Atheist hardcore.


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nz_matt
12-01-2008, 01:31 AM
This is a thread for people who don't believe in Santa.

Post your favourite Atheist hardcore.

JxD
12-01-2008, 01:33 AM
Cursed, Guilt Parade is such an awesome song.

saxaxe
12-01-2008, 01:34 AM
Pulling Teeth, Ceremony

YarTar
12-01-2008, 01:36 AM
Music made by Atheists or Atheist based songs?

12shinn21
12-01-2008, 01:38 AM
Good thread.

Speaking of Pulling Teeth, http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9inzBm9Y-z0
I think user: SadistNation was present when this was filmed.

nz_matt
12-01-2008, 01:41 AM
Ceremony
"I won't be skullfucked by faith, I am the upside down cross"

This is pretty much the only band that could get away with those lyrics. And I reckon they only just barely do.

Ceremony was the most violent band I've seen this year, I came out of both shows bleeding from the head. I wish there were more shows like that in Aus.

nz_matt
12-01-2008, 01:42 AM
Music made by Atheists or Atheist based songs?
whatever you want.

BladeSlinger
12-01-2008, 01:43 AM
Music made by Atheists or Atheist based songs?
Or the band Atheist?

BassFishin
12-01-2008, 01:43 AM
"I won't be skullfucked by faith, I am the upside down cross"

This is pretty much the only band that could get away with those lyrics. And I reckon they only just barely do.

Ceremony was the most violent band I've seen this year, I came out of both shows bleeding from the head. I wish there were more shows like that in Aus.

but....isn't an upside down cross a symbol of satanism? which is technically a religion?

edit: for the record, i'm atheist

pmeg568c
12-01-2008, 01:43 AM
do all the band members have to be atheist? or does that not make them an atheist band.



lol

macjac
12-01-2008, 01:46 AM
"I won't be skullfucked by faith, I am the upside down cross"

This is pretty much the only band that could get away with those lyrics. And I reckon they only just barely do.

Ceremony was the most violent band I've seen this year, I came out of both shows bleeding from the head. I wish there were more shows like that in Aus.

HA! a bleeding head sounds fun!

nz_matt
12-01-2008, 01:55 AM
but....isn't an upside down cross a symbol of satanism? which is technically a religion?

edit: for the record, i'm atheist
Actually it's a Christian symbol.
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/peter.html
http://prorege-forum.com/messages/776.html

When non-Christians use it it doesn't really mean anything, they're just being disrespectful.

recklessnick
12-01-2008, 02:00 AM
an upside down cross is a symbol of rejection of organised religion. a symbol of satanism is the pentagram or this guy

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/black_metal/black_metal_fan_mallcore.jpg

waldorphPRS41
12-01-2008, 02:02 AM
Actually it's a Christian symbol.
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/crosses/peter.html
http://prorege-forum.com/messages/776.html

When non-Christians use it it doesn't really mean anything, they're just being disrespectful.
Upside down cross is not a Christian symbol at all. It's the opposite in fact. I'm a Christian and been raised in church my whole life and my dad's a pastor. I'm just not retarded like alot of other people.

technicolour
12-01-2008, 02:02 AM
So far Pulling Teeth is the only band I can tolerate. Most bands I find in any genre are a lot better when they do it subtley...

saxaxe
12-01-2008, 02:08 AM
Good thread.

Speaking of Pulling Teeth, http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9inzBm9Y-z0
I think user: SadistNation was present when this was filmed.
He probably was. That's The Charm City Art Space. Fucking love it there.

nz_matt
12-01-2008, 02:10 AM
Upside down cross is not a Christian symbol at all. It's the opposite in fact. I'm a Christian and been raised in church my whole life and my dad's a pastor. I'm just not retarded like alot of other people.

"The inverted cross nearby a Roman Catholic Pope is the sign of the Fisherman, Peter, who was crucified upside down. This use by the Roman Catholic Pope goes back in ancient history to the 1st century. This valid Christian use of the inverted cross, pre-dates contemporary thinking that an upside down cross is always associated with Satanism, similar to a black mass. It is in fact, old Christian symbol for the Martyrdom of St. Peter. The inverted cross has no meaning at all to religious Satanists."

http://bibleprobe.com/invertedcross.jpg

waldorphPRS41
12-01-2008, 02:14 AM
Ok, I get that. It may be what it initially meant but it isn't associated with it anymore and Satanist/Atheist use the upside down cross as an anti-Christian meaning. I'm not trying to start an arguement and I think we can agree on what I said. :)

Edit: Alright there is a picture now. Maybe Catholics still use it some because they pray to St. Peter and all that. I don't know as much about Catholicism because it's kind of does its own thing when it comes to Saints and all the symbolism.

nz_matt
12-01-2008, 02:33 AM
Yeah, I probably didn't make it clear enough originally. I was just pointing out that it's not really a symbol for any particular organised group or religion, it's just used by non-Christians to be disrespectful to Christianity. And was originally used as a Christian symbol.

