Forum-wide Album Collaboration [*.gp5/*.gp4]


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Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 11:52 AM
Ultimate-Guitar Album, Vol. 1 (Working Title)

What's Ultimate-Guitar Album, Vol. 1 (Working Title)? An idea of the community! What is our idea? It's actually an idea that has been expanded upon far greater than the ideas of the regular collaboration. The idea you ask? The idea is for renowned artists around the forum to perfect songs based on the mutual writing standard we all share. Someone will start a section of the album and someone will expand upon it; only to be followed by someone suggesting a change of a section, to be hit with someone suggesting a change to that change. Although there are no genre limitations, the ideal genre is going to be something along the lines of Post-Hardcore / Progressive / Metal / Experimental.* We're writing everything. We're adding all vocals, all guitars, and all drums, and all extras. EVERYTHING. We will construct from a concept that is written by all of our approved users.* Vocals will be written and the whole nine yards. We are going to try to build one of the least generic delicacies ever seen. :)
* Not set in stone.


Guidelines:

Guitar Pro 4 or 5 please. Absolutely no Guitar Pro 6. and TuxGuitar can only be used with warning. The fix for file breaks in TG is simple, copy the instrument tabs from the last not-suck file and paste them in the broken file.
We tab everything. (Clean vocals as Oboe, Screams as Gunshots [which can be muted at discretion]).
All instruments should be forced to one channel. Example: Guitar 1, First Channel 1, Second Channel 1, it works fine this way.
All individual instruments should get an individual track. This works better than all of the other methods of changing them with the F10/Mix Table function. It may make the file size up a little bit, but it's all good.
Approved composers can rewrite a section and suggest that rewrite to the original author of that section their fix/edits. Actions will be taken from there from the original author and rest of our writers.
Sections should be able to be inserted before and after any other section.
No song has to be final until we all mutually agree.
You may not write a section that is impossible to play or has not received any thought.
Only someone on the list of approved writers can be added to the composer list.
To be an approved composer, you must be able to be vouched for amongst the users of the forum. If you are not prevalent in the forums, do you not fret, submit a few pieces to our approved writers and receive the approval from two of them to be accepted onto the list!
New WIPs (works in progress) will be named: track_WIP3_(username)_1

WIPs with new additions will be named: track_WIP(number)_(name of person who started the WIP_(version number)

Put your WIP in the WIP folder we made in dropbox so we can all see what's going on and chip in!

Concept:
(The writing process has not begun.)

Approved Composer List:

Rokkstar (Credited as: Rokkstar)
frankibo (Credited as: frankibo)
Wquennasar (Credited as: Wquennasar)
champayne (Credited as: champayne)
DiminishedFaith (Credited as: DiminishedFaith)
Quibokk (Credited as: Quibokk)
guitar_jew (Credited as: guitar_jew)
JazzDeath (Credited as: JazzDeath)


Tracklisting (and links to threads):
(The writing process has not begun.)

edgespear
02-18-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm interested to see what people think of this, but would we write one song at a time? And would we all have to agree on what genre that song would be? 'cause not everyone likes the same kinda genre music so there may be some disagreements

Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm interested to see what people think of this, but would we write one song at a time? And would we all have to agree on what genre that song would be? 'cause not everyone likes the same kinda genre music so there may be some disagreements
Like I said no genre limitations and we could be working on several songs at once. :) But we don't need to have 50 songs on it haha, ya know?

Mean Mr Mustard
02-18-2011, 01:11 PM
Hey man, just to point out, Im pretty sure that multi's arent allowed and you could get banned for that. But anyways, it sounds like a standard collab, but does each person write their own song, or add on to other's songs?

Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 01:51 PM
Hey man, just to point out, Im pretty sure that multi's arent allowed and you could get banned for that. But anyways, it sounds like a standard collab, but does each person write their own song, or add on to other's songs?
Well, I don't ever plan on using the other one again, and I would need a good reason to change the other name. And it's not like I created another account to escape a ban which is what the rule is specific to I believe. If I could delete the other I would. Neither one of us (me or UG staff) have anything to lose or gain from banning me really, so I don't see why they wouldn't let it slide, but if they ban me, it's all good. But every person could add as much to a song as they wanted/could. If they wrote an entire song someone else could pick it up and rewrite sections, etc etc. Ya know what I'm sayin'?

edgespear
02-18-2011, 02:04 PM
So this is basically like a more serious version of the compilation gp song? Does someone just randomly come in with a gp start file and say "add to this" or something like that? And who gets final say, like if someone changes something someone else has written, who says whether it should be changed back if the original person doesn't like the change?

frankibo
02-18-2011, 02:47 PM
I think a good start would be to take the names of a few people who want to participate.
Make sure there aren't too many people or it'll become a mess. Make sure they're well known in the forum and that everyone involved respects their composing abilities. I'm not really to keen on being part of a collab if it's gonna deteriorate into a bree/generic metalcore/grindcore (etc) fest. I sometimes write that stuff into collabs for a laugh but I don't really wanna see it in a serious album.
Finalise the names that will be involved and that will stop it getting out of hand.

So to start it off, I'd like to participate.
You may now deliberate as to whether I should be permitted to join.

I also think that rather then forcefully editing other peoples songs, it would be better to suggest corrections and improvements and new parts and see how everyone feels about them. It'd be nice if we can get to a point where we all like what we've created.

Also maybe it'd be nice to make it a rule to only write parts that either;
1) you can play yourself
2) It's reasonable to assume one of the other collaborators who may have equipment you don't have or is slightly better at a certain instrument can play the part
3) Can be nicely simulated with a VST

That'd leave it open to being recorded at some point which would be sweet and I'd love to be a part of that. So basically I won't be writing 8 string triplet 32nd note sweeps. I can't do that and I think it's pushing it to assume that most people can haha.

guitar_jew
02-18-2011, 06:39 PM
I think a good start would be to take the names of a few people who want to participate.
Make sure there aren't too many people or it'll become a mess.


This. I'd like to participate. I think to avoid monotony, we need to limit genre appearances. I don't want to outright ban metalcore compositions, but I don't want them to comprise the majority of the album, either.

Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 08:28 PM
Well good point to bring about, see it's good when we all get together and brainstorm because details like that, no one person can think about on their own. So no, no one random can come about and just write something onto it, they have to be a respected composer amongst the forum. At least two people, I believe is fair, must be able to vouch for a writer in order for them to be able to be added to the list of writers for this album. Great idea Frank. We should all go into the UG IRC channel and discuss things in real time perhaps? :) I'll be there.

edgespear
02-18-2011, 08:32 PM
I'd like to help contribute but I haven't uploaded anything i've written =/ Can people not like, add to the composition what they think and if you don't think it's good then just don't use it?

Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 08:46 PM
UG IRC Chat is down currently... =\
I'd like to help contribute but I haven't uploaded anything i've written =/ Can people not like, add to the composition what they think and if you don't think it's good then just don't use it?
I thought about that before I read your post and so I added that to the guidelines as well. You can submit a few pieces of material you have written to composers on the approved composer list and then they will approve or deny you. I think two approvals is fair enough. I vouch for Frankibo, I love his writing. Anyone vouch for me? If not, this is embarassing... >.> lol. All my music is on my defiance64 account, so I'll just link to pieces I wrote:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1305743
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1404601
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1368476
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1411677
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1393192

Not amazing, but I think they're slightly good? :) Approve or deny me? :D

Wquennasar
02-18-2011, 08:48 PM
I'm not sure how exactly the album is going to be done. Do we just start several different collabs? Someone uploads an intro, then someone else throws up a verse? I get the idea that we all collab on the songs, but I don't get how the songs would get done in the first place.

I'm interested, but this whole thing will collapse if there isn't a concrete format/plan, especially given the scale of the project.

Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 08:59 PM
I'm not sure how exactly the album is going to be done. Do we just start several different collabs? Someone uploads an intro, then someone else throws up a verse? I get the idea that we all collab on the songs, but I don't get how the songs would get done in the first place.

I'm interested, but this whole thing will collapse if there isn't a concrete format/plan, especially given the scale of the project.
Well generally the idea is to be a regular collaboration, except with only approved writers so that it's not the key of C-major being sick nasty, and all of a sudden the key of suck open chord breakdowns for the rest of the song. I'm thinking we should create individual threads linking back to this thread for each song, so we can work on multiple songs at once, and still only allowing the approved writers to contribute. All in all it's going to be a regular collaboration, just with approved writers. So if you want to write a verse, or a verse and chorus, you can add it in, and instead of us labeling each part our names, we name it what we believe the section is, and in the list of composers inside the GP5 files we list our names, and as well as on the title of the song on the list of songs in the final download.

Example:

01 Goats are Sacred
- Written by User1, User2, ICan'tBelieveIGotApproved, User4
02 Goats are Still Sacred
- Written by User6, User5, User1, User7, User8

And when we record it, or sample it or whatever and we have a singer or something in the future (let's not discuss this quite yet until we have the kinks worked out for writing the songs FOR this) then we can record it and all that jazz blah blah blah and list everyone who recorded/sampled it in a MP3 format.

The idea is anyone can suggest a fix for a section (from the approved writers) and the person who wrote the section can accept or deny it. So it's just a more mature version of your everyday collab. Suggestions?

frankibo
02-18-2011, 09:27 PM
Well I've already got an intro that can be expanded on by someone. It's just like a little djenty polyrhythymic riff.
I think that's how it should work to begin, we'll work on a little something individually, submit it, and then people can contribute to sections of each others pieces. Stuff like vocals I'll leave to someone else, but I can contribute on all other instruments.

Also I'll definitely vouch of Rokkstar. Your new compositions are great, kept your great writing but ditched the generic.

Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 09:39 PM
Well I've already got an intro that can be expanded on by someone. It's just like a little djenty polyrhythymic riff.
I think that's how it should work to begin, we'll work on a little something individually, submit it, and then people can contribute to sections of each others pieces. Stuff like vocals I'll leave to someone else, but I can contribute on all other instruments.

Also I'll definitely vouch of Rokkstar. Your new compositions are great, kept your great writing but ditched the generic.
So lets decide how we want to do this... Do we want to create a new thread? And also Wquenn, if you're wanting to contribute, I can say that you spend some time on some stuff that you put up around here, so you have MY approval.

champayne
02-18-2011, 10:15 PM
I think this is actually a pretty good idea. I'm really tired of people writing half-ass breakdowns when they can't think of anything good to write in collabs. I'd be willing to sample it, but the basic MIDI converter trial I had expired and FL Studio doesn't seem to went to recognize slides or bends properly :/.

frankibo
02-18-2011, 10:15 PM
So lets decide how we want to do this... Do we want to create a new thread? And also Wquenn, if you're wanting to contribute, I can say that you spend some time on some stuff that you put up around here, so you have MY approval.

I'll give my approval on one condition.
please don't make all the songs a power metal fest about dragons and kings. Please. I still have nightmares about those collabs.

champayne
02-18-2011, 10:23 PM
I'll give my approval on one condition.
please don't make all the songs a power metal fest about dragons and kings. Please. I still have nightmares about those collabs.

Oooooh. I remember that thread. And the dragon/hero shooting section towards the end.

Wquennasar
02-18-2011, 10:55 PM
Haha, I don't even write that much power metal! It was just a fun/cheesy little thing for the collab.

I can approve frank/champayne for all the collabs we did last year, and defiance for the bitchin' banjo riff in the recent collab.

@champayne - Check out REAPER, I think it's better than FL Studio for non-techno stuff. With the right VSTs you can get a good sound out of midis. Plus, it's free.

guitar_jew
02-18-2011, 11:05 PM
Well, if I need vouching, these are the compositions I'd recommend.

He Who Sits on the Throne of the Ruined World (in my sig)
This thing here. (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1408343)
Zeromus- Final Fantasy IV, Metal arrangement (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1403833)

Although if I were to write for this, I'd definitely go in a less technical direction, say, like this. (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1355148)

Vouchers from me go to Rokkstar (he started the thing, and no one seems to dislike his stuff, so...) Wquennasar, frankibo, and champayne. I've looked at their stuff from time to time (sorry if I never critted- if so it was because I didn't have anything useful to say) and their adds to the collabs.

My vote says we work out ALL details and participants on this thread first, and just add a (ALBUM) marker to all thread titles of pieces being submitted for this, or something like that. That way, the general population of T&C can crit our work, too.

EDIT: Also, on the assumption that I get in (if not, well, then this is irrelevant), I don't want to be credited as guitar_jew. XD Jeffro The Man is my new handle on every other site, I just don't want to be bothered with making a new email address for UG.

champayne
02-18-2011, 11:21 PM
Ahh, that's a pretty good idea. I say everyone should post a few samples of their work and see who would vouch for them. I would recommend everyone interested so far, I've seen your work: Rokkstar, guitar_jew (or Jeffro the Man), Wquennessar, and frankibo. If you need to look at my work, check out "The Nightman Awakens" or "Synthetic Damage", or "Into the Sunset" if you're looking for something less technical in my sig.

Rokkstar
02-18-2011, 11:44 PM
Yeah, good idea champ, I already posted a few links to my work in the post on the first page, plus my sig has all of my works...

DiminishedFifth
02-19-2011, 12:17 AM
I'd be down. It just has to be organized properly. I've been around for awhile, so I'm sure many of you have heard my work. If not, links in sig and here (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1408814).

All of my stuff is going to be a bit djenty, most likely in a weird tuning, and jazz-ish :haha: Just a forewarning.

Quibokk
02-19-2011, 12:41 AM
This sounds pretty cool. I'd be keen for participating, but only if I'm wanted, as I'm quite happy to simply watch and see how this turns out.
Discretionary note: can't play anything, so keep that in mind if the ultimate goal is recording the album in some capacity. Not really expecting to be accepted, but figured I might as well put myself out there. Hope this gets finished, I'm very curious to see how all the different writers are going to mesh. ;)

See any of the relatively recent work in my sig if anyone is interested in vouching for me or not. Not sure how to sell myself besides saying that my work is primarily focused on melody... or least I think so. :p:

frankibo
02-19-2011, 10:37 AM
Wquennasar, guitar_jew, champayne, DiminishedFifth and Quibokk all get my vote.
I like the djentyness that champayne and DiminishedFith bring, the progressive side that Rokkstar brings, the atmospheric and beautiful clean parts that Quibokk brings, that post-hardcore riffage that guitar_jew brings and... well... I haven't really listened to Wquennasar's stuff but he's promised not to write power metal so I'm cool with that.

I'm excited about the post-hardcore/djenty-ness that is being brought to the table. My two favourite genres, I think they'd mesh together really well. It's also the sort of stuff I tend to write nowadays so I'm really excited to be involved in this.
Think djent grooves, atmospheric cleans, melody and dissonance and big choruses.

Maybe it'd be an idea to kinda push the album in a general genre direction? Otherwise it might lose focus and become a shambles of genre mash ups like the collabs on here. Just an idea but I'd love to see a progressive/ post-hardcore/ djent album. That would be awesome.

Rokkstar
02-19-2011, 12:12 PM
Maybe it'd be an idea to kinda push the album in a general genre direction? Otherwise it might lose focus and become a shambles of genre mash ups like the collabs on here. Just an idea but I'd love to see a progressive/ post-hardcore/ djent album. That would be awesome.
I'm down for (Post-)Hardcore/Progressive/Experimental/Metal/Rock. Plus I think we should incorporate the major-key into it, because it's very underly-saturated in the genres that are in discussion, and I don't mean like the whole album be major key, I mean just let's not go shy of using it. A lot of the users in this forum do shy away from it, and keep it generic metalcore, believe me, I've been there.

Quibokk gets a vote from, he's ballin'. DiminishedFaith and Quibokk must've worked together because they both have "Cloud 9" on their minds haha. guitar_jew has some nicely themed sections to his pieces and he seems to spend a lot of time on them. So I'd say he's in. So I suppose that means they make our roster! :)

MetaIronForce
02-19-2011, 02:28 PM
I'd like to join. As well as the stuff in my sig, I have a load of unfinished stuff like a rock ballad, and a song called Heatseeker which is going to be a long hard rock song with some shreddy bits.

I mainly write classic rock/hard rock/classic metal stuff. By classic metal, i mean Iron Maiden sort of stuff.

I just finished working on a solo and I'm impressed myself with the lick I've just wrote. It sounds fast, and awesome, but its in no way insanely tricky.
I like writing solos and riffs. A good example of my riffs can be found in Blue Jam (in my sig), and this unfinished thing: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9731723/Original%20Songs/Driving%20Rock%20Riffs%20-%20Am220.gp5

I would also like to say there should be absolutely no TuxGuitar at all, because even after you fix it, you've put Tuxguitar data into a GP file and wierd stuff can still occasionally happen.

guitar_jew
02-19-2011, 06:30 PM
I would also like to say there should be absolutely no TuxGuitar at all, because even after you fix it, you've put Tuxguitar data into a GP file and wierd stuff can still occasionally happen.

