# Need your opinion... Once again.

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Dyuha
09-14-2005, 12:37 PM
user: sito
Harmonization and intervals.

* Learn how to harmonize with your guitar, and if you want, 2 guitars. This lesson shows you step by step the geometric location of intervals. *

Hello and welcome the lesson on how to harmonize on your guitar or with even two guitars if you are in a band. Harmonizing is a skill that is great to learn. Don't assume that this lesson will be tough to figure out just because it seems long. I designed this lesson for begginers who want to learn how to harmonize on their guitar, or with two guitars.

Now there are many great guitarists out there who like to harmonize using two guitarists. You can do that once you know how to harmonize on your guitar. Anyway, let the lesson begin!

What is it?

The very first thing you should do is know (you have to meomorize them) the 7 modes of the major scale.

This is the C major scale:

Here are the seven modes of the C major scale, or C ionian.
They are:

Ionian: C to C Major sound
Dorian: D to D Minor sound
Phrygian:E to E Minor sound
Lydian: F to F Major sound
Mixolydian: G to G Major sound
Aolian: A to A Minor sound
Locrain: B to B Minor sound

Later on in this lesson you will notice that the intervals (harmonies) will say minor or major before them. For example, minor 3rd. When you see this, you can look at the modes to see which ones say minor sound. Then you can chose one of the modes that say minor sound and play the fist and third note of that mode.

(i.e.) I will chose the Dorian (minor sound)D to D. D E F . I will want to chose D and F together since I want to chose the first and the third note of the dorian (minor sounding) mode.

The Major and minor 2nd intervals

These intervals are rarely used for harmonization. I never really use them. Anyway, the major intervals can only be on the major sounding modes and the minor intervals can only be used on the minor sounding modes exept for the Aolian modes and some other modes. You will see why.

Here is the major and minor second intervals:

Major Second Minor Second
------------------ -------------------
------------------ -------------------
------------------ -------------------
------------------ -------------------
------------------ -------------------
----2----4-------- ------2---3--------

Now these 2nd intervals can be used anywhere, but they are confusing and really dont need to be learned. The seconds dont sound nice at all, and thats why learning the seconds are almost pointless. But its better to show you so that you know what seconds are.
But all the other intervals are very important to learn. Like the minor 3rd for example.

The major and minor thirds

This is the most commonly used interval in my opinion.It also sounds nice. Here are the minor and major 3rds. There is a place on the strings where you have to play it in a different way:

Major 3rd Major 3rd Minor 3rd Minor 3rd
---------- ----------- ----------- ------------
---------- ----2------ ----------- -------1----
---------- ----2------ ----------- -------2----
--------2- ----------- ------1---- ------------
--------3- ----------- ------3---- ------------
---------- ----------- ----------- ------------

Perfect Fourths
As you can see, this interval is called a perfect fourth. The reason for that is that all the fourth notes of the seven modes are the same interval. In other words there is no such thing as the minor and major fourth. But, again you have to play it a different way when wanting to play it on the strings indicated to the right. So here it is:

Perfect Fourth Perfect Fourth
----------- ------------
----------- -------3----
----------- -----2------
-----3----- ------------
-----3----- ------------
----------- ------------

A very famous song uses these intervals. The song is "Smoke on the Water".

Perfect and flat 5ths

The perfect fifth is also known as a powerchord. This is very commonly used in music because they are easy to use just like the perfect fourth. The flat fifth is a dimished sound, and is self explanitory.

Perfect Fifth Perfect Fifth Flat Fifth Flat Fifth
-------------- ---------- -------- -------
-------------- ---4------ -------- ----4--
-------------- --1------- -------- -2-----
------4------- ---------- --4----- -------
-----2-------- ---------- --3----- -------
-------------- ---------- -------- -------

Minor and Major 6ths

The minor and major sixths are also commonly used, but not used as much as the thirds or perfect fifths. They are used in normal chords, and are used a lot in jazz music. When you play it, you have to mute the string in between (the one that shouldnt be sounded) with your index finger. There are three different positions you have to learn for each minor and major 6th interval.

Minor 6th Minor 6th Minor 6th Major 6th Major 6th Major 6th
----------- ------ -----2---- ---------- -------- -----3---
----------- ---2-- ---------- ---------- ----3--- ---------
-------1--- ------ -----3---- -------2-- -------- -----3---
----------- ---3-- ---------- ---------- ----3--- ---------
-------3--- ------ ---------- -----3---- -------- ---------
----------- ------ ---------- ---------- -------- ---------

Minor and Major 7ths

These are the second to last intervals I want to show you. They are not common in music, but are sometimes used as powerchords like the major and minor sixths are. The major seventh interval is used in one of the songs by the Smashing Pumpkins. Like the major and minor sixths, you need to learn 3 different positions for each minor and major 7th intervals.

