That "Lynch Sound", how to get it?


PDA

View Full Version : That "Lynch Sound", how to get it?


deeppurple97
03-20-2011, 01:30 PM
Hi Guys!

Been practicing Dokken songs lately, i tried soooo much amp settings, but i canīt get that special sound, and a friend of mine, who i thing is a quite good guitar player, couldnīt get it either. Has anyone ever had that amp setting, or guitar tuning, or whatever it might be? iīm a bit confused right now...

look forward to your answers

dp

dimarzio77
03-20-2011, 01:42 PM
1965 Marshall Plexi Super-100 & TNT 4x12 cabinet
Univox Uni-Drive
Jordan Creator
Fulltone Deja-Vibe
70's Echoplex
ESP Tiger & signature series guitars all strung with Dean Markley strings with Seymour Duncan Screamin' Demon pickups.
Dunlop Picks (light & flexible ones)

He also mentions his new amp from Peavey called the Brahma which is gonna be unveiled at the Jan 2005 NAMM show images/smilies/woot.gif

http://www.lewzworld.com/famousguitarsounds/georgelynch.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXco7g9FVgY

RetroGunslinger
03-20-2011, 01:43 PM
join the club, I even bought his signature zoom pedal, not a bad pedal at all but doesnt really have any sounds like his

RetroGunslinger
03-20-2011, 01:45 PM
he used an old ibanez tubescreamer and soldano amps alot too

DaFjory
03-20-2011, 02:11 PM
Wasn't it some heavily modded JCM800 which was only made once by some guy whose name I forget?

Love that tone, though. It's one of my favourites from the '80s, but it's a shame nobody ever tries to sound like that anymore. It's all about less effects these days and sounding dry. :rolleyes:

deeppurple97
03-20-2011, 02:22 PM
@dimarzio77

Thanx for listing all that information, but isnīt there something like a more "Iīm still going to school and donīt have that much money" -way?

btw: I tried "Itīs not love", and in my opinion i was pretty close to that sound.....
I use a Jackson San Dimas and a GX15 amp....

@DaFjory

Nobody tries to sound like that anymore??? Well, Iīd love to have that sound

DaFjory
03-20-2011, 03:35 PM
Nobody tries to sound like that anymore??? Well, Iīd love to have that sound

Nobody. I haven't heard a single mainstream guitarist trying to emulate that generic '80s hard rock/heavy metal tone anymore. Gilbert and Satch are the best examples - their tone is so dry, boring, throaty and devoid of character. Back when practically every guitarist used to dump heaps of reverb and delay onto their squealy sound, with the overall production sounding like it was recorded down in a well... Those were the days.

Slicer666
03-20-2011, 03:49 PM
Paul's tone on the last few albums has improved heaps though, and Satch uses effects more again.... but to no avail :p:

DaFjory
03-20-2011, 04:16 PM
Paul's tone on the last few albums has improved heaps though, and Satch uses effects more again.... but to no avail

Makes no difference. More effects, less effects - they've still completely shunned the '80s production techniques and gear. Everyone's tone these days is always 'in your face' instead of 'down in a well'; 'chunky and full' instead of 'squealy and tinny'; 'dry and throaty' instead of 'awash with heavy reverb and delay'. I know if I had the cash, I'd use an '80s shred tone forever.

*sigh*

Vendetta V
03-20-2011, 04:35 PM
^^ yeah Satch's toen now is super fat and juicy i'd say :) tho yeah the not of this earth is a nice example of that dry sound

DaFjory
03-20-2011, 05:28 PM
the not of this earth is a nice example of that dry sound

Actually, I think it's the opposite of dry. What I'd consider 'dry' would be anything after The Extremist. From self-titled onwards he lost that squealiness which was so common in the '80s. Same applies to Gilbert - the first 2 Racer X albums were trebly and squealy as fuck.

I hate, repeat HATE, that 'super fat and juicy' crap in a tone. The only exception I'll make is Vai.

DaFjory
03-21-2011, 08:46 AM
This (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/77436-george-lynch-tone.html) discussion makes for interesting reading, with this quote in particular...