It's amazing how many idiots there are who use inverted crosses, like have them tattooed etc but don't know that it was originally the Cross of St Peter.

SadistNation
12-01-2008, 06:34 AM
Good thread.

Speaking of Pulling Teeth, http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9inzBm9Y-z0
I think user: SadistNation was present when this was filmed.

I AM!!!! i've checked youtube and their myspace almost everyday since when it was shot, it has been sooooo long. That was so much fun.

12shinn21
12-01-2008, 08:53 AM
I AM!!!! i've checked youtube and their myspace almost everyday since when it was shot, it has been sooooo long. That was so much fun.
Are you in the clip?

If so you'd better be either in the pile on or stomping jesus.

punkforlife93
12-01-2008, 12:51 PM
Everyone always flames Christian bands, so...

Atheist based bands have no sense of purpose; they exist to make what I believe is crappy music and have no positive impression on others lives. Not to mention, I haven't heard a single one that I like in particular.

STABxYOU
12-01-2008, 01:20 PM
Ok, I get that. It may be what it initially meant but it isn't associated with it anymore and Satanist/Atheist use the upside down cross as an anti-Christian meaning. I'm not trying to start an arguement and I think we can agree on what I said. :)

Most atheists don't actually bother with anti-Christian imagery. We have bigger concerns then any specific form of superstition. ;)

Anyways, does Shai Hulud count? What about every crust punk band ever?

There's lots of secular music, but not really much in the way of atheist bands. I guess materialism/rationalism isn't very easy to write songs about. Not every anti-religious/anti-clerical song is atheist.

SadistNation
12-01-2008, 01:21 PM
so you're saying that music that doesn't worship a "god" is crappy music and has no purpose?
that's a really awesome way at looking at things


and yeah i'm in the piles and walking over jesus, and i'm pretty sure just about every crust band counts ha. And yeah there are many bands who don't outrightly say that they are atheist, it's more of an inferred thing, i know of more bands who don't have lyrics about religion than who do. I prefer the bands that don't because i don't enjoy people preaching to me

punkforlife93
12-01-2008, 05:41 PM
so you're saying that music that doesn't worship a "god" is crappy music and has no purpose?

No, I'm saying that Anti-Christian/Anti-God music is generally crappy and has no purpose. I have no problem with music not worshipping God, but I have a problem with music degrading and belittling God, as it is almost always gory, has to do with tasteless things, and is pointless.

zayG
12-01-2008, 07:07 PM
Everyone always flames Christian bands, so...

Atheist based bands have no sense of purpose; they exist to make what I believe is crappy music and have no positive impression on others lives. Not to mention, I haven't heard a single one that I like in particular.
cool

kill yourself

JxD
12-01-2008, 07:19 PM
No, I'm saying that Anti-Christian/Anti-God music is generally crappy and has no purpose. I have no problem with music not worshipping God, but I have a problem with music degrading and belittling God, as it is almost always gory, has to do with tasteless things, and is pointless.

Ha, that's an interesting statement.

Minor Threat- Filler

What happened to you? you're not the same something in your head made a violent change it's in your head filler you call it religion you're full of **** was she really worth it? she cost you your life you'll never leave her side she's gonna be your wife it's in your head filler you call it romance you're full of **** your brain is clay what's going on? you picked up a bible and now you're gone it's in your head filler you call it religion you're full of **** filler.


Wow, a song degrading religion that has no gore! Amazing, somehow it's also manages to not be tasteless or pointless because they are singing about a topic that is dear to them. Perhaps a crust band will have said "gory" lyrics.

From Ashes Rise- Divine Reich

The illusion of blind faith keeps blind faith alive. No need to mention
the nonbelievers, there's only so much room. But now the rapture is here,
an end to the reign of bastards and saints, Christians and turmoil,
an end to their reign.

Hey, it's also not gory, I feel so special to have found a couple songs that manage to criticize religion intelligently, because allegedly no body is capable of doing that.

Garden_Of_Light
12-01-2008, 10:13 PM
The Carrier - No Love Can Save Me.

fltlll
12-01-2008, 10:47 PM
Has anyone mentioned Crossbearer (formerly the Twilight of Idols)? They're the best atheist hardcore band I've ever heard, and they're INSANELY atheist... All their songs are about it.

Very well written, simply amazing. Big influence on my band too.

