agile les paul?

[EvilMonkeySG3]

If i were to get one of these guitars and then upgrade the pups wuld it be similar to one of the better gibson models....i play alot of zakk wylde stuph and i want a guitar similar to his....just wondering if this wuld be a decent deal for the money

and are these guitars that much different...wuld the 3500 be much better?

http://www.rondomusic.net/al-3000rootbeer.html

http://www.rondomusic.net/al3500prestblkch.html

[Mudder]

If you're going to swap pickups anyway go with the 3000. I have one, swapped pickups, and it's absolutely a great guitar. Mine has an excellent finish, the neck and frets are very well done, and it sounds great.

If I had a bit more money and time I'd go the full nine and do pots, jack, and switch but it's unnecessary.

[EvilMonkeySG3]

r the 2800s the same? i like the look of this one to
http://www.rondomusic.net/al2800unifprofileblk.html

[Chazzy29]

Mudder, do you have a picture of your Agile, I'd love to see it.

[zeppelin68]

the AL-3500 has a 3/4 maple cap
The AL-3000 has a 1/16 maple veneer

You'll get a more Les Paul tone of the AL-3500, it be having one of dose damn nice maple caps which be brightening up da tone a bit. Its more similar to the Zakk Wylde epi, because of the maple cap... add some emg's to that, and your bound to get that nice tone out of it

But since the AL-3000 has no maple cap to brighten the tone, it will be more darker...
that plus some nice emg's and your bound to get a nice sound metal tone out of it...

Its all up to you... the al-3500 is a bit pricier than the al-3000...

[EvilMonkeySG3]

i think i want more of a metal sound...but which wuld be better for all around...i play alot of metal but i also play lots of other things from classic rock to blues to heavy metal..

[Crunchmeister]

If you have the cash, then the 3500 is the way to go. Not only is the maple top thicker, but it also has a much improved Gotoh bridge. It's worth the extra cash IMO for those 2.

But either will do metal equally well with new pickups. I have the all-mahogany AL-3000 and it sounds pretty good with its EMGs.

[Chazzy29]

It's weird though... the Agile cost more than what I paid for my Epiphone Les Paul Classic Sunburst Flame Top brand new.

[Crunchmeister]

It's weird though... the Agile cost more than what I paid for my Epiphone Les Paul Classic Sunburst Flame Top brand new.

The 3500 is a damn fine guitar. It's a little more than an Epi Classic, but you get a while lot more guitar for your money too. The 3000 is cheaper than an Epi Classic and is also a much better guitar.

[Chazzy29]

^^^ Can't argue that since I've never played an Agile. But I can not say there was much of a difference between a $3000 gibson vs. my $350 Epi. The electrons/hardware and the the AAA flame top were better on the gibson, those are the only things that I could find.

The pick-ups are a cheap upgrade and are the first change I make to any of my guitars. I'm a Duncan fan.

I personally wouldn't pay $500 for an Agile, I can buy Epi Classics all day long for $350 and those guitars (aside from the pups) are everything I could hope for in a guitar.

[Crunchmeister]

Well I can tell a huge difference between Gibson and Epi in both tone and feel. However, I can't say that I agree that it's worth the $2000+ difference in price though. I'm even able to pick Gibson LPs apart from their sound (I'm very picky about Les Paul tone, and only very particular ones will do). I guess that comes with experience.

[Chazzy29]

Yeah. I'm not able to tell a specific model number apart from Gibson vs another..... but I've only been playing for 16 (almost 17) years.

Of course I'm very picky on how my amp is adjusted, that's how I get the sound that I want.... not by paying more for a guitar that does the same thing as a $350 guitar does...

I feel very comfortable playing my Epi. In fact, as I've owned 100's of guitars through my life, maybe I just have the nitch for being able feel comfortable at playing any decent guitar?

[guitarforever<3]

No, you can't make a 500 $guitar as good as a 2500$+ guitar simply by changing the pickups. The material is better with gibsons, with more attention to detail.

I've never played an agile, but most people seem to think its good for the price paid.

[Crunchmeister]

Yeah. I'm not able to tell a specific model number apart from Gibson vs another.....

Well, I can't tell you which is which as in which model it is. To me, there's little correlation between the different models and tone. However, give me 5 Les Pauls, and I can pretty easily distinguish and describe the difference in tone. And to me, very few models have 'that sound' that I look for in a Les Paul - regardless of the model. If that tone isn't there, I won't buy the guitar.

but I've only been playing for 16 (almost 17) years.

Really? And you can't tell the difference in tone between a Gibson and an Epi?!?!? Man, that's a difference of night and day. They sound nothing alike.

But that aside, personal preference is personal preference. I prefer playing my $550 (after upgrades) Agile over my Gibson or my 2 custom shop guitars. It just feels better than my other guitars. In that respect, price has no bearing. It's just a great guitar to play. Yeah, I have better sounding guitars, but this is my all-around best guitar.

[Danno13]

I personally wouldn't pay $500 for an Agile, I can buy Epi Classics all day long for $350 and those guitars (aside from the pups) are everything I could hope for in a guitar.


...Aren't you the guy who's paying $300 for a China Les Paul?

