How can I persuade my uncle to let me use his club as a VENUE?


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honkytown
12-23-2010, 11:26 PM
First off I wanna be clear here...the goal is to convince my uncle (within reason) to let me & other bands use his club as a venue on Thursdays.

The venue is 21+ and we're all grown, so that's out of the way. I'm very excited, but at the same time too nervous to ask him! Anyways, he currently uses this venue just as a regular dance club & I'd say it holds about 150 people, so it's decent, but small in size.

I don't know how I could convince him. All of the bands are local & unknown, but desperately trying to build a fanbase....naturally, we're all broke right now.

To sum it up:
- I need to convince my uncle to let me & my bands use his club 1 day out the week
- The bands are broke! :(
- How in the f**k can I possibly persuade him to do this with me, instead of for me?

rickyj
12-23-2010, 11:34 PM
well your gonna need some equipment...


stage
PA
noise permit(if his club doesnt have one already)

he's probably going to want all the profits from ticket sales and whatnot

honkytown
12-23-2010, 11:35 PM
well your gonna need some equipment...


stage
PA
noise permit(if his club doesnt have one already)

he's probably going to want all the profits from ticket sales and whatnot
Lucky for us (I guess), he's also the soundguy/DJ. As far as the ticket sales go, I'm thinking it'll be more like "pay at the door" & I don't think the other bands will mind playing for free for a few months. I won't...it's just the price you pay for exposure.

katalyzt13
12-23-2010, 11:35 PM
You could tell him to try it and see if it generates more business for him, if you are willing to play for free. If it generates more business I'm sure he would greet the opportunity with open arms. Also, as a heads up, if you do this avoid cover songs because venues that have bands play cover songs are required to pay some type of fee for copyright, etc.

If he lets you try to see if it generates more business, make sure you promote in your local community so that it actually does turn up more business, otherwise it will be a wasted venture.

If it does generate more business and you are moving forward with more shows, then you can talk to him about the band getting paid.

rickyj
12-23-2010, 11:37 PM
Lucky for us (I guess), he's also the soundguy/DJ


make sure he has mics to mic the cabs


you might have to get an electrician to make sure your not gonna blow some breakers plugging all that shit in at once

Matt Chavie
12-23-2010, 11:37 PM
'Hey I have an idea for your club, tell me what you think. What if on Thursdays bands played shows here?'
'That's a good/bad idea'

and write good music so he asks you to play, not the other way around.

He may have just never thought of it. He should also get part of the ticket sales/all of.

honkytown
12-23-2010, 11:40 PM
'Hey I have an idea for your club, tell me what you think. What if on Thursdays bands played shows here?'
'That's a good/bad idea'

and write good music so he asks you to play, not the other way around.

He may have just never thought of it. He should also get part of the ticket sales/all of.
Why would I wait for him to ask me? Why not just have the balls enough to ask him?

AlanHB
12-23-2010, 11:57 PM
Why would I wait for him to ask me? Why not just have the balls enough to ask him?

Hey you just answered yourself!

He's your uncle mate, he'll be allowing. Now what you should do is have some sort of game plan. What's in it for him? Is it an originals night? Are other bands that you're not in allowed to play too? Is there a cover charge? Do the bands get paid? Is it limited to a certain genre? Etc.

C_Miller
12-24-2010, 12:01 AM
You're making this sound like you've already asked him and he's reluctant or he's done it before and he's reluctant to do it again. Convincing is what you do when you ask him once and he says no, maybe or directly asks you to convince him. Just straight ask him and go from there.

honkytown
12-24-2010, 12:10 AM
Hey you just answered yourself!

He's your uncle mate, he'll be allowing. Now what you should do is have some sort of game plan. What's in it for him? Is it an originals night? Are other bands that you're not in allowed to play too? Is there a cover charge? Do the bands get paid? Is it limited to a certain genre? Etc.
Game Plan is the right word & that's what I've been thinking of right now, but to answer your questions... If I charge $2 at the door, then he'll get all of it. None of the bands are doing covers. Yes, the bands I'm not in ARE allowed to play...I want to get in as many great bands/musicians as possible. No, the bands won't be getting paid and that's the downside. No, it's not limited to a certain genre, but I know he won't be looking forward to hearing any Screamo :haha:

By the way, my uncle's pretty "hip" on music (he's a DJ). So, he's not just some old beer-belly dude Lol

axemanchris
12-24-2010, 11:10 AM
Uncle or not, present him with a business plan of sorts.