IcePh0enix
12-01-2008, 11:18 PM
I know it's kind of off topic but can you guys recommend me some Buddhist hardcore? :p:

Does anybody else listen to music regardless of the band's ideals? I don't care if Underoath is Christian or not, I don't care if Bad Brains is homophobic, I don't dislike black metal because of its lyrical content (I just dislike it in general), I listen to music based on how good the band is.

JxD
12-01-2008, 11:30 PM
The closest thing I've heard of when it comes to "Buddhist Hardcore" is one of the members of The First Step being a Buddhist. http://www.myspace.com/thefirststep

technicolour
12-02-2008, 12:48 AM
The Carrier - No Love Can Save Me.

Eh, wouldn't really consider it all that athiest, I mean I can see why they would be..but at the same time, I get this vibe...Just me though.

nz_matt
12-02-2008, 01:18 AM
Everyone always flames Christian bands, so...

Atheist based bands have no sense of purpose; they exist to make what I believe is crappy music and have no positive impression on others lives. Not to mention, I haven't heard a single one that I like in particular.
I'm not going to speak for every atheist band or band with atheist members, but the point of many bands is to speak out against the virus, the poison of the mind that is religion.

Now GET. THE. FUCK. OUT.

Okeefe Is Legit
12-02-2008, 01:33 AM
Everyone always flames Christian bands, so...

Atheist based bands have no sense of purpose; they exist to make what I believe is crappy music and have no positive impression on others lives. Not to mention, I haven't heard a single one that I like in particular.

You're almost as bad as the people who flame christian bands.
Everyone has the right to like whatever music they want, even if it conflicts with your ideas. This isn't 16th century England, ya know :p:

As for me, I find it somewhat difficult to listen to music I don't necessarily agree with, so athiest based music isn't my cup of tea.

SadistNation
12-02-2008, 07:35 AM
Has anyone mentioned Crossbearer (formerly the Twilight of Idols)? They're the best atheist hardcore band I've ever heard, and they're INSANELY atheist... All their songs are about it.

Very well written, simply amazing. Big influence on my band too.

haven't heard that band in a long time ha, good listen though, didn't know they were, never payed too much attention.

ralph wiggum
12-02-2008, 07:42 AM
ceremony

Garden_Of_Light
12-02-2008, 08:11 AM
Eh, wouldn't really consider it all that athiest, I mean I can see why they would be..but at the same time, I get this vibe...Just me though.


'All that I've worked for and all the friends I've made are just as useless as hoping a God might come save me'

Ok, it's not Atheist in the way Ceremony are, but it's also more intelligent.

+}-136-{+
12-02-2008, 08:35 AM
Everyone always flames Christian bands, so...

Atheist based bands have no sense of purpose; they exist to make what I believe is crappy music and have no positive impression on others lives. Not to mention, I haven't heard a single one that I like in particular.

Um... Wow, just wow. This post fails on so many levels.

No, I'm saying that Anti-Christian/Anti-God music is generally crappy and has no purpose. I have no problem with music not worshipping God, but I have a problem with music degrading and belittling God, as it is almost always gory, has to do with tasteless things, and is pointless.

Dear god. Cranking the retardedness level up a notch eh? Or maybe two, or three, or four...

recklessnick
12-02-2008, 12:35 PM
comeback kid.

christian music is generally crappy man, except as i lay dying

IcePh0enix
12-02-2008, 04:17 PM
There are way better christian bands then As I Lay Dying.

I think that some Athiest bands can be hateful and degrading which I think is stupid, but I don't mind music that encourages open mindedness and thinking for yourself. It's just like athiests in general, I'm already with them thinking for themselves and believing what they want to, but when they tell me my beliefs are wrong and I'm ignorant that pisses me off.

But once again, I don't listen to bands based on their beliefs, I listen to them if they play good music.

Exxer
12-02-2008, 07:46 PM
Everyone always flames Christian bands, so...

Atheist based bands have no sense of purpose; they exist to make what I believe is crappy music and have no positive impression on others lives. Not to mention, I haven't heard a single one that I like in particular.
I've found atheism to be much more positive than Christianity. But maybe that's just me.



On topic, Most Precious Blood = <3

SadistNation
12-02-2008, 11:26 PM
read some Nietzsche and you will definitely see that atheism is more posi than christianity...

recklessnick
12-03-2008, 03:51 AM
There are way better christian bands then As I Lay Dying.

I think that some Athiest bands can be hateful and degrading which I think is stupid, but I don't mind music that encourages open mindedness and thinking for yourself.

first statement is wrong, second statement is right. but im an atheist so it doesnt really bother me. i love songs that point out the harm of religion in a social or political sense like how strike anywhere does it.