Minor 7th Minor 7th Minor 7th Major 7th Major 7th Major 7th
--------- ---------- -----4---- ---------- --------- -----4-
--------- ---4----- ---------- ---------- ---4----- -------
----3---- --------- ----3---- -----4---- --------- -----2-
--------- ---3----- ---------- ---------- --2------ -------
---3----- --------- ---------- ----3----- --------- -------
--------- --------- ----------- ---------- --------- -------

Octaves

This is the last and simplist interval there is. I call it perfect octave. Its really simple to memorize. I dont think that this is part of harmonizing, but I wanted to include it anyway.

Octave Octave Octave
--------- ------ -4--
--------- --4--- ----
----4---- ------ -1--
--------- --1--- ----
----2---- ------ ----
--------- ------ ----

Conclusion

The most important things you need to know:

1. A scale has seven modes in it. When you want to play intervals on a scale in order, you are actually playing the intervals if the seven modes of that scale.
2. The minor and major intervals on a major scale go in order like this:
Major Minor Minor Major Major Minor Major Major ect.
3. The perfect fourths, fifths, flat fifths, and octaves dont have minor or major intervals. Therefore they can be played the same way on the scale without changing their position. The other ones can't.
4.Most intervals have to be played in different positions on different strings.
5. Some Intervals can be played as powerchords.
6. If you want to harmonize on two guitars, let one guitar play a note of that interval and the other guitar play the other note.
I hope that this lesson taught you just about everything that you needed to know about how to harmonize. It took a lot of time to make this lesson, but i think that it should really help a lot of people understand how vital hamonizing is in music.

=========================================

The others are attached.
:cheers:

SilentDeftone
09-14-2005, 01:00 PM
Ionian: C to C Major sound
Dorian: D to D Minor sound
Phrygian:E to E Minor sound
Lydian: F to F Major sound
Mixolydian: G to G Major sound
Aolian: A to A Minor sound
Locrain: B to B Minor sound

What the hell is he talking about here? And B would be diminished, not minor.

Anyway, the major intervals can only be on the major sounding modes and the minor intervals can only be used on the minor sounding modes exept for the Aolian modes and some other modes. You will see why.I'm going to love to see him justify why Aeolian is an exception.

Now these 2nd intervals can be used anywhere, but they are confusing and really dont need to be learned. The seconds dont sound nice at all, and thats why learning the seconds are almost pointless.Bull****. They're important.

The rest of his lesson is kind of detached from itself, he's not really fully explaining.

I myself wrote a similar lesson at http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/guitar_techniques/counterpoint_explained_contrapuntal_motion.html . I'd reject this one.

If it's okay, I'll look through the other attached 3 in more detail later. Probably tomorrow I'll post about them :)

-SD :dance:

Dyuha
09-14-2005, 01:22 PM
Ok, thanks. :cheers:

The_Strat_Man
09-14-2005, 04:05 PM
For the last lesson you should remove the P.S. part about mind altering drugs.

SilentDeftone
09-15-2005, 01:46 PM
The first lesson isn't bad, especially with the examples. In my opinion it should be an article or in Guitar Gurus. I'd accept it.

****************

The second one has some odd ideas about theory. I'll be quoting the stuff that looks weird.

(NOTE: This is the normal blues scale. Guitarists often omit the b5 from the scale for playability reasons.)What? It's easy to play the b5 tone, that is just wrong.

The initial ëSet of Chordsí is as follows:

1 = minor
2 = MAJOR & minor
b3 = MAJOR & minor
4 = MAJOR
b5 = augmented & diminished
5 = minor
6 = diminished
b7 = MAJORWhat? Generally the b5 tone is used as a passing tone. Certainly you wouldn't form a chord off of it, that (to me) sounds sort of silly. The primary tones of the blues scale are 1 4 & 5.

In the key of E, G# is the natural third note, and D# is the natural seventh note. Taking these two notes and creating a chord using the Blues Mode we get the following:His chords are correct, but what the **** is he talking about? Creating chords from the "blues mode"?

This guy is attempting to explain ideas of key modulation with his overly chromaticized self-named "blues mode".

