Anchor or No Anchor??


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camo9543
04-03-2006, 09:46 PM
well I am just starting to learn how to shred and I wanna know if anchoring will limit my atlernate picking speed or not

Rockon914
04-03-2006, 09:56 PM
what the hell does it mean to anchor?

Hypnot1st
04-03-2006, 09:56 PM
I don't know if it really matters much, but I've heard anchoring slows you down.

Led_Zeppelin_37
04-03-2006, 09:58 PM
kk

camo9543
04-03-2006, 10:02 PM
yeah anchoring is either using your pinkie or three fingers for support i just wannt find out so i can change now so it wont be harder to change later if i need to and i dont want to limit myself

ferretman
04-03-2006, 10:03 PM
Congratulations you have just posted thread number 100000000 on this topic. Do a search before you start threads.
But anyway there are to many awesome guitarists that anchor their pinkie or palm or whatever for it to be a problem. eg. John Petrucci, Marty Friedman, Joe Stump, Michael Angelo Batio, Steve Morse just to name a few.

John Kimble
04-03-2006, 10:51 PM
Anchoring will not slow you down, anyone who says it does is just being anal.

steve vai82
04-03-2006, 10:59 PM
i have read from several different sources that say anchoring is bad. Now, if virtuoso's like Pertrucci, MAB, and Marty anchor than obviously anchoring can be good too. But as for me, I was reading a different thread on this topic today and I tried to get used to not anchoring and I can tell you honestly my speed has already improved a little. Its hard to get used to not anchoring (primarily dealing with accuracy) but I think its worth it. That way your wrist is not restricted as much.

Paint
04-03-2006, 11:08 PM
i was always told anchoring your pinky was good.

Rocket2D4
04-03-2006, 11:36 PM
I anchor my pinky wihtout thinking about it, sometimes.

or do mean anchor your palm to the bridge sort of speak ?
Just a slight movement of my palm gose from mutting to ring.
I don't even think about it.

Mascot
04-03-2006, 11:50 PM
I anchor.

Slurgi
04-04-2006, 12:24 AM
I anchor. Don't worry about it, I'd say you're fine doing it.

steve vai82
04-04-2006, 12:34 AM
I think though, in terms of shred its better to not have an anchor. That frees up your wrist and alternate picking is all in the wrist.

camo9543
04-04-2006, 06:53 AM
alright thanks, i just needed to know because when i was picking sometimes my pinkie ankor would keep rubbing on the pick gaurd thus slowing me down so ill try both ways and see which one helps me better

Freepower
04-04-2006, 11:04 AM
I wouldnt anchor. You can't do it without creating tension, it limits your movement, and it creates friction. What advantages does it have? None.

Smokey Amp
04-04-2006, 11:13 AM
MAB doesn't anchor...Well, from what I've seen anyway...

Sir Edwin CBE
04-04-2006, 12:32 PM
It's preference. Any type of tension will make you slow down so just make sure that you're not creating tension. Also try playing without anchoring too - just see which one you prefer.

skydropsblue
04-04-2006, 12:44 PM
i used to anchor. after reading a lot on the subject i decided to stop. it is a hard habit to break, but my speed went up 10 fold, there was LESS tension in my hand/wrist/arm, and my accuracy even improved. i would recommend not anchoring. i will be hard at first, but worth it in the end. btw, i have NEVER read anything on technique that said you should anchor. (really, the most important thing you can do with your playing is to work out/get rid of any tension. for me, although i didn't realize it, i was creating tension by anchoring)

TeenBite
04-04-2006, 01:41 PM
There are LOADS of these threads floating around, and please DON'T ANCHOR, for reasons that I'm sure have been explained above.

Seriously, don't.

camo9543
04-04-2006, 02:58 PM
thanks guys then i wont anchor

Zamboni
04-04-2006, 03:06 PM
Anchoring will not slow you down, anyone who says it does is just being anal.
Of course it will. You're just looking for an exuse to not work on your free-hand play.

Don't anchor. It most defnitely slows you down and is a bad habit to get into. It gives you a false sense of stability and will only hinder you in the future.

If you want to completely open up your playing and increase your speed tenfold, don't anchor.

Rockon914
04-04-2006, 09:43 PM
I thin k I anchor with my Palm, is that possible or am i just resting my hand on the lower strings when there not being played?

Zamboni
04-04-2006, 10:03 PM
I thin k I anchor with my Palm, is that possible or am i just resting my hand on the lower strings when there not being played?
Yeah that would be an anchor.

I used to do both types of anchor actually, both finger and palm, but honestly, it's not that hard to stop doing, and my playing became so much less tensioned and more fluid.

Naboo
04-05-2006, 06:29 AM
Resting your palm on the srings when not used is ushally an advantage because it cuts unwanted resonation and its alot less restricting than anchoring your pinky

Night_Lights
04-05-2006, 07:22 AM
is resting my palm on the strings considored anchoring? because ive stopped putting my pinky down on the body, but i still mostly put my palm on the bridge. i play metal you see... lots of palm muting and such....

Naboo
04-05-2006, 10:02 AM
is resting my palm on the strings considored anchoring? because ive stopped putting my pinky down on the body, but i still mostly put my palm on the bridge. i play metal you see... lots of palm muting and such....

Dont think its actually considered anchoring because unless your are sticking your palm behind the bridge then you are only really resting it there so it dosent really restrict your playing

Zamboni
04-05-2006, 12:22 PM
Dont think its actually considered anchoring because unless your are sticking your palm behind the bridge then you are only really resting it there so it dosent really restrict your playing
Resting= planting, and when you plant, you restrict your range of motion and you tense yourself up.

Palm muting does require a rest on the bridge, but after the mute, you should completely separate your hand from the bridge.

scheck006
04-05-2006, 05:00 PM
you lose accuracy if you don't anchor.

You'll naturally start to come off if you pick too fast, so that's what I do.

just let it go free if you want to pick a million miles and hour.

usually if you are doing that you're not doing some mad inside picking or alternate picking an arpeggio. that's why you can afford a loss in accuracy.

Zamboni
04-05-2006, 06:35 PM
you lose accuracy if you don't anchor.

You'll naturally start to come off if you pick too fast, so that's what I do.

just let it go free if you want to pick a million miles and hour.

usually if you are doing that you're not doing some mad inside picking or alternate picking an arpeggio. that's why you can afford a loss in accuracy.
Wrong.

With time your accuracy becomes ten times better than when you anchor.

And on the contrary, not planting your hand or fingers on the guitar makes alt picking, and any other style of picking for that matter, much easier and more efficient.

scheck006
04-06-2006, 01:15 AM
tell that to steve morse, i'm sure he'll agree with you. seeing as he's known for his super accurate yet anchored alternate picking.

Zamboni
04-06-2006, 10:36 AM
tell that to steve morse, i'm sure he'll agree with you. seeing as he's known for his super accurate yet anchored alternate picking.
Yeah, because that's how we judge right and wrong: "X person does it, so it must be right!!1!!11!!onez0rZ!!1!!!1!" :rolleyes:

Many people anchor. Many people get good at anchoring because it's all that they know, or it's all that they've been mistakingly taught. The reasoning behind anchoring doesn't matter, it's still a bad habit.

It's like saying "Hey, I can bite my nails off way faster than you can!" But it's still a bad habit regardless of how good you get at it.

The simple fact is that it's still not going to get you as good as you could get by not anchoring.

Resiliance
04-06-2006, 12:34 PM
Zamboni is absolutely right.

You only lose accuracy because you haven't trained in doing it without anchoring... Duh.

z4twenny
04-06-2006, 01:33 PM
ok i would like to point out, anchor or no anchor, there is such a minute amount of movement from your wrist when shredding it shouldn't matter, and fyi, there shouldn't be any tension hardly when shredding, if yer muscles are tense then you're expending WAAAAY too much energy, i've been beating the crap out of a guitar for long enough to know this for a fact, yer wrist should be loose and the movement free flowing..... but that is something that comes w/ time

Sir Edwin CBE
04-06-2006, 02:01 PM
It's all preference.

scheck006
04-06-2006, 02:21 PM
Yeah, because that's how we judge right and wrong: "X person does it, so it must be right!!1!!11!!onez0rZ!!1!!!1!" :rolleyes:

Many people anchor. Many people get good at anchoring because it's all that they know, or it's all that they've been mistakingly taught. The reasoning behind anchoring doesn't matter, it's still a bad habit.

It's like saying "Hey, I can bite my nails off way faster than you can!" But it's still a bad habit regardless of how good you get at it.

The simple fact is that it's still not going to get you as good as you could get by not anchoring.

whatever, do it your own way and stop telling other people how to do things.

Resiliance
04-06-2006, 05:39 PM
^Thread author is asking for it, smartass.


And you're wrong, deal with it.

Freepower
04-06-2006, 05:42 PM
^ well, people HAVE asked, and it is an informed opinion.

What reason is there to anchor?

Lots of great players do it.

What reason not to?

Lots of great players do it. They also ADVISE THAT YOU SHOULDNT ANCHOR!
Have you ever heard any player any good say to you "Y'know, the best thing that ever happened to my picking was anchoring"? No. How often do you hear the converse?
And as far as goes tension, etc, well, thats obvious.

Finally, i'd like to point out that while it may be trickier to learn to change, so is the change to alternate picking from all-downs, and you wouldnt dispute that. Give it a go, suprise yourself.

scheck006
04-06-2006, 06:22 PM
^Thread author is asking for it, smartass.


And you're wrong, deal with it.

I really don't give a ****. under your reasoning, wrong is ok with me

BFI
04-06-2006, 07:26 PM
im sure everyone seen michael angelo anchoring, so? he shreds like hell and also sounds like arseholes.

IMO you shouldnt really anchor i guess, but if it helps you learn...

steve vai82
04-07-2006, 01:37 AM
anchoring is a bad habit. look at it this way. Tiger Woods, a GREAT golfer and may be the best golfer when everything is said and done. A few years ago he realized that he had a flaw in his swing. So he completely dismantled his swing by each step and fixed this minute problem with his swing. He may have been a great golfer without fixing his swing but he would not have been the best he could be. Similiar to anchoring, sure you may be able to shred pretty well with that flaw, in fact you may be able to shred very well. But you won't be as good as you could be until you stop anchoring.

Zamboni
04-07-2006, 12:00 PM
I really don't give a ****. under your reasoning, wrong is ok with me
Wow, ignorance really is bliss. :rolleyes:

What a stubborn, stubborn kid. No one really gives a shit how you pick, in fact, all we're trying to do is help you get better.

But hey, limit yourself. I honestly couldn't care less. It's just less competition for me in the future.

scheck006
04-07-2006, 04:28 PM
if I'm as limited as morse, petrucci and gilbert. then by all means. **** me

Freepower
04-07-2006, 05:04 PM
El Gilberto doesnt anchor. He may have his right hand touching the bridge, and he may palm mute - but he doesnt have a reflexive attachment to the guitar.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1244883300064624710&q=paul+gilbert&pl=true

Spot the anchoring!


But seriously, y'may have noticed im not too big into the anchoring business. Why do you anchor?

SomeEvilDude
04-07-2006, 05:07 PM
Seeing as I don't shred much I can't see the nessecity in not anchoring.

However, that said, I'll anchor a lot while I'm soloing, but if I need to play a reasonably fast lick I just kind of naturally de-anchor to play it. Out of interest, is this ok, or should I just try not to anchor even when I'm playing slow too?

IThinkYou Smell
04-07-2006, 05:15 PM
Wow, ignorance really is bliss. :rolleyes:

What a stubborn, stubborn kid. No one really gives a shit how you pick, in fact, all we're trying to do is help you get better.

But hey, limit yourself. I honestly couldn't care less. It's just less competition for me in the future.

Trying to help people get better? By shoving your own way of doing things on them and saying they're wrong for not doing it YOUR way?
haha you must of been reffering to yourself saying ignorance is bliss.



I listen to so n so therefore i am The OMEGA

Freepower
04-07-2006, 05:20 PM
Seeing as I don't shred much I can't see the nessecity in not anchoring.

However, that said, I'll anchor a lot while I'm soloing, but if I need to play a reasonably fast lick I just kind of naturally de-anchor to play it. Out of interest, is this ok, or should I just try not to anchor even when I'm playing slow too?

Well, if you can do both, then its really your choice. Most importantly, you can try it out for yourself and decide. It seems that you understand intuitively that less tension = faster, ie, you're releasing more and more extraneous stuff when you need to play faster, not tensing up and making things harder.

scheck006
04-07-2006, 05:36 PM
El Gilberto doesnt anchor. He may have his right hand touching the bridge, and he may palm mute - but he doesnt have a reflexive attachment to the guitar.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1244883300064624710&q=paul+gilbert&pl=true

Spot the anchoring!


But seriously, y'may have noticed im not too big into the anchoring business. Why do you anchor?

he has his right hand touching the guitar but he doesnt' anchor?

Freepower
04-07-2006, 05:44 PM
^ yup. He's palm muting, but he isnt anchored in anyway - that pressure is a concious effort to change the tone of his picking. Nice. Notice that it's as loose as he can get it. It doesnt have any bother coming off the guitar. Watch his string skip - floats above the strings, then comes down when he's done to mute noise. Good technique.

