all your Big Nu-Metal Questions answered...


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shaketherim
06-01-2004, 07:21 PM
I've been a fan of Nu-metal almost since it started (well probably not, but since I started liking rock), and that may have something to do with that I like almost all types of rock. But what I have to ask is this. What do so many people have against Nu-Metal? I see so many people saying, "Oh man Nu-Metal sucks. Nu-Metal bands can suck my ****." But most people don't really seem to have a reason for it. I just want to hear from people who like it and why and the reason why people who don't like it don't. I'm not saying it's wrong to like it, but I just want to know what your reasoning is. And please, if you're going to post a reply, don't say "Nu-Metal sucks. Period", because that solves nothing.

realiztik
06-01-2004, 07:25 PM
Most people write that because it's not an Mtv thing anymore. Mtv tells them what to think. Follow the flock....

zakk_wylde4
06-01-2004, 07:30 PM
I personally don't like it because they don't know how to play their instruments, they drop their guitars 3 or 4 steps. And they wear stupid masks, they are like a bunch of little kids at halloween, slipknot just disgusts me

PapeR CuTTT
06-01-2004, 07:31 PM
^^Slipknot isnt the only nu-metal band....

thebenj
06-01-2004, 07:31 PM
yeah!
the same thing happened 20 years ago with "hair metal" and 10 years ago with "grunge". point being, if the MUSIC is good a band can enjoy longevity. if the music sucks...they(more than likely) will burn out as one hit wonders. people will ALWAYS ***** about the state of popular music. the important thing is to NEVER listen to the status quo...listen and support whatever YOU the listener likes and to hell withwhat anyone else thinks.

shaketherim
06-01-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by zakk_wylde4
I personally don't like it because they don't know how to play their instruments, they drop their guitars 3 or 4 steps. And they wear stupid masks, they are like a bunch of little kids at halloween, slipknot just disgusts me

You sound more like you are describing Slipknot, not any other bands (btw Slipknot does know how to play their instruments anyway), but the way you're saying it, you think Slipknot is the only Nu Metal band.

Bloody Moron
06-01-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by zakk_wylde4
I personally don't like it because they don't know how to play their instruments, they drop their guitars 3 or 4 steps. And they wear stupid masks, they are like a bunch of little kids at halloween, slipknot just disgusts me
Your talking about Slipknot, this topic is on ALL nu metal not one band. What about all they other nu metal bands who dont "wear stupid masks" or "are a bunch of little kids at halloween"?

PapeR CuTTT
06-01-2004, 07:35 PM
^exactly

thebenj
06-01-2004, 07:40 PM
p.s. as far as slipknot goes, i can take them or leave them (personally). but i cannot critisize bands that have 3 solid selling albums and legions of fans that will do anything for them. untill you can say the same...

6slip6knot6
06-01-2004, 10:31 PM
dude, nu metal rules. probably my favorite genre of rock/metal. i love it so much because detuned bass and guitar is alot more fun to listen to, and i prefer more heavier music. i also listen to nu metal because it gives me certain feelings, and most of the lyrics i can relate to in some way. well, i cant explain it that easily, kinda hard. \m/

6slip6knot6
06-01-2004, 10:33 PM
also, people who dont like nu metal either never gave it a chance, or just never appealed to them in any way. or, like i think most of them, are just pricks.

6strung
06-01-2004, 11:34 PM
The difference between 'metal' and 'nu meta'l is the lack of hair sprayed and teased, leather wearing, homosexual singing, i've had every vd possible, the solo is the only part of the song that is important, now out of work and living with my parents but i'm still a rock star because my tattoo says so people. 'Hair metal' blows. I'd rather listen to nothing than that. Those are just some of the differences!

mr. poopypants
06-01-2004, 11:53 PM
i don't know why

shaketherim
06-02-2004, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by mr. poopypants
i don't know why

I think I asked you not to post if you were going to post something like this. You didn't even tell me if you liked it or not!

saddam
06-02-2004, 12:59 PM
dude you say slipknot don't know how to play their instruments? That's ****in stupid! Mick and James are great guitarists!

scheck006
06-02-2004, 01:17 PM
how can you say everybody hates nu-metal? it is the mainstream right???

I guess you could say everyone hates metal because I never ever hear of it outside of maybe ug and my freinds...

RHCPhysco7
06-02-2004, 05:16 PM
^hahahaha nu metal....maninstream.......ever watch mtv lately?(which stands for mainstream television now)

nu metal is really a mixed bag lately. it started off greeat with the deftones and Korn but then more and more bands come out and they all start sounding the same. trapt is ok and smile empty soul isnt that great. right now id have to say Godsmack is the best n metal band out there right now

imback_inblack
06-02-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by thebenj
yeah!
the same thing happened 20 years ago with "hair metal" and 10 years ago with "grunge". point being, if the MUSIC is good a band can enjoy longevity. if the music sucks...they(more than likely) will burn out as one hit wonders. people will ALWAYS ***** about the state of popular music. the important thing is to NEVER listen to the status quo...listen and support whatever YOU the listener likes and to hell withwhat anyone else thinks.

status quo rule, i've been to see them twice in concert :cheers:

edit: and they have nothing to do with nu-metal :bonk:

EarlofGrey
06-02-2004, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by 6slip6knot6
dude, nu metal rules. probably my favorite genre of rock/metal. i love it so much because detuned bass and guitar is alot more fun to listen to, and i prefer more heavier music. i also listen to nu metal because it gives me certain feelings, and most of the lyrics i can relate to in some way. well, i cant explain it that easily, kinda hard. \m/
Oooh, it "gives you certain feelings." How f<e>ucking nice, you doss c<e>unt. Get an intelligent goddam opinion before you open your mouth, get me?

And I, personally, used to be a fan of nu-metal. I believed it was the 'heaviest" music I could find, and got me in an angry/fighty spirit. I felt tough and hardass, and that's what appealed to me. Once I started listening to real metal--early Metallica, Pantera, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Opeth, Morbid Angel, Death, and the like--I realised how simple nu-metal was to play, and how very...light the music was. Simply no one can listen to Nile and then say that Slipknot and Korn are heavy.

Those are my three cents.

spike_8bkp
06-02-2004, 06:34 PM
I used to love nu-metal. LOVE it. It was my favorite genre of music in the entire world, I learned to play every song I could possibly think of. And now, I think it's not as good as I once thought, and I do think that a good deal of it sucks. These are my reasons:
I went to quite a few shows and talked with many of the "musicians" in those bands and I learned quite a bit about them. When I found that a few of these "nu-metal" bands were picked up by labels because of a single song, and that the guitarist had only been playing for something like 9 months before they got signed- it's like "what the hell?!" Anyone could get a record contract if this was this case. And indeed it was. When any two-bit angry kid could pick up an instrument, down tune a guitar, play it loud for a year and get singed to a two-deep label, something has to be fucking wrong.
Granted there are MANY great musicians in nu-metal (i.e. Ryan Martinie, Mick Thompson) and nu-metal is a good way for a musician to make a living, I believe in a thing called dignity, and for a musician with so much talent to be wasted in a band where he can't even used it is, well, a waste. Potential, people - USE IT.

Another reason: Themes. No, they are not all the same, but they all relate to each other almost as close as new hardcore music. Simply put, I grew tired of it. I became a writer, and I wanted my style to evolve past the "everybody hates me, pain is all I know" stage, and I did. Eventually, I grew to dislike the simplistic, uninspired, unoriginal themes of nu-metal (i.e. Adema, Korn, grade8). I also wished to become a more versatile, and technical guitarist. I've always been amazed by guitar solos, and in nu-metal, there are virtually none. I didn't like that, so I went in search of solos, leads, fast, technical runs that I couldn't dream of playing. Well, I found metal.

The fact that nu-metal is overtly popular has rarely, if ever, affected my judgement of it - metal is gaining popularity, and only from an elitist point of view can I find anything wrong with it. Nu-metal is the mainstream public's metal. As long as some pissed off kid has something to scream about, nu-metal will go on. I don't mind it being there. What I do mind is a band such as Disturbed (and please don't get me wrong, they are a good band for what they do) going around saying that they are a great metal band, or little ignorant fourteen year olds going around saying that Korn is better than any band I could ever possibly think of. I was one of those kids once upon a time. What I'd like is for people to smarten up, but this won't happen. What I'd like is for people to NOT take advantage of the music industry and become rich and famous for have virtually no true talent or originality at all, but again, this won't happen. I must let the dice fall where they may, and if this calls for letting some of the greatest musicians in the world go completely unnoticed, so be it.

THAT is why I don't care for nu-metal.

shaketherim
06-02-2004, 06:52 PM
Nice long posts, you've got some good reasons here, I have a few arguments (all of my responses are the non-bolded sections).

Originally posted by spike_8bkp
I used to love nu-metal. LOVE it. It was my favorite genre of music in the entire world, I learned to play every song I could possibly think of. And now, I think it's not as good as I once thought, and I do think that a good deal of it sucks. These are my reasons:
I went to quite a few shows and talked with many of the "musicians" in those bands and I learned quite a bit about them. When I found that a few of these "nu-metal" bands were picked up by labels because of a single song, and that the guitarist had only been playing for something like 9 months before they got signed- it's like "what the hell?!" Anyone could get a record contract if this was this case. And indeed it was. When any two-bit angry kid could pick up an instrument, down tune a guitar, play it loud for a year and get singed to a two-deep label, something has to be fucking wrong.
Granted there are MANY great musicians in nu-metal (i.e. Ryan Martinie, Mick Thompson) and nu-metal is a good way for a musician to make a living, I believe in a thing called dignity, and for a musician with so much talent to be wasted in a band where he can't even used it is, well, a waste. Potential, people - USE IT.

Well I'll give you as much that it's true, there are some talentless bands in the genre. But then again, there are talentless bands in every genre. It's just a fact of music. And even so, if a song makes people feel good, and people enjoy it, maybe the writer doesn't have talent on their instrument, but in songwriting. That's where it comes in that not any angry two-bit kid could do it, you have to have an ability to write songs, and people to like them. And also, latelly, there are more Nu-Metal songs coming out with talent in them. Listen to Slipknot's new album (Vol. 3 TSV) for example, there is a fantastic guitar solo in many of the songs.

Another reason: Themes. No, they are not all the same, but they all relate to each other almost as close as new hardcore music. Simply put, I grew tired of it. I became a writer, and I wanted my style to evolve past the "everybody hates me, pain is all I know" stage, and I did. Eventually, I grew to dislike the simplistic, uninspired, unoriginal themes of nu-metal (i.e. Adema, Korn, grade8). I also wished to become a more versatile, and technical guitarist. I've always been amazed by guitar solos, and in nu-metal, there are virtually none. I didn't like that, so I went in search of solos, leads, fast, technical runs that I couldn't dream of playing. Well, I found metal.

That is just you, not everyone who likes Nu-Metal has that "everyone hates me" stage, I like Nu-Metal just because I like the music, but I still lead a laugh out loud life.

The fact that nu-metal is overtly popular has rarely, if ever, affected my judgement of it - metal is gaining popularity, and only from an elitist point of view can I find anything wrong with it. Nu-metal is the mainstream public's metal. As long as some pissed off kid has something to scream about, nu-metal will go on. I don't mind it being there. What I do mind is a band such as Disturbed (and please don't get me wrong, they are a good band for what they do) going around saying that they are a great metal band, or little ignorant fourteen year olds going around saying that Korn is better than any band I could ever possibly think of. I was one of those kids once upon a time. What I'd like is for people to smarten up, but this won't happen. What I'd like is for people to NOT take advantage of the music industry and become rich and famous for have virtually no true talent or originality at all, but again, this won't happen. I must let the dice fall where they may, and if this calls for letting some of the greatest musicians in the world go completely unnoticed, so be it.

These bands do have originality, or they wouldn't have any fans. And as for true talent, I already explained about that earlier. A little off topic here, but if you want to see no originality and no talent, go to the hip hop and the rap industry. That just pisses me off. There is no talent and no originality in any of those people, and they are becoming rich and famous. Back to the point, they aren't taking advantage of the music industry by becoming famous. It's not like they went up to the music industry and said "We want to be your next number 1 band", they had to get asked by the music industry to be signed. Music industries wouldn't be stupid enough to sign a band with no real talent or originality, because they wouldn't sell. And as for the greatest musicians to go unnoticed, that's another fact of life that has to be dealt with. That's all about being in the right place at the right time, and getting the right oppurtunity.

THAT is why I don't care for nu-metal.

6slip6knot6
06-02-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by EarlofGrey
Oooh, it "gives you certain feelings." How f<e>ucking nice, you doss c<e>unt. Get an intelligent goddam opinion before you open your mouth, get me?

And I, personally, used to be a fan of nu-metal. I believed it was the 'heaviest" music I could find, and got me in an angry/fighty spirit. I felt tough and hardass, and that's what appealed to me. Once I started listening to real metal--early Metallica, Pantera, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Opeth, Morbid Angel, Death, and the like--I realised how simple nu-metal was to play, and how very...light the music was. Simply no one can listen to Nile and then say that Slipknot and Korn are heavy.

Those are my three cents.

yea, arent you a happy camper... where did i insult you or open my mouth?? lol i stated what i think, and what i think is hard to explain. i never said a damn word about true metal, dip****.. get out of this forum and get back into your "real metal". by the way, i DO listen to metallica and various other bits of "real metal", but nu metal happens to be my favorite. my opinion is my opinion, coming in here and bustin **** at people for no reason is foolish. now get lost.

harvestor
06-02-2004, 09:44 PM
if ya wanna know the diff between metal and nu metal, read the thread called

"what is nu metal" started by mr weija, it might be gone, i dunno

rokphoenix
06-03-2004, 01:24 AM
:cheers: spike_8bkp

and i think if you read the metal vs numetal thread it will give yo some ideas as to why people hate or love that genre of music

shaketherim
06-03-2004, 08:14 AM
^^ To both of you, what is nu metal isn't exactly what I want, in case you didn't notice, and to the other one, I tried reading it, and it goes too off topic for me, which is why I started this thread in the first place.

eddibleautopsy
06-03-2004, 08:56 AM
listen to nu metal:rolleyes:

Feelthevayne
06-03-2004, 09:35 AM
well it comes down to opionion and lack of knowing the facts

jaggysnake
06-03-2004, 09:45 AM
Music is music, a lot of people are into music for the wrong reasons, their image, to follow the mainstream or because they're angry or bored. These all lead to ignorant people, most of which either listen to (in britain anyway)

Garage rock
Nu-metal
Pop punk.

This is purely because garage rock was in last year, pop punk is easy listening and 'cool' in 13 year old circles and finally:

Nu metal is the conformist way to differ from mainstream, which makes an alternative mainstream so its a paradox. Same with punk, grunge and metal.

:batman:

numetaldude
06-03-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by spike_8bkp
I used to love nu-metal. LOVE it. It was my favorite genre of music in the entire world, I learned to play every song I could possibly think of. And now, I think it's not as good as I once thought, and I do think that a good deal of it sucks. These are my reasons:
I went to quite a few shows and talked with many of the "musicians" in those bands and I learned quite a bit about them. When I found that a few of these "nu-metal" bands were picked up by labels because of a single song, and that the guitarist had only been playing for something like 9 months before they got signed- it's like "what the hell?!" Anyone could get a record contract if this was this case. And indeed it was. When any two-bit angry kid could pick up an instrument, down tune a guitar, play it loud for a year and get singed to a two-deep label, something has to be ****ing wrong.
Granted there are MANY great musicians in nu-metal (i.e. Ryan Martinie, Mick Thompson) and nu-metal is a good way for a musician to make a living, I believe in a thing called dignity, and for a musician with so much talent to be wasted in a band where he can't even used it is, well, a waste. Potential, people - USE IT.


i can agree.. a lot of nu metal bands nowadays are picked up by labels simply because they are nu metal.. even if their music sound just like any other nu metal bands, they're signed coz just being nu metal sells..

and that is why i don't like a lot of nu metal bands...

korn, however, which started the whole nu metal thing, never intended to start a genre.. what they wanted when they started was to just play music... and given the opportunity to be in a record label, they took it! who wouldn't? so they became popular or as it is called, "mainstream"... and the RIAA coined up the name Nu Metal to make them even more marketable.. so was it korn's fault that nu metal became a good living?? i don't think so.. blame the music industry..

and i don't think korn doesn't have any talent.. yeah, perhaps they don't play the conventional way.. they don't base their stuff on scales.. yeah, probably they were just to lazy to learn it all.. but they managed to come up with great sounding music nonetheless.. coming up with their own brand of sound has to take even just a little skill.. and i'm very very sure you can't just take any kid from the street and make him come up with as good a sound as korn's..

and also, i dare say korn is a very creative band... think of it.. did they sound like anybody when they came out?? definitely not.. and listen to the first album, then listen to follow the leader, and then listen to untouchables. if you say any of those albums sound like each other, then you've got hearing problems!.. that's creativity! they came up with a distinct sound of their own.. that's why they sold big! coz they were original.. they didn't sound like anybody else at the time they came out.. instead of saying they don't understand what they're doing, let's just say that they have their own meaning to what they're playing! it's new! when true metal came out, i'm sure musicians of the time questioned it coz it was against the norm... it wasn't the way music was supposed to be played.. but then again, people kept on at it at the same time coming up with different ways of playing true metal.. so true metal became mainstream for a while (back in the 70's and 80's), and then later on slowly went back to the underground.. sounds familiar? coz it's the exact same thing that nu metal is going through right now.. it's not dying! it's just going underground..

what's killing nu metal is the ridiculous amount of imitators.. a lot of new bands just wanna be like korn or slipknot or disturbed.. they just go with what's already there, which is totally against the original principle of nu metal which was to come up with new unorthodox ways to play music... there are however a lot of original nu metal bands... deftones, system of a down, and rage against the machine.. these are just some bands who don't sound at all like anyone... they're original!

just for the record, my band looks up to korn.. but we try hard to not sound like them.. i, as a guitarist, listen to everything from pink floyd, to iron maiden, to nirvana, to the smashing pumpkins, and of course, to nu metal... the purpose is so i can merge what i hear to come up with my own sound and style.. and that's what I think nu metal is all about!