[Chazzy29]

...Aren't you the guy who's paying $300 for a China Les Paul?

No, I'm the guy trying to get China to send me a sample Gibson... If the quality is good enough, I may buy up a large quantity (set them up to play like a $3grand Gibson) and resale them for double what I pay.

I'm always in search of new business ideas. I'm currently working on other projects as we speak.

I've been preoccupied as I've just ordered two SX guitars from Rondomusic. I've owed and played 100's of guitars through my dedicated 16 years of passion at playing guitar.


Like I said, I wouldn't pay $500 for an Agile as Epi excels in every aspect at quality to fulfill my expectation and then some... and unlike Agile, Epi's have resale value.

Crunchmeister: for sh~ts and giggles, listen to the song "Die MF Die" by Dope and tell me what guitar he is playing. Thanks!

[Armored Artist]

Epis have a resale value? Unlike Agile? What are you smoking dude? Agiles go for above original price on Ebay.

Btw, selling counterfeit products is illegal.

[Crunchmeister]

Like I said, I can't tell what guitar someone is playing from the sound. And when the guitar is in a mix with other instruments and had a ****load of effects and post-processing, that's pretty much impossible for anyone.

And yeah. If you were to buy a bunch of these guitars and resell them, you'll then be violating trademark laws and opening yourself to lawsuit from Gibson. Why do you think that only the Chinese can get away with it? It's because they don't recognize anyone's copyright and trademark laws. And being in China, Gibson (or anyone else) can't touch these people.

And yeah. The really popular and rarer Agiles (like the original Ghost Explorer) actually sell for as much as double the original $199 they sold for. Some of the first AL-3000s with the original Gibson body shape and old headstock are selling for more than the $300 they originally sold for. But granted, these are exceptions, and not the rule.

And Epis have ne real resale value. Buy one today brand new, and sell it as used tomorrow, and you're already lost 25-50% of its value new.

[Chazzy29]

Epis have a resale value? Unlike Agile? What are you smoking dude? Agiles go for above original price on Ebay.

Btw, selling counterfeit products is illegal.


Please provide me a link to all three of your claims.

1). Epi's hold no value
2). Agile sell above original price.
3). Selling Gibson (copys) are illegal.

Thanks and I'll be waiting for the links to your claim!

[Crunchmeister]

Selling copies of Gibson isn't illegal. Selling counterfeits with the Gibson brand on them is.

And I looked on ebay, and none of the Agiles in question are available right now. But keep looking. The come up from time to time.

[Ippon]

No, you can't make a 500 $guitar as good as a 2500$+ guitar simply by changing the pickups. The material is better with gibsons, with more attention to detail.

I've never played an agile, but most people seem to think its good for the price paid.True! And nobody will begin to imagine that my Agile 3000M sounds just as good as my Gibson CS; however, Agile has enough qualities that a capable musician will take a while to truly fully exploit. Besides, if you lose your Agile or damage it, you won't get the sick feeling or desire to maim somebody if your Gibson gets damaged or stolen.

[Crunchmeister]

True! And nobody will begin to imagine that my Agile 3000M sounds just as good as my Gibson CS; however, Agile has enough qualities that a capable musician will take a while to truly fully exploit. Besides, if you lose your Agile or damage it, you won't get the sick feeling or desire to maim somebody if your Gibson gets damaged or stolen.


Totally agreed. If I want the best tone possible, I'm going to pick up my Gibson, ESP, or Lado (depending on the sound I'm looking for). If I want to pratice, jam out or gig, then my Agile is the main guitar. It feels the best, has awesome action, sounds great, and if I put a large gouge in the finish or snap the neck off on stage, I can easily replace it with another identical one for under $400. If that were to occur to one of my expensive guitars, I would freak.

I mean, I accept that my guitars (as rare and expensive as 2 of them are) are players, and not collector's items. They will get get scratched and suffer wear and tear. It doesn't mean I don't care when they get scratched, but it doesn't freak me out like it would some people. Nonetheless, I do try to keep them in good condition. I have no such 'cares and worries' about my Agile. I do keep it in top condition, but wouldn't be overly concerned if anything were to happen to it.

[Ippon]

I mean, I accept that my guitars (as rare and expensive as 2 of them are) are players, and not collector's items. They will get get scratched and suffer wear and tear. It doesn't mean I don't care when they get scratched, but it doesn't freak me out like it would some people. Nonetheless, I do try to keep them in good condition. I have no such 'cares and worries' about my Agile. I do keep it in top condition, but wouldn't be overly concerned if anything were to happen to it. :cheers:
You consider them players now but the way I figure, once I have my own kids, I'm thinking my Gibsons and Fenders (even the MIJ Squier) will be colletors' items :) And when the binding on my 3000M peeled, I had less control than you because I freaked. Although I didn't feel like hurting somebody, I did look for Kurt's TN, calmed down, and just fixed it.

[Chazzy29]

Originally Posted by Armored Artist
Epis have a resale value? Unlike Agile? What are you smoking dude? Agiles go for above original price on Ebay.

Btw, selling counterfeit products is illegal.

Please provide me a link to all three of your claims.