Thats not anchoring.

IThinkYou Smell
04-07-2006, 06:17 PM
haha so anchoring would be...what? pushing down on the bridge hard enough to make an imprint in your skin? Paul gilbert is anchoring, get used to it

Freepower
04-07-2006, 06:24 PM
^ no, picking around a fixed point where your hand is attached to the guitar. Theres a slight difference between that and palm muting, i suggest you try it. I can pick from a fixed point on the guitar, i can pick and almost float but brush the strings, and i can chug away, but i dont anchor to anything - i choose to put my hand down.

This is slightly closer to what would be considered anchoring. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8342857222021819037&q=micheal+angelo+batio&pl=true

I know plenty of people that simply attach their wrists to their guitar whether or not they're muting. That, i see as anchoring. Im a bit of a purist. Any unneccessarily physical crutches in the form of a fixed point reference - i see that as anchoring.

scheck006
04-07-2006, 06:51 PM
its impossible to keep your wrist in a fixed point. you could not reach all of the strings. he is moving his wrist a bunch.

either way. you can't possibly think his picking is lacking.

Freepower
04-07-2006, 06:56 PM
its impossible to keep your wrist in a fixed point. you could not reach all of the strings. he is moving his wrist a bunch.

Exactly. But he's anchoring his FINGERS.


either way. you can't possibly think his picking is lacking.

It could be MORE-ing though. Are you saying picking cant get any better than that?

scheck006
04-07-2006, 07:03 PM
no, I'm sure he practices to get better. why would he just revamp his entire technique when he's the best? that's seems like a complete mind**** to me.

axe_grinder247
04-07-2006, 07:10 PM
allow me to throw out a suggestion to why people anchor...well, i've noticed, after watching many players make the same mistake, that players who anchor normally usually pick more from the fingers then the wrist...why is that? well, since you're fingers are on the pickguard and your wrist is behind or on the bridge, your wrist is constricted to only minimal movement, making it nearly impossible to create enough force to pick a string...and how do they solve it? not by learning to play unanchored, but by picking with the fingers, which may be fine if you're into blues and such, but if you want to shred, you have to pick from the wrist, and to pick from the wrist, lose the anchor...the bottom line is, zamboni and freepower are absolutely right in that anchoring will limit your speed capabilities...when i stopped anchoring, i thought "holy s*** this is going to take forever and it won't even help me" because my accuracy was horrible without the anchor...but after long hours of practice i began to get the hang of it and before i knew it i could easily reach nearly twice the speed i could before with no tension whatsoever...my top speed with anchoring was achieved with the minimal amount of effort from my picking hand...seriously, if you learn to play unanchored, you will reap the benefits and become closer to achieving perfect technique, and perfect technique=speed

Freepower
04-07-2006, 07:15 PM
The Best?

I personally think PG is better, but theres people out there far better at picking than the both of them.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5607575793159275965&q=Shawn+lane&pl=true

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7356102452301060758&q=Rusty+Cooley&pl=true

And speaking of which, theres an unanchoring testimonial above me. There hasnt been anyone coming in and saying "Anchor, its great". Give it a go, seriously. At least you'll have a qualified view of both sides of the fence.

Resiliance
04-08-2006, 07:35 AM
no, I'm sure he practices to get better. why would he just revamp his entire technique when he's the best? that's seems like a complete mind**** to me.

What?

You wouldn't want to be the best you can be? Even if you were "the best"?

Jesus, music isn't a goddamn competition.

Sir Edwin CBE
04-08-2006, 07:57 AM
It's all preference.

SomeEvilDude
04-08-2006, 08:30 AM
Woo, more testimonial. I'm not a shredder, so I don't know how useful this may be, but either way.

Well, since my post a couple of days ago, I took into account what Freepower said about preference and trying both ways, and so I decided to at least give it a shot.
Seeing as when I play fast licks I don't anchor I thought it would be best to start with some faster licks. After a few minutes, I slowed down to stuff that I'm more suited to playing, but made a conscious effort not to anchor my pinky to the body. As for playing without anchoring, I'm not sure if it's just because I'm a fast leaner or what, but the transition from anchoring to not anchoring was quite easy.
But anywho, my accuracy wasn't as great as when it was anchored, but after a good amount of practise yesterday and today, my accuracy increased a lot, and so did my speed for the rare time I just noodle around with quick licks.
That said, while not anchoring to increase speed isn't of much use to me, not anchoring leaves my pinky free, so things like messing around on the tremolo bar and volume swells (both of which I use frequently) are a lot easier and more effective then when I was anchoring.

Zamboni
04-08-2006, 05:53 PM
Trying to help people get better? By shoving your own way of doing things on them and saying they're wrong for not doing it YOUR way?
It's not my way, prick. It's a tried and tested way of increasing speed and accuracy while reducing tension and strain.

And like I said, I couldn't care less how inefficiently you play your guitar. I've been to enough shows and seen enough guitarists who think they're king shit of turd island, when they actually have no idea what the hell they're doing, to know how the average guitarist plays.

However, if you try and defend your laziness, I'm going to pick it apart and attempt to educate you, but most people are too blatantly prideful to take advice.

scheck006
04-08-2006, 06:04 PM
I'm so sick of this. its not the accepted way. it IS your way. the least you could do is not stereotype everyone who anchors as the local hardcore guy who knows nothing about playing.

I don't anchor with my pinky. yes, that makes it harder for trem and volume knob stuff. I don't see how it can be such a big deal to have your wrist lightly touching the guitar. how else are you going to mute the bottom strings?

IThinkYou Smell
04-08-2006, 06:13 PM
i lol'd @ you, i like how you assume how i can play with out anything to back you up at all. So i shall assume that you can play Metallica badly and suck at the solos. I am Gsus just to let you know and Jesus RAWKS

Zamboni
04-08-2006, 06:26 PM
I'm so sick of this. its not the accepted way. it IS your way.
Wrong. Do you think I invented free-hand playing?

Ask anybody who knows anything about guitar, like Freepower or Cas, or SD, and they will completely agree with me and my thoughts on the limitations of anchoring.

I don't see how it can be such a big deal to have your wrist lightly touching the guitar.
And I'm trying to tell you! It's a big deal because, eventually, you are going to either a) hurt yourself from the tension you're putting on your wrist, and/or b) reach a point where you can no longer pick faster or more accurately. You'll hit a barrier and the ONLY WAY you'll be able to bypass that speed and accuracy limit is by ungluing your wrist, and preferably your whole arm, from your guitar body.

how else are you going to mute the bottom strings?
Oh please, it's obvious that when you want to palm mute you're going to have to put your wrist on the bridge. I'm not arguing that, it's when it is not at all necessary to have your hand on your guitar, yet you do because of habit and laziness, that it is wrong.

i lol'd @ you, i like how you assume how i can play with out anything to back you up at all. So i shall assume that you can play Metallica badly and suck at the solos. I am Gsus just to let you know and Jesus RAWKS
Wow, I'd argue with you further, but I'm afraid my vocabulary would surpass that of the twelve-year-old's mind you portray yourself to have.

IThinkYou Smell
04-08-2006, 06:29 PM
haha are petty insult all you can dish out?
And what are you talking about? I act like a 7 year old not 12 you booger butt

scheck006
04-08-2006, 06:41 PM
Wrong. Do you think I invented free-hand playing?



likewise, do you think I invented anchoring?


And I'm trying to tell you! It's a big deal because, eventually, you are going to either a) hurt yourself from the tension you're putting on your wrist, and/or b) reach a point where you can no longer pick faster or more accurately. You'll hit a barrier and the ONLY WAY you'll be able to bypass that speed and accuracy limit is by ungluing your wrist, and preferably your whole arm, from your guitar body.


can you pick more accurately than steve morse or john petrucci?


Ask anybody who knows anything about guitar, like Freepower or Cas, or SD, and they will completely agree with me and my thoughts on the limitations of anchoring.



anyone who knows anything about guitar? you seem to be discrediting john petrucci, steve morse, micheal angelo.

I'd listen to them any day over you, cas or SD. that's not a blow to you guys, it just goes to show that its all personal preference and that you shouldn't be forcing your way of doing things on everyone.

you guys want a testimonial? I listened to you guys a couple years ago, and stopped anchoring. just kinda sucked for a few months until I started taking guitar lessons, guess what the teacher said. :eek:

my picking has never been better since.

although that probably doesn't matter at all because I'm obviously highly biased towards being an idiot.

SnowballofDoom
04-08-2006, 06:46 PM
how else are you going to mute the bottom strings?

By working on your fretting hand. Once the movements of your fret hand fingers are controlled, you'll be amazed how little pick hand muting you actually need.

------

Anchoring works, and it can work very well (Petrucci and Morse are great examples). But non-anchoring works better (see Lane and Gilbert). Yeah there's the argument for both sides, but in my and in most guitarists experience, learning to pick without anchoring any part of your hand is 10000x better than anchoring.

If you've tried unanchoring and didn't prefer it, then stick with anchoring. It's really not that big of a deal, you can get very fast with either method. But it's much easier to hurt yourself with anchoring, and much easier to get fast quickly without anchoring.

But whatever, there's more stubborness in this thread than I've seen in a long time...

IThinkYou Smell
04-08-2006, 06:46 PM
You know what scheck? You just totally kowabungalike PWNED they're behinds dude we should totally make a band and become the slow picking shred gods of hades

IThinkYou Smell
04-08-2006, 06:50 PM
By working on your fretting hand. Once the movements of your fret hand fingers are controlled, you'll be amazed how little pick hand muting you actually need.

------

Anchoring works, and it can work very well (Petrucci and Morse are great examples). But non-anchoring works better (see Lane and Gilbert). Yeah there's the argument for both sides, but in my and in most guitarists experience, learning to pick without anchoring any part of your hand is 10000x better than anchoring.

If you've tried unanchoring and didn't prefer it, then stick with anchoring. It's really not that big of a deal, you can get very fast with either method. But it's much easier to hurt yourself with anchoring, and much easier to get fast quickly without anchoring.

But whatever, there's more stubborness in this thread than I've seen in a long time...

Might i ask how not anchoring is the better way for not hurting yourself? I'd think that using more muscles to hold your arm over the guitar than relaxing it on the guitar is more damaging. Anchor and use them when you need them instead of tensing them the entire time, seriosukly im about ready to! :peace:

gunther_sucks
04-08-2006, 06:58 PM
I personally am all for anchoring in certain circumstances.

If I am muting I like to anchor at the bridge. I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say there is strain, inaccuracy, and loss of speed(in regards to down-picking). I downpick much faster anchored(I don't use my pinky, I rest my wrist on the bridge) than unanchored. I anchor when I play metal.

If I am alternate picking and/or soloing, I like to unanchor BARELY(I still don't use my pinky, I just barely ever so carefuly rest my wrist on the bridge... barely). I have found when I float alot my accuracy goes to the suck when I go fully floating, especially when doing wide or fast alternate picking.


I tried the pinky anchor thing for a while, but I found my hand to shakey to do it effectively.

scheck006
04-08-2006, 06:58 PM
If you've tried unanchoring and didn't prefer it, then stick with anchoring. It's really not that big of a deal, you can get very fast with either method.


that's all I'm really looking for :cheers:


Anchoring works, and it can work very well (Petrucci and Morse are great examples).
But non-anchoring works better (see Lane and Gilbert).




that's still pretty subjective.

SnowballofDoom
04-08-2006, 06:58 PM
Might i ask how not anchoring is the better way for not hurting yourself? I'd think that using more muscles to hold your arm over the guitar than relaxing it on the guitar is more damaging.

It's really not. The big muscles in your arm and shoulder are built for that kind of movement, as long as it's relaxed. Your wrist isn't made for jumping all over the place on its own while picking incredibly fast.

When you anchor, you cut off a lot of the movement from your arm and shoulder, because you've mounted your wrist on the bridge. Now, if you want to string skip from the low to high E strings, your wrist is doing all that work. That's not so good.

Sure you can anchor lightly and still include your arm and shoulder and have no problems, I'm just saying most guitarists don't do that. They pick using only their wrists, which is going to lead to some damage later on.

I'm not addressing anyone here specifically, just giving my thoughts on the topic.

scheck006
04-08-2006, 08:38 PM
It'.
They pick using only their wrists, which is going to lead to some damage later on.



well steve morse has been doing it for 30 years.

Sir Edwin CBE
04-09-2006, 12:31 AM
I got my guitar back from a guitar shop ( it wa getting a fret job ) so I asked the guy who did the repair ( says he's been playing for over 30 years ) about anchoring. He didn't know it by it's name but when I showed him what I ment ( I use my hand behind the bridge ) and he said that it's all preference.

Now if people like this, and others teachers aren't telling learners about the problems associated with anchoring then who's wrong?

Should we tell everyone that anchoring is bad and that they should only play it if they prefer it over unanchored ( which seems to defeat the purpose of discrediting the technique itself ) or should we just let people do as they like but warn them over creating too much extra tension?

Also - what's with the quote above me? How can picking from the wrist damage it at all? Repetitive Strain Injury?

Slurgi
04-09-2006, 02:10 AM
Jesus, music isn't a goddamn competition.