:cheers:

numetaldude
06-03-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by imback_inblack
status quo rule, i've been to see them twice in concert :cheers:

edit: and they have nothing to do with nu-metal :bonk:

man, i don't think he was talkin bout status quo the band.. when he said , 'don't listen to the status quo'.. he meant, don't listen to the current fad! :rolleyes:

Yeah Dude
06-03-2004, 02:19 PM
YEAH!!! Nu-Metal
Korn and Slipknot Rule!!!

mr. happypants
06-03-2004, 03:27 PM
I like all music exept pop-punk, rap, and country

Metal Matt
06-03-2004, 04:56 PM
There's already a thread exactly like this. And everytime I've seen someone say nu-metal sucks they do give reasons but the conversation usually goes like this....


Some guy: "Nu-metal sucks. It doesn't have (Gives reasons for not liking nu-metal)."
Stupid guy: "But why don't you like it?"
Some guy: "I just told you, it's because (Repeats reasons)."
Supid guy: "Yea but that's not important what's some other reasons?"
Some guy: "F<e>uck you, nu-metal is just gay."

shaketherim
06-03-2004, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Metal Matt
There's already a thread exactly like this. And everytime I've seen someone say nu-metal sucks they do give reasons but the conversation usually goes like this....


Some guy: "Nu-metal sucks. It doesn't have (Gives reasons for not liking nu-metal)."
Stupid guy: "But why don't you like it?"
Some guy: "I just told you, it's because (Repeats reasons)."
Supid guy: "Yea but that's not important what's some other reasons?"
Some guy: "F<e>uck you, nu-metal is just gay."

Hmmm...you still seemed biased, saying that the person who likes nu metal is stupid...oh well, some peopl in the world only care about their opinions. Anyway, I had no idea there was another thread like this. If you could give me a link to it that would help.

Metal Matt
06-03-2004, 06:37 PM
It's on the first page. And I would hardly consider myself bias considering I LIKE nu-metal. I am however bias against nu-metal fans because the majority of nu-metal fans barely pass the tests to qualify as retards for reasons I've already mentioned.

shaketherim
06-03-2004, 06:41 PM
Well, someone else told me the that metal vs. nu-metal was similar to this, I'm not sure that's what you're referring to but I'll assume it is. Anyway, this is still different from that, since I asked people here to elaborate on their oprions. And to your other point, well, there's nothing I can do about that, I'll admit there are some stupid nu-metal fans.

Metal Matt
06-03-2004, 06:45 PM
Yea it was the nu-metal vs. metal thread I was talking about. This one may be slightly different but I think it's similar enough that this one wasn't needed but whatever. Yea there are stupid nu-metal fans but there are stupid fans in every genre. It's just my experience that the nu-metal fans go out of their way to be in your face about their stupidity.

Streetsoldier
06-03-2004, 07:26 PM
People hate nu-metal for the same reason they hate emo, country, rap, hip-hop, alternative, techno, etc. It's their on personal biased. You can't make all of the people love you all of the time.

Plus, nu-metal the name is a roadblock for most bands. If you can't slip that tainted name than you might as well go emo.

EDIT:

Nu-metal is a the commerical form of metal. Some people hate that because it's "coperate".

scheck006
06-03-2004, 07:50 PM
I really don't see why people listen to nu-metal, every time I argue with someone I can always get them to admit that metal musicians are more talented...and that metal is better music...

but even after admiting its better, they always revert back to the original question...

thedandjay
06-03-2004, 08:16 PM
Im with scheck on this one.Nu-metal seems to be a fad in my school.Alot of people that say they listen to metal really listen to nu-metal.I try my best to get them into Opeth ,metallica,Iron madien,black sabbath,and so on.They always seem to stick with nu-metal.

division wall
06-03-2004, 08:19 PM
i don't hate it but some of the acts are really bad but then again you find some jems in there like chimaira, killswitch engage ect.

shaketherim
06-03-2004, 08:20 PM
After reading most of the opinions, and thinking about it, I've come to not a conclusion, but what I think a lot of it is. If you look around at your school, you probably will see several people that like Nu metal and other things. But if you look at UG, or any other guitar related site, you will notice that much more people are interested in metal. I think this is because metal had a lot of emphasis on guitaring, soloing, good leads and such, but most people aren't interested in that kind of thing. That is why, I think, that there are so many more nu-metal likers, and why you can't convince people at your school to like metal.

thedandjay
06-03-2004, 08:33 PM
^because they try to be feaks,and listening to iorn madien is the "Freak"thing to do.I dont hate nu-metal but when people try to say its the best music ever,it pisses me off.Nu-metal isnt that bad ,I actually like the deftones frist 2 albums,I also liek Ill Nion(at times) and mudvayne.It just alot of it seems to be phony,I also dont like the WAY down tuned guitars or the rap influence.Your probley right on the guitar influence,I think another thing is,alot of kids dont know the diffrence between the two.

Charlatan_001
06-03-2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by division wall
i don't hate it but some of the acts are really bad but then again you find some jems in there like chimaira, killswitch engage ect.


Yeah I don't like most of the "new" nu-metal.. but I admit I like stuff like older LP, Chimaira, Deftones...
Killswitch Engage is metalcore btw...


The reason why most people don't like nu-metal is because most people who claim to listen to metal actually listen to nu-metal and think they're the most hard-core dude in the general area.

Nu-metal is pretty simple ... just down-tuned with maybe about 3 powerchords, some computer/keyboard-generated effects that make most of the atmosphere to the song, and cliche'd lyrics about teenage angst mostly.

shaketherim
06-03-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Charlatan_001
Nu-metal is pretty simple ... just down-tuned with maybe about 3 powerchords, some computer/keyboard-generated effects that make most of the atmosphere to the song, and cliche'd lyrics about teenage angst mostly.

Hooooooo boy. You must not listen to a lot of nu-metal if that's what you think. There are some songs like that, like a lot of Linkin Park (not saying Linkin Park is bad), but if you listen to Slipknot, Deftones, Korn, etc. it's very different from that (other than the tune-down part, that I'll admit is true).

scheck006
06-03-2004, 10:30 PM
Not bashing on slipknot or their guitarists, but its just funny how the "hardcore" kids at my school tell me how "awesome" the new solos are and how great the guitarists are (they aren't bad, its just based on these songs, they shouldn't be drawing these conclusions)...that's when I pop in "The Glass prison"

thedandjay
06-03-2004, 10:51 PM
Yeah I know scheck,I read the thread in shred that was asking some upcomeing sherder's ,so kid mentoined slipknot.I was real suprised to see that.My question is why now have they decided to play solos?I hope slipknot's guitar player is trying to do REAL metal.Im still not a big fan,but if they do solos I will respect them a whole lot more.

MrScary07RR
06-03-2004, 11:14 PM
1)i havent come across one single nu metal band that can play their instruments correctly. and no, slipknot can not play their instruments either. they are NOT good guitarists. if you think they are, you need to experiment with other types of good music. one month of playing something good, and youll realise just how much slipknot and bands like them suck.

2)their fans are the most annoying people in the world. the pretend to like nu metal because they thinks it is cool. they call everyone else a conformist when they are some of the biggest conformists of all. if they try to act different, they think people will respect them. they are just as bad as the preps they pretend to hate so much. i could go on about this for days but ill stop here.

thedandjay
06-03-2004, 11:33 PM
Ok I do agree on some of that.I still dont think you can catagorize someone by what they listen to.


I agree Randy is a god

numetaldude
06-04-2004, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by MrScary07RR
1)i havent come across one single nu metal band that can play their instruments correctly. and no, slipknot can not play their instruments either. they are NOT good guitarists. if you think they are, you need to experiment with other types of good music. one month of playing something good, and youll realise just how much slipknot and bands like them suck.


are you just basing this on the stuff in their albums or do you know them personally? :)

mingles
06-04-2004, 02:40 AM
Here's a nu-metal song:

http://ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/d/disturbed/down_with_the_sickness_tab.htm

Here's metal song

http://ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/d/death/lack_of_comprehension_tab.htm


Notice how the metal song has way better guitar? That's one of the many reasons why.

rokphoenix
06-04-2004, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by shaketherim
After reading most of the opinions, and thinking about it, I've come to not a conclusion, but what I think a lot of it is. If you look around at your school, you probably will see several people that like Nu metal and other things. But if you look at UG, or any other guitar related site, you will notice that much more people are interested in metal. I think this is because metal had a lot of emphasis on guitaring, soloing, good leads and such, but most people aren't interested in that kind of thing. That is why, I think, that there are so many more nu-metal likers, and why you can't convince people at your school to like metal.

thats 'cos most people just listen to it 'cos they think its cool and dosent have any technical (or otherwise) knowldge of anything that they listen to!... yeah you cant convince people to like metal 'cos its simply not cool....
and i think mingles gave a good expample of the difference!....
but that should not be a reason why you like or dislike nu-metal....
if people actualy gave a **** about what they listen to how the fuck would anyone listen to POP?... i mean the whole genre is so fucking stupid, almost all the songs have the same kinda lyrics and the music is just horrible!....
but why are we even talking about pop :bonk:
i agree with what you said here... people just dont know that there are better things than they listen to and then there are people like "the defender of GC and LP" who just wont accept anything other than they listen to...

numetaldude
06-04-2004, 07:25 AM
the most sensible thing i can say about the whole thing is something i got from someone in the "metal vs nu metal" thread...

"like nu metal or like metal, just like it for the right reasons!"

:cheers:

shaketherim
06-04-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
i agree with what you said here... people just dont know that there are better things than they listen to and then there are people like "the defender of GC and LP" who just wont accept anything other than they listen to...

No, that's not really the point i was trying to make. I'm not saying that metal is better than nu-metal, I was saying that people don't like it because most people out there, who aren't guitarists, don't really give a **** if a song has great guitaring or not, they'll like it just for the sounds, which is why they like nu-metal.

6slip6knot6
06-05-2004, 10:41 AM
ok. people like what they like, and that is that. we all have our opinions, and i admit that i love nu metal way more than metal, i can't stand solos all the time, and alot of "real" metal singers have no talent at singing at all. <and this i believe is very true. if you say nu metal has no talent, that is your opinion from what you have heard. if you actually knew the guitarists, etc. than dont go saying they have no talent. and no, and also alot of you people are judging nu metalheads as people who are trying to be hardcore, etc. but that is just your opinion from what you have seen.

numetaldude
06-05-2004, 11:08 AM
might i suggest an "only metal vs nu metal thread"? i mean, this just goes on and on.. and whenever the commotion over one nu metal vs metal thread dies down, another thread is posted!

Twilight
06-05-2004, 11:59 AM
I agree there should be only one thread for this cause its all over the place.

Personally I think it's shallow to say that nu metal bands automatically suck because they use drop-tunings, completely ignoring any other elements of skill involved. Not all of them wear masks and not all of them act like morons. A lot of the music is very intelligent and driven by passionate lyrics.

I grew up listening to stuff like Korn and Deftones, their style has influenced me and I like that kind of music. I also listen to Metallica and a bit of Maiden once in a while is great. They are great bands and I have a lot of respect for them.

Songs don't have to be impossible to play to be good or fun to listen to.

And to not listen to a certain type of music because the fans are lame is just ignorant. If you have to define your music based on what other people listen to, you're essentially defeating your own personality. And that's a manufactured corporate mindset.

Why can't everyone just appreciate a good song? And if you don't like it, just don't listen to it.

scheck006
06-05-2004, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by 6slip6knot6
ok. people like what they like, and that is that. we all have our opinions, and i admit that i love nu metal way more than metal, i can't stand solos all the time, and alot of "real" metal singers have no talent at singing at all. <and this i believe is very true. if you say nu metal has no talent, that is your opinion from what you have heard. if you actually knew the guitarists, etc. than dont go saying they have no talent. and no, and also alot of you people are judging nu metalheads as people who are trying to be hardcore, etc. but that is just your opinion from what you have seen.

what do you mean you can't stand solos all the time? Do you have no appreciation for the talent and creativity that a good solo needs? What kind of bands are you listening to? A good solo will fit very well into the song and make it better and convey the emotions that the lyrics can't...

Charlatan_001
06-05-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by shaketherim
Hooooooo boy. You must not listen to a lot of nu-metal if that's what you think. There are some songs like that, like a lot of Linkin Park (not saying Linkin Park is bad), but if you listen to Slipknot, Deftones, Korn, etc. it's very different from that (other than the tune-down part, that I'll admit is true).

Slipknot has a DJ AND and "Electronics" person.

I listen to Deftones. It's not very tech at all.. but good to listen to. I can't really stand Korn that much anymore... Jon Davis' voice is just too irritating.

shaketherim
06-05-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Charlatan_001
Slipknot has a DJ AND and "Electronics" person.


In addition, they also have a singer, two guitarists, a bassist, a drummer, and two percussionists. They don't base their music on those things, they only use them.

bamskater554
06-05-2004, 11:11 PM
heres the deal or my opinion of it either people love nu metal or they hate it and i think shaketherim is probably one of the biggest nu metal fans in this entire thing and he gets it

shaketherim
06-05-2004, 11:13 PM
Just to clarify, gets what?

bamskater554
06-05-2004, 11:16 PM
nu metal

6slip6knot6
06-05-2004, 11:55 PM
naw he's still a newbie dude. ;)

Borto
06-06-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by zakk_wylde4
I personally don't like it because they don't know how to play their instruments, they drop their guitars 3 or 4 steps. And they wear stupid masks, they are like a bunch of little kids at halloween, slipknot just disgusts me
are you kidding? Mick from Slipknot is a teacher, Have you ever heard mudvayne??? I challenge you to play that shizit there, specailly the Bass!! Ryknown from mudvayne has to be the most amazing bass player since les claypool. And the, theres no solo's so they cant play their guitars, thats another JOKE some of mudvaynes, as well as sliptnots breakdowns riffs are more diffucult to finger than most mettalica solos, do you realize the hours of practice and dedication it takes to play that fast, that clean???? Im sure you do, the only diffrence is they(nu-metal bands) play bazing fast "shred" on the low strings, where the "shreders" play on the high strings

desturbdchyld
06-06-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Borto
are you kidding? Mick from Slipknot is a teacher, Have you ever heard mudvayne??? I challenge you to play that shizit there, specailly the Bass!! Ryknown from mudvayne has to be the most amazing bass player since les claypool. And the, theres no solo's so they cant play their guitars, thats another JOKE some of mudvaynes, as well as sliptnots breakdowns riffs are more diffucult to finger than most mettalica solos, do you realize the hours of practice and dedication it takes to play that fast, that clean???? Im sure you do, the only diffrence is they(nu-metal bands) play bazing fast "shred" on the low strings, where the "shreders" play on the high strings ...i dont understand what's so hard about it...

Borto
06-06-2004, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
...i dont understand what's so hard about it...
its not whats hard about , its if you listen to and attempt to play, you'll come to realize the musical backgrounds some of these guitarist have. If you really think none of this nu-metal is difficult to play you must be prettty darn efficiant on the geetar, I've been playing 12 years and am pretty darn good myself, I used to be a big shredder marty friedman, kirk, john olivia, there me hereos, so to speak but to say theses guitarist have no talet is jusy plain WRONG!! I HATE JIMMYPAGE And everything ever written by him and I also CANT STAND VAN HALEN I think they should put all of led zeps albums in a big pile and lite them on fire, and to start the fire, they shoud lite all of van halens albums on fire and use that, But I can still admit there AMAZING guitar players. anyway my point is saying they suck is unfounded cause you more than likely never listened to them, and grant you may not like that type of music, thatsfine, though it dosent mean there guitarist suck, I'd be willing to bet they'd play circles around you

Borto
06-06-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
...i dont understand what's so hard about it...
dude I replied repectfully last time, but do you know any sliptnot, or mudvayne, or korn????????????? not just the main riffs, the noises in the background, the ;eads so to speak?????? Huh Dod ya do ya??????? If not, wich is probally the case, Why are you asking, whats so hard abou it? are you trying to help, want to know what Im having trouble with, so you can offer some advise? or are you just being an asshole? assholes are plenty in the world, dont you want to be different? just another sheep

Charlatan_001
06-06-2004, 11:13 PM
So you're saying that the guitar parts in Nu-Metal are very tech?


And why did you quote desturbdchyld twice and rant aimlessly...

Metal Matt
06-06-2004, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Borto
dude I replied repectfully last time, but do you know any sliptnot, or mudvayne, or korn????????????? not just the main riffs, the noises in the background, the ;eads so to speak?????? Huh Dod ya do ya??????? If not, wich is probally the case, Why are you asking, whats so hard abou it? are you trying to help, want to know what Im having trouble with, so you can offer some advise? or are you just being an asshole? assholes are plenty in the world, dont you want to be different? just another sheep

I can play a bunch of mudvayne and I will tell you that I've never come across a mudvayne song that was anywhere near as hard as a decent metal song. Mudvayne is actually very easy to play on the guitar, Ryan on the other hand is one hell of a bassist and very impressive, but the guitar parts are just very simplistic. Stuff like Death Blooms I learned in no time. It's just not difficult to play. Slipknot's stuff falls into the same category although I don't know as much of it because I'm not a huge fan. But to say that Mudvayne's guitar parts are on the same level or better than that of maybe Nile or Symphony X is just ignorance.

I'm not saying these bands are bad bands. Simplicity adds something to the sound that usually makes it catchy and fun which I like from time to time. And the guitarists in nu-metal may very well be able to play unbelievably well (like Mick Thompson), they just don't show it on their albums (like Mick Thompson).

