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rathmusbass
02-13-2006, 04:28 AM
with bass does it matter if it is solid state or tubed? i know with guitar many prefer tube because it gives a warmer tone, would the same be true for bass? and if i wanted a crunchy growl would i be better off with a tube or solid state?

shut_up_you_***
02-13-2006, 06:14 AM
I do love the sound of tube state amps, very warm. But I would be too scared to own one. They just seem to require a bit more maintenance. Also, I would imagine they require a higher degree of care, especially during transport.

You just got to make sure to balance ALL the pros and cons of owning either tube or solid.... if you gotta enough money, perhaps both! :D

ToolBass_dude
02-13-2006, 07:26 AM
Tube overdrive sounds great on Bass OR guitar :D But yeah, as Shut up said, they require maintenence (replacing tubes etc). If you are willing to deal with that (and the usually massive price tag) then im sure you'll love the result.

Alex :)

Bassilo
02-13-2006, 08:32 AM
Hmm... don't forget, that making an all-tube guitar amp is much easier: they're just less powerfull! (Being at ~200Watts, tops). Imagine an all-tube bass rig of 800watts. You'll need a crane to transport one, and a separate power unit to power one. And an AC to cool one.

Top brand bass amp makers (Mesa, Eden) decided to stick with solid-state powersection, and a tube preamp.

ToolBass_dude
02-13-2006, 08:35 AM
Hmm... don't forget, that making an all-tube guitar amp is much easier: they're just less powerfull! (Being at ~200Watts, tops). Imagine an all-tube bass rig of 800watts. You'll need a crane to transport one, and a separate power unit to power one. And an AC to cool one.

Top brand bass amp makers (Mesa, Eden) decided to stick with solid-state powersection, and a tube preamp.

hah, true :)

You can still get Ampeg all tubers though, can't you? Like the SVT Classics.

Those things are lovely. I have to drag my dad away from them at music shops :)

Alex

Bassilo
02-13-2006, 08:46 AM
/\ i don't think that having an all tube is practical though... It's pretty limited when comes to tones, and the "warmth" can be frustrating sometimes. Plus, after playing solidstate for 99.9% of my time, playing an all tube is frustrating. The dinamics are odd, it distorts, for instance, with a "twang", mimicking a fretless. Yeah, come to think it kinda turns your bass into a fretless...

MetalUpTheAss
02-13-2006, 12:32 PM
Tube Ampegs are overrated though. Sound bad everytime I play thru it in GC.

4-string-4-eva
02-13-2006, 01:59 PM
tube is better in my opinion, tends to be better for a more percussive sound. solid is more warm.

Scourge441
02-13-2006, 05:18 PM
tube is better in my opinion, tends to be better for a more percussive sound. solid is more warm.
Pretty sure you got it backwards, bro.

FunkMaster
02-13-2006, 05:23 PM
jup, tube is warmer...

I've got a tube AND an SS pre-amp on my hartke, mostly it's just the tube amp thats on.
It has a SS power amp, wich most amps have...
Another problem is that tubes are less reliable, so the lesser tubes, the more reliable the amp becomes...

rockerc
02-13-2006, 06:54 PM
I'm into tube. It just sounds the way I like to sound.

John Swift
02-13-2006, 06:57 PM
Being an old fart I have been lucky enough to use both types many times down the years, I witnessed the advent of solid state amplifiers and believe you me the early attempts were awful; (WEM, HH etc).
Watt for Watt an all valve/tube amp will give the impression of being several times louder driving the same speakers as a SS amp.
My Orange 120 watts all valve/tube amp provides more sound level than my 450 watt solid state amp.
The major downside of owning an all valve/tube amp is the weight; 23kilos for my Orange 120 watt 5 kilos for my 450 watt SS.
And remember you can change a valve/tube in minutes without a soldering iron, the modern valve/tube amps are quite robust as well.
You can also modify your sound by the selection of the particular brand of tube that you use.
Part II tommorow.