1). Epi's hold no value
2). Agile sell above original price.
3). Selling Gibson (copys) are illegal.

Thanks and I'll be waiting for the links to your claim!

Still waiting for the proof of these claims....

[Crunchmeister]

You can answer #1 and #2 by looking at ebay yourself. #2 is a little hard because these Agiles don't come up for sale often. People who got the original Ghost and the old AL-3000 generally don't want to part with them, which is why you don't see them on ebay often. They only sold both those models with the original Gibson shape for 1 production run before Gibson made them change body shapes.

But these are the only 2 Agiles that I've ever seen selling for more than they originally cost. Like I said, these are the exception, not the rule. Generally they sell for less, just like an Epiphone.

As for #3, give Gibson a call at 1-800-4-gibson and tell them you're planning on buying a bunch of counterfeit Gibsons from China for sale in the US. Then tell us what they say. Your next contact from them will be from their legal team.

[Chazzy29]

1) I purchased my Epi brand new for $350 shipped to the door and here is a used one that sold on eBay for $425 +Shipping. (http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-EPIPHONE-LES-PAUL-CLASSIC-FLAMETOP-CHERRY-SUNBURST_W0QQitemZ7413104473QQcategoryZ33037QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

So that claim holds not water!

2) Here is a used Agile AL- 4000 (not the lesser 3000 model) which sold for $270.00 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Agile-4000-Black-Marble-Les-Paul-Original-Horn-HS_W0QQitemZ7414017965QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

So that claim holds no water!

3) Gibson cannot give legal advice, so per an attorney at law... I can, in fact, resale a guitar of this nature as long as I do not misrepresent the product or manufacturer the product. There is no legal form that says that I cannot sell a guitar.

So that claim holds not water!

This just proves that: "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." ~Plato

[Metalcore_slave]

^ That AL-4000 is probably fake as I've never seen an AL model higher than the AL-3500 O.o

[Crunchmeister]

It sure is easy to 'get your point across' when you manipulate the info.

First, the $350 price you paid is not typical of a new Epiphone unless it's a blem or factory second. Take a look at the majority of NEW Epi Les Pauls on ebay, and they're almost all over $500. Musician's Friend, the CHEAPEST source of Epiphone sell them for $499.

Secondly, that's not al AL-4000. That's an old Agile 2500, easily identifiable by the lack of headstock / neck binding. This one predates the existence of the 3000, and it sold for $169 new 4 years ago. And for the record, it's one of the ugliest guitars I've ever seen.

And if you actually called Gibson and asked them, I would say that regardless of the fact that you're not misrepresenting, they would still be after you because the actual instruments have the GIBSON name on it. Trust me, Gibson don't let ANYONE fück with their brand name, particularly if they're substandard instruments, since it gives them a bad name.

[Chazzy29]

^ That AL-4000 is probably fake as I've never seen an AL model higher than the AL-3500 O.o

HahAHahhahahaa! Yeah, cuz Agile has such high demand that China, Japan, Indonesia are all racing to make fake Agiles....

But wait... that wouldn't make sense. Why build a fake guitar that already sells for chump change... I don't see the logic in that at all!

Thanks for the laugh tho! LoL!!!!

[Crunchmeister]

It's not a fake. It was misrepresented in the auction by the seller. And it still sold for $100 more than its original new price.

Fools because they have to say something." ~Plato

lol. Well, this certianly explains your irrational need to let us know tha Epis are better guitar.

And I should add that I've been around here for some time. I've gained the respect of the other members because I'm probably one of the most impartial and fair 'advisors' on this board (hence why I'm on the mods' "who to listen to" list. It seems to me all you've done so far is try to prove your point with half-witted comebacks and erronious information to try sink other people to get your point across.

Sorry, but I find it hard to take advice seriously from someone who claims to have been playing guitar 16 years but can't tell the difference in tone between a mahogany Gibson and an alder Epiphone. That right there speaks volumes.

[Metalcore_slave]

HahAHahhahahaa! Yeah, cuz Agile has such high demand that China, Japan, Indonesia are all racing to make fake Agiles....

But wait... that wouldn't make sense. Why build a fake guitar that already sells for chump change... I don't see the logic in that at all!

Thanks for the laugh tho! LoL!!!!

You sir, are a d*ck

What I meant is that the seller could have took the lower quailty AL's (2000's) and added some ****ty finish too it. Not that another company had produced the guitar.

The point is that it isn't an AL-4000 and that you were fooled by the auction into thinking that it was actually higher quality and more exspensive than the AL-3500

[Chazzy29]

It sure is easy to 'get your point across' when you manipulate the info.

Hahhahahahha! I didn't manipulate anything.... you get busted on an ILL claim and now you wish to say it was "manipulated"? Interesting indeed!

First, the $350 price you paid is not typical of a new Epiphone unless it's a blem or factory second. Take a look at the majority of NEW Epi Les Paul's on ebay, and they're almost all over $500.

I paid $350 for a brand new LP classic shipped to the door. It's not a blem or a 2nd. Do you usually pay the asking price or do you try to negotiate a price. I believe I still have the email conversation with the salesman.... (if you need more proof) LoL! "manipulate" That's classic!

