Ending Current Band


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CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 12:28 AM
Hey all. I am going to be dropping my current drummer on Friday, and seeing as how he's the only other member in the band, this will also cause the band to cease to exist. I'll probably start another one down the line, when I find the right guy(s) that will fit the bill.

The reason I'm doing this is because he's begun to control many aspects of the band that he has no business controlling, to the point where he recently tried telling me the types of songs I should be writing, because said songs are what people like. Well, I'm gonna write what I want to write and he shouldn't disagree otherwise. He should just shut up and play his drums :shrug:

Anyway, I just wanted to see if any of you guys have had similar experience, and any tips about how to go about this so there's as little backlash as possible. I'm essentially going to tell him that it isn't fun anymore, I'm not happy with being in a band with him anymore, and I can't imagine us continuing as a band for years to come. Which is all the way I'm feeling, although some details are left out.

:lurk:

supersac
01-20-2011, 12:33 AM
well it sounds like you were the one being controlling
but being straight forward for me at least is the best idea

just tell the drummer that you can do the band thing no more

JWD32792
01-20-2011, 12:37 AM
It sounds like there's just bad creative chemistry between you two. Just be straightforward and say that you think you're on different wavelengths and that you think that you'd both get the most out of your musical efforts if they were put toward different projects.

Weybl Himself
01-20-2011, 12:42 AM
Just tell him how it is, that you're a fragile egomaniac and can't stand being in a collaborative band where a drummer expresses musical opinions.

Seriously man, 'should just shut up and play his drums'? If that's how you feel about fellow musicians then you'll probably never be happy in any band. If you wanna be totally in control, stay solo.

Reisgar42
01-20-2011, 12:47 AM
Just tell him how it is, that you're a fragile egomaniac and can't stand being in a collaborative band where a drummer expresses musical opinions.

Seriously man, 'should just shut up and play his drums'? If that's how you feel about fellow musicians then you'll probably never be happy in any band. If you wanna be totally in control, stay solo.

I like this guy.

If you want to be Trent Reznor, be Trent Reznor. Don't rope other people along if you're going to get pissed off when they get an opinion.

Natrone
01-20-2011, 01:01 AM
Just tell him how it is, that you're a fragile egomaniac and can't stand being in a collaborative band where a drummer expresses musical opinions.

Seriously man, 'should just shut up and play his drums'? If that's how you feel about fellow musicians then you'll probably never be happy in any band. If you wanna be totally in control, stay solo.
This is precisely what I was going to say. I would never, NEVER tell my drummer to just shut up and play his drums. Your drummer is possibly the most important and underappreciated part of the band, and to tell him that he cannot have creative input is a horrible idea, as well as a show of egotism that you simply cannot have in a band.

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 01:35 AM
It sounds like there's just bad creative chemistry between you two. Just be straightforward and say that you think you're on different wavelengths and that you think that you'd both get the most out of your musical efforts if they were put toward different projects.
We've actually got good creative chemistry, and work really well together musically.

For the rest of you; please don't assume anything when you aren't fully aware of the situation. I am all for constructive criticism, and am very modest when it comes to this sort of thing. When you say I suck, I agree, also asking how and why, in order to improve myself.

It's another thing entirely when a drummer who doesn't play guitar tries to tell me what to do on my instrument, by way of saying that I should be writing simpler, catchier songs more often as that's part of our shtick. But I cannot be confined as a musician or a songwriter to the same simple thing over and over again, I have to expand. Not only this, he continued to say I was over complicating the music I was writing - this couldn't be further from the truth, considering the things I'd be trying out were simple but stood out and merely took a bit more effort to get the execution down.

It's the equivalent of me telling him to hit his toms and not his snare. I'm all for giving constructive comments when it's deemed necessary or you think something can be done better, but it's another thing entirely for him to try and tell me what I as a songwriter should write. I don't tell him how he should be playing his drums, I'll suggest something that he could do but if he doesn't want to I won't press the issue, it's as simple as that.

As far as the controlling aspect goes, I'll give a few examples aside from him trying to restrict me as a song writer go. He was deciding how much our merch would cost without really consulting me - deciding prematurely on a price that we wouldn't even break even at.

Another is the price of our music. He was again saying as if the decision was already final that our music will be free - now and always. Right now, it makes perfect sense to put out our music for free - no one knows us and who's going to buy music from a band they don't know. But, hypothetically speaking, if it came to the point where music was our livelihood (how we pay the bills, pay for food, gas, etc.) it is not economically sound to have it be free unless you have a well paying job, which is hard to find in this economy, excluding the amount of time it takes to work a job of that caliber as well as keep up with the music.

