My Mentality On Theory

Theory theory theory ... Tonality? What? Polymodal chromaticism? What?

As an amateur guitar teacher I always ask my students this question: "Do you want to learn music through playing guitar or do you want to learn to play guitar music?" The first means that it is within your interests to, in addition to learning guitar, gain knowledge of universal musical elements that are applicable to various western instruments. The second implies that you simply want to sound cool, emulate a style, and/or learn quickly. I call the first "Why" and the second "How." In actuality the Why encompasses the How (but for the sake of this paragraph I'm keeping them separate). So what's the difference? The Why method takes a lot more effort for both the student and the teacher, and also has the tendency to turn off those with no musical background. The How method yields faster, initially satisfying results but there is a definite limit to how much can be taught formally without simply going over songs (which can be done on your own, saving money).

Now, without thinking, pick "How" or "Why." If you went with your average-joe instinct, the easier, shorter method seems more desirable. In fact, that is completely natural... what's the point of the first method? The honest truth is, if you adhere strictly to the "How" you'll be able to get along just fine in the guitar world. You might even join a band and become superstars on Fuse (or what's left of MTV). Who doesn't want that?

...

I compare learning guitar without theory to a caveman who just discovered fire. He knows that when he rubs two rocks together they make sparks. However, he does not know the name "fire" or "spark". The caveman may be able to grasp the concept of heat by feeling it (and possibly getting burned), but he doesn't understand what heat is.

Why did I choose to learn theory? I didn't, as far as guitar goes. I began playing trumpet in 2nd grade, receiving private lessons until freshmen year in high school. When I picked up a guitar, it only seemed natural to apply the theory I already knew to guitar and learn some new things (especially switching from a monotonal to a polytonal instrument). So personally, I never had to ask myself the "How or Why?" question. With that said, my point of view on theory and musicianship is pretty biased...

As mentioned earlier, joining a rock band and clawing to fame is one of the options for the diligent, theory-illiterate guitarist. With that said, that is probably the only serious option for those kind of players (meaning besides being a hobbyist or a collector/dealer).

With an above average amount of theory, one can become a studio musician, a guitar teacher, or even an ensemble guitarist. Music on a higher level is extremely competitive. There is such thing as a musical resume, and it does take an extreme amount of work to get to a high position in this magical world of sounds. That's a common misconception parents and outsiders have as far as the nature of a musical career. The difficulties can even be seen through the mainstream bands most of UG hates. Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label. That in itself has little to do with theory- the point is that it is not an easy task to be hired for anything relating to music.

Learning music theory tips the scale in ones favor GREATLY. Guitar stores prefer to hire teachers that will be able to teach as many students as possible and keep the students coming. The likelihood of none of the pupils wanting to learn theory is slim. Often, it doesn't even come down to the type of students one receives. A certified guitar teacher, who took and passed a test that involved deep understanding of theory, will ALWAYS get a job before an unlicensed one. Studio musicians in decent studios are pretty much expected to be machines. They are handed scores and expected to be able to reproduce them flawlessly in both rhythm and style every time. The standards are rediculously high and to say "I don't know too much theory but I'm REALLY good, trust me" is simply not enough.

Honestly though, most of the readers are not planning to dive head first into the professional musical world. Even so, one can't escape theory forever. One of the great joys of playing music is jamming with other people. What if someone were to take charge of the jam and say "blues in B," expect everyone to improvise over a simple chord progression? That's theory (duh).

Nobody treads the road of guitar without coming across some theory, even the so called prodigies with superhuman abilities understand theory. What makes them so different is that they've taken theory and put it in their own terms. Some may have even built their own musical concepts (that may or may not already exist) from the ground up and therefore have a better understanding of them.

My personal view is that knowing theory is valuable in ways beyond simply getting a decent job - its a way to become a "complete" musician. Especially in the case of the guitar and piano where the ability to harmonize with oneself and build chords, it is a crime to the instrument to refuse to aquire more knowledge when available. All it comes down to is patience and resourcefulness. There plenty of books, especially from the Berklee Press that can be of great help to those who have a good reason not to receive private lessons. Guitarism (made up word) is a mental practice as well as a physical one. Building chops and muscle memory is only half the battle.

I guess I'm going to start a series of undetermined length called "My Mentality On: ____" This could be the only one (so it wouldn't actually be a series) or I could be writing on my death bed. Who knows? It's like writing improv. Feel free to contact me with ideas/feedback. I'll write about almost anything music related, within reason. My e-mail is [e-mail].

Stay Classy,
Ben (NotAJock2Day)

Comments

[scrambler_66]

Good thoughts. I can relate to many of those, especially the one about jamming. I hate when nobody comprehends what you're doing and it all falls apart.

[Riddler]

Bravo, that was a great read. You sound like a guy who knows how to teach music to other, possibly guitar-challenged individuals well. Looks like you have a good, broad, open outlook on music in general, and know the difference between a good guitarist and a good educated guitarist.

[mr.no_name]

Theory is very important for professional guitarists and musicians in general: rhythm, soloing, composing. It opens the doors for other people to apprieciate one's music. A composition can start on guitar, and that melody, chord progession or whatever can grow into an entire symphony. Theory opens doors of creativity.

[plectrum911]

No, actully theory is one of the most important things to have. How do you think sweeping, and arpeggios were created? by some guy thinking it sounded cool? What about scales and modes if theory doesnt help? Eventully you will run out of tricks of shredding without any theory behind your playing.

[BrettB]

That was an awesome article, and I can tell you would make/are a good teacher. Seems like(atleast for me) every guitarist comes to a point where he/she has to decide whether they want to step up and know "why" or stick with the "how" and probably drop off or never get any better. Now as for new guitarist with no musical background, most won't even have the capacity to do the "why" and that why I quit the first time, but now after I developed my skills, I went to a teacher with the want for "why".

[Lydian_Mode]

very good. and i agree completely with you. Without learning theory, you can become a decent guitarist, but theory really brings you up to the next level.

[ValascoDaGama]

pos69sum wrote:
Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

Shredding is boring, and doesn't help you to Play. Just learn enough to get by

[Phelious]

Good Read, The importance of theory cannot be stressed enough. Theory can be boring if you don't understand it, but once it all starts to click you will unlock limitless worlds of combinations and possibilities. Great article

[marcus00]

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

Hahaha.... Good one.

My teacher told me about a kid he was teaching once who said he didn't want to learn any theory, he wanted to do his own thing and be 'different' than anything that's ever been done.

I can't believe people have this mindset when they go into learning an instrument.

Mention this to any of your favorite 'shred' artists out there and they will laugh in your face. Why do you think guitar magazines are filled with guest lessons by Wylde, Hammett, Satrinani, etc...? You really think they "just shred"?

Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

[LastScion]

Techniques comes to you, t's only a matter of time. If you dont want to learn anythin about how music is made and theoric stuff, you'll find yourself very limited. Whatcha gonna do when you run out of shredo showoff tricks?

[vegetoe01]

Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

I think you will find Buckethead knows theory. Just that he likes his diminished/augmented/tri tone/evil sound.

[LeveLHeaD69]

some theory is a waste of time. alot of it is absolutely neccesary. i just like being able to be as creative as possible while writing songs, which i wouldnt be able to do without knowing some theory.

[sexy-man]

vegetoe01 :
Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?


I think you will find Buckethead knows theory. Just that he likes his diminished/augmented/tri tone/evil sound.


im sure you know exactly what that means, or did you just memorize what he said on his lesson on youtube?

[i<3myteli]

yea **** theory shreddin rules, i love it when my solos sound like a car crashing...axaxa...anybody who's serious about music, learn theory, get a teacher, theres always somebody who knows more than you...like the guy who wrote this article ^^. anyway i liked it personally and whoever likes 'shredding' should all take advice from this passage.

[-andrew-andrew-]

some mucisians may not know theory butt you shouldnt tell yourself you dont need to know it because they may not know all of the names of scales and modes and whatnot but im sure they know how all the sounds can fit together. theory is really not a waste of time it gives you a much greater understanding of music

[Night_Lights]

sexy-man wrote:

vegetoe01 :
Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?