:golfclap:

...

:golfclap: :golfclap: :golfclap:

:cheers:

Zamboni
04-09-2006, 01:22 PM
likewise, do you think I invented anchoring?
Nope, but I do think you are an extremely lazy person who keeps falling back on his "well STEVE MORSE DOES IT!!1!!!!11!one!!1!! so I HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY!!1!!!" argument, while further proving yourself to be more ignorant all the time.


can you pick more accurately than steve morse or john petrucci?

well steve morse has been doing it for 30 years.
Again, this is completely irrelavent. If I spent 30 years of my life learning how to hammer nails with my bare hands, I would eventually get extremely good at it. However, that doesn't mean it's the right way to hammer a nail.


anyone who knows anything about guitar? you seem to be discrediting john petrucci, steve morse, micheal angelo.
They are simply the product of practice. If they hadn't learned the bad habit of anchoring, they'd be tenfold better guitarists than they even are now.

I'd think that using more muscles to hold your arm over the guitar than relaxing it on the guitar is more damaging.
You've got to stop thinking.

It takes more muscles, and more muscle TENSION to glue your hand or fingers to the body/bridge of your guitar and rotate your wrist around a central point than it does to hang your hand above your guitar and let your wrist float.

IThinkYou Smell
04-09-2006, 02:11 PM
Roll's i's @ J00 thats so funny, but hey man, i'd love to hear some of your playing. With your non bad habit forming/"correct" picking style. i bet someone who plays hawthorne heights can play better than you. =O oh gasp

SlashHammett
04-09-2006, 02:53 PM
ok well ive been anchoring my palm on the bridge for 3 years now , just today ive decided to try and play with no anchoring. Yes it sucked at first but after about 10hours of playing i can already see the difference , MUCH easier to pick fast and to string skip . i would definetly recommend un-anchoring if you do at the moment.

scheck006
04-09-2006, 04:56 PM
Nope, but I do think you are an extremely lazy person who keeps falling back on his "well STEVE MORSE DOES IT!!1!!!!11!one!!1!! so I HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY!!1!!!" argument, while further proving yourself to be more ignorant all the time.


never did I say I had to do it the way steve morse does it. I'm saying its fine to do it that way. **** you for saying I'm lazy. that's the stupidest, non-backed up argument you've come up with.

steve morse is known for his picking technique. I can't believe how you are insulting him. definitely not the open minded, non-ignorant thing to do.

at least I've used real people as my examples.



Again, this is completely irrelavent. If I spent 30 years of my life learning how to hammer nails with my bare hands, I would eventually get extremely good at it. However, that doesn't mean it's the right way to hammer a nail.

I was replying to the statement of "its going to hurt you later"

I figured that someone who's been doing it for 30 years, and hasn't gotten hurt, would be of some value to my point that its not going to cause any wrist problems or damage.

of course hammering nails with your hands will actually cause pain, so I have no clue in how this relates to anchoring. I can see why you chose this example though, it's because your desperate to prove to me that your way of doing things is right, and even though you've said you could care less about the way I do things...you're still trying to make me look like an idiot.




They are simply the product of practice. If they hadn't learned the bad habit of anchoring, they'd be tenfold better guitarists than they even are now.

yea...tenfold better guitar players. I'm pretty sure that 10x better than petrucci is impossible. Is there any reasoning behind this statement? seeing as how you're saying I'm ignorant and all, I'm just wondering if there was anything you were basing this upon. other than the way you like to play guitar.

if they are the product of practice, then the only reason you have for not being as good as them, is laziness. In fact, it should be 10x easier for you to achieve their level. seeing as how you're not even close, I can only assume that you're 10x as lazy as them.




It takes more muscles, and more muscle TENSION to glue your hand or fingers to the body/bridge of your guitar and rotate your wrist around a central point than it does to hang your hand above your guitar and let your wrist float.

there's something that's called gravity. its really nice because your hand will stick to the guitar without having to press it! seeing as how the guitar is lower than your elbow of course.



have fun

Freepower
04-09-2006, 06:17 PM
well steve morse has been doing it for 30 years.

To be fair now, he does have carpal tunnel, thats not the best example to use. Think before you fact.


^ you and zamb seem to have your wires crossed a little. You're getting pissed off because he's "insulting" your favourite players - which he's not. He's getting pissed off because you seem to only use those players as reason for anchoring.

Not to mention that a few posts back we have discovered that you dont anchor, you only mute unwanted strings - which is slightly different to actually ANCHORING. Oui?

And as for Lane and gilbert being better than MAB and morse at alt picking -

I can quote you MAB on Lane -

"This man was a DEITY to me".

And watching Morse string skip compared to Gilbert string skip - which is where this kind of stuff becomes most apparent - is like watching a revolver and a machine gun. No competition, really. Not that any of the guys mentioned arent fantastic guitarists - and not that im saying nobody should ever touch the guitar strings with owt but a pick - but frankly, less effort and tension = better playing.

Thats accepted as far as classical, jazz, rock, shred...you name it. Anchoring which produces tension is a no-no. Watch romeo if you want to see how to anchor. On the other hand, it works for him because he preforms the gross movements with his wrist, and "picks" with his fingers.

And "I'm pretty sure that 10x better than petrucci is impossible?" - Ask petrucci! He'll say theres not much of a limit on playing, and if petrucci is your idea of perfect technique - not that he's not brilliant, if you're sensitive about it - then broaden your horizons!

scheck006
04-09-2006, 06:25 PM
Not to mention that a few posts back we have discovered that you dont anchor, you only mute unwanted strings - which is slightly different to actually ANCHORING. Oui?



I was under the impression that any part of your hand touching the guitar was anchoring. from this post.

.

Palm muting does require a rest on the bridge, but after the mute, you should completely separate your hand from the bridge.

Freepower
04-09-2006, 06:37 PM
^ fair enough, he's even more purist than me. And yes, its perfectly possible to right hand mute like that. When i float that much my thumb lightly brushes only the string directly below the one im picking - and the ones above are left hand. :) Basically, after the mute, the hand raises.

scheck006
04-09-2006, 06:45 PM
can you show me an article where it says morse has carpal tunnel?

Freepower
04-09-2006, 07:10 PM
http://www.jemfest.com/jemfest_radio/JFtv_STEVE_MORSE_110603.rm

Somewhere in that. :)

scheck006
04-09-2006, 07:21 PM
hold on...let me listen to it. FOR AN HOUR! :p:

scheck006
04-09-2006, 07:25 PM
what he said was.


everyone's got that carpal tunnel stuff when you've been doing things with your hands for a long time.

and he said he's been playing for 38 years.

Zamboni
04-09-2006, 07:35 PM
steve morse is known for his picking technique. I can't believe how you are insulting him. definitely not the open minded, non-ignorant thing to do.

I never insulted Morse, nor any other guitarist. Thanks for the bullshit.


I was replying to the statement of "its going to hurt you later"

I figured that someone who's been doing it for 30 years, and hasn't gotten hurt, would be of some value to my point that its not going to cause any wrist problems or damage.
As Freepower already said, he's got carpal tunnel. An extremely common side effect from incorrect picking technique in guitarists.


of course hammering nails with your hands will actually cause pain, so I have no clue in how this relates to anchoring. I can see why you chose this example though, it's because your desperate to prove to me that your way of doing things is right, and even though you've said you could care less about the way I do things...you're still trying to make me look like an idiot.
1) I don't need to make you look like an idiot, you're doing a perfectly good job of it yourself.

2) Apprarently you don't understand the concept of a "metaphor", so I'll dumb down the previous statement for you to understand: If someone practices something WRONG for a very long time very diligently, they may very well get good at it. This does not mean, however, that the way they have practiced it is necessarily the most correct or most efficient way.

Capiche?


yea...tenfold better guitar players. I'm pretty sure that 10x better than petrucci is impossible. Is there any reasoning behind this statement? seeing as how you're saying I'm ignorant and all, I'm just wondering if there was anything you were basing this upon. other than the way you like to play guitar.
O.K., kid, let's get this straight before you completely convince me you are mildly retarded: Free-hand playing is NOT my way of playing. I didn't invent it. I didn't even like it up until I decided to dedicate pretty much my life to music and playing guitar. It is an extremely efficient way to eliminate tension while playing, as well as allowing your true speed and dexterity to come through.

Now that that's (hopefully) done with, I'll tell you my reasoning behind the statement you are referring to: Anchoring slows down guitarists. That's not an opinion, or a bias, or anything like that. It's a goddamn fact.

If you don't believe me, believe physics. Physics will tell you that the least amount of surface area interacting with another surface equals less friction, and therefore, more speed.


if they are the product of practice, then the only reason you have for not being as good as them, is laziness. In fact, it should be 10x easier for you to achieve their level. seeing as how you're not even close, I can only assume that you're 10x as lazy as them.
I like how you're on my ass about apparently judging your guitar abilities, and yet you make a completely uneducated statement on my playing.


there's something that's called gravity. its really nice because your hand will stick to the guitar without having to press it! seeing as how the guitar is lower than your elbow of course.
Yeah, well bud, sorry to burst your bubble, but gravity pushes things down, not sideways.

So unless you play exclusively on your back, your theory is kind of out the window...

Freepower
04-09-2006, 07:47 PM
what he said was.


everyone's got that carpal tunnel stuff when you've been doing things with your hands for a long time.

and he said he's been playing for 38 years.


Yes, but he also has to douse his hands in hot then cold water for an hour before a gig. Dont selectively quote to hide his pain. RSI, carpal, they're all a ****ing bitch - i have problems right now from stretch legato, and to dismiss it as "everyone" is wrong. I know where i made my practicing mistakes. Wrist position was not 100% perfect, and the more you play, the bigger your stretches, the less you'll get away with it.

Anchoring bull**** aside, take my advice on that. :)

scheck006
04-09-2006, 07:59 PM
I like how you're on my ass about apparently judging your guitar abilities, and yet you make a completely uneducated statement on my playing.





does this mean your better than petrucci? that's hard to believe. i'm sorry. I was clearly making an uneducated assumtion

Zamboni
04-09-2006, 08:07 PM
does this mean your better than petrucci? that's hard to believe. i'm sorry. I was clearly making an uneducated assumtion
I didn't say I was better or worse than anyone.

I simply know what's good practice and what is not.

(Nice rebuttle by the way... :rolleyes: )

Resiliance
04-09-2006, 08:09 PM
How can someone be BETTER than Petrucci? Seriously, WHAT?

And man, do you EVER give up, even though you've been proven wrong a multitude of times?

scheck006
04-09-2006, 08:16 PM
that's a subjective thing to say.

Night_Lights
04-09-2006, 10:42 PM
^basically your arguement boils down to personal preference, whatever feels comfortable. then i guess i should stop using my pinkie and alt picking and just do downstrokes :rolleyes:

metalmaster362
04-09-2006, 11:27 PM
well steve morse has been doing it for 30 years.

actually u got the wrong picking technique for morse and pettrucci if u say that they never bend there wrist when they play, they both change strings by moving there elbows up and down sorry, nice try

and theres no point i arguing in this btw its whatever works for that person

scheck006
04-10-2006, 12:35 AM
actually u got the wrong picking technique for morse and pettrucci if u say that they never bend there wrist when they play, they both change strings by moving there elbows up and down sorry, nice try

and theres no point i arguing in this btw its whatever works for that person

morse on his instructional video says that he doesn't pick from the elbow, but from the wrist. nice try


[quote]and theres no point i arguing in this btw its whatever works for that person[quote]

that's my whole argument. obviously I'm wrong though

Sir Edwin CBE
04-10-2006, 11:03 AM
If picking from the wrist is not a cause of carpal tunnel then anchoring is fine.

Zamboni
04-10-2006, 11:33 AM
If picking from the wrist is not a cause of carpal tunnel then anchoring is fine.
It is a cause of carpal tunnel though.

Freepower
04-10-2006, 11:55 AM
^ a lot of things can cause carpal, its mostly tension and joint angling though.

Basically, picking in any form is unlikely to cause CT, IF your joints are properly loose and angled.

axe_grinder247
04-10-2006, 12:27 PM
all this arguing back and forth is pointless...bottom line is, zam is right, and some mediocre little boy is trying to back up the fact that his technique isn't incorrect because petrucci or morse does the same thing...a classic quarrel...but like zam said before, you can get better at hammering nails with your hand after doing it long enough...if you don't want to end up with carpal tunnel or arthritis or whatnot, then good technique is the key, and anchoring is NOT good technique, regardless of who does it or how good they are

scheck006
04-10-2006, 08:43 PM
It is a cause of carpal tunnel though.

nice fact ;)

all this arguing back and forth is pointless...bottom line is, zam is right, and some mediocre little boy is trying to back up the fact that his technique isn't incorrect because petrucci or morse does the same thing...a classic quarrel...but like zam said before, you can get better at hammering nails with your hand after doing it long enough...if you don't want to end up with carpal tunnel or arthritis or whatnot, then good technique is the key, and anchoring is NOT good technique, regardless of who does it or how good they are


and what gives you and zam so much authority? you have yet to prove that anchoring is harmful or less accurate.