Secondly, that's not al AL-4000. That's an old Agile 2500, easily identifiable by the lack of headstock / neck binding. This one predates the existence of the 3000, and it sold for $169 new 4 years ago. And for the record, it's one of the ugliest guitars I've ever seen.

Mmmmm, says AL-4000. please provide a link proving that is a $169.00. Also, notice in the aution the guy states that it's the "Original horn and headstock design before Gibson forced the change." Or did I "manipulate" the entire thing?

And if you actually called Gibson and asked them, I would say that regardless of the fact that you're not misrepresenting, they would still be after you because the actual instruments have the GIBSON name on it. Trust me, Gibson don't let ANYONE fück with their brand name, particularly if they're substandard instruments, since it gives them a bad name.

Again, Gibson is not a law firm and cannot give legal advice.... however an Attorney at law can. And since I'm not misrepresenting or the one manufacturing the item, there is nothing they can do.

Of course Gibson can make idle threats.... none that could hold up in the court of law. I guess they could hire a secret mob to come to my house and bust my knee caps.... Hahahahah!

I'll be waiting for the proof that guitar Agile sells for $169 new.

[Danno13]

^Crunch, you can't deal with this jackass.
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359135&page=2&highlight=china+les+paul
Proof.

[Crunchmeister]

I'll be waiting for the proof that guitar Agile sells for $169 new.

Dude. You're an idiot. Get your own lazy ass to do your research. Email Kurt at Rondo yourself and ask him. You'll a reply within 24 hours. It's not like you're going to believe me if I posted what Kurt emailed back to me anyway.

[Crunchmeister]

^Crunch, you can't deal with this jackass.
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359135&page=2&highlight=china+les+paul
Proof.

Yeah. I'm just gonna let him stew in his own ignorance. He's probably gonna be a good souce of comedy aroudn here with his brand of 'information'. lol

[Chazzy29]

Okay, here is another Agile LP copy... And this one comes with a very nice hardshell case. (Included)

$212.50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Agile-Les-Paul-Copy-Rare-All-Natural-Mint-Condition-HSC_W0QQitemZ7413148750QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (or did I manipulate it?)

[Crunchmeister]

What I meant is that the seller could have took the lower quailty AL's (2000's) and added some ****ty finish too it. Not that another company had produced the guitar.

Actually, that's an original finish. I remember my friend and I laughing at how gay they would look in a metal band. This was my friend who ended up buying the first 5 Agiles I got to try. He bought an Agile 2500 (they weren't called the AL series back then, only a model number) that very day for $169.

The point is that it isn't an AL-4000 and that you were fooled by the auction into thinking that it was actually higher quality and more exspensive than the AL-3500

Right. He's such an «expert» that he gets fooled by 'deceptive' ebay auctions that someone with even an iota of knowledge on the matter in question would pick out right away. This is getting funnier and funnier by the second. I can't wait to read his next informed 'comeback' to this. :D

[Danno13]

Judging by the binding, that's a 2500 as well. $169 again.

[Chazzy29]

Yeah. I'm just gonna let him stew in his own ignorance. He's probably gonna be a good souce of comedy aroudn here with his brand of 'information'. lol

Prove me ingnorant and back up your bullsh~t claim....

You can't... can you?

[Crunchmeister]

Okay, here is another Agile LP copy... And this one comes with a very nice hardshell case. (Included)

$212.50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Agile-Les-Paul-Copy-Rare-All-Natural-Mint-Condition-HSC_W0QQitemZ7413148750QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) (or did I manipulate it?)

Either you manipulate, or you just don't bother reading what others post. Or you post **** and think people are jsut stupid enough to take it at face value.

I specifically said there are only TWO models of Agile that currently sell for considerably more than their new price - the original Ghost (Gibson Explorer copy) and the original Agile 3000 with the old Gibson body. This guitar you're providing as proof is neither.

So again, we have another totally groundless, irrelevant argument. Dude, quit it before you make it look like your IQ is also your shoe size.

Prove me ingnorant and back up your bullsh~t claim....

You can't... can you?

Dude, I don't have to. You're taking care of that all on your own with every post you make.

[Chazzy29]

....and another. I can do this all day! (http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-w-Gold-Hardware-Les-Paul-Agile-guitar_W0QQitemZ7412670677QQcategoryZ33040QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Agiles hold no value... but instead, you wish to say it was "manipulated"

[Danno13]

*gasp!* Another 2500! If not a 2000! That's a $150 guitar, man, give up.

Oh, and we all know you were intrigued by this link...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190000148408&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX
Gonna buy it, Chaz?

[Chazzy29]

Either you manipulate, or you just don't bother reading what others post. Or you post **** and think people are jsut stupid enough to take it at face value.

I specifically said there are only TWO models of Agile that currently sell for considerably more than their new price - the original Ghost (Gibson Explorer copy) and the original Agile 3000 with the old Gibson body. This guitar you're providing as proof is neither.

So again, we have another totally groundless, irrelevant argument. Dude, quit it before you make it look like your IQ is also your shoe size.



Dude, I don't have to. You're taking care of that all on your own with every post you make.

Now you wish to back peddle and resort to childish name calling. Your claims hold no water!