The setup for George's guitar tone on "Under Lock And Key" was as follows:
We had two Marshall heads and two Laney heads, not sure which models, but one of them was a Plexi. We had cabs in three different rooms: two cabs were placed in the big room at Amigo, one connected to a Marshall, the other connected to the Laney. The Marshall was responsible for the high end part of the sound and the Laney was set to take care of the low end. There were 14 (fourteen) mics set up in that room in various psoitions around the cabinet and some further away to get some room tone. The second Laney was sent into a very dead room and had a Boss chorus pedal in front of it, set to very slight chorus. The second Marshall was sent into a small, tiled bathroom, to add a different room tone. Those 16 mics came in on the MCI 500 console mic pres. They were bussed to one bus and that bus had a UREI 530 EQ on it (best guitar EQ ever). George mentioned that he always gets a great tone with his Fostex 4track recorder when it's in total overdrive, so I asked him to bring it in. So after the 530 everything was sent to the Fostex 4track, which lived under a packing blanket under the console, so nobody would see it. The Fostex was on stunn, completely overdriven and was sent on to the 3M 32 track dig machine from there.

I dunno why the hell it has to be so complicated. Are those really the lengths one has to go in order to get that tone? What about at bedroom levels? Couldn't a decently-priced combo with a pedal or two do the job?

Personally, my favourite Lynch tone is from Under Lock And Key. The riffage on In My Dreams perfectly sums up that quintessential '80s shred tone I'm talking about. As I said, nobody ever sounds like that anymore.

Zanon
03-21-2011, 10:29 AM
Makes no difference. More effects, less effects - they've still completely shunned the '80s production techniques and gear. Everyone's tone these days is always 'in your face' instead of 'down in a well'; 'chunky and full' instead of 'squealy and tinny'; 'dry and throaty' instead of 'awash with heavy reverb and delay'. I know if I had the cash, I'd use an '80s shred tone forever.

*sigh*

Maye because the general 80's tone was shit ?

'Squealy and Tinny' 'Down a well' are tonal qualities most people really dislike as they don't sit well in mixes.

DaFjory
03-21-2011, 10:57 AM
^ Well, I've always felt like I'm in the minority when it comes to liking - no, LOVING - those tonal qualities. Pretty much everyone seems to have actively shunned it since the early '90s, as if they're ashamed to have been a part of shaping that era-defining sound. What's to be ashamed of? Those squealy '80s recordings sounded badass.

I can only hope for a resurgence of those values one of these days.

deeppurple97
03-21-2011, 11:01 AM
80īs tone was the coolest ever IMHO..... especially Lynch, Blackmore, EVH etc.....
I think iīll ask my guitar teacher about it, he has an ESP Tiger, maybe iīm allowed to try it??? ;)

Vendetta V
03-21-2011, 11:41 AM
Actually, I think it's the opposite of dry. What I'd consider 'dry' would be anything after The Extremist. From self-titled onwards he lost that squealiness which was so common in the '80s. Same applies to Gilbert - the first 2 Racer X albums were trebly and squealy as fuck.

I hate, repeat HATE, that 'super fat and juicy' crap in a tone. The only exception I'll make is Vai.
well that's what i was refer to as dry lol.. that's really dry and senseless idk...

DaFjory
03-21-2011, 11:52 AM
well that's what i was refer to as dry lol.. that's really dry and senseless idk...

I always considered a squealy tone to be more 'wet' than dry, but that's just my take on it. :p: I like using a whole bunch of adjectives to describe various tonal qualities. My favourite at one point was 'spongy', to describe quarter-step downtuning.

Vendetta V
03-21-2011, 12:03 PM
I always considered a squealy tone to be more 'wet' than dry, but that's just my take on it. :p: I like using a whole bunch of adjectives to describe various tonal qualities. My favourite at one point was 'spongy', to describe quarter-step downtuning.
haha i could tell that. well the reason i refer to it as dry is cause you called the other one [the one that i like] juicy so it wouldn't be dry and juicy but rather as wet and juicy lol :haha:

DaFjory
03-21-2011, 01:08 PM
Even Poison's über-generic tone in the '80s kicked more ass than anything I hear today. :D

deeppurple97
03-21-2011, 01:42 PM
@Way Cool JR

WoooHooo that video rocks!! wish i could do that!
and i agree, almost perfect Lynch sound!

deeppurple97
03-24-2011, 09:08 AM
Got to try my guitar teachers ESP Tiger yesterday. Seems much more like the Lynch sound, but not as close as we expected.....

Slicer666
03-24-2011, 09:45 AM
Makes no difference. More effects, less effects - they've still completely shunned the '80s production techniques and gear. Everyone's tone these days is always 'in your face' instead of 'down in a well'; 'chunky and full' instead of 'squealy and tinny'; 'dry and throaty' instead of 'awash with heavy reverb and delay'. I know if I had the cash, I'd use an '80s shred tone forever.