I think that would exclude too many people. Since it appears Arobas Music isn't selling GP5 anymore, and we've banned the use of Guitar Pro 6, the only alternative for people who don't have it is TuxGuitar.

DiminishedFifth
02-19-2011, 06:47 PM
I think that would exclude too many people. Since it appears Arobas Music isn't selling GP5 anymore, and we've banned the use of Guitar Pro 6, the only alternative for people who don't have it is TuxGuitar.
They could always acquire it "other" ways.

I think that the genre we have picked is awesome. We just gotta make sure that we do it.

Are we gonna pick what songs on the album we take?

Rokkstar
02-19-2011, 06:59 PM
They could always acquire it "other" ways.

I think that the genre we have picked is awesome. We just gotta make sure that we do it.

Are we gonna pick what songs on the album we take?
I think that we should work by a concept for the record kinda... Kinda like a book in album form. And I don't mean "Children are dying in Africa.", I mean like "She's taking the knife from the drawer, she can't take this anymore." idk just dramatic type stuff. Of course breaking away from genericness we need to avoid certain subjects... And if we decide to do a book/concept type album then we could select which sections we want to work on, but nonetheless we're all working on all the sections to perfect it for each other respectively.

What do you guys think? :)

champayne
02-19-2011, 07:24 PM
I think that we should work by a concept for the record kinda... Kinda like a book in album form. And I don't mean "Children are dying in Africa.", I mean like "She's taking the knife from the drawer, she can't take this anymore." idk just dramatic type stuff. Of course breaking away from genericness we need to avoid certain subjects... And if we decide to do a book/concept type album then we could select which sections we want to work on, but nonetheless we're all working on all the sections to perfect it for each other respectively.

What do you guys think? :)


Think about the children in africa :(


I do think the idea of a concept album is a pretty good idea.

Rokkstar
02-19-2011, 07:31 PM
Think about the children in africa :(


I do think the idea of a concept album is a pretty good idea.
We'll sell our recorded final and all proceeds will go to them. :) lol....Hehe...>.>

So first, let's discuss the tweaks/other guidelines that must be followed... Read the first post for the current list.

Quibokk
02-19-2011, 08:38 PM
Definitely agree with giving the album a focus with a central genre and concept - I'm not very picky, as long as I can fit in with what's there.

I've just been wondering about contact - I guess the general idea atm is that we'll just be emailing each other with updates/suggestions...? I personally think a good idea would be to utilise Google Docs for noting who is working on what track, and who has got suggestions for each track. An easy way to keep things neat and tidy. Obviously that would mean either getting a Google account or sacrificing the privacy of your already existing one to the rest of us, though. :p:
Opinions? Perhaps it's overkill, but having a public document to all of the contributors definitely helps keep everyone on the same page.

EDIT: Or using the forum for all of this? Funnily enough didn't consider that. :p:

Rokkstar
02-19-2011, 08:47 PM
Definitely agree with giving the album a focus with a central genre and concept - I'm not very picky, as long as I can fit in with what's there.

I've just been wondering about contact - I guess the general idea atm is that we'll just be emailing each other with updates/suggestions...? I personally think a good idea would be to utilise Google Docs for noting who is working on what track, and who has got suggestions for each track. An easy way to keep things neat and tidy. Obviously that would mean either getting a Google account or sacrificing the privacy of your already existing one to the rest of us, though. :p:
Opinions? Perhaps it's overkill, but having a public document to all of the contributors definitely helps keep everyone on the same page.

EDIT: Or using the forum for all of this? Funnily enough didn't consider that. :p:
Well. I'm good with Googling. It's up to the rest of'em. :) Everyone should get a Skype or something and we can all get on that and discuss in a group IM/voice chat.

DiminishedFifth
02-19-2011, 09:59 PM
I've got a skype and an msn.

I think a good concept would be an epic poem. I'm not gonna give you the one I'm gonna do on my own, but I think it'd be a fun concept! Or a good book/play.

I, personally, will not be using vocals whatsoever. I prefer longish instrumentals (6-7 minutes).

guitar_jew
02-19-2011, 10:19 PM
The concept thing is a great idea, but short of all of us being identical philosophically (guaranteed to NOT be the case :P), determining an overall theme that everyone can agree with will be difficult.

champayne
02-19-2011, 10:38 PM
We should set the concept and the tuning first. I guess we can switch, but I think that setting a predetermined tuning would be easier on everybody and we won't have standard-to-drop-A conflicts. I'm really excited to get this started, but how exactly will we get this started? Do we just do individual threads for each song?

Rokkstar
02-19-2011, 11:23 PM
Yeah I think we should all get on Skype. What is everyone's Skype address? :) dustin-daigle here.

guitar_jew
02-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Signed up and installing Skype now. Username is JeffroTheMan.

champayne
02-19-2011, 11:42 PM
Signed up. Will install later. Username - champaynesexualharassmentpanda

DiminishedFifth
02-20-2011, 01:23 AM
guitar_jew: We don't have to have a philosophically based concept. Just throw out some ideas and we could vote on them.

My skype is... zeishou or zeinick. If that doesn't work, look up "Nick Nicoletti"

Quibokk
02-20-2011, 01:39 AM
My skype is quibokk27 - I've already added all the people that have supplied theirs here so far.

dylann
02-20-2011, 06:47 AM
i will participate :)

MetaIronForce
02-20-2011, 09:32 AM
So am I in?

I've nearly finished my rock ballad song, so I'll post that as another example of my work when its done.

Also, is it ok if I write classic rock stuff for this album?

Rokkstar
02-20-2011, 11:30 AM
I couldn't vouch for either of you because, dylann, I'm not too sure that the only song that you have up is up to par with what we're trying to accomplish. Try submitting pieces to our writers instead...Reading the first post would have clarified this, lol. :P MetalronForce, I went to check out your stuff, and I couldn't get a link to work... So, instead of hotlinking a file, just attach it to your post. It's 100% guaranteed.

MetaIronForce
02-20-2011, 12:06 PM
I couldn't vouch for either of you because, dylann, I'm not too sure that the only song that you have up is up to par with what we're trying to accomplish. Try submitting pieces to our writers instead...Reading the first post would have clarified this, lol. :P MetalronForce, I went to check out your stuff, and I couldn't get a link to work... So, instead of hotlinking a file, just attach it to your post. It's 100% guaranteed.
I've fixed all the links in the thread now, but here they are:

Blue Jam (this is closest to what I normally write) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9731723/Original%20Songs/Blue%20Jam.gp5)
Fake Tan and Faker Hair (happy cheesy rock song) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9731723/Original%20Songs/Fake%20Tan%20and%20Faker%20Hair.gp5)
Robot Music (techno video game song) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9731723/Original%20Songs/robot%20music.gp5)


I also messaged you an unfinished song.

dylann
02-20-2011, 12:50 PM
here is somthing to prove my worth i guess i never done a calabaration and sorry my english is really bad

DiminishedFifth
02-20-2011, 02:47 PM
If we're going to be deciding on a tuning I'll go ahead and throw out the two that I've used for the past 6 or 7 songs:

CGDFAE (Open CM13no7)
Ab Ab Db Gb Bb Eb (Double Dropped Ab or Dropped Octave Ab)

The two Ab's are octaves of each other, NOT unison notes. Everything else is just... tuned down a half-step.

frankibo
02-20-2011, 04:25 PM
My skype name is frank.young.

I'm gonna have to vote no to dylann and metalironforce. Sorry but I just don't think they can write the genre we want.

I think we've got a good enough list of people now. We all sound damn enthusiastic about it so let's finalise things and get started?

All we need is a concept for our post-hardcore/ progressive/ experimental metal album.
We could do something like take a section from a poem/book etc and each take a line from that as a song name and theme? Just an idea

Also DiminishedFifth neither of those tunings really work for me, I'd prefer something more standardised! Either a drop tuning (B,A#?) or a drop tuning with the low string down a step and a half further (B low G#, A# low G?)

guitar_jew
02-20-2011, 04:34 PM
I never really understood the point of setting a universal tuning? I'm more inclined to write in standard tunings, but I also see that DF writes excellent stuff with his unique tunings, and if that's what he's good at, I don't want to take that away from him.

JazzDeath
02-20-2011, 04:35 PM
I'd be interested if this concept gets some serious polish and allows for people to take their time to compose their section, if it's rushed, unpolished, and ressembles the winter jam or shit like that I'm not interested in any way...

Also if you do consider me I will make sure everything is very much playable, within instrument range, and not overly technical/complex as I do have a knack of doing. I do play guitar drums and bass and I can write the parts with them in hand to make sure they are very much playable.

Up to you guys.

JazzDeath
02-20-2011, 04:36 PM
Also I don't see why you can't use more than one tuning from song to song.

frankibo
02-20-2011, 04:39 PM
Also I don't see why you can't use more than one tuning from song to song.

I agree.
As long as you personally have the equipment to record what you write then it should be fine.

DiminishedFifth
02-20-2011, 04:59 PM
I agree.
As long as you personally have the equipment to record what you write then it should be fine.
We're not recording are we?

Cause, if so, I'm out unless someone will record what I've written.

guitar_jew
02-20-2011, 05:02 PM
I vouch for JazzDeath as a contributor. He writes great music.

guitar_jew
02-20-2011, 05:04 PM
We're not recording are we?

Cause, if so, I'm out unless someone will record what I've written.

I think I could play most of the guitar parts you've written (that I've seen anyway.) We need to write the thing first before even considering recording, IMO.

MetaIronForce
02-20-2011, 05:12 PM
So now my links work and everything, can I have some votes?

frankibo
02-20-2011, 05:17 PM
So now my links work and everything, can I have some votes?

I've already said no, sorry. I justified above.

Also JazzDeath, I like your compositions but I'm not sure how they fit our genres. I'll let everyone else decide, I'm on the fence on this one.

Also, personally, I want the plug pulled on new people now.
We'd have 7, 8 if JazzDeath is approved.
I think if we start a song each we'll have 7 (or 8) songs, they're all gonna end up being rather long (probably toward 10 minutes) so I think they'd be more then enough material for an album. What does everyone else think?

DiminishedFifth
02-20-2011, 05:32 PM
I'm good with this amount of people.

I'll try not to make my songs too hard then :haha: They usually aren't, but you never know!

frankibo
02-20-2011, 05:52 PM
Concept idea?

The Guy in the Glass

by: Dale Wimbrow

When you get what you want in your struggle for self
And the world makes you king for a day
Just go to the mirror and look at yourself
And see what that man has to say.

For it isn’t your Father or Mother or wife
Whose judgment upon you must pass.
The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life
Is the one staring back from the glass.

Some people may call you a straight shooting chum
And call you a wonderful guy,
but the man in the glass says you’re only a bum
If you can’t look him straight in the eye.

He’s the fellow to please, never mind all the rest
For he’s with you clear to the end,
And you have passed your most dangerous test
If the man in the glass is your friend.

You may face the whole world down the pathway of life
And get pats on the back when you pass,
But your final reward will be heartache and strife
If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.

The idea of actually making yourself truly the happy to the point that you can face yourself in the mirror and everything you've done is quite a powerful idea and is also a fairly blank canvas as to emotion. Just a thought.

champayne
02-20-2011, 05:56 PM
I've already said no, sorry. I justified above.

Also JazzDeath, I like your compositions but I'm not sure how they fit our genres. I'll let everyone else decide, I'm on the fence on this one.

Also, personally, I want the plug pulled on new people now.
We'd have 7, 8 if JazzDeath is approved.
I think if we start a song each we'll have 7 (or 8) songs, they're all gonna end up being rather long (probably toward 10 minutes) so I think they'd be more then enough material for an album. What does everyone else think?

Yeah, I was thinking about that. I say every person should start a song and then we'll go on from there. I have no idea how that would be organized though... individual threads? Skype?

guitar_jew
02-20-2011, 05:59 PM
Concept idea?


The idea of actually making yourself truly the happy to the point that you can face yourself in the mirror and everything you've done is quite a powerful idea and is also a fairly blank canvas as to emotion. Just a thought.

Essentially the Nietzschean overman- the man who is constantly affirming his existence, enjoying his life by his own independently formulated values and standards without regrets. If I'm mistaken in this interpretation, let me know, but that's what I got from it.

frankibo
02-20-2011, 06:04 PM
Essentially the Nietzschean overman- the man who is constantly affirming his existence, enjoying his life by his own independently formulated values and standards without regrets. If I'm mistaken in this interpretation, let me know, but that's what I got from it.

Essentially yes, but **** is it complicated when you really get into it.

Übermensch

Another concept important to an understanding of Nietzsche's thought is the Übermensch. While interpretations of Nietzsche's overman vary wildly, here are a few of his quotations from Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Prologue, §§3–4):

"I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him? … All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood, and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is ape to man? A laughing stock or painful embarrassment. And man shall be that to overman: a laughingstock or painful embarrassment. You have made your way from worm to man, and much in you is still worm. Once you were apes, and even now, too, man is more ape than any ape.... The overman is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the overman shall be the meaning of the earth.... Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman—a rope over an abyss … what is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end."



Maybe Übermensch would be a better concept?

guitar_jew
02-20-2011, 06:10 PM
Yes, I actually just finished reading Zarathustra a week or so ago. However, Nietzsche's ideas are still largely controversial, and I think that unless we get a consensus on the concept, we should wait before exploring it further.

frankibo
02-20-2011, 06:17 PM
Yes, I actually just finished reading Zarathustra a week or so ago. However, Nietzsche's ideas are still largely controversial, and I think that unless we get a consensus on the concept, we should wait before exploring it further.

You are clearly far more educated on the matter then I am!
If we can reach a consensus on this I'd love for this to be the concept. I've been reading about it a bit and it's some really deep crazy shit which I'm really enjoying reading about, he makes some crazy points. But yeah, lets see what the over all consensus is.

Rokkstar
02-20-2011, 06:59 PM
I thought perhaps maybe we could write our own concept by fusing different ideas thrown back and forth between each other. But I like the concepts being thrown around already. Also as for writers, I believe we're good for now, and I hate to sound rude, but it's a no to Metalron..., and dylann, and it's not because you cannot write, it's because I'm not too sure what you're writing is going to be par with what we're wanting to go for, I could be wrong, but for now, I think not. It may not seem like a lot, but 7 or 8 writers is a lot to lasso as it is. For the rest of our composers, we shall go into far more detail on Skype. What's a time good for everyone to be on?

List a Central Standard converted time for everyone below.
Useful tool: http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc

MetaIronForce
02-20-2011, 07:17 PM
I thought perhaps maybe we could write our own concept by fusing different ideas thrown back and forth between each other. But I like the concepts being thrown around already. Also as for writers, I believe we're good for now, and I hate to sound rude, but it's a no to Metalron..., and dylann, and it's not because you cannot write, it's because I'm not too sure what you're writing is going to be par with what we're wanting to go for, I could be wrong, but for now, I think not. It may not seem like a lot, but 7 or 8 writers is a lot to lasso as it is. For the rest of our composers, we shall go into far more detail on Skype. What's a time good for everyone to be on?

List a Central Standard converted time for everyone below.
Useful tool: http://www.timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc
That's all right. From the more recnt posts, this looks way too confusing for me anyway.

frankibo
02-20-2011, 07:20 PM
I'm on GMT so I think I'm 6 hours ahead. I also have uni everyday so basically I'm only free in the evening. But for it to be a good time for most of you in the US I think I'll have to come on at like 11 or 12pm, so 5 or 6pm for you guys?

frankibo
02-20-2011, 07:26 PM
I thought perhaps maybe we could write our own concept by fusing different ideas thrown back and forth between each other. But I like the concepts being thrown around already.

Also that's a good idea but that sounds quite difficult! If some ideas get thrown around I'll see if I can contribute though.

champayne
02-20-2011, 09:20 PM
I'm usually on in the evenings after 6 P.M. eastern time, but I will try to get on earlier.

Also, I started writing a part this morning. Not really sure if it fits what we're going for, but it's proggy and melodic. Should I post it?

JazzDeath
02-20-2011, 09:48 PM
I like the concept mucho

champayne
02-20-2011, 09:50 PM
I vouch for JazzDeath, get an even number on the writers?

guitar_jew
02-20-2011, 10:02 PM
I live in the US Central time zone, which is GMT -6:00. Throughout the week, I'm in school until 2:30, and unless I'm hanging out with people, I'm usually on the computer the rest of the day, with the exception of eating dinner and cleaning the kitchen (usually 7:30-8:30 for both). Over the weekends I'm on all day, again, unless I'm out with friends.

