Mode Question


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thatguy
06-27-2005, 05:05 AM
Say i want a solo that has a specific sound to it that a certain mode can cater for, would i play the relative mode or the same key with the different mode? say i was playing a song in Cmaj, but i wanted a sad sounding solo, should i use the Cmin scale or the relative minor aka Amin. I forgot what the proper flash mode names were for these two examples...

Punkarse
06-27-2005, 05:23 AM
Well, using a minor mode over a C major progression would clash quite horribly. Using lydian or mixolydian would get you a modal sound and (depending on the chords) should fit with the progression, and Aminor or D dorian should also work, but because these scales contain the same notes you need to really hammer home your resolutions to secure your D dorian tonality in a C major progression. If you really want a minor modal sound to a solo, you need to modulate away from C major, though.

thatguy
06-28-2005, 03:01 AM
Umm, i dont think you understood - that was just an example. what i mean was should i use like D dorian over it or C Dorian (D dorian because it is relative to the Cmaj?

So what im sayin is when you play a solo in a different mode do you keep the same key (in this case C) or find the relative key for that mode (ie - Cmaj = D dorian)

pavan
06-28-2005, 03:49 AM
Change the key.
Or change the chord progression. whatever is necessary.
Just make sure that notes from the mode dont sound alien to the chord progression.

It wouldn't make any sense to play F# over an F.


And if you play A minor over C Major, it still sounds like C Major.

Corwinoid
06-28-2005, 03:51 AM
It's relative to either the overall key, or the current harmonic unit.

For instance, over the progression C-Dm-G-Am-Dm-G, I might play everythink in C major, or I might play it all in G mixo. Or I might play C maj, D dorian, G mixo, C maj, D minor, C maj over each chord. Or I might play C maj, D minor, G lydian, A dorian, D dorian, G mixo. Or a host of other options.

Generally you'll find groupings of chords that will work well together, say in the progression: C-Dm-G-Em-A-B-Em-F-G-C, we can see that we're not staying in one key, but the progression makes sense (somewhat); you could play in C for two or three measures, then switch to G/Em for four or five measures, then at F come back to something in C.

You can group these concepts, using the same progression:
{C maj, D dorian, G mixo}, {E minor, A major, B mixo, E phrygian}, {F harmonic major (b6), G mixo, C major}.

Here I've grouped the tonal groupings so you can see, I'm starting in all modalities of C, but switching it up as I go, then I'm switching to tonalities relative to E minor, building the A and B major derivitaves from the idea of E melodic minor, and then dropping all the way down to E phrygian--this doesn't get grouped with the last section, back to tonalities based on C, because the idea is that it's still a minor tonality based on E. For the last three measures, I go back to major tonalities relative to C, with a big leap for the first measure of the group, the F harmonic major run is pretty much pulled out of nowhere, because I want to, and I can (it's a major scale, over a major chord). I want to end that measure on the Db, *BUT* I don't want to end the line on Db; it'll sound cool as hell when that Db shifts up to D over the G, and I've given myself a full leading tone to the fifth (this works better in an inside voicing, where the clash fo the Db and G in consecutive harmonies isn't as apparent).

Grouping chords in tonal centers like this, especially over repeated phrases, can be really useful--generally any relatively limited set of chords can be played in multiple keys (there are few exceptions); grouping up your chords and then figuring out what different keys those can be played in can be really useful for playing over it differently the second time.

For instance: |: C-Dm-Am-F :| x4
That can be played in either C or F major, as a perfectly acceptable progression--so over each reptition I might play:
C major - D dorian-A minor-F lydian (these are 'automatic' changes)
C lydian - D minor - A phrygian - F major
C major - Dminor - A minor - F major
C lydian - D dorian - A phrygian - F lydian

Or any other host of combinations, modulating between modes relative to those keys.

Drop other notes in the bass to change the tonality; and you multiply your options even further. The bass note completely changes the complexion of a chord, often extending it into a polychord, ie. in the case of say G/C, where the overall tonality is C9. Here, over this single chord, we can play _any_ major tonality of G, or any tonality of C that has the perfect fifth and minor 7th (TBH, both the 7th and the 9th are actually optional, but they become avoid notes in most places if they clash--the 2nd really isn't that important though, and the m9 passing tone is sometimes ok here).

thatguy
06-28-2005, 04:17 AM
Umm ok, that still hasnt answered my question, its quite basic really...

Let me say it again... Say i want to play a solo using the dorian scale over a Cmaj progression ie C Em Am F. Would i use C dorian? or would i use D Dorian as it has all the same notes as Cmaj?

Corwinoid
06-28-2005, 04:24 AM
^ If you read my post, that's exactly what I explained.

In fact, if you bothered to read the first ****ing sentence, it would be instantly apparent to you what the answer to that question is.

Corwinoid
06-28-2005, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by Corwinoid
It's relative to either the overall key, or the current harmonic unit.


Here, let me say it twice even, just so there's no ****ing confusing:

IT'S RELATIVE TO THE ****ING KEY.

This has been a public service announcment for Hooked On Phonics (http://www.hop.com/)