+}-136-{+
12-03-2008, 11:12 AM
first statement is wrong, second statement is right. but im an atheist so it doesnt really bother me. i love songs that point out the harm of religion in a social or political sense like how strike anywhere does it.

Seeing as it's a subjective statement, no, it can't really be wrong. I'm pretty sure there are better. Though they aren't a Christian band (as far as I know, only their guitarist/vocalist/lyricist is), Thrice is infinitely more interesting than As I Lay Dying. You could do worse though. Lyrically, As I Lay Dying aren't bad. You don't have to be a Christian to connect with the lyrics, as they touch upon themes like personal struggles and a search for identity, which I'm very sure are subjects atheists can relate to. In fact, the lyrics of the Christian bands I've encountered (Norma Jean, As I Lay Dying, Flyleaf, Beneath the Sky, Thrice, - the band itself isn't Christian but the guitarist/vocalist/lyricist is) are all pretty thoughtful and intelligent. They're hardly about going to church and praying to and loving God. Honestly, I'd rather take a Christian band with thoughtful and well-written lyrics as opposed to an Atheist band with juvenile lyrics about burning bibles and flipping crosses upside down.

What matters more to me really, is not a band's faith (or lack therof) but rather how they approach it or express it. There are actually intelligent, open-minded Christians out there, believe it or not. Not all of them are bible-thumping fanatics. Same way as there are hypocritical, intolerant Atheists.

read some Nietzsche and you will definitely see that atheism is more posi than christianity...

EDIT: Frigging quote crap.
In a broader perspective, I agree with that statement. There are a lot of terrible things that wouldn't have happened if not for religion, such as the Crusades and the religious wars going on in the Middle East right now. On the flip side, I wouldn't recommend reading Nietzsche. I'm not familiar with his work but I thinkThe God Delusion written by Richard Dawkins would be a lot easier to understand and more helpful in regards to the modern world.

Wow, that was a lengthy post. I hope some of you guys actually read that. Anyways, before I continue on with my homework, here are some links to check out. Some example of good lyrics by both Christian bands and Atheist bands (The band don't announce themselves as atheists but it is clear from their lyrics that they're not going to church anytime soon though. They touch on religion in one way or another though). You guys distinguish which is which.

"An Ocean Between Us"- As I Lay Dying (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858677927/)

"Heathen Temple" - Pig Destroyer (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858664822/)

"Blueprints for Future Homes" - Norma Jean (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858614379/)

"All That's Left" - Thrice (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858485045/)

"No Heroes" - Converge (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858632208/)


EDIT: Frigging quote crap.

SadistNation
12-03-2008, 11:47 AM
On the flip side, I wouldn't recommend reading Nietzsche. I'm not familiar with his work but I thinkThe God Delusion written by Richard Dawkins would be a lot easier to understand and more helpful in regards to the modern world.

Wow, that was a lengthy post. I hope some of you guys actually read that.

yeah, i read it ha. And yes i agree that Nietzsche is quite difficult. I haven't read the God Delusion but i hear good things, so yeah that's a good rec, i would also recommend Why I Am Not A Christian by Bertrand Russel, that also explains Christianity in not-so-posi ways.

STABxYOU
12-03-2008, 12:54 PM
Wow, that was a lengthy post. I hope some of you guys actually read that. Anyways, before I continue on with my homework, here are some links to check out. Some example of good lyrics by both Christian bands and Atheist bands (The band don't announce themselves as atheists but it is clear from their lyrics that they're not going to church anytime soon though. They touch on religion in one way or another though). You guys distinguish which is which.

"An Ocean Between Us"- As I Lay Dying (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858677927/)

"Heathen Temple" - Pig Destroyer (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858664822/)

"Blueprints for Future Homes" - Norma Jean (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858614379/)

"All That's Left" - Thrice (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858485045/)

"No Heroes" - Converge (http://songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858632208/)


EDIT: Frigging quote crap.

Don't confuse secular with atheist. ;)

When PxDx starts writing songs about abandoning superstition they'll be an atheist band, until then they're just secular.

+}-136-{+
12-03-2008, 01:09 PM
Don't confuse secular with atheist. ;)

When PxDx starts writing songs about abandoning superstition they'll be an atheist band, until then they're just secular.

You didn't read the lyrics didn't you?

STABxYOU
12-03-2008, 01:59 PM
^ Haha, no, I thought I remembered them, but it was a different song. -.-'

+}-136-{+
12-03-2008, 02:04 PM
^ Haha, no, I thought I remembered them, but it was a different song. -.-'

That explains. I saw you list Pig Destroyer as one of your favorite bands on your profile so I was somewhat puzzled by your comment. I also happened to notice you had Insect Warfare on there as well. I ****ing love 'em. Just had to point that out. :p:

STABxYOU
12-03-2008, 02:29 PM
^ Yup. Grind/crust/skramzfag here. Insect Warfare are amazing, I need to finish my collection.