Beatallica has written a lesson on a similar idea; it was never submitted as a lesson but was Archived instead. It can be found at http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127995

I don't know about this one, seems a little out of whack. To be honest it might just be something I haven't run across yet. You might want to ask Cas or Beat about this one, because some of the ideas presented make me go: :wtf:

******************

As for the 3rd lesson, the first diagram is wrong, should start on A not G#.

It kind of shows us examples of these scales but doesn't tell us how to properly use them.

It also just tells us what a bunch of effects sound like, we have that in the Guitar Gear FAQ. Also explains basic techniques that have more in-depth lessons.

All in all, it doesn't really teach me to play like I was in the 60s. With some work it could be a good lesson, has potential but I don't think it's quite there yet.

-SD :dance:

casualty01
09-15-2005, 02:10 PM
dude, I'm telling you. the whole thing is garbage. trash it. really, don't put that up on this site.

oh, and that's only after reading the first bit that dyuha posted. I'm sure the rest is fucked too.

Cas-:peace:

casualty01
09-15-2005, 02:33 PM
ok... just STARTED reading the 2nd one.

garbage.

--------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------3---
------------------------0---------------2---
-------3----------------2---------------0---
-------3----------------3---------------1---
-------1----------------2---------------0---
Power Chord D Chord C Chord

wtf? apparently he just likes to throw the numbers anywhere on the tab lines...

"One more thing that is common in all his acoustic songs is that he uses distortion
for a powerful last chorus/outro."

what?? no he doesn't ... I'll list half a dozen acoustic tunes where he never uses a
pinch of distortion.

1.c) EARLY SOLOS

"Okay, In his earlier solos, they were pretty bluesy and usually had some palm muting
or some chords in them. (Usually double-stop chords.)"

no such thing as doule stop chords... it's either a double stop or a chord... one is
2 notes, the other is 3.

2.) THE LATER STAGES
In the latter of Slash?s performing years, he uses lots of ?Drop-D? Tuning. For those
of you who don?t know, that?s when you put your low-E String down 2 steps. That means,
when you play, you can make a power-chord by just playing a straight chord.

this one is pure brilliance... first off Drop D is accomplished by dropping down ONE step,
not two. the guy doesn't know the difference between a "step" and "2 frets pitch distance" ...

also... wtf is a straight chord? answer: no such thing. it's a physical description that
should've been explained as "a power chord is now accomplished by simply barring across the
bottom 2 or 3 strings" ... not "just play a straight chord"

Slash uses lots more appregiating, or individually strumming, his chords in his later acoustics.

arpeggiating is spelled wrong, and ... wtf? "individually strumming the chords" ?? arpeggiating
is the act of NOT strumming, but rather picking the notes seperatly while letting them ring. he
also did this alot on his first record, has nothing to do with "later works"

2.c) LATER SOLOS
A lot of his solos are pretty similar now, but his speed has significantly increased, either that
or he was hiding something. (Smart move!)

his solos were pretty similar back in the day... his speed never "increased" from record to record...
infact his fastest solo to date is still paradise city. record #1.

3.) MISCELANEOUS
Here?s where I?m gonna add a couple things I didn?t have time to cover.
Slash has a lot of Unorthodox riffs, and I?ll list a few of them.
EXAMPLE:

Superhuman, Intro
|-----------------------------------------------|
|----13----15----15-13----13----15----12--18----|
|-----------------------------------------------|
|-12----12----12-------12----12----12-----------|
|-----------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------|

EXAMPLE:

Mr. Brownstone, Main Riff
e|---------------------------------|---------------------------------|
b|---------------------------------|-3p2p0---------------------------|
g|-------------------------2-------|-------2p0-----------------------|
d|-------------------------2-------|-----------2p0---------2---------|
a|-------2p0---------------0-------|---------------2p0-----2---------|
e|-0-3-4-----0-3-4-0---3-4---------|-------------------3h4-0---------|
1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a 4 e + a 1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a 4 e + a

e|---------------------------------|---------------------------------|
b|---------------------------------|-3-------------------------------|
g|-------------------------2-------|-2-----2-------------------------|
d|-------------------------2-------|-0-----2-----2-------------------|
a|-------2p0---------------0-------|-------0-----2-------b-----------|
e|-0-3-4-----0-3-4-0---3-4---------|-------------0-------3-----------|

um, I don't know what this guys definition of unorthodox is... but both of those are pretty
"by the book" riffs. first one is in the key of G major and the next is just an E minor
pentatonic riff with the maj3rd thrown in as people have been doing for the past hundred
years in the blues.... ooo, slash, you unorthodox fellow, sticking to keys and all.

