Centrepiece - very unfinished prog with a million instruments


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whalepudding
03-10-2011, 12:31 PM
This has been very difficult to write, it's not NEARLY finished, I just need some opinions. I genuinely have no idea whether this is any good or not - most of my other songs I've been confident are at least un-shit, but with this I'm worried I may have disappeared up my arse.

Crit for crit, be harsh as you like, thanks hugely for any replies.

Shaharz
03-10-2011, 02:02 PM
This is pure awesomeness.

Life Is Brutal
03-10-2011, 06:35 PM
Very good stuff, some of the chord themes you have here are crushing, and alot of the melodic lines you have are very interesting/heartfelt worthy.

I can't give much crit more than you have a very epic piece here, and that I like how well your able to balance key changes.

Peres.T.Peanut
03-10-2011, 07:23 PM
this is freakishly awsome. at first I thought it was going to be just a shitload of instruments and no substance. **** that, its amazing.

Shredin0id
03-10-2011, 07:34 PM
You sir are a musical genius. I applaud you :)

slayerfrk
03-11-2011, 09:30 AM
i pooped

Kirborg
03-11-2011, 09:39 AM
so awesome!! i really want to hear this recorded. if you made a whole album like this i'd definitely buy it

Gulli05
03-11-2011, 10:32 AM
Are you the leading composer for Haken or? :confused: It reminds me alot of Haken and Dream Theater with Dimmu Borgir Orchestrals at times and some classical-ish influence!

It's amazing!! That's all I have to say to now. Time for you to work hard on finishing this song and then record it!!

Semola94
03-11-2011, 10:35 AM
Wow O.o Awesome Song 10/10

juckfush
03-13-2011, 08:34 PM
Extravagantly long critique, incoming! (Sorry it's taken so long to get to you. I'll blame that on it taking 3 days to send due to its length :p: ).

Pad Chords -> Herp-Derp - Very nice use of voice-leading and non-linear harmonies in the introduction. There's almost a polytonal characteristic to the movement, but without being blaringly disrupted or discordant. I'll have you know now that I'm going to be studying (and I mean that absolutely literally) the sub-modulations and movements in this piece.
The addition of alternately voiced chords with subtle extensions via the acoustic guitar was a nice touch to include more harmonies, and the use of staggered entry henceforth is brilliant. What I really enjoy about this introduction is the subtle undertones; I'd barely picked up on the Glass Armanica, so I spent a good while searching the tracks for that melody :haha: I've been a fan of subtle layering like that for a long time, since there's always something new to discover in the composition.
The other thing I have to commend you on is the construction of melodies. Despite a very busy composition - though not cluttered - there's always a central theme in your work, and the use of theme and variation really enhances the piece. Kudos on the switching of instrument roles too - that bass is tasty!

Herp Derp -> Russian Theme - Herp Derp features one of my favourite lines in the piece. The chromatic ascension really makes it, and it's a nice variation of the intro chords (I thought something was familiar, but I had to cheat and check the tracks). The synth pad vamp on a D5 during the verse really puts forth the quality of an interlude, since the motion and progression rests at a temporary standstill, and from here on, really, I can't attribute much besides mentioning that I love the clockwork concept, and interplay between instruments. You could probably tell from critiquing Two-Scoops that I really, really like instrumental interplay and trade-offs. :p:

Russian theme! -> Subdued Interlood - Wow. At first, I was a little worried about the 4 bar string break, thinking it was going to be a moment akin to when a metalcore band strikes the low C and holds it as a transition, before jumping into something meh - very glad it wasn't! Again, very, very slick variations of your earlier themes. It's great that the central concepts and motifs are being explored and built upon, and it's here that the Ascending Melody reminds me of donkey Kong, or something similar.
The stand-out for me? The subtleties complimenting the central themes, again. The chromatic runs on the Glass Armanica and similar features of the string section really enhances the atmosphere, and coherence is maintained by landing on scale tones. Very, very cool trick.