Why do you wish to dangle your testosterone instead of admitting that you were wrong?

[Crunchmeister]

....and another. I can do this all day! (http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-w-Gold-Hardware-Les-Paul-Agile-guitar_W0QQitemZ7412670677QQcategoryZ33040QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Agiles hold no value... but instead, you wish to say it was "manipulated"

lol. this gets funnier with every post... :haha

[guitarforever<3]

Dude, quit it before you make it look like your IQ is also your shoe size.

In my country that would mean that he was the uncontestably smartest man in the whole world :p:

:haha

I sympathize with his postion though.. I too was once "owned" by another guy, and some idiots chimed in saying how he was winning, when he was only talking bull****. Not saying its the same in this case. And im not saying danno is a chiming idiot either :p:

[Crunchmeister]

Why do you wish to dangle your testosterone instead of admitting that you were wrong?

lol. You're unreal, man. Like seriously. You haven't made a single correct point in this thread to date. I haven't heard anyone else in this thread backing up your arguments. This information is common knowledge around here. All the 'proof' you provide is pointless because it's not pertinent to the models we're talking about. No one said all Agiles would increase in value. You started arguing that all by youself.

Only 2 specific models have increased because they were very popular, made in very limited numbers and are now discontinued because of legal threats by Gibson, giving them that coveted 'lawsuit' status (even though techically it never went to court). There are none of them on ebay at the moment, so no ebay post is you made in this thread is worth anything.

[Danno13]

^Well, I could be...

*chimes idiotically*

but he's just blatantly wrong.

[Chazzy29]

It's not funny that Agile hold no value... but it's good to know for the people who wish to make an investment.

I'm sure they are nice guitars, but per the eBay market, they hold no value.

Bottom line, I personally would prefer my Epi rather than an over priced copy.

[guitarforever<3]

But epiphone are copies as well. Crunch said all along that all agiles except spesific loses value over time, just like epiphones...

[Crunchmeister]

In my country that would mean that he was the uncontestably smartest man in the whole world :p:


That would mean your shoe size is measured in millimeters. Are you in Asia?

[Crunchmeister]

But epiphone are copies as well. Crunch said all along that all agiles except spesific loses value over time, just like epiphones...

Exactly. Seems chazzy was so intent on trying to prove he was right that he was the only one that didn't catch that point, even though I mentioned it several times. Anyone who would expect a Korean-made import guitar to increase in value would definately be smoking rope. That only happens in very exceptional circumstances as did with the old 3000 and the Gost.

And despite that, they're still selling for cheap. In terms of percentage, they certainly apreciated in value, but they're never going to be worth anything significant other than its value as an instrument to its owner. I know I have no intention of selling my Agile.

[Chazzy29]

You started arguing that all by youself. Only 2 specific models have increased because they were very popular, made in very limited numbers and are now discontinued.

Copy & Paste the quote that I said only 2 specific models don't hold any value... I stated that Agile doesn't hold value.

Copy & Paste please.

There are two people on this board claiming the 4000 isn't a 4000. But "misrepresentation" an item constitutes a ban from eBay.

Yet that seller has 473 trades and a flawless 100% feedback.

So who know more about that guitar... the owner who appears honest based on his ebay transactions... or two people on a guitar site that obvioulsy have no clue?

My vote goes to the seller with 100% feed back. Have a nice day! :liplick:

[Danno13]

^Email Kurt at Rondo, ask him.

Do you work at mcdonalds or something?

[bonchie1]

And Epis have ne real resale value. Buy one today brand new, and sell it as used tomorrow, and you're already lost 25-50% of its value new.

i just sold an epi LP standard 03 model for 560 bucks on ebay...of course it had the pups changed but i'd say i got my money back and then some still.

[Crunchmeister]

The majority of this guy's feedback is from sellers, although in fairness, he does have 85 positives for his selling.

Dude, I've been very familiar with Agiles for about 4 years now. But you're not going to believe ANY of us about this guitar unless you get the info from Kurt himself. Just send him an email.

And chazzy, you misunderstood what I posted earlier. I didn't say YOU stated about only 2 models. That's what I said. Someone else posted that some Agiles sell for more than new on ebay, and you indeed claimed that held no water. From that point on, I explained repeatedly that this was only true for 2 specific models of Agile, but you ignored that thru the rest of your posts posting links to Agile auctions that were irrelevant.

[Crunchmeister]

i just sold an epi LP standard 03 model for 560 bucks on ebay...of course it had the pups changed but i'd say i got my money back and then some still.

When you consider what they normally sell for stock on ebay, that's a good deal for you. And probably for the buyer too, considering the pickup change.

[Chazzy29]

Since the 4000 doesn't exist you assume it's the 2500, not the 3000?

[Danno13]

^No, I assume that because it doesn't have Abalone binding, which all 3000 and higher models have.

Moron.

[SlipAway]

Actually the Agile 4000 did exist..it sold for under $300 though.

EDIT: Reviews and amount paid of the Agile LP 4000 (notice these were posted in 2002)

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Agile/LP4000_Sparkle_Top-1.html

[Chazzy29]

^No, I assume that because it doesn't have Abalone binding, which all 3000 and higher models have.