Borto
06-07-2004, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Charlatan_001
So you're saying that the guitar parts in Nu-Metal are very tech?


And why did you quote desturbdchyld twice and rant aimlessly...
out of aggravation:D , and no im not saying nu-meatal songs are technical, im saying these guitarist are a lot better than they show on thier albums. Sorry for the ranting:cheers: and Metal MAtt, Thanks for a resonable reply.

shaketherim
06-07-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by Metal Matt

I'm not saying these bands are bad bands. Simplicity adds something to the sound that usually makes it catchy and fun which I like from time to time. And the guitarists in nu-metal may very well be able to play unbelievably well (like Mick Thompson), they just don't show it on their albums (like Mick Thompson).

On the first part, I completely agree. The simplicity often makes songs sound great, because it does make them catchty and enjoyable. But where you say that they don't show it on their albums, I don't agree, especially with your example. On The Subliminal Verses, there are so many tracks where Mick starts a very impressive solo, which is a big change for Slipknot. Just listen to some of the songs on the album, you'll see that they do show their solos on the album.:cheers:

numetaldude
06-07-2004, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Charlatan_001
So you're saying that the guitar parts in Nu-Metal are very tech?


And why did you quote desturbdchyld twice and rant aimlessly...

it's not technical at all, except for some... most of it is not technical but is still difficult to do... maybe it's not talent, but still it takes a lot of skill and hard work to come up with any song even if it doesn't involve a single bit of musicianship.. think of how many hours head and munkey spent just experimenting with their pedals.. that's worth something in my opinion.. it's still work! maybe not talent, but still... it's not like Jonathan was just given pre-recorded music and sheets of papers to sing out (e.g. Britney Spears).. they still worked hard to come up with songs...

besides, who knows the circumstances they went through which may have kept them from learning theory?

true, it's unfair to the bands that do have loads of talent and really deserve recognition that korn became a lot more popular... but hey, that's life for ya! music has become an industry.. and we all know nothing is fair in industry! things aren't what they were a decade or so ago...

Buddhist_Rapper
06-07-2004, 01:08 PM
Going back to what people said about conforming, Maggots are one of the biggest fan based groups that exists. (Maggot = Slipknot fan. its a term tht slipknot came up with, not an insult from me).

but whats the big deal about conforming? Pop just means popular. Back in th 60's,70's and 80's rock and metal was called pop, because it was what people liked.

And why should people care about something being popular?

Hey, I'm not gonna like Linkin Park coz other ppl like them, and if like them then i'm fitting in....

I just picked LP randomly, it applies to a lot of stuff. u shud like sumthin coz u like th music, not coz no1 else likes it.

i have a lot of friends that wont admit to liking some stuff because its popular.

i have no shame about admitting that i have Busted mp3s on my PC, and even one Sugababes mp3. even the Streets, and Eminem. Yes i did download them myself.

I wouldnt care because its what i like, and no one can change that except me, and i dont plan to coz i like it.

You might try to flame me, but this is just coz of my tastes. if you browsed through my mp3 collection you would also find slipknot. you would find Korn. you would find a whole lot of linkin park. you would find limp bizkit, you would find stone sour. but you would also find the darkness, iron maiden, deep purple, the chilli peppers, metallica, blink 182, a band from france you probably havent heard of, millencolin, rancid, bon jovi, oasis, nirvana, feeder, aerosmith.... the list jst keeps going.....

i actually have one mp3 thats a classical piano solo....

just coz sum1 likes nu-metal dont mean they dont like other stuff.

and just coz a lot of people like something its not a reason to not like it, who cares if MTV say something is cool? if u like it, listen to it. it doesn't matter what the mainstream says. if u like stuff, listen 2 it. thats all that matters - no one cares where u heard it. every piece of music has its place, and i mean EVERY. yes, even rap and country.

that probably doesnt make as much sense as i'd hoped, but if i'm lucky i think i got across my message about all this 'its the mainstream so it isnt good' nonsense.

and if anyone flames me for bad grammar, i really am not bothered coz i jst type like this coz of chat n stuff.

and if anyone flames me for my musical taste, then fine coz th likelihood is even if u dnt like sum of th stuff i like u'll probs like sum of th other stuff.

Metal Matt
06-07-2004, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by shaketherim
On the first part, I completely agree. The simplicity often makes songs sound great, because it does make them catchty and enjoyable. But where you say that they don't show it on their albums, I don't agree, especially with your example. On The Subliminal Verses, there are so many tracks where Mick starts a very impressive solo, which is a big change for Slipknot. Just listen to some of the songs on the album, you'll see that they do show their solos on the album.:cheers:

I think you missed some of my earlier points. I have listened to those solo's and I still think they are terrible. That's why I mentioned metal bands like Symphony X. Listen to a Symphony X solo and then listen to those solo's there is simply no comparison. I'm willing to bet Mick could do better if the band would allow him to really shine.

LeeLeeMarie1
06-07-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by zakk_wylde4
I personally don't like it because they don't know how to play their instruments, they drop their guitars 3 or 4 steps. And they wear stupid masks, they are like a bunch of little kids at halloween, slipknot just disgusts me

I don't realy like Slipknot either...but there are some really inventive and cool nu-metal bands...like Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Trapt, Disturbed.....theres plenty more..don't judge nu-metal by one or two bands...

Metal Matt
06-07-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by LeeLeeMarie1
I don't realy like Slipknot either...but there are some really inventive and cool nu-metal bands...like Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Trapt, Disturbed.....theres plenty more..don't judge nu-metal by one or two bands...

There's nothing inventive about linkin park. I'm not going to debate cool because that's an opinion. Trapt isn't exactly inventive either. Limp Bizkit was somewhat original when they started so maybe they are a little more inventive and I've always like Disturbed so I'll agree with the cool factor there too.

LeeLeeMarie1
06-07-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Metal Matt
I've always like Disturbed so I'll agree with the cool factor there too.
i love disturbed...im listening to them now..lol

scheck006
06-07-2004, 03:04 PM
I love how people are saying the solos on subliminal verses are awesome and how nu-metal is so technical, and how if you would have at least listened to them, then you would agree...but isn't that kind of hypocritical?

If you at least listened to some dream theater would you say the same? Say, "This Dying Soul"

Metal Matt
06-07-2004, 03:24 PM
Yea the solo's on Slipknots new album are NOT good. The only thing they are is "there".

shaketherim
06-07-2004, 04:17 PM
Alright, I'm not going to argue anymore about the solos, because that is getting far too off topic. But I've said this before, and now I'm going to say it again. The music does not need to have good solos to be quality, in fact one might say that solos lower the quality of music. All they are is the guitarist showing off their skills, I'm not saying they're completely pointless, but anybody who isn't guitarist really doesn't care if a song has a solo or not. They just like them for the sound.

shaketherim
06-07-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by LeeLeeMarie1
I don't realy like Slipknot either...but there are some really inventive and cool nu-metal bands...like Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit, Trapt, Disturbed.....theres plenty more..don't judge nu-metal by one or two bands...

And something I need to say here. Just because you like a band doesn't mean that they are inventive, and just because you don't like a band doesn't mean that they aren't inventive. Disturbed, and Limp Bizkit's earlier stuff is inventive, they were constantly changing. But Trapt, and especially Linkin Park, do not really have inventive music. Most Linkin Park songs sound very similar (I still like them though, I'm just stating that).

Buddhist_Rapper
06-07-2004, 04:25 PM
^^^^ This man is cool. I like the way he explains things. Its a damn sight better than some of the b***s I see here.

All you people that diss newbies for having no idea whats going on, take heed. Just coz ur a newbie, dnt mean ur a retard. It jst means u havent been here in this forum long.

LeeLeeMarie1
06-07-2004, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by Buddhist_Rapper
Just coz ur a newbie, dnt mean ur a retard. It jst means u havent been here in this forum long.

THANK YOU! No one listens to my opinion just cuz im new here!
and i DO like the way shaketherim expresses himself...he doest talk trash about bands...he just explains his opinion.:D

MackDime
06-07-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by shaketherim
Alright, I'm not going to argue anymore about the solos, because that is getting far too off topic. But I've said this before, and now I'm going to say it again. The music does not need to have good solos to be quality, in fact one might say that solos lower the quality of music. All they are is the guitarist showing off their skills, I'm not saying they're completely pointless, but anybody who isn't guitarist really doesn't care if a song has a solo or not. They just like them for the sound.

I'm going to have to disagree with you when you say only guitarists care about solos, I'm not a bassist, but I love bass solos, same goes for drum solos or whatever, as long as the part is written well, solo or not, I'll like it.

:cheers:

scheck006
06-07-2004, 07:46 PM
how can solos make the music worse? Its the most musical part of the song? sure, anyone can make up a melody line, but can you do a good improv section? If I gave most of the people here a chord progression, I'm sure that they couldn't come up with as good of a solo as the metal guitarists they are bashing...Its just the guitarist showing off? how ignorant are you?

shaketherim
06-07-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by scheck006
how can solos make the music worse? Its the most musical part of the song? sure, anyone can make up a melody line, but can you do a good improv section? If I gave most of the people here a chord progression, I'm sure that they couldn't come up with as good of a solo as the metal guitarists they are bashing...Its just the guitarist showing off? how ignorant are you?

No, I don't think solos are the most musical part of the song. If you're going to disagree with my opinions, at least support your own. Basically you said "No you're wrong, solos are great, it isn't the guitarist showing off", which doesn't help anything. If it isn't the guitarist showing off, what is it? And besides, you should read everything I said. Making a good melody is just as hard as making a good improv section, because it isn't about how talented a musician is, it's how they use that talent to appeal to people. For example, Good Charlotte's guitarists even admitted that they aren't as talented as most bands, but they still have millions of fans, because their music is appealing (I don't like them but it is true).

Borto
06-07-2004, 09:40 PM
Solos? Solos Rock!!!! I dont think anyone will disagree nu- metal is far less technical than shred, grant theres not a single slipnot, or any nu- metal solos that can compete with say, dream theater, or savatage (john olivia is my favorite geetar player) All Im saying is these guys dont suck!!!!! and nu metal is technical , if all you listened to is greenday, or sum 41. most of these guys probally never even heard a dream theater, or cacaphony album. So to them nu metal is tech. though there are some really cool nu metal riffs, the harmonics in pushing me away, linkon park, Mudvaynes' whack out time sigs. now there has to be some thought and theory in that, and slipnot, thats just pure aggression, you can learn all the scales , modes, arpegieos(or how ever ya spell it ;)) but you cant learn how to put that "emotion" so to speak, into your playing. Anyone can ride the low E and make it sound heavy, but to do it and make it seem like the walls are gonna come down, well thats something you feel not learnof course these are just my opinions. like Kirk Hammet, His Live Solos will blow you away, But To see Wes Boarland Flail around the stage Like his guitar is an extra appendage, thats just more impressive to me, But then again what do I know LOL Slipnot Rulz!!!

LeeLeeMarie1
06-07-2004, 11:31 PM
wow, thats alot of typing there buddy....lmao

Borto
06-08-2004, 12:06 AM
Ahh I was Bored ;)

Buddhist_Rapper
06-08-2004, 02:36 AM
Actually, what I said earlier is not entirely true. Being a 'newbie' doesn't necessarily mean you're new here, it just means you haven't done however many posts you need to change the thing that says 'UG Newbie.' I've been here coming up to two years now, but I just read the forums and only post when I have something decent to contribute (a lot of people on these forums should read that) and as a result I don't have however many posts I need to change it.

How many posts do I need? Does anyone know?

Paroxysm
06-08-2004, 03:00 AM
Most people said nu-metal suck because they can't play their instuments or just play power chords. Well, if they can't play their instuments, their music wouldn't be good, now would it? Metal play pwoer chords all the time, but no one flame them... Just because they don't do solo's, doesn;t mean nu-metal suck either. Besides, singers from nu-metal bands are far better than any metal ones (maybe for Metallica and a cpuple others)

mingles
06-08-2004, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by Paroxysm
[B]Most people said nu-metal suck because they can't play their instuments or just play power chords. Well, if they can't play their instuments, their music wouldn't be good, now would it? Metal play pwoer chords all the time, but no one flame them... B]

But the difference is that metal bands put cool fills in between powerchords wereas nu-metal bands just strum them. It's gets boring to listen to that.

rokphoenix
06-08-2004, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by shaketherim
No, that's not really the point i was trying to make. I'm not saying that metal is better than nu-metal, I was saying that people don't like it because most people out there, who aren't guitarists, don't really give a **** if a song has great guitaring or not, they'll like it just for the sounds, which is why they like nu-metal.

well yeah most people out there who make nu-metal music also dont know **** about guitar.... and dont care what they do they just wanna get popular.... (but thats just IMO) and if keep arguing this is gonna be one full circle.... :D

and anyways why do you think most people who dont know anything about guitars hate metal?...

numetaldude
06-08-2004, 08:14 AM
^ true, most nu metal guitarists don't know how to use their instrument but i don't think they just do it to become popular... well, yea, maybe some do! :) i mean, we just can't tell. but I'm sure a lot of nu metal guitarists do it just coz it's fun! even if you don't know anything about it, it is still fun.. sometimes being stupid is fun, y'know! and i seriously don't believe anything is wrong with stupid.

as for why most people who don't know guitar hate metal coz we all know metal is something you must really understand to appreciate and most people who don't know guitar just can't understand it... it could be also be about metal's reputation.. it's known to be satanic, evil, and some metal bands are known to be very arrogant (such as KISS.. well, maybe just gene simmons! :) ) !

i'm not saying i don't like metal.. i love it! but just the music part... i'm just not too keen on its character!:)

scheck006
06-08-2004, 02:47 PM
but soloing isn't just about playing random notes...(As you seem to take it for) it takes a whole lot of skill to make a good improv section...A whole lot of theory, An awesome ear, and plenty of experience. no, I say again, How ignorant are you? Looking at your fav bands It just reinstates my arguement...LP, Slipknot, SOAD and metallica...now those are some great arguements to have behind you. lol why are you even in this arguement (NU-metal vs metal) if you've maybe heard a metallica song here or there. And especially why are you argueing about improv here when you probably have no jazz theory or experience behind you either...

shaketherim
06-08-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by scheck006
but soloing isn't just about playing random notes...(As you seem to take it for) it takes a whole lot of skill to make a good improv section...A whole lot of theory, An awesome ear, and plenty of experience. no, I say again, How ignorant are you? Looking at your fav bands It just reinstates my arguement...LP, Slipknot, SOAD and metallica...now those are some great arguements to have behind you. lol why are you even in this arguement (NU-metal vs metal) if you've maybe heard a metallica song here or there. And especially why are you argueing about improv here when you probably have no jazz theory or experience behind you either...

I really hope that you aren't talking about me. I have a ton of theory and experieince. I've been doing improv for about a year now, and in my band I use it every time, and one might still classify us as nu-metal. And just because I don't have any metal bands as my favourite bands doesn't mean I don't listen to them. You have a lot to learn about arguing my man. I never said soloing was about random notes, you should read what I post, I just said it doesn't impress people who aren't guitarists a whole lot, or people who don't know about guitar. You seem to be obsessed with taking shots at me, rather than stating your own point. That is not how you should be arguing, that is how a 9 year old would argue.

K-os
06-08-2004, 04:33 PM
I think nu metal is some of the baddest $hit eva! espcially slipknot... and killswitch engage,cradle of Filth, Shadows fall, Coal chamber, and so on oh and arch enemy

scheck006
06-08-2004, 06:20 PM
no, you said that its just the guitar player showing off and that it lowers the quality of music...and just because you've been doing improv for a year doesn't mean you are any good at it. Do you know how many people have a garage band and play solos in their garage band? That really doesn't mean anything to me...And actually, the most simple solo will impress someone who doesn't know **** about guitar.

stellar_legs
06-08-2004, 06:28 PM
I don't like Nu Metal because it's the most shallow form of music right now (right up there with teen pop and pop-punk).

Ok, here's the picture: A small band from California called Korn releases there debut album in 1993. The hundreds of bands who follow plagerize it inside and out, merciselly.

My beef is, the music is uninspired. No originality. No creative flow at all. Kids get together and think they can start a band with Ibanez guitars, lazy riffs, and bullshit lyrics about suicide and depression that, here it is, HOLD NO TRUTH TO THE AUTHOR>

That's my biggest complaint: lyrics. If your going to write a song, it should be personal and mean something to the author. Here's where the Nu Metal kids say, "But they are personal, just listen to Staind, Korn, and Linkin Park."

Bullshit. There's nothing wrong with writing at least 4 songs about held up anger and depression. But you should never be able to fill up 3 or 4 albums with that nonsense crap and expect most people to buy it. You shouldn't be able to write 60 songs about one subject.

Linkin Park = 5 rich, suburban white kids who have had everything handed to them. Why are they depressed? There not.

Staind = 4 average dudes from a small town. Seem pretty happy. Like normal guys. But when the music starts, out come the lies.

I look at Nu Metal as a sin. Music should be truthful, but there lying about there lives. Lying is a sin.

People might say. "Yeah but they write those songs so people can connect with them." It only takes one anthem to do that. Not 3 albums worth. Pretty soon this genre will die. You can't keep writing empty-headed ass-numbing songs about fear forever. Pretty soon those 15 year old gothic/skateboarding punks and sluts are going to grow up.

Paroxysm
06-08-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by stellar_legs
I don't like Nu Metal because it's the most shallow form of music right now (right up there with teen pop and pop-punk).

Ok, here's the picture: A small band from California called Korn releases there debut album in 1993. The hundreds of bands who follow plagerize it inside and out, merciselly.