Vital remains
04-10-2006, 08:49 PM
anchoring is retarded. it limits string skipping capabilities

Slurgi
04-10-2006, 09:52 PM
anchoring is retarded. it limits string skipping capabilities


Before you get hounded by the attack squad, I'll just go ahead and tell you that you're wrong. You can still do everything unanchored that you can do anchored.

(By my own admission, I anchor. Although this thread is somewhat convincing to switch to not anchoring... hmm....)

Resiliance
04-10-2006, 10:16 PM
^Uhm, I think you misunderstood his post Slurgi...

Slurgi
04-10-2006, 10:54 PM
^Uhm, I think you misunderstood his post Slurgi...

... :confused:

Apparently?

Zamboni
04-10-2006, 11:35 PM
nice fact ;)
From MusiciansHealth.com:

"A fourth factor is any occupation that involves direct compression upon the carpal tunnel itself. The major player here is use of a computer mouse. Most people will rest their wrists on mouse pad, and extend the hand and fingers to click the button. This posture puts direct pressure on the area of the carpal tunnel. A prolonged posture such as this will lead to nerve compression. Of course, the same goes for anyone who wrests their wrists on the wrist pad or table top."

This can be directly applied to the resting of the wrist on a guitar's bridge.

radiantmoon
04-10-2006, 11:37 PM
From MusiciansHealth.com:

"A fourth factor is any occupation that involves direct compression upon the carpal tunnel itself. The major player here is use of a computer mouse. Most people will rest their wrists on mouse pad, and extend the hand and fingers to click the button. This posture puts direct pressure on the area of the carpal tunnel. A prolonged posture such as this will lead to nerve compression. Of course, the same goes for anyone who wrests their wrists on the wrist pad or table top."

This can be directly applied to the resting of the wrist on a guitar's bridge.

so do yu keep your wrist off the table when you use your mouse coz that would be ****en annoying!!!

Zamboni
04-10-2006, 11:41 PM
so do yu keep your wrist off the table when you use your mouse coz that would be ****en annoying!!!
I try to keep my wrist off the edge of the table at least.

scheck006
04-10-2006, 11:45 PM
"A fourth factor is any occupation that involves direct compression upon the carpal tunnel itself. The major player here is use of a computer mouse. Most people will rest their wrists on mouse pad, and extend the hand and fingers to click the button. This posture puts direct pressure on the area of the carpal tunnel. A prolonged posture such as this will lead to nerve compression. Of course, the same goes for anyone who wrests their wrists on the wrist pad or table top."

radiantmoon
04-10-2006, 11:46 PM
"A fourth factor is any occupation that involves direct compression upon the carpal tunnel itself. The major player here is use of a computer mouse. Most people will rest their wrists on mouse pad, and extend the hand and fingers to click the button. This posture puts direct pressure on the area of the carpal tunnel. A prolonged posture such as this will lead to nerve compression. Of course, the same goes for anyone who wrests their wrists on the wrist pad or table top."

well i will take my chances!!

John Kimble
04-11-2006, 12:29 AM
Sometimes anchoring is better, you have to admit it. Lightly resting your palm on the bridge allows for quick and easy muting, it really helps clean up ringing strings and whatnot. As long as it is not constricting your hand to one spot, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. It is often simply more comfortable to rest your hand in a spot then to keep it floating, and then use the floating techniqe for when you want big movements. A good player will use a combonation of both, because there are advantages and disadvantages to both techniques. When you are not string skipping or sweeping, there is no need for a floating hand so a light anchor on the bridge actually gives you an advantage.

Sir Edwin CBE
04-11-2006, 08:50 AM
I knew that using a mouse could lead to RSI but not carpal tunnel.

And on that note it seems I'm fu(ked anyway.

Zamboni
04-11-2006, 10:28 AM
Sometimes anchoring is better, you have to admit it. Lightly resting your palm on the bridge allows for quick and easy muting, it really helps clean up ringing strings and whatnot.
A good player will not need to "clean up" ringing strings with a rested palm.

As long as it is not constricting your hand to one spot, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.
That is exactly what anchoring is! Constricting your hand to one spot is precisely how anchoring works.

It is often simply more comfortable to rest your hand in a spot then to keep it floating, and then use the floating techniqe for when you want big movements.
Comfort does not necessarily equal good technique, and in fact, if you took the time to increase your free-hand playing skill, you will notice that it is much more comfortable to keep your hand and wrist in a floating position than it is to plant it on a guitar body.

A good player will use a combonation of both, because there are advantages and disadvantages to both techniques. When you are not string skipping or sweeping, there is no need for a floating hand so a light anchor on the bridge actually gives you an advantage.
Again, a good player will realize that there is nothing you can't get from floating that you can get from anchoring, and will realize that anchoring serves no other purpose than a crutch and a hinderance on a person's playing.

scheck006
04-11-2006, 02:08 PM
A good player will not need to "clean up" ringing strings with a rested palm.




then how do you clean up ringing strings? strings ring when you aren't even playing them. that has nothing to do with your technique. especially at high gain/high volume situations

Zamboni
04-11-2006, 02:55 PM
then how do you clean up ringing strings? strings ring when you aren't even playing them. that has nothing to do with your technique. especially at high gain/high volume situations
With a fretting hand mute some of the time, but I mean, somtimes yes, you do need to mute with your palm. But that doesn't mean you need to rest your palm on the guitar all the time.

As I've said before, palm muting and other momentary palmed things on the guitar is not a bad thing necessarily. But a constant rest is not good at all.

scheck006
04-11-2006, 04:28 PM
so a momentary solution to a constant problem?

Sir Edwin CBE
04-11-2006, 05:55 PM
I just read the mouse pad-carpal tunnel quote again.

It says that if you rest your hand then stretch your fingers to reach the buttons, so since I have me fingers on the buttons in the first place and then rest me hand then I'm fine.

So using this logic if you keep relaxed ( like you should ) and have your hand in sensible position then they'd be no damage done(?)

scheck006
04-11-2006, 06:18 PM
that has nothing to do with your wrist, your wrist doesn't move when you use the mouse. its the fact that you have your wrist bent up and then you use your fingers

Freepower
04-11-2006, 06:39 PM
so a momentary solution to a constant problem?

If its a constant problem, then you're obviously doing something wrong. Seriously, seriously wrong.

I mute with my right hand, by allowing my thumb to touch strings as it comes down from the float for the next stroke - if my strings have time to start ringing in between pickstrokes, then damn me to hell, i dont know WHAT will stop the ****ers.

Zamboni
04-11-2006, 07:24 PM
I mute with my right hand, by allowing my thumb to touch strings as it comes down from the float for the next stroke
Yeah I do that too, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

radiantmoon
04-12-2006, 12:28 AM
so what percentage of players would you say anchor to not anchor?

scheck006
04-12-2006, 12:36 AM
well good players that know anything about guitar its 0% to 100% obviously

Zamboni
04-12-2006, 11:37 AM
well good players that know anything about guitar its 0% to 100% obviously
Well at least you're not sarcastic. :rolleyes:

Freepower
04-12-2006, 02:14 PM
You still havent given us one reason why we should anchor. Try me.

wynter
04-12-2006, 03:16 PM
I am having trouble understanding what constitutes anchoring.

When I pick, the tips my ring finger and little finger rest very lightly on my guitar. If I lift them up so they are straight or curl them towards my palm I can still pick unhindered using exactly the same motion. The only reason I leave them resting on the guitar is because this leaves my hand in a relaxed position which requires no concious effort to maintain. If i sweep pick or skip strings, the very end of my little finger remains in contact with the guitar but it is not fixed to any one point, just brushing the surface. My thumb mutes during picking and sweeping, my palm during rhythm and both during tapping. Do I play anchored or not?

edg
04-12-2006, 03:44 PM
Oh god! I'm glad I didn't see this thread earlier.

I'm convinced arguing with anyone who promotes anchoring, or says its only a
preference, or says "Player X does it" is like arguing with your shoe.

They just don't get it.

It's NOT about palm muting or any other technique. It's NOT about copying someone
else's playing. It's NOT about comfortable. It's NOT about preference.

It IS about practice, learning and acquiring better control and accuracy of the
pick using your arm.

When you HAVE to keep your hand on the guitar to steady it for intricate picking
you're using anchoring as a crutch. Your speed suffers, your fluidity suffers.
Relaxation suffers.

The way to get the control is PRACTICE without anchoring and get GOOD at it.
It's harder. Lazy people don't like harder. But it will pay out with results.

When you're PLAYING. It doesn't matter. Stand on your head if you want. Glue
your hand to the guitar. Whatever you feel and what the music calls for is all that
matters. When you need to call on a nice fluid speed run across strings, your
practice without anchoring will be put to good use whether you realize it or not.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. The wrongest statement I've ever seen is "Play however
is comfortable. That's what's right." Settling into comfort is the fast path to
mediocrity. You progress by pushing your boundaries. Taking something that is
initially uncomfortable and hard and making it comfortable is the path to progress.
Good players make it look easy and comfortable, because it is. To THEM. They
worked to make it so. If you tried the same things, you'd probably find it very
definitely UNcomfortable.

scheck006
04-12-2006, 04:31 PM
You still havent given us one reason why we should anchor. Try me.

I really don't care if you anchor or not

Freepower
04-12-2006, 04:41 PM
^ i really care if you do, and many other people - i make it my business to know as much about guitar as possible so i can A) help myself, and B) help others. Im perfectly open to suggestions so i can add provisions to my current view on anchoring. I'd like to hear them for purposes other than argument - why anchor?

scheck006
04-12-2006, 04:54 PM
well its a reference point for your hand so you know where it is. this allows you to feel where the strings are at in relation to your pick better. when I anchor its just my palm lightly laying on the bridge/lower strings.

Zamboni
04-12-2006, 07:51 PM
well its a reference point for your hand so you know where it is. this allows you to feel where the strings are at in relation to your pick better.
Translation:

it's a crutch

And that's all that it is. A practiced player will not need a "reference point" to know where their own hand in relation to their strings is. An anchor simply acts as an easy way out for a lazy musican.

In fact, when you don't anchor, there is just one less point of interference to obstruct your playing.

E.g.

Anchor: (1) Upper Arm---> (2) Lower Arm---> (3) Wrist---> (4) Body of Guitar---> (5) Pick---> (6) Strings

Non-anchor: (1) Upper Arm---> (2) Lower Arm---> (3) Wrist---> (4) Pick---> (5) Strings

Tension... GONE!

scheck006
04-13-2006, 12:38 AM
just because it helps doesn't mean its a crutch??? you use a crutch when you can't do something otherwise.

Zamboni
04-13-2006, 10:48 AM
just because it helps doesn't mean its a crutch??? you use a crutch when you can't do something otherwise.
But you can do it otherwise. The reason you won't is simply because you're lazy and stubborn.

Jarrott
04-13-2006, 10:55 AM
But you can do it otherwise. The reason you won't is simply because you're lazy and stubborn.

You're just really pushing the point too much now :p: . I really don't think people are being lazy or stubborn, it's more of a comfort thing, it's just human instinct.

edg
04-13-2006, 10:57 AM
You're just really pushing the point too much now :p: . I really don't think people are being lazy or stubborn, it's more of a comfort thing, it's just human instinct.

No. It really is being lazy and stubborn.

Jarrott
04-13-2006, 11:00 AM
I love opinions.

:cheers:

Zamboni
04-13-2006, 11:09 AM
it's more of a comfort thing
A.K.A. laziness.

I could do alot of things because it's the comfortable thing to do. That doesn't mean it's the right way to do it.

And I was really only refferring to scheck for that comment, as he seems to be the most adamently opposed to non-anchoring for whatever reason.

Most people on here are open to suggestions and realize the benefits of not anchoring, which is nice to see. I've received a couple PM's regarding this subject asking for my help and opinions, and I'm glad to help any way that I can.

Jarrott
04-13-2006, 11:18 AM
^
Like wise, I love opinions, and I love open-mindedness:

Though I am on your side, I still disagree it's laziness. I know a lot of people who are in the learning stage of not anchoring, it's really not the easiest thing to get adjusted to, it takes time. When I first started learning guitar I didn't anchor. It took me longer then most of my friends to learn how to play, but now I own them at guitar [in speed & accuracy] due to my great dedication.

Then again, maybe a lot of people are just plain lazy, stubborn fools :p: .

edg
04-13-2006, 11:18 AM
Yeah, comfort really has no place for anyone who's serious about making progress.
(I'm not talking about physical comfort and relaxation which is critical).

If you're really happy with the way you're currently picking and you feel like you
can play everything you want to play, anchoring or not, then there's no reason
why you should change.

On the other hand, you may feel like you've hit a wall and the way you're currently
picking is not getting you anywhere no matter what you do. At that point, you
should really take an honest look at what you're doing, and be willing to try
something completely different even though it may feel like starting over from
scratch.

Jarrott
04-13-2006, 11:36 AM
Yeah, comfort really has no place for anyone who's serious about making progress..

I've never been on UG to argue with people or tell someone that they're wrong... but that statement pisses me right off. How can you even tell me that I'm not serious about making just based off that one statement I made?

