellegence is a talent by some standards cause not everyone can be a dr cause they dont have the required brain capacity to retain all the nessicary knowledge so there is a tad bit of natural born "talent" involved in almost any successful profession

[dethwish/\^^/\]

leme b the first to say good column well said and this answers alot of questions

[saves515]

so you believe that no one is more naturally skilled at anything than another at birth? thats how i would define talent. It seems pretty obvious that some people are more athletic than others, and some have a skill for drawing without having any training. I can not draw for my life so when i see someone who can i think they must have a talent that i dont have if we both have equal amounts of training.

[RS-GUITARIST]

"All it really takes to do anything in this world is a bit of patience and a lot of hard work. You do those things, and nothing can stop you"

Thats what I always say.

[Welsh Guitar]

thanks for making me feel better about myself lol

[yawn]

Meh, I disagree.

I've tried for two years to hone the physical aspects of my instrumental skills, but to no avail.

I can compose, sure, but I can't play guitar that well, regardless of how much I practice the mechanics of it all.

[saves515]

ignore last post i missed the paragraph where you address my issue. I still have issues with the article, but i give it a 10 for a new point of view

[burning_feather]

YOu can't make talent, you have it from birth (genes), it wouldn't be called talent otherwise.

[Thor's Hammeron]

Very encouraging and I particulary liked the way you used quote by Mozart just to drive your point across. This makes me want to go practice guitar instead of being on the computer.

[Neon Knight]

I dont belive in natural talent, it dosent exist, all that exists is drive and perfect pitch, your not born to play guitar.

[Ledhead82048]

Neon Knight wrote:

I dont belive in natural talent, it dosent exist, all that exists is drive and perfect pitch, your not born to play guitar.

agreed

[slash_620]

I don't believe in inherent talent.

But i do believe that the way our individual minds work often hinders the music making progress. Like, i'm a pessimistic person, i became this way through the thigns that happen to me in my non musical life. This pessimism affects my creative side because i'm always stuggling to believe that there's anything i can write that hasn't been written before. I see locked doors instead of oepn ones, it's a charcter trait i can't change.

[##_Guitar-newb]

Thor's Hammeron wrote:

Very encouraging and I particulary liked the way you used quote by Mozart just to drive your point across. This makes me want to go practice guitar instead of being on the computer.

thats gotta be the best reply that this guy could possibly hear Nice article dude.

[pottsy]

talent is not excuse for not working hard

[leggomyeggo256]

talent is a natural aptitude at something. Some people are natural athletes, as one person said, while others are natural mathematicians. Others still simple have a knack for music that is greater than others. If one puts in enough work, they can become on par with someone who has more natural talent but does not work as hard. For example, if someone has small hands and lacks fine motor skills, they do not have as much talent as someone with larger hands and more coordination.

You have to admit that sometimes when someone picks up a guitar for the first time, they are going to get things much faster than other people. They will progress faster without spending more time practicing. This is a result of their natural talent, or knack at guitar. It exists. It is not the end-all be-all, though.

[el_nugos]

i agree, natural talent is not an essential aspect of success. its the work n commitment u put into it.
sum people may take to it quicker than others, but it doesnt mean they will b successful first, they cud end up bein shit.

[ibanezsc420]

Mozart's father wrote the first book on how to teach someone to play violin. Mozart wasn't a prodigy. He was good at a young age because he had a good teacher and he worked his ass off

[GrungePb]

i couldnt agree with this article more,

everytime im with someone and we watch some great guitarist do there signature solo and the person im with says something about that person being "gifted" i turn and look them in the eye and say "O really? ask that guitarists parents if there kid is gifted, cause last time I checked practicing 6 hours a day is not a gift, dropping out of highschool to practice 15 hours a day is not a gift. Ask that guitarist if he thought he was gifted when he sat in his room playing scales and songs and struggling to play a G chord if hes gifted."

[The_Man_IV]

I agree

It is true that most guitarist out there struggle with this and are put down by that very small word "Talent" -

[Mongoose87]

Ibelieve in natural talent, but as someone who had no musical aptitude before 1.5 years ago, I believe that one can overcome a lacf of talent with drive and desire.

[lordhuebi]

i agree with your article, but it's nothin' new at all

[kiely]

Music is in exsistance to be discovered; a great piece of music is not "made" by a musician, it is discovered.
A talented person I would describe as someone who can find music most efficiently and easily discern what sounds good and what does not fit.
Ability is not talent, but the appreciation of ability is a different thing altogether. DragonForce aren't appreciated for being talented musicians, but as extremely capable musicians who try to throw as much technical expertise into everything they do.

There may be no such definition of talent in the sense that theres some gene dormant in everyone with a set "amount" of talent, but you are at least born and raised with a degree of intelligence.
It's accepted that most people can learn to be a great musician. Smarter people, though, will learn more effectively and in my eyes are more capable of figuring out better practice methods and identifying weaknesses + strengths in themselves; they are naturallyskilled in self progression.
That's not talent, genuinely you just have to be doing the right things at the right time to be deemed talented.