I think you will find Buckethead knows theory. Just that he likes his diminished/augmented/tri tone/evil sound.


im sure you know exactly what that means, or did you just memorize what he said on his lesson on youtube?

why you asking, don't you know?

[rik231]

Those who cant understand it (or cant be arsed!) say its pointless, those who do bother to understand it live the dream! All top boys know there theory and many such as Kirk, zakk.....the list goes on are classicly trained, many rock guitarists agree classical is a bit poo! but just check out kirk, zakk etc and look what they can do. Id love to see any of you walk up to kirk hammet and say "all that theory stuff you learnt is crap!" hed just laugh and walk off"

[rik231]

Walking the walk is better than talkning the talk!

[rik231]

The good thing with understanding theory is understanding.

[afterlife24]

funny thing..
i made up my mind and changed from the "how" to the "why" just a few days ago ^^
anyway, keep up the good work and i'd like to read more of your work

[rik231]

This is my attitude to it all....why it works is a good tool to have, how it works/how you work it, is up to you. Do not get stuck inside the theory box, use it as a guide and a tool, dare to be different or you`ll end up playing jazz! lol

[DaveGilmour1189]

Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label.

but a7x hasn't flopped yet.

good article though

[rik231]

Heres an interesting point, think about the concept of chromatics, modes and keys, and you realise its not what you play its when you play it that matters.

[rik231]

You can shred your head off, but one wrong note is all it takes to spoil it! Shredding at 200bpm is good, shredding at 200bpm with skill and tonality is awesome if you get it bang on!

[godofthesunn]

Most importantly where can i find those theory books from berklee press...

[Arkane]

god damn, good article.. i have a lot of those berklee press books. go to amazon.com

[Arkane]

rik231 wrote:

Heres an interesting point, think about the concept of chromatics, modes and keys, and you realise its not what you play its when you play it that matters.

any jazz guitarist could tell you that

[ShaDoW0lf]

DaveGilmour1189 wrote:

Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label.

but a7x hasn't flopped yet.

good article though

The reason a7x hasn't flopped out yet is because Synyster.. and all of them, in fact, know their theory. Listen to any of their songs and its plain that they know WHY they do what they do, not just HOW.

Meh, whats wrong with playing Jazz? Jazz kicks ass. Shreading kicks ass. Theory kicks ass. Guitar kicks ass.

[Vantage]

marcus00 wrote:


Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

Paul Gilbert taught Buckethead!

XD

[rik231]

Well spotted Ark! lol doh! u know what i mean....lol

[rik231]

life kicks ass! sorry bout the jazz comment, people take things so literally! lol

[Shadoein]

sounds like ur one of those ppl that treats theory like its the be all and end all.....
i personally think some ppl r more ****ing ceative/outgoing ..w/e and just have a feel for the instrument and can just pick it up and play by ear and ****ing rock hard with limited theory ...
i think this has to do with whats happeening in your life what drugs ur on (if any ) etc
so while ur sitting there in ur room with ur nose in the books ill be on stage kkthnx

[rik231]

hope ur not talking bout me as you have it all wrong:-> lol , what i said was the exact opposite????? (read the threads again).

[rik231]

for Shadoein to read (again)!!!

sorry bout the jazz bit!! peeps

This is my attitude to it all....why it works is a good tool to have, how it works/how you work it, is up to you. Do not get stuck inside the theory box, use it as a guide and a tool, dare to be different or you`ll end up playing jazz! lol

[Shadoein]

""Do not get stuck inside the theory box, use it as a guide and a tool, dare to be different or you`ll end up playing jazz! lol""
lol its all good man

[rik231]

:-> lol

[guitarshark2099]

marcus00 wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.


Hahaha.... Good one.

My teacher told me about a kid he was teaching once who said he didn't want to learn any theory, he wanted to do his own thing and be 'different' than anything that's ever been done.

I can't believe people have this mindset when they go into learning an instrument.

Mention this to any of your favorite 'shred' artists out there and they will laugh in your face. Why do you think guitar magazines are filled with guest lessons by Wylde, Hammett, Satrinani, etc...? You really think they "just shred"?

Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

well i mean you didnt start really hearing and seeing hendrix until 66, so he had probably a good 10+ years on the guitar. he had to learned some sorts of theories like scales. he never admits it but i highly doubt he just sat around and play notes that somehow sounded good.

[rusrec00]

Vantage wrote:

Paul Gilbert taught Buckethead!

XD

ahhh I thought I noticed the similarities. Anyway my two cents:
(ignore and move on now if you know whats good for you)
I have played for years, and I believe the one thing that has held me back from being as good as I want to be has been my lack of theory. As I learn more and more my playing has evolved from guessing and hunting and pecking to "knowing" what to play and when....learn your theory guys

[rik231]

?

[rik231]

Heres a good tip for anyone who wants to see if theory really does work: learn a great sounding scale like the pentatonic and learn it in say 5 positions or whatever takes your fancy. Then go and read about modes (on this site for instance), after a day or so of pondering over it:-> go back to the guitar and see what happens!! Put on a backing track and experiment untill yours hands fall of!!! Add in some chromatics, slides, and lovely pinched harmonics and bobs your uncle.
This is a simple thing to do and will prove that theory (to a certain extent at least) will improve your playing 100%.

[rik231]

Dont get stuck in the box though!!! lol

[FretboardToAsh]

"Do you want to learn music through playing guitar or do you want to learn to play guitar music?"

some of my pupils are 8 or 9 year olds, if i ask m that they'll look at me as if i'm an alien. of course that's not new, but they still won't understand

[rockergirl1122]

Good article I guess, but a true prodigy is someone who can say "Take your theory and shove it" and sound twice as good as you.

Take Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page for example.
Neither had any knowlege of theory (although Page knew a couple of blues scales, naturally, however) but still managed to be absolutely mind-blowing.

I respect those who know theory and how to read music, but learning music and playing music take two different sides of the brain. Creative talent=right brain, the side of the brain that guitar genises (NATURAL, no lessons, no theory) use every day. The left side of the brain is used by orchestras, etc., but they are simply knowlegable; skilled; not talented.

[which ones pink]

Meh, whats wrong with playing Jazz? Jazz kicks aos. Shreading kicks ass. Theory kicks ass. Guitar kicks ass.

So true ^^
Yeah I agree this was an awesome article, I'm gonna go buy some theory books now (amazon.com was it?) lol

[Partyboy2k05]

rockergirl1122 wrote:

Good article I guess, but a true prodigy is someone who can say "Take your theory and shove it" and sound twice as good as you.

Take Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page for example.
Neither had any knowlege of theory (although Page knew a couple of blues scales, naturally, however) but still managed to be absolutely mind-blowing.

I respect those who know theory and how to read music, but learning music and playing music take two different sides of the brain. Creative talent=right brain, the side of the brain that guitar genises (NATURAL, no lessons, no theory) use every day. The left side of the brain is used by orchestras, etc., but they are simply knowlegable; skilled; not talented.

Actually Jimmy Page "knows" a ton of theory. He may have taught himself, but he knows how to do all that stuff. Jimi Hendrix knew theory, no doubt about that. The difference there is he didn't know the names of the scales and modes he was playing in. It's like learning how to speak. When we're young children we know how to talk but we don't know how to read. We could have learned a word that we didn't know and still say it perfectly, but if we were to see it on paper, we'd be like, wtf is that? That's how jimi hendrix was, but don't cheapen him to say he didn't "know" theory.

[marcus00]

well i mean you didnt start really hearing and seeing hendrix until 66, so he had probably a good 10+ years on the guitar. he had to learned some sorts of theories like scales. he never admits it but i highly doubt he just sat around and play notes that somehow sounded good.

Paul Gilbert taught Buckethead!

XD

I don't doubt that these guys practiced and learned from someone, but they definitely have a degree of natural talent that far exceeds most guitarists out there.

Satriani's trained a lot of incredible guitarists, Kirk Hammett, Steve Vai... Etc... But I have to say that they have natural abilities most guitarists could only imagine having.

[SL!!!]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

hahahahahahahaha.

hold on, i'm not done.


hahahahaahahahha.

you may be able to learn to play quickly, but you will suck. theory and technique is what makes great players. knowing what you're doing is a huge advantage.