"Here is how it will work. Here is how you will make more money on Tuesdays than you do now."

At this point, it's up to you. WILL it make more money on Tuesdays than he does now? How can you make sure it will?

If it's going to MAKE him money, uncle or not, he'll be in - almost guaranteed. If it won't make money, then uncle or not, he should not consider it.

Business is business. Family is family.

CT

Zycho
12-24-2010, 05:19 PM
Don't **** yourself and the bands over. It's a solid business proposition without ****ing yourself over. Assuring him the bands will play for free is just going to show him that you don't think you guys can bring in anybody.

the_perdestrian
12-24-2010, 05:58 PM
just say "hey, thursday is a fairly slow night yeah? how about this, you bring in some local bands on thursdays, 2 dollars at the door. the bands get the money you get a boost in sales. If your bar sales drop below average the door sales will cover your bar sales.

sound like a plan y/n? support your local music scene"

honkytown
12-24-2010, 06:37 PM
just say "hey, thursday is a fairly slow night yeah? how about this, you bring in some local bands on thursdays, 2 dollars at the door. the bands get the money you get a boost in sales. If your bar sales drop below average the door sales will cover your bar sales.

sound like a plan y/n? support your local music scene"
Good point!

honkytown
12-24-2010, 06:40 PM
Don't **** yourself and the bands over. It's a solid business proposition without ****ing yourself over. Assuring him the bands will play for free is just going to show him that you don't think you guys can bring in anybody.
I disagree with you on this point because. Assuring him that the bands will play for free is also telling him that they obviously aren't top acts. I'm 100% sure that he'd let us sell merch there, so HOPEFULLY we will make some money.

If he let's me do this, then I'm gonna work my ass off promoting it...I don't want anything other than a success.

kyle62
12-24-2010, 09:39 PM
All of the bands are local & unknown, but desperately trying to build a fanbase....naturally, we're all broke right now.Thing is, how is that going to make him any money?


DO NOT go with door sales - the only people who will turn up is friends and family, and there might well be less of them then there would be regular drinkers on the same night.
There's a good possibility your music will drive out his regular drinkers, meaning he actually makes less than a normal night, for a lot more hassle and effort.

My advice would be to advertise it as a 'weekly ____ night' (rock/metal/blues/funk/african speed-disco, whatever) with several bands doing short sets using a shared backline. If you're musically good and have decent gear you could try running a jam night (that's what I'd do) but you'll need a few hors of covers to pull it off well.


The biggest mistake bands make is trying to imitate the big, popular venues and bands - they just have a fairly abstract poster with the name of the band and the date.
But putting up a big fancy poster advertising your unsigned, unknown band will not get a single person to come! If you're unknown, the best thing to do is to advertise the type of music to appeal to a wider range of people.

We switched from posters like this:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7628/oldbank1stnovembercusto.jpg

To posters like this:

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4474/harrysbarcustom.jpg

Made a huge difference, a lot of people came to see us based on the different band logos on the poster and ended up loving the band and buying CDs.

There's nothing more depressing than seeing bands play crappy weekday gigs where the only audience is their mums and best mates - who've been pressured into buying overpriced tickets.

krypticguitar87
12-24-2010, 10:33 PM
I'd say to record something good, like a demo or whatever, play it for him and tell him how you plan on selling things (ads price whatnot).... seriously the worst that can happen is he'll say "no", then you try to find something else...

Zycho
12-25-2010, 03:23 AM
I disagree with you on this point because. Assuring him that the bands will play for free is also telling him that they obviously aren't top acts. I'm 100% sure that he'd let us sell merch there, so HOPEFULLY we will make some money.

If he let's me do this, then I'm gonna work my ass off promoting it...I don't want anything other than a success.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, because that reinforces the thought that it won't be worthwhile for him.

Assuring him the bands aren't good and won't bring anyone IS NOT A GOOD THING.

axemanchris
12-25-2010, 11:39 AM
^ Careful. You're making an assumption that good band = bring people.

Unfortunately, the two have little to do with each other. I have seen great bands play to empty rooms, and mediocre bands who have developed a great following and routinely bring loads of people.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter how good you are or how much you suck. All you need to do is to convince him that people will come out. Which brings me back to that question... Will they? How will you ensure that this is going to make him money? Being good is not enough.