[Sean-Man]

rider-in-black wrote:

well if you want to be a dr or a pilot or anything you do require certain skills or talents to do so dont forget intellegence is a talent by some standards cause not everyone can be a dr cause they dont have the required brain capacity to retain all the nessicary knowledge so there is a tad bit of natural born "talent" involved in almost any successful profession

unless your retarded, you can do what ever you want

[Slash·Slash]

I do beleive in natural talent but it is very possible to become a great musician with out it...I'll bet slash and eddie never had any natural talent

[patmann3]

i agree with above.
great artical dude!!

[Hammett5]

That was cool. I believe talent is something like instinct for musician ship. Like other people catch on faster.. you know. Like you and your buddy both play guitar.. he happens to learn faster than you and picks it up quickly. Does that mean he has talent? No.. It just means he has instincts.. he can just pick up most things in life fast and that is some peoples talents.. but that doesn't mean you suck at guitar or whatever you are doing just because you dont get it "RIGHT AWAY" stick with anything and you can make it be perfect.

[armitage_cake]

I totally agree with this article but I can still write a catchier tune than any of that stuff on your myspace.

[armitage_cake]

oops sorry 10/10

[spunkeymonkey36]

I don't think the word should be talent, but more like imagination, especially when talking about music as it is an artform. Research most musicians and most have artistic families or backgrounds. Slash for example, his mum designed costumes for Bowie and his Dad designed CD/Record sleeves, and it takes imagination to do both. I wonder where slash would be if he had no imagination? He wouldn't be able to perform awesome solos. Anyway you get the point, nice article keep posting them in!

[spunkeymonkey36]

And playing guitar for half your life helps as well. Once you know literally every single note all it takes is imagination. Another theory is that talent grows the more you progress with your instrument.

[Kidzelda]

saves515 wrote:

so you believe that no one is more naturally skilled at anything than another at birth? thats how i would define talent. It seems pretty obvious that some people are more athletic than others, and some have a skill for drawing without having any training. I can not draw for my life so when i see someone who can i think they must have a talent that i dont have if we both have equal amounts of training.

He never said that talent is nonexistent ("I'm not trying to state that there is no such thing as natural talent. It does exist and it does help."), just that it isn't necessary to be a successful musician.

[sg-knight]

ye ok nice article, nicely written with good points, but absolutely nothing in here that hasnt been said before by someone.
i think natural talent does help to get you to a certain level, and after that you need work to get off this plateau, so to speak.

[victimized124]

yeah i agree to some extent, but i think some people are "born" with certain traits that make guitar easier(coordination, etc.)

Nice Article there, it makes a lot of sense.

[Kristofer Dahl]

Man I couldn't agree more. The word "talent" should be taken away.

[black_sabbath85]

Well, lets say you give a gutiar to two 10 year olds, there is a chance that one of them will learn quicker than the other, given that they practise exactly the same hours and the same material. The kid who learns quicker has more guitar talent than the other kid, who might have more talent in something else, such as drawing.
Thats one way of looking at "talent".

[Roybordom]

dude, you are genious.

[sumfears]

Great lesson-ish

Inspiring!

[[Creative Name]]

Deny it or not talent does exist. But it will only get you so far...

[FunKRawK]

You lost me when you told me anyone who studys hard enough can create deep and meaningful music , WRONG, if any joker who worked hard neough can do it please explain to me why current music sucks many of those artists work their buts off to get where they are and most of their stuff is garbage.

[Brookaroo]

please explain to me why current music sucks

because, many bands out there do spend a lot of time and stuff practicing but some are not as creative as others or they would rather think about how much fame,money,glory etc. they would have after making the song, so they rush through it and get it over with instead of taking all of their thoughts and ideas into their guitar. therefore it sounds rushed through,oversound produced, or just not as much creativity put into it.
keep in mind that people can only teach so much knowledge but they cannot teach intelligence.

and about the teachers,
ive seen that many teahers out there do not teach much technique or music theory anymore or how to apply creativity with your technique. i have always wondered how to do that, but yet, there is still no answer.

[maddd0g]

FunKRawK wrote:

You lost me when you told me anyone who studys hard enough can create deep and meaningful music , WRONG, if any joker who worked hard neough can do it please explain to me why current music sucks many of those artists work their buts off to get where they are and most of their stuff is garbage.

How come people are constantly bashing todays music?
If you would get your head out of your ass, and stop being such an elitist, you might be able to enjoy it, and if you cant, just shut your face. I'm tired of people saying this same comment over and over again.

Its not going to change.

[maddd0g]

And, on topic.

I think its rediculous when people get held back by things like talent, I for one never even thought of talent, or i'm not good enough to play guitar, or even got frustrated with the whole thing. I worked at a pace I was comfortable with, and I think it sucks when I play guitar around kids who arnt very good, and they get discouraged. I usually try to get them involved and give them pointers or something, one more good musician, is one more person to jam with.

[Voodoo_Chile42]

Well, this is true to some degree, but don't dismiss talent so easily. People can be inclined to certain things. We have to deal with the fact that no matter how hard we work, none of us will ever be Shakespeare or Mozart. Some people just see the world in a fundamentally different way. This exists outside of artistic fields. People (take, for instance, Einstein) have changed the world in ways unimaginable to most of us. That doesn't mean that they don't have to work extremely hard to take advantage of their abilities, but you can't pretend that talent doesn't exist.

