Tarbosh and RedDeath9 - Standing Before the Precipice (GP5 + MIDI) C4C


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RedDeath9
04-24-2011, 04:28 PM
Hey, this is something that fellow UGer Tarbosh and I have been working on for the past two weeks. We'd always wondered what it would be like if our styles were put into a blender and merged... Well, two weeks ago, we spontaneously started a collab which evolved into this song. It all stemmed from that riff at 77; I had made the guitar and drums parts, and then he added the lead, and it just exploded from there.

The music was written first, and then a storyline was attached to it. Now, we've decided we're going to try to write a concept album based around this story, with this song being the climax. Kinda counterproductive that you're getting the climax first, but oh well :p:

We're pretty happy with the way the song turned out. We had a lot of fun writing this, and we hope you have just as much fun listening :cheers:

EDIT: The markers' positions from bar 1-90 aren't really important.

EDIT2: Be aware of notes getting cut off, especially during the last section.

EDIT3: Reuploaded with minor changes that no one will notice. The reason that there are two zip files is because as one, it was too big :p: Which is rather odd, because I only changed two bass notes, I'm not sure why the file size would increase so much...

EDIT4: Oh, I added in the GP4 this time. No wonder.

EDIT5: Got rid of some unwanted dissonance near the end.

EDIT6: Fixed an unintentionally offbeat thing in the "What am I?" section. Also let a string note ring out at the end. I'm not sure why I'm keeping you guys updated on the edits.

EDIT7: Just realized all but one of the tracks in the MIDI were muted :haha:

Portuguese_boy
04-24-2011, 04:39 PM
Mind = blown.

So fucking amazing, can't really find one bar I would change.

Geldin
04-24-2011, 06:17 PM
I'll give a more complete critique when I have a little more time on my hands (hopefully tomorrow). I would like to say that this is ridiculously busy at all times. I'm a fan of having a lot of different ideas, but some of this just feels over-the-top. There are some really good parts, but I'm having trouble listening to this because some parts seem to lack direction.

Like I said, I'll give a much more in-depth review some time soon (hopefully tomorrow), but that's what comes to mind right now.

HaydenHohns
04-24-2011, 06:54 PM
Wow! That was a truly spectacular piece. I have a few minor qualms/ideas that may make it better (IMO) but they don't make too much of a difference. BTW, just so I get this straight, Tarbosh does the Black Metal/Classical/Western Art style parts and RedDeath9 does the Jazz/Tech Metal stuff. I'm not familiar with your work RedDeath9 but I am familiar with Tarbosh so I'll take the time to look into your work around here if you have any. Anyway, onto my crit:

I've noticed that in a few select sections there are some brilliant use of dynamics, but other places would benefit from this. As Geldin said, there are a lot of ideas and it has a very large texture/timbre for the majority of the piece so you have to make the most of your dynamic range, make it really stretch out in terms of volume and articulation.

Track 2 (Bar 271): This seems like a rather awkward riff to play, perhaps in order to make it both easier while still being a complete aural assault on the listener, you could pan the higher and lower voicings hard left and hard right. Then add accents (>) on the higher voicings (More dynamic range as I stated earlier).

That's about all I can say, this piece reminds me mainly of Ihsahn/Emperor mixed with Cynic, Spastic Ink/Blotted Science/Watchtower with a pinch Dream Theater (As far as arrangements are concerned at least).

Overall, you've done an excellent job on this, your next challenge is to maintain this high level of composition with your future work.

I don't need any crits on my only thread (You can if you want to get it over with) but I'm working on an epic at the moment so I'll PM you when it's ready.

RedDeath9
04-24-2011, 07:14 PM
Ah, thank you for the crits guys.

@Hayden: Wow, I'm impressed that you managed to pinpoint our styles :p: It's interesting how we had to adopt the other's style while writing; for this piece, Tarbosh did it to a greater extent than I. We just think it's something important to keep in mind, if you're wondering who wrote what :p: We'll keep the thing about 271 in mind, and I agree, there is probably some polishing we could do with volumes.

EDIT: And yeah, PM me when it's done. I don't know whether it'll be me or him giving the crit.

Life Is Brutal
04-24-2011, 07:24 PM
Awesome piece, although it gets a bit cluttered at times. I understand your going for complexity and a layered sound, but sometimes themes get lost and it diminishes the sound.

I think Its awesome as is, but when writing another piece in this style, if you keep those in mind the piece could be improved considerably.