JazzDeath
02-20-2011, 11:33 PM
I live in eastern time

Rokkstar
02-20-2011, 11:41 PM
I live in eastern time
JazzDeath is good with me, I like him. Jazz, what's your Skype?

Quibokk
02-21-2011, 12:50 AM
Better show my presence here. :p:

Yep, Jazz is good, killer drumwork. ;)

I live in the Auckland timezone, which is GMT +13 (daylight saving atm for the curious/confused). I'm usually online in the evenings if not the mornings - not sure what my timetable for this coming semester is yet, despite it starting next week. So in terms of Central Standard time, from around 11pm onwards.

frankibo
02-21-2011, 04:31 AM
It is going to be rather difficult to all be on skype at once :haha:

And champayne, I would hold of posting until we get the concept down!

Wquennasar
02-21-2011, 07:04 AM
Hey guys, my Skype is Wquennasar (didn't see that coming, didja?)

Here are my ideas/suggestions:

Genre - I suggest Melodic/Prog/Death Metal for the genre.

Concept/themes - I like the Nietzschean overman concept. I'd suggest some ambient nature/fantasy/horror themes if that doesn't work out for some reason.

Album - I personally love instrumental/acoustic intros, so I suggest that we open with an instrumental piece.

As for the collab - I'm fine with JazzDeath, he's an amazing drummer, and my time zone is EST/GMT-5. If we all want to be on at the same time, we could probably do it on a Sunday, otherwise we can just post a summary/chatlog to keep everyone up to date.

Wquennasar
02-21-2011, 07:53 AM
I'd prefer BEADGBE as the 'standard' tuning, definitely not comfortable with perfect 4ths or CGDFAE or other crazy tunings.

frankibo
02-21-2011, 09:45 AM
Genre - I suggest Melodic/Prog/Death Metal for the genre.

We were planning to go for a most post-hardcore/experimental approach rather than melodic death metal, I also feel like that genre almost ends up being metalcore.

But we're almost ready to go, just need everyone's opinions on a concept!

Rokkstar
02-21-2011, 11:51 AM
Of course it can have influence from any genre you prefer, but it's going to generally stick as a post-hardcore/experimental. But it can be like melodeath in some sections if it so happens to be like that. Added you on Skype.

JazzDeath
02-21-2011, 12:00 PM
I don't have skype, I guess I'll get it.

champayne
02-21-2011, 12:43 PM
I can get on 2:30ish eastern time.

JazzDeath
02-21-2011, 06:14 PM
So we're gonna discuss this on Skype or something?

We should have a dropbox folder for this project where we can drop what we work on and maybe we could make a plan before we start each section...

I had an idea for an intro to the first tune, maybe we could fade in some tribal drum thingy and then begin an instrumental Djenty-type, poly-rhythmic groove, and implement some nice full chords/guitar melodies on top...

champayne
02-21-2011, 06:45 PM
So we're gonna discuss this on Skype or something?

We should have a dropbox folder for this project where we can drop what we work on and maybe we could make a plan before we start each section...

I had an idea for an intro to the first tune, maybe we could fade in some tribal drum thingy and then begin an instrumental Djenty-type, poly-rhythmic groove, and implement some nice full chords/guitar melodies on top...

That would be a nice idea. We can each work on different songs and there will be no interference from others. I got an intro part written yesterday that I think could be the second or third track or maybe towards the end.

Also, are there any rules as how you tab out the drums? Some people use "36" as their kick and "40" as their snare, while others use "35" as their kick and "38" as their snare, which sound a bit different from each other.

guitar_jew
02-21-2011, 07:07 PM
I don't think drums matter specifically for now. Nitpicking. Also, JD, there's been some discussion going on Skype.

frankibo
02-21-2011, 07:11 PM
Also, are there any rules as how you tab out the drums? Some people use "36" as their kick and "40" as their snare, while others use "35" as their kick and "38" as their snare, which sound a bit different from each other.

I write drums like this, I find it's the easiest way to follow whats been written.
So it'd be nice if people wrote in a style similar to this :D

champayne
02-21-2011, 07:15 PM
I write drums like this, I find it's the easiest way to follow whats been written.
So it'd be nice if people wrote in a style similar to this :D

That's what I normally use, except the cymbals are lower, with the first one being the highest but I don't think the positioning matters as much.

edgespear
02-21-2011, 08:28 PM
Also just as a side note, if you're going to record these songs and you tab 40 as the snare, if you use ezdrummer or superior drummer for the drums, 40 is equal to a rim shot whereas 38 is the snare hit. I don't think 35 or 36 matters.

JazzDeath
02-22-2011, 01:05 AM
Frankibo's drum line is perfectly structured, just another note, the hi hat close (44) goes right above the bass drum, and I personally put the hi hat on the top line alongside with other cymbals, but generally that notation is spot on - cymbals top 2 lines, toms line 2 3 4 5, from highest tuned tom down to the lowest one, the bass drum is always on the bottom line.

In respect to other percussion effects they are generally also placed on the top lines alongside the cymbal parts, but if you have an extensive percussive line alongside a drum kit it is generally best to put a separate track for your percussion and another for your drumkit.

I personally prefer bass drum 36 over 35, I find 35 is not as punchy and a bit flatter, technically it's the same thing though, both are bass drums.

As for 40 or 38, if as edgespear says 40 is equivalent to a rimshot on a program like EzDrummer it may be best to stick to using 38 at all times, question of consistency in sound, perhaps afterwards if you are picky with drum sounds and accentuations as I am you might want to revise them on the actual program afterwards instead of on Guitar Pro.

JazzDeath
02-22-2011, 01:07 AM
Anyway personally I prefer working alongside other people instead of doing my own thing, since then it doesn't normally stick together as well with other people's stuff, since I'm well versed in rhythm parts I do enjoy writing a rhythm guitar part with drumming alongside it and bass and then submitting that section for someone to add orchestration or leads on top of it. This would work really well for me personally, and I enjoy working this way.

Rokkstar
02-22-2011, 09:02 AM
This sucks for me, because I write my drums upside down, and you're all going to have to deal with it, because I'm not changing. lol. This problem is your problem. <3 Loveya. But seriously though. lol. I'm sorry that I write my drums the way I do, I just do, okay? haha. But seriously though, it's not all that bad of a bad habit. :S Just something to deal with. I guess we decided on Neitdhshshehzheheheche to be our concept? :P

frankibo
02-22-2011, 10:09 AM
This sucks for me, because I write my drums upside down, and you're all going to have to deal with it, because I'm not changing. lol. This problem is your problem. <3 Loveya. But seriously though. lol. I'm sorry that I write my drums the way I do, I just do, okay? haha. But seriously though, it's not all that bad of a bad habit. :S Just something to deal with. I guess we decided on Neitdhshshehzheheheche to be our concept? :P

It's not to bad, I can sort of follow yours at least. Some people cram it all on the top few lines and it's impossible to read.
Yeah I guess we did.
Next step is to split the concept into distinct sections, one for each song. Seeing as there's of us, 8 sections, 8 songs?
Then we'll pick which section we want to start writing for, we'll begin the songs then share them for improvement.
Sound good?
Also we file sharing on here, or on skype or by email, or what?

JazzDeath
02-22-2011, 10:38 AM
I guess I'll deal with it, but honestly, your way is wrong. lol. And it is a bad habit, it's like if you wrote your tabs with your treble string on the bottom and your bass string on top, it seems unimportant to most people because they're "just drums"...

It's the same as my bad habit to writing guitar lines without considering finger placement and making guitarists rage because it's tabbed like shit :P

DiminishedFifth
02-22-2011, 11:27 AM
I don't see the point specifying a way to write drums. Drums are drums. I do thin it's be a good idea to specify snare and bass drums thoug. I personally use either snare and mainly the 36 bass drum (sometimes I use both if I want extra oomph).

frankibo
02-22-2011, 12:05 PM
I don't see the point specifying a way to write drums. Drums are drums. I do thin it's be a good idea to specify snare and bass drums thoug. I personally use either snare and mainly the 36 bass drum (sometimes I use both if I want extra oomph).

So I can read what people have written, so we can all read what each other had written. Imagine if there were more ways to tab, it'd get so confusing no-one would know what anything was.
And I think we're planning a live drum recording, so it doesn't really matter what snare and bass drum you use. Personally I always use 36 and 40, unless it's a softer section or a snare roll where I might use 38.
Also can people not use 55 all the time as a standard cymbal, splash cymbals are accent cymbals, not the sort of thing you ride on for a whole verse/chorus/breakdown etc, use the open hat 46 for a similar sound that a drummer would actually play.

champayne
02-22-2011, 12:12 PM
I remember using ezdrummer a while ago and my snares sounded fine, but I don't think switching to 38 for a bit would be too difficult for me.

It's not to bad, I can sort of follow yours at least. Some people cram it all on the top few lines and it's impossible to read.
Yeah I guess we did.
Next step is to split the concept into distinct sections, one for each song. Seeing as there's of us, 8 sections, 8 songs?
Then we'll pick which section we want to start writing for, we'll begin the songs then share them for improvement.
Sound good?
Also we file sharing on here, or on skype or by email, or what?


Someone mentioned dropbox, and I think that's a great idea. I'm setting it up.


Yep, it's perfect, I can invite people and share folders for collaborations. Anyone else think this is a good idea?

frankibo
02-22-2011, 01:23 PM
Someone mentioned dropbox, and I think that's a great idea. I'm setting it up.

I've never heard of dropbox. How does it work?

champayne
02-22-2011, 01:28 PM
I've never heard of dropbox. How does it work?

It's kind of like an online back-up tool. I have the folder on my computer, and it shows up online. I can share the folder with others and people can add files (add to songs). We get 2 gigs of space.

JazzDeath
02-22-2011, 05:02 PM
I mentioned it yeah, very useful for a project like this.

DiminishedFifth
02-22-2011, 05:34 PM
So I can read what people have written, so we can all read what each other had written. Imagine if there were more ways to tab, it'd get so confusing no-one would know what anything was.
And I think we're planning a live drum recording, so it doesn't really matter what snare and bass drum you use. Personally I always use 36 and 40, unless it's a softer section or a snare roll where I might use 38.

Alright I understand now. That makes sense. We need someone with Superior Drummer or EZ Drummer to figure out if there's a difference between the 38 and 40 snares once you import it.

Also can people not use 55 all the time as a standard cymbal, splash cymbals are accent cymbals, not the sort of thing you ride on for a whole verse/chorus/breakdown etc, use the open hat 46 for a similar sound that a drummer would actually play.
I use 46 a lot and get tired of it, so I'll use the splash for a bar or so. Never a whole section though. Same with all the crash's. Only non-high hat one I use for whole sections is the China, and even that is only every now and again.

champayne
02-22-2011, 08:38 PM
I mentioned it yeah, very useful for a project like this.

I set one up, but everyone will have to register and then I can invite you to the folder. So I think we're set, unless Rokkstar wants to set one up himself since it his thread, but it won't really matter.

So, should we get started?

edgespear
02-22-2011, 08:54 PM
Alright I understand now. That makes sense. We need someone with Superior Drummer or EZ Drummer to figure out if there's a difference between the 38 and 40 snares once you import it.


I use 46 a lot and get tired of it, so I'll use the splash for a bar or so. Never a whole section though. Same with all the crash's. Only non-high hat one I use for whole sections is the China, and even that is only every now and again.

I have Superior Drummer and i know 40 is a rim shot and 38 is a snare hit. Here is the piano roll for it:
http://i.picoodle.com/1eei15gv

DiminishedFifth
02-22-2011, 09:01 PM
I have Superior Drummer and i know 40 is a rim shot and 38 is a snare hit. Here is the piano roll for it:
http://i.picoodle.com/1eei15gv
Well, I guess that decides it then (for me).

38 and 35 it is. I do have to wonder though, is there a tone difference between 33 and 38?

Just made a dropbox.

champayne
02-22-2011, 09:05 PM
Just made a dropbox.

OK, once everyone registers, post your email. I will add you to the list of people that can edit the folder.

I guess I'll go change my snares to 38's, since it matters.

JazzDeath
02-22-2011, 11:20 PM
I have a dropbox, my email is olivierneron@videotron.ca


Oh and I'd like one of the originators of the idea for this to submit maybe something that represents what they're looking for conceptually, with all the tracks with the tunings on guitar that were decided upon, etc, before I start working on it, I'd like to have a clear goal and specific thought in mind to go forward with - I have plenty of ideas but without knowing what fits into this project, i'm already pretty sure it'll gravitate more towards prettier harmonies and chordal textures than I usually prefer in my own stuff but still, a guideline or an example would be nice for me, if not it might alienate what people expected from this if I submit some of my own ideas.

Rokkstar
02-23-2011, 12:34 AM
Put the Dropbox information in Skype only. No threads for (writing) individual songs. We'll communicate all of the ideas in Skype. I like the idea all of us start one song apiece and go from there. Let's do it. Skype it up. Next time they get the chance, password, and email on skype for the Dropbox account. :D

DiminishedFifth
02-23-2011, 12:49 AM
I have a dropbox, my email is olivierneron@videotron.ca


Oh and I'd like one of the originators of the idea for this to submit maybe something that represents what they're looking for conceptually, with all the tracks with the tunings on guitar that were decided upon, etc, before I start working on it, I'd like to have a clear goal and specific thought in mind to go forward with - I have plenty of ideas but without knowing what fits into this project, i'm already pretty sure it'll gravitate more towards prettier harmonies and chordal textures than I usually prefer in my own stuff but still, a guideline or an example would be nice for me, if not it might alienate what people expected from this if I submit some of my own ideas.
From my understanding the only things we actually decided on were how to write drums, the genre, and the concept (which has yet to be "fixed in place").

Tuning and anything else is up to the composer. As long as it fits within the genre.

frankibo
02-23-2011, 09:28 AM
From my understanding the only things we actually decided on were how to write drums, the genre, and the concept (which has yet to be "fixed in place").

Tuning and anything else is up to the composer. As long as it fits within the genre.

Exactly, although as we've said you can't put it in a tuning that no one can record. If you can do it and record it, that's fine, if not see if someone else can, if not, you can't do it.

Also I got drop box, my email is frankibo@hotmail.co.uk

Rokkstar
02-23-2011, 12:59 PM
Apparently I do not know how Dropbox works... You're giving out emails for it, is there some "show folders for email, _____." or something? Or do we have a Dropbox account for all the users (email/password) that we will all log onto? Or are we "importing" each others? I don't understand. Also, I'm willing to write in whatever tunings you guys can do, since, I won't be able to record instruments. But I prefer BAGDAD *sarcasm*.

EDIT: Oh, I get it now. My Dropbox email is dustin.daigle@live.com

JazzDeath
02-23-2011, 02:36 PM
I think the point is that if we don't work together on the songs or at least have a guiding light from song to song the album will not sound cohesive at all and it won't make sense as an entity, so it might be necessary to have someone start with the intro and to work gradually from one song to the other, so that we can link the songs effectively and perhaps plan out key changes beforehand, etc etc...

If not we'll just be composing songs left and right we consider "fitting of the genre" (which is very vague) and we'll just get 8 random songs that make no sense together.

frankibo
02-23-2011, 03:01 PM
I think the point is that if we don't work together on the songs or at least have a guiding light from song to song the album will not sound cohesive at all and it won't make sense as an entity, so it might be necessary to have someone start with the intro and to work gradually from one song to the other, so that we can link the songs effectively and perhaps plan out key changes beforehand, etc etc...

If not we'll just be composing songs left and right we consider "fitting of the genre" (which is very vague) and we'll just get 8 random songs that make no sense together.

So someone begin song 1 and we're work it through to completion before beginning song 2?
Makes sense to me!

champayne
02-23-2011, 03:43 PM
Apparently I do not know how Dropbox works... You're giving out emails for it, is there some "show folders for email, _____." or something? Or do we have a Dropbox account for all the users (email/password) that we will all log onto? Or are we "importing" each others? I don't understand. Also, I'm willing to write in whatever tunings you guys can do, since, I won't be able to record instruments. But I prefer BAGDAD *sarcasm*.

EDIT: Oh, I get it now. My Dropbox email is dustin.daigle@live.com

Yes, there is a feature for share folders for emails "". And are we still going with the "each person starts a song" plan?

BTW, added the 3 of you that posted an e-mail. Thanks!


EDIT: Also, I have a part written. I wrote it in C standard, but I made it Dropped-A# just for the sake of later possible djentiness. Not really sure if it would really be that good of an intro song though.