[garden of grey]

vegetoe01 wrote:

Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

I think you will find Buckethead knows theory. Just that he likes his diminished/augmented/tri tone/evil sound.

+1

He knows a ridiculous amount of theory, actually

[santhony1987]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAhAhAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAhAhAhAHAHAHAH
AHAhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHA!.... HA! *cough*

Chill out with the theory viability debate a bit. Thanks.


Checked.

[geetarguy92]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

You sir. Are an idiot.
In the words of John Frusciante 'Not learning theory is like saying i don't want to communicate with people I'll just rub my penis all over their faces'.
Wise, wise man...

[mp3stalin]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

i HOPE you are being sarcastic... im pretty much a guitar newbie and i can already tell you how much theory helps.

[Serrana]

I've played around 7 years without learning any type of theory. Everytime I sit down to try it, I always end up giving up, or anything I learn doesn't stick. For me, I listen to enough music and have played enough I guess that I developed a strong enough ear for music, and I can solo to things well without knowing what chord progression it is, or what scale to use. I don't mean to brag here, I just want to say that music theory can be substituted by a good ear. However, I do realize it's usefulness in conveying musical expression to other musicians. If anything, think of it as a language you have to learn.

[redSG]

Great article; great read; great writing. I look forward to more material from you, Ben. As far as theory goes, you're right on. Without theory, we wouldn't have music, and we wouldn't have half-wit noobs playing mainstream rock to satisfy the musically-ignorant average joes and janes out there. There is pretty much an elusive scene going on behind mainstream rock that fuels the frontmen of music. That elusive scene is music theory and its faithful followers who know WHY they do what they do.

[rik231]

[quote+SERRANA]I just want to say that music theory can be substituted by a good ear][/quote]

Bo**ox!

p.s 7yrs is nothing, ask KIRK, ZAKK, VAN..they have all been playing for 20yrs+

The problem is that many peolple find it tricky to sit and read, then understand all that theory.....its hard.....so they give up. Not a good move.

[rik231]

If you know why you do things you know what you can do.

If you dont know why you do things you do what you do but dont know what you could do.

[rik231]

I keep reading SERRENA`S thread in disbelief!

" I can solo to things well without knowing what chord progression it is, or what scale to use. I don't mean to brag here"

That means, "i think im good and i think i know what im doing and im bragging"

[zakk_wylde4]

DaveGilmour1189 wrote:

but a7x hasn't flopped yet.

good article though

:o I thought there new album was good, they have great harmonizing riffs in it and some nice soloing too, but they didn't actually play that? Are you really serious about that? That would be a total letdown...

[The Maverick]

I've been playing for about 3 months and I've started learning a few pentatonic scales in the last few days and i've already noticed an increase in both my technique and my understand of what I'm doing. I'm definately going to continue to learn about theory, but i'm going to say that knowing How and getting aquainted with my guitar, to an extent has helped me a lot in the sense that i'm able to properly interpret theory. Definately worth the read.

Peace

[Godbe]

Great article, I like the idea of a series. I've started to get more into theory but most of it I just have to work out for myself because I can never get what I'm looking for usually.

[DaveDaThrasha]

theory is a great thing to know, i took classes on it in highschool, and taught myself after that, but to be honest, when your playing with your band, Rock N Roll, should be about just that, Rock N Roll, raw emotion. it shouldnt be about sitting down, book in the face, thinking, what scale should i play here, or what inversion of this chord should i play? because quite frankly, i believe a true guitar hero isnt the tool who plays a Million Beats a Minute and doesnt miss a note, nobody likes that guy, cuz he makes the rest of us feel like crap. the real guitar hero is the guy that picks up his guitar, and expresses an emotion through sound, so that even people who dont play, know just what hes feeling solely from those few well placed, well bent notes. Use theory as a guide, know enough so that it is always in the back of your head. but do not ever sacrifice the Soul of Rock and Roll to be a Shredaholic theory know-it-all.

[Under_The_Oath]

Good article, but does anyone know how I could teach myself theory? I've been meaning to do it for a while, I just can't find anything to help.

[PellucidPenguin]

Some people may have good enough music to jam along with something and have fun. but if your trying to lead a band, or really just be in a decent band, you need to know alot. Unfortunately, to be good at guitar, you have to put work in it. I myself love theory and learning new things. I also do teach myself some theory too, like constructing chords,I can just sit and construct new (to me) chords and new chord forms. But to do that, you need to know some theory. Anyway, excellent article.

[coffeeguy9]

A good analogy I use to describe what music theory is is to compare playing an instrument to a new language. You can go online, ask a friend, or hear something on TV and say that phrase back, and you might get a rather large vocabulary in this new language, and fool others into thinking you speak that language, only you can't speak it fluently and don't really know what your saying. And if you get really good in the language, you can express yourself a lot better, eh? But don't get too cocky, overstudy, learn a huge vocabulary with huge words and perfect complicated grammar, cause you'll just seem like a dick.

[zeppelinpage4]

Does reading notes and working out chords form those notes count as theory? Sorry i'm a noob...

[coffeeguy9]

^Yes, very much so.

[rik231]

COFFEEGUY9 : overstudy, learn a huge vocabulary with huge words and perfect complicated grammar, cause you'll just seem like a dick.

However, if you understand those complicated words you`ll be one step ahead of those that do not. Those that do not understand will use there limited vocabulary and call you a `dick`, thats there loss.....

[ihavnofingrprnt]

DaveGilmour1189 wrote:

Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label.


but a7x hasn't flopped yet.

good article though

dude theres no studio musicians in there exept sys dad he actually knows ALOT of theory.

i think theorys freaking important even if you say i play by feel and stuff you dont know it but you still are using theory. not knowing theory is like being a caveman trying to get that thought out and not being able to talk, you just keep throwing punches at the guy standing next to you until he realizes that hes on YOure rock.being able to think about what you want to say then going through youre vocabulary and saying it. anybody can hum something catchy its human nature theory takes it up one step and helps you to write it down and build upon it or come up with something better.

[ihavnofingrprnt]

and with that said ive been playing a year now and half that time i was a bumbling idiot learning other peoples songs wondering how they played up and making crappy second grade riffs with nothing to do with. being around other experienced musicians and learning major and minor scale and keys (mostly thanks to guitar pro). but once i learned how to put together proggresions and what notes fit where its so easy to put all that creativity in youre mind loose.

[mtlca1022]

Under_The_Oath :
Good article, but does anyone know how I could teach myself theory? I've been meaning to do it for a while, I just can't find anything to help.

try wholenote.com they have many articles and midi examples, but i will say teaching yourself theory is increadably boring, i was lucky cus i had it taught to me in highschool which actually led me to major in music. but if i had to teach myself i probably would have givin up

[xyqstyle]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

can i ask how u learn guitar then. by "pressing this note here and here" and then playing it all very fast to shred??? learning a scale is theory, learning a chord is theory. how can u say theory is not impt?? what's more is that the attitude of "learning enough to get by" basically sucks because you're not gonna get anywhere like that. what does "to get by" mean? learning new licks to keep your girlfriend happy? one new lick a week? how are you going to discover the potential of guitar like that?? or your own potential for that matter??

[fruit lover]

Man my teacher doesn't even know theory

[Fishticuffs]

vegetoe01 wrote:

Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

Buckethead definitely knows about theory. There are definite examples of him sticking to scales, building chords accordingly and so on. Buckethead also plays in many more styles then people realize, since many have only heard some of his more "evil sounding" stuff.

[CommodoreMF]

Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label.

but a7x hasn't flopped yet.

good article though


The reason a7x hasn't flopped out yet is because Synyster.. and all of them, in fact, know their theory. Listen to any of their songs and its plain that they know WHY they do what they do, not just HOW.

Meh, whats wrong with playing Jazz? Jazz kicks ass. Shreading kicks ass. Theory kicks ass. Guitar kicks ass





-----agreed

[Chris_Freeman]

does anyone know of othert sites for theory lessons?