RedDeath9
04-24-2011, 07:33 PM
Hmm, would you mind telling us some specific parts that sound cluttered? Just so we can get a general idea... Also, any pieces that you'd like me/him to crit?

Life Is Brutal
04-24-2011, 08:08 PM
Cluttered probably wasn't the right word. :haha:

Although 218 and the solo parts like in 267 might be a bit cluttered between the themes.

Upon further listening there isn't much clutter, but in some places, such as at 39, you end up with themes that might've lost too much of their structure. Also, the timpani at 61 is a bit loud. If you lower the dynamic level at that bar, it could also provide some contrast for the following bars.

I also understand that in some places you are focusing on the chaos of the section, and its not supposed to be perfectly comprehensible, so I obviously left any possiible qualms about those sections out. Like at bars 81-85.

I also really like the sound that you guys get at 85-94, and reminds me of Tarbosh' Relieved of Breath at some point.

I wanted Tarbosh to take a look at some pieces that I haven't put on the forum yet, but he hasn't given me an Email I can send them to. These wouldn't be full crits, just run throughs that would say if any of the material is good. Or bad.

If you wouldn't mind... http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1435617

RedDeath9
04-24-2011, 08:32 PM
Ah, thanks. Yeah, he's banned right now, but I'll PM you his email address.

Life Is Brutal
04-24-2011, 08:38 PM
Ah, thanks. Yeah, he's banned right now, but I'll PM you his email address.

Oh. So THATS why it says "banned" as his custom user title. :haha:

JazzDeath
04-24-2011, 09:38 PM
Did he get banned for his comments on that Justin Bieber song? I got a warning for that =(

RedDeath9
04-24-2011, 10:07 PM
Aye, that's what he was banned for.

Life Is Brutal
04-24-2011, 10:14 PM
Is the thread still up?

NVMEDIT: Checked it, I don't think his was worth a ban, a warning max. And for Jazzdeath, I don't think you should've been warned at all. Albeit I also heard little to no hardcore, and it still is a "Why?" kind of thing.

JazzDeath
04-24-2011, 10:40 PM
I got a warning for spam, so that's whatever, I just think the ban is ridiculous. Either way, it's done.

Joshua1207
04-24-2011, 10:41 PM
I like the intro you got there. Kind of horrorish. I like how you guys used the 'lead' instrument things. Gives it kind of a game-like sound. I do agree with everybody else in this thread that at times you do kind of got a lot going on at once. For the most part it was layered well. I like the change in mood (kind of) that you start at bar 98. The way you have it written out some of it seems like it'd be pretty hard to play in real life though, mostly because of having to stretch too far.
I didn't like the transition to 'Darkness' too much. I mean it wasn't terrible, but it could use a little work (I'm pretty bad at transitions myself). At bar 210 the lead square riff thing was pretty cool. Bar 218 was another bad transition, I'd say. I don't care for the guitar riff at bar 267-270 at all. Just sounds ew in my opinion. Outro was pretty good. Oh, I also liked the drums throughout the song too.

This isn't my type of music at all, so my opinion probably doesn't matter too much on this, but yeah. If you could return the favor http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1435550

HaydenHohns
04-25-2011, 02:32 AM
@RedDeath9: I've been told I'm pretty smart from a mathematical and musical perspective. I divided up what the major styles and sub styles that were in it. Then after that I had about 70-80 percent of the piece, the remaining percentage being an amalgam of the two predominant styles which explains how you said the two of you tried to adapt to each others styles.

BTW, I've sent you a PM of my new thread, Pillars of Creation. You can probably find it floating around here if you check this before your messages.

Erra93
04-25-2011, 08:13 AM
Oh hello, Animals As Leaders?!

huevos
04-26-2011, 12:32 AM
Spot reserved for crit.

Oh hello, Animals As Leaders?!

I didn't hear that too much. I was thinking more Periphery with teh troo metalz!
This piece is more expansive than I imagined it would be (which say a lot). So the reservation still stands.

Geldin
04-26-2011, 04:43 PM
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you. Having listened to the song again, I have returned to comment on it only to find that Life if Brutal and Hayden have said everything I wanted to.

There are good ideas, but arrangement doesn't take full advantage of the sonic palette you've given yourself.

RedDeath9
05-06-2011, 03:41 AM
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you guys, I'd been kinda busy with finals and then moving back home. I've critted Joshua's and LIB's piece; I'll hopefully get to Hayden's tomorrow.