[FunKRawK]

i do enjoy it man there are some bands i really like alot=) but the majority of music blows, the world has changed alot in the past 5 years and music will keep changing but i don't think the writer of this article is making a fair statement at all

[Anarion614]

maddd0g wrote:

one more good musician is one more person to jam with.

amen.

[Bwandon:)]

my friend has been playing for years and he tells me that he has reached his limitation on his guitaring skills. Then he tells me that i can go much much much farther than he can. He also says that he cant make his fingers do what I show him. Explain this

[Kenkthulhu]

I don't believe in talent. Here's why...
When I was a kid I learned piano - my parents told me I had a natural talent, something I was born with. And since I was born with it, then it was genetic. They backed this up by telling me about a long list of people in my ancestry who were also "musical". My hands had longish fingers, so "naturally" I was going to be good at piano. I believed it all, and thought I had a talent.
As years went by I played less, and when (if) I did, I usually played the same same, old tunes.
Now, for the last 20 years I always dreamed of playing guitar - and I always thought guitar players had to have a talent - piano players (like me) had a "piano talent", guitar players had a "guitar talent" and so on - and I was always a little scared of trying to play guitar because I didn't have the talent for it. And the guitar seems so strange - piano seems easy because keys are all laid out in a straight line, and your hands and fingers are pretty much flat and don't move around much. Guitar's have strings all over the place, and who knows how many frets, and your fingers have to contort into different shapes and two hands have to do completely different and alien things to make even the simplest of sounds. There was no way I was even going to try guitar - and I was sad about it.
Maybe two years ago I had a quick course in acoustic guitar because my nieces and nephew were learning, and I thought it would be cool. Then I bought my first electric - and soon I was starting to get decent sounds out of it -- sounds that were close to my guitar idols. And then I bought another, better guitar and my world opened up.
Now I believe that guitar playing is all about opportunity and dedication. Does the guitar player have the opportunity to learn? I don't - I play as much as I can, but maybe I can get three hours playing a week. I know that's not enough to develop my skills as much as I could. And when I do have the opportunity, do I have the dedication to stick at it and get past the difficulties I am having with a certain musical piece? Do I get bored and distracted because I am not good enough?
Or do I reason that the great guitar players became great because they dedicated themselves to bettering their skills when they had the opportunity to do so?
I think that "talent" is another word for "lazy" - and just an excuse for not trying to improve my own ability.

[Ash on fires]

It was good, but i would have preferred a lesson on applying music theory writing music, or some other skill i can aquire, instead of an article that makes me feel good...

[Newgreen]

because it is music, and can't be compared to any other "occupation", none

[whocares09]

i look at it this way, you dont need to be a great guitarist to write good music, look at Nirvana, just as long as you play what you want and rip the music out of your soul, it should be good

[RyanEsta]

Great article

[U.P]

dude im pretty sure your practicing wrong

yawn wrote:

Meh, I disagree.

I've tried for two years to hone the physical aspects of my instrumental skills, but to no avail.

I can compose, sure, but I can't play guitar that well, regardless of how much I practice the mechanics of it all.

[Klayy]

talent is how your body and mentality is built. That makes you an easy or impossible learner. If someone doesnt have the patience to practice, doesnt have musical ear (odnt tell me that doesnt exist) and he has very slow fingers, he will not be such a great guitarist...

But I do agree, that you dont need to give up just because you need to work harder to achieve the same thing.

sometimes I see talent as an excuse, like "Hes better, but he has talent, what can I do"

Checked

[gibson sg!]

talent is not sumthin ur born with because for e.g no one is born to play the guitar because it is not natural to play guitar it is sumthin u learn

[inXP]

gibson sg! wrote:

talent is not sumthin ur born with because for e.g no one is born to play the guitar because it is not natural to play guitar it is sumthin u learn

Some people do have talent. Are you saying that Beethoven(pardon the spelling) and Mozart had to acquire their skills? There are also people who pick up a guitar for the first time and can figure out how to pick a song within the first 10 minutes. Last year at school they tried to teach us how to play guitar. Some people picked it up easily, but there were also the musical speds who couldn't get anything done the entire quarter of the year.

[trueguitarhero]

great article. thanks. it made me feel better about trying to learn to play.

[ShaDoW0lf]

I see it this way: no-one is born specifically made to play some awesome solo on guitar. We are all born unique, but not THAT unique. The people who can work out their 1st song in 10 minutes, you'll find, do something which has aided this, such as playing piano (finger training and the understanding of notes comes with this) or do some sort of finger-orientated exercise/sport, improving hand-eye coordination and finger speed (challenging the "slow hand" concept here. ) Others can be on par with these people after a lot of hard work, because they have to make up for the fact that the "talented" person has the benefit of a past which added to this pre-guitar understanding. As for "musical ear," lock a child in a room for his entire life, then hand him a guitar, and we'll see if this "musical ear" is born in him, or if it's the result of his experience with music, over the radio or cds etc.

[deathbyungabung]

I agree totally, as with anything the more time you invest the more you'll get out of it. Great column!!