CT

honkytown
12-25-2010, 05:00 PM
All you need to do is to convince him that people will come out. Which brings me back to that question... Will they? How will you ensure that this is going to make him money? Being good is not enough.
CT

If you have any extra ideas, then please lend them to me! But I plan on printing out flyers for this. There's going to be 5 acts, and I'm thinking 7pm-11, but I really don't know yet about the time length.

Questions:
How many flyers should I print out?
What can i do to make this a great turnout? I'm starting from scratch... :confused:

By the way everybody, I really appreciate the smart answers!

CL/\SH
12-25-2010, 07:59 PM
I disagree with you on this point because. Assuring him that the bands will play for free is also telling him that they obviously aren't top acts. I'm 100% sure that he'd let us sell merch there, so HOPEFULLY we will make some money.

If he let's me do this, then I'm gonna work my ass off promoting it...I don't want anything other than a success.
What the hell are you talking about? Where do you get this from?

Lot's of bands have to play for free these days. It's a sign of the times. If you want exposure and want to get your music out to people you have to willing to sacrifice instant gratification of getting money. Assure him that the bands will play for free because they are doing this for the music and want to have fun is a better method of going about this.

Also, as far as promoting goes, don't ask how many fliers you should print, ask how many you can. Print as many as possible, go to malls, stores, colleges, parks, anywhere, and leave them everywhere. Get as much exposure for the event as possible without breaking any laws or committing any felonies.

Door sales are bat shit retarded. It's a sure fire way to get people to exit before entering. Unless people know for a fact it will be good times, they will NOT bother paying however much you're charging at the door. Your uncle will have to sit okay with the fact that if there's live music, and it's promoted as an event FOR live music, people will show up and spend their money on drinks/food/etc. And if people like you, they will spend their money on your merch because they're drunk enough to not worry too much about spending too much.

I agree with Kyle.

My measly two cents.

axemanchris
12-25-2010, 09:56 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Where do you get this from?

Lot's of bands have to play for free these days. It's a sign of the times.

Well, lots of bands *choose* to play for free, but they don't have to if they're any good (or experienced enough to know better). At least not very often. If you're doing covers, no club should be paying you any less than a couple hundred dollars. The "going rate" around here for a standard cover band is about $400. If you're playing for free, it is either because you don't think you're worth the money - or the club doesn't think you're worth the money. In any case, that's a problem.

Original bands have to bite the bullet a little more often, but aside from the odd fundraiser and such that we played, we always walked out with at least something - anywhere from $50 to $250, depending on the venue/event.

Again, if you're playing for free, it is because someone doesn't think you are worth paying, and that is a problem.



Assure him that the bands will play for free because they are doing this for the music and want to have fun is a better method of going about this.

... and word will quickly get out to other bands that this venue does not pay. This will ensure that none of the better bands who DO get out and play for money will never want to play there.


Also, as far as promoting goes, don't ask how many fliers you should print, ask how many you can. Print as many as possible, go to malls, stores, colleges, parks, anywhere, and leave them everywhere.

So if you saw a bunch of fliers around town advertising:

January 15, 2011
A GREAT NIGHT OF ROCK!!

Featuring: Johnny and the Tomatoes, Dirtnap, Eternal Fall, and Filthy Rotten
NO COVER!!

Would you go? I wouldn't. Why not? Because I've never heard of any of those bands!! What do they do? Are they any good? F*cked if I know. Nah, I'll go do something else - hang with my friends, go see a movie, play video games.... whatever.

You can't just tell people about an event and expect them to go. They need a REASON to go!

Get as much exposure for the event as possible without breaking any laws or committing any felonies.

Yes. But the exposure needs to give people a reason to go, as I said. See, the value in postering and such is name recognition. For the short term, it means nothing. But after a while of seeing posters around town, your name starts to look familiar. Then people say to themselves, "Hey, I keep hearing about them. They must be pretty good." You finally have a better chance of getting a couple of them to come out.


Door sales are bat shit retarded. It's a sure fire way to get people to exit before entering. Unless people know for a fact it will be good times, they will NOT bother paying however much you're charging at the door.

However, the reality for most original bands is that the majority of the people who show up to these shows are friends and family of the bands who are playing. They are less likely than the average person off the street to be deterred by a $5 cover. I'm not a fan of them myself, but it allows a little extra insurance for the venue that they might actually be able to pay the bands at the end of the night.

CT

axemanchris
12-25-2010, 10:06 PM
If you have any extra ideas, then please lend them to me! But I plan on printing out flyers for this. There's going to be 5 acts, and I'm thinking 7pm-11, but I really don't know yet about the time length.