Subdued Interlood -> Tense - The flute melody here is brilliant, and like the title suggests, it's nice to have a part allowing the ears to rest. The horn introduction to the ending 4 bars of the Interlude(lood?) was amazingly powerful. What I enjoyed about the Tense section is that while it's a reprise of the chord melody, you held off using the distorted guitars for a second time. Whether it was intentional or not to serve this function, a lot of tension was made there, particularly since the Polka features the guitars landing strong on the 2s and 3s, skipping the 1 (I'm counting 1 2 3 2 2 3).

I'll post what I have now, since I have a habit of exiting review windows. If I don't add onto this soon today, I've probably already headed off to Uni, so I'll finish up tonight at around 7 when I get back. :)
Not exactly the most helpful critique, but a lengthy read is always good, isn't it?

:cheers:

whalepudding
03-13-2011, 10:38 PM
:eek: longest crit ever

Thank you enormously, I will have to give you a more in depth one with the next thing you post. It is absolutely helpful, I'll take into account everything you said. :cheers:

Thanks hugely to everyone who said they liked it as well, I'm incredibly glad to hear that. And I lol'd at "I pooped". Partly because I wasn't sure if it was a compliment, a criticism, or just a statement of fact. :haha:

tomas_almeida
03-16-2011, 08:46 AM
I was really surprised with what I heard. I'm really intrigued if you have any classicic instruction or if the voice leadings and the note choice was pure ear. An example is the passage from bar 152 to 153, the resolution is immaculate, and I can't tell if it was by ear or if you theoretically knew how to apply it. Nevertheless, it's amazing.

It really makes me feel like I'm inside a haunted castle.

I'm going to take more time to write a bigger post, talking about every part you wrote, you really deserve it. For now I don't have the time, so I'll do it later.

In the meantime, go check my thread if you want. http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1422052


EDIT: Apparently, the link that I had put in my thread wasn't working, so I uploaded the file in a zip.

Mean Mr Mustard
03-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Alright, Im going to try to go through this song section by section. If theres nothing I can say about it, then you can at least know what I thought worked the best.

The intro wasn't really up my alley, but once the other instruments came in, it was fine. It all sounds very eerie, I hope you dont mind me saying, but it reminded me of the A7X song A Little Piece of Heaven. This whole intro section was just weird though haha. It was well written, but weird. Once the first verse comes around, Id imagine that the vocals would make it much better. The way you used all those instruments perfectly around bar 45 was great!

When the guitars entered at bar 69, the song just got very awesome. It fits really well with the brass stuff, and the strings riff that comes in just sounds so evil and dark, its great. I have to say that "chordmelody" was a little cluttered though, mainly starting at bar 97, just sounds like a bit too much going on. The slowdown afterwards was nice though.

Subdued Interlood to Tense was perfect. Loved the mood that was conveyed there. It sounds so heavy without even a distortion guitar.

"Lolpolka" was too awesome.

"Lovely" was great sounding as well, but I think that there may be too many of these sorts of parts. I dont know, but I think some repetition would help here, you have many memorable sections, and you could implement in with some changes and stuff. And maybe you have, but to me, it seems like you needed some sort of main theme. The melody at 49 was great, and all of the tracks in that section seem like they would make for a great outro.

Also, Id like to mention that I have never seen so many tracks before in my life.

Overall, the song was an incredible display of instrumentation and I was bewildered at parts by how great it sounded. The brass + strings combo you had going was great, and the other instruments just highlighted those two I think. Lolpolka was definitely the highlight for me. Overall, it was very fun to listen to, but the first part of the song, before the distorted guitars came in was a little too "wacky" for me. Still incredible though. The only thing I have to say is that you may have too much awesome crammed into one song. Again, some repetition would be sweet, because Id love to hear some of this stuff later on in the song. Please finish.

whalepudding
03-19-2011, 02:23 AM
Thanks hugely for the crit :cheers:

I genuinely thought I'd repeated things enough though, possibly too much. Maybe it's because I'd listened to it 100 times, and overestimated how quickly the listener would get sick of ideas - the lovely part incorporates the lolpolka melody on guitar 2, which had also been repeated in the "tense" and "I'll just slip this melody in here" sections. And the rhythm played by guitar 1 in "lovely" is a repeat of the rhythm played by the guitars in bar 89. And the "tense" section, as well as bringing in the lolpolka melody, repeats the "chordmelody" melody on the brass instruments, which in turn is based on a chord progression from the intro.