1.b) INTROS

Slash used a lot of the pentatonic scale for his intros, and he also collaborates and makes
use of the two guitars in the band.

EXAMPLE:

Sweet Child O? Mine, Intro
E:|--------------15----14-----|--------------15----14-----|
B:|-----15--------------------|-----15--------------------|
G:|--------14-12----14----14--|--------14-12----14----14--|
D:|--12-----------------------|--12-----------------------|
A:|---------------------------|---------------------------|
E:|---------------------------|---------------------------|
C
E:|--------------15----14-----|--------------15----14-----|
B:|-----15--------------------|-----15--------------------|
G:|--------14-12----------14--|--------14-12----------14--|
D:|--14-----------------------|--14-----------------------|
A:|---------------------------|---------------------------|
E:|---------------------------|---------------------------|

um.... ok... except for the riff clearly uses 6 notes, not 5. ergo, it's in the key of G major

3.c) ENDING
Well, that?s it. Be Mindful that all of his older stuff is in half-step down tuning. Okay the Bye.
PS: I?m not gonna say go easy on me, but this is my first article and I?m only 13?

ok well, I wish he would've said that sooner...I would've been a little nicer. but still...

i mean, ifyou wanna go through and correct all that, fine. but otherwise, I say don't take it unless
he fixes it.

but, tbh though, for a 13 year old, I give him some props for putting his neck out there and trying.
he'll only get better. he just needs to know exactly what he's talking about before going and writing "lessons"

Cas-:peace:

Dyuha
09-15-2005, 02:36 PM
So...
Pretty whole thing is garbage (thanks Cas) -- remove it to our big invisible pocket called 'craptreasury'.

I'll make some improvement and post the Slash lesson soon.

Thank you guys for help. This was my final shot before some important and long-awaited moment... Be patient, it'll happen very very very soon...:cheers:

casualty01
09-15-2005, 02:41 PM
my pleasure bud. I'll look over the 3rd one now just to be sure but, I wouldn't hope for anything lol.

and I have no idea what the long awaited moment is but hey, sounds good. keep me posted :)

Cas-:peace:

SilentDeftone
09-15-2005, 02:47 PM
raWr, I meant the 2nd one IN the attachment, the one about blues lol. Thanks for going over this stuff though.

-SD :dance:

Dyuha
09-15-2005, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
raWr, I meant the 2nd one IN the attachment, the one about blues lol. Thanks for going over this stuff though.

-SD :dance:

Could you, mr. SD, tell me which one should I post?

Slash's style:
The first lesson isn't bad, especially with the examples. In my opinion it should be an article or in Guitar Gurus. I'd accept it.

or

"LOTS OF MAJOR CHORDS IN ONE SONG & NO MODULATION ? HOW IS IT DONE?" -- 'the 2nd one IN the attachment'? Then how can it be put under Guitar Gurus?

It seems I'm a stupid little monkey...:(

casualty01
09-15-2005, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
raWr, I meant the 2nd one IN the attachment, the one about blues lol. Thanks for going over this stuff though.

-SD :dance:

^^ yeah, I decided to look over all 3. the one D posted, the slash one, and the last one.

the last one is actually theoretically sound, but it's not the reason he thinks all the major chords in one song work lol.

his whole lesson could be summed up by saying "secondary dominants" cause that's really all that major chords on other degrees besides the I IV and V are .... well, in the case that modulation isn't occuring, which is what he is talking about.

and it would just be called "Dorian Blues" not "the blues mode" "dorian with b5" or... and this was my favorite... "blues scale add 2 & 6" lol.

anyways, um, it's not really an explanation FOR what he's talking about (using all major chords without actually modulating) he just happened to notice something and write down all the inherent harmonies of the dorian blues mode. and there's some holes in that as well... like he lists the first chord to have either a major or minor quality, when regardless of how you look at it from a dorian blues basis, the i chord can only be minor or diminished, there' no Maj3rd present. yes, minor over major is a common application, but not going by what he's stating.

it really has nothing to do with major chords in a tune, and major chords in a tune have nothing to do with his observation of the dorian blues harmony.

I'd say it'd be interesting for people to read, but not as a lesson or "article". he should just post it in the forums, but he'll get ripped apart.

however, his observations aside, he blows his "theory" all to shit when he starts listing "examples" lol

Hey Joe by Jimi Hendrix is another good example.

#5 b3 b7 4 1
C G D A E E E E

dude, it has nothing to do with blues scale harmony. it's a cycle of 5th progression and is using :eek: ... MODULATION OFF THE 5th DEGREE lol...