OH, and once we start writing parts, I suggest we make separate files instead of modifying the original file (like normal collabs, but in dropbox it's possible to edit the files and modify them as such). And I guess we'll call dibs on the forums, or we can have a file inside the folder that says so.

frankibo
02-23-2011, 04:52 PM
I think it'd be better if we worked on one song at a time.


Also I added a WIP folder so that any segments you think might be useful can be posted there so we can all check them out and find a place for them.
Submit your song part there? I'd like to hear it.

champayne
02-23-2011, 04:58 PM
I think it'd be better if we worked on one song at a time.


Also I added a WIP folder so that any segments you think might be useful can be posted there so we can all check them out and find a place for them.
Submit your song part there? I'd like to hear it.

Great idea! I put my song on there. Right-click - download.

frankibo
02-23-2011, 05:26 PM
Great idea! I put my song on there. Right-click - download.

I like it a lot, nice rhythm and very ambient as well with the synth and jazz gtr. Exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for, I'm sure that'll fit in nicely somewhere.

EDIT: Added a section. Not really too happy with it, I don't think it's worth keeping. Still gotta get used to a collab where people have to agree on what's added!

champayne
02-23-2011, 07:07 PM
I don't know, I liked it. I was kind of hoping for a complex djenty part after it :D. Anyone else got any opinions?

Anybody else want to start submitting? Maybe we can start in the WIP folder until we can figure out how to start it. Please join if you haven't and post your e-mail.

EDIT: I like your part Diminished, but why did you move the left guitar? Seems kind of strange.

JazzDeath
02-23-2011, 08:39 PM
I wrote a solo on top of b5's part. up to you if you want to keep it or not.

I think the riff is missing something though, probably continue a solo on top of the rest too

DiminishedFifth
02-23-2011, 09:17 PM
Haha I moved it so i could match the rhythm to the drums. I just forgot to move it back. I'll check out what was changed when i get home.

champayne
02-23-2011, 09:33 PM
I fixed the position of the tracks and I made the Jazz Guitar back to the original volume (it drowned out the rest of the song) and I made it volume 16 at Jazz's solo.

Mean Mr Mustard
02-23-2011, 10:12 PM
So are you guys going to post updates so the rest of us can hear it? It sounds interesting

Quibokk
02-24-2011, 02:47 AM
Just thought I'd let everyone know that I'm all up to date now - been busy for the past few days wrapping up with summer school, but am ready to focus on this now. ;)

All sorted with dropbox, so... well, guess I'll start on some WIPs of my own. Would find it easier to work in conjunction with someone, even on WIPs, but will see how I go.

frankibo
02-24-2011, 04:14 AM
Just thought I'd let everyone know that I'm all up to date now - been busy for the past few days wrapping up with summer school, but am ready to focus on this now. ;)

All sorted with dropbox, so... well, guess I'll start on some WIPs of my own. Would find it easier to work in conjunction with someone, even on WIPs, but will see how I go.

Put your WIP in the WIP folder we made in dropbox so we can all see what's going on and chip in!

Also I started a new naming system for the songs.
For the WIP's it's;

track_WIP(number)_(name of person who started the WIP_(version number)

For example;

track_WIP1_champayne_1
track_WIP1_champayne_2
track_WIP2_frankibo_1

Would be version 1 and version 2 of champayne's song and version 1 of my song.
Any new WIP would then be named;

track_WIP3_(username)_1

And we can just do the same thing for the proper songs as well;

track_1_(username)_1

Make sure you always add your name in a marker at the point where you add to a song and make sure you always save as a new version and don't overwrite the old one.

champayne
02-24-2011, 09:12 AM
So are you guys going to post updates so the rest of us can hear it? It sounds interesting

Eh, why not? Here's what we got so far. 3 parts and a clean jazz guitar solo from JazzDeath.

Rokkstar
02-24-2011, 12:06 PM
I don't know if we should post updates as in GP5 files, of course people are interested in hearing it, but I think it would be sicker to release like one song every two or three songs. I don't know, it makes it suspenseful, which I think is a cool beans thing to do. But it's a group decision. haha. Just less surprise to post up sections we've completed already. :(

JazzDeath
02-24-2011, 02:35 PM
Just a comment for Diminished Fifth I find the tail end of his riff (the last two measures) relatively uninspiring and melodically empty, so I was wondering if I could modify those for a transition or if he wanted to work on it himself

Also, secondly, I'd like to know if anyone objects to me reworking drum tracks throughout the piece, I think there's a lot of polish that could be done on that side

champayne
02-24-2011, 03:39 PM
I don't know if we should post updates as in GP5 files, of course people are interested in hearing it, but I think it would be sicker to release like one song every two or three songs. I don't know, it makes it suspenseful, which I think is a cool beans thing to do. But it's a group decision. haha. Just less surprise to post up sections we've completed already. :(

I know what you mean, but I don't think that much will hurt. This isn't even officially a track yet, but I wasn't planning on releasing too much.

DiminishedFifth
02-24-2011, 04:51 PM
Just a comment for Diminished Fifth I find the tail end of his riff (the last two measures) relatively uninspiring and melodically empty, so I was wondering if I could modify those for a transition or if he wanted to work on it himself

Also, secondly, I'd like to know if anyone objects to me reworking drum tracks throughout the piece, I think there's a lot of polish that could be done on that side
I don't care whatsoever. It's our track, so any changes y'all make are fine by me (as long as they SOUND good and what I wrote doesn't get lost. We all want our recognition, ya dig?).

I do have something to say... I'm not sure if I like how we're doing this. I like that we're all working on it, but as of right now it seems like it's just a big collab rather than a group of musicians coming together to make an album. I think that a good way to do it would be to, rather than put our names down in the sections, give them ACTUAL titles. Like "Verse I", "Pre-chorus" etc., and then once we put it in we can get everyones opinion on it and change what we think would be necessary... Like if we were an ACTUAL band.

What I think would be good as well is if we focused on melody as much as we are on rhythm. A theme for each song would be amazing, and, since it's supposed to be a concept album, an overall, overarching them that could be present in one way or another in each song would fit the "concept". Thoughts?

We also never picked a theme... I present "Space". Not anything specific, just... space. Whatever you want to take it as is up to you.

JazzDeath
02-24-2011, 05:11 PM
Well this is definitely the way I will be approaching it (as a big sort of "band project); I already think all the drums need polished and reworked, I saw a lead work on top of your riff so I added one...

I like polishing stuff and I'm very opinionated, and since this is a bit out of my regular genre I'll probably end up giving more ideas and feedback and working on drums and bass parts, adding leads or polish in some places, and giving ideas on structure, on how solid riffs are, and on general album direction.

frankibo
02-24-2011, 08:00 PM
I like polishing stuff and I'm very opinionated, and since this is a bit out of my regular genre I'll probably end up giving more ideas and feedback and working on drums and bass parts, adding leads or polish in some places, and giving ideas on structure, on how solid riffs are, and on general album direction.

This is just my opinion, so if everyone disagrees then ignore what I say, but sometimes I find your drum and basswork too complex and involved, it seems to clutter the songs at time. It's all very well written but not exactly how I like my drums written.
But nevertheless feel free to edit and we'll all see if we like the changes.

Quibokk
02-24-2011, 08:08 PM
I've just been wondering about the way we're currently doing this - everyone putting in on the same song. I personally think a better idea would be to split off into little... well, teams, if you will, and work within those on individual songs. What we've got so far is a bit saturated, and there doesn't seem to be any room for breathing, just section after section, just like the usual collabs on here, as previously mentioned.

I still think that everyone should be able to polish on anything and everything at the end of things, but I can't see this starting (or ending) well if all eight of us keep jamming stuff into one song after another. It's either saturated songs or a more inconsistent overall album feel (potentially) and I'd personally prefer the latter.

And I second DiminishedFifth's suggestion of a main theme for each song/the whole album.

frankibo
02-24-2011, 08:16 PM
I've just been wondering about the way we're currently doing this - everyone putting in on the same song. I personally think a better idea would be to split off into little... well, teams, if you will, and work within those on individual songs. What we've got so far is a bit saturated, and there doesn't seem to be any room for breathing, just section after section, just like the usual collabs on here, as previously mentioned.

I still think that everyone should be able to polish on anything and everything at the end of things, but I can't see this starting (or ending) well if all eight of us keep jamming stuff into one song after another. It's either saturated songs or a more inconsistent overall album feel (potentially) and I'd personally prefer the latter.

And I second DiminishedFifth's suggestion of a main theme for each song/the whole album.

I second your new proposal of teams and second the already seconded proposal, I think I thirded it maybe?

JazzDeath
02-24-2011, 09:49 PM
Yeah....

I tend to think that i make my drum and bass parts fit what I'm working with, I mean I've been a drummer in many different bands before and it generally is written to fit the genre, I won't start putting blastbeats everywhere into these songs and adding intense fills to everyone's parts... I just meant like, some snare placements seem random to me and would sound better if they properly accentuated certain time signatures, some people always use one cymbal and don't accentuate at all and it makes the drums lifeless and dull, etc...

I wouldn't change the drums on your WIP 3 for example, at all, there's your style to it and it's very efficient and interesting, I wouldn't dream of changing that, but for example, the drums on the other piece could use some serious work.

champayne
02-24-2011, 10:15 PM
Shouldn't we fix the drums?

RedDeath9
02-26-2011, 05:54 AM
I'm interested in joining this, but it all seems a little disorganized. The suggestion of teams seems like a very good one right about now.

Hmm... So... I haven't been too active in this forum lately... But my latest completed songs are in my sig. Am I good enough? :p:

frankibo
02-26-2011, 07:50 AM
I'm interested in joining this, but it all seems a little disorganized. The suggestion of teams seems like a very good one right about now.

Hmm... So... I haven't been too active in this forum lately... But my latest completed songs are in my sig. Am I good enough? :p:

You're a little in wanting to join, we've been working for a week.

champayne
02-26-2011, 02:00 PM
How will the teams be organized? Will it be by which genre we write in? Random? Or maybe one team writes out the riffs and another team helps with the transitions and polishes it to perfection?

Also, has anyone seen Wquennasar anywhere? He seems to have disappeared with a trace.

Wquennasar
02-26-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm around, just waiting for things to get finalized

RedDeath9
02-26-2011, 04:00 PM
You're a little in wanting to join, we've been working for a week.

Also, has anyone seen Wquennasar anywhere? He seems to have disappeared with a trace.

Ah, has the work been so rough that your language skills have been afflicted? :p:

And I'll wait for the opinions of others, too.

frankibo
02-26-2011, 06:01 PM
Ah, has the work been so rough that your language skills have been afflicted? :p:

And I'll wait for the opinions of others, too.

Haha yeah a little late, and that's fair enough.

champayne
02-26-2011, 06:28 PM
Ah, has the work been so rough that your language skills have been afflicted? :p:

And I'll wait for the opinions of others, too.

No... I'm always like that. I'm like a dyslexic grammar nazi :(.

Quibokk
02-27-2011, 11:10 PM
How will the teams be organized? Will it be by which genre we write in? Random? Or maybe one team writes out the riffs and another team helps with the transitions and polishes it to perfection?

Well, imo it would be best to have people that work well together, and generally that happens when their writing... tastes are similar. Not sure how we'd balance that out, though, and people like Jazz have already said that they prefer being supplements to others.

In any case, I don't think randomly selected teams would be a good idea - there needs to be reasoning behind them, otherwise there will be disagreements.

I need everyone else to pitch in their opinion, though - this won't be happening if not everyone agrees with the idea. It has been a week, though, and not much organisation has gone beyond the premise of the idea and a few WIPs - doing this could help get things rolling.

AngrySockMonkey
02-28-2011, 07:18 PM
Is this still open? If so I'm interested.

JazzDeath
02-28-2011, 09:01 PM
Let me put it this way, rather bluntly since I was away for a while and i decided to watch development for a few days...

if it keeps going this way I'm out, basically.

Frankibo has composed half a song on his own, and has stated several times that he's kind of sketchy about me being part of this, doesn't want me to do too many modifications to anything, so that being said, I imagine he wants the rest of the people involved to not modify his stuff too much, and he's already written half a song's worth of material.

We have three songs composed with no forethought of how they fit together stylistically or what their direction is, where they're going as a song and as an album whole, who's working on what with who and whether we can make changes or not...

This is disorganised as all shit, make it more sensible and I'll keep working on it,but right now I might as well just compose a song on my own and submit it here after, and honestly, I don't see the point of the way this is working, the one where several people worked on it has no blueprint, no forethought, and the direction is vague, the other two are singular efforts and don't show much of a bigger picture.

I'd volunteer on getting it organised but honestly my style is not really what anyone else here wants, so I kind of signed up as some help and perhaps to give some fresh unusual ideas that still fit within the genre, not to organize the entire thing, I'm not the visionary here

champayne
02-28-2011, 10:30 PM
I honestly don't like where this is going. We have some good ideas for riffs, but the songs themselves aren't to great. I don't see any bad riffs, I like all of them, but there is absolutely no flow. I've seen better random collaborations. They really need some polish. This has been kind of a disappointment so far.

guitar_jew
02-28-2011, 11:49 PM
Been busy with personal circumstances since Wednesday. I've popped in to observe discussion, and in all seriousness I have to agree with champayne and JD. We need to set everything in stone.

I'll try to get on Skype more frequently.

frankibo
03-01-2011, 04:27 AM
Frankibo has composed half a song on his own, and has stated several times that he's kind of sketchy about me being part of this, doesn't want me to do too many modifications to anything, so that being said, I imagine he wants the rest of the people involved to not modify his stuff too much, and he's already written half a song's worth of material.

Not true at all. I got bored of it being dead so I added to my own song (WIP2) just to do something to kill time. No one else really seemed to like it anyway. The other song is a collaboration.
And I have no problems with your writing skills, I think you write great stuff, I was just unsure how your music fitted genre wise. But everyone wanted you in and that's cool, so you should be editing stuff, I just didn't want you going through and rewriting all my drum parts.
Otherwise I'm more then happy for you or anyone to modify the songs I've worked on.
Don't make me look like a giant twat, I've been talking to people of skype and trying to work this out with everyone and people have been modifying my work and that was great, we were sharing files and changing stuff over skype the other day. So don't say I'm not letting people make changes because that's just not true.

Also why are people complaining that the WIP's don't fit together or have musical direction? They were just random bits of songs so we could experiment with writing together and see how things went, they're not intended to be part of the proper album.

It'd be a good start if some people actually got involved in the process of sorting things out, there's a few regulars who are always online and we try to talk despite time zone problems but some others don't even seem to be coming on so they can't really complain if they're not happy about things.

All we need to do is split the concept into a few ideas and then break in to terms and try to focus on writing.
But if you can't be bothered or don't like the direction or anything then you leave now because I'd rather work with 3 people who want to be involved then 7 who don't.

frankibo
03-01-2011, 04:29 AM
This is disorganised as all shit, make it more sensible and I'll keep working on it,but right now I might as well just compose a song on my own and submit it here after, and honestly, I don't see the point of the way this is working, the one where several people worked on it has no blueprint, no forethought, and the direction is vague, the other two are singular efforts and don't show much of a bigger picture.

What singular efforts are you on about? WIP1, 3 and 4 are all collaborations, only 2 isn't, that's just me.

JazzDeath
03-01-2011, 04:38 PM
I'm not trying to make you look like a giant twat, I'm trying to give you some insight on the way I see things, it may be totally wrong but I think it's important to say something so that we can clarify in this way.

And cool if WIP 3 is a joint effort, it's just that there are no markers writing who wrote what on it and there's no information about it anywhere but on skype I imagine where you guys discussed it, so I'm in the dark about it and so is anyone else who doesn't already know what's going on with it... we need to keep tabs of what's going on, perhaps for each piece we could write in a notepad who's worked on what, the concept and theme of a song, its direction, and which song it will be on the album, so that everyone can have an opinion and know what the piece represents and where it goes, who worked on it, etc etc etc...

I don't know if you understand where I'm going with this, it all comes back to the fact that the organisation of the entire thing seems disjointed and I'm not really sure what the **** is going on at the moment, and I imagine I'm not the only one.

Look I'm not on much at the moment I have 2 band I'm in and one that we jam twice a week and the other 3 times a week, and because my jamspace is at a distance I actually sleep there often and I'm home about 2-3 days a week now with internet so I'm rarely capable of being around, so I can't be around all the time on Skype and I cannot be part of this if it's not organised in a way where I can work on it efficiently on my own, as in not having to check with someone else on skype every time I have an idea or want to rework something, you know what I mean?

We should set up 3 different groups to work on different songs (groups of people that work well together) and then work on transitions between the pieces, or just arrange them afterwards in the end and not worry about songs linking to each other - either way, we need to decide what we're doing and stick with it.