Moron.

You're idiot and I have no respect for you... you should be banned! I've read a handful of useless posts written by you while never having anything to, EVER, back up your claims.


I never have and never will direct any question or comments to you.

Now go back to your cave, TROLL!

[Mudder]

Someone asked for a pic of my Agile. Here it is with Swinesheads, Warthog bridge/Condor neck.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y50/Mudder1310/PICT0001.jpg

[Xenn99]

Chazzy, you're nothing but a stupid ****. My God you're dumb.

FIRST, there is no such thing as a China-made Gibson. The ones that you're looking to buy are garbage illegal copies worth nothing. They have the cheapest components you can get and are FAKES. Gibson, in NO WAY WHATSOEVER makes or authorizes those guitars. If you can't believe that, you're a bigger idiot than I thought.

SECOND, the Agile you posted was indeed an AL-2000 or AL-2500. Grow some balls and e-mail Kurt. Put the link to that guitar in the e-mail and he'll tell you exactly what model it is. As for your other links, none of them are the two models mentioned by Crunchmeister, so they hold no claim whatsoever. Either find one of the exact models Crunchmeister was talking about, or don't bother posting links.

THIRD, It is indeed illegal to sell fake, unauthorized guitars with a company's name on the headstock. This is obvious - how you continue to think that it's all fine and dandy is beyond me. You're just making a fool of yourself. Go ahead. E-mail or call Gibson. Also include the link if you e-mail and ask if it is an actual Gibson. They may not be lawyers, buy I can guarantee you that they have a full legal team.

You're one of the biggest dumbasses on this forum. You keep trying to prove your point, yet people have already shown you that you're wrong. And yet, you keep arguing. Get a life and stop being such a ****ing jackass.

[StratRat13]

You're idiot and I have no respect for you... you should be banned! I've read a handful of useless posts written by you while never having anything to, EVER, back up your claims.


I never have and never will direct any question or comments to you.

Now go back to your cave, TROLL!

Dude Danno has been here longer than you, has 10x more knowledge, and just overall pwns you. You have been proven wrong about 3 times, and you just ignore it. Accept that you ****ed up and just be mature about it.

[bonchie1]

well this thread was entertaining...

technically chazzy was wrong since you pointed out some discountinued model or something that holds value but the vast amount of agiles hold no more value then an epi does...so why try to bring out some special case to prove they do?

i'm sure there are discontinued epis that go for more then there new price was...so what.

epi's and agiles both = not alot of resale value. they are already cheap guitars...why would anyone expect them to resale for a ton?

[Chazzy29]

Xenn99, all I read is blah.blah.blah. With nothing to back anything up... all you're doing is making yourself look like a dumbass.

First: I never said they were Gibson, I said they were a off-branch making a copy. I have nothing proving if it's legal or not legal. But I have proved (via the other thread) that Gibson, did in fact, unite with China for mass production. There is no contest to your dispute, I've already proved it.

Second: I never said (copy & paste if I did) that a certain type of Agile has no value. I said Agile (On the current market right now) holds no value. Example: EBAY $142.50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Agile-AL-2000-CSB-Electric-Guitar-LP-copy_W0QQitemZ7413874540QQcategoryZ2384QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) vs. Current Market $199.99 (Same model #) (http://www.rondomusic.net/al2000amber.html)

CruchMaster and I didn't have meeting of the minds... and he admitted the current market hold no value:

"And chazzy, you misunderstood what I posted earlier. I didn't say YOU stated about only 2 models. That's what I said. Someone else posted that some Agiles sell for more than new on ebay, and you indeed claimed that held no water."

Third: You don't know much about Laws in America, do you? AS I repeated over and over and over again and again and again... Gibson is NOT a Law Firm!

There Xenn99... I think I gave you enough homework for the day. Now run along!

[StratRat13]

No, you can't make a 500 $guitar as good as a 2500$+ guitar simply by changing the pickups. The material is better with gibsons, with more attention to detail.

I've never played an agile, but most people seem to think its good for the price paid.

No but playing a 2500 guitar with a 200 dollar amp will sound worse than a 1500 dollar amp with a 5-700 dollar guitar.

[Xenn99]

**** you. I'm not doing busywork to prove your stupid ass wrong. I have better things to do with my time.

You're a ****ing moron and you know it. Gibson isn't a law firm, but, now here's the important part; THEY HAVE ONE WORKING FOR THEM. You are in the wrong. And you know what? In the time I would spend doing the busywork to prove you wrong, I may just send Gibson an e-mail filled with links to all your topics saying how you're going to buy FAKE China Gibsons and sell them illegally.

I don't know, you getting slapped across the face with a lawsuit from Gibson's attourneys might get the fact that it is illegal to market a fake product with a company's name on it.

You did indeed post a link showing that Gibson makes guitars in China. I also showed you what "China made Gibsons" were. Those cheap Target guitars. And probably low end Epi's as well.

As for the Agile vs. Epi resale value, both will be low unless you have a limited edition model. Crunchmeister said this as well, and yet you still didn't agree with him. But, now you're saying that's what you were trying to get across all along, so who knows where you stand.