*sigh*

To come back to this, I really prefer to set up an 80s type or at least 80s inspired tone for my musacs :p:

DaFjory
03-24-2011, 12:13 PM
To come back to this, I really prefer to set up an 80s type or at least 80s inspired tone for my musacs

Whereas I'm stuck with a Line 6 Spider II. :o

Slicer666
03-24-2011, 12:54 PM
Pod HD500, not the best gear in the world but it gets the job done :p:


especially when I add a bullet coil cable and some BKP's :liplick:

LightninStrikes
03-25-2011, 01:22 AM
I Love 80's tones oh man so reverb rich and abusive amounts of delay I love it hehe

I've got a vypyr and if I was any good at fine tuning the tone I could probably get something pretty good but I make do.

deeppurple97
03-25-2011, 04:27 PM
Cool Video i found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MRJZGMbFj0

Have Fun!

Silky Smooth
03-26-2011, 03:27 AM
Lynch always had a great tone

The key ingredients obviously are the amps he used

A cranked Soldano is difficult to replicate but you can get close with a Pod or other decent modeler. You don't want too much gain either, just enough to crunch it up but remain clear. And the other aspect is the delay, find a mixture level that doesn't over saturate and muddle the tone. Lynch did use a lot of delay but it was never so much to make his single note passages a mess.

Watch you're eqing as well, a lot of 80's tones used a much flatter EQ than todays players.

deeppurple97
03-26-2011, 05:08 AM
Might be a dumb question, but what exactly is a "cranked" Soldano? An amp?
I also saw him using Marshall amps, and lots of other stuff....

Silky Smooth
03-26-2011, 05:20 AM
That is correct

He used a variety of amps, though most common was the Soldano and early Marshall non master volume heads. He would run them at very high volumes producing that harmonically rich power tube saturation to get his tone.

DaFjory
03-26-2011, 11:30 AM
Bah. I sincerely hope that one day tube amps and all these funky methods of getting a certain tone will be laughed at (like dial-up Internet), and every single tone ever used in the history of guitar will be available in a digital box - which will somehow sound 100% like the real thing. :p:

I'm talking instant Lynch or even Holdsworth tone in a box, at the touch of a button. Why the fuck not? This is 2011, ffs.

deeppurple97
03-27-2011, 01:34 PM
That would be cheating, it would not require any skill anymore to sound like any guitarist you like. I would laugh at some sort of box that makes you 100% sound like the programmed guitarist without yourself doing anything IMHO.

DaFjory
03-27-2011, 02:21 PM
^ Bullshit to that. There is no cheating when it comes to getting a guitar tone. You can laugh, whilst I'd be kicking ass with George Lynch tone's in a little box. ;) You just wait - in a few decades' time, only a few old farts will still be lusting after tube amps. Everyone else will have moved onto POD-like devices which can replicate any tone with 100% accuracy. Joy!

deeppurple97
03-27-2011, 03:04 PM
You can use a box like that if you want ;) , i just wanted to say that i wouldnīt use it, because of what iīve mentioned.

BTW: Isnīt there sth. like a "Lynch Box" coming out ??

DGW1
03-27-2011, 03:18 PM
Guy's I love that tone..I can get close with Fender Deville 2x12 clean ch ,Digitech x-Delay,1 Monte Allums rec mod DS-1 with the gain @2.30 Tone at 10.00 and a stock Ds-1 with the gain almost 1/2 way and tone set equally. and a DGW Contender with alnico pickups,,A Screamin Deamon in the bridge would get me a little closer..But thoes 2 pedals together do the trick. :peace:

DaFjory
03-27-2011, 03:21 PM
Guy's I love that tone..I can get close with Fender Deville 2x12 clean ch ,Digitech x-Delay,1 Monte Allums rec mod DS-1 with the gain @2.30 Tone at 10.00 and a stock Ds-1 with the gain almost 1/2 way and tone set equally. and a DGW Contender with alnico pickups,,A Screamin Deamon in the bridge would get me a little closer..But thoes 2 pedals together do the trick.

Uh, yeah......... Either that or wait a few decades for that all-in-one box to come out, which should rightfully render all that stuff useless. :p:

deeppurple97
03-27-2011, 03:31 PM
I Canīt wait for some decades! ;) But maybe there will be such a all-in-one box some day.....

DaFjory
03-27-2011, 03:56 PM
I Canīt wait for some decades! ;) But maybe there will be such a all-in-one box some day.....

Well think of it like this, in broad terms - 20 years ago could we have imagined cameras, games and Internet on a tiny mobile phone? As far as I'm concerned, anything's possible. Maybe even sooner than a few decades.

deeppurple97
03-27-2011, 04:07 PM
Thatīs true, nobody would hav even thought of mobile phoneīs in everybodyīs pockets... Weīll see...