And like, some shit should be written down clearly in the dropbox and in a notepad, and not scattered around in this post uncertainly, such as -

Forum-Wide Album Collaboration;

Concept - The Ubermensch Philosophy (Read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cbermensch)
Groups - *write groups here once they are decided, from 1 to 3/4)

Songs -
WIP 1 - Group 1 - Concept - (insert song theme here)
WIP 2 - Group 2, etc etc
WIP 3 - Group 3, etc etc
etc.

Notes on each song should be assigned to a notepad for each individual song so that people composing it can leave information or guidelines or things to do, to change, not to change, within this file, without having to directly communicate with their teammates or someone else this is always accessible, and if there are further issues or concerns you can then communicate directly with the person.

Btw I got skype, my skype name is jazz_death

JazzDeath
03-01-2011, 04:44 PM
Let me add a final note as a TL:DR;

I don't have an issue with the compositions, or what's being worked on at the moment, or any of the people working on it, it just needs clarification all around so that everyone can know what's going on, and better organisation!

frankibo
03-01-2011, 08:15 PM
Let me add a final note as a TL:DR;

I don't have an issue with the compositions, or what's being worked on at the moment, or any of the people working on it, it just needs clarification all around so that everyone can know what's going on, and better organisation!

That's fair enough, it just felt like an unjustified personal tirade.
If someone wants to organise groups and what not that would be excellent.

RedDeath9
03-04-2011, 02:31 AM
So, have you guys been discussing this on Skype? It's an ambitious project, but I'd like to see something happen with it.

Since the project hasn't really moved along that much, I still consider myself eligible to join. Yet, no one but frankibo has given their opinion :mad: Tell me, can I join or not?!

Majin Gaara
03-09-2011, 07:26 AM
I would also like to know if I can partake in this.


I have multitudes of compositions to show if needed.

champayne
03-09-2011, 12:45 PM
So, have you guys been discussing this on Skype? It's an ambitious project, but I'd like to see something happen with it.

Since the project hasn't really moved along that much, I still consider myself eligible to join. Yet, no one but frankibo has given their opinion :mad: Tell me, can I join or not?!

I think a while ago we decided that we had enough writers, but I'd vouch for your work. I would ask Rokkstar, since he's organizing this. I'm going to work on the WIP's today when I get home, I'm kind of tired of this lack of progress.

frankibo
03-09-2011, 01:24 PM
I think a while ago we decided that we had enough writers, but I'd vouch for your work. I would ask Rokkstar, since he's organizing this. I'm going to work on the WIP's today when I get home, I'm kind of tired of this lack of progress.

I've been so busy lately with uni, I just haven't had time to work on the WIP's or sit around on skype til everyone comes on which is quite late for me. So it'd be nice to see some progress made.
This is gonna be mostly down to the guys in the US, I can only really chip in when I have the time.

RedDeath9
03-09-2011, 05:57 PM
Has anyone talked to Rokkstar since Feb 26th? That's the date of his last post.

I'm PMing him right now. If he doesn't respond within a day or two... Then we'll begin again with a new thread. We can keep what we already have though.

The next course of action would be deciding on a "leader" or organizer. I think it's best to assume Rokkstar has jumped ship, so we should decide on an organizer right now.

If anyone is willing to be the organizer, say so now. And before anyone says that we don't need one... I think it's quite obvious that we do, considering what's happened to this thread in the last few days. SOMEONE has to take control and keep momentum going...

If no one is willing to lead, I'll do it.

frankibo
03-09-2011, 07:48 PM
If no one is willing to lead, I'll do it.

If you can demonstrate that you can break down the concept into distinct sections as themes for each song then you can lead.

And I want to be in but as I said due to the time difference and with uni I can only really chip in on the GP files, I can't be part of the mass organisation over skype.

DiminishedFifth
03-09-2011, 08:26 PM
Id' be fine with you being leader. Last thing I lead went downhill after a little bit :haha:

Quibokk
03-10-2011, 01:55 AM
I'm still keen to see this go ahead, but am not keen to step up for leading. Similar to frankibo, I have uni and a time difference to work against, but I'll still have the time to write. I'm able to catch DiminishedFifth online at least on Skype, so am not completely isolated.

RedDeath9
03-13-2011, 06:12 AM
If you can demonstrate that you can break down the concept into distinct sections as themes for each song then you can lead.

And I want to be in but as I said due to the time difference and with uni I can only really chip in on the GP files, I can't be part of the mass organisation over skype.

The concept of Ubermensch... Might be a bit difficult to write about, since it's so open to interpretation... But maybe you guys don't really care what the concept is, so long as some of the individual ideas are appealing? I'm thinking of making it a story-based concept album... Perhaps about a man's journey to find meaning (to become Übermensch) after being disillusioned with Christianty (Nietzsche himself attacked Christianity in a few of his late works). Essentially, it'd become an album about existentialism/absurdism with lots of Nietzschean references.

I'd rather write a story because... the Ubermensch is a pretty Romantic/idealistic notion, and I'd find it difficult to write an entire album based on such notions. It just isn't realistic. But maybe that was the point; by being such an idealistic concept, the Ubermensch becomes an unattainable end.

There are also some awesome potential lyrics in that excerpt you posted, frankibo.

I think we'll be able to come up with the individual song ideas easily. For instance, the first song might be about disillusionment with Christianity, while the middle of the album would describe the person's existential journey (sounds so corny), while also outlining some concepts like Eternal Recurrence, the Ubermensch, Will to Power, Perspectivism, etc. Explaining nihilism, absurdism and existentialism is a given.

That's just a very rough sketch. I find the thought of eternal recurrence particularly interesting... Even if it isn't possible.

What do you guys think? Story-based concept about a man's struggle with the meaningless of existence?

While I wait for approval, I'll start gathering quotes which explain Nietzsche's philosophy - at least, my incomplete interpretation of it.

I'm still keen to see this go ahead, but am not keen to step up for leading. Similar to frankibo, I have uni and a time difference to work against, but I'll still have the time to write. I'm able to catch DiminishedFifth online at least on Skype, so am not completely isolated.

Aye, I'd probably be able to catch both you and Diminished online, but I have uni as well... and several exams coming up.

Btw, my skype username is jatinder-gill.

guitar_jew
03-13-2011, 02:06 PM
RELEVANT RAMBLINGS ABOUT NIETZSCHE AND THE OVERMAN

The overman is to man as man is to ape. Mankind is a bridge between ape and overman. The overman is the entity that will overcome all that is weak in us- our fears, insecurities, our dependence on each other. Nietzsche believed that weakness is at its base a lack of independence- the need to live our lives for and by the codes of others rather than ourselves.

Nietzsche postulated the overman as a response to the 'death of God.' Nietzsche observed the culture around him (late 19th century Germany, and Europe as a whole), and concluded that few people derived legitimate spiritual consolation from their religion, and that life had become meaningless in any supernatural sense. Therefore, it had become man's job to create his own meaning for the earth. The overman was to be the new meaning of the earth, the person that lives only for the purpose of enjoying his/her life.

Beginning in Part Three of Thus Spoke Zarathustra, Nietzsche begins to speak of the 'eternal recurrence.' Basically, this idea suggests that if time is infinite and the amount of matter in the universe is limited, that ultimately, every state of matter will repeat itself. This thought, when applied to ourselves, means that our lives, too, will occur infinitely. Nietzsche then attributed another aspect to the overman- the ability to not only accept the eternal recurrence, but to love it, to be made completely happy by the thought that one's life would happen over and over again. This love of recurrence is called amor fati, which translates from Latin as 'love of fate.'

What do you guys think? Story-based concept about a man's struggle with the meaningless of existence?

I do think it's important to understand that Nietzsche was not an advocate of nihilism; he saw nothing more detrimental to the human spirit. He wrote that universally, things are meaningless, and so it is each individual's job to create their own, individual meanings. The struggle itself could provide the conflict of the narrative aspect, but if we want to present an essentially Nietzschean point of view, the resolution of said conflict would have to be the protagonist's creation of his/her own meaning for life.

DiminishedFifth
03-13-2011, 02:15 PM
Hmm... I'm gonna have to do some research on Nietzschean philosophy then. I've never actually read anything of, by, or about him. Sounds like a good read.

RedDeath9
03-13-2011, 05:23 PM
I do think it's important to understand that Nietzsche was not an advocate of nihilism; he saw nothing more detrimental to the human spirit. He wrote that universally, things are meaningless, and so it is each individual's job to create their own, individual meanings. The struggle itself could provide the conflict of the narrative aspect, but if we want to present an essentially Nietzschean point of view, the resolution of said conflict would have to be the protagonist's creation of his/her own meaning for life.

Oh, yes, what I meant was that there'd be a struggle against nihilism at some point, brought on by his rejection of external value systems. And yes, in the end, he would create his own meaning for life, thus becoming Ubermensch - or, starting on the road to becoming Ubermensch.

frankibo
03-13-2011, 06:06 PM
You guys sound like you are sorting it out which is awesome, and I'm cool for you to lead the group now.

RedDeath9
03-13-2011, 07:11 PM
Ah, okay :)

So, I'm thinking first, we'll use this thread to discuss the concept and get a general idea of the album structure. Once we finish with that, I'll start a new thread.

Ah, there's also been the suggestion of groups... Personally, I think that'd be much more efficient. Depending on how many total people there are participating, I'm thinking we could get 2-3 people working on each song. The only problem I can foresee is that... a certain team might produce a song of a style completely different from another team's... If the styles diverge too much, it'll leave the album disjointed. So to counter this, we'd have to have at least SOME cross-group communication.

My dropbox email is jatinder_91617@hotmail.com ... does someone have to invite me or something?

We also need to keep track of who's still in this.

frankibo - interested
DiminishedFifth - interested (btw, did anyone notice the typo in Rokkstar's first post? I accidentally sent a PM to DiminishedFaith... whoever that is...)
Quibokk - interested
guitar_jew - interested
Majin Gaara - I'm letting him participate. If we split the people up into groups, the numbers won't be such a problem.
JazzDeath - I'd assume he's still interested, but he hasn't posted or responded to my PM. His last post was on March 8th, and it was IN this section of the forum... So we'll see...
Wquennasar - his last post stated that he was "waiting for things to be finalized," so I've PMed him again.
champayne - from what we last heard, he was going to work on the WIPs, and he was tired of the lack of progress. No confirmation that he's still participating, so I've PMed him.
Rokkstar - Didn't respond to my PM, hasn't posted in this thread since the beginning of page 4, actually hasn't posted since Feb 26th, so I assume he's too busy/out.

I've added you all on skype, btw. At least, I've added those who've posted their usernames.

I'll be posting a rough song outline for the album later tonight, or tomorrow...

guitar_jew
03-14-2011, 01:49 AM
Hmm... I'm gonna have to do some research on Nietzschean philosophy then. I've never actually read anything of, by, or about him. Sounds like a good read.

Thus Spoke Zarathustra is his most popular book, and while most of his works don't say much about the same things, it is also considered his essential work. If you're going to read anything by him, Zarathustra is the one to read.

I hope I don't come off as too condescending, but from what I've gathered from the discussion, I appear to be the most well-read. Even so, I'm not THAT much of an expert on the man- I've only read two of his books and his Wikipedia article. But if that is the case, I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has.

JazzDeath
03-14-2011, 02:43 AM
I din't get no PM.

As I said if you assign me to a team and make it organized I'm in, I'm only home 2 days out of 7 in a week now considering I sleep at my jamspace the rest of the time and I have no internet there, so I cannot communicate every day and I can't always be on, but I can work on it and post updates every 3-4 days.

Wquennasar
03-14-2011, 11:10 AM
Pretty much the same as JD for me. I'm gonna be really busy this month but I'll post updates if assigned to a group and it's organized etc.

champayne
03-14-2011, 06:30 PM
I'm participating, didn't check my P.M. sorry for that. I've been busy lately. I'll check back more often.

RedDeath9
03-14-2011, 11:08 PM
I din't get no PM.

Really? It says in my folder that I've sent a PM to you... Like, it's right there in the "Sent" folder, with your display picture beside it... That's odd. Oh well! I'm just worried that others might not have gotten PMs either...

Also, can one of you invite me to that Dropbox thing? I already have an email for it. jatinder_91617@hotmail.com Or is it only Rokkstar who can invite me?

guitar_jew, I'll need your help in making the general tracklisting/album outline... I don't want to stray too far from the Nietzschean theme... Actually, anyone can help with this part. So far, I've got:

Intro: The Death of God (Beginning of existential crisis)
-. Sleep
-. Eternal Recurrence
Outro: The Ubermensch (Resolution, end of crisis)

These are the four ideas that I know I want to be in there. Obviously, though, we need more.

Also, I believe Nietzsche remarked on Eternal Recurrence as a question, rather than a fact. The question being, if this universe DOES recur infinitely, would you be happy living this same life over and over? Here's a quote from The Gay Science:

"What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more' ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.'"

But anyways, guitar jew already said it better than I did.

Sleep would be a kind of pensive song... Okay, maybe pensive isn't the right word. It would depict a man lying in bed, having obsessive thoughts about death and nothingness. Just an idea. It might seem kind of cliché, but that same situation is where I experienced... the full impact of futility. So really, it's the only kind of scenario I can conjure up. Also, I think the fact that it's right before sleep kind of fits...

So, let's add to the tracklisting ideas.

Intro: The Death of God (Beginning of existential crisis)
-. Sleep
-. Eternal Recurrence
Outro: The Ubermensch (Resolution, end of crisis)

Sometime soon, I'll seriously think about how to split up the groups. It seems to be a matter of both the individual's style, and their openness to edits from other people.

Ah, and glad to see you two back with us^ :cheers:

EDIT: Thanks for the invite, Frank :)

frankibo
03-15-2011, 04:26 AM
I'm liking where this is going. As much as I find the concept interesting I'm not well versed on it at all so I'll let you sort that side out haha.

champayne
03-15-2011, 08:11 AM
Yeah, you guys can take care of the concept, I'll invite you when I get home, I guess I'm kind of in charge of the DropBox business. Can't wait to get this started again.

guitar_jew
03-15-2011, 11:51 AM
Also, I believe Nietzsche remarked on Eternal Recurrence as a question, rather than a fact.

The idea is developed MUCH more thoroughly throughout the second half of Zarathustra, and provides the conflict for that part of the narrative. The idea dawns on the prophet Zarathustra, and he is nauseated by the thought that the lives of the weak, small men that the overman is to overcome will recur forever. This nausea is what provokes the drama in the third part of the novel.

Based on this, one song could, theoretically, illustrate our protagonist's nausea at a similar thought.

frankibo
03-15-2011, 01:18 PM
The idea is developed MUCH more thoroughly throughout the second half of Zarathustra, and provides the conflict for that part of the narrative. The idea dawns on the prophet Zarathustra, and he is nauseated by the thought that the lives of the weak, small men that the overman is to overcome will recur forever. This nausea is what provokes the drama in the third part of the novel.

Based on this, one song could, theoretically, illustrate our protagonist's nausea at a similar thought.

Idea
Nausea
Drama

There's three songs there already. Obviously give them cooler names but idea can be more atmospheric, nausea can be very odd and drama can be more heavy. Or something, you get the idea.

RedDeath9
03-16-2011, 12:58 AM
The idea dawns on the prophet Zarathustra, and he is nauseated by the thought that the lives of the weak, small men that the overman is to overcome will recur forever.

Why is he nauseated? Does he feel disgust or pity towards them? Hmm, actually, I have a copy of Thus Spake Zarathustra on my iPhone, hopefully I can get to reading it soon... Because I can't know of this "drama in the third part" you speak of :p: Additionally, I'm not sure that our protagonist would feel nausea at the thought, since he may very well be one of those "weak, small men."

Though, I'm very tired today, so I might be missing some important connections. You know what, I'm going to read the wiki on TSZ. That may help a bit.

Also^, I like that, but I'm not sure that each idea would be able to constitute an entire song (maybe they would; I haven't read the novel). Maybe they could just make up a three-part song?

On the topic of groups, I forgot to consider TIME ZONES. Obviously those in similar time zones should be kept together... Unless some of you are awake at ungodly hours. *looks up everyone's user profile* Alright, all but two of us are in North America... Quibokk is in NZ, frankibo in the UK... Wow. We can't even lump frank and Quibokk into their own group :p: Mmm, I'll think about it some more, but for now, I need sleep.