In fact I think the only theme I haven't reused in some way is the oboe melody from "subdued interlood", and I was planning on using it later. OH and bar 159, but that's going to be in the outro.

Is the problem that I have too many themes that I'm reusing, so many that none of them stick out as the main one? Or that the repetition isn't obvious enough?

CedricD
03-19-2011, 09:04 AM
edit: goddamn, way too long. You can skip all that, it's pretty much perfect anyway.

Listened in gp6:

pad chords: very nice, sounds really dark, and sets the atmosphere.

More instruments: Same as pad chords, nice build up.

Ascending theme: Wow, everything works together perfectly, love the fade ins(bar 21 onwards). The melody is great and very strange sounding(in a good way).

Herp derp: once again, love the melody. Continuing the theme. Everything feels big and, yeah, russian.

This is a verse: not so impressed by this one, unless you're going to add vocals here or maybe make the acoustic just a little bit louder? Still sounds nice, but, it lacks something.

Samples of...: love it. Awesome job getting everything together like this, it's really impressive. Bar 49 onward is a great build-up.

I'll just...: love it, bar 65 onwards was just... wow..

Russian theme: Not much to crit here, it's just incredible! Everything fits perfectly, and it's fantastic.

Ascending theme: Same as russian theme, perfect. One thing, maybe, is I don't like the G# the strings are playing in bar 88. The only reason I mention it is I feel like I need to find something that's not perfect, or this wouldn't be a crit. The little runs are great, everything. And the more I listen, the better it gets.

Chordmelody: fantastic transition, very nice. Love the little chromatic run.

Russian: Great, sounds really big.

Subdued interlood: Didn't like this one as much, the melody didn't feel right to me. Everything else was great, it's just the melody. I'd make it a bit more... bassy. Maybe gp6 that's screwing me over again.. Still a good part, just less than your other perfect parts. I loved the end here though, nice transition to 'tense'

Tense: Sounds great. Nothing to crit really.

Lolpolka: Quite perfect again.

Herp: up to bar 154, everything is awesome and works together flawlessly. But then, imo, the transition to bar 155 is a bit too abrupt. I'd either make the instruments fade out a bit longer, or have the others fall in a bit earlier. Not a real problem though, just something that could've been better imo. Transition to 159 was flawless, and so was the transition to 'lovely'

Lovely: Lovely.

That was incredible, you're obviously very talented. Please finish this and record it(well, that's going to be a bit of a problem, but imagine how this would sound with real instruments?). I'd love to see more of your stuff.

Nothing I posted here to crit yet, I really should upload something(even though I've only really worked on 1 song in the last 6 months, I just realised :( )

And to your other question: No, you don't repeat too much. What you repeat doesn't get boring or stale, at all.

Mean Mr Mustard
03-19-2011, 01:44 PM
Thanks hugely for the crit :cheers:

I genuinely thought I'd repeated things enough though, possibly too much. Maybe it's because I'd listened to it 100 times, and overestimated how quickly the listener would get sick of ideas - the lovely part incorporates the lolpolka melody on guitar 2, which had also been repeated in the "tense" and "I'll just slip this melody in here" sections. And the rhythm played by guitar 1 in "lovely" is a repeat of the rhythm played by the guitars in bar 89. And the "tense" section, as well as bringing in the lolpolka melody, repeats the "chordmelody" melody on the brass instruments, which in turn is based on a chord progression from the intro.

In fact I think the only theme I haven't reused in some way is the oboe melody from "subdued interlood", and I was planning on using it later. OH and bar 159, but that's going to be in the outro.