Whenever I think of Pig Destroyer lyrics it's always the more emo gone creepy songs I think of.

SadistNation
12-03-2008, 04:10 PM
^ Yup. Grind/crust/skramzfag here. Insect Warfare are amazing, I need to finish my collection.

Whenever I think of Pig Destroyer lyrics it's always the more emo gone creepy songs I think of.

you collect Insect Warfare? What do you have?

i only have World Extermination so far....but they are my fav. Grind, i'm trying to collect all of their stuff

makefunoflucky
12-03-2008, 07:02 PM
I'm going to go with mostly everyone else and say pulling teeth and ceremony. They're two of my current favorites period really.

Craigo
12-03-2008, 07:08 PM
read some Nietzsche and you will definitely see that atheism is more posi than christianity...
:)

Nietzsche is barely positive though :p:

STABxYOU
12-03-2008, 07:09 PM
you collect Insect Warfare? What do you have?

i only have World Extermination so far....but they are my fav. Grind, i'm trying to collect all of their stuff

World Extermination and Evolved Into Obliteration.
Must. Find. MOARRR.

nashawa
12-03-2008, 08:25 PM
from high atop my crucifix, i preach about the triple six

and i dont understand any more of the lyrics
except for the chorus

Atheist Anthem - Leftover Crack

andyq777
12-03-2008, 10:26 PM
the devil wears prada

SadistNation
12-03-2008, 11:11 PM
:)

Nietzsche is barely positive though :p:

very true, but.....i think you get the point, ha ;)

and i just got back from the library, i got The God Delusion, another book and 6 Romantic / Contemporary cds, mostly Dvořák and Bartók

dminishedthingy
12-03-2008, 11:15 PM
Or the band Atheist?
:haha i came into this thread expecting some hardcore jazz as well

TBC Guitarist
12-04-2008, 12:57 AM
Die Young.

BassFishin
12-04-2008, 01:21 AM
No, I'm saying that Anti-Christian/Anti-God music is generally crappy and has no purpose. I have no problem with music not worshipping God, but I have a problem with music degrading and belittling God, as it is almost always gory, has to do with tasteless things, and is pointless.

i gotcha. i mean, i'm atheist, but i dont go around knockin on people who believe in god. and if i did i would understand why you would be offended. therefore, i don't like music that contains that sort of material.

JxD
12-04-2008, 01:22 AM
Die Young.

It was sweet, when I saw them they refused to play an encore unless everyone laid down on the floor and "ran" in circles. Not everyone partook in the tomfoolery, but just enough for them to play one more song.

saxaxe
12-04-2008, 01:26 AM
from high atop my crucifix, i preach about the triple six

and i dont understand any more of the lyrics
except for the chorus

Atheist Anthem - Leftover Crack
****, how'd I forget them?

ALL THE KIDS IN THE STRAIGHTEDGE SCENE ARE IN THE BASEMENT HUFFING GASOLINE YOU'RE. DEAD. DEAD. DEAD.

STABxYOU
12-04-2008, 02:30 AM
i gotcha. i mean, i'm atheist, but i dont go around knockin on people who believe in god. and if i did i would understand why you would be offended. therefore, i don't like music that contains that sort of material.

Because questioning superstition is deeply offensive.

Okeefe Is Legit
12-04-2008, 02:34 AM
Because questioning superstition is deeply offensive.

Because people like you are extremely close minded.

STABxYOU
12-04-2008, 02:54 AM
Because people like you are extremely close minded.

It's not an issue of a closed mind or an open mind. It's merely the simplest solution to the problem. Adding gods to the universe only complicates things. Natural explanations are much better then supernatual, the universe works fine without chalking somethings up to magic. People can believe whatever they like. I just don't want magical thinking and superstition having such power over a so called secular society.

punkforlife93
12-04-2008, 05:02 AM
It's not an issue of a closed mind or an open mind. It's merely the simplest solution to the problem. Adding gods to the universe only complicates things. Natural explanations are much better then supernatual, the universe works fine without chalking somethings up to magic. People can believe whatever they like. I just don't want magical thinking and superstition having such power over a so called secular society.