DaFjory
03-27-2011, 05:06 PM
Any bog-standard '80s tone does it for me, though. It doesn't necessarily have to be complicated like Lynch's. I could easily go for something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgl_9ZVTQKk) (specifically at 0:11, 2:17 and 3:05) or even mildly overdriven like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYmCFLUHp7k) (0:17). Both are totally yummy. Feeeeeeel that delay and reverb, baby!

Oh yeah, and I totally love that Lee Aaron chick. She is divinity personified. http://i.imgur.com/DQ8Op.gif

deeppurple97
03-28-2011, 11:43 AM
Lee Aarons sound is also cool, doesnīt have to be complicated to sound good. Simply look at Marc Bolan ("T-Rex") he just plays around 5 chords in most of his songs, but heīs known as the "pioneer of Glam Rock".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wXT9eUBm4

Canīt see it that good, but heīs always playing the same for around five minutes ;)
In some Bands the guitarist doesnīt even know how to play guitar and theyīre very popular.

griffRG7321
03-28-2011, 12:42 PM
I'm with Dafjory on this one, I love the 80s guitar tone, soaked in reverb. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kldGUTl_Sis

I didn't care for anything Satch put out after Engines of creation.

deeppurple97
03-28-2011, 02:13 PM
Canīt see that video, if i click on the link it says "This video isnīt aviable in your country". Is there another video of this song?

griffRG7321
03-28-2011, 10:59 PM
Tony Mcalpine- Key to the city

DaFjory
03-28-2011, 11:04 PM
TMac used to always have the perfect example of that tinny, bleedy, squealy '80s tone... at least until Chromaticity, at which point he succumbed to the bland, full, fat, thick, in-your-face tone that I dislike so much (although he can make anything sound awesome).

Silky Smooth
03-29-2011, 05:14 AM
Tony's old tone reminded me a lot of Vinnie Moore, just thinner and quite a bit more reverb

DaFjory
03-29-2011, 11:16 AM
Moore had tons of reverb on Mind's Eye, but hardly any from Time Odyssey onwards. To this day I still wonder what exactly got all these guys to ditch that glorious 'down in a well' reverb. :(

Silky Smooth
03-29-2011, 03:12 PM
The digital era probably had a lot to do with it

Those kinds of sounds work so much better on analog tape were everything is warm and dynamic

Johnnie Black
04-01-2011, 10:30 AM
80s guitar tone was generally pretty rubbish.. although today's modern rock production is arguably a lot worse. But Lynch definitely had a great tone.

He's been a gear ***** - he's had a million different things and chopped and changed through all of them, and he still manages to sound like George Lynch through all of it. So I guess the moral of the story is you've got to be George Lynch. The way he holds his pick is a big part of the tone - on the side, Warren DeMartini does the same thing and you'll find the two guys don't sound radically dissimilar. And use a lot of very smooth, liquid legato. The gear is a secondary consideration.

DaFjory
04-01-2011, 12:29 PM
80s guitar tone was generally pretty rubbish.. although today's modern rock production is arguably a lot worse. But Lynch definitely had a great tone.

He's been a gear ***** - he's had a million different things and chopped and changed through all of them, and he still manages to sound like George Lynch through all of it. So I guess the moral of the story is you've got to be George Lynch. The way he holds his pick is a big part of the tone - on the side, Warren DeMartini does the same thing and you'll find the two guys don't sound radically dissimilar. And use a lot of very smooth, liquid legato. The gear is a secondary consideration.

That's something I've always strongly disagreed with. If I were to pick up George Lynch's gear and play something, I would sound like him tonally; but then, stylistically I wouldn't sound like him. Same goes with anyone's gear. If I played something on Vai's gear, I would suddenly "have the Vai tone", but obviously my playing wouldn't sound like Vai. If Vai played something on my gear, the tone would sound like shit, but he himself might still manage to sound like Vai in terms of style (although who would want to listen to Vai on a Spider II? Talk about polishing a turd...)

Moral of the story = tone is in the gear; technique in the fingers. Truth.

Johnnie Black
04-01-2011, 08:45 PM
Well that's just plainly silly. If you played through "Lynch's gear"? He's had a million different things.. and gotten much the same tone out of all of it. Moreover, there are PLENTY of other guitarists who have used substantially the same rig, and haven't had anything like his tone. SH-6 superstrats into late 70s JMP Marshalls - that's half the early 80s right there! So the idea of using his rig is not an untested theory. Tone is the fingers, and in those weird flappy things on the side of your head that hold your hair back. Gear matters too, but a lot less.