Is the problem that I have too many themes that I'm reusing, so many that none of them stick out as the main one? Or that the repetition isn't obvious enough?
Oh okay, so the way you repeat it all, I guess I didnt notice all the repetition, which is probably what makes it feel so complete. I dont think that you have too many themes actually, I think its fine. I would just make sure that as you continue the song, you bring back one of those themes again, which it sounds like youre going to do anyways

morierdeity
03-21-2011, 09:51 AM
:wtf: One of, if not, the best GP composition I have heard ever. When you finished this piece, I will cry from happiness.

Hydra150
03-23-2011, 06:47 AM
I didnt know guitar pro could make such awesome sounds. Sounds like something from a Tim Burton film. Starring Pirates.

DiminishedFifth
03-26-2011, 01:30 PM
I'll start off by saying... I love this, but it's not one of your best (though your best is ****ing fantastic).

I have to say that the intro drags on a bit. Once you hit "Samples of Clocks and stuff for percussion" you can go straight to Russian Theme after that. It works, it saves all the best parts of the intro, and it doesn't drag! By the way, I love the Glass Armanica .

"Russian Theme" is fantastic as well. I like it enough that I put it at the end of the file as well... it flows perfectly and you need to go to a darker section after "Lovely". I would just change some parts of the rhythm to make it a bit heavier this time around. I literally have no crits about "Russian Theme"

"Ascending Theme" is good as well. But during "Chord Melody" when the acoustic comes in it's a bit cluttered. My mind doesn't know what to focus on.

Lolpolka is awesome. I love the left guitar and it's little... things it's got going on. I would, if I were you, slur the 32nd notes in the strings. It makes them flow a bit better and not be so... jarring.

Herp and Derp made me lol. But it's a great part. I like how you make the melody jump around from instrument to instrument. Nothing to complain about. Even with Lovely. Nothing to complain about. Just make it go to a heavier Russian Theme... or at least make it heavier when the strings take the melody.

It's not completed, so no "overall", but this is fantastic stuff. I like how you can vary the same themes over and over and we don't get tired of them. An idea to help you do that is, later in the song, change the time sig of the themes and make them fit. Or modulate them. Diminish or augment the rhythms. Put it in a slow section in half-time. There's so much potential for these great themes. I love it.

C4C on my EP (in sig)? I know you've critted most of the songs, but there's a couple you haven't. And, if you have, just comment on the EP as a whole? Cause I want to get it recorded and get it out :)

Gessu
03-26-2011, 02:15 PM
Awesome.... Cant say anything else...

whalepudding
03-26-2011, 02:19 PM
things
Thanks enormously for the crit, it's extremely helpful. :cheers: The idea of trying to get the themes to work in another time signature has interested me straight away, I definitely intend to try that, it's much more interesting than what I had in mind.

I'll crit your EP either tonight or tomorrow, depending on whether my inability to sleep lasts long enough.

Could I ask though, what you'd consider my best to be? Not for narcissism's sake, but because I'm planning on recording an album and am finding it incredibly difficult to decide on which songs to use. This was the only one I'd definitely decided on, the others seem messier each time I listen to them.

DiminishedFifth
03-26-2011, 02:29 PM
Thanks enormously for the crit, it's extremely helpful. :cheers: The idea of trying to get the themes to work in another time signature has interested me straight away, I definitely intend to try that, it's much more interesting than what I had in mind.

Oh yeah, it's so fun to do that. You end up with some really interesting rhythms when you do something even as simple as putting a 3/4 melody into 4/4.

Could I ask though, what you'd consider my best to be? Not for narcissism's sake, but because I'm planning on recording an album and am finding it incredibly difficult to decide on which songs to use. This was the only one I'd definitely decided on, the others seem messier each time I listen to them.
I'm a bit fond of Dream Sequence, personally. Just the parts that I put in my crit that I didn't like (there was like.. one part that I took out and it worked just fine still). Though, after relisten, this might be your best song, but only by a little ;)

prognico
04-05-2011, 08:12 PM
Nothing to add, this one is amazing. Sounds like Beyond twilight, one of my fav. bands...

Julz127
04-07-2011, 05:22 AM
Awesomeness causes my GP to crash.

Windows 7 can't handle the truth.