Nobody wants to come out at 7:00 pm. Nobody.

First band on at 9:00. Each band plays a 40 minute set, and a 20 minute turnover. Second band at 10, third at 11, fourth at 12, and time permitting a fifth band at 1:00.

(get someone to run sound who knows what they are doing to help facilitate these change-overs. And PAY them! If you don't pay them, they will not return, and you will be stuck with sucky sound people who don't know what they are doing, and THAT is why they work for free.... kinda like bands....)

Put a certain amount of pressure on each band to bring people out. If each band brings 15 people, that is 75 people (maybe paying a cover at the door) at least moseying up to the bar for drinks. If it's an otherwise slow night at this bar, that should represent a significant increase in patrons.

If the bands don't bring people out, then the night will not be a success. You can't expect people to come in off the street, really.

Be prepared for lots of people to come out and stay only long enough to see their friends' band play, and then leave. At least if those 15 people buy one drink, the bar is doing okay, and your uncle is happy.

To get people out, you need to give them a reason, as I suggested in my post above. People go see bands that:
-they know about
-they have reasonable expectation that they're good

People do not go see bands that:
-they have never heard of
-don't know what to expect from

So, how do you get people to know about these bands, and get them to have a reasonable expectation that they might be good? Press is your best friend. Get some radio play (campus radio isn't that hard to get on). Get some print exposure in your local entertainment mags. Play festivals and events where people are there already anyways, and they are a ready audience to hear your music. Develop name recognition through frequent postering. (25 well-placed posters is a lot more useful than 250 that are poorly placed, though....) Try to get on TV. Community television, even. Establish social networking that will draw people to your website where they can hear your music. Get them to sign up for your email list. Give them a reason to return to your site.

People HAVE to hear your music, and connect that music to your name. If they hear you and like you, they just may go see you, if you can get the word to them that you are playing.

CT

Zycho
12-25-2010, 10:40 PM
I can see where people are coming from when it comes to playing for free, but the fact of the matter is you shouldn't play for free just because some tightwad at a bar is cheapskate. I've played for free, but it was always for a good cause. To get the touring band to their next stop, to keep a DIY venue chugging along, to help my friends, etc. Never to help some bar save a few measly bucks. ****. That. Shit.

honkytown
12-26-2010, 01:49 AM
Nobody wants to come out at 7:00 pm. Nobody.

First band on at 9:00. Each band plays a 40 minute set, and a 20 minute turnover. Second band at 10, third at 11, fourth at 12, and time permitting a fifth band at 1:00.

(get someone to run sound who knows what they are doing to help facilitate these change-overs. And PAY them! If you don't pay them, they will not return, and you will be stuck with sucky sound people who don't know what they are doing, and THAT is why they work for free.... kinda like bands... .)

Put a certain amount of pressure on each band to bring people out. If each band brings 15 people....

CT
Thanks for the detailed advice, but there's no need to be so rude. It's just unnecessary. It also kind of sounds like you're trying to talk me out of even trying to pull this off, but it's all good because at SOME point, a band/musician has to play for free. Obviously, it's not what they'd prefer to do, but we've got to get started somewhere & somehow. Sorry I'm not a sharp Pro like you, whatever that means.

SlackerBabbath
12-26-2010, 07:48 AM
Yeah, basicaly you need to convince him that it's worth him taking a risk on your idea, which isn't much of a risk because he can always return to what he's doing now if it doesn't work.

His risk is obviously financial, so you need to give him financial incentives, such as agreeing to pay the bands on a door takings percentage basis, so that he isn't responsible for finding bands wages.
As a club owner, his main profits will be from the bar, so now you have to think about how to best sell lots of drinks, this is all to do with the audience you are aiming for.
A young audience generaly has less money to spend on drinks, and many may not even be old enough to buy alcoholic beverages, but all is not lost there. A lot of club owners will sell soft drinks at the same price as an alcoholic drink, and because soft drinks are often cheaper to stock than alcoholic drinks, he makes more money per drink.
Of course, if you can get his bar filled with middle aged hard drinking guys, you've got it made.
But what would be better is if you can have both crowds in the bar together.

To attract the middle aged guys you need classic rock acts, bands that do covers of 70s and 80s bands or even original bands that just have that classic rock feel, mix that with another band on the bill that will generate a younger audience, a more modern 'metal' band for instance will often work nicely as the two genres are related and can often be appreciated by both audiences.
Before, between and after the bands, play a mixture of both genres music over the PA, Rock/Metal compilation CDs are pretty good for this.