[finn0]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

You can't "shred" without learning theory. Unless you just play random notes really fast but that will sound pretty bad. Then again you probably just play pentatonics fast and think you can "shred"

[genresrforposer]

DaveGilmour1189 wrote:

Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label.

whether or not they KNOW theory, blink green day offspring sum 41 etc. have all accumulated enough to last them a life time and have each been around for 5+ yrs or at least have former members still in successful projects.

So in terms of being great guitarists you have a point, but when it comes to being successful in the music biz there's about a million bands that prove you DON'T need theory.

Success in music is much more about how you entertain people and how they react to music so the highest priority is melodic hooks they can dance sing along to or mosh to. Shred's not popular because while amazing there's not much you can do but sit there and listen to a guy plucking a million notes an hour.

Not to say learning theory isn't a bad thing all, just that it takes a back seat to melodic hooks if your aiming to get popular.

I need to know scales so that I actually know what I'm soloing when I solo so I can write more crap. Anyone know the best way to learn scales for free?

[lisagabe]

I just wanna point sumthin out to yall, HENDRIX DID KNOW THEORY! He was taught by Buddy Guy, who knows a good bit of theory.....

[Spl!nTeRgu!tAr]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

wanna learn something funny?

all shredders shred in scales of some type (hence the notes they 'shred')and therefore if you actually would want to stand by that statement, you shouldnt be playing stringed instruments. guiar isnt a wild and gnarly pussy magnet instrument of death, its a one of the oldest past times of refined and organized music. if you knew what shreding was, i wouldnt have had to explain it

so there you go, now you look like a dumbass

good one

[genresrforposer]

Spl!nTeRgu!tAr wrote:

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.


wanna learn something funny?

all shredders shred in scales of some type (hence the notes they 'shred')and therefore if you actually would want to stand by that statement, you shouldnt be playing stringed instruments. guiar isnt a wild and gnarly pussy magnet instrument of death, its a one of the oldest past times of refined and organized music. if you knew what shreding was, i wouldnt have had to explain it

so there you go, now you look like a dumbass

good one

I agree with everything in that statement except that "guitar is NOT a wild and gnarly pussy magnet instrument".... yes it is!

[Quoteman]

lisagabe wrote:

I just wanna point sumthin out to yall, HENDRIX DID KNOW THEORY! He was taught by Buddy Guy, who knows a good bit of theory.....

THANK YOU lisagabe!!!
I must comment on Jimi's "Lack of musical knowledge" If you watch some licks of him at Woodstock an idiot could tell you that not only is he not sticking to the blues chromatic scale. But he's going out into scales like the Dorian and Fridgian (hope I spelt those right) and so on. Jimi wasn't a no theory hack. Sure his first album was very simplistic. But when you start listening to some of his last songs (and even some of his mid career songs) you see he was getting more and more complicated. We can only imagine where he would have went from there...

[Imp]

So, the whole article was to say, Learn Theory and youll play better.

Ok I guess I can dig that. The article was so well written that I kinda expected there to be more point! Rofl. Either way, good work, 9.9 of 10 (ill round up this once)

[glowskulls]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

i'm really sorry man, but have you ever seen alexi laiho improvising? he just pulls these ****ing immense scales and arpeggios from nowhere, and he can write uber radworthy riffs in less than a minute, and thats all because is knowledge of theory is ****ing huge.
it is proper important

[Chris Robinette]

Shadoein wrote:

sounds like ur one of those ppl that treats theory like its the be all and end all.....
i personally think some ppl r more ****ing ceative/outgoing ..w/e and just have a feel for the instrument and can just pick it up and play by ear and ****ing rock hard with limited theory ...
i think this has to do with whats happeening in your life what drugs ur on (if any ) etc
so while ur sitting there in ur room with ur nose in the books ill be on stage kkthnx

You forgot the bit where he joins on on stage four years after working his ass off on theory (while having fun with it, probably, yes, it is possible) and kicks your ass in a solo because he knows what modes to dive into based on the chord progression.

And whoever said that they can solo without having any knowledge what so ever of the chord progressions, I suggest you look into that. Sure, you can even do basic crap like look at a II-V-I progression and do blues minor over that, and it'll sound fine. But it'll sound a hell of a lot better when you start throwing in Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, so on and so forth. And even beyond that, knowing the progression tells you exactly what notes you want to concentrate on, which ones to hold, which ones to center your solo around.


Oh, and don't diss jazz. If you want to learn a hell of a lot about solos, listen to jazz artists. You can learn a hell of a lot about phrasing and such that'll do wonders for your playing.

[Gandalf-Grey]

So what exactly is music theory, where can i learn more about it?

[SL!!!]

rik231 wrote:

Dont get stuck in the box though!!! lol

actually, if you know theory, you can play more outside of the box. once you know the rules and how to make certain sounds and how everything harmonizes and works, you can break those rules and try new things, but in the end, certain things will sound good and certain things won't, so you're never just inventing a new sound, just using different rules and shizzzzz.

[SL!!!]

oh and just as a side note, Mozart and Beethoven, true prodigal geniuses, took theory.

[Fuzzbox91]

I also took trumpet before guitar and i know basic theory such as if someone says "blues in b" i will know what to do or if someone says play and adorian mode i will also know what to do. The thing i cant do is sight read. But i think that some people are better off without it. It al depends on the attitude. If you just want to be famous than you might end up like those one hit wonders. But there are some people with that attitude that learn great amounts of theory and when they are done learning something they just say "ok im done" and they end up being able to play really fast and good but they sound like robots. Theory is good if you want to become a good musician but if you want to be a complete musician i think you have to have a balance of both the "how" and "why" method.

[rhcpfan27]

great article. i love applying theory to playing the guitar, it makes everything so much easier.

[d_lord1]

rik231 wrote:

All top boys know there theory and many such as Kirk, zakk.....the list goes on are classicly trained, many rock guitarists agree classical is a bit poo!

I had classical guitar lessons for a while and got to rade 2 but I didnt really learn any theory at all (which was one reason i stopped, also i hated the teacher) i just learned a few scales and pieces which I can't even remember now.
I dont really know much theory at all and I am teaching myself (well, trying to) through all these lessons in magazines and on the internet.
Does anyone know a good way for me to learn keys, scales, modes, just theory in general? (especially keys, i dont have a clue about them :s)

[The way to hate]

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

lmfao. What a moron.

[The way to hate]

Shadoein wrote:

sounds like ur one of those ppl that treats theory like its the be all and end all.....
i personally think some ppl r more ****ing ceative/outgoing ..w/e and just have a feel for the instrument and can just pick it up and play by ear and ****ing rock hard with limited theory ...
i think this has to do with whats happeening in your life what drugs ur on (if any ) etc
so while ur sitting there in ur room with ur nose in the books ill be on stage kkthnx

You're a complete tool. I "study" theory I guess you can call it, and if you went on stage with me, you could sit there and wank in the minor pentatonic box (90% likely that is all that you know, and you'd probably be off key)while i play through a library of scales and modes following the progession.

You won't go anywhere EVER in music with your "ima rox starz!!!!" attitude. You child.

Pwnt.

[Firestrung]

Hmm, I think learning theory is definitly a good thing to do. However, a lot of people run into trouble when they let it dictate what they 'should' do in musical situations. I would say its a balancing act, learn from theory and let it inspire you, but know when to ignore it. It seems like most of the comments here are about shredding, and it's understandable to want to know about your modes and scales and different techniques, like tapping and sweeping.

I think what I'm most 'against' is the standardizing of music. Using theory to compose by saying, 'Well, since I'm going I IV I V, then I should go i, V, I, IV, I for the chorus.' Other examples would be saying, 'standard 12 bar blues in E', which all makes sense when you're doing covers or playing background music, but to progress in my own music, sometimes I have to force myself away from thinking 'What makes the most sense', and trying to think 'What makes this sound good'. It's not always the same answer. Sometimes it is, though.

I find theory, for my own personal use, is a good BUILDING tool. I look back on the skeleton of a song I started, and though I don't think about theory for the main parts, I find myself going back and then understanding what I did, and using my theory to build on those ideas, like adding new parts, instruments, etc.