Zamboni
04-13-2006, 11:41 AM
I've never been on UG to argue with people or tell someone that they're wrong... but that statement pisses me right off. How can you even tell me that I'm not serious about making just based off that one statement I made?
He's not necessarily refferring to you. He's just making a statement, and he's completely right.

Jarrott
04-13-2006, 01:37 PM
He's not necessarily refferring to you. He's just making a statement, and he's completely right.

And who else would he be referring to :p: ?

That's great that you think he's right, coming from the guy that's "open-minded" :rolleyes: . Say what you will though, really. I stand by how I play guitar and I play guitar quite dandy, so I've got nothing to complain about :cool: .

To go back on-topic, when it comes down to anchoring, it's a matter of opinion as this thread obviously displays. A lot of people anchor to give themselves stability and never get used to playing without using this technique, so it's just natural to them. Does it make you a bad guitarist? No. Look at theory for example. It's not necessary to learn, though in the end it will help you -- just like non-anchoring will make you play faster :cheers: .

scheck006
04-13-2006, 01:47 PM
A.K.A. laziness.


And I was really only refferring to scheck for that comment, as he seems to be the most adamently opposed to non-anchoring for whatever reason.


when I have I ever said It was wrong to not anchor? when have I ever said I was opposed to it?

edg
04-13-2006, 01:48 PM
And who else would he be referring to :p: ?


As a matter of fact, I wasn't referring to you. I was commenting on Zamboni's
previous statement about comfortable and not necessarily being the right thing
to do. So, don't get your panties in a bunch.

El CumanÚs
04-13-2006, 03:04 PM
What is the main issue of anchoring? To play at high speed across strings or to tremolo pick at one string?.

Jarrott
04-13-2006, 04:56 PM
Yeah, comfort really has no place for anyone who's serious about making progress.
(I'm not talking about physical comfort and relaxation which is critical).

That's bashing a belief I have. So yeah, it does still refer to me. Just because you don't direct your words towards me doesn't mean it doesn't count :rolleyes: .

Sir Edwin CBE
04-13-2006, 05:15 PM
It's all preference - try one and the other and just decide for yourself.

Freepower
04-13-2006, 05:17 PM
^ you choose to take it personally, so they're refering to you?

Er...

Anyway, he's right. If you're comfortable with what you're doing, you wont improve. You wanna pick faster? Then you're going to have to change something. Thats what he means by not being comfortable.

Believe it or not, 0 change = 0 improvement. :p:

Whether thats as simple as developing more muscle or as complex as learning strict inside picking. :)

Jarrott
04-14-2006, 01:23 AM
But it's just... it's anchoring, like come on. "Not serious about improvement", I really do think that's taking it too far, and that's the point I was getting to. If I was blantantly denying that theory helps develop skill, then yeah, he could state a comment like that and I wouldn't of been bothered by it.

It just offended me, 'tis all :p: .

T_R_A_P_T
04-14-2006, 08:19 AM
why is it so hard not to anchor? i was anchoring till the point where i read this thread and it took me like 2 goes to playing fluently without anchoring..

Unledded
04-14-2006, 09:19 AM
I need the help of some non anchoring people/purist like Freepower and Zam and etc...

If I rest the middle of my forearm on the guitar but the rest of my arm is floating, is this considered anchoring?

thanks

edg
04-14-2006, 09:48 AM
I wouldn't consider the forearm resting on the guitar anchoring. That still allows
the range of motion of your hand. Without some support for your arm, your
shoulder will more easily rise and tense up which isn't a good thing. But, its not
a bad idea to practice it as long as you can keep your shoulder relaxed.

Freepower
04-14-2006, 09:54 AM
I need the help of some non anchoring people/purist like Freepower and Zam and etc...

If I rest the middle of my forearm on the guitar but the rest of my arm is floating, is this considered anchoring?

thanks

Rest it against the guitar? No.

Press it against the guitar? Yes. :)

edg
04-14-2006, 10:23 AM
What is the main issue of anchoring? To play at high speed across strings or to tremolo pick at one string?.

Mainly the first one.

Tarzan_man
04-14-2006, 02:22 PM
I let my pinky and sometimes ring finger rest around the pickupring. the pinky edge of my hand rests on the bridge lightly for a bit of palm muting. Personally I've tried not anchouring at all, and It didn't help me at all. Made me less acurate and slowed down my picking speed. In my opinion Anchoring is just better and I don't see any downside to it.

All this increase tension stuff just seems totally retarded. how can holding your hand above the guitar have less tension that resting it on it? Hold your hand up in the air, tension yes? now hold it up again, but this time support it on something. Not as much tension now is there?

As for speed...MAB anchors with his pinky, middle and ring fingers. Don't believe me watch His DVD Speed Kills. And he is the fasted guitar player I've heard bear in mind I don't listen to much shred. Shawn lane might be faster, I havne't heard him, but powerfreak talks about him alot.

So...there is my 2 cents on the subject.

Freepower
04-14-2006, 03:07 PM
Shawn might be faster?

Try doing this anchored, it'll rip your fingers off! :p:

And just so you dont get the idea he's some mindless chops monster - take a look at this http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6903405308893996584&q=shawn+lane&pl=true

Enjoy! :D

wynter
04-14-2006, 03:31 PM
Anchored or not, how many of us can play 19nps? And realistically, no, my fingers are not about to detach themselves from my hand.

To me the only way you could create 'tension' is to actually make an effort to press onto the guitar. I'd call that creating tension, as opposed to resting any part of the hand on the guitar. If I rest my hand on a table am I creating tension?

How can people just make snap judgements and proclaim 'you're creating tension'/'you're doing it wrong' etc., never having seen/experienced all the different picking styles everyone is using?

edg
04-14-2006, 03:48 PM
To me the only way you could create 'tension' is to actually make an effort to press onto the guitar.

The thing about tension is that you become acclimized to it and for the most part
you don't even realize you have any (think someone concentrating real hard and
thier face gets all screwed up). Generally it builds and spreads the faster you
try and play, but probably even just playing some things slowly will cause a lot
of it. It happens to pretty much everyone.

If you don't make a concsious effort to be aware of it, you'll probably miss it and it
can be sympathetic tension from your fingers to anywhere in your body.

Personally I believe finding and reducing tension is major factor in playing better.
If you don't, then I guess don't bother with it.

scheck006
04-14-2006, 08:27 PM
Anchored or not, how many of us can play 19nps? And realistically, no, my fingers are not about to detach themselves from my hand.

To me the only way you could create 'tension' is to actually make an effort to press onto the guitar. I'd call that creating tension, as opposed to resting any part of the hand on the guitar. If I rest my hand on a table am I creating tension?

How can people just make snap judgements and proclaim 'you're creating tension'/'you're doing it wrong' etc., never having seen/experienced all the different picking styles everyone is using?

the real answer to that question is that you should try to get good at all the different ways, because they all have advantages/disadvantages. none of them are wrong or right.

Zamboni
04-14-2006, 09:52 PM
none of them are wrong or right.
You just keep thinkin' that... :rolleyes:

scheck006
04-15-2006, 01:19 AM
and you keep on taking yourself way too seriously :cheers:

wynter
04-15-2006, 09:37 AM
You just keep thinkin' that... :rolleyes:

That is staggeringly narrow minded.

Sir Edwin CBE
04-15-2006, 10:12 AM
This thread is turning into people arguing over each others mindsets. It's not about anchoring anymore.

Halfway through this thread someone asked what the "right people" mean by anchoring. The reply was if you press a part of your body against the guitar and create tension. In this case halkf the people that do anchor will be alright and not have any problems. The other half will want to experiemnt to make sure that they don't have any tension at all.

I tried the resting the pinky on the guitar before and it created tension and slowed down my playing - I also tried it last night and I was playing without any problems, all I did was make sure that I was relaxed.

Erc
04-15-2006, 10:30 AM
That is staggeringly narrow minded.


And that was staggeringly retarded.

There is the way that works, and the way that works better. Unanchored being the better.

wynter
04-15-2006, 11:50 AM
And that was staggeringly retarded.

There is the way that works, and the way that works better. Unanchored being the better.

The point I was getting at was that to define one style as completely wrong and the other as the opposite, is in my opinion really narrow minded. Obviously one style will work better than others for the majority of people, but I don't see that as a reason to completely reject different approaches.

Jarrott
04-15-2006, 04:45 PM
And that was staggeringly retarded.

There is the way that works, and the way that works better. Unanchored being the better.

It works better for some. That's what you need to realize.

Sir Edwin CBE
04-15-2006, 05:01 PM
Someone should close this thread - it's just like a versus thread - IT'S ALL OPINION.

Erc
04-15-2006, 06:39 PM
The point I was getting at was that to define one style as completely wrong and the other as the opposite, is in my opinion really narrow minded. Obviously one style will work better than others for the majority of people, but I don't see that as a reason to completely reject different approaches.


It works better for some. That's what you need to realize.

Holy hell that sounded so post-modern it wasn't even funny 0_o. There are truths and absolutes out there just to let you know. Not every thing is relative.

Hows this, you guys find me a video of SOMEBODY playing faster/cleaner/and more difficult licks then Shawn Lane while anchoring their hand and I'll retaract my statement. Until then my statement stands. There are those who can play well, and those who can play AMAZINGLY well. Those who are amazing don't anchor.

Zamboni
04-15-2006, 07:20 PM
It works better for some. That's what you need to realize.
No, it'll work better for anyone if they give it enough of a chance and don't punk out because it's difficult at first.

Jarrott
04-15-2006, 07:47 PM
There are those who can play well, and those who can play AMAZINGLY well. Those who are amazing don't anchor.

hahaha, you have got to be kidding me? There's TONS of amazing players who anchor, so don't even try to pull that.

As for Shawn Lane, that guy shreds like no other, but I know I couldn't stand listening to shred for more then 10 minutes before getting bored :p: .

No, it'll work better for anyone if they give it enough of a chance and don't punk out because it's difficult at first.

I agree, non-anchoring does increase speed, I never said it didn't. I'm a non-anchorer myself, however I do believe anchoring gives you better accuracy when you're not aiming for faster NPS.

Erc
04-15-2006, 08:56 PM
hahaha, you have got to be kidding me? There's TONS of amazing players who anchor, so don't even try to pull that.

As for Shawn Lane, that guy shreds like no other, but I know I couldn't stand listening to shred for more then 10 minutes before getting bored :p: .



I agree, non-anchoring does increase speed, I never said it didn't. I'm a non-anchorer myself, however I do believe anchoring gives you better accuracy when you're not aiming for faster NPS.


That last statement is ridiculous. Speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

Also there arn't any "Amazing shredders" out there who anchor. Their all your average run of the mill shredder who technically are good, but don't have dirt on players like Guthrie or Shawn.

Zamboni
04-15-2006, 10:41 PM
I agree, non-anchoring does increase speed, I never said it didn't. I'm a non-anchorer myself, however I do believe anchoring gives you better accuracy when you're not aiming for faster NPS.
Christ, it's not all about speed, idiot. As Erc stated, speed most definitely a by-product of accuracy, and non-anchoring will allow you more accuracy than anchoring ever will.

BigBadBull
04-15-2006, 11:06 PM
zamboni's opinion is not valid because he listens to awful emo music.

BigBadBull
04-15-2006, 11:07 PM
That last statement is ridiculous. Speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

Also there arn't any "Amazing shredders" out there who anchor. Their all your average run of the mill shredder who technically are good, but don't have dirt on players like Guthrie or Shawn.

you win the stupidity award.

Zamboni
04-15-2006, 11:41 PM
zamboni's opinion is not valid because he listens to awful emo music.
Oh John Kimble... :rolleyes:

Erc
04-15-2006, 11:43 PM
^^ Awesome, I love awards. I don't get them much =(. The only reward I ever got that I remember is this writing contest in school that we had to do and that stuff in the 5th grade. I almost won state in it, I would have gotten to meet the governor too. Life is so dissapointing =*(

BTW I don't see what makes my post so stupid, I hold true to my award, I don't even see why I earned it.

Zamboni
04-15-2006, 11:50 PM
^^ Awesome, I love awards. I don't get them much =(. The only reward I ever got that I remember is this writing contest in school that we had to do and that stuff in the 5th grade. I almost won state in it, I would have gotten to meet the governor too. Life is so dissapointing =*(
lolz0rz

scheck006
04-16-2006, 04:27 AM
That last statement is ridiculous. Speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

Also there arn't any "Amazing shredders" out there who anchor. Their all your average run of the mill shredder who technically are good, but don't have dirt on players like Guthrie or Shawn.

lets just look at some of the players who anchor.


alexi laiho
micheal angelo batio
john petrucci
steve morse
yngwie malmsteen
tony macalpine
steve vai
eric johnson
van halen


somehow their opinion has more value in this arguement because


A. they're not teenagers who value their reputation on a forum.
B. they are known for their amazing guitar playing. period


I'm sorry zam, you're just going to have to cope with it. yes, there are people who do things differently than you.

anchoring is not the wrong way to pick. :no:

Someone should close this thread - it's just like a versus thread - IT'S ALL OPINION.

apparantly you're wrong. its not opinion. its plain to see that there's a right and wrong answer to this. but if all my guitar heroes are wrong according to a couple kids on a guitar forum.

then by all means.


wrong is just dandy with me. :peace:

Inahrima
04-16-2006, 05:03 AM
Why on earth do people keep asking this question?!? its the same thing as
"do i have shave my balls?"