Basicaly, come up with a plan of action that takes into account the kinda stuff I've mentioned and present it to him.
Show him some brightly coloured, striking poster ideas and look into contacting the local press about advertising and possibly even doing a local 'feature' news story. Lots of local newspapers have 'what's on' sections that have local gig venue, cinema, restraunts and other entertainment listings, that they often fill out by doing a news feature on anything new that's happening in the area.

That all should be enough to at least interest him.

axemanchris
12-26-2010, 11:07 AM
Thanks for the detailed advice, but there's no need to be so rude. It's just unnecessary.

What was rude about suggesting that the only people who will run sound at a club are the ones that will not be up to snuff to do the job? Seriously. You bring one guy out and don't pay him, and word gets around that your uncle's club doesn't pay sound people, and you're going to be left with people who are going to work for free... which is not a group that includes people who know what they're doing. What's rude about that?


It also kind of sounds like you're trying to talk me out of even trying to pull this off,

No. I'm just trying to tell you how this business of local music nights works so that you're prepared for it, and manage it properly, so that it can be a success.

Your plan of having bands out starting at 7:00, with no foresight into how to get people out, save for 1000 fliers posted around the city, and a sound person working for free trying to facilitate bands doing a complete changeover in 20 minutes in a venue not accustomed to having bands in the first place would fail. If it fails, your relationship with your uncle could be strained.


but it's all good because at SOME point, a band/musician has to play for free. Obviously, it's not what they'd prefer to do, but we've got to get started somewhere & somehow.

True, inasmuch as if you start with fundraisers/charity gigs, or if your first gig happens to be an open mic night or a new music night or whatever. After that, no, you should NOT have to play for free.


Sorry I'm not a sharp Pro like you, whatever that means.

Your bitterness at my experience and your lack of overall knowledge of the business of music makes me wonder if you're, like, 15 or something. Am I close?

CT

axemanchris
12-26-2010, 11:34 AM
Look. Here is the crux of your possible success.


Put a certain amount of pressure on each band to bring people out. If each band brings 15 people, that is 75 people (maybe paying a cover at the door) at least moseying up to the bar for drinks. If it's an otherwise slow night at this bar, that should represent a significant increase in patrons.

If the bands don't bring people out, then the night will not be a success. You can't expect people to come in off the street, really.

You need to advertise it to get some name recognition for the bands and for the venue, but that is part of your long-term strategy. In the short term, don't expect your ads to bring people in off the street who aren't already there.

Unless you can generate promotion that will let people hear the bands or at least read about the bands in order to give them a reason to expect that it will be something they will like, simply seeing an ad for a band night will NOT bring people out.

The key then is to ensure that the bands bring people out - their friends and family. Especially if they are just starting out and are inexperienced, this should not be a problem. The bands need to hustle the people.

Now you're faced with the dilemma that "the person on the other end of the phone" faces on a routine basis. How do you do that?

There are lots of business models out there. Some of them really suck, and some of them are okay.

Some promoters sell each band a block of tickets up front for the gig at a set price. The band can then give away the tickets or sell them at a discounted rate (which basically means paying to play, which sucks even more than playing for free), or sells them at a regular price, which will be enough to make their money back and then some. After a certain number of tickets sold at a certain price, the band is making money. Sell five tickets for five bucks each, and you're still short on the $75 you paid the venue for the tickets in the first place. Sell thirty tickets at $5 each, and your band is making $75.

Some venues will go to a very band-friendly approach and say, "we'll pay you a minimum of $50 per band, but if the bar does really well, we'll pay you more." The bands don't know exactly how much they'll get at the end of the night, but the bar wagers on the fact they might lose money. You can bet that they'll be watching, though, and taking note of which bands seem to have brought people, and which haven't, and the bands that haven't brought people are basically finished there.

Some venues give you free tickets to sell. You keep whatever money you make. Give them all away, and you make nothing. Sell one for $5, and each member leaves with enough money to pay a parking meter for half an hour. Sell 100 and you walk out with a pretty tidy sum.

Some venues charge a cover, and ask patrons on their way in which band they came to see. Each band gets a percentage of the door based on the percentage of patrons who claimed to see them.

There are TONS of variations on these models, but this should at least get you thinking.

CT

honkytown
12-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Look. Here is the crux of your possible success.



You need to advertise it to get some name recognition for the bands and for the venue, but that is part of your long-term strategy. In the short term, don't expect your ads to bring people in off the street who aren't already there...