[jcs5234]

i dont agree with this...you cannot compare musical ability to being a doctor or a pilot mainly because creativity is a different part of the brain than these types of skills

[Guitargod12345]

Talent is having the ability to improve quickly in a certain skill faster than a normal person can and your determination to improve. You can be born with something that sets you appart from all other guitarists, except you first have to learn to play guitar. People such as Yngwie Malmsteen or Randy Rhoads have this certain thing that sets them appart from other guitarists.
The guy who wrote this is insane, just 'cause you practice 4 hours or more a day for years at something doesn't mean you'll get better. It all has to do with you, not your practice. What this guy compares music to is something like being a doctor, there are bad doctors. And their are few who actually do their jobs with good results. This guy does not have enough anything that convinces me to beleive this. Some people are able to improve better than others. The best musicians period have a certain ear towards real music that is different than other people's.

[DString]

This is a very nice article, and it has tickled the fancy of many UG members. Talent is sometimes confused with ability. Ability is innate to all, talent comes to those who develope their ability. NO matter what is for music, science, or medicine...etc. I have a friend who was a C- student from gramar to college. Today he is a Doctor making more money than I, and I was a better student. What he did was develop ability he had through hard work and painful sacrifice, into becoming a doctor. Wilma Rudolf was crippled at birth, was told she would never walk, but once she achieved the ability to walk, she developed the ability to run and became the world's fastest women at that time. Micheal Jordon at age 5 could not dunk on an 10ft rim, he had to develop the ability to do such.
To all the folks out there playing the guitar newbie or pro, I say keep on pluck'in. And don't let anyone tell you you don't have the "talent" for anything, tell them you are developing your ability to play better, and then tell them to bite your ASS, in such a way that they actually look forward to it...I think they call that diplomacy.

[DR.Funkenstein]

all up to your self where do you wanna go? do you whant to be a awesome guitar player well its all up to you how far you whant to take it !

Godspeed.God bless you

[*tHe UsEd182*]

this is exactly what i think, im a bass player and i no that anything i really want to play i can play, if i have the paitence and determination and i come from a family that has no musical talent whatsoever so i dont have the natural talent to play bass, just determination.

Dude this artical is awesome and really inspiring =)

[Jimmy_Page99]

wow very nice dude. Made my day a whole lot better .

[blinnk16]

slash_620 wrote:

I don't believe in inherent talent.

But i do believe that the way our individual minds work often hinders the music making progress. Like, i'm a pessimistic person, i became this way through the thigns that happen to me in my non musical life. This pessimism affects my creative side because i'm always stuggling to believe that there's anything i can write that hasn't been written before. I see locked doors instead of oepn ones, it's a charcter trait i can't change.

Well said.

[StyxandStones]

thanks alot dude. i needed that alot

[gunsnzeppelin09]

Natural talent is bullshit. Its just a word thrown around by lazy people who don't put in the time that others do. When somebody says wow they have natural talent, what they're really saying is that wow that guy actually put the time in to learn that theory and those chops. Guitar (like everything else) is what you make of it. Sorry is that came out motherish but its true. If u practice 6 hours a day your gonna be better than the guy who played smells like teen spirit for a half hour once a week on his squire.

[Bass Cat]

dude. so true. Talent is a word used by people who are too afraid or lazy to get off their ass and do something about it

[IlIk2plygUItAr]

It was a GOOD ARTICLE but you don't need to put EVERY OTHER WORD in CAPITOL LETTERS.

[astrocreep71]

I know I am the millionth person to reply, I couln't stand reading any more. I have a friend who doesn't have to do anything more than hear a song, he can play it on the guitar, piano is different story though. Something about the way they decided to tune instruments has something to do with it(minus his ear). I also have a friend who writes songs all day, they're put together well and could possibly fly, but the songs also kinda suck. These guys are young though so in 2 years they'll be badass. As far as talent goes, though, I don't think that's the case. They are, as some stated earlier, very intellegent. They probably won't play after they turn 22 or so. Some people may say "What a waste",but they'll make plenty of money later. It all comes down to what you can do(you can have a nice job and still play what you consider your silly little songs), or if you have no obligations, and are in a decent band, you may get to see the country. Basically, don't knock up your chick haha

[Mental Hop]

People mentioned athletes for reasons why talent could play into real life situations but no one said anything about doctors or lawyers. Genes and talent are two different things. I agree with the article because it's something I've been thinking about a lot recently. It's not about being born with a gift. When people start out on guitar you suck and you get better over time. It doesn't matter about anything besides how much you put into it. If you're smart you'll understand how to jump the hurdles that come your way but that's not talent, that's common sense.