DiminishedFifth
03-16-2011, 01:10 AM
On the topic of groups, I forgot to consider TIME ZONES. Obviously those in similar time zones should be kept together... Unless some of you are awake at ungodly hours. *looks up everyone's user profile* Alright, all but two of us are in North America... Quibokk is in NZ, frankibo in the UK... Wow. We can't even lump frank and Quibokk into their own group :p: Mmm, I'll think about it some more, but for now, I need sleep.
My profile will say Italy... I'm actually in the US xD CST, to be specific.

frankibo
03-16-2011, 08:20 AM
Split the group's in another way, for example more down to the compatibility of music we right or something. Then me and quibokk can just join in when we can. I finish uni in a week and a half and although I have revision to do I'll be up late most nights which will be like 6ish for most of you guys in the US so I can join some skype conversations.

RedDeath9
03-19-2011, 06:38 AM
I've been busy with exams and formal reports, which is why I haven't contributed for two days... Also, I've gotten literally five hours of sleep in the last two days, which is why I'm not feeling too motivated right now.

But I ended listening to a bunch of everyone's GP files anyway. This is tough. We've got:

RedDeath9
guitar_jew
JazzDeath
frankibo
DiminishedFifth
Quibokk
Rokkstar (he responded to my PM)
Wquennasar
champayne
and possibly Majin Gaara, if he ever let's me know whether or not he's still interested.

We definitely don't want to be working on more than two or three songs at once. If Majin Gaara doesn't participate, then we've got an even (or odd? :confused: ) three per group. I'm confused as to how I should do this. Splitting up by style won't work, or else we'll have discontinuity between songs... For instance, if I put the post-hardcore people in one group, the death/fusion people in one, and the... melodic death people in another, then we'll end up having three distinct styles on the album... And there won't be any real flow. Of course, I realize not everyone participating can be lumped into those three groups :p: I was just using examples.

Does anybody have a PREFERENCE of who they'd like to work with?

JazzDeath
03-21-2011, 11:25 AM
I'd like to work with Champayne, RedDeath. guitar_jew perhaps. I'm not sure if they're interested in working with me, but considering my assessment on personalities I think they are the people I would have the least issues working with; I disregard genre entirely, I like both their work and I think they both have great ideas.

I think it's important to focus on finding groups that work well together over people that compose in similar fashion - I find that when you collaborate with people it often works best when personalities and mindsets mesh together, moreso than musical genres and approach. I mean if no one can agree on anything it becomes troublesome.

DiminishedFifth
03-21-2011, 01:15 PM
I have no preference as to whom I work with. I can adapt pretty easily :)

frankibo
03-21-2011, 02:16 PM
I have no preference as to whom I work with. I can adapt pretty easily :)

Same really.
If I had to pick I'd go with DiminishedFifth and Rokkstar. Don't know if they'd want to work with me or not but I'm just throwing it out there!
If we can get the groups and concepts decided we can begin and then I think we'd actually pick up some pace!

champayne
03-21-2011, 02:39 PM
I'd like to work with Champayne, RedDeath. guitar_jew perhaps. I'm not sure if they're interested in working with me, but considering my assessment on personalities I think they are the people I would have the least issues working with; I disregard genre entirely, I like both their work and I think they both have great ideas.

I think it's important to focus on finding groups that work well together over people that compose in similar fashion - I find that when you collaborate with people it often works best when personalities and mindsets mesh together, moreso than musical genres and approach. I mean if no one can agree on anything it becomes troublesome.

Sure, I can work with anyone. I don't really have a genre preference and I don't mind if my ideas are modified/removed.

Wquennasar
03-22-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm gonna have to pull out of this. Best of luck to everyone.

champayne
03-22-2011, 09:25 PM
I'm gonna have to pull out of this. Best of luck to everyone.

:confused:
:sad:

RedDeath9
03-23-2011, 07:48 AM
Aw, sorry you had to pull out Wquennasar :( If there are some extraneous circumstances or something causing you stress, then I hope everything goes alright with you.

The suggestions for groups so far have been good... They coincide with my initial thoughts. I actually had no idea where to place champayne, Wquennasar, and Quibokk. By the way, I feel like having 4 per group will become a little much... Too many ideas at once. And 2 per group may not be productive enough. So let's make some rough teams, see how they look?

...

This is harder than I expected... How do we balance a group of two? I feel like there might be friction within such a group... Hmm... Maybe put two together whom we know will work well together?...

...

Group A:
RedDeath9
JazzDeath
champayne
Group B:
frankibo
Rokkstar
Group C:
Quibokk
guitar_jew
DiminishedFifth

If we can get everyone to cooperate, I think that would work. It'd be interesting to hear what Group C could come up with. I'm just worried about whether or not frankibo and Rokkstar will get along - whether or not they're okay with others editing their work.

What do you all think? We can always change these up, so long as we haven't started writing... Though that phase may start very soon...

frankibo
03-23-2011, 09:13 AM
I am absolutely cool with that.
I think all the groups seem good.
Regarding me and Rokkstar, I have no problem with my work being edited and I think we'll get along fine, I've commented on nearly every song he's put up so I think we know how the other works. I also think we might produce some interesting stuff seeing as he is much more of a progressive writer than me and I'm much more of a post hardcore writer. Anyway yeah that works for me. Get the concepts down and I'm good to go!

Quibokk
03-23-2011, 10:13 PM
I'm fine with my group, provided the communication is solid between us - I would consider that more of an issue than anything. I'm happy with people modifying my stuff, got no probs there.

guitar_jew
03-24-2011, 05:46 PM
Yep. I'm good with my group.

RedDeath9
03-27-2011, 05:06 PM
Intro: The Death of God
2. The Birth of a Universe
3. Causality
4. Disevolution
5. King of Nothing
-. Sleep
-. Eternal Recurrence
Outro: The Ubermensch

The Death of God - the narrator's rejection of the Christian God and all other gods. Probably going to be a pretty cynical song, lyrics similar to Nevermore? If there even are lyrics.

The Birth of a Universe - pondering what came before the universe... The circumstances of its birth. Probably gonna need more here.

Causality - The universe began, and a chain of cause and effect was set into motion... Every movement of every atom was caused by a previous event, and the atom's movement will cause a later event... Is the narrator simply part of the chain?

Disevolution - Exploring the idea of human consciousness, and how the belief in God may be a "defense mechanism" against the meaningless of the universe. The human brain has evolved so far as to be aware of the futility of living. This can have negative repercussions on one's psyche. Hence, disevolution.

King of Nothing - After rejecting God as the creator and "king" of the universe, the narrator realizes that he himself is the sole creator and king of the universe. But he finds himself king of an empty and barren land... He exclaims one thing: I never wanted to be human. (These are actually Agalloch lyrics, but they explain the feeling so well) This might be the highest (or lowest) point of the crisis?

Sleep - Laying in bed pondering death, the dreamless sleep.. The nothingness which precedes and succeeds our lives... Surrounded by an infinite amount of nothing, don't our lives become infinitesimal? Here, the narrator brushes with the void, recoils, and despairs at the fact that there is no god.

Eternal Recurrence - Perhaps he thinks about the death of the universe, and wonders whether or not the universe will collapse unto itself, and start anew... And if it did start anew, would it occur exactly as it did before? I dunno, we've yet to finalize this idea... or any of them really. But we definitely need more here.

The Ubermensch - Essentially the end of his crisis, or his resolution to become what is defined by the "Ubermensch." I believe the Ubermensch was defined as a goal, anyways, not an actual state of being. This song outlines the beginning of the journey towards that goal. Or maybe the journey IS the goal? To just make that resolution to better oneself, to be happy... Anyways, yeah.

At some point in the album, all of these conflicts have to be solved, right?

He has to accept the illusion of free will (as outlined by the "Causality" song).
He has to accept and love eternal recurrence, or at least be aware that he'd be happy if it this universe did eternally recur (since he really has no way of proving whether or not it'll actually recur infinitely).
He has to create meaning for his life.
And so on...

By the way, these are all just working titles. Also, if you have any ideas, please share!

JazzDeath
03-27-2011, 05:11 PM
I really like the effort and work you're putting into this, +1 for the concept and the songs, really well thought out and this is very, very professional of you. I appreciate it a lot, just to let you know.

I think the last piece should employ themes from each of the previous songs, perhaps modified or in a different key/rhytmic, so we could all sort of work on that piece as an effective conclusion to the concept.

I also think the Sleep part should be minimalistic, perhaps more of a contemplating, brooding atmosphere, to reflect the title and philosophy of the piece itself.

The first two sound like the most progressive-minded pieces, certainly the second one, where each section develops from an idea taking from the previous theme in the piece, since it would really reflect the character of it.

Just my thoughts on this.

JazzDeath
03-27-2011, 05:29 PM
I posted a track that might have some interesting ideas for either the first or second piece, in my opinion ; check your dropboxes.

Of course I'll be working with my group but if you guys can check it and approve or reject the difficulty of the piece and theme of it in case my group wants to work on progressing it, that would be cool =D

guitar_jew
03-27-2011, 07:24 PM
After rejecting God as the creator and "king" of the universe, the narrator realizes that he himself is the sole creator and king of the universe.

I think it's important to intervene on this point. Nietzsche might agree with a slight change to the sentence: "The narrator realizes that he himself is the sole creator and king of his universe." That lends itself to a borderline solipsistic view, which I'd be a bit uncomfortable with. I agree with perspectivism to an extent, but to deny the existence of an objective reality is absurd. The Nietzschean view (on my understanding) would be that there is an objective reality, that is perceived subjectively by us.

The claim to be king of the universe is very unnerving, too. I'm all for Nietzschean self-esteem, but there's a fine line between egoism (I advocate) and being a sociopath (I don't advocate).

Causality - The universe began, and a chain of cause and effect was set into motion... Every movement of every atom was caused by a previous event, and the atom's movement will cause a later event... Is the narrator simply part of the chain?

Ah, determinism. From this view, Nietzsche, and others, concluded that there is no such thing as 'free will.' This realization of our enslavement to this world, IMO, ought to sound... scary? for lack of a better word. I lost sleep when that thought came into my mind.

My personal opinion is that it would be more realistic to end the conflict on the journey to overman, rather than actually becoming overman.

Sorry this is so disorganized. I'm a disorganized kind of guy.

Lastly...

I also think the Sleep part should be minimalistic, perhaps more of a contemplating, brooding atmosphere, to reflect the title and philosophy of the piece itself.

I have something, maybe, but I'm-a need the link to drop box. Completely forgot to sign up or anything. Sorry. :/

RedDeath9
03-27-2011, 08:25 PM
I really like the effort and work you're putting into this, +1 for the concept and the songs, really well thought out and this is very, very professional of you. I appreciate it a lot, just to let you know.

I think the last piece should employ themes from each of the previous songs, perhaps modified or in a different key/rhytmic, so we could all sort of work on that piece as an effective conclusion to the concept.

I also think the Sleep part should be minimalistic, perhaps more of a contemplating, brooding atmosphere, to reflect the title and philosophy of the piece itself.

The first two sound like the most progressive-minded pieces, certainly the second one, where each section develops from an idea taking from the previous theme in the piece, since it would really reflect the character of it.

Just my thoughts on this.

First of all, thanks, heh... I still feel like I'm neglecting it sometimes, though, so I'll try to post here more frequently.

Secondly, I agree with each of your three ideas. That was exactly how I imagined Sleep to be.

I posted a track that might have some interesting ideas for either the first or second piece, in my opinion ; check your dropboxes.

Of course I'll be working with my group but if you guys can check it and approve or reject the difficulty of the piece and theme of it in case my group wants to work on progressing it, that would be cool =D

I like it so far, though the intro definitely needs something added to it - as you mentioned in the file. I see you've essentially started writing for the second song, with the way the themes all build on previous sections... When the arpeggios start at 65, I can like... imagine the universe expanding. Or something.

I think it's important to intervene on this point. Nietzsche might agree with a slight change to the sentence: "The narrator realizes that he himself is the sole creator and king of his universe." That lends itself to a borderline solipsistic view, which I'd be a bit uncomfortable with. I agree with perspectivism to an extent, but to deny the existence of an objective reality is absurd. The Nietzschean view (on my understanding) would be that there is an objective reality, that is perceived subjectively by us.

The claim to be king of the universe is very unnerving, too. I'm all for Nietzschean self-esteem, but there's a fine line between egoism (I advocate) and being a sociopath (I don't advocate).

Aye, I guess you're right. To be honest, I didn't think much of the wording. But your alteration to the sentence makes sense, thank you. So it essentially means that the narrator realizes he is the source of his own values, etc.? Rather than... whatever I was saying. That the universe doesn't exist without him.

Ah, determinism. From this view, Nietzsche, and others, concluded that there is no such thing as 'free will.' This realization of our enslavement to this world, IMO, ought to sound... scary? for lack of a better word. I lost sleep when that thought came into my mind.

Agreed. I think there should be an almost "oppressive" quality to it... Something dehumanizing...

My personal opinion is that it would be more realistic to end the conflict on the journey to overman, rather than actually becoming overman.

Okay, makes sense...

Sorry this is so disorganized. I'm a disorganized kind of guy.

No matter about the disorganization, that's okay :p:

Lastly...

I have something, maybe, but I'm-a need the link to drop box. Completely forgot to sign up or anything. Sorry. :/

Alright... First, you need to sign up for it, and then you need to provide us with the email you signed up with. Then one of us can invite you.

I'm glad you're here. Someone to bounce ideas off of, someone to keep me in line when I get... philosophically confused.

guitar_jew
03-27-2011, 08:54 PM
I'm glad you're here. Someone to bounce ideas off of, someone to keep me in line when I get... philosophically confused.

D'awww. :D

Where do I sign up? Is it just dropbox.com? Don't want to sign up for the wrong place and blow up my computer.

First of all, thanks, heh... I still feel like I'm neglecting it sometimes, though, so I'll try to post here more frequently.

I think between you and JD, you comprise most of the work ethic. I'm a lazy bastard 95% of the time. Also,I think we have enough ideas to at least start writing music. Three groups, one idea per song, one song per group... Yerr.

DiminishedFifth
03-27-2011, 08:56 PM
From reading the concepts of the songs they all seem to rely on a "this happened, then this" kind of line of thinking. I could easily see this album being pretty progressive through-and-through even during the more minimalistic songs.

I'm enjoying the concept and everything. I like the circular structure brought up in the last song where we do a reprise of an earlier theme (I could see it working best if it was the first song, like a "looking back" kind of thing).

I'm good with minimalism and the concept of "Sleep" sounds good to me. I might take a stab at it soon.

Maybe we should delete the "older" songs and start uploading into the correct folders?

I think it'd be good if we waited on the last like... 2 songs and worked on those together. Bringing ideas from each song into the fold, possibly using retrograde or inversion to really make the "Eternal Recurrence" theme feel real.

My personal opinion is that it would be more realistic to end the conflict on the journey to overman, rather than actually becoming overman.

If we were to do this, would the last song be an almost wanting kind of song/should it feel unresolved? or would it be like an "on this journey I learned a bunch" kind of finale?

guitar_jew
03-27-2011, 09:03 PM
If we were to do this, would the last song be an almost wanting kind of song/should it feel unresolved? or would it be like an "on this journey I learned a bunch" kind of finale?

I meant that at the resolution of the protagonist's existential crisis, he begins his personal revaluation of values, beginning to create his own standards. That is the first step on the 'journey' to becoming overman.

The reason I think this is more realistic is because a true overman would never have had an existential crisis in the first place. If the overman is the one who loves his fate and eternal recurrence, then he must have lived without any regrets or moments that he would not want to live again. The existential crisis that makes up the conflict here is precisely that; a moment of the protagonist's life that he would not want to recur eternally.

DiminishedFifth
03-27-2011, 09:11 PM
I meant that at the resolution of the protagonist's existential crisis, he begins his personal revaluation of values, beginning to create his own standards. That is the first step on the 'journey' to becoming overman.

The reason I think this is more realistic is because a true overman would never have had an existential crisis in the first place. If the overman is the one who loves his fate and eternal recurrence, then he must have lived without any regrets or moments that he would not want to live again. The existential crisis that makes up the conflict here is precisely that; a moment of the protagonist's life that he would not want to recur eternally.

Ah ok. So the 'overman' is basically a perfect human? Someone who has accepted his fate and lives with no regrets according to his own system of values?

guitar_jew
03-27-2011, 09:18 PM
Yep.

RedDeath9
03-27-2011, 09:46 PM
I meant that at the resolution of the protagonist's existential crisis, he begins his personal revaluation of values, beginning to create his own standards. That is the first step on the 'journey' to becoming overman.

The reason I think this is more realistic is because a true overman would never have had an existential crisis in the first place. If the overman is the one who loves his fate and eternal recurrence, then he must have lived without any regrets or moments that he would not want to live again. The existential crisis that makes up the conflict here is precisely that; a moment of the protagonist's life that he would not want to recur eternally.