If we didn't want complications, then we wouldn't have invented science. The fact is, without God, everything IS more complicated, because there are a horde of other extremely unlikely explanations. And the fact is, there are far too many things in the world that are supernatural - magic, if you will ;) - to simply write God off that easily.

nz_matt
12-04-2008, 05:22 AM
lots of stuff
Re: immaturity, simplicity and whatnot of some lyrics, I don't really care. Sometimes I just want to run around and jump on people and have some fun. I'm sure if I spoke to some of these band members they could present an intelligent argument for their beliefs, it's just not necessarily the time or the place for it.

Also, I haven't read any Nietzsche, I've been meaning to and eventually will. "The God Delusion" would be more aptly titled "Non-Belief for Beginners", imo. It's not a bad book, and I think most people can get at least something from it, but it's not hugely in-depth and unless you're uneducated or ignorant you'll find yourself reading a lot of stuff you already know. Still worth a read though, Richard Dawkins is cool.


If we didn't want complications, then we wouldn't have invented science. The fact is, without God, everything IS more complicated, because there are a horde of other extremely unlikely explanations. And the fact is, there are far too many things in the world that are supernatural - magic, if you will ;) - to simply write God off that easily.
Here's a joke.

Q: What's more unlikely than a naturally occurring universe with appropriate conditions to foster the development of intelligent life?

A: A naturally occurring creator of said universe.


Well that wasn't a very funny joke (just informative), I'll give it another go, here's another one...

YOUR LIFE.

+}-136-{+
12-04-2008, 07:22 AM
World Extermination and Evolved Into Obliteration.
Must. Find. MOARRR.

When you say collect, do you mean you have the actual physical copies? If so, then damn, that's awesome. I'd kill to have any of their non-split stuff on vinyl(or CD, or on tape, or on...).

SadistNation
12-04-2008, 07:49 AM
Because questioning superstition is deeply offensive.
if i could giggle over the internet, i would be in this context.

i liked this a lot.


and nzMatt, i just finished The Anti-Christ by Nietzsche, it is an extremely hard read. He references a vast amount of other books and much of the bible (new and old), many books of which i haven't read. But there is still some amazing things to be read in it, i highly recommend it for anyone looking for a challenging critque of Christianity and the symbol of "God" itself.

recklessnick
12-04-2008, 12:27 PM
no. as i lay dying>everything else.

JxD
12-04-2008, 01:29 PM
And the fact is, there are far too many things in the world that are supernatural - magic, if you will ;) - to simply write God off that easily.

I couldn't agree with this any more. Have any of you seen Criss Angel? If the Rastafarian's are wrong and Haile Selassie wasn't the second incarnation of Christ, then Criss Angel surely is.

BassFishin
12-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Because questioning superstition is deeply offensive.

it is to the people that believe in it. i mean just because they have a different view on that sort of thing doesn't make them idiots, or bad people for that matter. shouldn't treat them any different

edit: that is, unless they push their beliefs on you. then you can treat them differently :)

however, vise versa applies here. if you go around to someone who is religious and you push your atheist beliefs (or dis beliefs...heh, pun...) , then they reserve the right to label you as ignorant.

i stand by my original statement. i don't believe in god, and that's no one else's business (with the exception of this forum, because i needed to make the statement in order to support a point)

p.s. i'm enjoying this topic very much

Craigo
12-04-2008, 04:26 PM
very true, but.....i think you get the point, ha ;)

and i just got back from the library, i got The God Delusion, another book and 6 Romantic / Contemporary cds, mostly Dvořák and Bartók
Definately. Nietzsche is incredible.

I've had 3 people now ask me about my philosophy blogs, so I should make some more next year, and it should be about the STD infected madman himself :)

The God Delusion is also a fantastic read. Very compelling.

Craigo
12-04-2008, 04:33 PM
If we didn't want complications, then we wouldn't have invented science. The fact is, without God, everything IS more complicated, because there are a horde of other extremely unlikely explanations. And the fact is, there are far too many things in the world that are supernatural - magic, if you will - to simply write God off that easily.
Your argument is incoherent and baseless.
it is to the people that believe in it. i mean just because they have a different view on that sort of thing doesn't make them idiots, or bad people for that matter. shouldn't treat them any different
Ohh dear God! Please! Do anything but express healthy doubt! That's monstrous!
however, vise versa applies here. if you go around to someone who is religious and you push your atheist beliefs (or dis beliefs...heh, pun...) , then they reserve the right to label you as ignorant.
You have the right to either; A. Call him an asshole or B. Have the right to feel victimised or C. Engage in debate. Depends on the scenario and what sort of person you are. But you don't have the right (what am I on about? I don't believe in intrinsic rights) basis to call them ignorant.

Okeefe Is Legit
12-05-2008, 01:03 AM
I call shenanigans on quite a few people in this thread.

