Synthetic Symbiosis (GP5/4, MIDI), C4C.


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HaydenHohns
10-01-2011, 05:24 AM
Another short Prog/Fusion/Tech Metal composition (About 3:51 Now). Influences are primarily Cynic, Nevermore/Jeff Loomis, Ouroboros, Daath, Angra, Guthrie Govan and Annihilator. This will be the final song on the album, hence the fade-out at the end. It also makes use of a 9/8-4/4 polymeter and harmonic superimposition, which I thought was pretty cool. I think it's too busy for its own good at certain sections but we'll see what follows. Hope you all enjoy, and I'm happy to C4C.

DaddyTwoFoot
10-03-2011, 02:35 PM
To be honest, mostly nonsensical with no discernible themes. Too "proggy" for its own good.

The K, L, and M chord progressions are fantastic though. I wish you'd spend a bit more time writing riffs instead of widdly-diddlies over chords.

FrauVfromPoB
10-04-2011, 09:42 PM
Started out really good, with tasteful use of unconventional chords and harmonies, and riff C, as well as its later variation, and the ending, were easily the best parts of the whole thing. I have to agree with DaddyTwoFoot at some parts though, that there's too much going on. I think most of it was due to the bass. There's too many notes, and they don't all seem to play nicely with the rest of the guitar parts. Measures 57-66-ish in particular are dense and dissonant in a way that breaks the flow and takes away from the more melodic focus of the rest of the song. Also, personal preference, but I hate the way those fast scales/arpeggios with dissonant harmonies sound. Bands seem to do that a lot these days, with the only purpose to be to prove that they can sweep.

Anyway, I give it a positive rating overall.

JazzDeath
10-06-2011, 10:02 AM
Well, was that ever wanky!

I say that in the most endearing sense of the word because definitely, the best part of the song was in most part the guitar leads, I would have to say they are very tasteful and most of the time they sound great.

I would disagree heavily with the previous poster though in the sense that I don't think it's overly "Proggy", on the contrary I don't think it's "Progressive" enough.

The themes generally went by so fast, without any sort of thematic development, that although I leave the song with a general sense of "That was pleasant to listen to" I don't so much leave it with a sense of "Man, so-and-so section was really kickass!" It all passes by in a blur and, although perhaps that was the idea behind the piece, it does seem to be lacking a bit in that regard nonetheless.

The intro is very Cynic-influenced, I can see that riffing influence all over the song, I would indeed consider this mostly a mix of Cynic type riffing with Nevermore-ish leads overtop of a lot of it.

Ah.

I'm listening a second time and here's my second opinion about my previous comment. The first section all the way up to I follows up very well and flows well, it has a general sense of direction and flow and I enjoy it very much, and then after that it kind of ends up losing its focus when section I comes around because you introduce a section and then cut it off so quickly it never has time to sink in before you return to the previous idea.

Afterwards the section L and on sounds amazing, but it really comes off as a Mid-piece section and before you know it the song ends and it fades out.

Overall I think the song has great ideas, great leads, but is lacking in proper pacing, some of the themes introduced cut off way too quickly, and lacking of proper hooks.

I'd say the best hook in the piece is the lead that appears at 26, but even then it's so short and it's only one little lead section that the effect in the overall piece is barely noticeable.

Also for Section I, you switch moods and there are no longer any leads, but the rhythm guitar remains at a very low volume, it feels out of place because of it.

I wouldn't suggest removing it, I would suggest expanding upon it and letting it breathe, and I would suggest expanding the section where the clean part begins, and then adding another theme that would serve as an outro afterwards.

That's just my two cents. There are cool ideas here, the execution as a song is what comes off lacking.

C4C? Check out my song Degraded Aesthetics (http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1485701)

If anything you can rip me a new one and say it sucks to vent ;)

HaydenHohns
10-07-2011, 04:18 AM
@DaddyTwoFoot: The first part of your post I have no problem with but there are most certainly discernible themes. Did you even listen to the piece? Your post also lacks any constructive criticism, hence I'm going to ignore what you've said there.

@FrauVfromPoB: I'm sure I understand what you mean by Bass. You may have to explain it a little differently. The dissonant sweeps were purely musical/mathematical choice due to a previous song which will segue into this one. If I were proving I could sweep, then it would be completely 7 string, multiple-tapping and twice that speed. Just sayin'. Glad you enjoyed it for the most part.

@JazzDeath: Wow! To receive a critique from one of the writers here whom I deeply admire... and I didn't even come to you first! Just thought I'd say I love your control of atmosphere and melody (All the weird Jazzy/Fusion-influenced Metal you write that is).

Thanks for the comments on the leads. I think there is more of a fusion influence than Jeff Loomis but to compare my own work to his is a compliment I take very seriously.