DaFjory
04-01-2011, 09:08 PM
Well that's just plainly silly. If you played through "Lynch's gear"? He's had a million different things.. and gotten much the same tone out of all of it. Moreover, there are PLENTY of other guitarists who have used substantially the same rig, and haven't had anything like his tone. SH-6 superstrats into late 70s JMP Marshalls - that's half the early 80s right there! So the idea of using his rig is not an untested theory. Tone is the fingers, and in those weird flappy things on the side of your head that hold your hair back. Gear matters too, but a lot less.

Utter bullshit. Didn't you even read my quote? There's a big difference between Lynch's technique and his tone. I can't have Lynch's technique and playing style because I'm not him, but I could certainly have his tone if I suddenly had his gear in my hands. All I'd have to do is play a few simple notes and say "Check it out, that tone sounds like Lynch!" What part of that is silly?

Johnnie Black
04-01-2011, 09:13 PM
Utter bullshit. Didn't you even read my quote? There's a big difference between Lynch's technique and his tone. I can't have Lynch's technique and playing style because I'm not him, but I could certainly have his tone if I suddenly had his gear in my hands. All I'd have to do is play a few simple notes and say "Check it out, that tone sounds like Lynch!" What part of that is silly?

All of it. Because you wouldn't have his tone at all.

DaFjory
04-01-2011, 09:15 PM
All of it. Because you wouldn't have his tone at all.

I would, though. His gear in my hands = his tone in my hands.

But not his technique. Hence, tone is in the gear.

Johnnie Black
04-01-2011, 09:18 PM
His gear in my hands = his tone in my hands.

See, that's the bit that's plainly silly. Because it's not an untested idea. He's had a similar tone out of all sorts of rigs, some of which are nothing like each other. And a LOT of people have used basically the exact same gear as him, and had nothing like his tone.

Tone is from the hands.

DaFjory
04-01-2011, 09:24 PM
People using the same rig as him? Not from what I've heard. He had all sorts of whacky customisation done, and specific methods of recording (like that bathroom thing) that I haven't heard of anyone else trying to replicate.

I say this is all a bit pointless, innit? You're saying one thing and I'm saying another, so y'know what - you're no fun, so bodge off. :p:

But yeah. Tone is in the gear, style is in the fingers.

Johnnie Black
04-01-2011, 09:27 PM
People using the same rig as him? Not from what I've heard. He had all sorts of whacky customisation done, and specific methods of recording (like that bathroom thing) that I haven't heard of anyone else trying to replicate.

I say this is all a bit pointless, innit? You're saying one thing and I'm saying another, so y'know what - you're no fun, so bodge off. :p:

But yeah. Tone is in the gear, style is in the fingers.

let's take this from another angle - who has a more Lynch-like tone: Warren DeMartini, or Randy Rhoads?

DaFjory
04-01-2011, 09:32 PM
let's take this from another angle - who has a more Lynch-like tone: Warren DeMartini, or Randy Rhoads?

Neither. DeMartini sounds like C.C. DeVille and a whole bunch of '80s hard rock bands - none of whom have that special Lynch quality to their tone - whereas Rhodes IMO has that squealy Malmsteen shit going on that I actually don't like (for a change).

Johnnie Black
04-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Neither. DeMartini sounds like C.C. DeVille and a whole bunch of '80s hard rock bands - none of whom have that special Lynch quality to their tone - whereas Rhodes IMO has that squealy Malmsteen shit going on that I actually don't like (for a change).


Okay, so you're deaf as well as wrong. Let's just drop it.

DaFjory
04-01-2011, 09:39 PM
Okay, so you're deaf as well as wrong. Let's just drop it.

Ha, speak for yourself. Like I already said, this is some pointless shit because you're obviously clinging onto your stance and I'm firmly with mine. I'm not the one throwing out the words "silly" and "deaf", so yeah - I'm fine with dropping it. Clearly our online 'paths' weren't meant to cross harmoniously. ;) Toodles.

jimejames
04-01-2011, 10:04 PM
Neither. DeMartini sounds like C.C. DeVille and a whole bunch of '80s hard rock bands - none of whom have that special Lynch quality to their tone - whereas Rhodes IMO has that squealy Malmsteen shit going on that I actually don't like (for a change).

FWIW, Randy Rhoads used pretty much the exact same setup as George Lynch did on the early Dokken records. Same tonewoods, same pickups, same amps. Very slightly different pedals. His point is clearly that they have very different tone, despite the same gear. JB is an asshole but he knows what he's talking about.

