Intensity versus Heaviness.


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RentACar
10-07-2009, 04:51 PM
Seriously, ever since people starting saying how hardcore needs a makeover, it got me thinking. Most music has very little intensity, and too much heaviness. Anyone can make Heavy sounding songs, because there is a rough formula to it (Tune down, chug certain patterns, scream). On the other hand, it's hard to write songs where you can pull of emotions through instrumentation, and singing style. Bands are to afraid to sound light, so they bring on the chug, while they miss out on the intensity.
These aren't the same thing.

Ex. Emmure, Winds of Plague is heavy. No doubt.
Strike Anywhere, Title Fight is intense. They don't get as heavy, but they are not "lighter" or "less-hardcore"

See?
Thoughts?

thesceneislame
10-07-2009, 04:58 PM
what about bands that are intense and heavy?

StonaLemons
10-07-2009, 05:04 PM
A lot of bands i would call intense belong more in the pop punk/emo forum... brand new can be very intense without being overly heavy for example.

CrabSoldier X
10-07-2009, 05:37 PM
the sound of animals fighting are a very intense band

nashawa
10-07-2009, 05:37 PM
Botch and Converge are both, but I see what you're saying

handbanana
10-07-2009, 05:40 PM
this thread doesn't even make sense
good job rac

Valderama
10-07-2009, 06:05 PM
A lot of bands i would call intense belong more in the pop punk/emo forum... brand new can be very intense without being overly heavy for example.
+1

They are my guilty pleasure.

And I agree with TS, but it depends whether you are judging from a studio recording point of view, or from a live performance point of view.

thesceneislame
10-07-2009, 06:08 PM
you shouldn't feel guilty about listening to brand new

Bignose
10-07-2009, 06:12 PM
Forget where, but we've discussed this before... and, forgive me if I'm wrong, I thought this hardcore makeover was more to do with chord structure as opposed to heaviness? I also wouldn't exactly say that hardcore is the best place to be putting emotion through instrumentation. While it is possible, I'm just saying that's more a metal thing what with the solos and what not.

waldorphPRS41
10-07-2009, 06:22 PM
you shouldn't feel guilty about listening to brand new
This. Best band ever.

thesceneislame
10-07-2009, 06:32 PM
This. Best band ever.
this

Okeefe Is Legit
10-07-2009, 06:48 PM
+1

They are my guilty pleasure.

And I agree with TS, but it depends whether you are judging from a studio recording point of view, or from a live performance point of view.

Out of all the bands you could decide to have a guilty pleasure of it's Brand New?

Thebiz
10-07-2009, 07:11 PM
Blood Brothers are pretty intense, but I wouldn't consider them heavy.

thesceneislame
10-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Blood Brothers are pretty intense, but I wouldn't consider them heavy.
agreed. theres a 1000 bands that meet that criteria though.

MustangMan311
10-07-2009, 07:22 PM
Emmure and Winds of Plague are poor examples of heavy.

Okeefe Is Legit
10-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Emmure and Winds of Plague are poor examples of heavy.

Especially since WoP plays in E standard.

nashawa
10-07-2009, 08:01 PM
Emmure and Winds of Plague are poor examples of heavy.
Emmure and Winds of Plague are poor examples of music...

thesceneislame
10-07-2009, 08:04 PM
winds of plague is my guilty pleasure

handbanana
10-07-2009, 10:05 PM
Especially since WoP plays in E standard.



Mother of Mercy plays in E standard and i'd say they are somewhat heavy

MustangMan311
10-07-2009, 10:11 PM
Especially since WoP plays in E standard.
...Dillinger plays in E standard, and they're one of the heavier bands out there right now. That has nothing to do with it.

handbanana
10-07-2009, 10:25 PM
...Dillinger plays in E standard, and they're one of the heavier bands out there right now. That has nothing to do with it.


+1
even better example.

IcePh0enix
10-07-2009, 10:48 PM
When I think intensity, I think Infest (and bands influenced by them). When I think heaviness, I think Integrity (and bands influenced by them).

Both are good, but when combined in the right way they can be amazing.

