How to make 9th and 7th courds


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PychoArtRocker
06-24-2004, 01:55 AM
How do you make 9th and 7th courds. Ex:you make a C with C,E,G but how do you make that C a C7?

Burn in hell
06-24-2004, 02:02 AM
add a note to the triad.

redwing_suck
06-24-2004, 02:19 AM
^^ok.... shut up.

the basic chord beyond a triad goes: 1 3 5 7... now, alterations to each of those notes determines the chord name and type.... i'm assuming you know how to come up with the Cmajor scale, so let's go from there.

C D E F G A B

Cmajor triad (your basic C chord) = C E G... 1-3-5...
Cmaj7 (read "C major seven") = C E G B

that is your basic maj7 chord.

now, in your reference to "C7", that IS a seventh chord, but do not mistake it with a major or minor seventh chord.... it means C dominant 7, with the intervals 1 3 5 b7... close to your maj7 chord from above, but the seventh is lowered.... so C7 = C E G Bb....

i assume you know how to make a minor triad as well... 1 b3 5.... now, a minor seventh chord has the intervals 1 b3 5 b7... any chord with those intervals is a m7 (minor seventh, also seen as -7) chord.

a diminished seventh chord is 1 b3 b5 b7... AKA half diminished, fully diminished chord is 1 b3 b5 bb7.... but dont worry too much now about chords beyond major and minor sevenths.

the 9th chords go 1 step farther... know that 2=9, 4=11, and 6=13.....

so a maj9 chord would have the intervals of 1 3 5 7 9.... Cmaj9 = C E G B D.... minor 9th chords are 1 b3 5 b7 9.... same as your minor seventh chords, except with that 9 on the end.... it is not flat like, say, the 3rd and the 7th, because in your basic minor scale (mostly aeolian, sometimes dorian scales) the 2nd (9th) is natural, so it is left that way in the chord....

so, you go from triads (1-3-5) to tetrads (1-3-5-7) to 9th chords (1-3-5-7-9).... it's all built up in order like that (but dont assume a maj7 chord HAS to be in that order on your guitar.... it usually wont be like that, maybe 1-5-1-3-7-9 or a variation on that, however it is still a maj9 chord either way).

adding 2nds and 4ths and 6ths without building them up in the exact order makes them "add" tones.... a 1-3-5-2 chord would be a major triad with an "add 2" or "(2)".... but that goes more into naming chords than chord construction.... so, try not to be confused by that.

now, if you went in the order of 1-3-5-7-9(2)-11(4)-6(13) on a chord, although not possible on a guitar, would be a maj13 chord.... typically on guitar you'll see it stacked 1-3-5-7-13... it's assumed it's a maj13. but that's your basic order of tones.... 1 3 5 7 9 11 13.... in that order of "strengths" as it is called. notice: seven tones, and there are seven notes in a (diatonic) scale... the order of strengths tells you how the order of the "power" of each tone in the scale to give the chord its characteristics..... obviously the root is first, the third is next (cause it determines major/minor), then the fifth (determines diminished or not), then the seventh (determines dominance)... then the add tones, really only "flavor notes" when you use them separately (they serve the same purpose in both scale playing, like in a solo, and chord playing, like in a rhythm.... this is where one begins to see that chords and scales are the exact same thing).

once again...

triads: (should know these first)
maj = 1-3-5
min = 1-b3-5
dim = 1-b3-b5
aug = 1-3-#5

tetrads (7ths):
maj7 = 1-3-5-7
m7 = 1-b3-5-b7
dom7 (like "C7") = 1-3-5-b7
m7b5 (half diminished) = 1-b3-b5-b7
(there are others, but dont worry for now...)

9ths:
maj9 = 1-3-5-7-9
m9 = 1-b3-5-b7-9

just learn what notes you use to build up the extensions, dont worry so much about the names yet.

any questions? you know the drill...


redwing:cheers:

Junkstuff1
06-24-2004, 10:29 AM
Dominant 9th is implied by a "9" after the root. So a C9 is a dominant 7th chord with a 9 - C E G Bb D. Besides (fully) diminished, I think you can turn any 7th chord into a 9th chord just by adding a 9, and then call it by the same "modifier" name (i.e. major, minor, dominant).

I think diminished 9th would be 1 b3 b5 bb7 bb9. The 9 there is the same as an 8, which is the same as the root, so it's just stupid to call it a diminished 9th rather than a diminished 7th.