:rolleyes: ofcourse you have to

slash_620
04-16-2006, 06:50 AM
Why on earth do people keep asking this question?!? its the same thing as
"do i have shave my balls?"

:rolleyes: ofcourse you have to

You do? :confused:

Freepower
04-16-2006, 08:23 AM
alexi laiho

:haha

micheal angelo batio

And why does he get away so well with it? Its been a matter of study for me, his picking technique, and you can see below if you want. :)

john petrucci

Man, that guy tenses up - watch rock discipline. Do you really want to be able to pick that fast but put that much effort into it when you dont have to? You can pretty much see the exact moment he stops playing fast by the amount he relaxes.

steve morse

Oh, good ol' carpal tunnel.

yngwie malmsteen

If you're going to be a circle picker, then anchoring matters **** all. :)

tony macalpine

Dont have a clue about the details of this guys technique, so i'll leave him alone. :)

steve vai

He doesnt anchor... :confused:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4086648236927930164&q=steve+vai&pl=true - 3:44

eric johnson

Yes, because he's a great alternate picker.

van halen

Yes, he was teh awesome.


somehow their opinion has more value in this arguement because


A. they're not teenagers who value their reputation on a forum.
B. they are known for their amazing guitar playing. period

*cough*

You're putting words into their mouths there, homeboy. What ARE their opinions? I've never, literally never, heard any of them advocating anchoring.

Regarding malmsteen, he's said relaxation is key. MAB, well, he said that the bones of the hand should not flex at all. Course, being an oscillating picker, anchoring doesnt hurt his technique as much as it would others - he's using a "door knocking" motion with his right hand, from the wrist. Put your fingers on the table and thats pretty easy to do compared to a translatory or rotatory movement. :)

A) ?
B) Yes, but so is Hendrix. If you want to talk "perfect picking technique" then you have a different story...



I'm sorry zam, you're just going to have to cope with it. yes, there are people who do things differently than you.

anchoring is not the wrong way to pick. :no:

You've said yourself, its got advantages and disadvantages. The only advantage you can give us is that it gives a reference point at the price of friction, tension and a decreased range of motion.

As opposed to using the last string you touched as a reference, looking, or perhaps even anchoring and then unanchoring once you find your bearings...


apparantly you're wrong. its not opinion. its plain to see that there's a right and wrong answer to this. but if all my guitar heroes are wrong according to a couple kids on a guitar forum.

then by all means.


wrong is just dandy with me. :peace:

We've noticed.

Resiliance
04-16-2006, 09:45 AM
I'd like to mention that just because it LOOKS like they anchor on a video or whatever, it doesn't mean they do.

I LOOK like I anchor when I see myself on video, but I DON'T.

So don't be so presumptuous as to the details of those guys' technique... Because I can guarantee you're wrong on most.


... And GOD-DAMN, some of you blokes are bloody stubborn.

Erc
04-16-2006, 12:28 PM
lets just look at some of the players who anchor.


alexi laiho
micheal angelo batio
john petrucci
steve morse
yngwie malmsteen
tony macalpine
steve vai
eric johnson
van halen


somehow their opinion has more value in this arguement because


Too bad none of them have dirt on Shawn Lane technically, though players like MAB come close. But in complexity

Lane licks > MAB licks

A.) I've long since stopped caring about what others think about anything. I'm happier this way ^_^
B.) Comparitevly (as I am now stating for the 3rd time) those players arn't nearly as technically good as Shawn Lane.

Which proves my point once again, you can become a good player with anchoring, but you can be MUCH better unanchored.

FP and Resi pretty much outline the majority of the rest of my opinions on this matter so I won't bother repeating them.

edg
04-16-2006, 12:30 PM
I'd like to mention that just because it LOOKS like they anchor on a video or whatever, it doesn't mean they do.


Absolutely right. Plus, what's also invloved, is playing vs practicing.

It's a bit similar to the wrist vs elbow debate. If you're just looking at video you
simply cannot tell. In my Jimmy Bruno picking video, he says right up front his
motion comes from the elbow. If you watched him, it looks like wrist. He explains
why it does look like wrist.

Besides, even if someone IS anchoring on a video, it's pretty much irrelevant.
As I've said before, floating hand is a PRACTICE device. When you have the
arm motion and control down from that, it doesn't matter so much if you do or
don't while PLAYING. The only thing that matters when playing is the music.

Inahrima
04-16-2006, 02:06 PM
You do? :confused:


just saying that whether you want to shave your balls or not is totally up to your personal preference :p:

scheck006
04-16-2006, 03:31 PM
Oh, good ol' carpal tunnel.



how can anchoring be the cause when he's got it in both hands?

He doesnt anchor... :confused:


i'm pretty sure he is here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZC9QHc3gLQ&search=steve%20vai



You're putting words into their mouths there, homeboy. What ARE their opinions? I've never, literally never, heard any of them advocating anchoring.


um...but they do it? is that not advocating it?

Freepower
04-16-2006, 03:44 PM
^ no, advocating it would be advocating it.

I would avocate practicing below 60bpm quarter notes, but that doesnt mean i DO it all the time.

Speaking of Vai, crossroads was 86, and that guitar heros concert with brian may, if im right, was 92.

Its almost as if he got it out of his playing on purpose...

Never seen someone start to anchor though... apart from you, and if you want to believe your rhetoric, then your opinion doesnt matter because you're a teenage boy on the internet. Whether your personal experience with guitar matters or not depends on your fame and preference. :rolleyes:

scheck006
04-16-2006, 04:08 PM
I don't really care what you believe. I'm just trying to get you guys to leave people alone and let them play guitar how they want to. telling them there's 2 ways to do something is one thing. its their choice whether or not to anchor. and most of the people we know to have amazing technique do anchor. stop telling them its a beginner thing, stop telling people its wrong. stop telling people its the lazy thing to do.

:peace:

slash_620
04-16-2006, 04:10 PM
Never seen someone start to anchor though... apart from you, and if you want to believe your rhetoric, then your opinion doesnt matter because you're a teenage boy on the internet. Whether your personal experience with guitar matters or not depends on your fame and preference. :rolleyes:

I've been trying to play anchored for the last 2 weeks, i don't know why but i allways thought that other people do it so i should to, it was a real pain though and i hated it, thanks for letting me stop without feeling like a quitter.

Resiliance
04-16-2006, 04:13 PM
I don't really care what you believe. telling them there's 2 ways to do something is one thing. its their choice whether or not to anchor.

That's very true...


and most of the people we know to have amazing technique do anchor.

This certainly isn't.

stop telling them its a beginner thing, stop telling people its wrong. stop telling people its the lazy thing to do.


It is.

mrFood
04-16-2006, 04:14 PM
I usually just rest my hand on the bridge.

Zamboni
04-16-2006, 05:10 PM
I don't really care what you believe. I'm just trying to get you guys to leave people alone and let them play guitar how they want to. telling them there's 2 ways to do something is one thing. its their choice whether or not to anchor. and most of the people we know to have amazing technique do anchor. stop telling them its a beginner thing, stop telling people its wrong. stop telling people its the lazy thing to do.

:peace:
Oh of course it's your choice. But don't for one minute think that anchoring is not the lazy way out, because it most definitely is. It most definitely is a beginner teqnique as well, because as most players progress and get more knowledgeable about their instrument, they start to seek out more efficient and advanced ways of playing.

Of course, there are always those who stay the same; never getting better, never advancing... :peace:

kirbyrocknroll
04-16-2006, 05:16 PM
I usually just rest my hand on the bridge.
I did that too. But I pick much faster now that I don't. Honestly, some of you guys are just stubborn.

It is a person's choice whther he or she wants to anchor, but I believe not anchoring works better. Ask anyone who doesn't play with an anchor with their picking hand. I bet none of them would say that they prefer anchoring over not anchoring.

People who say anchoring is better: Have you even tried not anchoring? And I don't mean playing 5 riffs without an anchor and saying "Oh, this doesn't work, I like anchoring better!". I mean actually trying to learn to anchor. It is uncomfortable first, but you have to give it a chance and "accept it". If you give up right away, no **** you're not going to get more accurate or speedier in picking. If you fight it thinking "No, this won't work it sucks! It is too uncomfortable!" then you aren't going to get anywhere either. You have to try and not be fooled by how not anchoring feels when you first start.

Like I said, I used to anchor, but when you learn to not anchor, I can bet you that you won't want to go back.

-KR :D

NotAJock2Day
04-16-2006, 05:28 PM
I do place my pinky on the body of the guitar, but not attached to anything like a pickup.

I video taped myself jamming and I only do that when I'm on the bottom strings and I naturally unhook myself when I start going higher or play something faster. Weird huh? Because I don't technically grab anything my picking hand moves similar to a joystick. There's no real pressure on my hands as some would say but I also have some loose ligaments and joints in my wrists so I'm a special case. I got out of the habit but since I adjust myself easily and trying to be a shreader is like trying to be a racecar driver in a Model T I don't see a big problem. I prefer to with whatever my hands naturally do, I tend not to think about it. Lately they tend not to anchor too often.

The biggest part of playing guitar well is trusting your hands.

Um... and there are way too many variables that go into playing that can affect growth and such that go completely unoticed. Not to say that trying something that could improve your playing is bad... Maybe the reason you're not playing as fast as Michael Angelo Batio is because there is some nuance of your playing that is hindering your growth. This nuance may not be as noticable or as discussed as anchoring and you might not even know about it throughout your whole life.

scheck006
04-16-2006, 06:04 PM
It is a person's choice whther he or she wants to anchor, but I believe not anchoring works better. Ask anyone who doesn't play with an anchor with their picking hand. I bet none of them would say that they prefer anchoring over not anchoring.

well no **** seeing as that's how they prefer to pick.


People who say anchoring is better: Have you even tried not anchoring? And I don't mean playing 5 riffs without an anchor and saying "Oh, this doesn't work, I like anchoring better!". I mean actually trying to learn to anchor. It is uncomfortable first, but you have to give it a chance and "accept it". If you give up right away, no **** you're not going to get more accurate or speedier in picking. If you fight it thinking "No, this won't work it sucks! It is too uncomfortable!" then you aren't going to get anywhere either. You have to try and not be fooled by how not anchoring feels when you first start.

this is what you people dont' get. :no:

noone has said anchoring was better. noone has tried to force you to anchor (unlike the other side of the argument). its just simply not the wrong way to play. its about how you want to play your guitar.

Freepower
04-16-2006, 06:31 PM
^ believe it or not, we cant actually force you, and nor will we actually force you into playing unanchored. We just dont see it as in any way on par with a floating hand as far as technique goes. Preference, sure. You really want to anchor? Read this thread, say, "Ok, i still want to anchor" and do it. Just dont tell us that its more accurate, faster, looser or easier to learn. It aint, and no-ones disagreed. (yet)

And personally, i would prefer fast and loose picking as opposed to...erm... whatever it is anchoring offers. Perhaps really odd chord picking patterns really DO need a reference point, but no-ones said it yet. :)

Um... and there are way too many variables that go into playing that can affect growth and such that go completely unoticed. Not to say that trying something that could improve your playing is bad... Maybe the reason you're not playing as fast as Michael Angelo Batio is because there is some nuance of your playing that is hindering your growth. This nuance may not be as noticable or as discussed as anchoring and you might not even know about it throughout your whole life.

100% correct. :)

Shoulder tension being a major one, and my current arch enemy.

scheck006
04-16-2006, 06:46 PM
how can you say non anchoring is more accurate though.

Freepower
04-16-2006, 07:20 PM
^ easier motion, and you have one less thing to worry about - ie, your anchor.

When you're playing fast your only realistic point of reference is your last string, anyway - otherwise a millimeter of anchoring being off would lead to all your picking being atrociously innaccurate. Really, when you anchor, you just add another stable point of reference to some others - because you simply havent learnt well enough where your strings are yet.

scheck006
04-16-2006, 07:41 PM
not really. who said the anchor doesn't move?

Freepower
04-16-2006, 07:57 PM
Riiiiiiight. No-one. I just assumed a point of reference would need to be a kind of stationary point that actually made picking easier - rather than just a point from which you then apply learnt spacial awareness to a whole new enviroment.

Ah. Well, if its the latter, then theres even LESS point in anchoring, if you dont even have a point of reference then why do it? There's actually no reason. Every time you pick you have to rely on the only really constant parts of string awareness - the strings.

scheck006
04-16-2006, 08:06 PM
Riiiiiiight. No-one. I just assumed a point of reference would need to be a kind of stationary point that actually made picking easier - rather than just a point from which you then apply learnt spacial awareness to a whole new enviroment.

Ah. Well, if its the latter, then theres even LESS point in anchoring, if you dont even have a point of reference then why do it? There's actually no reason. Every time you pick you have to rely on the only really constant parts of string awareness - the strings.

since when did we start arguing about having a reason to anchor? I think this whole time we've tried to say it was personal preference.

Freepower
04-16-2006, 08:14 PM
We started arguing because you gave the following reasons for anchoring -

you lose accuracy if you don't anchor.