In my very humble opinion, theory is a good thing, but always keep the mindset that it is what it is. A THEORY of what music is, a THEORY of how music works. There will always be ideas that don't fit into what might be taught to you in books or by teachers, but its good to learn the rules before you start to break them.

Keep rocking, everyone!

[flamecas]

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

I know more music theory than you, and I'm 12.

I bet I could kick your ass in a guitar duel.

[CapnKickass]

I'm planning to start taking lessons when i graduate and get a job I'll learn theory and how to play different styles, and make songs it will be sweet..

[metalhead987]

i like your thoughts on "how or why". it makes a lot of sense. i too started in band on a monotonal and moved onto bass and am slowly moving onto guitar. like you, adding theory came naturally to me and without question. to fully understand how to play and be a true musician, you need to learn theory. it may be the long way, but i pays off in the end.

[MyFuriousNipple]

"Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred."

That's a complete contradiction.

[k1ng_pooh]

i agree comletely, my other guitarist cannot jam because he is ignorant. well have something good going adn hell start strummer really ahrd randum strings and it pisses the hell out of me (guitarist) and our bassist

[killabob]

very true, it all makes sense. I need to learn more theory... i can play, and it sounds good a lot of the time, (to me anyway) but i need to know more really.
anyway, great articles dude (Y)

[DownNdirtyRockG]

really cool article! ive been playing for a year and a half and have only just started to look at thoery and i must admit i find all a bit daunting right now but for me its essential that i get my head round so as i can take the next step. any help and advice would be cool guys, thanx.

[DownNdirtyRockG]

yeah coolo article! ive been playing now for 1 an a half years and have only just looked at theory and at the minute it all seems very daunting and damn complicated but i know its a must if im to move on to the next step. so long as i can get my head round it. any advice or help would be cool guys, thanx

[maximoose666]

I totally agree, great article!

[Notoriousdoc]

ValascoDaGama wrote:

pos69sum wrote:
Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.
Shredding is boring, and doesn't help you to Play. Just learn enough to get by

Haha, brilliant!

I end up getting really wound up when my guitar playing peers don't understand even the most basic theory, it makes everything so much harder.

[wik3dspid3r]

all this talk of virtuso players and not one mention of God him self Stevie ray vaughn or john fursciantte

[Gregoric]

I tried to learn guitar with no theory knowledge for about 2 years n it was fine when I was just playing tablature and stuff but as soon as I got into a little band and was expected to write stuff I was completely screwed lol. I mean I don't know alot of theory still (slowly trying to teach meself) but knowing where your notes are on your fretboard and knowing how to put scales ontop of chords etc. and knowing your scales or whatever does help alot. I think you can still be creative even with theory knowledge, and u can always bend the rules ever so slightly

[poona]

M...Agreed. Learning theory helps you understand what you're doing. You don't need to shred to be a good musician, but learning theory can help you aquire more understanding of what you're actually playing, and also gives you knowledge of musical devices you might not have used before, giving you more creative space. I myself tried to put off theory, but now I'm working my way through the ABRSM music theory books, its been a pretty enjoyable experience actually.

That being said, you can't let theory take over your musical instinct, which is (in my opinion) the most important.

[poona]

Gregoric wrote:

I tried to learn guitar with no theory knowledge for about 2 years n it was fine when I was just playing tablature and stuff but as soon as I got into a little band and was expected to write stuff I was completely screwed lol. I mean I don't know alot of theory still (slowly trying to teach meself) but knowing where your notes are on your fretboard and knowing how to put scales ontop of chords etc. and knowing your scales or whatever does help alot. I think you can still be creative even with theory knowledge, and u can always bend the rules ever so slightly

The great thing about writing your own music is that you can make the rules, you don't need to follow what J.S Bach did or anything like that. I think when you make things 'fit' it takes away the creativity.

[SL!!!]

The way to hate wrote:

Shadoein wrote:

sounds like ur one of those ppl that treats theory like its the be all and end all.....
i personally think some ppl r more ****ing ceative/outgoing ..w/e and just have a feel for the instrument and can just pick it up and play by ear and ****ing rock hard with limited theory ...
i think this has to do with whats happeening in your life what drugs ur on (if any ) etc
so while ur sitting there in ur room with ur nose in the books ill be on stage kkthnx


You're a complete tool. I "study" theory I guess you can call it, and if you went on stage with me, you could sit there and wank in the minor pentatonic box (90% likely that is all that you know, and you'd probably be off key)while i play through a library of scales and modes following the progession.

You won't go anywhere EVER in music with your "ima rox starz!!!!" attitude. You child.

Pwnt.

hahaha. truth.

Checked...

[Wylde14]

DaveGilmour1189 wrote:

Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label.


but a7x hasn't flopped yet.

good article though

ive never heard of that band (which may prove my point, or i just dont listen to whichever music that is)

[garypalys]

Seems to me you need to learn how to play before you can understand theory... maybe I'm wrong

[Hammer_On]

I Believe its best for a Noob to start with a [u]few[u] tabs then learn minor pentatonic, one position at a time, and major scale, one position at a time. And learn how to form barre chords. This is what i ended up doing and Its been Very Beneficial. Its good to get acquainted with the fretboard FIRST, then start learning theory over time. after learning some theory you can play in alternate tunings for proficiently.

I taught myself everything about theory. its still and always will be ongoing but i've learned enough to play very well. If you want to teach yourself theory, then do this. First get a chart that will show where the notes are on the fretboard, provided your tuned standard, and the download the offline version of musictheory.net at http://www.musictheory.net/downloads.html.
this is been a lot of help.


Ethan out

[the little guy]

umm... i'd have to say theory is a good tool... but nothing goes against the love for the instrument if u have a good ear... i know a guy who doesn't even know what notes the open strings are and he can sit down and jam all night with the best of 'em... i mean i kinda suck at listening and playing... but i suck at theory more... so i can just hit and miss stuff... but i can improvise solos over just about any blues or rock scale... and i know no theory... so i guess its really a matter of the type of person u are... the thing that really gets me though is if you know too much theory you might end up composing what sounds good on a theory level but lose the feel and passion of composing music from the heart... but there's guys out there that write cool shit without even knowing any theory... hint hint Slayer... like i said it depends apon ... or is it upon... anyways the person
==little guy out

[pokku]

nice article..thanks dude..

[Hate Me]

Theory is a huge help in creating your own music. You may be able to emulate your favorite player by using tabs and playing out by ear but in the end you usually end up sounding exactly like that person. You can learn every Ozzy song ever and be able to play your ass off like Zakk or Randy but you will never understand how it works and so you just end up doing the exact same thing they do/did.

I took music theory in high school and it helped me put everything in perspective and guided me to want I wanted to create. One thing about theory that most people get trapped in is following all the "rules" of music theory and never breaking out of the box. And yes you will end up learning some theory that you will never need but what is it going to hurt?

I mean chances are I won't be using choral part writing that much but it didn't hurt me to learn it. (well almost didn't hurt ( )

[thedarkblues06]

ShaDoW0lf wrote:

DaveGilmour1189 wrote:

Ever notice how some bands you dislike suddenly disappear? Most likely it's because they couldn't perform on the road or even in the studio (which made the label turn to hiring studio musicians), causing them to be dropped from their label.

but a7x hasn't flopped yet.

good article though

The reason a7x hasn't flopped out yet is because Synyster.. and all of them, in fact, know their theory. Listen to any of their songs and its plain that they know WHY they do what they do, not just HOW.

Meh, whats wrong with playing Jazz? Jazz kicks ass. Shreading kicks ass. Theory kicks ass. Guitar kicks ass.

Hell yeah. I agree here. Theory rocks...but it's a long difficult road.

[soulflyV]

guitarshark2099 wrote:

marcus00 wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.


Hahaha.... Good one.

My teacher told me about a kid he was teaching once who said he didn't want to learn any theory, he wanted to do his own thing and be 'different' than anything that's ever been done.

I can't believe people have this mindset when they go into learning an instrument.

Mention this to any of your favorite 'shred' artists out there and they will laugh in your face. Why do you think guitar magazines are filled with guest lessons by Wylde, Hammett, Satrinani, etc...? You really think they "just shred"?

Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

well i mean you didnt start really hearing and seeing hendrix until 66, so he had probably a good 10+ years on the guitar. he had to learned some sorts of theories like scales. he never admits it but i highly doubt he just sat around and play notes that somehow sounded good.

and i dont think he ever will

checked..

[JBurner]

Yeah I like how people cite Hendrix as a player who don't know is theory... it makes perfect sense, just as long as you don't look at or listen to his music.

Another thing i'm enjoying is the hippie-ass theory vs. experession argument, or even theory vs. "the free spirit of rock n' roll!!(!)" argument... please, don't be a chode. For one thing, even the rediculously simple and expressionate is supported by theory, it doesn't mean complex or limiting, it means notes have distinct relations to each other.

Even if you were to randomly pluck notes in no specific order, rhythm, or time signature, it still would be supported by theory of some sort. And if you play around with notes, not really knowing what your doing until you get something you think sounds good, the end result will still be supported by theory. It's just that that if you "know" theory, you know exactly how to get what you weant, using what, in the least time consuming and efficient way possible, ultimately in the context of improv.

I thik the problem is, not just with guitar but really for any art form, is that people are ignorant and instead of being humble and learning it, they do the easy thing and wear their ignorance like a badge of honor. This is also how religion starts.
Maybe I'm just getting a little outta line but that's what I think at this hour

[Kunundrum]

MyFuriousNipple wrote:

"Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred."

That's a complete contradiction.

true. How will you shred if you don't have complete mastery of scales? You will just master the chromatic scale? Or you'll just copy someone else's song note per note? You do know that more often than not, shredders are improvising...

[GoldenTouch]

"Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred."

This guy wasn't even serious, so stop ****ing arguing with him....please

[Blade1096]

Just thought I would share a personal story on this topic. I played guitar for 20yrs. Self taught, locked in my bedroom, several hours a day bangin away to Randy Rhoad, EVH,....etc. I wish now that at an earlier age someone would have turned me on to theory. 2 years ago I joined my first band after all those years of playing. My leads were very average in my opinion..as were my chordal progressions and my songwriting. Then a friend turned me on to theory. And oh man, did the light bulb come on inside my brain. I am now twice the musician, lead player and songwriter that I ever was. The point of this story is, yeah play by feel and emotion, thats great. I did it for years. But, I promise ya theory is very very valuable and IT WILL make you a better player in my opinion. My advice to all you young players out there is do yourself a favor. Look into theory. I'd much rather hear someone say "Wow man what did u just do?" than "hey man that sounded jus like Zakk Wylde". Just my 2 cents. Have a great day.

[niguitars.com]

rik231 wrote:

This is my attitude to it all....why it works is a good tool to have, how it works/how you work it, is up to you. Do not get stuck inside the theory box, use it as a guide and a tool, dare to be different or you`ll end up playing jazz! lol

WTF jazz breaks more rules than most rock and metal put together

[amorebelladonna]

rik231 wrote:

This is my attitude to it all....why it works is a good tool to have, how it works/how you work it, is up to you. Do not get stuck inside the theory box, use it as a guide and a tool, dare to be different or you`ll end up playing jazz! lol

Jazz is one of the most inventive genres ever, not to mention difficult, you NEED to know theory if you want to be successful in the music world, and although hendrix didnt have a lot of theory, if you analyze his riffs, and his songs, it becomes increasingly evident that he had some understandy of theory. Learning peoples songs are great, but whats even better is to learn the chords, learn the mood and melody, and then with the knowledge you have in theory, throw your own mix into it, and make them your own. Peace

[Mcassidy42]

One of my friends dosn't know anything about theory, and it's pretty hard to have a fun time jaamming because of that, I'll write a simple metal powerchord riff, and he go's off on some type of wanky blues style of playing, i'm personnaly glad I have a novice understanding of this, and hope to learn more.

[yngwierawks92]

i can relate to some of that stuff especially what you said about the jammin w/ friends lol. but yeah this is a cool article ya should keep them coming

[eli_yates]

i tell you what pisses me off... after a few years of playing guitar i finally figured out how to solo well enough in the pentatonics to "get by". well, then i found out that most guitar "gods" actually use like 3 scales per solo... my mind was blown and now i feel hopeless lol... one because it was pentatonic and two because that the only scale i know... lol... damn my limited knowledge of scales!

[eli_yates]

the little guy wrote:

umm... i'd have to say theory is a good tool... but nothing goes against the love for the instrument if u have a good ear... i know a guy who doesn't even know what notes the open strings are and he can sit down and jam all night with the best of 'em... i mean i kinda suck at listening and playing... but i suck at theory more... so i can just hit and miss stuff... but i can improvise solos over just about any blues or rock scale... and i know no theory... so i guess its really a matter of the type of person u are... the thing that really gets me though is if you know too much theory you might end up composing what sounds good on a theory level but lose the feel and passion of composing music from the heart... but there's guys out there that write cool shit without even knowing any theory... hint hint Slayer... like i said it depends apon ... or is it upon... anyways the person
==little guy out

i watched a video once where kerry king said the name of the scale the key of the scale and what kind of chord he was using... but maybe he was just reading a cue card?

[Mekho]

true dat

[RevolverX]

I neglected theory until I had been playing for about a year and a half. I played the sax for years before playing guitar, so I had the basics anyway: keeping time, key signatures, etc. But I think everyone should learn some theory.

Not knowing theory limits what you can do - and that sucks. The point of playing an instrument is to be the best you can be. If you don't know theory, good luck playing jazz or fusion. Even advanced metal relies on time signature changes that demand some knowledge of theory. I challenge you to play Greg Howe's "Dance" without knowing about time sigs.

At the end of the day, theory isn't even that hard. Everything builds from very basic formulas, and there are tones of ways of approaching it. Personally, I subscribe to the Holdsworth school of visualizing entire scale shapes all over the neck, and forming chords out of that rather than playing static, cliched progressions.

It's funny, because at the end of the day, everyone knows some theory. Long-haired kids in guitar stores noodling in E Harmonic Minor, whether they are aware of it or not, are recognizing intervals central to that scale.

[jus235]

You could know all the theroy a conductor knows but if you can't apply the knowledge by jamming with people, or writing licks and chord progressions. All that knowledge is a waste. Theroy helps But Apply it, by experimenting, to perform at your full potential.

[Guitar_Poet]

marcus00 wrote:
But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

LOTS. i discover more and more, the more i listen to certain players. for instance, my favorite band is Dream Theater.... a band full of virtuosos. then i looked into Liquid Tension Experiment (side project..)... tony levin.. steve vai... joe satriani... martone... eric johnson... victor wooten... john mclaughlin... virgil donati.. james robinson... al di meola... steve morse... pace de lucia... alex lifeson... neil peart... billy sheehan... [if you're unaware, these are not all guitarists]... hmm the list goes on.

[Guitar_Poet]

paco* de lucia

[Guitar_Poet]

jus235 wrote:

You could know all the theroy a conductor knows but if you can't apply the knowledge by jamming with people, or writing licks and chord progressions. All that knowledge is a waste. Theroy helps But Apply it, by experimenting, to perform at your full potential.

yea, theory is a great help (i know a lot) but im still working on applying it... the application is the hard part! you can have major chops, and be insanely knowledgeable in the ways of music theory, but you need to practice applying the ideas or you wont really get anywhere. as for the article... yep. i think its more aimed toward people who are hesitant towards learning theory lol. =) good job though

[Guitar_Poet]

eli_yates wrote:

the little guy wrote:

umm... i'd have to say theory is a good tool... but nothing goes against the love for the instrument if u have a good ear... i know a guy who doesn't even know what notes the open strings are and he can sit down and jam all night with the best of 'em... i mean i kinda suck at listening and playing... but i suck at theory more... so i can just hit and miss stuff... but i can improvise solos over just about any blues or rock scale... and i know no theory... so i guess its really a matter of the type of person u are... the thing that really gets me though is if you know too much theory you might end up composing what sounds good on a theory level but lose the feel and passion of composing music from the heart... but there's guys out there that write cool shit without even knowing any theory... hint hint Slayer... like i said it depends apon ... or is it upon... anyways the person
==little guy out

i watched a video once where kerry king said the name of the scale the key of the scale and what kind of chord he was using... but maybe he was just reading a cue card?

lol on the kerry king thing comment.

as for the comment above... all the players i know who are actually good and can play all styles of music know their theory down pat... u cant tell me steve vai knows no theory lol... and damn does he have passion.

the way i see it is the better you are at applying the theory and whatnot, the better you are able to express yourself. the same goes for speaking.. the larger your vocabulary, the better you will be able to express yourself.