PS. saying Warren sounds like C.C or Randy like Malmsteen is just weird.

DaFjory
04-01-2011, 10:14 PM
In which case we're going into recording technique territory. Everyone has their own way of doing it (i.e. Lynch with the bathroom thing), so a bunch of guitarists using the same gear will all sound different if one has his delay all the way up, whilst the other has different mids/treble, records in a completely different type of room/hall/studio, amps miked a different way, etc. Those are huge variables. In the end, it's still tone coming from the gear. The fingers just manipulate it in a certain way which sounds recognisable as an individual style.

My main point is that if I were standing next to Lynch in the same room and he handed his gear to me, I would instantly have his tone in my hands. There is no doubt about it. My playing technique wouldn't be like his, but what comes out of the amp would sound like him. He could play a power chord, followed by me doing the same, and the tone would be identical. But then, he could play a scale in his own way and that's where the stylistic differences between us would show up. Still the same tone, though. What is so implausible about that?

Johnnie Black
04-02-2011, 03:41 AM
My main point is that if I were standing next to Lynch in the same room and he handed his gear to me, I would instantly have his tone in my hands.


:haha :haha :haha :haha

deeppurple97
04-03-2011, 05:56 AM
If youīd have Lynchīs gear, you COULD have his tone, but not 100% as heīd have.
I know, because i tried an ESP Tiger with a Marshall amp, and we (guitar teacher and myself) could get close to that tone, BUT STILL NOT HAVE LYNCHS STYLE!!!
Maybe i could learn that style, but i believe nobody would have it exactly at the point where Lynchīs gear falls into his hands.

DaFjory
04-03-2011, 06:10 AM
Close enough though, that's the main thing. You're not gonna have a Lynch tone through a clean Hughes & Kettner with no effects, but you're guaranteed to get near enough with his Soldanos and everything else under the sun.

I still don't see what's so "silly" about what I've put forth in here. If Lynch plays a single sustained note and a power chord on his rig, then hands it all over to me and I play the same thing, in sonic terms what's the result? Identical tone. Simple. That's what the gear is built to sound like. Why would it suddenly and magically change when I get my 'mere mortal' hands on it? Fingers can't change such tonal characteristics as treble/mid/bass/gain/delay/reverb/warmth. Yes, there's pick attack and dynamics, but that falls under technique - it doesn't matter how hard you pick or how soft your legato is; the gear will still possess a certain tone + whatever effects.

So then, get Lynch to play something more complex like an entire solo, followed by me doing my own. Of course something will now sound different - namely, our styles. I won't have the same technique as him in playing a series of notes, but the tonal qualities of the gear itself stay the same no matter who's playing it. In the end, anyone playing through Lynch's rig will automatically have a great tone to mess around with - but not necessarily a great style to make any use of it. Conversely, give Lynch a clean Spider II and his tone ain't gonna sound good. Sure, he'll play nice and probably 'sound' like himself to an extent, but his tone won't be recognisable as his own.



What?

deeppurple97
04-03-2011, 11:54 AM
HUGH. HE HAS SPOKEN.

I totally agree with you in that "Tone is not Style" thing.
btw: I tried how Lynchs holds the pick, and it might sound crazy, but it was a little closer to his original sound!

DaFjory
04-04-2011, 01:29 AM
I tried how Lynchs holds the pick, and it might sound crazy, but it was a little closer to his original sound!

Man, his picking hand is plain weird. I once tried to pick like he does - with my fingers all splayed out - but it just created a lot of tension. Obviously works for him, though. At speed, one can hear how it shapes his fastly picked lines.

deeppurple97
04-04-2011, 10:35 AM
Really? His picking technique worked much better for me, iīll keep using it. But there we are again at that "style of a special guitarist" question, some people like his picking technique, or whatever else makes his playing so special, and some other people would never think of using that techniques. So, the final word to that Style and tone stuff: Everybody should play how he likes, not how somebody else tells him to do. Isnīt it the own style, which makes any guitarist different than another? ;)

DaFjory
04-04-2011, 10:47 AM
^ Pretty much, but there are some guitarists whose playing I dislike because of their tone. I might find their technique great to listen to, but not their tone. I'm kinda funny like that - I would much rather listen to a shitty player with great tone, than a great player with shitty tone.

Or, to put that into perspective for this topic, I wouldn't mind hearing someone play terribly on Lynch's rig as much as Lynch playing wonderfully through a shitty rig. That's how much 'tone' means to me. Another example - Paul Gilbert's a great player, but I fucking hate his tone.

deeppurple97
04-04-2011, 01:45 PM
I could put another "Hugh He Has spoken" here, I think for example that Edward Van Halen is agreat Guitar player, but heīs not one of my favourite tone-having-guitarists, just to underline what youīve said.

