As a guest musician, I refused to pay for rehearsal time. Right, or wrong?


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urik
02-04-2011, 11:49 AM
8 months ago I left my band on good terms since they played straight rock and I want to play progressive rock. We kept talking through the internet, and I went to some of their gigs. I was invited to the other guitarist's birthday, and to other parties related to them. Our relationship was still cool, no grudges, still friends.
One week ago my replacement moved to another city to study medicine, so they asked me to replace him for a gig. I don't want to rejoin the band, but I'm always down for a gig so of course, I agreed.
Well, today after the rehearsal they included me in the rehearsal pay figures, so I said that I'm not part of the band and shouldn't pay.

Was I in the wrong? I played as a guest on another gig and wasn't asked to help with the rehearsal room. I'm doing them a favor after all :confused: .

sgwielder
02-04-2011, 11:52 AM
You're fine, unless they said beforehand they'd expect you to pay

KingHenrik1967
02-04-2011, 11:55 AM
nah, not your responsibility. unless pre-asked

Gulli05
02-04-2011, 12:04 PM
Unless they mentioned it before you agreed it is not your problem.

Eskil Rask
02-04-2011, 12:04 PM
You did the right thing in refusing. YOU did THEM a service and should not have to pay.

Xeus
02-04-2011, 12:14 PM
its their fault for not saying

HalfDose
02-04-2011, 03:14 PM
Yeah, maybe it should have been discussed before. But how much are we talking $10-$15??

I am about to hook up with a band who lost thier bass player. I've layed out that I will commit time to learn thier already writen songs, add my dna, record thier album and play a few shows until they find a full time replacement. I WILL NOT be paying for thier $300/mo practice space or ANY of the recording cost. Keeping it casual, but we agreed upon this upfront.

the_perdestrian
02-06-2011, 09:34 PM
yeah, im with you TS. you are helping them. its there band, you have nothing to gain and should not be expected to pay.

Birdy266
02-06-2011, 09:43 PM
The way I see it is if you have a guest over at your house, you don't ask them for money you spent on food for them do you? TS you're in the right

AlanHB
02-07-2011, 12:52 AM
Interesting situation. I'm guessing you're not expecting to be paid for the gig, and made it very clear that you're only in the band for this one time. If that's the case, then I don't think you should pay for the rehearsal space (although the amount being argued over is probably nothing).

SlackerBabbath
02-07-2011, 03:30 AM
8 months ago I left my band on good terms since they played straight rock and I want to play progressive rock. We kept talking through the internet, and I went to some of their gigs. I was invited to the other guitarist's birthday, and to other parties related to them. Our relationship was still cool, no grudges, still friends.
One week ago my replacement moved to another city to study medicine, so they asked me to replace him for a gig. I don't want to rejoin the band, but I'm always down for a gig so of course, I agreed.
Well, today after the rehearsal they included me in the rehearsal pay figures, so I said that I'm not part of the band and shouldn't pay.

Was I in the wrong? I played as a guest on another gig and wasn't asked to help with the rehearsal room. I'm doing them a favor after all :confused: .

Yeah, just so long as you don't expect to get paid for the gig, then they shouldn't really be expecting you to pay towards the cost of rehearsals.

If you are getting an equal share of the gig wage though, then it's only fair that you should pay an equal share of the rehearsal costs.

That said though, personaly, if it was me, even if I wasn't getting paid for the gig, I'd actualy still offer to pay my share anyway. Fair enough, you may not be an actual member of the band, but you are still entering into a 'band situation' that demands a 'team' spirit and feeling of camaraderie for the whole venture to be successful. After all, you do wish to remain good friends with these people and still get invited to their parties don't you?

It's just the polite thing to do, good etiquette, like offeing to help with the clearing of the table and the washing up after someone has had you as a guest at their house and made a meal for you. (yes, I'm looking at you Birdy266)

Split between a band, rehearsal money is generaly just pocket change anyway so it's hardly worth arguing about really and flatly refusing to pay such a small amount does tend to make one look like a cheapskate. Kinda like the guy who refuses to buy his round at the pub.
Which brings me to something else that's also worth thinking about here, and that is your 'reputation', I've said it before and I cannot stress it enough, your reputation is the single most important asset you can have as a musician and should be protected at all times. Even if you're just jamming with some buddies, you don't want to be doing anything that may cause the rest of them to talk crap about you behind your back. Remember, these guys are also musicians, and they are each bound to know other musicians and musicians often like to gossip. One slip up and your reputation can go from 'great guitarist, nice guy to work with' to 'great guitarist, bit of a scrooge though' which can make all the difference if someone is choosing between you and another guitarist for a future band or project.