Not only all of this, but there are fundamental differences in our opinion of music. He believes ALL music should be free, and I am not of this opinion. If music is your livelihood and people steal your music by way of illegal downloading then they are essentially stealing food out of your fridge, etc.

His musical opinions start to carry less weight when he acts as a hypocrite - roasting on bands like Nickelback or Kings of Leon and such, saying they are bands bred for money and not for music (keep in mind I like neither band, but have no problem with either one) and then suggesting we should be playing catchier simpler stuff that people will like, when I don't really care what people will like. I want to play the music that I love playing, regardless of whether or not it's popular.

I came off pretentious, I apologize for that. I am also sorry for rambling, but for you to better understand where I am coming from, wall of text is necessary.

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 01:46 AM
Overall, he was trying to tell me that I should be writing stuff that people like, and that I should stop trying to write stuff a little more intricate because it detracts from the digestibility of the music as a whole to the average person. That doesn't sit well with me. Imagine one of your fellow band mates telling you what you should be doing on your instrument, regardless of their lack of knowledge of it as well. He's told me to try something different with a riff, song, etc. and it's turned out for the better, great even. But this is an entirely different scenario where he's trying to control the bands overall sound by making the guitar parts less complicated and more easy to listen to, which I don't wholly enjoy.

AlanHB
01-20-2011, 06:54 AM
Doesn't sound like there was much of a band anyway, just 2 dudes fighting over what people like and don't like.

C_Miller
01-20-2011, 12:03 PM
It's another thing entirely when a drummer who doesn't play guitar tries to tell me what to do on my instrument, by way of saying that I should be writing simpler, catchier songs more often as that's part of our shtick. But I cannot be confined as a musician or a songwriter to the same simple thing over and over again, I have to expand. Not only this, he continued to say I was over complicating the music I was writing - this couldn't be further from the truth, considering the things I'd be trying out were simple but stood out and merely took a bit more effort to get the execution down.

It's the equivalent of me telling him to hit his toms and not his snare. I'm all for giving constructive comments when it's deemed necessary or you think something can be done better, but it's another thing entirely for him to try and tell me what I as a songwriter should write. I don't tell him how he should be playing his drums, I'll suggest something that he could do but if he doesn't want to I won't press the issue, it's as simple as that.

Yeah, welcome to being in a band. On one occasion I will tell my drummer what or how to play in the same sense that a few songs down the line he will tell me what to play. From the sound of it you're drinking your own kool-aid as a songwriter.

Arby911
01-20-2011, 12:20 PM
The reason I'm doing this is because he's begun to control many aspects of the band that he has no business controlling, to the point where he recently tried telling me the types of songs I should be writing, because said songs are what people like. Well, I'm gonna write what I want to write and he shouldn't disagree otherwise. He should just shut up and play his drums :shrug:


Two thoughts,

1. Why can't you write both? There's no rule against having side projects, and you could make yourself happy writing what you want and still keep playing in your current situation.

2. Why should he just "shut up and play his drums"? Sounds like you don't value his input...

Ethanb08
01-20-2011, 03:35 PM
I'd say end the band. Or if you wanna experiment and see if he can see through your eyes you could snap on him and tell him how you feel that hes being musically close minded when it comes to more interesting/complex songs... and/or you could nag him on certain aspects of his drumming here and there and just see how he handles it and if he snaps or gets pissed off tell him this is what he does... Some people learn through experience... but if hes not worth being taught the "lesson" ditch the band... "press the issue" as you say... ;)

My drummers vaugly like that, but he plays guitar as a hobby, i'd say i'm the primary songwriter of music and recently lyrics, me and the drummer are really tight and seems to musically insync, we've played together so long we just understand, but aside from that we have differing opinions for things, often myself being the songwriter, I get indepth with the project/song that i start to lose the idea of what is too much or too little of something or this and that, the drummer is my reality check, he listens to the song as I present it, he modifies lyrics, helps a lot with arrangment, fixes things here and there, hes kinda like how a producer would say do this or that for this or that... but someone I trust significantly more than a "Suit"...lol the rest of the band comes up with their own stuff and me and the drummer tend to modify arrangment and riffs unless its pretty much set to go.