[carpo]

i'm about to be a real hippocrit but i cant help it. nothing amazes me more than how many people who talk so seriousley about guitar, have enough time to make bitchy comments about others posts. any decent person/guitarist who reads these ramblings can tell when someone is musically bluffing or quoting something from a magazine. stop hiding behind your ultimately anonymous computer chat, go practice instead and when you are hailed as the most 'emotional' 'natural' guitarist in the world then try and tell the rest of us that theory is 'boring' or 'supresses originality'. would all the nice people guitarists of any level join me in shaming DAVEDATHRASHA POS69SUM ROCKERGIRL SERRANA FRUITLOVER GENRESFORPOSER SHADOEIN THE LITTLE GUY for their unconvincing efforts to bring down standards and put people off theory. you are only fooling yourselves. and fruitlovr, you may find that your teacher does know theory afterall, its me! rant over, happy picking everyone.

Checked.

[Guitar_Poet]

carpo wrote:

i'm about to be a real hippocrit but i cant help it. nothing amazes me more than how many people who talk so seriousley about guitar, have enough time to make bitchy comments about others posts. any decent person/guitarist who reads these ramblings can tell when someone is musically bluffing or quoting something from a magazine. stop hiding behind your ultimately anonymous computer chat, go practice instead and when you are hailed as the most 'emotional' 'natural' guitarist in the world then try and tell the rest of us that theory is 'boring' or 'supresses originality'. would all the nice people guitarists of any level join me in shaming DAVEDATHRASHA POS69SUM ROCKERGIRL SERRANA FRUITLOVER GENRESFORPOSER SHADOEIN THE LITTLE GUY for their unconvincing efforts to bring down standards and put people off theory. you are only fooling yourselves. and fruitlovr, you may find that your teacher does know theory afterall, its me! rant over, happy picking everyone.

yay +1

[JBurner]

It's what i was tryin to say +2

[rusrec00]

HERE HERE! +1

[rusrec00]

garden of grey wrote:

vegetoe01 wrote:

Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

I think you will find Buckethead knows theory. Just that he likes his diminished/augmented/tri tone/evil sound.



+1

He knows a ridiculous amount of theory, actually

yup yup Bucket knows SIK theory

[limefan913]

I went about a year and a half knowing almost no theory, just a very limited about, and was mediocre at playing. Theory has helped me dramatically improve, and I don't mean playing at 100,000,000BPM. It helps express emotion. If you know what makes certain sounds, and what works together, you can effectively express the feelings you wish to convey.

However, working on technique and theory at the same time is a great great idea... if you can't hold your pick right, no amount of theory will make you better.

[Dr. Gonzo Slash]

Ok, Ive noticed that many people on here dont realise how many guitarists know theory. I think only a few percent Dont.
Hendrix: Of course he knows his scales, come on!
Slash: Cant read it, but he knows his scales!
Jimmy Page: HES A FREAKING SESSIOSN PLAYER!!! OF COURSE HE CAN READ IT AND KNOW IT!!!
Get the point?????!!!!!
***LEAR THEORY!!!*****

[Black Hole Sun]

The way to hate wrote:

Shadoein wrote:

sounds like ur one of those ppl that treats theory like its the be all and end all.....
i personally think some ppl r more ****ing ceative/outgoing ..w/e and just have a feel for the instrument and can just pick it up and play by ear and ****ing rock hard with limited theory ...
i think this has to do with whats happeening in your life what drugs ur on (if any ) etc
so while ur sitting there in ur room with ur nose in the books ill be on stage kkthnx


You're a complete tool. I "study" theory I guess you can call it, and if you went on stage with me, you could sit there and wank in the minor pentatonic box (90% likely that is all that you know, and you'd probably be off key)while i play through a library of scales and modes following the progession.

You won't go anywhere EVER in music with your "ima rox starz!!!!" attitude. You child.

Pwnt.

You can't saw pwnt to comment you made. That's just arrogant. You have to wait for someone else to come in and say it. I'm disappointed, defying the rules of pwnage like that.

flamecas wrote:
Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.

I know more music theory than you, and I'm 12.

I bet I could kick your ass in a guitar duel.

Yes, I'm sure you could boy who will never meet this person so can make claims with absolutely no foundations at all.


Anyway, I know theories important. I know a little (Major, Minor, Pentatonic, Phyrigian scales etc.) but not enough to consider myself a guitar legend, but I still wrote a reasonably good, if I may say so myself, album. I still need to learn more theory, because I still can't solo that well.

But there are people who don't know much theory and still excel.

Mikael Åkerfeldt said:
Completely self taught. I don't know shit when it comes to scales or chords...I make up my own chords and I wouldn't know what they're called. I just try to write stuff that I think sounds good, same with solos. I'm happy with my tone, but my technique isn't good at all I believe. I got the tone and the sense of rhythm so that's basically what I rely on most. I wouldn't mind taking a few lessons to get to the next level, but it's hard when you're lazy!

[Black Hole Sun]

P.S. I find it hilarious how a lot of you think it's so important to learn guitar theory, but seem to think learning English is useless.

[Black Hole Sun]

Sorry for the triple post. In my first post, "theories" should be "theory's"

[silentjealousy]

Theory is the most important part of learning music, too many people overlook it or get put off by it because its boring compared to learning metallica solo's (which btw is all pentatonic... see even that is filled with evil theory)

[gtr1960]

I teach guitar too. I don't give the little buggers a choice. lol. They get lessons out of the books (prefer Berklee, but also use Christopher Parkening, MelBay and Aaron Schreror(sp)). These kids wanna be able to play Avenge Sevenfold right out of the box. So I approach it a lot like you do ..

I teach them theory and the ability to read music(books), plus I tab out cool licks, and there favorites songs for em, so they can go to there friends and say hey look at what I learned, or what I can do.

If you teach them the books it not only develops their playing ability in incremental steps, theory is also explained and used in an incremental way. When they finish the last of all of the books they will have a pretty good understanding of music and theory. There was an earlier post about someone who was learning and got to grade 2 and quit ....shoulda kept going you eventually would have learned the theory.
If you finish just the Berklee book 1 you will know multiple chord chord forms, major scales up to the 4th positions and how to sight read plus added theory. If you continue on into book to your knowledge develops
even more to include knowledge of the whole neck plus
Jazz minor,Harmonic Minor,and many other scales.

So you see if you don't quit and stay with it you will develop your playing ability and knowledge of theory incrementally.

Problem is most players never stay with it long enough they get the blues scale down and a few of there favorite guitar players riffs and a little speed on em and now there rock stars.LOL By the way if you want to see someone "classically" trained see John Williams

[gtr1960]

I don't give my students a choice .. They learn from the books (usually Berklee, but I use Christopher Parkening and MelBay too). These books teach in incremental studies that teach key signatures, notes, rhythm,scales,chords and chord forms, and music and music sight reading techniques.

The problem is it's easier to train the fingers than the brain. I give my students at the same time, other things to work with, like their favorite songs, and cool guitar riffs (sweeps, and cool scales).

I believe you have about the same approach. Some of the students grab a hold of the theory and want more and some get a few chords down and scales and think they don't need any more.

As you stated if you want to work and I mean make money at your instrument. Learn not only music, but technique, and music theory. Right now there is a add
for a guitarist for a studio in my city ....sight reading a must, plus extensive musical knowledge.

Hendrix played a ton of blues with some jazz involved, and was well known in and around the club scene. Though maybe not formally trained at a school he studied music.

In reality we all are self taught because even though I can assign lessons and give out music knowledge it is up to each person to learn it and apply it . Some do , some don't.

[personon]

Theory is "where it's at" or you're "just fooling yourself and you don't believe it". Love this site, reviewers and of course, the tabs!! mas amore!