Daveo
06-24-2004, 01:43 PM
The extensions can be made by adding M3 or m3 intervals onto a major or minor triad.

Major:
1 3 5
add on....

a: M3 - 1 3 5 7 - Maj7
b: m3 - 1 3 5 b7 - Dominant

a)add onto Maj7....

M3 - 1 3 5 7 9 - Maj9
m3 - 1 3 5 7 b9 - Maj7b9

b)add onto Dominant....

M3 - 1 3 5 b7 9 - 9
m3 - 1 3 5 b7 b9 - 7b9


And then you add M3 and m3s onto those and then the next! AND THEN THEY'RE DIFFERENT FOR MINOR, DIMINISHED AND AUGMENTED TRIADS!!!!!

God damn, there's too many chords! :p:

That's the main idea. Just add intervals onto triads.

I wonder if there's people who know all the chords possible.....That'd be sweeeeet....

I found a <a href=http://chrisjuergensen.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/chordformula.htm>good site</a>, with most if not all(I don't know) the chord formulas. If you don't understand the formulas and stuff, you need to read up on your theory. You'll find a load of useful sites on the net.

redwing_suck
06-24-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Daveo
I wonder if there's people who know all the chords possible.....That'd be sweeeeet.... i think all you have to know is how to make them and then you know it all....

Daveo
06-24-2004, 02:38 PM
Ok, know OFF, smarty-pants! :p:

EDIT: Was the stuff I said correct, yeah? I'm sure I just made most of it up! :p:

SilentDeftone
06-24-2004, 05:50 PM
Yeah, it seems correct to me. But redwing's explanation owned it. :cheers:

Daveo
06-24-2004, 06:34 PM
^
Blow me! :p:

redwing_suck
06-24-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Daveo
^
Blow me! :p: pick a spot...i'll be using :o <--this mouth, :p: <--this tongue...;) lol....

<marquee>CREEPY!!...</marquee>

so.... no word yet from psycoartrocker on whether or not he understood all this.... hmmm. i await him patiently.


redwing:cheers:

SilentDeftone
06-24-2004, 07:48 PM
LoL. How about you blow the guy in your profile (what the hell is with that dude anyways?) and then shave his fake sideburns :p:

I don't think he'll have any questions, you two covered just about everything.

scheck006
06-24-2004, 08:32 PM
redwing, that post did own ;)
um I think all he needs to know is the basic triads and then the rules of adding notes...like for all the extentions you need to have the notes below it...

I don't think anyone put it as simple as this, but i'll do it anyways..

you have major chord

1-3-5

you have 7 chord

1-3-5-b7

you have 9 chord

1-3-5-b7-9

you have 11 chord

1-3-5-b7-9-11

for all the extenstions you have to add the previous extenstions.

so if you have a 13 chord...

you need the major triad, plus the 7, 9, 11 and then the 13

SilentDeftone
06-24-2004, 08:35 PM
However, that (1 3 5 b7 9 11 13) adds up to 7 strings. If you don't have a 7-stringer, you can safely omit the 5th.

redwing_suck
06-24-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
However, that (1 3 5 b7 9 11 13) adds up to 7 strings. If you don't have a 7-stringer, you can safely omit the 5th. you could really omit any tone as long as your bassist knew what he was doing....

LoL. How about you blow the guy in your profile (what the hell is with that dude anyways?) and then shave his fake sideburns lol what now? me not understand...

SilentDeftone
06-24-2004, 09:06 PM
Whoops, I meant guy in his avatar.

Anyways earlier there was a thread in the Pit which had a poll about whether some of his hair was fake or not (drawn on using computer technology). The poll (when I saw it) was about 20 to 1 that it was fake.