I dont think your being musically self centered like the others are suggesting I just think you and your drummer are not on the same page and dont want to write the same kind of music... anyways you have to press this issue if you want to continue the band, otherwise your band is terminal...

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 03:43 PM
Two thoughts,

1. Why can't you write both? There's no rule against having side projects, and you could make yourself happy writing what you want and still keep playing in your current situation.

2. Why should he just "shut up and play his drums"? Sounds like you don't value his input...
1. You are right. I considered doing just that. But after reevaluating, I came to the conclusion that I simply wasn't happy coming to practice in the first place anymore. It was really fun in the beginning but now he wants to keep playing dumbed down Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus stuff. I'm just not happy in my current situation. He was telling the bassist at one point specifically what to do, when he doesn't play bass. He also said the bassist was over complicating it, when he really wasn't. Besides how could he know if he doesn't play bass.

2. I never actually said that, and would never be so rude as to actually tell that to a fellow musician. It was just an expression. I actually do, or did, value his input. He'd give me new ways to look at a part to a song, or give me new ideas to do a bridge etc. It would usually turn out for the better. But that's when it comes to structuring the song as a whole, which he's most proficient at. When it comes to writing however, he usually let me do my thing. But as soon as I start to bring a more intricate side to the mix, he pouts at practice and says it's too complicated for "our" style and doesn't even want to try and make things work. I've never shot down ideas of his when he suggests something different we could try for a song, but this is a different type of dealy. He's adamant that i should be writing simple, catchy, digestible music that EVERYONE will hook onto. Which is hypocritical, considering he's always hating on bands that write music specifically to be popular or liked.

I wanna thank you though for not being so antagonistic like the rest of these guys/gals.

Yeah, welcome to being in a band. On one occasion I will tell my drummer what or how to play in the same sense that a few songs down the line he will tell me what to play. From the sound of it you're drinking your own kool-aid as a songwriter.
My drummer doesn't know how to play guitar. I don't know how to play drums. So I am not going to tell him what to do on his instrument just as he shouldn't tell me what to do on mine since we don't know how to play each others instrument. Imagine someone in your ear saying, "just do an open e power chord man, it'll be sick." I'm trying my best to get you to understand what I'm saying :(

I don't know where you're getting this "drink your own cool aid" thing from. I never said I was good, and never said that my drummers opinion doesn't matter. I don't consider myself a good song writer either. I take constructive criticism very well. But I don't like it when someone tells me what I should be doing when it comes to writing my own songs. It's not constructive criticism he's giving me though. He's telling me to write simple catchy stuff that people like, when I could give two hoots about what people like.

Should someone else dictate what or how you write? I don't think so, but if you disagree that's fine.

Doesn't sound like there was much of a band anyway, just 2 dudes fighting over what people like and don't like.
Sounds like you didn't actually read what I wrote and you're just trying to get a rise out of me for no apparent reason.

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 03:53 PM
I'd say end the band. Or if you wanna experiment and see if he can see through your eyes you could snap on him and tell him how you feel that hes being musically close minded when it comes to more interesting/complex songs... and/or you could nag him on certain aspects of his drumming here and there and just see how he handles it and if he snaps or gets pissed off tell him this is what he does... Some people learn through experience... but if hes not worth being taught the "lesson" ditch the band... "press the issue" as you say... ;)

My drummers vaugly like that, but he plays guitar as a hobby, i'd say i'm the primary songwriter of music and recently lyrics, me and the drummer are really tight and seems to musically insync, we've played together so long we just understand, but aside from that we have differing opinions for things, often myself being the songwriter, I get indepth with the project/song that i start to lose the idea of what is too much or too little of something or this and that, the drummer is my reality check, he listens to the song as I present it, he modifies lyrics, helps a lot with arrangment, fixes things here and there, hes kinda like how a producer would say do this or that for this or that... but someone I trust significantly more than a "Suit"...lol the rest of the band comes up with their own stuff and me and the drummer tend to modify arrangment and riffs unless its pretty much set to go.