If you went into a thread about christianity and said that you yourself were an athiest and someone posted "you're ****ing stupid to not believe in a god" I know that all of you would dismiss this person as stupid and ignorant. This in itself makes a lot of you look like hypocrites.

_EnigmA_
12-05-2008, 06:52 AM
I went to church last sunday and i love Pulling Teeth..

what does that make me?

STABxYOU
12-05-2008, 11:34 AM
If we didn't want complications, then we wouldn't have invented science. The fact is, without God, everything IS more complicated, because there are a horde of other extremely unlikely explanations. And the fact is, there are far too many things in the world that are supernatural - magic, if you will ;) - to simply write God off that easily.

As a materialist I would argue nothing in the universe is supernatural. Only yet to be understood. Let's face it, there was a time everyone just accepted the sun was a magical chariot with wheels of fire; we now understand it's a self contained thermonuclear chain reaction. The sun didn't stop being magical when we figured out how it works, it was always an understandable, natural phenomenon.


Q: What's more unlikely than a naturally occurring universe with appropriate conditions to foster the development of intelligent life?

A: A naturally occurring creator of said universe.

Well, it's true... just not very funny. :p

it is to the people that believe in it. i mean just because they have a different view on that sort of thing doesn't make them idiots, or bad people for that matter. shouldn't treat them any different

edit: that is, unless they push their beliefs on you. then you can treat them differently :)

however, vise versa applies here. if you go around to someone who is religious and you push your atheist beliefs (or dis beliefs...heh, pun...) , then they reserve the right to label you as ignorant.

I call shenanigans on quite a few people in this thread.

If you went into a thread about christianity and said that you yourself were an athiest and someone posted "you're ****ing stupid to not believe in a god" I know that all of you would dismiss this person as stupid and ignorant. This in itself makes a lot of you look like hypocrites.

People can label me however they like. People can believe whatever they like. Some beliefs are wrong or silly or just plain nonsensical. If someone who believes in nonsense wishes to label me as ignorant for not accepting their delusions, I can deal with it.
Sometimes even non-stupid people believe in alien contact, gods, spirits or other silliness.

IcePh0enix
12-05-2008, 04:20 PM
I went to church last sunday and i love Pulling Teeth..

what does that make me?
Yeah me too :confused:.

Oh wait, that just means I'm a Christian that listens to good music.

Craigo
12-05-2008, 07:06 PM
I call shenanigans on quite a few people in this thread.

If you went into a thread about christianity and said that you yourself were an athiest and someone posted "you're ****ing stupid to not believe in a god" I know that all of you would dismiss this person as stupid and ignorant. This in itself makes a lot of you look like hypocrites.
Bullcrap. Whilst I dislike religion and it's negative influence, I don't give a crap what sort of spirituality they belong to as long as they don't step on my borders.
I went to church last sunday and i love Pulling Teeth..

what does that make me?
A cool dude for not being put off by their lyrics.

nz_matt
12-05-2008, 10:35 PM
What have I started here...

Garden_Of_Light
12-05-2008, 11:01 PM
This arrived today.
http://www.blueapplemusic.co.uk/busdetails/images/BLACKDESIGN2B.jpg

nz_matt
12-05-2008, 11:38 PM
The Atheist Bus Campaign is pretty cool. I'd wear the white shirt that says "there's probably no god". Definitely wouldn't wear the one that says "there's no god" though. That's lame.

Okeefe Is Legit
12-06-2008, 12:13 AM
Bullcrap. I dislike religion and it's negative influence, I don't give a crap what sort of spirituality they belong to as long as they don't step on my borders.

A cool dude for not being put off by their lyrics.

How is having a reason to strive for a morally righteous life negative?

95% of christians don't act like the bible stomping stereotype everyone views.

zayG
12-06-2008, 12:27 AM
I call shenanigans on quite a few people in this thread.

If you went into a thread about christianity and said that you yourself were an athiest and someone posted "you're ****ing stupid to not believe in a god" I know that all of you would dismiss this person as stupid and ignorant. This in itself makes a lot of you look like hypocrites.
except its common knowledge that any well educated person does not believe in god

i will never push my beliefs on people for 99% of things, including straight edge, but when it comes to religion, i would like to try my hardest to remove it from this earth to prevent any more destruction

zayG
12-06-2008, 12:28 AM
How is having a reason to strive for a morally righteous life negative?