Internal Chaos
10-08-2009, 05:18 PM
IMO, hardcore should be fast and passionate. Ceremony is one of the most intense bands out, and they do it but playing heaps slow with sick vox and the rest, where newer deathcore bands and metalcore bands have to tune to drop G and can't reach that point.

handbanana
10-08-2009, 07:06 PM
IMO, hardcore should be fast and passionate. Ceremony is one of the most intense bands out, and they do it but playing heaps slow with sick vox and the rest, where newer deathcore bands and metalcore bands have to tune to drop G and can't reach that point.



+1
Yeah i'm pretty sure ceremony plays in standard, a half step down

Okeefe Is Legit
10-08-2009, 07:10 PM
...Dillinger plays in E standard, and they're one of the heavier bands out there right now. That has nothing to do with it.

I took OP's post as heavy being downtuned.

IcePh0enix
10-08-2009, 09:02 PM
IMO, hardcore should be fast and passionate. Ceremony is one of the most intense bands out, and they do it but playing heaps slow with sick vox and the rest, where newer deathcore bands and metalcore bands have to tune to drop G and can't reach that point.
**** THE GOVERNMENT WIIIIIIIIITH YOOOOOOOUR FIST!


So intense, love that band.

kurtrip
10-09-2009, 03:58 AM
I also wouldn't exactly say that hardcore is the best place to be putting emotion through instrumentation. While it is possible, I'm just saying that's more a metal thing what with the solos and what not.
metalsolos =/= emotion

pistols
10-09-2009, 04:17 AM
^depends which ones you listen to.

i think if they're heavy through riffing, not chugging, it's good. i don't know of any examples in hardcore, but stuff like electric wizard, early sabbath. really heavy stuff, with rarely any palm muting and no overuse of open notes.

RentACar
10-09-2009, 05:28 PM
IMO, hardcore should be fast and passionate. Ceremony is one of the most intense bands out, and they do it but playing heaps slow with sick vox and the rest, where newer deathcore bands and metalcore bands have to tune to drop G and can't reach that point.
That's pretty much what I was trying to say, but couldn't explain. You don't have to be slow or anything, but they have the whole intensity (better word:passionate) thing without chugging. They aren't the hardest band, but they put some of the most emotion in their music, something Drop-B bands can't do.

GodofCheesecake
10-09-2009, 05:37 PM
...Dillinger plays in E standard, and they're one of the heavier bands out there right now. That has nothing to do with it.
Judging by the definitions the TS gave, Dillinger would be intense but not heavy. At least for the purposes of this thread. I'm obviously far from an expert on them though.

EDIT: Never mind, I would think the terms "intense" and "passionate" would apply to entirely different aspect of music but apparently in this thread they mean the same thing, so I don't even know what we're talking about now.

MustangMan311
10-09-2009, 10:11 PM
Judging by the definitions the TS gave, Dillinger would be intense but not heavy. At least for the purposes of this thread. I'm obviously far from an expert on them though.

EDIT: Never mind, I would think the terms "intense" and "passionate" would apply to entirely different aspect of music but apparently in this thread they mean the same thing, so I don't even know what we're talking about now.
Haha, you must have not listened to 43% Burnt enough, man.

GodofCheesecake
10-09-2009, 10:12 PM
I can't really deny that.

Magero
10-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Interesting thread.
I think both are open to interpretation as well, but basic ideas are present to confirm RentACar's argument.

PERSONALLY
I find bands like The Carrier, Verse and Have Heart intense. They're not as fast, heavy, down tuned or even "evil" (no gore lyrics, or whatever people think is IN lately) but they're easily more intense than Suicide Silence or The Red Shore.
ON THE FLIP SIDE
I find The Acacia Strain to be both intense and heavy. A heavy band will make me want to mosh. An intense band will make me want to DO SOMETHING. Whether that "something" is punch a wall, scream, write a song, whatever, intense bands evoke emotional reaction (in my experience) where as heavy bands are just "empty" enjoyment.

If anyone understands what I'm saying, then rad. :haha

Valderama
10-10-2009, 05:55 AM
^ I understand, perfectly valid points. And I agree 100%.