For instance. I've played guitar for seven years. For the first three I didn't really practice often amd didn't have any formal teaching and just did it as a side thing. Then I joined my first band and I needed to get on the ball so I got lessons and studied it more and worked on it almost everyday if not everyday. Now four years later people are genuinely impressed by what I can do on guitar. I don't mean to say this to sound like every other kid on this website who says, "Oh leik I totaly lurned how 2 play Eruptian in leik a dai" because I can't play Eruption but then again I don't care to learn it. But I met up with a new band last night, well Monday. The drummer was a very good musician. Bass player was pretty good too. We just started jamming entirely random songs that we hadn't planned on. Just riffing it. The drummer was especially impressed by all the genres I could cover and how good I was. Not because I was born with talent, but because I've been working my fingers to the bone for the last four years trying to become well rounded and good at my craft. Tonight I played along with a friend of mine and I realized how much I had grown since I first started and I know it's not because I'm talented. I sucked just as much as everyone else does when they first start. I agree with this article and disagree with this whole "talent" stigma people put on artists who they're impressed by. It's not talent, it's hard work. Talent is just one of those "oggie boggie" myths used to scare people from persuing something.

[doki]

see, its interesting. I'm a resonable guitar player, but i did it really to improve my fine motor skills. my motor skills meant i wouldnt have "talent", but i can do a fair bit on guitar. i am the perfect example of someone who stuck with it and got better

[Toms' anominous]

Talent is the same thing as skill and there are two types 1. natural talent- the talent your born with and
2. normal talent- talent you get through practising. so i dont really agree.

[inXP]

jcs5234 wrote:

i dont agree with this...you cannot compare musical ability to being a doctor or a pilot mainly because creativity is a different part of the brain than these types of skills

HAHAHA, right brain vs. left brain

[slash1965]

Ledhead82048 wrote:

Neon Knight wrote:

I dont belive in natural talent, it dosent exist, all that exists is drive and perfect pitch, your not born to play guitar.


agreed

agreed also

[LikwidNitro]

I do give you props for expressing your thoughts in such a fine way. But I have to say I disagree. Think about it this way:

Two people sit down, and have never played a guitar before in their life. One person plucks a string and plays around with the frets and gets a nice single string melody. The other person wonders, "How the Hell did you do that". The first person can simply look at the frets and based on how far apart they are, and how far down the neck they are, can guess at what pitch will come out next. (Same principle with a piano and the distance in keys). The second person doesnt see that relationship and moves onto reading tabs or just messing around with the frets (or keys) until he gets something that sounds "right". And hell what sounds right to him may not actually be right to ANYONE else.

That my friend is where talent comes in. Because in music there is no right or wrong answer. In math if you say 2+2=6 you are wrong. Hands down. In music theres are no set rules, of course there are guidelines though. Some people can be tought this, yes. Others can instinctively develop the skill others have to be tought. And to me thats what talent is. Its being able to do on instinct, what others have to be tought.

If wanted to become a DR, I learn math, medicine, anatomy, etc.. If I wanted to become a musician I learn scales, chords, tempo, meter, etc.

As a doctor I go oh this person is sick. Here is how I should treat this because I learned this already.

As a musician I go oh hey this person wants to hear good music. I cant just go "Oh hey I learned good music!". It doesn't fall under "oh just learn it over time and you are good at music". Its a lot more complex than that. You have to figure out how to tie things together how to play smoothly, what rhythm will get people moving or swaying or screaming. Whatever. And over time yes you do learn things like that but thats what talent IS. The ablility to learn such things and excute what you have learned better than anyone else is what talent is. Sure you can learn blues chords, but some people just may not have the imagination to give it the swing it needs or the soul it needs. Can they learn to do that over time? Yes. But compared to the other guy who can already do it the moment he learned those chords. Who would you say had more talent?

I do agree with you in the sense that good SKILL can come from hard work and practice. Talent on the other-hand is a whole different ball game.

(hope most of that makes sense haha)

[DM036]

I agree that practicing and acquiring the right knowledge are key factors in becoming good at an instrument. Think back to the very first musicians, the ones who essentially created music. Think of the pioneers that create a new genre of music. You aren't taught how to create, you develop that ability on your own. Having teachers help you along more or less just critique the skills you've developed on your own. Basically I do believe that some people are more talented than others, but this doesn't mean that someone who is not as talented can become just as good....it's all about being driven.

[Kristofer Dahl]

FunKRawK wrote:

You lost me when you told me anyone who studys hard enough can create deep and meaningful music , WRONG, if any joker who worked hard neough can do it please explain to me why current music sucks many of those artists work their buts off to get where they are and most of their stuff is garbage.

You answered the question yourself - they are working hard but haven't studied enough. On the other hand it might be that "current music sucks" is a bit to subjective to be used as an argument.

[HellBent1337]

I don't like this article, claiming that natural talent doesnt exist or something?... Some people can just pick up a guitar (Or anything else in life) and it feels good to them right from the start, they will learn it at a much faster pace than you ever will. Same goes with the people who go into the engineering, and science feilds.. some people just have the brain for that kind of stuff, others dont.