I dont think your being musically self centered like the others are suggesting I just think you and your drummer are not on the same page and dont want to write the same kind of music... anyways you have to press this issue if you want to continue the band, otherwise your band is terminal...
Thank you! :hug:

That's exactly where I'm coming from. I share essentially the same relationship with my drummer. He's actually very good at helping with the arrangement of songs, and helped me get a lot better at structuring them better so they flow more neatly with the lyrics when I write. He's not very good with lyrics though :p: He writes a lot of cliched type of lines. Again, I still don't even think I'm that good at writing, but it's what I do all day everyday so I've gotten at least somewhat decent at picking out cliches and dry subjects in songs. I don't think he's a bad guy either, he's actually a good dude and has his head on right. There are just fundamental differences between us :shrug:

I've talked to him him two or three times about this, and thought the first time that the issues were all resolved, but they keep rearing their heads again and he keeps deciding other aspects of the band in advance without consulting me, as I mentioned earlier.

Assasaurus
01-20-2011, 03:54 PM
Part of being in a band is compromising, and it seems like you two are no where in that. Just end it in a respectful way, so hopefully everyone will be on good terms.

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 04:01 PM
Part of being in a band is compromising, and it seems like you two are no where in that. Just end it in a respectful way, so hopefully everyone will be on good terms.
I'm not a very argumentative person. I'm actually very passive and let things slide all the time. I compromise too much for my own good, to be honest. But I cannot dumb down the stuff I write all the time for a band I am also a part of just because the drummer cannot stand playing anything for punk that isn't verse chorus verse chorus done.

baf250
01-20-2011, 04:02 PM
I think not knowing how to play the guitar or drums is irrelevant to the situation. If you two are in a band, you should be comfortable telling eachother what you like and dont like. If our drummer plays something that really doesnt fit the song, we will say so, and vice versa. Otherwise it's not really a collaborative effort and we're each writing separately.

But if he's saying "you should do ___", I can understand why you'd be offended. That comes off very strongly and I take things like that as "you're doing it wrong".

If you're unhappy with the band and you feel there is no way to repair your relations, I agree with ending it.

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 04:10 PM
I think not knowing how to play the guitar or drums is irrelevant to the situation. If you two are in a band, you should be comfortable telling eachother what you like and dont like. If our drummer plays something that really doesnt fit the song, we will say so, and vice versa. Otherwise it's not really a collaborative effort and we're each writing separately.

But if he's saying "you should do ___", I can understand why you'd be offended. That comes off very strongly and I take things like that as "you're doing it wrong".

If you're unhappy with the band and you feel there is no way to repair your relations, I agree with ending it.
I wholly agree with what you're saying. Constructive criticism is essential to being in a band and being able to collaborate well and learn from each other is vital to the bands survival. I take criticism well, and will definitely consider any tips he can give me, but when he starts telling me stop writing what I would like to write I take offense. As a songwriter, would you even consider what someone is telling if they told you what you should be writing and they have little to no basis for such thinking? It's the equivalent of some 13 year old kid who just plays Madden all day telling Payton Manning what's what.

That's exactly what he is doing, not allowing for anything other than simple catchy stuff and blatantly telling me "that doesn't sound good" when I want to try and bring something more progressive and intricate to what we as a band write.

Punkrokkboi
01-20-2011, 04:53 PM
hahah.... Do you think Avenged Sevenfold told The Rev to just shut up and play drums when he wrote their best material? Naw cuz they new his Godly somng writing was far Superior to theirs lol. Same with Metallica and Lars Ulrich. Drummers have some of the best ideas and creative input bro. You should be happy that your members are trying to put ideas into the band, my drummer and bassist just o what I say... lol I wish they'd contribute something. It's hard being the only songwriter.

AlanHB
01-20-2011, 05:05 PM
I wasn't trying to get a rise out of ya mate, just pointing out the obvious. If there's two guys who spend more time fighting than gigging, practicing and writing, I don't think that they really qualify as a band. Additionally it sounds like there used to be other people there who have left. If there was a band there previously, it was on it's way out regardless.

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 05:12 PM
I wasn't trying to get a rise out of ya mate, just pointing out the obvious. If there's two guys who spend more time fighting than gigging, practicing and writing, I don't think that they really qualify as a band. Additionally it sounds like there used to be other people there who have left. If there was a band there previously, it was on it's way out regardless.
I gotcha now :cheers:. It's actually the opposite. We were always a two piece, and got along really well both musically and friendship-wise. We were always writing and practicing, and never fought. We have about 25 original songs under our belt.

It's only in the past month where I've seen several issues arise, tried to fix them by talking them out, and haven't seen anything get fixed. We actually only recently tried adding bass, and because the bassist brought his own palette of musical styles and playing skill to the table, the drummer thought things were being overcomplicated for the sake of being overcomplicated, which simply isn't true.

