Help!?! Conflicting shows!


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Take This Life
01-06-2010, 11:43 PM
K so, my band entered a kind of battle of the bands contest, Supernova, and we played a qualifying show and won. Great right? So now we have a show January 23rd in the city finals. Life is good.

NOW the problem.

I emailed the local concert promoter about a show he's putting on with Baptized in Blood headlining asking if we could open.

Today he emailed me back and said you can open BUT you have to cancel your other show.

So I'm torn, my band doesnt know what to do and I would like an opinion.

Thanks!

QAZAR
01-07-2010, 12:19 AM
what do you get if you win the finals?

Myshadow46_2
01-07-2010, 06:38 AM
Well, how much of you reputation is at stake if you cancel the show?

btw, are the gigs on the same date or has the promoter just told you to cancel. I'm assuming on the same date, but you didn't specify.

JackFlash19
01-07-2010, 07:18 AM
I'd say play the show you already booked. I'm assuming this is a friday/saturday conflict and not shows on the same day, as you didn't state the date for the second show. It's understandable the Baptized in Blood promoter wouldn't want you playing a battle of the bands close to the date of his show. After all, he's wanting his headlining band to pull the most people. He doesn't want to have to split your fans with the battle. How many people will actually go to BOTH shows?

You typically stand to gain more fans at a BOTB finals show, and more money at the headlining show. All the other bands will be promoting seriously so their huge crowd might help them win. Headliners usually get the best $/head rate of the night.

So your question shouldn't be which show to play. It should be "Do we want exposure or pay?" I would play the battle, and ask the promoter to keep you in mind for a later headlining gig as you already have the battle booked. He obviously thinks you're good enough to book you, so there's no reason he shouldn't do it later. You might not make it to the finals next time. Isn't that why you played the first battle to begin with?

Take This Life
01-07-2010, 07:45 AM
I'd say play the show you already booked. I'm assuming this is a friday/saturday conflict and not shows on the same day, as you didn't state the date for the second show. It's understandable the Baptized in Blood promoter wouldn't want you playing a battle of the bands close to the date of his show. After all, he's wanting his headlining band to pull the most people. He doesn't want to have to split your fans with the battle. How many people will actually go to BOTH shows?

You typically stand to gain more fans at a BOTB finals show, and more money at the headlining show. All the other bands will be promoting seriously so their huge crowd might help them win. Headliners usually get the best $/head rate of the night.

So your question shouldn't be which show to play. It should be "Do we want exposure or pay?" I would play the battle, and ask the promoter to keep you in mind for a later headlining gig as you already have the battle booked. He obviously thinks you're good enough to book you, so there's no reason he shouldn't do it later. You might not make it to the finals next time. Isn't that why you played the first battle to begin with?


We're just afraid that if we turn him down he'll get angry at us for wasting his time and then decide we aren't "mature" enough for the next show that comes along.



***the BiB show is February 4th, BotB is January 23rd.

Myshadow46_2
01-07-2010, 07:54 AM
We're just afraid that if we turn him down he'll get angry at us for wasting his time and then decide we aren't "mature" enough for the next show that comes along.



***the BiB show is February 4th, BotB is January 23rd.

The shows are on two different nights with almost two weeks between them. That promoter has absolutely no right to ask you to cancel the BotB. Either play the BotB and decline BiB, or play both. Has he even given you a reason you should cancel? If not you need to get one. Don't let him push you around.

:livid: That's actually angered me a little :o

Black Star
01-07-2010, 10:37 AM
The shows are on two different nights with almost two weeks between them. That promoter has absolutely no right to ask you to cancel the BotB. Either play the BotB and decline BiB, or play both. Has he even given you a reason you should cancel? If not you need to get one. Don't let him push you around.

:livid: That's actually angered me a little :o

Actually, it might be the BOTB guidelines. I know many of them have in their TOS that you cannot play another show withing X amount of weeks before the BOTB.

Regardless, you haven't booked with the promoter yet. Tell him you have prior commitments, but would be more than happy to work with him later on. This would gain you more respect in the promoter's eyes than if you were to cancel on the BOTB. After all, it would show you honor your commitments, which means you're less likely to cancel a show with him later on.

Myshadow46_2
01-07-2010, 11:11 AM
Actually, it might be the BOTB guidelines. I know many of them have in their TOS that you cannot play another show withing X amount of weeks before the BOTB.