...
CT

Again, thanks for the advice and NO I'm not 15 or even close to that age anymore. And I made a comment on the 1st page that my uncle is also the soundguy.

kyle62
12-28-2010, 08:47 AM
So if you saw a bunch of fliers around town advertising:

January 15, 2011
A GREAT NIGHT OF ROCK!!

Featuring: Johnny and the Tomatoes, Dirtnap, Eternal Fall, and Filthy Rotten
NO COVER!!

Would you go? I wouldn't. Why not? Because I've never heard of any of those bands!! What do they do? Are they any good? F*cked if I know. Nah, I'll go do something else - hang with my friends, go see a movie, play video games.... whatever.

You can't just tell people about an event and expect them to go. They need a REASON to go!



Yes. But the exposure needs to give people a reason to go, as I said. See, the value in postering and such is name recognition. For the short term, it means nothing. But after a while of seeing posters around town, your name starts to look familiar. Then people say to themselves, "Hey, I keep hearing about them. They must be pretty good." You finally have a better chance of getting a couple of them to come out.I usually find myself nodding along in agreement with your posts, but I really don't think this is how people work.


Your average joe walking past a bar on the way home is much more likely to pop into a 'free rock night' based on the fact it's free, they like rock, thus they might enjoy it!
I don't think anyone pays to go in and see a band because they've been seeing their name on posters everywhere for the last two months. Personally I get really annoyed by bands that 'try too hard' and usually make a conscious effort to avoid them...


WORD OF MOUTH is the key.
And you don't generate that with a ton of vague, half-baked posters plastered everywhere for the whole world to ignore.
You advertise a 'free night of rock' (or punk,jazz or whatever) and invite everyone you can to the opening show (the 'free' part is the key here as it's the only way anyone will bother).
Even if the place is mostly empty, the people who enjoy it will probably return, and maybe bring their mates along with them. They might mention it to other people they know, and slowly the word gets out.


It might sound far-fetched but I've seen this happen when running jam nights and weekly band showcases.
We start it off simple, never have a door charge and let it build up, slowly at first but by the fourth or fifth week you've got a dependable 'core audience' which gets bigger all the time. After a few weeks if the management are satisfied it's not going to lose them money, we arrange better pay for the bands, attracting higher-quality acts which draws in the crowds even more!

axemanchris
12-28-2010, 10:00 AM
Again, thanks for the advice and NO I'm not 15 or even close to that age anymore.

Really.... your apparent attitude suggests otherwise.


Your average joe walking past a bar on the way home is much more likely to pop into a 'free rock night' based on the fact it's free, they like rock, thus they might enjoy it!

This makes a supposition that the person is out on the street on the way home from somewhere at 10:00 at night and wondering what to do with himself. Sure, it happens, but around here, most people start off at home and talk among their friends (either in person or via chat or whatever), "So, what you guys want to do tonight?" At that point, the posters you saw but never really paid attention to because it was just a bunch of bands you've never heard of, don't typically become part of the conversation.


I don't think anyone pays to go in and see a band because they've been seeing their name on posters everywhere for the last two months.

Posters is only part of the equation. Mostly, we don't pay much attention to the posters, but once you've seen their names on posters over a period of time, seen their name in the club listings regularly, etc., the name of the band begins to take on a level familiarity. It's at *that* point, that you start standing a chance at people "just coming out."


WORD OF MOUTH is the key.

YES!!


And you don't generate that with a ton of vague, half-baked posters plastered everywhere for the whole world to ignore.
You advertise a 'free night of rock' (or punk,jazz or whatever) and invite everyone you can to the opening show (the 'free' part is the key here as it's the only way anyone will bother).
Even if the place is mostly empty, the people who enjoy it will probably return, and maybe bring their mates along with them. They might mention it to other people they know, and slowly the word gets out.


It might sound far-fetched but I've seen this happen when running jam nights and weekly band showcases.
We start it off simple, never have a door charge and let it build up, slowly at first but by the fourth or fifth week you've got a dependable 'core audience' which gets bigger all the time. After a few weeks if the management are satisfied it's not going to lose them money, we arrange better pay for the bands, attracting higher-quality acts which draws in the crowds even more!

This can, and does work.... sometimes. It requires a commitment on the part of the talent buyer and the owner (yes, who may be the same person) to do this. In this case, I have a feeling that the commitment to try this is not there. He might go for it once or twice, but that failing, it won't be followed through on.

CT