My beef is, the music is uninspired. No originality. No creative flow at all. Kids get together and think they can start a band with Ibanez guitars, lazy riffs, and bullshit lyrics about suicide and depression that, here it is, HOLD NO TRUTH TO THE AUTHOR>

That's my biggest complaint: lyrics. If your going to write a song, it should be personal and mean something to the author. Here's where the Nu Metal kids say, "But they are personal, just listen to Staind, Korn, and Linkin Park."

Bullshit. There's nothing wrong with writing at least 4 songs about held up anger and depression. But you should never be able to fill up 3 or 4 albums with that nonsense crap and expect most people to buy it. You shouldn't be able to write 60 songs about one subject.

Linkin Park = 5 rich, suburban white kids who have had everything handed to them. Why are they depressed? There not.

Staind = 4 average dudes from a small town. Seem pretty happy. Like normal guys. But when the music starts, out come the lies.

I look at Nu Metal as a sin. Music should be truthful, but there lying about there lives. Lying is a sin.

People might say. "Yeah but they write those songs so people can connect with them." It only takes one anthem to do that. Not 3 albums worth. Pretty soon this genre will die. You can't keep writing empty-headed ass-numbing songs about fear forever. Pretty soon those 15 year old gothic/skateboarding punks and sluts are going to grow up.

Dude, every genre write songs like this... Hey, sometimes death metal make no ****ing sense, except maybe songs about hating this world and they want to die...

scheck006
06-08-2004, 07:01 PM
You do have to agree that linkin parks lyrics are all just nonsense...just things they made up, not actual feelings.

shaketherim
06-08-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by scheck006
no, you said that its just the guitar player showing off and that it lowers the quality of music...and just because you've been doing improv for a year doesn't mean you are any good at it. Do you know how many people have a garage band and play solos in their garage band? That really doesn't mean anything to me...And actually, the most simple solo will impress someone who doesn't know **** about guitar.

You're still talking about me, not really the topic. But anyway, I did not say that it lowers the quality of music, I said one might say that. And what I meant is people are impressed by it I guess, but it doesn't really make a difference to them if a song has a solo or not. And if it doesn't mean anything to you, why did you bring it up in the first place?:confused:

MackDime
06-08-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Paroxysm
Dude, every genre write songs like this... Hey, sometimes death metal make no ****ing sense, except maybe songs about hating this world and they want to die...

I may be wrong too, but from what I understood, the man was saying that, yes a few songs like that is acceptable, but 3 or 4 albums worth is pretty boring.

Metal Matt
06-08-2004, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by K-os
I think nu metal is some of the baddest $hit eva! espcially slipknot... and killswitch engage,cradle of Filth, Shadows fall, Coal chamber, and so on oh and arch enemy

WTF?!?!?!

Slipknot = nu-metal
Coal Chamber = nu-metal

But that's it

KSE = metalcore/hardcore
Shadows Fall = metalcore/metal
CoF = metal
Arch Enemy = metal

I can't believe you think Arch Enemy is nu-metal. That's pretty far off base

For future reference, just because something is "new" does not make it nu-metal. Nu-metal is a genre that describes a certain sound.

stellar_legs
06-09-2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Paroxysm
Dude, every genre write songs like this... Hey, sometimes death metal make no ****ing sense, except maybe songs about hating this world and they want to die...


Dude, not every genre of music writes songs about hating there life.


The only Nu Metal band I really admire is System of a Down. Why? because when inspiration strikes for them, it comes in the craziest places. They have a song about a pizza and a pogo stick for cryin' out loud. I believe there trying to shatter this old hoary Nu Metal cliche by doing something different. More power to them.

rokphoenix
06-09-2004, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by K-os
I think nu metal is some of the baddest $hit eva! espcially slipknot... and killswitch engage,cradle of Filth, Shadows fall, Coal chamber, and so on oh and arch enemy

:haha :haha :haha

its people like you (who dont know what the fuck they are talking about) that really spoils this place......

arch enemy nu-metal..... :haha

what a fucking retard

or is this a joke?

numetaldude
06-09-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by stellar_legs
I don't like Nu Metal because it's the most shallow form of music right now (right up there with teen pop and pop-punk).

Ok, here's the picture: A small band from California called Korn releases there debut album in 1993. The hundreds of bands who follow plagerize it inside and out, merciselly.

My beef is, the music is uninspired. No originality. No creative flow at all. Kids get together and think they can start a band with Ibanez guitars, lazy riffs, and bullshit lyrics about suicide and depression that, here it is, HOLD NO TRUTH TO THE AUTHOR>

That's my biggest complaint: lyrics. If your going to write a song, it should be personal and mean something to the author. Here's where the Nu Metal kids say, "But they are personal, just listen to Staind, Korn, and Linkin Park."

Bullshit. There's nothing wrong with writing at least 4 songs about held up anger and depression. But you should never be able to fill up 3 or 4 albums with that nonsense crap and expect most people to buy it. You shouldn't be able to write 60 songs about one subject.


true for most nu metal bands... but very untrue for korn, deftones, system of a down, and rage against the machine...

you may think korn's albums are all about one subject (depression) but it only seems that way.. if you take time to actually hear out the lyrics, you will realize that they are based on a variety of topics... of course, a lot of it covers depression but i think if you'd gone through the trauma jonathan has, you'd understand... however, aside from depression, korn integrates humor into some songs (mostly in "Life Is Peachy"), they have some sex-themed songs ("ADIDAS" and "Low Rider"), they've got songs directed at specific people in their lives ("Good God", "Daddy", and "Kill You".. and none of these songs talk about the same person, btw), they've even got songs that talk about their spirituality ("Got The LIfe"), they've got songs targeted at the abusive music industry ("Freak on a Leash" and "Y'all Want A Single"), they've got a song dedicated to a kid dying of cancer ("JUstin"), and of course the senseless but totally awesome gibberish ("Twist").. The list just goes on and on... Do you still think everything korn sings is about depression? (By the way, this information came from the mouth of Jonathan Davis himself)

just a little bio on jonathan though.. abused by his parents and other relatives, raped (IN THE ASS) by his neighbor, beat up and messed around with at school, became hooked on heroin, got a job at a funeral home where he saw people he talked to the other day dead (usually brutally murdered)...

As for deftones, you should know they almost NEVER sing about depression... they sing about rebellion ("Back to School", "My Own Summer") and some weird stuff that I just can't decipher ("Change", "Minerva", "Digital Bath", 'Knife Prty")

System of A down and rage against the machine are political bands for those who can't realize the obvious.. and i think it's justified that they keep singing about political issues until a solution to these issues come around (which will be sometime in NEVER!)... System of a Down has the most bizarre, stupid but at the same time ingenious lyrics I've ever heard, by the way...

so there you go.. a little insight for those who think nu metal is all depression-based... though i have to admit a lot of new nu metal bands write the stupidest ****... but those four bands I mentioned are definitely original!

(Oh and LInkin Park and LImp bizkit mostly sing about girl problems which I think bites! that's why i hate them!)

numetaldude
06-09-2004, 07:45 AM
by the way, stellar_legs, "Bounce" wasn't actually about a pogo stick... it had a much much deeper meaning ... like, let's say, A BUNCH OF GUYS F*CKING A GIRL! lol!

and "chic 'n' sty" (i guess that's the one you say is about pizza) is targeted at commercialism and deceptive advertisement...

system of a down kicks ass!

LeeLeeMarie1
06-09-2004, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
(Oh and LInkin Park and LImp bizkit mostly sing about girl problems which I think bites! that's why i hate them!)

hmmm I don't know where you got that idea....

how is a band made of entirely guys write songs about girl problems? and how the hell are some problems girl's and not guy problems?!??! I mean, the only thing I can think of PMS! That's a really crazy idea...:rolleyes:

numetaldude
06-09-2004, 08:58 AM
^ uhm.. i was not talking about girls' problems... i'm talking bout their problem with girls! like going through a breakup.. or not getting enough action in the bed!

LeeLeeMarie1
06-09-2004, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
^ uhm.. i was not talking about girls' problems... i'm talking bout their problem with girls! like going through a breakup.. or not getting enough action in the bed!

omg, that is such a lame comment!! three o them are married...the other three hjave had girlfriends since two years ago!! just because a band doesnt have lyrics about KILLING someone, or cuss every five seconds doesnt give you a reason to hate them, i mean, yes, you can hate w/e band you like, but come on!! thats a really lame reason to dislike band...:rolleyes:

:peace:

rokphoenix
06-09-2004, 12:10 PM
cussing every 5 seconds?..
that would be limp bizkit and maybe even slipknot (but their latest has less of it o gues) :D :bonk:

LeeLeeMarie1
06-09-2004, 12:24 PM
chocolate starfish and hot dog flavored wtaer...lol, i love it..

mingles
06-09-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by K-os
I think nu metal is some of the baddest $hit eva!

don't post like that if you want to be taken seriously.

LeeLeeMarie1
06-09-2004, 01:24 PM
for real..lol

**does anyoe know how many post you need to change the thing thats above your avatar?

Metal Matt
06-09-2004, 01:50 PM
1 million posts are required

eye_kaint_spael
06-09-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by LeeLeeMarie1
for real..lol

**does anyoe know how many post you need to change the thing thats about you avatar?

you're 25 away

eye_kaint_spael
06-09-2004, 05:01 PM
Limp Bizkit killed nu-metal for me...:(

LeeLeeMarie1
06-09-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Metal Matt
1 million posts are required

thanks a bunch.

lmao :peace:

i like Limp Bizkit..

desturbdchyld
06-09-2004, 05:31 PM
another nu-metal thread about nu-metal in the nu-metal forum...

we get too much of these :p:

Actually I think Linkin Park's lyrics aren't that based on girls problems but genital herpes! "crawwwling innn my skiiiiiiiin"

lol!

But most metal bands dont swear at all/very little. Its mainly the nu-metal bands that abuse the f-word. I think they said fu<e>ck twice on Reign In Blood (slayer) and it still got a fu<e>cking PA label. And most metal bands use descriptive imagery to portray evil, because, swearing has become so accepted it isnt evil anymore.

LeeLeeMarie1
06-09-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
Actually I think Linkin Park's lyrics aren't that based on girls problems but genital herpes! "crawwwling innn my skiiiiiiiin"
lmao!! thats halarious!:D

desturbdchyld
06-09-2004, 05:48 PM
i tried to think of another song that had the same meaning, but no lyrics sprung to mind

eye_kaint_spael
06-09-2004, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
Actually I think Linkin Park's lyrics aren't that based on girls problems but genital herpes! "crawwwling innn my skiiiiiiiin"


LOL thats going in the sig :p:

LeeLeeMarie1
06-09-2004, 07:36 PM
lol :rolleyes:

silly

6slip6knot6
06-09-2004, 07:50 PM
corey taylor gets my award for saying "****" the most.

desturbdchyld
06-09-2004, 08:36 PM
ozzy osbourne gets it for saying it just when he talks. I mean he ****in says **** so many ****ing times whenever he ****in talks its ****in insane, man. *injects heroin*

linkinfrk12
06-09-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by realiztik
Most people write that because it's not an Mtv thing anymore. Mtv tells them what to think. Follow the flock....

ha yeah exactly:rolleyes:

numetaldude
06-10-2004, 10:01 AM
leelee: the lyrics is just part of why i hate linkin park. (by the way, they don't cuss every 5 seconds or sing about hate...).. i do0n't have anything against their music.. they sound cool.. but their attitude is no different from the backstreet boys or n'sync.. for one thing, chester whined about not being nominated for a grammy.. he felt "offended"... what a total asshole! it shouldn't matter to him if he gets ****ing nominated or not! geez...

as for limp bizkit, fred durst is just the biggest ass in the world... did you know he held auditions for bass in chicago with a condition that the limp bizkit would own any piece used in the auditions.. then after everyone was done, he told them to **** off (not his exact words though :D) coz they already hired someone some time before... what a scam artist...

funeralforafrie
06-10-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by realiztik
Most people write that because it's not an Mtv thing anymore. Mtv tells them what to think. Follow the flock....

Baa. Thats sorta true.

eye_kaint_spael
06-10-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by numetaldude
as for limp bizkit, fred durst is just the biggest ass in the world... did you know he held auditions for bass in chicago with a condition that the limp bizkit would own any piece used in the auditions.. then after everyone was done, he told them to **** off (not his exact words though :D) coz they already hired someone some time before... what a scam artist...

I was so happy when Results May Vary did so bad. What a shi<e>tty album. :) the only good song on there is a Who cover.

The only thing i ever liked about Limp Bizkit was Wes. I used to think his black contacts was soo cool:p: and he was the only talented guy in the band

desturbdchyld
06-10-2004, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by numetaldude
leelee: the lyrics is just part of why i hate linkin park. (by the way, they don't cuss every 5 seconds or sing about hate...).. i do0n't have anything against their music.. they sound cool.. but their attitude is no different from the backstreet boys or n'sync.. for one thing, chester whined about not being nominated for a grammy.. he felt "offended"... what a total asshole! it shouldn't matter to him if he gets ****ing nominated or not! geez...
Chester Bennington is a whiny person naturally, listen to how he sings the lyrics. He's the whiniest singer I can think of at the moment.

And your right about the attitude, same as boybands. The only thing that makes Linkin Park cooler is that they have a guitarist (even though they dont let him play).

eye_kaint_spael
06-10-2004, 10:55 PM
whinest singers:
1. Joel/Benji Madden
2. That Pierre guy from SP
3. Chester
4. Chris Carabba (i like his music tho)

numetaldude
06-11-2004, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by eye_kaint_spael
I was so happy when Results May Vary did so bad. What a shi<e>tty album. :) the only good song on there is a Who cover.

The only thing i ever liked about Limp Bizkit was Wes. I used to think his black contacts was soo cool:p: and he was the only talented guy in the band

yeah, wes was great... not much of a guitarist, but he's got a lot of stage presence... there are two things that make limp bizkit recognizable... fred durst's dorky red cap and wes' crazy get-ups! kinda reminds me of guns n roses. you could distinguish a gnr song by either axl's sharp voice or slash' amazing soloes. in both cases, the vocalists were asses who eventually broke up the band!

eye_kaint_spael
06-12-2004, 04:14 PM
^lol, i mean, sh<e>it, how many Yankees hats DOES he have?

desturbdchyld
06-12-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by eye_kaint_spael
whinest singers:
1. Joel/Benji Madden
2. That Pierre guy from SP
3. Chester
4. Chris Carabba (i like his music tho) what about the dude from Korn???

scheck006
06-12-2004, 09:38 PM
yes, you have to admit he is a whiny person...

numetaldude
06-12-2004, 10:53 PM
^ his new voice is really whiny, i have to admit even if I'm a big fan... but from the s/t to follow the leader, he had a very powerful voice and a growl to go with it... i wonder what happened.. :confused:

desturbdchyld
06-13-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by numetaldude
^ his new voice is really whiny, i have to admit even if I'm a big fan... but from the s/t to follow the leader, he had a very powerful voice and a growl to go with it... i wonder what happened.. :confused: i havent heard much of the old stuff, just the new sh<e>it i guess

numetaldude
06-14-2004, 05:37 AM
^ "blind" was when jonathan's growl was at its prime.. pretty powerful stuff. Of all the guys in Korn, I admire Jonathan the most and it was because of his work in the self titled and life is peachy..

jonathan's best vocal works are probably his gibberish which are just so cool.. nothing compares... "twist" and "ball toungue".. you may not love those songs but you'll definitely there's nothing like it!

rokphoenix
06-15-2004, 02:05 AM
isnt this thread loosing its perspective?....
or is it just me??>

and who cares if chester whines or not?... all that matters is that they dont make good music anymore

numetaldude
06-15-2004, 07:12 AM
^ yeah.. but after all the arguments between which is better, it just got boring.. besides, it really was going nowhere... :D so might as well just use this thread to discuss other stuff!

Nilefan
06-15-2004, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by 6slip6knot6
yea, arent you a happy camper... where did i insult you or open my mouth?? lol i stated what i think, and what i think is hard to explain. i never said a damn word about true metal, dip****.. get out of this forum and get back into your "real metal". by the way, i DO listen to metallica and various other bits of "real metal", but nu metal happens to be my favorite. my opinion is my opinion, coming in here and bustin **** at people for no reason is foolish. now get lost.

If I say I was sorry for what I'm about to say, I'd be lying. You see, the answer is right here.

Most of the nu-metal fans are 14, 15 16 year old kids (yep, it's your case 6slip6knot6...). You don't see (I don't...) 20-30 year old nu-metal fans that say that they also hear "real" metal, but like nu-metal most. It's impossible. Most nu-metal fans are kids who know shit about music aso they think nu-metal is great, that they are very original and they have the heaviest sound in the history of music and that they must be really great musicians otherwise they wouldn't be succesfull.

Anyone that really knows both environments, KNOW that nu-metal is about 99.99999999999999% inferior to metal musically. Any musician knows that. Any non retarded individual knows that. Kids nowadays don't. I learned to live with it. You should do the same.

desturbdchyld
06-15-2004, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Nilefan
If I say I was sorry for what I'm about to say, I'd be lying. You see, the answer is right here.

Most of the nu-metal fans are 14, 15 16 year old kids (yep, it's your case 6slip6knot6...). You don't see (I don't...) 20-30 year old nu-metal fans that say that they also hear "real" metal, but like nu-metal most. It's impossible. Most nu-metal fans are kids who know shit about music aso they think nu-metal is great, that they are very original and they have the heaviest sound in the history of music and that they must be really great musicians otherwise they wouldn't be succesfull.

Anyone that really knows both environments, KNOW that nu-metal is about 99.99999999999999% inferior to metal musically. Any musician knows that. Any non retarded individual knows that. Kids nowadays don't. I learned to live with it. You should do the same. Very true. I agree with you totally. Teens are exploited onto nu-metal because its "popular" and so they listen to it. But I've managed to pull out of the nu-metal phase.

scheck006
06-15-2004, 11:17 AM
I said that once, and the person tried to argue with me and he was only 14...lol

6slip6knot6
06-15-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Nilefan
If I say I was sorry for what I'm about to say, I'd be lying. You see, the answer is right here.