Hmm... I essentially saw the overman as a response to the existential crisis. Didn't Nietzsche talk about this "era of nihilism" or something, to which humanity's response was to "evolve" into the overman? (weird word choice, feel free to twist around). That is, humanity sets of the goal of "Ubermensch" as a result of a world-wide existential crisis... Or whatever.

Our character will accept his existential crisis as a necessary part of becoming the overman. He'll love that part of his life, because it transformed him into who he is today.

I'm tired though, so I might have misinterpreted you...

And yes, sign up on dropbox.com

And writing writing writing... Should we all start composing for the first songs, then? I assume it'd be easier that way, since we're going to have recurring themes...

Also...

I think between you and JD, you comprise most of the work ethic.

I find this particularly ridiculous, because my work ethic is shit.

guitar_jew
03-27-2011, 11:04 PM
I essentially saw the overman as a response to the existential crisis. Didn't Nietzsche talk about this "era of nihilism" or something, to which humanity's response was to "evolve" into the overman?

In a sense, yes. The overman was a response to the death of God, a concept which lends itself to nihilism. The 'era of nihilism' was Nietzsche's comments on the European culture of his day. Germany had become marked by nihilism manifesting as German nationalism and growing anti-Semitism, both of which Nietzsche hated .

Our character will accept his existential crisis as a necessary part of becoming the overman. He'll love that part of his life, because it transformed him into who he is today.

That makes sense, and is applicable. I personally take a more black-and-white view of the issue; anything painful or unpleasant would not be something I'd like to recur eternally.

My interpretation was that overmen were born, not made, and that the 'higher men' (men who approximate Ubermensch-like qualities) are the ones who will ultimately lead the way to the overman.

I find this particularly ridiculous, because my work ethic is shit.

Huh. Well, that's what I get for making an assumption.

Yeah, I'd suggest beginning to write. I mean, the thread got started over a month ago, and we've finally settled on at least a skeletal conceptual framework. Enough to at least start with the actual music.

EDIT: All signed up for dropbox, I think. Email is jeff_1993@sbcglobal.net

RedDeath9
03-27-2011, 11:12 PM
Indeed. But I still need to know whether we want to start with the first three tracks (1, 2 and 3), rather than working on Sleep simultaneously... Then again, I guess we could still write Sleep first and incorporate its themes into previous songs. No big deal.

And don't worry, I wasn't criticizing you with my comment. I was just making an observation. :p:

guitar_jew
03-27-2011, 11:16 PM
I was just making an observation.

WELL YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO DO THAT HERE!


:P

RedDeath9
03-28-2011, 12:46 AM
OH. Did you sign up for dropbox yet?

EDIT: Ah, there it is.

JazzDeath
03-28-2011, 01:55 AM
Yeah my work ethic isn't excellent for most things, but I was just mentioning that if there is no work ethic for this project (honestly I'm not sure everyone knew what they signed up for, this is really ambitious) it's gonna fail miserably, this needs organisation because it's relatively complex to do cohesively and coherently.

frankibo
03-28-2011, 06:56 AM
Wow this has moved forward a lot. I think two things that need to happen before we begin are
1) the concepts should be written into notepad documents and put in the correct folders. It'd be handy if they were broken down into sections to help shape the songs as well, and
2) Our groups need to be assigned to individual songs to avoid working more than one group working on a song at once. It seems like JazzDeath has begun work on song 2 so your group can stick to that and the rest of us will leave it alone until a later date. Obviously you'll have another song to work on as well.
We need to assign the other songs so we can all begin working on them.

Really impressed with the progress you guys have made, congrats on that, and the concept is a good read, cool as ****. If possible, and if my group are okay with it, I'd like to be assigned to King of Nothing because that really resonated with me and I immediately had ideas springing to mind, something really epic and huge but haunting and desolate at the same time. I understand there's disagreement over the specifics of that concept but from what I understand it's remained essentially the same, although I could be wrong haha.

champayne
03-29-2011, 05:53 PM
Nobody was really adding anything on, so I added a little transition concept to your concept, I'm not really sure if it fits, so if anyone wants to, remove it, or fix it.

RedDeath9
03-30-2011, 12:30 AM
Alright, so... Each song will have to have one defining theme. Eternal Recurrence will contain at least one theme from every song. Also, when it's appropriate, we'll be bringing up modified versions of previous themes. We also need to decide on the general mood of each song.

ALSO... I'm sure we need ONE more song... He can't just go from deep existential depression to "Alright, well, let's start this journey!" Because right now, from his POV, there's no point in making that journey. There has to be a song (maybe before Eternal Recurrence? After?) in which he makes the assertion that life is worth living. Only then will he have the motivation to start creating his own values and whatnot.

Intro: The Death of God
2. The Birth of a Universe
3. Causality
4. Disevolution
5. King of Nothing
-. Sleep
??
-. Eternal Recurrence
??
Outro: The Ubermensch

1. The Death of God - the narrator's rejection of the Christian God and all other gods. Realization that God and religion are no longer valid absolute bases for morality. Beginning of crisis.
- First song, can't really extract previous themes
- Whoever is writing can decide the mood and style

2. The Birth of a Universe - pondering what came before the universe... The circumstances of its birth, if it wasn't set in motion by God. Also, by what we have written so far, it seems to be a summary of the universe's expansion.
- Can't really have similar themes to the first song, but this song will a theme that is used in causality. I'm thinking maybe we could make it like a part I and II? They're going to be pretty similar anyway...

3. Causality - The universe began, and a chain of cause and effect was set into motion... Every movement of every atom was caused by a previous event, and the atom's movement will cause a later event... Is the narrator simply part of the chain?
- Will probably have some stylistic similarities to The Birth of a Universe... Or maybe a similar chord progression... since TBoaU outlines the universe expanding and whatnot, and the expansion is directly linked to causality... We decided that it would sound scary, oppressive, dehumanizing, etc.
- Also see TBoaU. Might just make this part II, mixing it with that song.

4. Disevolution - Exploring the idea of human consciousness, and how the belief in God may be a "defense mechanism" against the meaningless of the universe. The human brain has evolved so far as to be aware of its own mortality, its own fragility, and the futility of living. This can have negative repercussions on one's psyche. Hence, disevolution.
- Haven't really decided on a style for this one either.

5. King of Nothing - After rejecting God as the creator and "king" of the universe, the narrator realizes that he himself is the sole creator and king of his universe. But he finds himself king of an empty and barren land... He exclaims one thing: I never wanted to be human. (These are actually Agalloch lyrics, but they explain the feeling so well) This might be the highest (or lowest) point of the crisis?
- frankibo has something in mind for this one... Haunting, desolate, epic. Sounds good to me.
- Could contain themes from "The Death of God" and "Birth of a Universe"

6. Sleep - Laying in bed pondering death, the dreamless sleep.. The nothingness which precedes and succeeds our lives... Surrounded by an infinite amount of nothing, don't our lives become infinitesimal and insignificant? Here, the narrator brushes with the void, recoils, and despairs at the fact that there is no god.
- Minimalistic and pensive, probably a bit unnerving too at points. The climax should be that "brush with the void."
- Perhaps a theme from "The Death of God" or "King of Nothing"

7. ??? - The protagonist must assert that life is worth living. I'll be getting your guys' input on this one. Maybe he could just assert it in "The Ubermensch"?

8. Eternal Recurrence - Perhaps he thinks about the death of the universe, and wonders whether or not the universe will collapse unto itself, and start anew... And if it did start anew, would it occur exactly as it did before?
- If ??? occurs, and it occurs before this song, then the protagonist realizes that he must maximize his contentment from this point on, so that in his next life, his contentment can be maximized as well (not necessarily in a selfish way). If ??? doesn't occur before this song, then it will have mostly a negative tone, I believe.

9. The Ubermensch - Essentially the end of his crisis, or his resolution to become what is defined by the "Ubermensch." This song outlines the beginning of the journey towards that goal.
- Not sure about the mood of this one. Perhaps something like... What Diminished said, wanting and unresolved?

I think it'd be good if we waited on the last like... 2 songs and worked on those together. Bringing ideas from each song into the fold, possibly using retrograde or inversion to really make the "Eternal Recurrence" theme feel real.

I forgot to respond to this, but yes, I agree. We should wait and work on the last 2 songs together. It might get disorganized, but a lot of the themes for it/them will already be written... But it would be good to have a song on which we all worked together.

Also, final point (I think) - After everything the protagonist goes through, how does he decide that life is worth living?

How would you guys decide? And I'm assuming either that you haven't gone through existential crises, or that you've already decided that life is worth living, after having gone through one. :p:

Actually, I realize now that's a really heavy question. Just give me your thoughts on that ??? song, and whether or not you think it should be somewhere in the album.

Errr, I also know there are some questions I'm forgetting to ask you guys. But hopefully they will come to me.

AH! So, merging The Birth of a Universe and Causality into one song, parts I and II, good idea or no? If we did this, Group A (RedDeath9, JazzDeath and champayne) could work on those, Group B (frankibo and Rokkstar) could work on King of Nothing, which frankibo already has ideas for, and Group C (DiminishedFifth, Quibokk and guitar_jew) could work on The Death of God... And we could leave Disevolution for later, as I didn't have any ideas for recurring themes with that one.

Gah, it's always complicated though, when you want recurring themes. frank and rokkstar will need themes from The Death of God... ACTUALLY, I guess the theme doesn't have to be passed forward from The Death of God? if frank and rokkstar write something catchy in King of Nothing, it could always be passed back to The Death of God, to be used as a main theme, only modified...

So that'll work, yes?

Group C - 1. The Death of God
Group A - 2.+3. The Birth of a Universe/Causality
Group B - 5. King of Nothing

And some group can do Disevolution later, to fill that gap at 4.

Anyone can object to anything I've said :p: guitar_jew, do you see any philosophical blunders in my post??

frankibo
03-30-2011, 05:39 AM
I'm good with that, good job on sorting that out. Once I get the OK from Rokkstar I'll get going.

I've messed around with the dropbox, put all the themes in and stuff so we can work from that instead of reading from this thread. If anyone wants to make changes/update it then feel free to. Also if anything changes in the themes themselves, make sure the documents in the dropbox folder are changed too. Also, album needs a name!
My votes goes to I Never Wanted To Be Human. I know you said it's another bands lyrics already but I want to use them.

Also let's not forget that "you may not write a section that is impossible to play or has not received any thought", because if we got this recorded it has potential to be the most badass thing ever.

RedDeath9
03-30-2011, 10:27 PM
You guys should start getting on Skype. Especially you, champayne :p: I don't wanna have to discuss everything with you through this thread. Same goes for JazzDeath - sign on whenever you can.

guitar_jew
03-31-2011, 01:16 AM
I'm out of commission for a while. Managed to get internet, but it's my mom's computer, so downloading Guitar Pro and Skype is out of the question. It shouldn't be too long before the problem is solved. Couple days, a week or so at most.

Sorrz. :/

guitar_jew
03-31-2011, 01:29 AM
Response to RedDeath's post.

Also, final point (I think) - After everything the protagonist goes through, how does he decide that life is worth living? How would you guys decide? And I'm assuming either that you haven't gone through existential crises, or that you've already decided that life is worth living, after having gone through one.


Well, in my case, my passion for music and my discovery of philosophy gave (and give) my life my meaning. I live for the sounds I create, and the ideas I conceive. The protagonist could have a similar passion, although I'd like to avoid a passion for music. Pink Floyd's protagonist became a rock star in The Wall.

So, merging The Birth of a Universe and Causality into one song, parts I and II, good idea or no?

Great idea. Perhaps a motif that will eventually become the main theme to 'Eternal Recurrence' could be introduced at the end? Or perhaps repeating a motif from 'Birth.' I think that might be appropriate, considering the nature of the latter idea.

JazzDeath
03-31-2011, 04:01 AM
Nice idea Champayne I dig it, I'm definitely down for expanding upon that theme for the continuation of the piece!

RedDeath9
03-31-2011, 02:23 PM
At first, it seemed to me kind of melodically empty, especially compared to the previous part... Now, it sounds better, but more like a transition to another important part.

Gah, I think I'm just too much of a perfectionist :p: I'll have to compromise some of that for this project, of course...

champayne
03-31-2011, 02:38 PM
At first, it seemed to me kind of melodically empty, especially compared to the previous part... Now, it sounds better, but more like a transition to another important part.

Gah, I think I'm just too much of a perfectionist :p: I'll have to compromise some of that for this project, of course...


I meant it to be a transition as well, and keep in mind that that is sort of a rough sketch. I only posted because I was tired of the lack of progress :D.

JazzDeath
03-31-2011, 06:01 PM
I was away for 3 days, as I said before, I'm only home 2-3 days a week so I can only work on the project on those days. I'll post some stuff when I'm home and then you guys can work some stuff out from that or delete or add sections, instruments, whatever, from that, but I can't be here regularly to keep tabs and progress in a constant form

JazzDeath
03-31-2011, 06:02 PM
Oh and if it sounds empty to you in some way, make changes to it! That's what the groups are for, we can always work off each other to make a better piece!

RedDeath9
03-31-2011, 06:25 PM
Mhm... I'm just wondering whether or not champayne's part fits with the previous material theme, or the theme... I liked how we had generally simple time sigs, easy to follow... It seemed to fit with the almost... Rolling? Expansion of the universe, if that makes sense. Especially the 6/8 and 12/8 sections. Champayne's part kinda breaks the continuity... I tried doing something with it, but eh... I don't know.

I'm done editing that part, I'll try adding something to the intro now.

EDIT: JazzDeath, I implemented your idea. At least, I did for three bars, wasn't sure what to do after that... since, while the rhythm chord progression doesn't vary, the arpeggio progression does.

And you should get on Skype so this goes smoother!

champayne
03-31-2011, 06:53 PM
Mhm... I'm just wondering whether or not champayne's part fits with the previous material theme, or the theme... I liked how we had generally simple time sigs, easy to follow... It seemed to fit with the almost... Rolling? Expansion of the universe, if that makes sense. Especially the 6/8 and 12/8 sections. Champayne's part kinda breaks the continuity... I tried doing something with it, but eh... I don't know.

I'm done editing that part, I'll try adding something to the intro now.

I like them odd time sigs :haha:, but this is a group effort and I'll adapt.

Also, I really like Concept 1b. I really like the changes. Why couldn't I think of the arpeggios :D, and I like the other changes to it. I would change some of the drums on 89, but I don't want to interfere.

JazzDeath
03-31-2011, 07:08 PM
Here listen to your idea now Champayne, I kept the 7/4, honestly it's not odd time signatures that throw people for a loop, often it's the way the drums are implemented, so I reworked the rhythmic section, tell me what you think of it.

champayne
03-31-2011, 07:11 PM
I love it, and the riff that follows after wards. Incredible work.

RedDeath9
03-31-2011, 08:00 PM
I have no idea what I'm doing with the intro, honestly. Feel free to remove that stuff.

RedDeath9
04-01-2011, 02:43 AM
Great idea. Perhaps a motif that will eventually become the main theme to 'Eternal Recurrence' could be introduced at the end? Or perhaps repeating a motif from 'Birth.' I think that might be appropriate, considering the nature of the latter idea.

Yes, that sounds perfect... I don't have any concrete idea on what that motif will be, but I know Causality will include some semblance of "clockwork" in it, perhaps using the woodblock instrument that GP has...

And I think we can start Disevolution off with some tribal sticks + bongo thingies? I dunno, just an idea.

Response to RedDeath's post.



Well, in my case, my passion for music and my discovery of philosophy gave (and give) my life my meaning. I live for the sounds I create, and the ideas I conceive. The protagonist could have a similar passion, although I'd like to avoid a passion for music. Pink Floyd's protagonist became a rock star in The Wall.

Interesting. As for me, I'm not even sure whether I actually "overcame" anything. I guess I'm still in the process of evaluation, since I have no idea what I live for besides... Just enjoying myself. My end goal is to die happy... Just avoid that existential depression stuff, even as I'm lying on my deathbed. If I can avoid going crazy while anticipating my death, then I must have done something right.

The question, which I have yet to answer, is HOW I'll achieve that goal. I have no idea. My "existential crisis" (if it could even be called that) was mostly brought on by overthinking and boredom. It was odd, because it was in my Grade 12 year, and I considered myself as content as I ever had been, yet these questions still plagued me night after night. All it took to pull me out was to find myself a girlfriend :p: I've never lost a loved one. Once that happens, I imagine I'll be reeling again. Which is why I feel irresponsible when I'm not asking myself these questions - I'm ignoring the problem, and it is definitely there... I'm just too distracted to take proper notice.