AlanHB
01-20-2011, 05:24 PM
It's only in the past month where I've seen several issues arise, tried to fix them by talking them out, and haven't seen anything get fixed. We actually only recently tried adding bass, and because the bassist brought his own palette of musical styles and playing skill to the table, the drummer thought things were being overcomplicated for the sake of being overcomplicated, which simply isn't true.

Geez. That's not a good situation to be in. Good to end it at team up with some more open-minded musicians. On the bright side you have a whole heap of songs done so it should be easy to get a set together quickly with the right musos.

Gerard_xD
01-20-2011, 05:30 PM
If you have a bassist why don't you look for a new drummer? I think I remember seeing your band in a thread in The Pit, and the drummer's not exactly doing much work, nor are the songs "overcomplicated"

CL/\SH
01-20-2011, 07:23 PM
If you have a bassist why don't you look for a new drummer? I think I remember seeing your band in a thread in The Pit, and the drummer's not exactly doing much work, nor are the songs "overcomplicated"
That's pretty much what I'm doing. I just finished jamming along with the bassist I'm currently associating myself with, and the two of us are going to show what we can do to a drummer tomorrow and see how it goes. We are still developing chemistry with each other but so far things are looking great.

Yeah, the one about the talent show right? You've seen first hand how simple it is, I'm looking to add a bassist to that sound so I can have more freedom as a guitarist and experiment with new things. This is what my drummer is protesting against, and the reason I've reevaluated being in a band with him. It's nowhere near complicated and I feel it has room to grow into something more unique.

Geez. That's not a good situation to be in. Good to end it at team up with some more open-minded musicians. On the bright side you have a whole heap of songs done so it should be easy to get a set together quickly with the right musos.
That's my sentiment, I mean I was scared to end the band at first, because it's the first legitimate band that I've ever been in that was able to really get off the ground. I've since changed my mind, seeing as how there has to be other drummers out there more than capable enough and want to play the same music as me. Indeed, I crank out a new song nearly every day. Like one in ten are actually worth something keeping, but it's relatively easy material. It's also very easy for someone to jump right in and start playing along with.

JDizzle787
01-22-2011, 04:25 AM
has any discussion of compromise come up at all? I've read as much as I can about it and it only seems like it's been mentioned a little bit.

CL/\SH
01-23-2011, 02:18 AM
I've specifically said the words compromise to him on more than one occasion, that we should find a medium and come to a mutual agreement on things like prices for shirts or how we disperse our music in the long run. After we did a live recording 2 months ago and it came out pretty decently things picked up and started to move along really quickly, different issues presented themselves, like him wanting to keep me from doing anything that wasn't simple or super digestible for a more widespread audience during practice.

SlackerBabbath
01-23-2011, 10:50 AM
I've specifically said the words compromise to him on more than one occasion,

Hmm, that's not exactly the impression one gets from this line.

Well, I'm gonna write what I want to write and he shouldn't disagree otherwise. He should just shut up and play his drums

I'm not having a go at you but I'm suggesting that the cause of the split isn't entirely one sided.

CL/\SH
01-23-2011, 12:11 PM
Hmm, that's not exactly the impression one gets from this line.



I'm not having a go at you but I'm suggesting that the cause of the split isn't entirely one sided.
I already explained that was just an expression and went into further detail to explain the situation.

SlackerBabbath
01-24-2011, 05:56 AM
I already explained that was just an expression and went into further detail to explain the situation.
Just sayin' is all,
To answer your question of how to split from him, just tell him straight that you wanna do other stuff that he simply refuses to do, if he's a reasonable person he'll understand, if he's not a reasonable person, tough titty, he'll just have to be unreasonable all on his own.

Of course, there is another option, you could always have a side project.

Declan87
01-29-2011, 10:50 PM
Sounds like the polar opposite to my band. I'm always writing catchy songs but my drummer and bassist prefer madder crazy shit so I only ever get to use my choruses.

Also we have a much more laid back working atmosphere, by the sounds of it. If the bassist writes a riff, I might jam over it for a while, then he'll give me some pointers and I'll take them on board and jam some more. Same with the drums; me and the bassist will suggest different beats and feels to the drummer and we'll try them all until we arrive at something we all like.

I think you should give it another chance, but go into it with a different mindset. Maybe he's right.

dmiwshicldply
01-30-2011, 02:20 PM
If i were you I would stick with this guy. Because with the attitude you've got I doubt you'll find anyone else willing to play with you for a while.