Your stupidity is astounding Chazzy. It is seriously in the best interest of humanity that you NEVER have children.

[Hovertruck]

Xenn99, all I read is blah.blah.blah. With nothing to back anything up... all you're doing is making yourself look like a dumbass.

First: I never said they were Gibson, I said they were a off-branch making a copy. I have nothing proving if it's legal or not legal. But I have proved (via the other thread) that Gibson, did in fact, unite with China for mass production. There is no contest to your dispute, I've already proved it.

Second: I never said (copy & paste if I did) that a certain type of Agile has no value. I said Agile (On the current market right now) holds no value. Example: EBAY $142.50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Agile-AL-2000-CSB-Electric-Guitar-LP-copy_W0QQitemZ7413874540QQcategoryZ2384QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) vs. Current Market $199.99 (Same model #) (http://www.rondomusic.net/al2000amber.html)

CruchMaster and I didn't have meeting of the minds... and he admitted the current market hold no value:

"And chazzy, you misunderstood what I posted earlier. I didn't say YOU stated about only 2 models. That's what I said. Someone else posted that some Agiles sell for more than new on ebay, and you indeed claimed that held no water."

Third: You don't know much about Laws in America, do you? AS I repeated over and over and over again and again and again... Gibson is NOT a Law Firm!

There Xenn99... I think I gave you enough homework for the day. Now run along!


My god you're dense.

Those are not copies authorized by Gibson. They are copies made out of shoddy materials by one armed poor children in a basement in China. The chances of one that actually works are slim to none. If you sold that, you are indeed breaking the law.

[guitarforever<3]

Why wont you let this thread die?

[Chazzy29]

Who cares about the Gibson... That's a project that I have moved to the side while I sample the SX from Rondomusic.

Xenna... you certainly can talk the talk but you're not bright enough to walk the walk.

[StratRat13]

Why wont you let this thread die?

Why should they, they are trying to point someone in the right direction.

[guitarforever<3]

No, they're giving him lip, and it only serves to consolidate their satisfaction at being right, and grinding the gears of chazzy. Give the guy a break... I dont like you stratrat13 anyway, so this only gives me right in my asessment of you. Stop being an ass.

[Chazzy29]

My god you're dense.

Those are not copies authorized by Gibson. They are copies made out of shoddy materials by one armed poor children in a basement in China. The chances of one that actually works are slim to none. If you sold that, you are indeed breaking the law.

This is off topic... pull up THAT thread if you wish to discuss it there. Otherwise, please stay on topic.

[SlipAway]

Xenna... you certainly can talk the talk but you're not bright enough to walk the walk.

:p:
that made me chuckle

[Xenn99]

Guitarforever, you're not much better than Chazzy. Honestly, you've done little else but be an ass since you got your new Gibson.

Chazzy, I'd rather be considered stupid than be a 40 year old ass hole living in my mother's basement trying to make get-rich-quick schemes with Chinese Gibson Copies.

And with that, I take my leave of this idiotic thread.

[Chazzy29]

^^^ Classic! HAHAhAHAHAHAHaHAHAHaHAh!

[Chazzy29]

Gee, I wonder what Chazzy29 means...mmmmmmm?

[zeppelin68]

its funny how the guys at UG get soo crazy about their agiles....

Any thread in UG, that has anything about agiles in it... all of a sudden goes to an all out war between fanboys, intelligent people, 40 year old who live with there moms, 13 year old who cant admit that there epi LP sucks, and finally the innocent people...

The TS was simply wanting to know how a al-3000 compares to a al-3500

and then it ends up we start talking about how agiles have no resale value etc

I have an epi LP standard, its made out of 100% alder, it has at least 10 comestic flaws, but then again, i aint complaining

PS, epis do have more resale value... theres always some sucker out there, who wants to be like jimmy page, and sees the gibson logo on the epi... and assumes its like a real gibson les paul, and just dishes out that extra money, because they never heard of rondomusic.net

[StratRat13]

No, they're giving him lip, and it only serves to consolidate their satisfaction at being right, and grinding the gears of chazzy. Give the guy a break... I dont like you stratrat13 anyway, so this only gives me right in my asessment of you. Stop being an ass.

Ok they are discussing legal issues, sorry if I respect that, because obviously you dont. You hold a grudge, come on man, its the ****ing internet. :haha

Edit: And Chazzy please dont double post, there's an edit post button for a reason.

[guitarforever<3]

Guitarforever, you're not much better than Chazzy. Honestly, you've done little else but be an ass since you got your new Gibson.

Chazzy, I'd rather be considered stupid than be a 40 year old ass hole living in my mother's basement trying to make get-rich-quick schemes with Chinese Gibson Copies.

And with that, I take my leave of this idiotic thread.

HOw exactly? What about shutting up. I made a thread about how its ridiculous that people here were saying that Agiles were better than gibbos, and several people who prob cant afford gibsons starts flaming me. We're talking heavy personal attacks, and i hadn't made even one comment that was critizising the others, except for a guy saying that i'd said something i hadn't.