I read somewhere that it was safest to omit the 5th, but yeah you could omit almost any of them.

redwing_suck
06-24-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
I read somewhere that it was safest to omit the 5th, but yeah you could omit almost any of them. oh, yes, defintiely safest to omit the 5th... sometimes you'll se a no3rd chord, but that's really out of pure necessity, and the omition of the seventh is.... erm, well it would make the tones beyond them "adds", unless the bass played such a large role in giving the 7th tone under the chord playing... no root would be fine, since the rest of the scale is given, and it's pretty easy to determine the scale in a chord when 6 of the 7 tones are given... yay, there i go again:

<marquee>SCALES ARE CHORDS! YES!</marquee>






oooo oo oooo, i made some changes to my massive post up over yonder.... one might notice the added text beyond the second bold part... teehee....


redwing:cheers:

scheck006
06-24-2004, 09:14 PM
or if you had a keyboard player you could get away with playing just major and minor chords. lol

PychoArtRocker
06-24-2004, 09:53 PM
My guitar teacher expained it today so i kinda get it. I was talking to a friend about music thery and he say this "oh i could learn it like that,math in it,hahaha what like 2+2. :haha he also sayed music thery is like reading comic books :haha . Man i need new friends.

redwing_suck
06-24-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by PychoArtRocker
he also sayed music thery is like reading comic books :haha . Man i need new friends. yes... extremely intellectual, nerdy, deep, and insightful comic books.... mmm hmm.... indeed.

fucking comic books. what the hell.

Junkstuff1
06-25-2004, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by redwing_suck
no root would be fine

Eh? Unless there's somebody else playing the root, taking it out completely changes the chord. Chord names reflect the tonal center. When you take it away, the tonal center changes, and therefore does the chord name, so omitting the root results in the wrong chord.

redwing_suck
06-25-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Junkstuff1
Eh? Unless there's somebody else playing the root, taking it out completely changes the chord. Chord names reflect the tonal center. When you take it away, the tonal center changes, and therefore does the chord name, so omitting the root results in the wrong chord. dammit... yeah, what i meant to say was to not have the root note be the bass note.... an inversion. damn, i wish i knew what i was saying before i clicked that "submit reply" button....:rolleyes:

lol, yeah no root in a chord..... bah. dont know what the hell i meant.


redwing:cheers:

leo_p8
07-03-2004, 01:43 PM
Ok, chord extensions are a little more complex. There's also a LOT of them around. Here are many of the ones I use most often. Bear in mind, I didn't write down 11ths and 13ths and many other polychords (I hate these!) and the such. Oh, and don't forget, these degrees are all based of your roots MAJOR scale.

so....

Chord Construction:

TRIADS:

Maj: - 1st, 3rd, 5th
Min: - 1st, b3rd, 5th
Aug: - 1st, 3rd, #5th
Dim: - 1st, b3rd, b5th

SUSPENDED CHORDS:

Sus 2: - 1st, 2nd, 5th
Sus 4: - 1st, 4th, 5th

SEVENTH CHORDS:

Maj 7: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th
Min 7: - 1st, b3rd, 5th, 7th
Maj 7 #5: - 1st, 1st, 3rd, #5th, 7th
Maj 7 b5: - 1st, 3rd, b5th, 7th
Min 7 b5: - 1st, b3rd, b5th, b7th
Min/Maj 7: 1st, b3rd, 5th, 7th
7: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, b7th
7 Sus: - 1st, 4th, 5th, b7th
7 #5:- - 1st, 3rd, #5th, b7th
Dim 7: - 1st, b3rd, b5th, bb7th
7 b9: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, b7th, b9th
7 #9:- - 1st, 3rd, 5th, b7th, #9th
7 (b5 b9): - 1st, 3rd, b5h, b7th, b9th
7 (b5 #9):- 1st, 3rd, b5th, b7th, #9th
7 (#5 b9):- 1st, 3rd, #5h, b7th, b9th
7 (#5 #9):- 1st, 3rd, #5h, b7th, #9th

SIXTH CHORDS:

6: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th
Min 6: - 1st, b3rd, 5th, 6th

NINTH CHORDS:

Maj 9: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th
Maj add9: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 9th
6 9: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 9th
Min 9: - 1st, b3rd, 5th, b7th, 9th
Min add9: - 1st, b3rd, 5th, 9th
Min 6 9: - 1st, b3rd, 5th, 6th, 9th
Min 9 b5: - 1st, b3rd, b5th, b7th, 9th
9: - 1st, 3rd, 5th, b7th, 9th
9 Sus: - 1st, 4th, 5th, b7th, 9th
b9 Sus: - 1st, 4th, 5th, b7th b9th

I apoligize in advanced in case of any errors, someone please check these for me. I'm doing them off memory and chord shapes.

Oh, and I know RedWing already posted the link, but I thought this would be easier to print out. Feel free to do so.