95% of christians don't act like the bible stomping stereotype everyone views.
having a morally righteous life has nothing to do with religion, and saying that is probably one of the most offensive, and ignorant things you can possibly say

Manos15
12-06-2008, 12:38 AM
except its common knowledge that any well educated person does not believe in god

umm . . .

zayG
12-06-2008, 12:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related

waldorphPRS41
12-06-2008, 12:53 AM
Man, what happened in here.
Actually on topic. As far as Atheist hardcore bands go, I feel with them the way most people feel about Christian bands most the time. If they make good music that's awesome I just don't like having something shoved in my face the whole time.

recklessnick
12-06-2008, 12:53 AM
whats the point of argueing over this?
christians cant convince atheist to be religious in a forum
and an atheist cant convince a christian to be less religious in a forum

Okeefe Is Legit
12-06-2008, 02:53 AM
having a morally righteous life has nothing to do with religion, and saying that is probably one of the most offensive, and ignorant things you can possibly say

The ten commandments
/argument


And I never said they had better morals than anyone, it's just that they have yet another reason to live life to the best of their abilities.

except its common knowledge that any well educated person does not believe in god

This statement alone gives me enough reason to take nothing you say seriously.

nz_matt
12-06-2008, 11:01 PM
The ten commandments
/argument


And I never said they had better morals than anyone, it's just that they have yet another reason to live life to the best of their abilities.
You should read The God Delusion, it has a good chapter about this.

gopherthegreat
12-06-2008, 11:25 PM
except its common knowledge that any well educated person does not believe in god
:haha

Toastbot
12-07-2008, 12:06 AM
Upside down cross is not a Christian symbol at all. It's the opposite in fact. I'm a Christian and been raised in church my whole life and my dad's a pastor. I'm just not retarded like alot of other people.

You're such a brilliant man, you invented a new word!

nz_matt
12-07-2008, 12:08 AM
:haha
I think he was being facetious.

Manos15
12-07-2008, 12:28 AM
You're such a brilliant man, you invented a new word!

Join Date: Nov 2008

IcePh0enix
12-07-2008, 01:06 AM
except its common knowledge that any well educated person does not believe in god

i will never push my beliefs on people for 99% of things, including straight edge, but when it comes to religion, i would like to try my hardest to remove it from this earth to prevent any more destruction
Wow, someone tells you that they believe they are living a morally righteous life and you say that's offensive, then you say anyone that believes in god isn't well educated. That's probably one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

zayG
12-07-2008, 01:09 AM
Wow, someone tells you that they believe they are living a morally righteous life and you say that's offensive, then you say anyone that believes in god isn't well educated. That's probably one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
its offensive to state that a morally righteous life is just a by product of religion....

IcePh0enix
12-07-2008, 01:23 AM
Yeah but that's just what he believes, but I do think it was offensive. Saying it's common knowledge that anyone who believes in God is not well educated is extremely offensive and just plain ignorant. You basically just called billions of people not well educated. I go to school, I get a B average so I would definetly say I am well educated.

SadistNation
12-07-2008, 01:26 AM
Yeah but that's just what he believes, but I do think it was offensive. Saying it's common knowledge that anyone who believes in God is not well educated is extremely offensive and just plain ignorant. You basically just called billions of people not well educated. I go to school, I get a B average so I would definetly say I am well educated.

Ppfftt!! B average? WWEEAAKK!!





Jokes........

tomohawkjoe
12-07-2008, 01:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related
WHY WONT HE HELP STARVING PEOPLEZZ!!! Man, I'm not a christian but I do hate it when the only excuse people who try to argue against a higher being is WHY WONT HE HELP SO AND SO. **** its like they think he is suppose to be some miracle cure. **** ME but why don't you help them. Why not go out and ****ing do something about it instead of sitting on your ass and complaining about some being you don't even believe in.[/rant]

Okeefe Is Legit
12-07-2008, 04:52 AM
its offensive to state that a morally righteous life is just a by product of religion....

I didn't intend for my post to insinuate that/
I'm just stating, as before, that religion helps once you live the life. Most of the violence comes when beliefs conflict and people act stupid about it.

recklessnick
12-07-2008, 05:03 AM
believing in god doesnt prove intelligence. it just proves naiveness. plain and simple. its not always a negative term either.

zayG
12-07-2008, 03:45 PM
believing in god doesnt prove intelligence. it just proves naiveness. plain and simple. its not always a negative term either.
probably a better term and more or less what i was looking for.

pretty sure im laughing my ass off at how much i offended everyone :rolleyes:

tomohawkjoe
12-07-2008, 03:49 PM
You guys better stop... or....
yo-you'll go to HELL!!!!

Heh, Not Me, I'm athiest, I'm immune budy

heh heh

no..no one is
*sprays holy water on screen*

BassFishin
12-07-2008, 04:44 PM
Bullcrap. Whilst I dislike religion and it's negative influence, I don't give a crap what sort of spirituality they belong to as long as they don't step on my borders.



this much we can both agree on