[EmancipatedSoul]

I disagree totally. The plain fact is that you are mixing up skill and talent. Skill is something you aquire, and that is what the article talks about, but it is NOT talent. Talent is something that you have (and yes you have to work on it) but its something totally different. When you have talent, you can do anything. When you have skill, you can also do everything, but skill has to be aquired.
Anyone can learn to DO art, but when it comes naturally, when you did not learn from anyone and you can DO art, that requires talent.
Take Jimmi Hendrix, that guy had talent, sure he had to work on it. But he had talent, it came to him naturally. I agree with Hellbent1337 up there ^. and with Likwid Nitro

[mya/shmoosh]

i definatley think talent is something you gain from practice and a love of what you do. people who like art or music and who really want to be good at it will practice a lot and therefore are talented also they may have confidence. if you play guitar and think your gonna be craop at it you will be. i dont mean to sound arrogant but i am talented at art and people think i have a natural talent, and i thought maybe i did have natural talent but then if i think back i remember i used to spend hours when i was little drawing because i enjoyed it i think liking the thing you do has a lot to do with things. I think people who watch great guitarists in metal bands they love all their life and who think guitar is really cool will be the ones to pick up a guitar and be great. Im crap at guitar but then that makes sense i dont just love guitar , i love music and im into bands like soad and tool who to be honest dont have amazing guitar work...i like linkin park for gods sake

[mya/shmoosh]

Kristofer Dahl wrote:

FunKRawK wrote:

You lost me when you told me anyone who studys hard enough can create deep and meaningful music , WRONG, if any joker who worked hard neough can do it please explain to me why current music sucks many of those artists work their buts off to get where they are and most of their stuff is garbage.


You answered the question yourself - they are working hard but haven't studied enough. On the other hand it might be that "current music sucks" is a bit to subjective to be used as an argument.

the reason a lot of modern music sucks is because a lot of artists dont work hard. they care more about their hair or eyemakeup

[aut0rg]

FunKRawK wrote:

You lost me when you told me anyone who studys hard enough can create deep and meaningful music , WRONG, if any joker who worked hard neough can do it please explain to me why current music sucks many of those artists work their buts off to get where they are and most of their stuff is garbage.

Firstly, your post is so irrelevant it's not even funny. Second, the reason why the majority of bands are where they are is because they're SIGNED. Labels sign music that sells. Labels know that signing bands that are very different from what's out is always a risk, a risk most labels don't care to take. Another part of it is that bands that are signed now are mostly a bunch of kids who practiced in their garage. They haven't studied fundamentals or composition. Finally, your statement, "current music sucks," is an opinion, not one which can be proven or disproven, which is the main reason your post is the farthest thing from relevant to the article.

[deathdemon]

burning_feather wrote:

YOu can't make talent, you have it from birth (genes), it wouldn't be called talent otherwise.

ok thats fake, my dads crap at guitar, but im loads better (sorry if im boasting)plus noone else in my family plays, ive just practised like and hour a day

[i bleed metal]

ok, this article didn't impress me...if you dont already know that it takes practice, research, and most importantly love for what you're doing, than you really aren't that serious about what you are doing(and you won't progress), especially playing the guitar.

[scarfacesuit]

well, actually some people can have a natural ability that they're born with to play guitar. i mean... not necessarily play guitar, but they might be born with the right finger strength and speed and hand coordination among other requirements needed to play guitar, but for the most part, the famous people on stage have played for years and worked with their instrument. the majority of people have to work hard to get good at any instrument, but some may have a natural inclination towards one instrument due to their various dexterity or strength assets that they are born with.

[selloutpunx]

people i know who play guitar well spend hours a day playing. people i know who drawn well spent their childhood drawing pictures while other kids were glued to a television. i don't believe in natural talent. i do believe certain people aren't capable of achieving certain things, but i also believe that it is a very small percentage of people.

[Mortigi Tempo]

natural talent isn't bullshit sorry to say it buts its like in everything you could practise soccer every day for 6 hours for the rest of your life but you'll never be as good as George Beast or Pele or whatever cause they are more talented than you, guitar is the same thing

sure spending a lot of time practising is important so toos loving music but some people have a talent for things and are better musicians than other people who have put in more time and effort

[Mortigi Tempo]

also natural talent doesnt mean you dont practise much you probably would just means youre naturally better at it it makes sense to you just like george best just saw a football and it made sense to him and he was the best player in the world for many years

[sosavpm]

GREAT! Really Good!

[theStallions]

This is encouraging, but to say that there's no such thing as natural talent is naive. If you've ever seen Good Will Hunting ( based off real life whiz Terrance Tao), you have seen that sometimes inherent ability overshadows anything hard work can ever do. Now that's math and this is Music but they're really both functions of the brain.

But that shouldn't discourage anybody because natural talent that great is RARE. And it doesn't stop you from being creative with your own music.

[vIsIbleNoIsE]

is this article insinuating that the mighty Mozart was not actually extremely talented, but had nothing better to do than to compose music??

i think that... talent is how we describe how the initial learning curve goes, and if it is not steep enough to turn you off, then you have the talent to get you started and your passion will bring you the rest of the way there

wherever there is

[LikwidNitro]

I decided to check back on this to see what others were saying and seem's people like the whole Mozart example, so I just wanted to add this.

Mozart composed his first symphony when he was four. Sure he had a great teacher. But how many four year olds do you know with that much attention span? Regardless of the teacher, and how hard he worked, you cannot at all teach originality and imagination. And that is exactly what it took for little wolfgang to write that symphony.