Most of the nu-metal fans are 14, 15 16 year old kids (yep, it's your case 6slip6knot6...). You don't see (I don't...) 20-30 year old nu-metal fans that say that they also hear "real" metal, but like nu-metal most. It's impossible. Most nu-metal fans are kids who know shit about music aso they think nu-metal is great, that they are very original and they have the heaviest sound in the history of music and that they must be really great musicians otherwise they wouldn't be succesfull.

Anyone that really knows both environments, KNOW that nu-metal is about 99.99999999999999% inferior to metal musically. Any musician knows that. Any non retarded individual knows that. Kids nowadays don't. I learned to live with it. You should do the same.

you would'nt know anything about me, i don't think you have any right to assume anything either. and yes, i DO know a well bit on music, and you judging me by what you think, is foolish. i do not "think" they are great musicians, and you think everyone who listens to nu metal is the same, not knowing a damn thing about music. nu metal is music, quit complaining and whining, just because myself and others might happen to like the genre. i like it for my own reasons, and we both like what we like. and yes, metal IS more talented music wise, i'm not a fool, i do know these things. so basicly i'm telling you to stop being a prick, get over your stereotypes, and shut up about it.

itsdan89
06-15-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by saddam
dude you say slipknot don't know how to play their instruments? That's ****in stupid! Mick and James are great guitarists!

they are good gutarists

desturbdchyld
06-15-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by itsdan89
they are good gutarists mick is the talented one... and he still doesnt show it, except for a few seconds on the new album

nemesis8256
06-15-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by realiztik
Most people write that because it's not an Mtv thing anymore. Mtv tells them what to think. Follow the flock....

:cheers:

guitardude72565
06-15-2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by 6strung
The difference between 'metal' and 'nu meta'l is the lack of hair sprayed and teased, leather wearing, homosexual singing, i've had every vd possible, the solo is the only part of the song that is important, now out of work and living with my parents but i'm still a rock star because my tattoo says so people. 'Hair metal' blows. I'd rather listen to nothing than that. Those are just some of the differences!

:haha :haha :haha :haha :haha :haha :haha thats hilarious you must have never heard Dying Fetus or Cannibal Corpse Slayer or Pantera. homo sexual singing at least they know how to play their instruments and dont have to wear a mask or have an image just to sell albums. i hate that nu metal is even classified as a type of metal. its just a bunch of losers banging on out of tune guitars an banging on beer kegs. and why does one bands need 9 people it makes no sense to me. i think people who think they are so bad just because they listen to korn or slipknot are stupid that is why i hate nu metal.

guitardude72565
06-15-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by itsdan89
they are good gutarists :haha :haha :haha :haha thats a joke right?

guitardude72565
06-15-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Nilefan
If I say I was sorry for what I'm about to say, I'd be lying. You see, the answer is right here.

Most of the nu-metal fans are 14, 15 16 year old kids (yep, it's your case 6slip6knot6...). You don't see (I don't...) 20-30 year old nu-metal fans that say that they also hear "real" metal, but like nu-metal most. It's impossible. Most nu-metal fans are kids who know shit about music aso they think nu-metal is great, that they are very original and they have the heaviest sound in the history of music and that they must be really great musicians otherwise they wouldn't be succesfull.

Anyone that really knows both environments, KNOW that nu-metal is about 99.99999999999999% inferior to metal musically. Any musician knows that. Any non retarded individual knows that. Kids nowadays don't. I learned to live with it. You should do the same. thats exactly what i think :cheers:

desturbdchyld
06-15-2004, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by guitardude72565
:haha :haha :haha :haha thats a joke right? mick actually is a decent guitarist, he just doesnt show it

guitardude72565
06-15-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
mick actually is a decent guitarist, he just doesnt show it really?

dougiecrystals
06-15-2004, 09:08 PM
um is system of a down nu metal? i like them cause it was unlike anything i had ever heard back then ..........the sound was simply in a essence "cool"...............

scheck006
06-15-2004, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by 6slip6knot6
you would'nt know anything about me, i don't think you have any right to assume anything either. and yes, i DO know a well bit on music, and you judging me by what you think, is foolish. i do not "think" they are great musicians, and you think everyone who listens to nu metal is the same, not knowing a damn thing about music. nu metal is music, quit complaining and whining, just because myself and others might happen to like the genre. i like it for my own reasons, and we both like what we like. and yes, metal IS more talented music wise, i'm not a fool, i do know these things. so basicly i'm telling you to stop being a prick, get over your stereotypes, and shut up about it.


there we go again, someone admits that metal is better music, but they like nu-metal better. ???:confused: how can you say something is better, but I like the other one that is not as good? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

rokphoenix
06-16-2004, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by scheck006
there we go again, someone admits that metal is better music, but they like nu-metal better. ???:confused: how can you say something is better, but I like the other one that is not as good? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

yeah why do people say that they know that something is better but still listen to the othe thing?... thats just stupid

numetaldude
06-16-2004, 05:58 AM
^ well, there's the music and then there's the sound... as musicians, metal is in fact 99.9999999% superior to nu metal.. but when it comes to sound, i just like a catchier, something-you-can-mosh-to sound, which is what nu metal offers... even my favorite true metal songs have catchy riffs like "wasted years" by iron maiden and "enter sandman" by metallica. you have to admit those are catchy tunes. :)

the first thing that I watch for when I hear a song is the tone.. yup, if it the recording sounds awful, i turn it off... which is why i just don't like black sabbath. so even if it's got excellent musical workmanship, if the tone is bad, i don't bother listening to it...

another thing i look for is the lyrics (or just the vocals in general).. this is why I don't like slayer... i've only heard two of their songs.. that's "angel of death" and "bloodline".. and neither one has good vocal work.. it just sounds like the guy's really pissed and is reciting a poem about it... as for lyrics, i really feel uneasy listening to stuff that talk about how satan is cool, how christianity's a joke, and how your blood's gonna flow when someone slices your head off, which is why death metal is just not for me...

one thing i don't understand about myself though is why i get tired of a song after listening to it a few times... not just nu metal and not just metal.. whenever i download a song, i say "wow this is amazing".. and i listen to it a few times... and then i just get tired of it.. i thought at first it was just because i was listening to nu metal.. i mean, everyone (in UG) says nu metal gets boring after a few listens coz of the few riffs involved... but then it was the same with practically every other thing I listened to : pink floyd, nirvana, iron maiden, metallica, dream theater. :confused:

rokphoenix
06-16-2004, 07:59 AM
i believe you have just described some of the black metal bands.....
and as for death metal, most of the stuff is not like that... and before you come to your conclusion why dont you listen to some death metal?....

and IMO music does not have to be always "catchy" to enjoy it...

and i donno about you, but i never get tired of some of the songs i listeb to... and i cant even imagine how the hell can you possibly get tired of dream theater?... (maybe its just me)

Whstripesrox
06-16-2004, 01:41 PM
i'm a fan of old metal but some nu-metal iss all-right for instance I like Chevelle

shaketherim
06-16-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
and IMO music does not have to be always "catchy" to enjoy it...

No, it doesn't, but that depends on different people's taste. I myself listen to both metal and nu-metal, but if I'm partying with my friends or something, nu-metal is what we need. You can just lose yourself in it and have a blast listening to it because it is catchy. Metal just isn't like that, although I admit there are still many great metal songs.

Originally posted by rokphoenix
yeah why do people say that they know that something is better but still listen to the othe thing?... thats just stupid

This is to you and scheck, he didn't say it was better. He said musically, it was better. Of course metal bands show their skills on the guitar far more often than nu-metal bands do. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the band is better. And again, that also has to do with people's taste, that is why they would listen to the other type.

metallicafan180
06-16-2004, 05:38 PM
some nu-metal is good stuff, so i agree with you.

perfec_circl
06-17-2004, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by realiztik
Most people write that because it's not an Mtv thing anymore. Mtv tells them what to think. Follow the flock....
:haha :haha :haha are you insane? Practically the only form of "rock" Mtv plays is nu-metal. If they're telling us anything, it's to love nu-metal.

But back to topic. Nu-metal doesn't suck as a genre. There's just a lot of .....unliked..... bands that fall into it so the genre suffers as a result. I personally don't like a lot of them, but I do like some. Sevendust, Helmet, Staind, Evanesence (somewhat... I've started getting annoyed by them as of late)....

guitardude72565
06-17-2004, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by perfec_circl
:haha :haha :haha are you insane? Practically the only form of "rock" Mtv plays is nu-metal. If they're telling us anything, it's to love nu-metal.

But back to topic. Nu-metal doesn't suck as a genre. There's just a lot of .....unliked..... bands that fall into it so the genre suffers as a result. I personally don't like a lot of them, but I do like some. Sevendust, Helmet, Staind, Evanesence (somewhat... I've started getting annoyed by them as of late).... i really dont think sevendust is nu metal they arent real metal either but i dont think nu metal

Metal Matt
06-17-2004, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
^ well, there's the music and then there's the sound... as musicians, metal is in fact 99.9999999% superior to nu metal.. but when it comes to sound, i just like a catchier, something-you-can-mosh-to sound, which is what nu metal offers... even my favorite true metal songs have catchy riffs like "wasted years" by iron maiden and "enter sandman" by metallica. you have to admit those are catchy tunes. :)

the first thing that I watch for when I hear a song is the tone.. yup, if it the recording sounds awful, i turn it off... which is why i just don't like black sabbath. so even if it's got excellent musical workmanship, if the tone is bad, i don't bother listening to it...

another thing i look for is the lyrics (or just the vocals in general).. this is why I don't like slayer... i've only heard two of their songs.. that's "angel of death" and "bloodline".. and neither one has good vocal work.. it just sounds like the guy's really pissed and is reciting a poem about it... as for lyrics, i really feel uneasy listening to stuff that talk about how satan is cool, how christianity's a joke, and how your blood's gonna flow when someone slices your head off, which is why death metal is just not for me...

one thing i don't understand about myself though is why i get tired of a song after listening to it a few times... not just nu metal and not just metal.. whenever i download a song, i say "wow this is amazing".. and i listen to it a few times... and then i just get tired of it.. i thought at first it was just because i was listening to nu metal.. i mean, everyone (in UG) says nu metal gets boring after a few listens coz of the few riffs involved... but then it was the same with practically every other thing I listened to : pink floyd, nirvana, iron maiden, metallica, dream theater. :confused:

I agree with basically everything you said here regarding why some like nu-metal and some like metal, although I have different opinions on what sounds good to my ear than you they are just my opinions. :cheers:

If you like catchy stuff (like me) then you should probably give some melodic death metal bands a try. In Flames, Children of Bodom, Norther and Skyfire are all great bands for a catchy sound.

To guitardude: Sorry but Sevendust are definently nu-metal.

numetaldude
06-17-2004, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
i believe you have just described some of the black metal bands.....
and as for death metal, most of the stuff is not like that... and before you come to your conclusion why dont you listen to some death metal?....

and IMO music does not have to be always "catchy" to enjoy it...

and i donno about you, but i never get tired of some of the songs i listeb to... and i cant even imagine how the hell can you possibly get tired of dream theater?... (maybe its just me)

i do listen to some death metal.. as a matter of fact, i'm a fan of sepultura (that's death metal, right?).. from what i hear, most of their lyrics to be political in nature.. am i right on this? but then stuff like cannibal corpse and morbid angel just doesn't work for me.. i meant to edit my last post to say "that's why death/black metal is just not for me!" but then you beat me to it! :cheers:

yup, music doesn't have to be catchy to enjoy it.. but then, it's still just a matter of opinion.. some people enjoy non-catchy tunes, some enjoy catchy tunes.. in the words of crazywhiteboy, one man's trash is another man's treasure..

maybe i get tired of songs easily because whenever i d/l a song and I like what I hear, i usually play it back over and over.. so yeah, it gets boring... but after a while, I see an old song in my list and play it, I start to love it again... and then i play it over and over until i get tired of it.. see the cycle? :D right now, my favorite song to listen to is "back in black".. i'll probably get tired of it after a couple of weeks or so...

desturbdchyld
06-18-2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
i do listen to some death metal.. as a matter of fact, i'm a fan of sepultura (that's death metal, right?).. i dont believe sepultura is death metal, i think it was thrash, and is ever deteriorating in the minds of metalheads. I really dont see any problem with it, however.

rokphoenix
06-18-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by shaketherim
No, it doesn't, but that depends on different people's taste. I myself listen to both metal and nu-metal, but if I'm partying with my friends or something, nu-metal is what we need. You can just lose yourself in it and have a blast listening to it because it is catchy. Metal just isn't like that, although I admit there are still many great metal songs.

This is to you and scheck, he didn't say it was better. He said musically, it was better. Of course metal bands show their skills on the guitar far more often than nu-metal bands do. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the band is better. And again, that also has to do with people's taste, that is why they would listen to the other type.

i agree that it comes down to opinion but dont tell me that every song you like have to be catchy.... and i believe metal have more catchy songs than nu-metal (maybe our definitions of "catchy" are different) but anyways....

and metal and nu-metal are considered music, and if youthink metal bands are musically better that shoul make them a better band than some of the nu-metal ones.... i mean if you are saying that the band has talent and they are "musically" better than the nu-metal bands, i dont know what the hell you are trying to say, and yes it does come down to the person to choose to listen to what he wants, but you can do that without making comments like that (which is rather stupid IMO)..

(or did i compleately read you wrong??)

Buddhist_Rapper
06-18-2004, 03:14 PM
I think when you describe something as MUSICALLY BETTER, it is not the same as saying it is BETTER MUSIC. Musically better refers to the talent required to churn out the riffs needed, i.e. a higher standard of musicianship. Now, just because something is hard to play it most definitely does not mean it sounds good. Some of the best sounding riffs are really easy, and I think that's part of what makes people like them. So when whoever it was (sorry dude) said that metal was better musically, he was acknowledging that the majority of metal guitarists hold more musical talent than the majority of nu-metal guitarists (especially Brad Delson). However, he (and a lot of other people, it must be recognised) thinks that the nu-metal stuff sounds better. Not because it's easier, or because he might pretend it's harder (which, from what I've seen, he doesn't).

Someone's musical talent is a fact.

How good someone's music is to listen to is opinion.

There is a large difference between the two, which some people (I am glad to say) acknowledge and others blatantly ignore.

I hope I haven't confused people further...:D

desturbdchyld
06-18-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Buddhist_Rapper


Someone's musical talent is a fact.

How good someone's music is to listen to is opinion.

There is a large difference between the two, which some people (I am glad to say) acknowledge and others blatantly ignore.

I hope I haven't confused people further...:D Someones musical talent maybe a fact, but sometimes they dont demonstrate it. Like Mick from Slipknot, I'm sure if he joined a different band he'd be more widely applauded- for he'd be showing off talent that he has, just has been avoiding in Slipknot.


to rokphoenix- what does IMO mean, lol, I have no fu<e>cking clue, and you use it a a lot, lol

:cheers:

Metal Matt
06-18-2004, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Buddhist_Rapper
I think when you describe something as MUSICALLY BETTER, it is not the same as saying it is BETTER MUSIC. Musically better refers to the talent required to churn out the riffs needed, i.e. a higher standard of musicianship. Now, just because something is hard to play it most definitely does not mean it sounds good. Some of the best sounding riffs are really easy, and I think that's part of what makes people like them. So when whoever it was (sorry dude) said that metal was better musically, he was acknowledging that the majority of metal guitarists hold more musical talent than the majority of nu-metal guitarists (especially Brad Delson). However, he (and a lot of other people, it must be recognised) thinks that the nu-metal stuff sounds better. Not because it's easier, or because he might pretend it's harder (which, from what I've seen, he doesn't).

Someone's musical talent is a fact.

How good someone's music is to listen to is opinion.

There is a large difference between the two, which some people (I am glad to say) acknowledge and others blatantly ignore.

I hope I haven't confused people further...:D

Some people get....

some don't....

This guy gets it as do the other intelligent people on UG. The other ones....well we can't force them to understand, they'll just have to do it on their own.

desturbdchyld
06-18-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Metal Matt
Some people get....

some don't....

This guy gets it as do the other intelligent people on UG. The other ones....well we can't force them to understand, they'll just have to do it on their own. but they're all slipknot fans, and we already figured they were hopeless anyway!

shaketherim
06-18-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
but they're all slipknot fans, and we already figured they were hopeless anyway!

Wow. So because someone is a Slipknot fan, they are hopeless? I'll admit, some Slipknot fans are CAPS USING ****ing swearing unintelligent people, but most of them are not. Some fans of ALL music are hopelessly stupid also, so you can't just say that. Also, not everyone who doesn't get it is a Slipknot fan. Geez, I'm getting so tired of everyone stereotyping Slipknot and their fans.

desturbdchyld
06-18-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by shaketherim
Wow. So because someone is a Slipknot fan, they are hopeless? I'll admit, some Slipknot fans are CAPS USING ****ing swearing unintelligent people, but most of them are not. Some fans of ALL music are hopelessly stupid also, so you can't just say that. Also, not everyone who doesn't get it is a Slipknot fan. Geez, I'm getting so tired of everyone stereotyping Slipknot and their fans. I dont mean to insult you, I'm mainly talking to people who have 666 and either (sic) or breed in their screennames, as well as the generic slipknot avatar.

I dont believe you have said anything to make me think that you are retarded, that insult was not aimed at you whatsoever.