You'll naturally start to come off if you pick too fast, so that's what I do.

just let it go free if you want to pick a million miles and hour.

usually if you are doing that you're not doing some mad inside picking or alternate picking an arpeggio. that's why you can afford a loss in accuracy.


and then we went down the long dark road of bringing guitar gods into it, and then the old fashioned "its just preference...errr, but ones better road" and now we're here, having finally decided that actually, there's no reason to anchor, and lots of reasons not to. Which is bizarrely, what always happens with these threads. :)

scheck006
04-16-2006, 08:17 PM
I still missed the part where you convinced me to stop anchoring.

scheck006
04-16-2006, 08:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0gPkt8Y-HI&search=shawn%20lane

funny...it seems shawn lane says you also need tension...hmmm

Erc
04-17-2006, 12:46 AM
^ I like that lick he plays, I do a similair thing, though its actually min7 arps all over the fretboard, it gives it kind of a spacey sound (and less atonal), its cool.

But anyways...

He's not saying you need (a certain amount of) tension for every lick ever played, for that lick yes (Whether for tonal or playability reasons). And it most certainly isn't tension caused by anchoring. And also while anchoring you have much less control over tension, you can pretty much increase it but trying to lessen it and being able to alternate between lots of tension and a little is quite impossible. (or that was how it was with me when I used to anchor.).

So lets see another +1 for unanchored. You can control amount of tension that you do want in your licks for tonal or playability reasons.

scheck006
04-17-2006, 01:08 AM
why can't you just get rid of the tension and anchor at the same time?

radiantmoon
04-17-2006, 01:14 AM
That last statement is ridiculous. Speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

Also there arn't any "Amazing shredders" out there who anchor. Their all your average run of the mill shredder who technically are good, but don't have dirt on players like Guthrie or Shawn.

ummm their is more to music than shred guitar, your talking like shred is the standard, what crap.and you said find someone who can play things that are more technically difficult,thats a really subjective thing to say as their are numeous techniques, some people are better at vibrato, other better at string beding. Your comparing apples with oranges.

slash_620
04-17-2006, 05:39 AM
Can people stop telling Freepower and other shred guys to stop saying method a is better than method b?

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but i find listening to Freepower and other shred guy fills me with an unrelenting sense of guilt that i'm not practicing enough, so i go practice, and hopefully get better. Like it or not, a lot of us acctualy NEED someone to tell us to we're doing it wrong or not enough before we start doing anything.

Resiliance
04-17-2006, 08:16 AM
ummm their is more to music than shred guitar, your talking like shred is the standard, what crap.and you said find someone who can play things that are more technically difficult,thats a really subjective thing to say as their are numeous techniques, some people are better at vibrato, other better at string beding. Your comparing apples with oranges.

So who's more advanced than Shawn Lane, Allan Holdsworth, and Guthrie Govan?

Why the hell don't you want to be the best you could be?

And scheck... You can't get rid of tension AND anchor because of physiological reasons...

Sir Edwin CBE
04-17-2006, 08:41 AM
Reasons to anchor -

+ If you just rest your hand/pinky on the guitar it is another way of making your hand more stable and gives you more confidence in hitting the right strings. The hand/pinky can move whilst playing faster string skipping riffs or even powerchords that change strings a lot. Therefore gives flexibility and accuracy. Some fingerpickers anchor for these reasons.

+ You anchor without the tension - just lightly rest your hand/pinky - and you'll have no problems with tension. Therefore gives you more speed then with a tensed up arm/hand.

Reasons not to anchor -

- Whether the "pro's" endorse it or not is not the point - you should try both styles of playing. If you prefer anchoring because it allows you to worry less about where your hand is and allow you to concentrate more on other things ( like singing ) then that's your preference. But you should try not anchoring to see if you really have that preference.

Resiliance
04-17-2006, 08:45 AM
If you just rest your hand/pinky on the guitar it is another way of making your hand more stable and gives you more confidence in hitting the right strings. The hand/pinky can move whilst playing faster string skipping riffs or even powerchords that change strings a lot. Therefore gives flexibility and accuracy. Some fingerpickers anchor for these reasons.


So, in other words, it's a crutch.


You anchor without the tension - just lightly rest your hand/pinky - and you'll have no problems with tension. Therefore gives you more speed then with a tensed up arm/hand.


No, there's ALWAYS an amount of tension if you have your finger touching the guitar. You can NOT anchor and all the while be as tension-free as you would be whilst not anchoring. You can NOT.


If people would do what they "preferred" everyone would be downpicking.

Sir Edwin CBE
04-17-2006, 08:51 AM
So, in other words, it's a crutch.

In some ways yes. No-one is saying that it isn't. But some people would say using a pick is a crutch.




No, there's ALWAYS an amount of tension if you have your finger touching the guitar. You can NOT anchor and all the while be as tension-free as you would be whilst not anchoring. You can NOT.

I just said there won't be any problems with tension. It probably does create extra tension but not to a degree where it's detrimental.


If people would do what they "preferred" everyone would be downpicking.

Yes and in some cases like Master Of Puppets it would be easier to play alternate picking but some people ( Metallica ) use all downstrokes because of "preference".

Resiliance
04-17-2006, 08:52 AM
Yes and in some cases like Master Of Puppets it would be easier to play alternate picking but some people ( Metallica ) use all downstrokes because of "preference".

Uh... No.

They use it because of the sound it gives, not because they like the actual technique more...


And every single bit of unneeded tension is detrimental.

MDoggDX316
04-17-2006, 08:53 AM
^i agree

Sir Edwin CBE
04-17-2006, 08:55 AM
So there preference was based on the sound.

Freepower
04-17-2006, 09:20 AM
^ bingo. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0gPkt8Y-HI&search=shawn%20lane

funny...it seems shawn lane says you also need tension...hmmm

Funny, shawn lane is also referring to a technique we call a "pull-off". And tbh, shawn lane with "a certain amount of" tension is about twice as loose as anyone here, eh?

In some ways yes. No-one is saying that it isn't. But some people would say using a pick is a crutch.

Seeing as theres a recent trend of quoting the shawnmeister -

Random Person: "Hey shawn, how come you use a pick? Wes never used a pick."
Shawn: "Well, Wes didnt play as fast as i do."


Anyway, to sum it up better i'll quote a big fat guitar book i have -

"It takes considerable fingerstyle technique to match the linear speed of a plectrum, and considerable plectrum technique to match the rhythmic flexibilty of fingerstyle". Which is pretty much it, i guess.

NotAJock2Day
04-17-2006, 10:15 AM
:o Boring! This topic is boring now.

If you try for extended amount of time NOT to anchor and you really don't like the way it feels then go back to the way you did it before. If you haven't tried to change you should try to argue.

Also, trying to convince someone to change their technique is like trying change a person from writing with their left-hand to their right-hand. They have to want to change, and arguing on either side is pointless.

Zamboni
04-17-2006, 12:19 PM
Freepower is kickin' ass and takin names, kiddies. ;) Listen to him.

Erc
04-17-2006, 12:25 PM
ummm their is more to music than shred guitar, your talking like shred is the standard, what crap.and you said find someone who can play things that are more technically difficult,thats a really subjective thing to say as their are numeous techniques, some people are better at vibrato, other better at string beding. Your comparing apples with oranges.


Nice try, but we are talking about alternate/economy picking technique via the anchor/unanchored. Or thats what I'm talking about because face it, you're picking more when alt-picking and eco picking then you are when playing legato :p:

Guthrie Govan (21 npson) Shawn Lane (18nps) have the fastest recorded alt-picked runs. Lane reputably can go much faster (done during a live performance). This is why I have used them as models of unanchored technique.


Random Person: "Hey shawn, how come you use a pick? Wes never used a pick."
Shawn: "Well, Wes didnt play as fast as i do."

Haha I liked that quote, got a nice laugh out of it.

robak
04-17-2006, 12:36 PM
so do you agree with that http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/guitar_techniques/right_and_left_hand_technique_part_5_-_right_hand_position.html

This is the single worst habit that I have to deal with in the right hands of my students. Most people start by placing one or more fingers on the surface of the guitar, and use that as a tactile guide to where the strings are. Furthermore, many rest their palm on the bridge. These are all bad! The fingers should be loosely curved into the palm, and the right hand should be off the strings and the bridge.

Erc
04-17-2006, 12:48 PM
^ Short answer...

Yes

Freepower
04-17-2006, 01:08 PM
Guthrie Govan (21 npson) Shawn Lane (18nps) have the fastest recorded alt-picked runs. Lane reputably can go much faster (done during a live performance). This is why I have used them as models of unanchored technique.


Now, it took me about 3 days to believe it, but you know that 180bpm lick with sextuplet string skips? The "nines" are genuine nines. It took me about 20 listenings to comprehend it...

Just so you know. No, i dont think its possible either.

And shawn is scarier in slow motion, watch this in slow motion, play the pt file i posted earlier at quarter speed, and lose all hope ye who enter here. :)

http://s55.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1FO4MLY5JZQRH32UIM8LY150PD

scheck006
04-17-2006, 06:32 PM
shawn also used .008s

Freepower
04-17-2006, 06:47 PM
^ yes, as well as a super low action that was 1mm at its highest. Arthritis, tendonitis and various other health problems made it extremely painful for him to play guitar sometimes.

Despite loving shawn-chat, why do you point that out?

scheck006
04-17-2006, 07:30 PM
don't lighter strings reduce tension? less resistance?

so is it wrong to use heavy gauge strings?

Freepower
04-17-2006, 07:52 PM
Is it wrong for metallica to pick with all downstrokes on MoP? Its a tone thing, mostly, but heavier strings also give more return to the pick and a lot of people find them a lot EASIER to play, not harder. And really, with the right conditioning you can play ridiculously well on either - speed is a lot about the RELEASE of tension, not just its application in controlled movement.

scheck006
04-17-2006, 07:59 PM
And really, with the right conditioning you can play ridiculously well on either

is this not the same for anchoring and non anchoring?

Freepower
04-17-2006, 08:07 PM
^ i would count Morse and Petrucci as picking ridiculously well, wouldnt you?

On the other hand, they arent doing quite as well as some other names that have been mentioned a million times already. Yes, you can play very well anchored - but it still limits you. No matter HOW good you are, there is a point where the laws of physics come into play.

That, and anchoring, once conditioned to the kind of point where the analogy is relevant, ceases to become anchoring - the anchored finger, wrist or arm would just come off every three seconds, or just stay up all through fast runs as the playing dictated. The issue here is that anchoring = tension, full stop.

scheck006
04-17-2006, 08:18 PM
the issue here is that anchoring is not ok under any circumstances

Erc
04-17-2006, 08:27 PM
^ No one said that.

Its OKAY for you to do it, go right ahead. But you can be a whole lot better with unanchoring which is what everyone has been saying for the last who knows how many pages and it seems you haven't caught on just yet.

None of us technique *****s are gonna tell you that anchoring is beneficial. So quit trying to get us to. You're persistance is starting to aggrivate me.

scheck006
04-17-2006, 09:03 PM
But you can be a whole lot better with unanchoring which is what everyone has been saying for the last who knows how many pages and it seems you haven't caught on just yet.



do you have any basis for this or are you just going along with your internet buddies?

Zamboni
04-17-2006, 10:50 PM
do you have any basis for this or are you just going along with your internet buddies?
zomg.

Read through the last nine hundred pages of this goddamn thread for the "basis" of our arguments.

I'm honestly starting to think you have a learning disability. That, or you're just too thick-headed/arrogant/lazy to accept the fact that you are limiting yourself.

edg
04-17-2006, 10:57 PM
zomg.

haha. well, just read back to my first post on this thread -- "might as well argue
with your shoe". Either they'll figure it out eventually, are happy with thier
playing anyway, or will end up dropping the guitar out of frustration. Might
as well declare victory and move on....

Zamboni
04-17-2006, 11:10 PM
haha. well, just read back to my first post on this thread -- "might as well argue
with your shoe". Either they'll figure it out eventually, are happy with thier
playing anyway, or will end up dropping the guitar out of frustration. Might
as well declare victory and move on....
True.

/me stands on soap box

"I claim this land in the name of Non-Anchorers across the globe! May all who fell here be condemned to a life of mediocrity and hand/wrist problems!"

mikeman
04-17-2006, 11:29 PM
Can we get a little more creative?

Not all Boxers punch the same. Not all Poets write the same. Not all golfers swing the same. Not all painters paint the same. Not all Guitar players pick the same.

If this was the case, the world would be boring and shitty, and repetitive.

Relevance: An unorthodox approach can be a great one. Anchoring can completley fuck up your style, or it can be an excellent tool of stability.

All people are primates. Monkey see, monkey do. As much as we try to make ourselves superior to the animal kingdom, we are still members of it.

Relevance: Learn from the geniuses before you. Copy what they did long enough to make it your own. If you want to be a classically trained virtuoso, rip off some Segovia. But if you want to be a speed metal shredder, for the love of god, study some MAB.

Accurately comparing two different styles of picking is ridiculous. What would you base it on? Speed? Injuries? Asking Morse, or Batio, or Yngwie? Any method to compare is obviously going to give you ambiguous results.