Another example. Bach was doing a performance for royalty. He was asked to play a fugue on organ. He did *keep in mind all he played during this was completely made up off the top of his head*, and it was fabulous. He was then asked to play a 2 part, 4 part and finally 6 part I believe fugue. In the end he flawlessly came through with playing them all masterfully. Can you imagine playing a 6 part fugure on one organ? Granted it was the double stack type organ but regardless. The imagination it takes to on the spot come up with a 6 part fugue is amazing. (for those that dont know a 6 part fugue is BASICALLY one written with 6 different voices (or melodies) all going at the same time). To get to that level, he had to have had talent. Sure he practiced and worked on that talent, to develop his skill level. But its beyong a doubt natural talent is needed.

Lastely. Beethoven lost his hearing, but lucky for him he had perfect pitch. Thats of course a skill one, with time, can learn but to perfect for most would ages. Atleast as well as Beethoven did. He also used to place his ear on the piano and strike a note to feel the vibrations to know which note was sounding. That's not something that is tought. You develop that ability on your own. And that is where natural talent comes in. Certain skills and practices require a talented individual.

I think, and it has been said, that you are confusing talent and skill. Sure with time anyone can learn a certain skill. But how well that skill is executed, or even how much time is taken to develop the skill all has to do, in my opinion, with talent.

Haha ok i'm done talking now.

[Sletvin]

The article is too long for it's point man, could have said it with 3 blocks instead of 2 pages Writing a convincing piece isn't all about how much you write, make it short and strong, works alot better.

CHecked. Keep it peaceful people.

[Orneblad]

This is so hard... I guess the will to learn is very important and if you did grow up with alot of music around you

[Dude...]

It is arguable but, think of it this way, as a child you may spend more times coloring etc causing an artistic intrest leading to a more artistic inclanation meaning. PRACTICE. While a person doing more finger movement orientated actions may be more oriented to typing or in this case guitar.

[Jose Rodriguez]

A great musician is not a person who has a Ph.D in music, but a person who knows how to make his soul speak in a language every1 can understand.

[Mr.Brightside]

ok art is definitely a natural talent. guitar not soo much but what if u have long really long skinny fingers or fat ones? i think its a matter of everyone learning at different speeds

[reverand_godles]

People who say that they don't have the talent don't know how to properly practice, look around on this site, it shows you how.

Anyways, nice article. There are factors that influence your abilities as a young child, but itss not being born with anything.

[WinslowBob]

You're all arguing over whether talent exists and is important....

Why don't you play your instruments and stop thinking about it. =)

[Stryker_66]

This article has a great message and Perserverance and Hard Work can reap a lot of rewards. As far as what "Good Music" means is too subjective to bring up in relavence to this article. Playing guitar does require dexterity and sure, someone born with better physical abilities MAY learn faster than someone who doesn't, but when you think about "Talent" just remember that it is a whole hybrid of elements that make up a whole. E.g. Someone may suck at the physical side of the instrument and works in that framework and comes out with a beautiful piece of music...again all subjective and too many variables. Some learn faster than others....blah blah, Great motivating article and I am convinced from my own learning, that you can learn to play well with effort

[Danielj]

The talent for doctors is intelligence. And a steady hand. Many eople cant become surgeons because they have a shakey hand. I don't agree with you at all. Another factor is the speed at which people learn. I have leart to play Michael Hedges songs a week asfter first hearing his name. A good ear is important. Many people with little natural talent can be fairly good guitarists, but it's the ones that rise above the rest that you know have talent.

[epiphonecoronet]

I think you are simpy not right...You need two things in my opinion: 1., Intelligence 2., Desire (you mentioned that)

But if you are still that opinion please proof it: I'd like to write songs like Pete Doherty - provide me with the right information so that I can write these songs - I have that desire - but not the intelligence to do so (call it talent) my email: [e-mail]

[Mental Hop]

Someone on here mentioned soccer. About if you practice six hours a day you'll never be as good as Pele. Well how do you think Pele got good at playing soccer? Sitting on his ass and watching Ren & Stimpy while eating Cheetos? No he got good by practicing. Music is a man made device and so you can't be naturally good at something that is naturally unnatural. The Good Will Hunting thing isn't a matter of talent. You can be born a natural genius, you can't be born a natural guitar player. You know why? Because thinking is natural, playing guitar isn't.

[dragonswings]

HellBent1337 wrote:

I don't like this article, claiming that natural talent doesnt exist or something?... Some people can just pick up a guitar (Or anything else in life) and it feels good to them right from the start, they will learn it at a much faster pace than you ever will. Same goes with the people who go into the engineering, and science feilds.. some people just have the brain for that kind of stuff, others dont.

he addressed that when he said that talent in the common sense is the "body's innate predisposition to do the right things instinctively".

If you put in enough work, I agree that anybody can be good, but if I put in the same amount of good practice time as some people at playing guitar, he would still be better. Overall, I agree though, anyone can be good if they practice enough and practice correctly.

[playfielder]

I think there is a certain very of talent in being a doctor. And if not talent, a level of intelligence.
I don't think anyone can just be a doctor or a musician.

[epiphonecoronet]

you have a talent for motivating people...but why did you delete my post asking for a proof?

[Lost_Rose]

a good article it speaks some truth you are not a good musician unless you know what you are doing!! look at slash he dropped out of school to LEARN the guitar and most other great guitarists had been playing for years and years before they made it!