Sean0913
04-06-2011, 01:18 AM
Bah. I sincerely hope that one day tube amps and all these funky methods of getting a certain tone will be laughed at (like dial-up Internet), and every single tone ever used in the history of guitar will be available in a digital box - which will somehow sound 100% like the real thing. :p:

I'm talking instant Lynch or even Holdsworth tone in a box, at the touch of a button. Why the fuck not? This is 2011, ffs.

Because you wouldn't buy it. Heck, you're still playing a Spider II!

It's a pipe dream anyways, you're never going to get that sound except in a studio under the same conditions, and even then you'd have to be listening to the end of the signal chain after it was all mixed. They couldn't even replicate that sound live. You are hearing a basically manufactured tone that couldn't be replicated, and even if it could be, then, depending upon where you were standing the tone would sound different anyways.

That's your answer. It was an artificially rendered contrived tone, that was created for the purposes of the recording media it was to be heard on.

I came up in L.A. in the 80's/90's by the way, I knew these bands. Without those bands that everyone likes to dog, most of you wouldn't be here. Every generation had influence on the next. Appreciate them, don't judge them, because you couldn't have done better for the time. You aren't enlightened, you've merely evolved from your forefathers.

Best,

Sean

deeppurple97
04-06-2011, 12:57 PM
ainīt that what weīre discussing in this thread since the first post? We already came to the conclusion, that Lynchs TONE can be imitated, if you have 100& THE SAME CONDITIONS, his style wonīt anyone have, but i think you could be abe to get close to that style, or learn it, if anbody wants to.

DaFjory
04-06-2011, 01:30 PM
Because you wouldn't buy it. Heck, you're still playing a Spider II!

Uh... correction there - I would buy it! That's the whole reason I came up with the idea. I don't want to play a Spider II, but I also don't want to spend thousands on accumulating a vast hoard of separate pieces of gear and going through a whole bunch of wacky rituals to make it all sound a certain way. Taking shortcuts in life is a wonderful, great thing and more people should do it.

And pipe dream or not, some of the best inventions in the world have started off as dreams. Like I said, I'll be the one laughing in a few decades' time when George Lynch or Allan Holdsworth's tones become purchasable in a small box. Vacuum tubes and expensive "vintage" amps will be even more obsolete than they are now, and disregarded in the same vein as Windows 95 or dial-up Internet. Pure progress.

Without those bands that everyone likes to dog, most of you wouldn't be here. Every generation had influence on the next. Appreciate them, don't judge them, because you couldn't have done better for the time. You aren't enlightened, you've merely evolved from your forefathers.

Who's dogging? In this entire topic I've stated my appreciation for the old bands and how they used to sound. With all respect, and I liked the detail of your post, but you're getting things a bit twisted here.

deeppurple97
04-06-2011, 03:59 PM
And because i like it so much another: HUGH. HE HAS SPOKEN:

DaFjory
04-06-2011, 04:25 PM
My name's not Hugh, btw. ;)

Sean0913
04-06-2011, 05:20 PM
The Spider thing was meant as a tongue in cheek remark, and in good humor :)

Your comment about the digitalization of everything is noted, but there is a very active felt counterculture for the digital one. In tape reels, turntables, vinyl, low fi and analog. More and more, people are coming to find, that the digital sphere is falling way short of the warmth of a Fairchild compressor, and the low mids of the analog tape etc. There may be some push, but what seems to be happening is that the more one advances the more likely they have been to go back to the basics. For example: from a rack effects unit, with lots of bells and whistles, to the pure tones from hands, a Simple guitar, strong pickups with character, and a tube amp.

I don't think that upward trend will continue, I think we will all soon be so inundated with the same pitch frequencies coming at us that there will be a yearning for the simpler and more natural. Its very much like a rubber band that will flex, but at some point return to equilibrium and then start over.

The idea about tone, is that it was only possible on the record, and even in the studio where it was generated, that tone changed depending upon where you were in the room. I grant you we are capable of a great many neat things, many not even conceived of in the analog world, but we will only get so close with the digital....at least in this stage of our evolution.

Put also into perspective a 5 year down turn in the musical products industry as a whole, and in the recording industry of about 10 years and counting. These numbers are not conducive toward mass amounts of far reaching R/D when more and more people are trying to find ways to cut so they can keep their bottom line just above water. With the fast approaching death of the independent retailer because of big box stores and the internet, thats even less sales that will be made, and more leverge for cost cutting demands by the big boxes, to maintain their margins.