83lespaulstudio
02-13-2006, 08:02 PM
Being an old fart I have been lucky enough to use both types many times down the years, I witnessed the advent of solid state amplifiers and believe you me the early attempts were awful; (WEM, HH etc).
Watt for Watt an all valve/tube amp will give the impression of being several times louder driving the same speakers as a SS amp.
My Orange 120 watts all valve/tube amp provides more sound level than my 450 watt solid state amp.
The major downside of owning an all valve/tube amp is the weight; 23kilos for my Orange 120 watt 5 kilos for my 450 watt SS.
And remember you can change a valve/tube in minutes without a soldering iron, the modern valve/tube amps are quite robust as well.
You can also modify your sound by the selection of the particular brand of tube that you use.
Part II tommorow.

good info, John. looking foward to part II. here is the thread that has photos of John's amp. very nice. it has before, and after pics', so look over the whole thread.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285652

:cool:

TGM
02-14-2006, 02:48 AM
jup, tube is warmer...

I've got a tube AND an SS pre-amp on my hartke, mostly it's just the tube amp thats on.
It has a SS power amp, wich most amps have...
Another problem is that tubes are less reliable, so the lesser tubes, the more reliable the amp becomes...

Yea, I mix mix both preamps but there is always more of the tube in there. Though as far as I know it only has one tube in the preamp, so that doesn't really count as a tube preamp. Still sounds good though, warmer than the SS side.

Even for guitar SS amps aren't evil. My guitarists use multi effects pedals into SS amps, and it sounds great. (Good multieffects units though, forget the models but I like them and that's saying something. I usually never like a guitar amp that isn't tube.)

I think alot of the SS=evil mentality comes from the fact that most people play low end SS amps that are designed for complete begginners on a budget, or those horrible SS stacks. (MG's, AVT's, Line 6 spiders...) These amps are built to be cheap and crap, just the same as some cheap tube amps completely suck.

And wieght is another factor, my head wieghs 16 kilos, I'd hate to lug around a 20+ kilo head and a 20+ kilo cab. (Though I didn't think so before I tried doing it, thanks FunkMaster)

My next guitar amp will be a tube combo though, for bass, my SS amp is great. Though in time I may devolop an better ear for tone in regards to bass amps I still think SS will be the way to go.

John Swift
02-14-2006, 07:45 AM
My next guitar amp will be a tube combo though, for bass, my SS amp is great. Though in time I may devolop an better ear for tone in regards to bass amps I still think SS will be the way to go.
Good comments TGM, the better SS amps are excellent although I personally find the single preamp tubed bass amps a bit of a gimmick.
Valves/tubes and transformers will always take up a lot of space as well as being very heavy, if you look inside a Solid State amp the only thing usualy taking up space is a single flat round toroidal transformer the rest is just an empty void, my 120 watt Orange has two massive/heavy transformers along with 4 x EL34 output valves/tubes and 2 pre-amp valves/tubes, the front and rear panel with all the switches, sockets, knobs and sliders often determine the size of the casing on a Solid State amp.
Valves/tube amps are more expensive as components such as transformers, valves/tubes are expensive, also for Bass 200 watts is about right, the problem being weights of more than 26 kilos/57lbs being the norm for this wattage.
having said all of this my valves/tube Orange 120 is fab although I may be changing it soon as Dave Green the Matamp engineer/designer has offered to make me a 200 watt all valves/tube bass amp to my own spec

rathmusbass
02-14-2006, 08:35 PM
does a pre-amp change the tone and high/low levels of an instrument? ive never used a pre-amp or met a person that has one. also, whatr are some good pre-amps?

tubadude
02-14-2006, 08:56 PM
Tube Ampegs are overrated though. Sound bad everytime I play thru it in GC.


ive never palyed one a GC, but i have palyed a SVT classic at this one place, and it sounded pretty nice. but i can get that sound with my carvin r1000.

the SVT is 300 watts, and weighs over 80 pounds, and about 2200 if im not mistaken. (for you toolbass)

TGM
02-15-2006, 01:53 AM
Good comments TGM, the better SS amps are excellent although I personally find the single preamp tubed bass amps a bit of a gimmick.

having said all of this my valves/tube Orange 120 is fab although I may be changing it soon as Dave Green the Matamp engineer/designer has offered to make me a 200 watt all valves/tube bass amp to my own spec

Yea, it is a gimmick, valve tone comes from a valve poweramp and a valve preamp, not one tube in the preamp. That deosn't mean that hybrid amps sound bad or sterile. (Not to say that you meant that.) My mate's hybrid laney (guitar amp) has a great warm jazzy clean.

If you do end up getting that amp, make a thread about it. (With lots of pictures amd soundclips. ;) )