[asiandinky]

finn0 wrote:

pos69sum wrote:

Theory is boring, and doesn't help you to shred. Just learn enough to get by.


You can't "shred" without learning theory. Unless you just play random notes really fast but that will sound pretty bad. Then again you probably just play pentatonics fast and think you can "shred"

aren't pentatonic scales part of theory as well?

[LPGuy04]

I 100% agree. I'm 14 years old, and I used the "How" method for about 3 years. Recently, however, I started taking lessons with a university jazz guitar lecturer, and I've been thrown into the world of intervallic, melodic, and modal thinking. It's hard, but I know it'll help more in the long run.

[Alkatraz]

STARted with how, i wish i would have started with why, but the why is coming along nicely, it's not something you can learn by yourself,

[saves515]

Shred is the antithesis of music.....Theory can be useful in many cases, but it can also kill creativity if you let it be your only outlet. There needs to be a good balance between theory and just dicking around on the fretboard. Creativity doesnt come by learning theory. Some of the technically best guitarists i know write some of the worst music immaginable because they have become obsessed with theory. Its a double edged sword

[poona]

rockergirl1122 wrote:

Good article I guess, but a true prodigy is someone who can say "Take your theory and shove it" and sound twice as good as you.

Take Jimi Hendrix and Jimmy Page for example.
Neither had any knowlege of theory (although Page knew a couple of blues scales, naturally, however) but still managed to be absolutely mind-blowing.

I respect those who know theory and how to read music, but learning music and playing music take two different sides of the brain. Creative talent=right brain, the side of the brain that guitar genises (NATURAL, no lessons, no theory) use every day. The left side of the brain is used by orchestras, etc., but they are simply knowlegable; skilled; not talented.

I respect knowlegable more than the talented. Talent is something thats just given to you, theory takes time and effort to master. A 'talented' person is like somebody who got a high position in the office just 'cause he was the boss' son, and the 'knowlegable' guy is somebody who worked his way up from the bottom.

[Michael056]

its actualy very important knowing theory like have you ever play a song with chords in it? thats theory even if you just wanna play songs you're gonna come to learning chords and theory like for example wanted dead or alive (god im addicted to that song) you're gonna learn the f, d, g, and c chords or atleast some variation of them. theory is in everything you play and if you dont play any chords in the song you're gonna be playing in a certian key signature then there may be accidentals (sorry for those of you that dont know musical terms ive been in the school band since like 4th grade lol) so techniacaly everything you play has theory in it so what it comes down to is do you pay attention and learn about the theory and aply it to your music or do you just use it, not knowing what it is. learning the theory will only make your playing easier so you really should learn about it. also it can help you improvise and have it not sound like crap lol it doesnt matter which you do first the how or why but aslong as you get to the why youll become great with enough practice and hard work. so if you're in school join band any instrument will give you an understanding of the theory and if you're out of school get some private lesseons or w/e idk just learn the theory

*Checked*

[and1balla15]

Heres a fact about shredding. When you go and shred in front of a crowd, they would probably go like "YEAH! thats my boy!" but after 5 seconds of shredding, like at 200bpm, the song would get boring and the crowd would get bored quiet easily.

[callum2903]

hey, yeh great article, i play trombone drums and guitar
with drums its fine to get by without that much theory because its all about the feel u get form the song that decideds what u play,
but im in a jazz band with the trombone and its is so annoying cause our bassest is great at what he does, but like most bassests he is self taught, so knows jack shit on keys and stuff so when it some to jamming since u cant corospong frets to trombone postitions that easily i it take ages to figure out what he has to play to play in key. same happens with my guitar in a band im in with that, but at least you can just shift position if it sounds rong, and make it sound like a slide, but still music theory is essential to being a good player, i dont think the " how" method really works past the extent of playing intermediate stuff, and certianly doesnt work if your in a badn,,, u will just polay covers after covers cause u have no idea how to write songs!
thats my veiws on tihs topic, lol, feel free to rip em to shreds :P

[Quicksand15]

i think all these shred guitarists sound pretty much the same...they are technically great, but IMO they don't have an own style. their music has no soul, its just technic^^

i think finding an own style (with theory or without it) is the most important thing in music...

[Papercliptro]

I'm always suggesting to people that they go into the theory class our high school offers for a short kind of introduction to theory. Since I did, I've gotten a lot better as a guitarist as well as a violinist but I still have much to learn.
However, when I write, I don't always apply theory. It sometimes helps me to just put what I think sounds good even if it doesn't match the rules I've learned.
Great article, though

[MadBudha]

Great article and good subject--though we differ I think theory can be over applied like any general rule. People who say anything is possible generally don't mean the possibility of impossibilities. That being said theory is useful communication method and to deny it and its influence on most of the music we listen to is a bit foolhardy. However I must say it is more foolish to follow theory as if it is some penal code and you'll get fined. I use both theory and a departure from theory. This way I know when I am bending and breaking rules and I believe this lends to my creativity. Straight theory with out some solid key changes is the most bland music to my ears.

[Kunundrum]

marcus00
Sure, there are exceptions out there like Buckethead, Hendrix, etc... But how many guitarists are there/have there every been and how many virtuoso players are there?

Buckethead and hendrix know theory. Hendrix just didn't know it was called theory per se.

[Charlie4]

I've been playing for a few years now and I feel it's really important to seriously start learning theory since it opens a lot more doors (musically-speaking). Besides most virtuosos like Malmsteem, Satriani, Zakk Wylde etc. know what the hell they're doing when they play.

[J.MitMetallica]

Fishticuffs wrote:


Buckethead definitely knows about theory. There are definite examples of him sticking to scales, building chords accordingly and so on. Buckethead also plays in many more styles then people realize, since many have only heard some of his more "evil sounding" stuff.

Oh for goodness' sake, why is everyone getting all worked up, or even bothering about buckethead and theory. It is quite clear the man knows damned straight what he is doing, even if he is using all four fingers to tap on his right hand...

[IlIk2plygUItAr]

A lot was kinda pointless... you could have summed it up in one sentence: "You should learn theory because it makes you a better musician."

[Blahboom]

I fully agree with your statement, many people believe they can learn an instrument (usually guitar) with... magic I guess. Before I even picked up a guitar I spent seven years on a monotone instrument and two years on a keyboard. The actual skill involved in playing those instruments taught me nothing about guitar, but the theory of it taught me enough to become very good very quickly. I refuse to stop there though and I am taking a music theory class next year in college. I believe we could create much better musicians by teaching the concept of music before the actually skill of guitar.

[ReeseKillsHIV]

I don't KNOW theory.
I grasp some of it though...if that makes sense.
I learn songs, which teach me progressions, timings, chord patterns. I couldn't tell you what chord I'm playing, but I can play it.
So basically, I know how alot of it works, just by the mathmatical side of it, but...I don't know names of anything.
So, it is possible, to just...REALIZE how the guitar works...but I still need to know " why " I got it to work...
So yeah, theory is everything, even playing power chords in a progression is theory at its's simplest.

[RockerPseudonym]

I understand the point of theory, but have absolutely no formal training except for what I can remember in Elementary school...and I'm 20 now.
At least theory is done in a particular fashion, unlike tabs, which people make up rules for it on the spot...just check this site for any moderately obscure song...way off topic...sorry.

[bortbort]

A column on theory would be awesome!!!! I've been playing for a little over 12 years and have no clue on theroy. I bought books tapes, you name it I tried it, save for formal training as I just simply dont have time for lessons between work, band practice, and the Kids. My Band is fairly successful on the local level as we ply out 6 8 times a month but I still feel empty as a musician as I have almost no ability to improvise. I mean I know many scales and modes but like you said up there if were playing something in A I'l just screw around with the major or minor scale. I would love to have a better comprehension of music.

[mercedesisbenz]

I agree entirely. When I have a new student, I ask them a similar question. My thing is, "Do you want to be a guitarist? Or a Musician?" Then I explain the difference.

[guitarzan_16]

excellent writing. very much respect

[one vision]

Theory is what sets guitarists apart from musicians. Good stuff, finally someone who understands the importance of theory.