Furthermore, i've seen you around, and you've pretty much revealed fully that you've thrown yourself on the anti-gibson bandwagon. I've been kind and repsectful in all my posts except when answering personal attacks. Like you are fronting now. So i suggest you take your statement about me being an ass, and stick it someplace no one will ever find it. Because anyone with a shred of decensy will see what a huge ball of **** you dropped in your trousers by calling me an ass.

Ill revert to your own tactic: You're not worth half a cent more than the dung beneath my feet. No, scratch that, dung would be embarassed to be put in the same catagorizing booth as you.

EDIT:

Ok they are discussing legal issues, sorry if I respect that, because obviously you dont. You hold a grudge, come on man, its the ****ing internet. :haha

Edit: And Chazzy please dont double post, there's an edit post button for a reason.


You were the one coming with personal attacks on me, without me having said **** to you. So please, lets dispense with the false overbearance.

This thread is dead for all intents and purposes. If you want to discuss law, go to the pit.

I hereby take my leave.

[Unofficial]

Chazzy, honestly just shut the hell up. Nobody wants to hear you rant on about your stupid crap. I refuse to argue with you. Normally, I enjoy debating, but in this case, you're just a smart alec dumbass. So please, just leave the thread.

Threadstarter: I bought an Agile 3500 around February, and I love it. It's the black cherry one(the second link you posted). I would reccommend the 3500 because in the long run, it will be better. It has a 3/4 maple cap instead of the 1/16 veneer, and you will get a better sound from it. If you're interested, I can email you some pictures, because it won't let me post them on the site. Good luck with your Agile!

[StratRat13]

HOw exactly? What about shutting up. I made a thread about how its ridiculous that people here were saying that Agiles were better than gibbos, and several people who prob cant afford gibsons starts flaming me. We're talking heavy personal attacks, and i hadn't made even one comment that was critizising the others, except for a guy saying that i'd said something i hadn't.

Furthermore, i've seen you around, and you've pretty much revealed fully that you've thrown yourself on the anti-gibson bandwagon. I've been kind and repsectful in all my posts except when answering personal attacks. Like you are fronting now. So i suggest you take your statement about me being an ass, and stick it someplace no one will ever find it. Because anyone with a shred of decensy will see what a huge ball of **** you dropped in your trousers by calling me an ass.

Ill revert to your own tactic: You're not worth half a cent more than the dung beneath my feet. No, scratch that, dung would be embarassed to be put in the same catagorizing booth as you.

That post was so contradicting. :haha

[Chazzy29]

Chazzy, honestly just shut the hell up.

Ummm.... no!

Nobody wants to hear you rant on about your stupid crap. I refuse to argue with you. Normally, I enjoy debating


I'm sure you only like to argue debates that you can actually win...

but in this case, you're just a smart alec dumbass. So please, just leave the thread.!

Wow, original... you should sell that line to Hallmark or something!

[StratRat13]

Ummm.... no!



I'm sure you only like to argue debates that you can actually win...



Wow, original... you should sell that line to Hallmark or something!


If you guys are just gonna rip on each other then just stop posting. If your going to actually discuss something, than post. Otherwise let it die. I doubt your 29, considering your matureness. So please stop argueing, cause it will only lead to bans.

[guitarforever<3]

If you guys are just gonna rip on each other then just stop posting. If your going to actually discuss something, than post. Otherwise let it die. I doubt your 29, considering your matureness. So please stop argueing, cause it will only lead to bans.

NOW you want it to die? I thought we were supposed to discuss legality?^^

[Chazzy29]

^^^ Legality is off topic anyhow. He should pull the proper thread if he wishes to discuss that.

[StratRat13]

NOW you want it to die? I thought we were supposed to discuss legality?^^

Because before they were on topic. Now they are just ripping on each other, the other posts had legal/guitar discussions in them between insults. Now it's just insults. Man Guitarforever your funny :haha

[Chazzy29]

Alright folks, I apologize for taking the defensive and becoming insulting. It's out of character for me.

I admit, it was irritating that I was called "Moron" - "dumbass" - "stupid".. while I provided all the hard evidence to my claims and others wanted to deflect the topic and not want to do some leg work to prove me wrong or to prove their claim. I can handle being proven wrong, if I am actually proven wrong.

Saying "you're an idiot and you are wrong!" isn't good debating skills. Back it up, that's all I want!

Again, I apologize... I'll try to play nicer. My mom just yelled down the stairs at me..... guess it's dinner time. LoL!

Cheers

[guitarforever<3]

Because before they were on topic. Now they are just ripping on each other, the other posts had legal/guitar discussions in them between insults. Now it's just insults. Man Guitarforever your funny :haha

No they were bandying insults all the while you ****face excuse for a human being.

[StratRat13]

No they were bandying insults all the while you ****face excuse for a human being.

What happened to: "I've been kind and repsectful in all my posts except when answering personal attacks."


:p:

[colin1234]

god i love reading this stuff where they know theyre wrong but that doesnt actually matter to them

[Ippon]

god i love reading this stuff where they know theyre wrong but that doesnt actually matter to them
pfftt! Without this and the 25 other Agile threads per week, the GB&C forum will be hopping.

The EG at this stage is like the Fender vintage PUs ... lots of hum. You don't want the EG to be completely noiseless.