In short, you may be waiting a long time. Line 6 and the POD HD is about as close as you are going to get, in the digital realm of modeling, and they are only barely getting the attack dynamics right...theres still a ways to go on that as well!

Best,

Sean

DaFjory
04-06-2011, 05:41 PM
^ I like your style. You know your stuff and put thought into these posts without coming across as condescending or smug, so I can only say it's been an interesting read. My pipe dream for that all-digital 'tone in a box' will live on, but I'll still bear in mind what you've said. http://i.imgur.com/497br.gif

Sean0913
04-06-2011, 08:29 PM
^ I like your style. You know your stuff and put thought into these posts without coming across as condescending or smug, so I can only say it's been an interesting read. My pipe dream for that all-digital 'tone in a box' will live on, but I'll still bear in mind what you've said. http://i.imgur.com/497br.gif

Class act, that's nice to find...enjoyed it!

:cheers:

deeppurple97
04-09-2011, 04:53 AM
@DaFjory I already guessed your nameīs not Hugh, but in germany "hugh" is used as something like, the Word or sentence to end all un-friendly disussions. Hope its understandable, didnt know how to explain it better, iīm not that good in speaking english;-)

Prophet of Page
04-10-2011, 07:00 PM
Moral of the story = tone is in the gear; technique in the fingers. Truth.

Not really, your picking technique (in particular, your picking motion and angle of attack) has an enormous effect on your tone. It's not just a sylistic difference, it's also an honest to goodness tonal difference. Picking differently gives you different overtones on the string, which changes the tone.

There is a lot of tone in the technique.

DaFjory
04-10-2011, 07:14 PM
Not really, your picking technique (in particular, your picking motion and angle of attack) has an enormous effect on your tone. It's not just a sylistic difference, it's also an honest to goodness tonal difference. Picking differently gives you different overtones on the string, which changes the tone.

There is a lot of tone in the technique.

But fundamentally, if a bunch of guitarists with otherwise differing techniques are told to smack the strings for a power chord in the same way - for the sake of demonstration - the tonal quality of what comes out of the amp is going to sound the same for everyone. Same goes for picking one note and sustaining it.

It's when multiple notes/chords are played, or when individual picking techniques are applied, that "tone in the fingers" starts to have some truth. Throughout this topic I've been talking solely about the tonal quality of one note/one chord. Give me Holdsworth's gear, let me sustain a few distorted notes, and I will have a large part of his lead tone at my disposal - but not his technique.

Prophet of Page
04-11-2011, 05:00 AM
But fundamentally, if a bunch of guitarists with otherwise differing techniques are told to smack the strings for a power chord in the same way - for the sake of demonstration - the tonal quality of what comes out of the amp is going to sound the same for everyone. Same goes for picking one note and sustaining it.

Sure, but getting two people to hit string in exactly the same way is near impossible.

It's when multiple notes/chords are played, or when individual picking techniques are applied, that "tone in the fingers" starts to have some truth. Throughout this topic I've been talking solely about the tonal quality of one note/one chord. Give me Holdsworth's gear, let me sustain a few distorted notes, and I will have a large part of his lead tone at my disposal - but not his technique.

I think Holdsworth is probably a bad example, his technique is an absolutely enormous factor in his tone. A lot of the tone he's famous for comes from his technique, both with left hand hammer-ons (and yes, I am claiming that how hard or soft you hammer affects tone) and how he picks. The timbre and decay of the strings are shaped by the way he plays them. If were to play a few notes through Holdsy's rig, even if you were just to sustain a few notes, I'm quite sure there would be a genuine tonal difference.

There are plenty of players where I'd be likely to agree with you, but that list doesn't include Allan (or Jeff Beck, Eric Johnson or a few others).

Goat Head Stew
04-12-2011, 08:31 PM
Hi Guys!

Been practicing Dokken songs lately, i tried soooo much amp settings, but i canīt get that special sound, and a friend of mine, who i thing is a quite good guitar player, couldnīt get it either. Has anyone ever had that amp setting, or guitar tuning, or whatever it might be? iīm a bit confused right now...

look forward to your answers

dp


In the early days Lynch used to use a Seymour Duncan Distortion is his guitars. It wasn't until later he started using the Screamin Demon

deeppurple97
04-13-2011, 10:59 AM
I also found out lately that "FAME" strings work very good, and seem a bit more close to the Lynch sound. iīll keep testing stuff and post how it works :)