As to the generalization of slipknot fans , take a good look around, and see that most of them are rather stereotypical.

shaketherim
06-18-2004, 08:56 PM
^^Alright, alright. It's really that I just hate to see someone stereotyping almost ANY band.

desturbdchyld
06-18-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by shaketherim
^^Alright, alright. It's really that I just hate to see someone stereotyping almost ANY band. C'mon, Good Charlotte, doesnt it just stir contempt for the followers of the "phonies in black"

shaketherim
06-18-2004, 09:12 PM
:p:, too true, too true, but that's why I said ALMOST any band.

numetaldude
06-19-2004, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
Someones musical talent maybe a fact, but sometimes they dont demonstrate it. Like Mick from Slipknot, I'm sure if he joined a different band he'd be more widely applauded- for he'd be showing off talent that he has, just has been avoiding in Slipknot.


to rokphoenix- what does IMO mean, lol, I have no fu<e>cking clue, and you use it a a lot, lol

:cheers:

well, personally, I don't think Mick would do anything different if he was in another band... The stuff he does with Slipknot is what he wants to play, even if it doesn't show a lot of talent.. I don't think the other band members pressure him into playing anything he doesn't want to play.

Buddhist_Rapper
06-19-2004, 08:34 AM
^^^^ I agree completely, Mick likes to don his mask and do his low shred so why stop him? If he likes playing that music, if he was in another band it would probably just be another band that let him do that. He might have the talent, he just prefers the music he can make without it.

desturbdchyld
06-19-2004, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Buddhist_Rapper
^^^^ I agree completely, Mick likes to don his mask and do his low shred so why stop him? If he likes playing that music, if he was in another band it would probably just be another band that let him do that. He might have the talent, he just prefers the music he can make without it. eh... I guess your right, but maybe the Subliminal Verses was him identifying with himself, and realizing that he could bring out depth in his playing instead of just stringing out barely audible power chords.

rokphoenix
06-20-2004, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Buddhist_Rapper
I think when you describe something as MUSICALLY BETTER, it is not the same as saying it is BETTER MUSIC. Musically better refers to the talent required to churn out the riffs needed, i.e. a higher standard of musicianship. Now, just because something is hard to play it most definitely does not mean it sounds good. Some of the best sounding riffs are really easy, and I think that's part of what makes people like them. So when whoever it was (sorry dude) said that metal was better musically, he was acknowledging that the majority of metal guitarists hold more musical talent than the majority of nu-metal guitarists (especially Brad Delson). However, he (and a lot of other people, it must be recognised) thinks that the nu-metal stuff sounds better. Not because it's easier, or because he might pretend it's harder (which, from what I've seen, he doesn't).

Someone's musical talent is a fact.

How good someone's music is to listen to is opinion.

There is a large difference between the two, which some people (I am glad to say) acknowledge and others blatantly ignore.

I hope I haven't confused people further...:D

ywah i agree with most of what you said, and maybe some people just want to play powercords and maybe some people cant play anything other than powerchords, and i dont understand why everybody says nu-metal sounds better, what exactly does that mean to you?... ,its easier to play?pleasing to the ears, ....
and dosent better musicians generally make better music?... or am i wrong?....
and everbody have aknowldged that there are some people in nu-metal who have some talent (just that they dont want to show it) but most of the people dont have any talent to show off and there are even some who have been studying guitar for less than a year..... (well maybe i could be wrong) but i believe that people who have talent (and if they come together) then they can make some great music that can inspire you rather than some bunch of friends who are in for some quick money.....

and to disturbedchyld, IMO - In My Opinion

numetaldude
06-20-2004, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
ywah i agree with most of what you said, and maybe some people just want to play powercords and maybe some people cant play anything other than powerchords, and i dont understand why everybody says nu-metal sounds better, what exactly does that mean to you?... ,its easier to play?pleasing to the ears, ....
and dosent better musicians generally make better music?... or am i wrong?....
and everbody have aknowldged that there are some people in nu-metal who have some talent (just that they dont want to show it) but most of the people dont have any talent to show off and there are even some who have been studying guitar for less than a year..... (well maybe i could be wrong) but i believe that people who have talent (and if they come together) then they can make some great music that can inspire you rather than some bunch of friends who are in for some quick money.....

and to disturbedchyld, IMO - In My Opinion

sad but true... a lot of the newer bands are just in it for the money...

just for the record though, i think korn didn't give nu metal a bad name... i think they should be appreciated for coming up with something new.. and coming up with something new is always met with disapproval by stereotypes...

what gave nu metal as well as the rest of rock a bad name were the bands that followed (and more often than not, imitated) korn... it's such a shame...

shaketherim
06-20-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
ywah i agree with most of what you said, and maybe some people just want to play powercords and maybe some people cant play anything other than powerchords, and i dont understand why everybody says nu-metal sounds better, what exactly does that mean to you?... ,its easier to play?pleasing to the ears, ....
and dosent better musicians generally make better music?... or am i wrong?....


People mostly thinks it sounds better because it is pleasing to the ears. It's usually angry music, so it's often satisfying to listen to, whenever I'm angry, I can just play some of it loud and that releases a lot. And, no, better musicians don't necessarily make better music, let's say there were two guys. Guy one is an amazing guitarist, and guy two is not great, but good. Guy one might not be creative though, or might just be a lousy songwriter, but Guy Two can write a catchy, enjoyable song. So basically, yes, you were wrong.

desturbdchyld
06-20-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by shaketherim
People mostly thinks it sounds better because it is pleasing to the ears. It's usually angry music, so it's often satisfying to listen to, whenever I'm angry, I can just play some of it loud and that releases a lot. And, no, better musicians don't necessarily make better music, let's say there were two guys. Guy one is an amazing guitarist, and guy two is not great, but good. Guy one might not be creative though, or might just be a lousy songwriter, but Guy Two can write a catchy, enjoyable song. So basically, yes, you were wrong. Here's a much better example of it. Anyone remember Jimi Hendrix's supergroup?? And how baaad it was???

rokphoenix
06-21-2004, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
sad but true... a lot of the newer bands are just in it for the money...

just for the record though, i think korn didn't give nu metal a bad name... i think they should be appreciated for coming up with something new.. and coming up with something new is always met with disapproval by stereotypes...

what gave nu metal as well as the rest of rock a bad name were the bands that followed (and more often than not, imitated) korn... it's such a shame...

um... now that you mention it, i think most of thats what happened!... korn came out with their own style and others figured out that they dont need a lot of guitar playing talents to do something like that and so i guess everybody who has a guitar these days have a band :D but yeah there are more imitators in the industry than originals, and even korn arent good anymore.....

and to shaketherim, i dott agree with you there 'cos we are talking about a group of people, and if there are a group of people who are talented, i believe they can make some superior music. and cretivity comes with talent, i mean you play guitar for 5 or 6 years and you will be creative (or i believe so)....

numetaldude
06-21-2004, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
um... now that you mention it, i think most of thats what happened!... korn came out with their own style and others figured out that they dont need a lot of guitar playing talents to do something like that and so i guess everybody who has a guitar these days have a band :D but yeah there are more imitators in the industry than originals, and even korn arent good anymore.....

and to shaketherim, i dott agree with you there 'cos we are talking about a group of people, and if there are a group of people who are talented, i believe they can make some superior music. and cretivity comes with talent, i mean you play guitar for 5 or 6 years and you will be creative (or i believe so)....

yeah, i thought korn wasn't any good anymore.. but I came to realize that every album was unique.. the first was really gloomy and creepy.. one of the creepiest debuts ever... the second maintained the gloom but added a touch of humor..follow the leader had a more upbeat tone to it and a more poppy sound..

anyway, i think their latest album wasn't much good though... i was anticipating something amazing after "Did my time" came out.. i thought that was a great single.. the album was crap though, i have to say... untouchables was a lot better...

desturbdchyld
06-21-2004, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by shaketherim
People mostly thinks it sounds better because it is pleasing to the ears. It's usually angry music, so it's often satisfying to listen to, whenever I'm angry, I can just play some of it loud and that releases a lot. And, no, better musicians don't necessarily make better music, let's say there were two guys. Guy one is an amazing guitarist, and guy two is not great, but good. Guy one might not be creative though, or might just be a lousy songwriter, but Guy Two can write a catchy, enjoyable song. So basically, yes, you were wrong. As rokphoenix said, creativity comes with talent. And nu-metal bands typically arent very creative... they follow a predestined formula.

As to better musicians not making great music, I agree... sort of. One example would be Jimi Hendrix's Band of Gypsies. But worse musicians cannot make better music then beter musicians. Yningwie Malmstein isnt very creative, most of his stuff is very arpeggio-based, but still its better music then the Linkin Park formula.

Which brings us back to what is better music. Here is where I strongly disagree with you. There is a difference between good music and emotionally appealing music. I think good music serves the same purpose of a good book- lets have an analogy here. A good book, in my opinion, is not brief and unquenching, but full, thorough, and in essence a masterpiece, either being epic or romantic or terrifying or whatever. But emotionally appealing music is like a porno-romance novel. All it is is brief, pleasurable, trash. Now one may be more "enjoyable" to the other, but comparing a sleazy, sex filled song/or book to a masterpiece like JRR. Tolkein's The Lord of the Rings, or Nile's Unas Slayer of the Gods is a ridiculous sham. That is where I bridge nu-metal and metal. One is more pleasing to the masses (as said in George Orwell's 1984- prolefeed, useless crap fed to the proletariat) and one is filled with epic masterpieces.

There is of course some exceptions, i.e. the crappier metal and the better nu-metal. Now I'm Stephen King fan, dont get on my case for saying this, but the crappier metal is like Stephen King's the Stand. It still is an epic book, but it's rather sleazy and not anywhere comparable to the Lord of the Rings. And the better nu-metal is like a good romance novel ( I wouldn't know, I dont exactly read them), but I guess they'd have to be somewhere. But where you make the distinction is in the feel of the novel, or what its purpose is. Now Stephen King is on the verge of a "prolefeed" book, but still has the tone, and feel of an epic novel, just shoddily done. And the purpose of that Stephen King book is beyond just to please the masses, but to educate the reader on the battles between good and evil. And good porno-romance novels may be well written, but still have the tone and feel of someone trying to grasp the attention of the most people. Where one has a purpose the other is solely for the art of gaining fans and mostly, profits.

I think that analogy illustrated my opinion well, the thing is, whos gonna try and read it, lol!

Mantiscabinet
06-21-2004, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by spike_8bkp
I used to love nu-metal. LOVE it. It was my favorite genre of music in the entire world, I learned to play every song I could possibly think of. And now, I think it's not as good as I once thought, and I do think that a good deal of it sucks. These are my reasons:
I went to quite a few shows and talked with many of the "musicians" in those bands and I learned quite a bit about them. When I found that a few of these "nu-metal" bands were picked up by labels because of a single song, and that the guitarist had only been playing for something like 9 months before they got signed- it's like "what the hell?!" Anyone could get a record contract if this was this case. And indeed it was. When any two-bit angry kid could pick up an instrument, down tune a guitar, play it loud for a year and get singed to a two-deep label, something has to be fucking wrong.
Granted there are MANY great musicians in nu-metal (i.e. Ryan Martinie, Mick Thompson) and nu-metal is a good way for a musician to make a living, I believe in a thing called dignity, and for a musician with so much talent to be wasted in a band where he can't even used it is, well, a waste. Potential, people - USE IT.

Another reason: Themes. No, they are not all the same, but they all relate to each other almost as close as new hardcore music. Simply put, I grew tired of it. I became a writer, and I wanted my style to evolve past the "everybody hates me, pain is all I know" stage, and I did. Eventually, I grew to dislike the simplistic, uninspired, unoriginal themes of nu-metal (i.e. Adema, Korn, grade8). I also wished to become a more versatile, and technical guitarist. I've always been amazed by guitar solos, and in nu-metal, there are virtually none. I didn't like that, so I went in search of solos, leads, fast, technical runs that I couldn't dream of playing. Well, I found metal.

The fact that nu-metal is overtly popular has rarely, if ever, affected my judgement of it - metal is gaining popularity, and only from an elitist point of view can I find anything wrong with it. Nu-metal is the mainstream public's metal. As long as some pissed off kid has something to scream about, nu-metal will go on. I don't mind it being there. What I do mind is a band such as Disturbed (and please don't get me wrong, they are a good band for what they do) going around saying that they are a great metal band, or little ignorant fourteen year olds going around saying that Korn is better than any band I could ever possibly think of. I was one of those kids once upon a time. What I'd like is for people to smarten up, but this won't happen. What I'd like is for people to NOT take advantage of the music industry and become rich and famous for have virtually no true talent or originality at all, but again, this won't happen. I must let the dice fall where they may, and if this calls for letting some of the greatest musicians in the world go completely unnoticed, so be it.

THAT is why I don't care for nu-metal.

great opinion, but one thing, i'm fourteen and i don't think Korn is better than ne other band! i personally think that nu-metal is a good genre, i like the crude lyrics, and the bass is nevr bad in many of the bands...but i think that my parents saved me bi showing me deep purple, led zeppelin, queen, cream, eric clapton, etc., and my friend, who's shown me pantera (old), metallica, megadeth, black sabbath, yngwie malmsteen, slayer, and guns and roses. he also showed me lb, but that's besides the point. the thing is, i'll nevr LOVE nu-metal, i won't become a pissed off crazy kid, i won't get influenced...sure it's great music 2 listen 2 when u get pissed or u can't find ur zeppelin cds newhere, but not all the time type of thing...

SlipknotMetal
06-21-2004, 03:50 PM
Okay, I don't LOVE nu-metal, it's not one of my favorite genre's, but it does have t's fair share of AMAZING bands IE. slipKnoT and KoRn. As a person not *that* into nu-metal, but one that likes some nu-metal, I have a great negating opinion to all the assholes who just hate it for stupid reasons.

First- As for nu-metal bands being rap-metal... Oh! god! Are the simple minded a little afraid of CHANGE? Plus, you can't say anything is even PART metal if there's instruments. Rap is people talking fast about nothing to simulated beats... Rap is a mixture of techno and talking.

Second- Nu-metal isn't hard? Well god, of corse not if your going to compare it to things like Death/doom/grind/slash metal.... (4 of my like 8 FAVORITE genres) Normal METAL isn't hard compared to things like that... However, I can see where your coming from. I just have a question for you people who say that... Who the HELL said they were TRYING to be hard? They didn't label themselves as nu-METAL. The music industry did.

Third- Nu-metal isn't really main stream... However, taking this topic from the point of view where you eliminate everything but different types of metal genres... Then yes, out of all the metal genres nu-metal is the biggest, and it's still growing...

Fourth- Playing instruments... (I love slipKnoT so I'll take an example from them) First though... Just because your instrument is dropped/distorted doesn't mean you can't play it... It means you CAN play it, and would rather have it dropped/distorted. Next, how can you say that they can't play their instruments? At least most nu-metal bands have DIFFERENT sounding stuff, a lot of metal badns(within their respective genres)sound like other bands in the same genre, or have songs on their CD's that are almost all the same sounding, only with a few differences... LAST, at least SOME nu-metal bands can play their instruments... Otherwise, Metallica wouldn't have let Joey Jordison play in Lars' place... Sure, Metallica had others play, but after 3 peopel Joey palyed, then one more person, and then Metallica THEMSELVES aske Joey to come back and finish the rest of the night with them... Therefore at the VERY VERY LEAST, Joey can play his instrument... BTW, did you know, alot of nu-metalist also don't confine themselves to one instrument? So, maybe their not great on one, but they can make it up with another instrument they play on.

Fifth- Nu-metal bands lyrics... Alot of people say they suck... Let's compare it to other metal genre's (all of which I have knowledge of because, I won't talk about it if I don't know it)... Death Metal...Guess. The songs are all about death. Black metal, their lyrics are all about the devil, or christians being mind-warped idiots, or death. Doom metal - life sucks, oh ya, the end is near. The lyrics often draw upon philosophy, or life sucking. Thrash metal- lets all create some havoc, etc... Nu-metal - the lyrics to nu-metal bands are increadibly diverse for one genre. From stalking your wife (Slipknot) to abusive parents (disturbed) to life sucking (many examples of that one)... So piss off, nu-metal bands at least write lyrics that aren't the same...

Well, I'm sure there's also stuff I didn't cover, but I lost myself, and I'm about to leave... Lets just suffice it to say.. Nu-metal, not the best, DEFFINITLEY not the worst...

shaketherim
06-21-2004, 05:03 PM
^^ Nice man, I think you got it.

:cheers:

desturbdchyld
06-21-2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by SlipknotMetal
Okay, I don't LOVE nu-metal, it's not one of my favorite genre's, but it does have t's fair share of AMAZING bands IE. slipKnoT and KoRn. As a person not *that* into nu-metal, but one that likes some nu-metal, I have a great negating opinion to all the assholes who just hate it for stupid reasons.

First- As for nu-metal bands being rap-metal... Oh! god! Are the simple minded a little afraid of CHANGE? Plus, you can't say anything is even PART metal if there's instruments. Rap is people talking fast about nothing to simulated beats... Rap is a mixture of techno and talking.

Second- Nu-metal isn't hard? Well god, of corse not if your going to compare it to things like Death/doom/grind/slash metal.... (4 of my like 8 FAVORITE genres) Normal METAL isn't hard compared to things like that... However, I can see where your coming from. I just have a question for you people who say that... Who the HELL said they were TRYING to be hard? They didn't label themselves as nu-METAL. The music industry did.

Third- Nu-metal isn't really main stream... However, taking this topic from the point of view where you eliminate everything but different types of metal genres... Then yes, out of all the metal genres nu-metal is the biggest, and it's still growing...