Didn't think about that. Still, it's a little shady not being able to play two weeks before.

gald
01-07-2010, 12:25 PM
The shows are on two different nights with almost two weeks between them. That promoter has absolutely no right to ask you to cancel the BotB. Either play the BotB and decline BiB, or play both. Has he even given you a reason you should cancel? If not you need to get one. Don't let him push you around.

:livid: That's actually angered me a little :o
That's actually pretty common. We're playing a show next Tuesday and part of the agreement was that we wouldn't play any other shows in the Greater Boston area for three weeks before and two weeks after.

It makes sense, you want to maximize your turn out and unless you're on the "big" side of tour local scene or have a very dedicated fan base you're going to have a hard time pulling a good amount of people in with shows booked so close together.

I have a lot of good friends who play in bands I like, but even then I'm not really willing to shell out $10 to see them every two weeks or anything like that.

Regardless, you haven't booked with the promoter yet. Tell him you have prior commitments, but would be more than happy to work with him later on. This would gain you more respect in the promoter's eyes than if you were to cancel on the BOTB. After all, it would show you honor your commitments, which means you're less likely to cancel a show with him later on.

^This

EL2T
01-07-2010, 03:36 PM
Erm... surely as you're not the main act for the BiB gig which comes second, surely your not expected to pull in a big crowd... isn't that their job?

Zycho
01-07-2010, 03:57 PM
Which show is gonna be more beneficial for you guys? In my experience BOTBs are a waste of time and based on their myspace the BiB guys seem to be decently large. They're also not too far from you guys stylistically so I'd probably go with BiB.

Black Star
01-07-2010, 06:32 PM
Which show is gonna be more beneficial for you guys? In my experience BOTBs are a waste of time and based on their myspace the BiB guys seem to be decently large. They're also not too far from you guys stylistically so I'd probably go with BiB.

Playing to a decent crowd will do nothing for you if you develop a reputation as being unreliable. Sure, you may develop a fanbase, but where will you play?

Take This Life
01-07-2010, 08:47 PM
The shows are on two different nights with almost two weeks between them. That promoter has absolutely no right to ask you to cancel the BotB. Either play the BotB and decline BiB, or play both. Has he even given you a reason you should cancel? If not you need to get one. Don't let him push you around.

:livid: That's actually angered me a little :o

I kinda thought this too. I understand he wants results, but I think BiB should bring those fans in, not us. (Although he was asking for 20 tickets sold which we could do easily)




You guys have really helped us out. And we ended up deciding to tell him we won't cancel our BotB show but would try and work something out. We really wanna play both but we decided that honoring our previous commitment was more important. Thanks to everyone that gave advice, it really helped.

axemanchris
01-08-2010, 08:47 PM
Aw, man....

I'm familiar with the Supernova franchise. They're, as I understand it, a bit of a sham. It's really only a half a step away from pay to play. They give you x number of tickets and you have to sell them for so much in order to break even. If you don't sell them, you make no money, or you're not allowed to play, or you have to buy them in advance, so you're actually out of pocket if you don't get your tickets sold.

It's something like that anyways. They ran a scam operation like that around here for a while until people got sick of being preyed upon, and they eventually left town.

Believe me, if they're the same SuperNova operation that was doing business around here, no serious promoter cares about them because they know about them. They won't be asking Supernova for a reference, and if they try to badmouth you, people will consider the source for what it is worth - a scammer who couldn't finish their exploitation.

Other than that, yes, it IS pretty common for a promoter to ask you to NOT book a show within two or three weeks of one of their shows for reasons stated above.

I personally would have kept the opening act for the established band. Yes, they want you to bring people, though. That's why you're there. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother. They don't put on opening acts because they want to be nice to new bands. It's a business, so the answer pretty well always lies in the attainment of dollars and cents.

It's different with major label recording acts. Often times, the opening band and the headliner will be on the same label. The label puts the opening act on as a means of exposing them to the more established act's audience, so as to encourage more people to buy more product from another artist on their label.

If it is a corporate promoter putting on a show with two or three bands that aren't on the same label, again, it is dollars and cents. "We figure if we bring out just this band x, we'll get this many people. But if we sweeten the pot and add this band to the bill, it will only cost us $YYY to do it, and will probably sell zzz more tickets, so we come out ahead."

CT