I've been having trouble with the length of my music a lot lately. However, I'm also under the impression that I've already showed vast amounts of Thematic/Musical development as each riff/section is varied from when it is previously heard. Even the Harmonic Minor solo section (F) is a variation of the Intro, then modulated modally to suit the new atmosphere. Anyway, if you could give me a song/composition recommendation and some specifics about it that leads to better musical development, I'm all ears for it. I listen to a lot of styles so don't feel restricted as to what comes to mind. I've also extended the Intro but that was before you critted, so it probably won't address your concerns, but you may find it worth listening to anyway.

BTW, I have nothing against any harsh criticism. I'll do my best to give you a decent critique.

JazzDeath
10-07-2011, 10:36 AM
Nonono, there is plenty of thematic and musical development, from section A all the way to section I that stuff when it comes to song flow is all right. There are a couple fine points I would pick at but give me a second to get to that.

What I meant is that when part (I) comes in I wish it would take the time to settle in and get to know the listener before leaving again. Like you drop off the mood, start up this cool, metal-ish type of riff, lots of diminished, and then suddenly you're back out of that mood and it becomes kind of a lost moment. I would elaborate on that section so that it lasts, well, at least a minute, perhaps make a modification of the riff and add some leads on top of it, either way.

Let me try to make the points I was making a bit more concise -

From A to the end of I it flows well.
The riff at C is amazing, I love those backing chords, they sound epic
The little hook at section D, very catchy and memorable.

Section I sounds good but it's too short for its own good in the song
Part L sounds amazing, that's a real cool clean guitar ditty. It doesn't sound like the end of the song though, it feels too soon.

Overall, Generally positive and has potential, but the flow of the piece is broken by the length of the mid-section and the ending.

Also a couple minute details.

The chords at 25 should resolve the previous notes a bit better, instead of being just basic powerchords, at least resolve the mid voice because it dissapears and it sounds like there's a gap in the soundscape.

And afterwards at 29 it would be cool if you had a rising guitar line that would lead out of your hook, to make it flow out better.

Just my 2 cents, again ;). Thanks for the crit bro, I'm really glad someone enjoyed the song :D

DaddyTwoFoot
10-07-2011, 11:29 AM
@DaddyTwoFoot: The first part of your post I have no problem with but there are most certainly discernible themes. Did you even listen to the piece? Your post also lacks any constructive criticism, hence I'm going to ignore what you've said there.

@FrauVfromPoB: I'm sure I understand what you mean by Bass. You may have to explain it a little differently. The dissonant sweeps were purely musical/mathematical choice due to a previous song which will segue into this one. If I were proving I could sweep, then it would be completely 7 string, multiple-tapping and twice that speed. Just sayin'. Glad you enjoyed it for the most part.

@JazzDeath: Wow! To receive a critique from one of the writers here whom I deeply admire... and I didn't even come to you first! Just thought I'd say I love your control of atmosphere and melody (All the weird Jazzy/Fusion-influenced Metal you write that is).

Thanks for the comments on the leads. I think there is more of a fusion influence than Jeff Loomis but to compare my own work to his is a compliment I take very seriously.

I've been having trouble with the length of my music a lot lately. However, I'm also under the impression that I've already showed vast amounts of Thematic/Musical development as each riff/section is varied from when it is previously heard. Even the Harmonic Minor solo section (F) is a variation of the Intro, then modulated modally to suit the new atmosphere. Anyway, if you could give me a song/composition recommendation and some specifics about it that leads to better musical development, I'm all ears for it. I listen to a lot of styles so don't feel restricted as to what comes to mind. I've also extended the Intro but that was before you critted, so it probably won't address your concerns, but you may find it worth listening to anyway.

BTW, I have nothing against any harsh criticism, as I know you and FrauVfromPoB actually listened to the piece and had genuine opinions about it. I'll do my best to give you a decent critique.
Right, my post is short, but lacking anything constructive is ridiculous. I complimented you on your excellent choice of chord progressions, and the "lack of discernible themes" (which I admit, listening back, was overreaching) is constructive criticism. It clearly means that you need to work on the structure of the piece. I should have spent some more time on that post, but I'm a college student and at the time only had a minute before heading off to class.

When I have some more time (which could be a few days) I'll try to give you a better crit, but don't ignore the old one.

As for the bolded, please, grow up. :rolleyes: I listened to the piece and I have my thoughts. I didn't expand on them, but it is "genuine" as you put it.

HaydenHohns
10-07-2011, 05:03 PM
@JazzDeath: Thank you very much for the response. That's very clear criticism. I'll try extending that section and a few others now in hopes that the transition and atmosphere are more coherent.

@DaddyTwoFoot: Why did you discuss themes when you meant structure? Remember the internet has a mystical power which can make certain statements be interpreted as others and an opening statement has more power than the rest of any other sentence in a body of text. I'll take back what I said but why do you bother having a half-hearted critique in no time when you should be waiting to spend a lot of time on a decent critique? We never would have had this argument. But let's put this behind us as young and mature adults.

PS: You could have made a decent crit with that last response. Just sayin'.