Fourth- Playing instruments... (I love slipKnoT so I'll take an example from them) First though... Just because your instrument is dropped/distorted doesn't mean you can't play it... It means you CAN play it, and would rather have it dropped/distorted. Next, how can you say that they can't play their instruments? At least most nu-metal bands have DIFFERENT sounding stuff, a lot of metal badns(within their respective genres)sound like other bands in the same genre, or have songs on their CD's that are almost all the same sounding, only with a few differences... LAST, at least SOME nu-metal bands can play their instruments... Otherwise, Metallica wouldn't have let Joey Jordison play in Lars' place... Sure, Metallica had others play, but after 3 peopel Joey palyed, then one more person, and then Metallica THEMSELVES aske Joey to come back and finish the rest of the night with them... Therefore at the VERY VERY LEAST, Joey can play his instrument... BTW, did you know, alot of nu-metalist also don't confine themselves to one instrument? So, maybe their not great on one, but they can make it up with another instrument they play on.

Fifth- Nu-metal bands lyrics... Alot of people say they suck... Let's compare it to other metal genre's (all of which I have knowledge of because, I won't talk about it if I don't know it)... Death Metal...Guess. The songs are all about death. Black metal, their lyrics are all about the devil, or christians being mind-warped idiots, or death. Doom metal - life sucks, oh ya, the end is near. The lyrics often draw upon philosophy, or life sucking. Thrash metal- lets all create some havoc, etc... Nu-metal - the lyrics to nu-metal bands are increadibly diverse for one genre. From stalking your wife (Slipknot) to abusive parents (disturbed) to life sucking (many examples of that one)... So piss off, nu-metal bands at least write lyrics that aren't the same...

Well, I'm sure there's also stuff I didn't cover, but I lost myself, and I'm about to leave... Lets just suffice it to say.. Nu-metal, not the best, DEFFINITLEY not the worst...

I agree with number one, but rapmetal is a subgenre of nu-metal, if you will.

Who said nu-metal isnt hard?? We just accused it of being fake and whiny...

Nu-metal is the second most mainstream there is for teenagers. The most being rap, and nu-metal coming in second, with country as a close third. Think about it, nu-metal is SUPPOSED to be mainstream, thats the point of it, its simplistic in order to appeal to a wider spectrum of people.

Nu-metal bands are a lot worse at sounding the same. Every Linkin Park song, sounds exactly alike. Slipknot is mostly (apart from the new album) a barely distinguishable guitar riff with distraught screams dubbed over it. Maybe there is more variation in the nu-metal subgenre then any other genre, but nu-metal is more like a waste receptical then a subgenre, everything else goes there. Every metalhead agrees, Lars Ulrich is a fag, and no one agrees with what he does anyway.

Oh my god, number five is hilarious. Black metal is about satan, true, death metal is about death. And nu-metal is different? Its whining about how much life sucks!! Dont tell me abusive parents, stalking your wife, and life sucking dont have a similiarity here!

Good nu-metal lyrics "I did it for the nookie, so you can take that cookie, and shove it up your YEAH!"

:rolleyes:

SlipknotMetal
06-22-2004, 12:12 AM
The nu-metal-not-hard thing is from something I read in the normal metal forum...

I don't really agree with your ideas of mainstream... Taking a cue from MTV It'd go in the order of: rap, hip-hop, pop, r&b, pop-punk, nu-metal... But, to each his own right?

For the music bit, I was thinking really new and really old Fear Factory, and older Dimmu Borgir... Like I said in another thread, I don't consider LP nu-metal, I think they're a new genre... Nu-rock. They're jsut not hard enough, and they have an actual person that does only rapping.. What's up with that? Ne who... I also wasn't confining myself to guitars when I spoke of the instruments... Drummers really don't get enough credit... Sigh.

As for the last bit... The latter, yes are both life-sucks stuff... The first, stalking your wife. Well, Corey is happily married, so I'm assuming it has nothing to do with life sucking... Then, you went and proved yourself wrong... "I did it all for the nookie" Nookie is sex, therefore he did it for the sex... That's different, and has nothing to do with life sucking... But we can say that OVERALL it's generally lifesucking/hate/anger. It's not the MOST diverse, but it's more diverse than a lot... I'd actually take back what I said before, and say Doom metal is the most diverse.

neox the cow
06-22-2004, 12:16 AM
Ya know I dont think its even fair to use Limp dizkit in a fight anymore. They suck too much balls to be considered music.

SlipknotMetal
06-22-2004, 12:54 AM
lol...True.

neox the cow
06-22-2004, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
As rokphoenix said, creativity comes with talent. And nu-metal bands typically arent very creative... they follow a predestined formula.

As to better musicians not making great music, I agree... sort of. One example would be Jimi Hendrix's Band of Gypsies. But worse musicians cannot make better music then beter musicians. Yningwie Malmstein isnt very creative, most of his stuff is very arpeggio-based, but still its better music then the Linkin Park formula.

Which brings us back to what is better music. Here is where I strongly disagree with you. There is a difference between good music and emotionally appealing music. I think good music serves the same purpose of a good book- lets have an analogy here. A good book, in my opinion, is not brief and unquenching, but full, thorough, and in essence a masterpiece, either being epic or romantic or terrifying or whatever. But emotionally appealing music is like a porno-romance novel. All it is is brief, pleasurable, trash. Now one may be more "enjoyable" to the other, but comparing a sleazy, sex filled song/or book to a masterpiece like JRR. Tolkein's The Lord of the Rings, or Nile's Unas Slayer of the Gods is a ridiculous sham. That is where I bridge nu-metal and metal. One is more pleasing to the masses (as said in George Orwell's 1984- prolefeed, useless crap fed to the proletariat) and one is filled with epic masterpieces.

There is of course some exceptions, i.e. the crappier metal and the better nu-metal. Now I'm Stephen King fan, dont get on my case for saying this, but the crappier metal is like Stephen King's the Stand. It still is an epic book, but it's rather sleazy and not anywhere comparable to the Lord of the Rings. And the better nu-metal is like a good romance novel ( I wouldn't know, I dont exactly read them), but I guess they'd have to be somewhere. But where you make the distinction is in the feel of the novel, or what its purpose is. Now Stephen King is on the verge of a "prolefeed" book, but still has the tone, and feel of an epic novel, just shoddily done. And the purpose of that Stephen King book is beyond just to please the masses, but to educate the reader on the battles between good and evil. And good porno-romance novels may be well written, but still have the tone and feel of someone trying to grasp the attention of the most people. Where one has a purpose the other is solely for the art of gaining fans and mostly, profits.

I think that analogy illustrated my opinion well, the thing is, whos gonna try and read it, lol!

The best way I've seen the situation be described.

:cheers:

rokphoenix
06-22-2004, 06:44 AM
to SlipknotMetal, dude dont argue that nu-metal is not mainstream.... like somebody said before somwehere "it was the non-conformist way of sying that "i dont listen to mainstream music" but it bacame a parallel along the lines of mainstream music".... and right now i think any nu-metal band (regardles of how talentless they are) gets more exposure than even a decent metal band.... and allmost all of the bands that are featured on T.Vor radio are nu-metal bands, singing and playing the same stuff over and over again with little variation and even more less passion for the music they play.....
but i agree with you that there are some good nu-metal bands, but that dosent even make up for the 1% of the total nu-metal bands out there today.
to your second point, nu-metal is industry driven, it goes with whatever is hot at the moment, and thats why most of them even got themselves a deal with the industry....
and nu-metal lyrics, most of them are just the same thing, written in a different manner each time around and yes nu-metal is not the best but is as close to being the worst as possible, except a few bands...
now i am not overly bashing nu-metal, just saying all this for the argument (and what i believe)

hey desturbdchyld that was a good job with the reference to books and all.... :cheers:

numetaldude
06-22-2004, 07:53 AM
ok... my first point is that nu metal is mainstream.. but then again so was led zeppelin, ACDC, metallica, black sabbath, guns n roses.. should i go on? besides, I don't think you see too many nu metal bands on TV... korn, deftones, evanescence, LP, LB, system of a down, godsmack.... yep, i guess those are the only nu metal bands i see on MTV nowadays and very seldom, too, if i may say (i live in the southeast asia so I guess that makes a difference)..

secondly, i have to say that saying nu metal is all about how life sucks is totally stereotyping.. i've made this argument in a thread long ago (or was it this thread? :confused:) well, anyway.. listen to deftones and try to find at least 3 songs that are about how life sucks... they sing about rebellion, sex, and some bizarre stuff like how someone changed into a fly and how we are all anemic... yeah, i just can't decipher what it all means but it sounds good! :) now listen to system of a down "I went on a date with a girl to get laid, she had so many friends.." where's the part that says life sucks? and listen to Korn's stuff like "ADIDAS, Justin, Low Rider, Twist" and "Wake UP"... i don't hear anything about how life sucks... and Rage Against The Machine.. self-explanatory..

desturbdchyld
06-22-2004, 10:44 AM
to RokPhoenix- thanks, dude :cheers:


Originally posted by numetaldude
ok... my first point is that nu metal is mainstream.. but then again so was led zeppelin, ACDC, metallica, black sabbath, guns n roses.. should i go on? besides, I don't think you see too many nu metal bands on TV... korn, deftones, evanescence, LP, LB, system of a down, godsmack.... yep, i guess those are the only nu metal bands i see on MTV nowadays and very seldom, too, if i may say (i live in the southeast asia so I guess that makes a difference)..

secondly, i have to say that saying nu metal is all about how life sucks is totally stereotyping.. i've made this argument in a thread long ago (or was it this thread? :confused:) well, anyway.. listen to deftones and try to find at least 3 songs that are about how life sucks... they sing about rebellion, sex, and some bizarre stuff like how someone changed into a fly and how we are all anemic... yeah, i just can't decipher what it all means but it sounds good! :) now listen to system of a down "I went on a date with a girl to get laid, she had so many friends.." where's the part that says life sucks? and listen to Korn's stuff like "ADIDAS, Justin, Low Rider, Twist" and "Wake UP"... i don't hear anything about how life sucks... and Rage Against The Machine.. self-explanatory..

We never said anything mainstream sucks, we just said that being mainstream for the sake of being mainstream is a bad thing.

Deftones are considered art-metal, so thats different. Plus there will be exceptions to eery rule, but as I said in an earlier post its either about sex, or life sucking. And rage against the machine is talking about how the government sucks...
nice try :p:

SlipknotMetal
06-22-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
to SlipknotMetal, dude dont argue that nu-metal is not mainstream.... like somebody said before somwehere "it was the non-conformist way of sying that "i dont listen to mainstream music" but it bacame a parallel along the lines of mainstream music".... and right now i think any nu-metal band (regardles of how talentless they are) gets more exposure than even a decent metal band.... and allmost all of the bands that are featured on T.Vor radio are nu-metal bands, singing and playing the same stuff over and over again with little variation and even more less passion for the music they play.....

I wouldn't know about the exposure thing... I rarely listen to the radio, and on T.V. all I ever watch is the Metal channel, giving plenty more "metal" than nu-metal. However, on the RARE occasions that I watch something like MTV, nu-metal bands really don't get much exposure... LP and Evenesscence are the only nu-metal bands that really get played "regularly." Why? Because, they suck and have happy-go-lucky lyrics compared to the REST of nu-metal. (and LP because, they have a rapper... He does the rapping... Nothing but...rap? It scares me... And so they're populat because, preppy people can go, "well, I listen to them. But..., they have a rapper.")

GoodCharloteSux
06-22-2004, 03:26 PM
i thought that the slipknots guitarist sucked until there new album..... they really have some awesome songs........ I really dont carev for most new metal because of the guitar skills. Korn Limp Bizkit etc. But there are certain bands that are said to be nu metal which they are not S.O.A.D and Incubus

SlipknotMetal
06-22-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by GoodCharloteSux
i thought that the slipknots guitarist sucked until there new album..... they really have some awesome songs........ I really dont carev for most new metal because of the guitar skills. Korn Limp Bizkit etc. But there are certain bands that are said to be nu metal which they are not S.O.A.D and Incubus

They didn't suck until the new album... They just hadn't showed their true talent until the new album... But I'm glad you thought the new album had good guitar-playing. SOAD is nu-metal... incubus - iffy, but SOAD is.

scheck006
06-23-2004, 01:45 AM
Incubus is modern rock..

rokphoenix
06-23-2004, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by SlipknotMetal
I wouldn't know about the exposure thing... I rarely listen to the radio, and on T.V. all I ever watch is the Metal channel, giving plenty more "metal" than nu-metal. However, on the RARE occasions that I watch something like MTV, nu-metal bands really don't get much exposure... LP and Evenesscence are the only nu-metal bands that really get played "regularly." Why? Because, they suck and have happy-go-lucky lyrics compared to the REST of nu-metal. (and LP because, they have a rapper... He does the rapping... Nothing but...rap? It scares me... And so they're populat because, preppy people can go, "well, I listen to them. But..., they have a rapper.")

dude i am from INDIA, a place where METAL IS NEVER ON T.V (read that never ever, ever), and i dont watch tv for music, i know that 'cos my sis asks me things about the bands featured on T.V and that she saw and thats how i know that. and i didnt know that you guys have a METAL channel....... and dont tell me that LP and evanescence are the only bands that get featured on t.v, most (real almost all) of the bands being maufactured (thats right) come on the music channels available today 'cos thats what most of the people like to see and listen to..... and they have no point in putting some METAL song 'cos most people would just switch channels or turnof their tv sets or whatever....
and you keep saying "rest of nu-metal", why dont you give some band names to support that?..
and you say that you love metal more than nu-metal and then how come that not one metal band is listen in your profile?...

scheck006
06-23-2004, 02:02 AM
I do agree with the point made about drummers not getting credit...most nu-metal bands have real good drummers...SOAD, TOOL, Slipknot...

Okay, here is a question...what are we arguing about anyways?

we all know nu-metal is more mainstream...metal died out about 15 years ago.

We all know metal has more intricate guitar work, and that nu-metal is more about the vocals in the song. I really don't hear anyone, even nu-metal fans saying. "Dude this riff is awesome" because it is really just meant as a backer for the vocals.

We all know that the lyrics are different...

We all know the guitar players probably could do something better, but just choose not to. Believe me, anyone who's been playing guitar for 10 years and has 3-4 solid selling albums is not someone for you to criticize...



once you accept those facts, its really down to just personal choice on which you like the most...I really don't see how any guitar player could like nu-metal, but that's just me. I'm sure other people think the same way and if I want my music to teach me more about guitar, then I'll listen to the one that gives me more of a challenge. If anyone else wants to leave the challenge up to their guitar teacher, and listen to the music that they feel is more appealing to them. By all means, don't sit here and argue with anyone of us...

SlipknotMetal
06-23-2004, 02:47 AM
Damn scheck006, that was a good post... Props to you.

rokphoenix : I said LP and Evenessence (and I'll add KoRn beause, I forgot to in that post, but they need to be there.) because, that is the only thing I ever see getting played that's nu-metal... I'm not saying true metal is played more, I'm just saying out of the nu-metal genre, that's all I ever see getting played REGULARLY. Mostly what gets played if it's not on a genre-specific channel is rap/hip-hop/punk... At least from what *I've* seen.

P.S. Just to make you happy I rewrote my profile, now check it for true metal bands that I like.
P.P.S. they weren't on there before because, I was just thinking of crap off the top of my head, and those all of something to do with slipKnoT except for one... I'm obsessed with slipKnoT, so I put those... Check though, the new one is better.

rokphoenix
06-23-2004, 03:25 AM
^er.. sorry dude, i was just wondering.... no hard feelings :cheers: and this list is much much better that the last one (believe me)

to scheck006, first of all metal never died, it just went underground..... and now its coming out in the open again... and we did agree that nu-metal have SOME good musicians, but most of them are just crap. and metal has some of the best guitar, drum, vocal or whatever you take.... and why the hell do you expect me to appreciate something thats just a "backup for the vocals", and you accepting that makes it even worse..... and maybe the guitar players really cant do very much about it....

and i didnt exactly get you point with the last paragraph, but i have listened to a fair amount of nu-metal and lots and lots of metal and i can say without much doubt that on any given day i'd rather listen to metal (but thats just me)

and this is going around in circles

scheck006
06-23-2004, 01:48 PM
that's what I meant...it went out of mainstream 15 years ago...and isn't that what I said? I said I didn't really like nu-metal, but there are people out there and its kind of pointless to argue: NO THIS ONE'S BETTER!

I don't expect you to appreciate nu-metal, (even I don't) I was just saying that other people like it, and you don't have to listen to it if you don't want to. Also, I accept the fact that the guitars are a backing for the vocals because I don't like the music as my personal taste...as in its not really anything to worry about.

rokphoenix
06-24-2004, 07:11 AM
^ arent we here to discuss (or debate) on these things?...
not i dont like a lot of nu-metal, but that dosent mean anything.

and why the hell does it matter if metal went out of mainstream (as yo say) 15 years ago?.... and nu-metal came about just about 7 or 8 years ago. it just went underground, to be played to people who really can appreciate the music..

numetaldude
06-24-2004, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
to RokPhoenix- thanks, dude :cheers:




We never said anything mainstream sucks, we just said that being mainstream for the sake of being mainstream is a bad thing.

Deftones are considered art-metal, so thats different. Plus there will be exceptions to eery rule, but as I said in an earlier post its either about sex, or life sucking. And rage against the machine is talking about how the government sucks...
nice try :p:

ok, so explain to me why deftones are art-metal and not nu metal...

and i like to consider rage against the machine as "positive" music, since they don't only talk about how democracy sucks, they talk about how it could become much better. (socialism's the way to go! ;) )

and by the way, "justin" is about giving hope to a kid who was dying of cancer. "all in the family" is an old school hip hop battle thing with fred durst.. and "twist" is just some gibberish - meaningless but totally awesome.. you said there are exceptions to every rule.. i just thought I could give some examples..