[595Metallica595]

this article is right and wrong. i play guitar about 45 minutes to an hour a day. ive been playing for a year and know satriani, metallica, clapton and stuff. my friend who has been playing for 3 years and plays 3 hours a day and only knows powerchords. im probably more determined than him but i think he was blessed with untalent because he SUCKS... there definately is talent like how someone who has an ear where they can hear anything and play it the first time they hear it, first time they pick up a guitar. it helps to be creative and motivated but not everyone is born good at everything.

[595Metallica595]

oh and this is very strong for singing. some people sound like they have a dildo in their throat when they sing while others sound bad ass, james hetfield had no vocal lessons untill bob rock screwed his voice up. now if you dont have any natural talent will you be able to sing master of puppets just like james used to? nope. its talent and your born with it. people that say there isnt talent is because they probably suck really badly or are just ignorant. my sister took voice lessons for 5 years and she sounds terrible its because she has no tallent. for you untalented people, find something else to do because you probably are talented in something else

[xtopher_aaron]

Well, good article, but i'd say a certain level of talent helps a little.. but good stuff tho.. cheerios..

[marco-butler]

well put,oh and as well as talent,long fingers help to!!

[marco-butler]

well put!

[Metallicam]

maddd0g wrote:

FunKRawK wrote:

You lost me when you told me anyone who studys hard enough can create deep and meaningful music , WRONG, if any joker who worked hard neough can do it please explain to me why current music sucks many of those artists work their buts off to get where they are and most of their stuff is garbage.

How come people are constantly bashing todays music?
If you would get your head out of your ass, and stop being such an elitist, you might be able to enjoy it, and if you cant, just shut your face. I'm tired of people saying this same comment over and over again.

Its not going to change.

AGREED!!!!! On the topic, I agree 100% with the article. Alot of people are misreading the article as well. He's not saying there is no such thing as talent, he's just saying no one can be great without practice and determination. All those comparisons about 2 kids learning to play at the same time with the same amount of practice etc are flawed. It doesn't matter if both kids practice for 12 hours a day, if one kid is more driven, he will progress faster. "natural talent" is a phrase that's thrown around entirely too much and it demeans all the years of practice that an individual goes through to be great.

[avenged_lover06]

i feel soo good about my skills now
i do believe in environmental talent
ie. my dad and uncles (on dads and mums side) all play guiatr , so it was for that reason i love guitar.
i wasnt born a guitarest, i grew up with them
and thus got into it my self
i dont belive that you are born with talent but u are born with likes and silikes so if u dont like guitar your not going to be good at it
any ways time to ramble on

[avenged_lover06]

thats meant to be DISLIKES

[i<3myteli]

i agree for the most part. but i have friends who have been playing for way longer than i have. and i know for a fact that it takes some natural talent because ive been playing for only 2 years and ive composed way better music than my friends. BUT, i also sat in my room for 2 years and played and studied every emotion of mine and how to express it on guitar ( which is what u said ) and ive studied all types of music and had lots of teachers and greats. so how u say there is NO TALENT is not completely true. u just have to find ur talent if u have one, and apply ur DESIRE to compose. if u are completely driven to make good music than it should come. and one thing u forgot to say music is also a great feeling, a lot of my friends dont get the feeling i do when i play, which is the best feeling anyone could ask for. other than that TALENT does exist, but DESIRE will lead u to be a great musician.

[Bob_Doles_Pants]

Through all these articles, everyone has been talking about how you if you want to make good music, all you have to have is the desire to do so. But where does the desire come from? Someone who is, for example, an accountant, who has little creativity in their lives, did not conciously decide to live like that. All the concious decisions we make in our lives all come from the subconcious part of our mind. Everybondy has a different brain, just like everybody has a different body, so these subconcious desires differ from person.

Having the desire to create music comes from the subconcious mind and we have no control over that. I believe that desire is what most people would say is the "gift" or "talent". Someone who has the desire but does not have the physical skills to play a certain instrument will gain those skills through practice and hard work and will develop great skills. Most of the people on this fourum obiously have this desire for music to some degree because theyre on a website based on guiar playing and musicianship. People who dont have the subconcious desire to play music simply dont play and would not be on this site. They still live full and happy lives because thay dont have that desire, they have other desires and passions, like sport or books. A passion for music is not a gift or a talent, simply a subconcious desire which we feed to enrich our lives. Following our subconcious desires is what makes our lives whole. Musisianship is just one of many paths to a rich and enjoyable life.

[Bob_Doles_Pants]

Realy good article by the way. Two thumbs up

[clownlager]

Please explain.. I am one of four brothers, all players and all skilled. We all practised at the same time and place and all developed a love for playing,yet there is a gap between the least player and the best. (not an age gap). We are now in our late thirties( and early forties) and the gap is still there. We all still play and the gap has not decreased. Two out of four brothers have appttitude, two have a rare talent!!
P.S Being one of the brothers that does not have the talent, I found your commentary most encouraging. Keep it up.

[clownlager]

Just in case anyone wants to know.. the order of merit is 1,4,2,3 and I am number two brother.