one riff, changing keys, one scale?


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seltzer
03-22-2006, 08:50 PM
if chord progression goes something like, A, A, D, E, does that mean the lead guitar riff should be in key of A (on any scale) for 2 bars, and then D and then E (on the same scale but changing the key), or would the entire guitar riff be in A?

Slurgi
03-22-2006, 09:04 PM
The lead guitar riff should be what sounds good, but the chords you listed, if all major chords, fit in the key of A, so the lead guitar riff will certainly work playing in the key of A.

I'm not sure what you mean by "on the same scale but changing the key", though. Actually, now that I really read your post, you seem quite confused on many levels. Um, where's SD with those links to beginner lessons?

seltzer
03-22-2006, 09:13 PM
im very confused. ive been playing 4 years, but ive never gotten into music theory or anything.

but for example, in guitarpro, i often want to know what scale a certain song is in because i like the sound of it, so i use the scale finder but it seems like the song changes keys or maybe even scales every once in a while. i thought entire songs were supposed to be in 1 scale?

Slurgi
03-22-2006, 09:15 PM
im very confused. ive been playing 4 years, but ive never gotten into music theory or anything.

but for example, in guitarpro, i often want to know what scale a certain song is in because i like the sound of it, so i use the scale finder but it seems like the song changes keys or maybe even scales every once in a while. i thought entire songs were supposed to be in 1 scale?

Oh no, many songs, especially those that arent from pop music change keys all the time, and guitar pro might especially get confused if there are 'borrowed' chords from other keys, but then the melody may not change keys at all.

I'll try to dig around a bit and find one of those links myself...

seltzer
03-22-2006, 09:17 PM
so should i change keys too? how do i know what key to change to and when to change it?

markenator
03-22-2006, 09:20 PM
it also doesnt have to be in A it can also be in like F# minor (relative minor)

Slurgi
03-22-2006, 09:21 PM
Well, in all honesty, you do it when it sounds good, when it creates the music that you want.

For example, let me try to show you an example of when to change keys.

Lets say you have a song in the key of C major. Strum the chords, C, F, Am, G, in that order, a few times. Get a feel for that, now lets say you make the song 'suddenly' change directions, you perhaps have a lyric that stands out from the rest, changes the mood of the song during an epic moment (or something, i'm just giving an example). Then play C, F, D7, G. See how that resolves to G? It actually changed the key, with the D7 being the V7 chord in G.

This is a rather simple, contrived example, but hopefully you understand the point. Learn the basics of music theory, and this will probably make more sense.

:cheers:

SilentDeftone
03-22-2006, 09:48 PM
A major, E major, and D major are in the same key - http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/chords/what_chords_are_in_what_key_and_why.html

it also doesnt have to be in A it can also be in like F# minor (relative minor)
When he's playing A - D - E, hell no it's not going to be in F#m.

Other helpful links about scales:
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=3002958#post3002958
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16999
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187159

-SD :dance:

Rocket2D4
03-23-2006, 12:26 AM
You can play in the same parent scale

To stay in the same key, you can also use mode
Ionian for A.....notes A to A
lydain for D.....notes D to D
Mixolian for E note s E to D.

Think of the modes as
Do, ra, me, fa, so, la, te, do, as in vocal
after all you're going to be using the guitar to sing.
If you practice playing the mode you can hear the different sounds each
mode makes.

You can also use the aeolian mode (relative minor) over all of them as you would
with the parent scale. The F# min pentatonic works will also over all the
chords. it just depends how good your are. Using the arppegios of the
chords the your soloing over helps.

I use modes becuase it helps control my playing and my solo have
meaning, but sometimes....the hell with meaning is what I mean...
there's a certain amount of noize....music, art making involve.lmaf
There's also riffs , tech ..ect aside from scales. it helps if you harminize
when do those riffs thou.lol

You can also change keys
Play Amaj penta over A
Dmaj penta over D
Emaj penta over E

Or A ionian, A mixolian, A lydian A major penta,....etc
This is call the axis pitch system.
experiments.lol

You can play what ever mode or scales over what ever chord.
it help to know what the roots are.

Sometime I even see the 5th arppegio was a ghost root
and solo off the.

It also depends on how the chord is being color. The different arrpegios,
I paint off of those arrpegios too.

it depends on the song

Gabuydachk
03-23-2006, 06:29 PM
if you wanted you could leave the whole song in A Ionian

coffeeguy9
03-23-2006, 07:19 PM
It seems though you are playing a I IV V progression, Not knowing what is minor or major.

Assuming they are all major or powerchords, yes, you can play in the key of C. If you change keys while playing the different chords, the lead part will sound in key with the chords, but not itself.

Thats the easiest way I can explain it.

Corwinoid
03-23-2006, 08:24 PM
Well, in all honesty, you do it when it sounds good, when it creates the music that you want.

<snipped rather simple example>

:cheers:
I can't remember who it is that described the twelve keys as rooms in a building (possibly the Doctrine of the Affections, but I don't recall exactly). Each room being unique, each having it's own affect on the listener. To build music you expose this affect, and build a hall/passageway to another key (modulation), and then expose the new room (affect). It's a really interesting analogy

Eventually we realized that related keys relate to the tonic key in the same manner that chords relate to them. For instance, a piece starting in a key and then moving to the dominant key (ie. C modulating to G) is 'instable' as a key. It has a strong drive to move back to the home key, and is largely the reason that SA form, so popular in the classical period, moved to the dominant key for the exposition; the instability lent itself well to highly active allegros, with quick expressions, exposing and building on the original line.

Ultimately Shoenberg says "Modulation is like a change of scenery." Modulation provides lift to a piece... and indeed, it's difficult to modulate to another key and "tone down" the music.

Just a little aside I thought was pertinate after you mentioned changing moods.

SpIkE27Z
03-24-2006, 04:41 AM
Well, in all honesty, you do it when it sounds good, when it creates the music that you want.

For example, let me try to show you an example of when to change keys.

Lets say you have a song in the key of C major. Strum the chords, C, F, Am, G, in that order, a few times. Get a feel for that, now lets say you make the song 'suddenly' change directions, you perhaps have a lyric that stands out from the rest, changes the mood of the song during an epic moment (or something, i'm just giving an example). Then play C, F, D7, G. See how that resolves to G? It actually changed the key, with the D7 being the V7 chord in G.

This is a rather simple, contrived example, but hopefully you understand the point. Learn the basics of music theory, and this will probably make more sense.

:cheers:
wow, that's pretty awesome.

Rocket2D4
03-24-2006, 03:45 PM
wow, that's pretty awesome.


Which bring you back to the basic or how the circle of 5th works
Raise the 4th to go sharp or next key singnature
lower the 7th to go flat


D is the 5th (V) note of the root G...mmm circle of 5th.lol


D7= the 7th is flat.
Dmaj7 = 7th is perfect or 1/2 step from root
Notice the maj7 chords are used in the I or V posistion

SilentDeftone
03-24-2006, 05:12 PM
D7= the 7th is flat.
Dmaj7 = 7th is perfect or 1/2 step from root
You should check up on your interval names, a b7 is a minor 7th, while a Dmaj7 includes a major 7th interval. Not perfect.

-SD :dance:

Rocket2D4
03-24-2006, 07:58 PM
Holy schmoly....you would thought :rolleyes:
if I know the differents between Dmaj7 and D7 .

So..this is why I kind do stupid stuff like that...so peaple peaple will
notice the differents. :D

You R correct, if peaple study the intervals, the chords will start making sense
to them. You basically follow the instructions of what the chord names
say to do.