Thank you all for the crits by the way :cheers:

kylendm
05-06-2011, 12:30 PM
holy flipping ****.

amazing

DiminishedFifth
06-01-2011, 10:20 PM
I'm gonna reserve a spot for this, it's quite a lot to take in all at once. I'll say a couple things before I get started though:

1) Reminds me a lot of |_JR_|'s pieces
2a) It has a VERY unique sound, even though I said the above
--- 2b) I want this sound
3) I love it, but there are some things I saw (I'll get to those when I listen to it more).

guitar_jew
06-06-2011, 05:04 AM
Holy balls. I have only two complaints about this, and only one of them is actually valid and not subjective.

The first is that my attention span doesn't agree with the 9:29 clock-in.

The second is that 'Escaping' doesn't transition well at ALL to 'Darkness.' Other than that, all the sections are great, definitely a pleasure to listen to in 3 minute intervals. All kidding aside, the piece doesn't lose momentum or do anything really to lose the listener's attention.

By this, I'm thoroughly embarassed to ask for C4C on really anything I've done, so I won't. :P

Tarbosh
06-06-2011, 05:31 AM
Holy balls. I have only two complaints about this, and only one of them is actually valid and not subjective.

The first is that my attention span doesn't agree with the 9:29 clock-in.

The second is that 'Escaping' doesn't transition well at ALL to 'Darkness.' Other than that, all the sections are great, definitely a pleasure to listen to in 3 minute intervals. All kidding aside, the piece doesn't lose momentum or do anything really to lose the listener's attention.

By this, I'm thoroughly embarassed to ask for C4C on really anything I've done, so I won't. :P

Not to be a dick, but technically both of those are subjective :haha:

What exactly do you think is the problem with the transition?

Really, though, thanks for the crit, and same to everyone else.

guitar_jew
06-06-2011, 08:33 AM
Not to be a dick, but technically both of those are subjective :haha:

What exactly do you think is the problem with the transition?



1. I guess you're right. Subjective wasn't the right word; I suppose I meant to distinguish between my personal problem actively listening to long pieces in one go and my only qualm with the music itself. This explanation probably wasn't necessary, but meh.

Off the top of my head, the transition was too immediate between two heavily contrasting ideas, and executed in a manner that took away from the work rather than added to it, IMO.

juckfush
07-12-2011, 11:56 PM
Thanks to Tarbosh for the fantastic critique in my thread, and to RedDeath9 for starting out what's become an absolutely phenomenal piece of music.

What really catches me as being both peculiar and enticing is that the melodic approaches here are so unorthodox and unconventional, yet somehow make a lot of sense. I remember reading a comment in one of |_JR_|'s threads along the lines of ''none of this should make any theoretical sense, but it works'', and while I can see the basic foundations of some of the approaches featured here, trying to comprehend how the hell you guys write like this is beyond me. :p:
I've got to say, this collaboration between you to was a match made in heaven - or daydream? You've both got such distinct styles of writing, but somehow they've melded together to create this perfect unity. So in advance, a massive kudos and thanks for writing such a creative and downright inspiring piece of music.

Throughout the piece, there's a strong visual image, which the section markers lend themselves well to. I'm seeing a character in a sort of distorted world, which is malleable like water, sort of like if you looked out a window drenched in rain, and everything outside becomes refracted and distorted. The whole world's black-and-white, and the big thing I'm picturing is the world around this character transforming into some haunting but awe-inspiring amalgamation of oddities, like seams splitting the air and releasing new materials, or inanimate objects morphing into lumbering monsters of sorts. I think the instruments themselves allude to this concept of growth or bizarre change with their complimentary lines and strong counterpoints, coupled with the frantic pace throughout. I can sure for certain that I'd love to see a short film with this as the sole soundtrack and audio - hell, I'd pay big money to see that or even fund it (Once I have some money, of course)!

One thing that really grabs my attention is that despite the piece being so densely layered with multiple voices, complex harmonies and modulations, erratic rhythms and instrumental soling, it never feels cluttered, and somehow not only maintains, but develops intensity throughout, and I just don't get how. :haha:
What was the writing process like for each of you? Did you start out with basic ideas to expand the structure and orchestrate from there, or did you go all-out, perfecting each instrumental part with the perfect voicings, rhythms and the like, and add them in? Was this written chronologically? Everything just flows so sensibly and in such a mature that I can't help but be marveled by it.