Anything a musician does that involves working with other people should be treated as a PR exercise, that's not just politeness, that's also good business sense.

benn913
02-08-2011, 06:59 PM
You were right

TommyRack
02-08-2011, 07:38 PM
Even if you are getting paid for the gig, you shouldn't be expected to pay for rehearsal time. I'm constantly doing sessions stuff and it seems to be a known thing that deps don't pay for rehearsal time.

T

SlackerBabbath
02-09-2011, 03:40 AM
Even if you are getting paid for the gig, you shouldn't be expected to pay for rehearsal time. I'm constantly doing sessions stuff and it seems to be a known thing that deps don't pay for rehearsal time.

T

It's fair enough when someone's depping as a favour so that a band can play a full rehearsal while a member is away on holiday or something, or so that a band can play a non-profit gig, after all the dep is giving his time for free in both of those cases, so he shouldn't be expected to be losing money himself on behalf of the band he's helping out, but when someone is going to be making profit, it is my experience (an experience that's about 27 years long now) that they are expected to pay their fair share of costs.

After all, when the band gets paid, it takes away a net wage, (gross wage less costs) are you suggesting that the band should somehow arrange for the dep to get a gross wage so that he isn't paying towards costs?

The same works for any business opportunity/arrangement outside of music. When another partner is needed in any business venture where a group of people stand to make profit, he is expected to pay an equal share of the costs in order to gain the opportunity to earn an equal share of the profits. So why should it be any different for musicians?

asator
02-09-2011, 06:08 AM
Slacker, leave the poor italic function alone, you're going to burn it out :p:

But yeah I agree with SB as usual.

SlackerBabbath
02-09-2011, 08:31 AM
Slacker, leave the poor italic function alone, you're going to burn it out :p:
:haha:

Just trying to add emphasis. :p:

But yeah I agree with SB as usual.

:cheers:

kangaxxter
02-09-2011, 10:58 PM
SB, I agree with you for the most part. Except if, lets say, a band pays you to play with them (though I can't think of a example situation, of the top of my head). And there's an agreed upon price for what they're paying you, independent of whatever the band makes, and what your duties are supposed to be; like you don't need to contribute and just play what they tell you to play.

In a situation like that, I would expect the "Band" (the people who 'own' and are in charge of the band, and make money when the band makes money) to front any costs of rehearsal space, or renting equipment or any traveling expenses, because it would be more like you are an employee of the band, and they need to provide you with the means to do your agreed-upon duties.

SlackerBabbath
02-10-2011, 04:17 AM
SB, I agree with you for the most part. Except if, lets say, a band pays you to play with them (though I can't think of a example situation, of the top of my head). And there's an agreed upon price for what they're paying you, independent of whatever the band makes, and what your duties are supposed to be; like you don't need to contribute and just play what they tell you to play.

In a situation like that, I would expect the "Band" (the people who 'own' and are in charge of the band, and make money when the band makes money) to front any costs of rehearsal space, or renting equipment or any traveling expenses, because it would be more like you are an employee of the band, and they need to provide you with the means to do your agreed-upon duties.

This is true, however, the only reason I can think of for someone offering such a deal is because it would be cheaper than giving him an equal share of the split.

kangaxxter
02-11-2011, 05:44 PM
This is true, however, the only reason I can think of for someone offering such a deal is because it would be cheaper than giving him an equal share of the split.

Okay, just glad to know we're on the same page about it.

BrickIsRed
02-19-2011, 07:15 PM
Unless you have a God complex, you should pay like everyone else.

LazarusOnGrave
02-20-2011, 01:11 AM
Unless you have a God complex, you should pay like everyone else.

If you invite a friend to crash at your place a couple of nights, do you charge them a part of your rent after they've slept on the couch ? If so, then you have an a**hole complex.

The other thing is, is your name on the rental agreement? No, its not. So you are not obligated in any literal sense to pay rent. Remember, they invited you to come back as a sub for 1 gig, you didn't beg them to come back.

If they want you to come back full time, or you decide you want to go back, then its fair for them to say you would have to pay rent, like everyone else, as part of the condition for rejoining as a full time member.

This is pretty clearly a move by the rest of the band to try and con you into paying the departed bass player's rent. Whatever agreement they had they should have worked out before he left, and if they expected you to pay, they should have informed you up front. They obviously don't want to pony up the extra dough and are looking at you to help bail them out.

You were right in saying no.

isabiggles
02-20-2011, 02:26 PM
You should have paid. You used the rehearsal space just like everyone else and regardless of whether you're doing them a favour or not by playing the gig, it doesn't mean that you should get special treatment. It's just a bit stingey to not pay for the rehearsal space when it's normally pretty cheap anyway. I don't even see why it has to be an issue. With my old band we just gave whatever we had and were all pretty generous about it. No set amounts we had to bring etc.

Ryan Rage
02-20-2011, 02:37 PM
I'm with you bro, no need for you to pay. Are they trying to get you back in?