Nirvana?s Smells Like Teen Spirit is another example:

1 4 b3 #5
F Bb Ab Db

^^ THAT, the entire song, is in F# minor. including the solo. the dude plays POWER CHORDS. NOT MAJOR CHORDS!

it has NOTHING to do with the blues scale.

and wtf is this??

Some bands did little more than play the three major chords of
a major key (i.e. 1,4,5), and add just one of the other major
chords (i.e. 2,b3,#5,b7) to create power chords. Try it yourself ?
it actually works.

add major chords to make power chords? doesn't make sense at all...

and that also goes to show he doesn't listen very well cause many of the examples he listed DO use only power chords, not
major. which of course, doesn't apply to his "theory" at all.

and you know what's funny, everything he DOES say that IS correct, falls under "modulation" lol.... so his whole lesson is
basically just a dumbed down version of key modulation, but not as applicable.

and check out what he has to say about that very thing lol..

"Some teachers and academics will discuss modulation and
show how the theory of modulation applies to a song like Hey
Joe. I?m not going to say they are wrong. However, applying
modulation theory to a song doesn?t explain how young bands
(with very little knowledge of music theory) manage to choose
the Blues Mode major chords for their songs. (Bands pick Blues
Mode chords because they sound good together!!)"

this right here is worth throwing the whole thing out on it's own lmao...

should've just said "so... basically, what I just showed you is modulation, but I'm not calling it that because bands didn't know it was modulation. they just picked the chords cause they sounded good. so, what I'm gonna do is come up with a completely assinine concept that barely hangs on by a thread, and call it that too... oh, and I'm gonna make up a name for the scale too. "

here's a clue. they sound GOOD together because.... IT'S MODULATION.

It?s important to note that, not all bands that use major chords are applying the principles of the Blues Mode. Some bands are actually just modulating their way through their songs.

However, why modulate when you can start with a set of chords that sound good and make improvisation easy.

no one is applying any principles of "the blues mode". it's modulation or just applying the concept of secondary dominants.
simple as that....

and the 2nd part kills me. ok... you ask why modulate when you can do your little blues mode thing? ... well, cause modulation is SOUND and yours is full of holes. and let me ask you the same question. why take modulation and secondary dominants, bastardize it, make it ridiculously more complex only to get the same results you would with the simple concept of modulating...

I started off fine when critiquing... but as I read more and more, he just pissed me off.

anyways.. he goes on to list a plethora of examples that either belong to one scale, or simply use modulation.

the kid thinks he came across something, and clearly didn't really come up with anything that hasn't been around for hundreds of years. he only found a more difficult and broadly inccorect way of explaining it.

trash this one. we have enough dumb guitarists on the planet. for fuck sake... I hate people giving wrong info. just run all the theoretical lessons past me from now on lol.. :p:

well, I'm out... but I'll leave you with the words he decided to end that atrocity with...

So, when your music teacher hears you playing all major chords
and says to you, ?Haven?t you learnt anything in the five years
(Ma?am), but I?m playing chords in Dorian Mode add Flat Five?.

you know what.... just delete his account. lol

Cas-:peace:

casualty01
09-15-2005, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Dyuha
Could you, mr. SD, tell me which one should I post?

Slash's style:

or

"LOTS OF MAJOR CHORDS IN ONE SONG & NO MODULATION ? HOW IS IT DONE?" -- 'the 2nd one IN the attachment'? Then how can it be put under Guitar Gurus?

It seems I'm a stupid little monkey...:(

well, I know you're asking SD but... um... the only one salvageable is the slash one. if you just make the corrections I pointed out. or SD can do that.

but the first one you posted and the one about the "lots of major chords" trash them.... they just suck. and then do yourself a favor and try and forget you ever read them lol.

Cas-:peace:

The_Strat_Man
09-15-2005, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by casualty01
you know what.... just delete his account. lol

Cas-:peace:

:haha

I really laughed out loud on that one... Cas, you're just too funny.

SilentDeftone
09-15-2005, 08:57 PM
^ :haha

I agree with Cas, I just wasn't sure about the Major Chord/Blues one, and some of the ideas presented in it.

The one on Slash should be put up after some changes are made (that's what this forum is for!). However I don't feel it's right to just change some dude's lesson without him knowing about it. A possible solution is that you could reject it for right now and PM him asking him to post in the UG Contribution forum, so that improvements could be made.

The others (harmonization, and 60s rock) should be rejected as well. So you're basically rejecting them all :p:.

-SD :dance:

Dyuha
09-15-2005, 11:57 PM
Hallelujah...