I honestly don't know what to offer in the way of actual critique, since I love everything I've heard (all seven times I've listened), and nothing stuck out as jarring or out of place. I suppose if I can offer anything, it's that this - themes, developments, mood, the lot - reminded me a lot of A Triggering Myth and Kaipa, but orchestrated much more effectively.

Is the concept still underway? You guys have got to PM me once the new pieces are out, and hopefully I can actually offer something constructive other than the materials for a longer e-peen.

Again, a fantastic composition from the both of you, and something I'll be checking my bookmarks specifically for. I'm sure that I can offer something more constructive if there's something particularly you're after help on, but I can't spot anything myself. Be sure to PM me if there's anything!

:cheers:

mulefish
07-13-2011, 05:10 AM
The only criticism I have of this is that it crashed my guitar pro at bar 170 :haha:

RedDeath9
10-17-2011, 09:03 PM
Throughout the piece, there's a strong visual image, which the section markers lend themselves well to. I'm seeing a character in a sort of distorted world, which is malleable like water, sort of like if you looked out a window drenched in rain, and everything outside becomes refracted and distorted. The whole world's black-and-white, and the big thing I'm picturing is the world around this character transforming into some haunting but awe-inspiring amalgamation of oddities, like seams splitting the air and releasing new materials, or inanimate objects morphing into lumbering monsters of sorts. I think the instruments themselves allude to this concept of growth or bizarre change with their complimentary lines and strong counterpoints, coupled with the frantic pace throughout. I can sure for certain that I'd love to see a short film with this as the sole soundtrack and audio - hell, I'd pay big money to see that or even fund it (Once I have some money, of course)!

Wow, it's good to know that we were successful in creating that image. The character is lucid dreaming, manipulating his dream world to his liking. He does this very often, using it as an escape from reality. I'm very glad that you got that image.

Also, that really means a lot, haha :o Thanks.

One thing that really grabs my attention is that despite the piece being so densely layered with multiple voices, complex harmonies and modulations, erratic rhythms and instrumental soling, it never feels cluttered, and somehow not only maintains, but develops intensity throughout, and I just don't get how. :haha:
What was the writing process like for each of you? Did you start out with basic ideas to expand the structure and orchestrate from there, or did you go all-out, perfecting each instrumental part with the perfect voicings, rhythms and the like, and add them in? Was this written chronologically? Everything just flows so sensibly and in such a mature that I can't help but be marveled by it.

Well, you know how the song started out. From that point, not very much of the song was constructed linearly. For example, the first riffs we wrote don't show up until bar 77 and 90. Also, the climax of the song was one of the first things written :p: (and all by Daniel). In the end, I believe we had tons of sections and riffs, and we had to manipulate them to fit the overall feeling of the song. Then, we had to glue it all together. In fact, I think from 29-98, we were merely trying to connect the intro to the verse :haha: So no, it was not written chronologically. In order to tie everything together though, we revisited many themes. A lot of the riffs were based on earlier (or later) themes used in the song, e.g. the string thing at 45 was based on the verse riff, 69 is based on the riff following it (77), 90 is based on Darkness at 152. That's not to say it was all written out of order though - 128 to 143 was written all at once.

As for the writing process... Gah... Well, we would send ideas back and forth to each other and give our opinions on them. If the idea was good, and it directly followed another completed part of the song, it was added onto and perfected. Sometimes though, the idea was saved for later or scrapped. Sometimes, one person would perfect the idea himself before sending it (Daniel with the climax :P though we did end up editing that a tiny bit). We'd both act editor to the other's ideas, and it worked out quite well. It really was the ultimate exercise in perfection. I'm not sure if I'm answering your questions. :p:

Is the concept still underway? You guys have got to PM me once the new pieces are out, and hopefully I can actually offer something constructive other than the materials for a longer e-peen.

Um, well... We haven't actually collaborated on anything since SBtP, but we want to start one again soon. We've been throwing ideas around.

Thanks for the crit :cheers: Comment. Whatever. Appreciated, either way.

FrauVfromPoB
10-17-2011, 11:33 PM
Ballin'. It really doesn't seem to busy, but looking at the gp file, it looks like it should, which means you did a great job harmonizing everything. I like how there are som subtly recurring themes through out. If Bal-Sagoth and Charles Mingus had a scary-ass baby, this is what it would sound like.