:cheers:

besides, i think nu metal and metal are both about how life sucks, but they approach it from different angles.. while nu metal uses the helpless, whining approach (which isn't at all bad), while metal uses the angry, powerful approach. AS to which approach is better is just a matter of opinion.

and scheck's post is probably the best in this entire thread...

numetaldude
06-24-2004, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
^er.. sorry dude, i was just wondering.... no hard feelings :cheers: and this list is much much better that the last one (believe me)

to scheck006, first of all metal never died, it just went underground..... and now its coming out in the open again... and we did agree that nu-metal have SOME good musicians, but most of them are just crap. and metal has some of the best guitar, drum, vocal or whatever you take.... and why the hell do you expect me to appreciate something thats just a "backup for the vocals", and you accepting that makes it even worse..... and maybe the guitar players really cant do very much about it....

and i didnt exactly get you point with the last paragraph, but i have listened to a fair amount of nu-metal and lots and lots of metal and i can say without much doubt that on any given day i'd rather listen to metal (but thats just me)

and this is going around in circles

no one expects you to appreciate something that's just a "backup for the vocals".. but some people don't like guitar at all so you can't expect them to care about the guitars in a song.. and please don't say that guitarists are superior to people who don't know guitar..

yup, metal has some of the best drums, bass, and vocals. but so does nu metal... i dare say joey jordison is a better drummer than 90% of true metal drummers... if you disagree, try to watch him in a video...

desturbdchyld
06-24-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
ok, so explain to me why deftones are art-metal and not nu metal...

and i like to consider rage against the machine as "positive" music, since they don't only talk about how democracy sucks, they talk about how it could become much better. (socialism's the way to go! ;) )

and by the way, "justin" is about giving hope to a kid who was dying of cancer. "all in the family" is an old school hip hop battle thing with fred durst.. and "twist" is just some gibberish - meaningless but totally awesome.. you said there are exceptions to every rule.. i just thought I could give some examples..

:cheers:

besides, i think nu metal and metal are both about how life sucks, but they approach it from different angles.. while nu metal uses the helpless, whining approach (which isn't at all bad), while metal uses the angry, powerful approach. AS to which approach is better is just a matter of opinion.

and scheck's post is probably the best in this entire thread...

Deftones are more experimentational, and they don't sound that nu-metal. I still don't like them, but they have a different style, and they are much more musically educated then most of nu-metal, and it shows in their playing.

Rage Against the Machine are rarely positive. Most of their songs are about how bad the current system, and how much it sucks. They only hint towards the better option and dont sing a full blast song about it. So I'm sorry, I disagree with you there (I own renegades and battle for los angeles, and my sis owns the other two).

But the fact that its meaningless is rather characteristic of nu-metal, for most of it is meaningless bursts of either false agression or just whining.

But I agree with the last opinion there. But that's where I cant think why people like nu-metal, I just hate whining myself, so thats why I dislike it.

A funny story, I have a few freinds who were Linkin Park, Slipknot fans, and we traded music, and they were all unbelievably shocked hearing bands like Dream Theater, and Metallica, and how much better music can be.

:cheers:

rokphoenix
06-24-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
no one expects you to appreciate something that's just a "backup for the vocals".. but some people don't like guitar at all so you can't expect them to care about the guitars in a song.. and please don't say that guitarists are superior to people who don't know guitar..

yup, metal has some of the best drums, bass, and vocals. but so does nu metal... i dare say joey jordison is a better drummer than 90% of true metal drummers... if you disagree, try to watch him in a video...

when the hell did i say that guitarists are superior to people who dont know guitar?.... i said metal has better musicians, and i dont remember saying anything that says that they are "Superior" human beings..... i dont know a single person who likes metal and dont like guitars (their maybe be a drummer, but they do like the guitars). and if people dont like guitars then why listen to something that IS guitar oriented...
now we can argue about this all we want and come to no conclusion, but i really really dont agree that joey s better than 90% of the metal drummers.... i mean most of the death metal and black metal drummers are just insane. and i have watched a slipknot live video, where joey does a drum solo and it didnt really impress me or naything (but that could be just me) .....
dude, some people like metal some people like nu-metal and i like metal so i argur on its behalf, and you dont, so dont take anything personally.....
and i definitely did not say that guitarists are superior humans....

desturbdchyld
06-24-2004, 09:55 AM
Joey Jordinson... better then metal drummers....

yeah, sure, listen to some Slayer, or some Thrash/Speed Metal dude, these guys can do stuff with a double bass that Jordinson can only dream about.


But RokPhoenix put it nicely too :cheers:

scheck006
06-24-2004, 08:44 PM
or mike portnoy...:p: just listen to the stuff he does just after the solo In "As I AM"

Rokphoenix...

THat is exactly what I said, its pointless to argue because it won't come to a conclusion. All the points that have been made are accepted by both sides they just choose to listen to whatever they want to...nuff said...

guitardude72565
06-25-2004, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
Joey Jordinson... better then metal drummers....

yeah, sure, listen to some Slayer, or some Thrash/Speed Metal dude, these guys can do stuff with a double bass that Jordinson can only dream about.


But RokPhoenix put it nicely too :cheers: :cheers:

SlipknotMetal
06-25-2004, 02:47 AM
Guitardude, will you ever get your own opinion that you argue yourself with good information/reasoning?

rokphoenix
06-25-2004, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by scheck006

Rokphoenix...

THat is exactly what I said, its pointless to argue because it won't come to a conclusion. All the points that have been made are accepted by both sides they just choose to listen to whatever they want to...nuff said...

but its arguments like these that keep this place alive... and whats the fun otherwise?... :D

numetaldude
06-25-2004, 06:49 AM
rokphoenix: i didn't say you said that guitarists were superior.. i just asked you nicely (note the "please") not to say it coz there was a small chance you might.. :D

and yeah, i listen to slayer and speed metal but i just find their drumming to be too organized... joey doesn't do many drum soloes, but the way he plays to the song is just awesome... and he doesn't play the usual bass-snare pattern either... he goes with any unorthodox beat that blends in with the rest of the music..

desturbdchyld
06-25-2004, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by scheck006
or mike portnoy...:p: just listen to the stuff he does just after the solo In "As I AM"

Rokphoenix...

THat is exactly what I said, its pointless to argue because it won't come to a conclusion. All the points that have been made are accepted by both sides they just choose to listen to whatever they want to...nuff said... I know, that's probably my favorite Dream Theater song (or maybe the 14 minute long instrumental on that CD). He's a fantastic drummer, and I forgot to mention him, thanks for the reminder.

:cheers:

desturbdchyld
06-25-2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by numetaldude
rokphoenix: i didn't say you said that guitarists were superior.. i just asked you nicely (note the "please") not to say it coz there was a small chance you might.. :D

and yeah, i listen to slayer and speed metal but i just find their drumming to be too organized... joey doesn't do many drum soloes, but the way he plays to the song is just awesome... and he doesn't play the usual bass-snare pattern either... he goes with any unorthodox beat that blends in with the rest of the music.. lol, a rhythm section is supposed to be organized, that's why they are called a rhythm section, to keep the beat for the band, with the occasional solo to show off their chops.

guitardude72565
06-25-2004, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by SlipknotMetal
Guitardude, will you ever get your own opinion that you argue yourself with good information/reasoning?

maybe one day :sad:

desturbdchyld
06-25-2004, 08:41 PM
^^:haha

He's actually quite a smart guy in the metal forum, so he does have an opinion, SlipknotMetal, he just doesn't care that much about nu-metal.

numetaldude
06-25-2004, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
lol, a rhythm section is supposed to be organized, that's why they are called a rhythm section, to keep the beat for the band, with the occasional solo to show off their chops.

that's usually the case.. but it's not a law, just a tradition.. never hurts to go against the flow, right? i mean, everything about rock started with defiance against tradition. it's how new things are started..

:cheers:

scheck006
06-25-2004, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
I know, that's probably my favorite Dream Theater song (or maybe the 14 minute long instrumental on that CD).
:cheers:

lol, not that the others are bad by any means...that instrumental rules...and then the solo on the next song is unplayable ;)

rokphoenix
06-26-2004, 04:31 AM
numetaldude : why do you think i'll say something like that?.... now i feel depressed. :(

and listen to some decapitated, their drummer is fucking insane. and i always thought that slayer had some decent (if not good) drumming. but hey i dont know a lot about drums.

numetaldude
06-26-2004, 06:16 AM
^ i mean, some people in here (not including you! :D) do sound like guitar makes them superior.. i'm sorry if i caused your depression... :(

just for the record, i'm not bashing true metal's drumming. that would be stupid. metal has excellent drumming i tell you that.. but there are some nu metal drummers that are at par with or even better than most metal drummers.. joey jordison is one of em.. david silveria is another.. the fills he does with the double bass (like in "Faget") are just ingenius. just to make my opinion clear, here's what i think are the best genres for each instrument:

vocals - classic rock, modern rock
guitars - classic rock, metal, blues
bass - funk, modern rock, nu metal
drums - metal, nu metal, pop punk

sorry if i didn't mention punk or hardcore here..anyway, punks don't care for talent, right? this list is totally just my opinion..

rokphoenix
06-26-2004, 06:25 AM
okay, i respect that its your opinion. but i dont agree with any of that especially the drums being the best in POP-PUNK??????

and i dont understand why people think that metal dont have any good vocalists. i think they there are some pretty excellent vocalists in metal, like mikkeal, who can growl one moment and then in the next take an extremely soothing voice. and the only thing i agree with you even the least bit is the guitar part :D . and its also intresting to se that you mentioned nu-metal just once in the drums. (am not trying to prove anything there, just an observation)
and i still dont understand why you Joey in such high esteem?...

numetaldude
06-26-2004, 06:35 AM
well, pop punk does have some great drummers.. like travis barker and tre cool..

and consider this about joey.. most of the time you hear a slipknot song and you think some of the things you hear are the percussions coz like you just can't imagine those sounds coming from the drums.. but when you see the video, you see that it's actually the drums and not the percussions. one example is the my plague into. it's just an excellent, untraditional mixture of bass, snare, and cymbals...plus he incorporates some moves while playing... which is pretty difficult for an extremely short guy who has to stand up from time to time just to reach some of the cymbals..

thrash metal has great vocalists, i can give you that.. hetfield, the guy from iron maiden, etc... but the rest of metal just gives the entire genre's vocal work a bad name... cannibal corpse and slayer.. these are two of the many metal bands that I think have sucky vocals..

rokphoenix
06-26-2004, 06:52 AM
^ well first of all Iron maiden are not thrash metal, they are just the traditional heavy metal.
okay and maybe what you say about is true and he does use some cool effects (i dont know excatly), but still that dosent make him batter than other drummers that maybe you havent even heard about. and on the voclas, why do you have to think about black, or grind everytime, ('cos most people may not appreciate their efforts) there are more genres and also more talented singers. maybe you are trying to go with the conventional wisdom that metal is all about "just" mindless Screaming
or maybe i got you wrong there

desturbdchyld
06-26-2004, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by scheck006
lol, not that the others are bad by any means...that instrumental rules...and then the solo on the next song is unplayable ;) they all are unplayable to me, lol. I'm not quite up to shredding yet :p:

desturbdchyld
06-26-2004, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
^ well first of all Iron maiden are not thrash metal, they are just the traditional heavy metal.
okay and maybe what you say about is true and he does use some cool effects (i dont know excatly), but still that dosent make him batter than other drummers that maybe you havent even heard about. and on the voclas, why do you have to think about black, or grind everytime, ('cos most people may not appreciate their efforts) there are more genres and also more talented singers. maybe you are trying to go with the conventional wisdom that metal is all about "just" mindless Screaming
or maybe i got you wrong there I can't argue with you there.

To numetaldudes comment on the vocals, I agree, the vocals aren't exactly pleasent to listen to in my opinion, but metal isn't about the vocals, it's about the guitar.

numetaldude
06-26-2004, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by rokphoenix
^ well first of all Iron maiden are not thrash metal, they are just the traditional heavy metal.
okay and maybe what you say about is true and he does use some cool effects (i dont know excatly), but still that dosent make him batter than other drummers that maybe you havent even heard about. and on the voclas, why do you have to think about black, or grind everytime, ('cos most people may not appreciate their efforts) there are more genres and also more talented singers. maybe you are trying to go with the conventional wisdom that metal is all about "just" mindless Screaming
or maybe i got you wrong there


well, i really don't have the credentials to criticize metal.. since practically no metal reaches the shores of my tiny country (i'm from the philippines.. a lot more isolated than india)... so please don't take my comments too seriously..

so basically, i'm just talking about the metal i've heard... that's iron maiden, dream theatre, metallica, megadeth, black sabbath, sepultura, pantera, cannibal corpse.. yeah, those are practically the only metal bands i've heard.. among those, the only ones with vocals i like are dream theatre and metallica.. they're pretty good but they're not like "wow!" to me.. iron maiden is just okay.. sepultura has a pretty effective growl.. i find megadeth and pantera vocals to be simply irritating.. i think ozzy is overrated in terms of talent (his showmanship is unmatched though). and the vocals to cannibal corpse is just awful. again, my opinions are simply based on the things i've listend to and are not to be taken seriously.. and that is why metal vocals do not impress me.. what impresses me though are the works of robert plant, freddie mercury, bon scott, etc.. which is why i placed classic rock there! :)

scheck006
06-26-2004, 03:11 PM
heres my version of your list.


Guitar - Jazz
Bass - Jazz
Drums - Jazz
Vocals...I don't know

desturbdchyld
06-26-2004, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by scheck006
heres my version of your list.


Guitar - Jazz
Bass - Jazz
Drums - Jazz
Vocals...I don't know
Guitar- Blues
Bass- Jazz
Drums- Metal/Jazz
Clean Vocals- Hard Rock
Unclean Vocals (lol)- Metal

Punkrocker-lp
06-26-2004, 07:59 PM
p.s. as far as slipknot goes, i can take them or leave them (personally). but i cannot critisize bands that have 3 solid selling albums and legions of fans that will do anything for them. untill you can say the same...

see? thats a major point (3 solid selling albums, and a legion of fans) as long as a band has those 2 things, nobody should critisize them, obviously they're doing something right

desturbdchyld
06-26-2004, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Punkrocker-lp
see? thats a major point (3 solid selling albums, and a legion of fans) as long as a band has those 2 things, nobody should critisize them, obviously they're doing something right Well lets see, both of those are involved with fans. So if you appeal to the most people, then you are doing something right... Not nessicarily.

And the reason that they sold those albums is surely debatable.

numetaldude
06-26-2004, 10:09 PM
^ selling albums definitely means you're doing something right, whether it be in marketing or in the music..

scheck006
06-27-2004, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by desturbdchyld
Guitar- Blues
Bass- Jazz
Drums- Metal/Jazz
Clean Vocals- Hard Rock
Unclean Vocals (lol)- Metal


(from a guitar point of view)
why blues? Jazz is much more complex and most of the time more technical...not to mention jazz usually requires a lot of training and theory where blues is something you just kind of pickup as you go along...learn a few licks here and there, practice improv a bunch and you'll be pretty good...

numetaldude
06-27-2004, 07:39 AM
^ yeah, blues are kinda easy to play once you know your scales.

numetaldude
06-27-2004, 07:55 AM
hey i know this is WAY off-topic, but i just thought i'd say this in this thread, since I don't wana start a new thread in the metal forum about it...

this is addressed to the metalheads.. what do you think of "hollow years" by dream theater? i just downloaded it when my friend told me it was the only dream theater song he likes.. and i think it's just beautiful.. the guitars aren't as technical as other dream theatre songs, but i think it's the most beautiful song i've heard from em.. what do you think?

scheck006
06-27-2004, 05:17 PM
they have a lot of those songs...if that's the only DT song he likes, then he hasn't heard much of them...

scheck006
06-27-2004, 05:30 PM
if your into that melodic stuff, check out these tracks as well

"Goodnight kiss"
"Misunderstood"
"Solitary Shell"
"Overture 1928"
"Blind Faith" - I don't know if you'll like it, but it has a great jazz solo...

btw, did you ever get train of thought? Its my favorite albumn of theirs, but Doesn't have many slow songs...

desturbdchyld
06-27-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by scheck006
if your into that melodic stuff, check out these tracks as well

"Goodnight kiss"
"Misunderstood"
"Solitary Shell"
"Overture 1928"
"Blind Faith" - I don't know if you'll like it, but it has a great jazz solo...

btw, did you ever get train of thought? Its my favorite albumn of theirs, but Doesn't have many slow songs... train of thought is the only album of theirs that I have, I was thinking of getting Images and Words next.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm into the melodic stuff as well, but I don't want it to stop being metal.

scheck006
06-27-2004, 07:30 PM
right...I would get the DVD if I were you. Its ace.

desturbdchyld
06-27-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by scheck006
right...I would get the DVD if I were you. Its ace. I'll look into that then, it will be amusing to look at someone playing that fast.

scheck006
06-27-2004, 07:37 PM
the albumn they play on that DVD is more technical than TOT

Check into the songs...Erotomania and the dance of eternity...

desturbdchyld
06-27-2004, 07:40 PM
What album do they play on the DVD? Is it included on a CD, or do I have to buy it separately?

scheck006
06-27-2004, 07:45 PM
its the live version of Metropolis PT2.

you can buy the studio cd, or the performance. (or both!) :p:

It doesn't really matter, they sound just like their studio work anyways...something that you don't hear many bands do.
Even megadeth's live sound sucks...

desturbdchyld
06-27-2004, 07:48 PM
^^Even Led Zeppelin sounds pretty bad live.

But I'll definately buy that sometime this week.

And another question- Is Images and Words a heavy album, or does that start with Awake?

scheck006
06-27-2004, 07:59 PM
I haven't heard images and words, but there earlier stuff wasn't as heavy...they kind of got heavier as they went along...

like LTE, its not heavy at all, but still mind blowing...

(liquid Tension Experiment) Petrucci's side project...basically dream theater...with portnoy...petrucii wanted to play with portnoy but had another drummer with dream theater...so...