Hmm, just had a thought. Due to being human, I love and care for people. I love my girlfriend, I'll love my children, and though I don't really "feel" it a lot, I know I love my family. Nihilism says that it's universally meaningless, and I'm inclined to agree... But I'll be fucked if that means I shouldn't try to enjoy my life. I'd much rather be happy than sad, and I'd much rather be alive than dead. Love feels good. So does other shit. There's one feeble reason, I guess.

But, the only reason it's feeble is because I'm comparing it to being dead. What does my happiness matter, if it's negated by non-existence? All of my endeavors will be rendered futile.

"But what of your family and friends??" you ask?? "Aren't they still living?? Your life could affect them, and therefore still have meaning after you've died!"

No - they'll die the same pitiful death that I did, slip into that same nothingness... Right? Hmmm... But what if... Let's say, for example, I had positively affected a Christian. Let's say he believed his chances of getting into heaven were increased by me. He'll be thankful for my actions (whatever they were). Later, he dies happy, believing he's going to heaven. "But he slips into nothingness instead," a part of me wants to say, "and his life was ultimately fruitless."

But it's not as if he's aware of nothingness. This is where the error in my thought lies, I believe... Nothingness is not something to be aware of, because nothingness doesn't exist. It exists just as much as heaven does. We have as much proof for "nothing" as we do for "heaven."

Life is not a single light suspended in infinite darkness; there is no darkness... Non-existence is what you make of it. It doesn't have to be all-negating. The Christian dies believing he's going to heaven - Where does he go? Certainly not heaven. Certainly not nowhere. However, it's not about where he is, but where he isn't. The only conclusion to draw is that he's not living.

What I'm trying to get at is that non-existence shouldn't play a factor in the creation of one's own meaning. The entire concept is invalid, and to bring it into consideration while creating values and whatnot is just absurd. Values and morals and meaning should be created in relation to life, not death. The Christian died happy, and that was the end of his story. Non-existence doesn't factor in, anywhere.

I guess that Epicurus quote sums it up pretty well:

"Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not."

I've lost my train of thought, and I'm not sure I answered any useful questions. But I was rambling anyway.

I'm good with that, good job on sorting that out. Once I get the OK from Rokkstar I'll get going.

I've messed around with the dropbox, put all the themes in and stuff so we can work from that instead of reading from this thread. If anyone wants to make changes/update it then feel free to. Also if anything changes in the themes themselves, make sure the documents in the dropbox folder are changed too. Also, album needs a name!
My votes goes to I Never Wanted To Be Human. I know you said it's another bands lyrics already but I want to use them.

Also let's not forget that "you may not write a section that is impossible to play or has not received any thought", because if we got this recorded it has potential to be the most badass thing ever.

Thank you for that :cheers: Appreciate it.

About the name, I think I Never Wanted To Be Human sounds a little bit too... I dunno? Angsty? And not in an existential way :p: More like... Whiny teenager way. Perhaps we could just go with "Human"? Or, could do something Nietzsche related... The Ubermensch/Overman? I dunno. Need other people's thoughts.

frankibo
04-01-2011, 08:38 AM
About the name, I think I Never Wanted To Be Human sounds a little bit too... I dunno? Angsty? And not in an existential way :p: More like... Whiny teenager way. Perhaps we could just go with "Human"? Or, could do something Nietzsche related... The Ubermensch/Overman? I dunno. Need other people's thoughts.

Firstly, epic personal essay, it was a good read, and that quote nicely surmised your (somewhat rambled) point :P

And I see what you mean, it does have that feeling to it I suppose. I guess Ubermensch or Overman would make an equally good title.

JazzDeath
04-01-2011, 12:15 PM
THis is always an interesting concept for me, I personally do "loosely adhere" to a school of thought that stems from Nihilism named Absurdism, which, without going as far as nihilism (Which denies existance altogether, which I consider ridiculous since in my mind, it is only a test of how extreme one can push their beliefs), rather, my beliefs tend to gravitate towards the thought that there is no higher purpose in life, in relation to human beings. (As in, we human beings are not centers of the universe, and hardly more meaningful than anything else in the universe)

In that sense I know that in the end, the ultimatum remains that our life becomes pointless once we die, but even while keeping that in mind, I can still make my life, while I live it, one hell of a ride and enjoy it along the way.

RedDeath9
04-01-2011, 12:36 PM
Firstly, epic personal essay, it was a good read, and that quote nicely surmised your (somewhat rambled) point :P

And I see what you mean, it does have that feeling to it I suppose. I guess Ubermensch or Overman would make an equally good title.

Heh... thanks. :p:

And... Just in case, I didn't mean to sound... mean or anything, sorry if I came off as that way. I just prefer short titles to long ones, I guess. But we can decide all this later!

THis is always an interesting concept for me, I personally do "loosely adhere" to a school of thought that stems from Nihilism named Absurdism, which, without going as far as nihilism (Which denies existance altogether, which I consider ridiculous since in my mind, it is only a test of how extreme one can push their beliefs), rather, my beliefs tend to gravitate towards the thought that there is no higher purpose in life, in relation to human beings. (As in, we human beings are not centers of the universe, and hardly more meaningful than anything else in the universe)

In that sense I know that in the end, the ultimatum remains that our life becomes pointless once we die, but even while keeping that in mind, I can still make my life, while I live it, one hell of a ride and enjoy it along the way.

Aye, I tend towards Absurdism as well. "Die content" is the only option I can garner from it.

Also, another idea for a recurring motif: arpeggiated sus2 chord :p: Like the one at bar 81 in "extra riffs."

guitar_jew
04-01-2011, 01:03 PM
In that sense I know that in the end, the ultimatum remains that our life becomes pointless once we die, but even while keeping that in mind, I can still make my life, while I live it, one hell of a ride and enjoy it along the way.

My problem with nihilism is the claim that things are meaningless, and therefore have no value. Whenever the question of value arises, the question that necessarily comes next is 'of value to whom and for what?' Of course things are universally meaningless, because 'meaning' and 'value' are subjective, human concepts.

Which denies existance altogether, which I consider ridiculous since in my mind,

To be conscious is to be conscious of something. One can't be conscious of nothing, because that is a contradiction in terms.

Loosely quoting Ayn Rand, who is also worth reading, but largely stole her ideas from Nietzsche and simply applied them to economics (If we have any radical anti-capitalists in our lot, let's just agree to disagree on this subject, mmkay? :) )

Still, her work is a good look into the point of view of someone heavily affected by Nietzsche.

(As in, we human beings are not centers of the universe, and hardly more meaningful than anything else in the universe)

The way I see it, I am not the center of the universe, but of my universe.

. Perhaps we could just go with "Human"?

Death already did an album called Human. I think 'Overman/Ubermensch' isn't subtle enough, but it'll suffice if nothing else comes up.

RedDeath9
04-01-2011, 01:07 PM
Death already did an album called Human. I think 'Overman/Ubermensch' isn't subtle enough, but it'll suffice if nothing else comes up.

I was aware of that, but forgot to say so in my post :p: And I agree about the second thing. As I said in my other post, we can figure out the album name later... Though it is fun to brainstorm :p:

DAMN YOU TIM BENNETT AND YOUR TONGUE SMILIES.

JazzDeath
04-01-2011, 07:10 PM
Note that if you try to elaborate on an idea on guitar and you just work on the guitar part, please delete the drums and bass or it sounds really messy and you don't know what's complete and what isn't. Try not to leave parts of previous ideas in files when you work on them.

JazzDeath
04-02-2011, 02:29 PM
Alright I'm leaving again for a few days, I was wondering what was going on with the other groups though... Could I get an update on that, is anyone working on their parts?

DiminishedFifth
04-02-2011, 02:49 PM
I've been busy the past couple of days, but I'll get onto it this week.

frankibo
04-02-2011, 04:30 PM
I've been busy the past couple of days, but I'll get onto it this week.

I'm unsure how to start seeing as I'm heavily reliant on themes from the first two songs.

guitar_jew
04-03-2011, 03:43 AM
Aight. I threw TuxGuitar on mom's laptop while she's away- I'm not editing or anything, though, because we all know TG and GP don't mix well. So DiminishedFifth, Quibokk and I all need to start communicating and working out ideas. I've checked out what's in the WIP folderand I think it's a good start. At some point, though, I feel like it'll need to take a darker turn, so as to better reflect the 'crisis' aspect of the concept.

I'm going to talk to my brother tomorrow about fixing the video card in my personal computer so I can regain access to skype and Guitar Pro, so we can all start to make some progress.

Also, just a thought, perhaps whenever a group believes they've finished a song, we throw a thread up for crits from the general T&C public? Maybe get some feedback during the process of writing the thing. Maybe not for the whole album, but just a couple songs here and there.

Rokkstar
04-03-2011, 03:37 PM
Guys I know this looks like bad on me, but my computer fried out right after I was getting done with some hardcore mid term stuff... D: So I really haven't been able to check up on this stuff for a really long time. But in the next week I hope to have read everything that I haven't been able to... :(

frankibo
04-04-2011, 06:40 AM
Guys I know this looks like bad on me, but my computer fried out right after I was getting done with some hardcore mid term stuff... D: So I really haven't been able to check up on this stuff for a really long time. But in the next week I hope to have read everything that I haven't been able to... :(

No worries, I imagine we'll spend the next few months gingerly pressing forward but over summer we'll make some proper progress!

JazzDeath
04-05-2011, 06:35 AM
I was wondering, just like that, if the piece we have at the moment should serve as the second piece on the album or as the first. It does sound epic (like the title Birth of a Universe would suggest) but in a way I find it to be relatively more sinister and perhaps the title Death of a God and the lyrical context of that would fit the character of the piece better. Might not be a bad idea to be starting with the first piece on the album, either.

I don't know if anyone's heard the piece, it's under the Work in Progress (WIP) folder in our Epic Album folder, in the dropbox, named Group A, Song 1 - WIP.

If you guys could give some feedback or things you might want to change, think could be better or if you have ideas, let us know! Also, just wondering, Champayne do you have a dropbox and Skype? We're still working on the piece but I'd like to hear more input from you!

champayne
04-05-2011, 02:41 PM
I was wondering, just like that, if the piece we have at the moment should serve as the second piece on the album or as the first. It does sound epic (like the title Birth of a Universe would suggest) but in a way I find it to be relatively more sinister and perhaps the title Death of a God and the lyrical context of that would fit the character of the piece better. Might not be a bad idea to be starting with the first piece on the album, either.

I don't know if anyone's heard the piece, it's under the Work in Progress (WIP) folder in our Epic Album folder, in the dropbox, named Group A, Song 1 - WIP.

If you guys could give some feedback or things you might want to change, think could be better or if you have ideas, let us know! Also, just wondering, Champayne do you have a dropbox and Skype? We're still working on the piece but I'd like to hear more input from you!

I have Skype, and the DropBox is actually located on my computer :D. I'll try to get on more often, but I've been very busy and I'm getting some computer upgrades done soon, but I'll try to contribute as much as I can.

EDIT:

Got a virus today, removed it, but still have some problems concerning icons and a few programs. Also, my Dropbox folder isn't working. It gives me an error message. I can still get on the website though, I just have to download the files one by one, there goes the convenience :(.


EDIT AGAIN:

I just upgraded my computer. I added a new hard drive and formatted the old one to get rid of all the errors. I don't have Guitar Pro, DropBox, Skype, or anything, but I'll get around to installing them. I'll get back to contributing in a bit.

RedDeath9
04-08-2011, 12:43 AM
guitar_jew - noted. I agree that the song has to take a darker turn. And your other idea is good as well, about making threads for some of the songs.

Also, if the current song will be The Death Of God... I was thinking diminished and his group start on Birth of a Universe? I think the arpeggio theme in The Death Of God could work well as a recurring riff... Especially in a song like Birth of a Universe, the arpeggios make me think of like.... Expansion, growth. I dunno. Just an idea. It can be tranposed however you like.

Champayne, we hope that you'll be back with us soon :)

EDIT: Just wanna say, frankibo's part in track_WIP1_champayne_4 is absolutely sick.

JazzDeath
04-18-2011, 04:54 PM
Any progress?!? I added more shit to our piece and I think we're nearly done the first piece...

frankibo
04-18-2011, 06:31 PM
I've got exams and coursework and revision now so I'm gonna be dead until mid June but I promise I will be on this like flies on shit once summer rolls around.

|_JR_|
04-23-2011, 01:46 AM
First time I log into UG in months, and I come across this thread... quite an ambitious project, and if it pulls through it could be something epic. Loving the philosophical concepts being thrown around.

Too bad I can't join you in this, but I just wanted to wish you the best of luck. :)

~JR

guitar_jew
05-01-2011, 08:17 PM
At this point, I haven't seen anyone doing anything. I think between my computer's video card getting good and ****ed up (access to Mom's laptop- can't put GP on it, though. :/ ) and the lack of activity on this thread, my vote's gonna go to postponing this until summer rolls around so that everyone'll have more free time on their hands to put towards this. By no means do I want it to die, given all the thought and time put into it already, but perhaps now isn't the best time?

I guess someone else or I will bump this in June to start it up again. Unless, of course, everyone else is vehemently opposed to the idea of waiting, but given the inactivity, I doubt that's the case.

JazzDeath
05-01-2011, 10:27 PM
This is what Me and RedDeath worked on up to now, we have a section in particular to work out more (Bar 81) and some polish and transitions to work out better but as a whole it's nearly done... I don't know, I guess everyone else is busy or still waiting on us to finish it. Still no news from Champayne in our group as to what's going on since he got Dropbox.

There's some mixing to be done too I think, but it gives an idea.

DiminishedFifth
05-01-2011, 11:00 PM
I actually just got an idea, if my group's getting the intro song... then I've got a good thing hopefully.

I'll put it in my tuning first, and then see what y'all say before I move it over to a "normal" tuning.

EDIT: Sorry guys, since no one mentioned anything about it I'm gonna end up taking it for myself and my band. We all really liked it and got some ideas for it...

I'll come up with some more stuff once the Summer comes around :p:

champayne
05-02-2011, 03:23 PM
This is what Me and RedDeath worked on up to now, we have a section in particular to work out more (Bar 81) and some polish and transitions to work out better but as a whole it's nearly done... I don't know, I guess everyone else is busy or still waiting on us to finish it. Still no news from Champayne in our group as to what's going on since he got Dropbox.

There's some mixing to be done too I think, but it gives an idea.

I got my computer set up and I'm still getting around to installing my old software. I have GP, set up DropBox again (which works this time and I hope it stays that way) and I haven't thought of Skype yet. Other than that, I have been busy with projects, a research paper, etc. and I have been having trouble finding time to get on and install things, not to mention think of anything useful to add to the piece :p:. I'll try to get around and find some time to add anything actually worthwhile to the piece, but I expect to find a lot more time to work on this towards the summer. That doesn't mean I won't add anything, just I can be more productive later.

EDIT:

By the way... has anyone mentioned Lost Soul yet? I only listened to their newer album and didn't know about their 2002 release :p:.

http://www.cmdistro.com/Item/Lost_Soul_-_Ubermensch_-Death_Of_God-/14053

guitar_jew
05-17-2011, 11:05 PM
Or, could do something Nietzsche related... The Ubermensch/Overman? I dunno. Need other people's thoughts.

Regarding the album title... I recently bought a copy of 'On the Genealogy of Morals' and 'Ecce Homo.' (They're different books, but both compiled in the same volume). The subtitle to the latter is 'How One Becomes What One Is,' and I thought that might make an excellent title for this project.

I know I've said it a couple times already, but I'm getting my personal computer fixed real soon. Circumstances delayed it a LOT longer than I ever intended. I'm starting to get a bunch of ideas. Been on a Periphery trip for a couple weeks now (Spencer can ****ing SING, holy shit!), and it set off one of those sparks that reawakens your creativity after a slump, you know?

School gets out in a couple weeks, so that won't interfere with my schedule. And I can stay up however late anyone needs me to over summer to deal with time zones. June turns me into an insomniac. :P

Yerr.

guitar_jew
05-25-2011, 01:03 AM
Buzz.

I'm going to be finished with school tomorrow or Thursday, and my computer's in the shop, so that's getting fixed, and it shouldn't be long before it's back in my room. Anyone else for giving this a good kick in the nuts soon to get it started again? I'd hate for it to die after all the talking.

RedDeath9
05-31-2011, 11:39 AM
I'm willing. Hopefully the others are still interested. I'd be willing to work on the whole thing with just a small group though.

guitar_jew
05-31-2011, 04:50 PM
Yeah, we need to find out somehow who all is still interested.

Who all is still interested besides RedDeath9 and I?

Quibokk
05-31-2011, 07:37 PM
Yeah, I'm still interested.

champayne
06-02-2011, 08:23 PM
Still interested.