Relevance: Obviously, Anchoring with the fingers and picking from the shoulder and elbow works for some people, and the classical approach works for others. But in the end, no matter how fast you can shred, it's all about the beauty of the music.

Erc
04-18-2006, 12:28 AM
do you have any basis for this or are you just going along with your internet buddies?

HOLY SHbIT YOU ARE DUMB AS A FUCKING ROCK!! I've been arguing for all of you dumb****s for the past 4pages and you ask me a question like this 0_o...omg.

Hell you even have responded directly with quotes to a few of my posts. You make my dick look smart and all it is good for is fucking around.

I'm not going to repeat myself anymore since I've said the same damn thing about 4 times in a row to you, there isn't going to be a 5th. So you can look in the past 4 pages to see if I was just following "my internet buddies." Here are some hints on what I wrote them on...Lane, Guthrie, Tension, shredders, mediocre.) Face it kid, you've ran out of argument. Your points have been shot down and now you're trying to personally attack someone with a "are you being a sheep" comment. So you get a big immature fuck you. Why? Because you might not be able to understand anything else. ****.

And the REALLY annoying thing is you don't seem to think we are trying to help you at all with your playing. Hell, I anchored for half of my time that I've played guitar, I changed it because of listening to Shawn Lane and FP preaching to me and the rest of the shred forum about oscilattion(sp?) picking. So I've been done the road of anchoring, and guess what, I'll never go back. Oh and it seems as though thats another basis for my argument right there besides me previous 5million posts.

What are you trying to accomplish anyways? Are you trying to get someone to tell you anchoring is just dandy and great and equal with unanchoring so you can feel good about your playing?

Allright on a constructive note...milkmans post.

Milkman you're first 4 sentences sound all nice, and are almost correct. Sentence 2 and 3 = good, beause the way poets write and the way painters paint changees the output of the creation/art.

Musicians on the other hand's creative musical output can not be generalized so easily.

Painters can use different techniques to make their painting look different correct?

Guitarists do the same with legato/tapping/alt-picking etc. but the way they execute the technique (when considering musical output, not the accuracy and speed) doesn't change the phrasing.

For example 2 guitarists playing the same alt-picked line(one anchored and one un-anchored) does not change the order of the notes in the musical phrase.

Here is another example, 2 poets write the same words on a piece of paper, one writes it holding the pen with his mouth, the other with his hand. The meaning of the words isn't changed at all because one held it with his mouth.

In conclusion, the world would not be boring and ****ty if every guitarist picked the same, beause as you said all that matters is the music that comes out.

But then why do we argue over it? Because when un-anchored you give yourself the potential to play faster more complex musical phrases that otherwise un-anchored player could not play due to his bad habit and having to exert so much energy due to the tension.

"I claim this land in the name of Non-Anchorers across the globe! May all who fell here be condemned to a life of mediocrity and hand/wrist problems!"

Hahaha, just to let you know, I got a good laugh out of that and considered sigging it ^_^

radiantmoon
04-18-2006, 12:41 AM
So who's more advanced than Shawn Lane, Allan Holdsworth, and Guthrie Govan?

Why the hell don't you want to be the best you could be?

And scheck... You can't get rid of tension AND anchor because of physiological reasons...

whos more advanced steveie ray vaughan or shawn lane, jimi hendrix or paul gilbert gimme a break, its subjective :peace:

radiantmoon
04-18-2006, 12:49 AM
Nice try, but we are talking about alternate/economy picking technique via the anchor/unanchored. Or thats what I'm talking about because face it, you're picking more when alt-picking and eco picking then you are when playing legato :p:

Guthrie Govan (21 npson) Shawn Lane (18nps) have the fastest recorded alt-picked runs. Lane reputably can go much faster (done during a live performance). This is why I have used them as models of unanchored technique.




Haha I liked that quote, got a nice laugh out of it.

yeah but your basically giving reasons to not anchor for shred guitar, basically saying its a faster way to pick. SPEED has nothing to do with being a good guitar player. whos better steveie ray vaughan or shawn lane, well I think srv is a hell of alot better, and dont say the man doesnt have technique. Im trying to say its subjective when you say one person is better than the other nad how fast you play has nothing to do with it. Plus im not trying anything, i personally dont knw enough about anchoring as opposed to non anchoring to make a valid opinion on it :peace:

radiantmoon
04-18-2006, 12:55 AM
and to everyone going on about anchoring, do you rest your guitar on your left or right leg, because it is better to have your guitar on your left leg in the classical position. better posture and better reach!! I just think it would be ironic if you were preaching not to anchor but played guitar on your right leg!!

Erc
04-18-2006, 01:00 AM
^^ Wrong.

You are a better guitarist based on how fast you can go.

Are you a better musician based on how fast you can go? Of course not. And thats where it comes down to opinion.

Also, although it is a faster way to pick, its also more accurate. as I stated before, speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

As a side note, this thread is about technique. Not music.


EDIT --> To the next post, I play on both positions actually, I switch around. I put it on my left leg when I'm learning/practicing a lick, because as you stated easier reach etc. I put it on my right leg when I'm practicing/playing it because when I play standing up the position of the guitar is closer to it being on my right leg.

radiantmoon
04-18-2006, 01:06 AM
^ Wrong.

You are a better guitarist based on how fast you can go.

Are you a better musician based on how fast you can go? Of course not. And thats where it comes down to opinion.

Also, although it is a faster way to pick, its also more accurate. as I stated before, speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

As a side note, this thread is about technique. Not music.

wrong^^^^

you are not a better guitarist based on how fast you can go, thats a stupid thing to say actually, so malmsteen is a better guitar player than stevie ray vaughan because he can go faster?? dont be stupid. And ive been practicing non ancored and anchored and they both seem as acurate as one another!!! mind you i find sometimes i un anchor natuarally and sometimes i anchor!! and speaking of technique wat leg do you rest your guitar on?

Erc
04-18-2006, 01:13 AM
^ see my edit on that post.

You seemed to not read more then one sentence of my post.

Read it again, and if you don't understand the difference between the spectrum of a musician and the spectrum of a guitarist...well then I'll have to outline it for you and I REALLY don't feel like typing a bunch of more theoretical psychological junk.

radiantmoon
04-18-2006, 01:17 AM
^ see my edit on that post.

You seemed to not read more then one sentence of my post.

Read it again, and if you don't understand the difference between the spectrum of a musician and the spectrum of a guitarist...well then I'll have to outline it for you and I REALLY don't feel like typing a bunch of more theoretical psychological junk.

um no i read your post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and then isaid is malmsteen better than srv coz he can play faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its really comparing apples to oranges because their techniques they use are different!! malmstten is technically better in some aspects and srv is tecnically better in some aspects!!!!! and your not answering because you dont have an answer. I also asked which leg you rest the guitar on.

radiantmoon
04-18-2006, 01:20 AM
well i just read your edit and you should really rest it on ur left leg its far superior to ur right!!! and yes I know you do sometimes but you should do it all the time!!!! my point is it would be ironic to go on about non anchoring being better and not resting your guitar on the better leg!!!

Erc
04-18-2006, 01:33 AM
ARE YOU STUPID!! OMG ****ING HELL GEEZE!!

WHO IS LETTING THESE DUMB****S in this forum!!! ahhh geeze. this is VERY much starting to get on my nerves.

Here let me quote my own post, I'll bold the part that tells you which leg.

^see my edit on that post.

You seemed to not read more then one sentence of my post.

Read it again, and if you don't understand the difference between the spectrum of a musician and the spectrum of a guitarist...well then I'll have to outline it for you and I REALLY don't feel like typing a bunch of more theoretical psychological junk.

^^ Wrong.

You are a better guitarist based on how fast you can go.

Are you a better musician based on how fast you can go? Of course not. And thats where it comes down to opinion.

Also, although it is a faster way to pick, its also more accurate. as I stated before, speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

As a side note, this thread is about technique. Not music.


EDIT --> To the next post, I play on both positions actually, I switch around. I put it on my left leg when I'm learning/practicing a lick, because as you stated easier reach etc. I put it on my right leg when I'm practicing/playing it because when I play standing up the position of the guitar is closer to it being on my right leg.


Geeze you guys are making my head hurt. I'm starting to run in circles beause of yalls lack of reading comprehension.

Could malmsteen play like SRV? Write an original sounding like him, meh probably not. Play a cover? maybe, probably. Not to mention I haven't mentioned malmsteen on pro-side of any of my arguments. Could Guthrie effective utilize techniques SRV used? Yes. Could Al Di Meola do the same? Most definently. Could Paco De Lucia, most definently.

And obviously you didn't get my whole musician vs guitarist thing so here is some psychological theoretical mumbo jumbo.

Musician covers a wide spectrum. A musician is someone who makes music, uses phrasing and insturments to organize sound in a hopefully pleasing manner.

A guitarist is one who plays an insturment, utilizes technique to make different sounds. A guitarist is also a musician, but they are two seperate entities. The guitarist uses the technique to make the sound, the musician organizes it. Same thing could be said of a pianist, he/she uses certain techniques and the musician in him/her utilizes the sounds made by the techniques into organized sound, music.

Why are they seperate? Because they both have different qualities in purpose in the big pictures when you look at it. This is why a guitarist who can play fast is a good guitarist, and one who writes good music is a good musician.

Also you forget that the reason why you go fast is because of the lessened tension and the increased accuracy, so the un-anchoring will make you more accurate (and faster) with whatever techniques you are using in your blues based music or what not.

mikeman
04-18-2006, 01:37 AM
milkmans post. Why must you call me Milkman?!


Milkman you're first 4 sentences sound all nice, and are almost correct. Sentence 2 and 3 = good, beause the way poets write and the way painters paint changees the output of the creation/art.

Musicians on the other hand's creative musical output can not be generalized so easily.

Yes it can. Words on paper, recordings on tape, or sounds eminating from an amp are nothing without the human interpretation of them. They're all equal.



Painters can use different techniques to make their painting look different correct?

Guitarists do the same with legato/tapping/alt-picking etc. but the way they execute the technique (when considering musical output, not the accuracy and speed) doesn't change the phrasing.


For example 2 guitarists playing the same alt-picked line(one anchored and one un-anchored) does not change the order of the notes in the musical phrase.

Here is another example, 2 poets write the same words on a piece of paper, one writes it holding the pen with his mouth, the other with his hand. The meaning of the words isn't changed at all because one held it with his mouth.

WTF! I don't like that analogy. No offence. Writing is EASY. I can do it all I want. I can do it on computer or with a pen or whatever. I'm still writing the same crap either way. The meaning always stays the same whether the writing is black, white, red, or whatever. I can use a fancy pen, or a pencil, and the meaning stays the same.

Guitar is different. First of all, it takes skill. Not only of the mind, but of the body. In writing, you can use any technique you want to write the words, as long as it's legible. In music, every aspect changes it's meaning. It's not as simple as you say.



In conclusion, the world would not be boring and ****ty if every guitarist picked the same, beause as you said all that matters is the music that comes out.

Things would come out the same if everybody picked the same.

Different techinques open up new ways of playing. Different techniques=Different music.


But then why do we argue over it? Because when un-anchored you give yourself the potential to play faster more complex musical phrases that otherwise un-anchored player could not play due to his bad habit and having to exert so much energy due to the tension.


The tension?!?!?!!!!!???!?111?!!??!?!??

Michael Angelo Batio's unorthodox approach gives him the stability he needs to express himself.

Now obviously, it doesn't work for everybody, and some people like you go out of your way to keep others from learning it, rather than accepting it as a good technique. It may result in injury to some, but in theory, it seems to be a good technique.

Erc
04-18-2006, 01:55 AM
Why must you call me Milkman?!

sorry =(, I miss read. Heh, its kind of funny though ^_^

Words on paper, recordings on tape, or sounds eminating from an amp are nothing without the human interpretation of them.

Right.

Things would come out the same if everybody picked the same.

Different techinques open up new ways of playing. Different techniques=Different music.

You seemed to have missed my point. Anchoring and Un-anchoring isn't a seperate technique, its a seperate way of executing a technique, just about any technique that requires picking. And if everyone picked EXACTLY the same, the only thing that wouldn't differentiate is the tonal characteristics that resulted in the pick angle/force/whatever through the same amp/guitar.


Batio's approach isn't unorthodox, its been used since the 70s at least. Its often called "george bensen" picking, or thats what I've seen or as FP calls it "osillaction(sp?)" picking. Many players utilize this, extremely efficient accurate way of picking similair to knocking a door. Hell I even use it. I just happen to use it un-anchored while he does it anchored for whatever reason, probalby because he doesn't need/want to go any faster while doing it. He can play 2 guitars at once anyways.


And what on EARTH makes you think it is "in theory" a good technique. Let see, all the points that have been stated in this thread...again...in another post...again...for the 5000000th time for you stubborn people. This is like arguing with a shoe, I'm soon about to quit.

A.) It causes tension, tension is bad
B.) There is risk (Because of the tension) of developing disesases/conditions/whatever
C.) The tension slows you down
D.) It is not more accurate
E.) It is a, heres a word being said a lot, "crutch"

Erc
04-18-2006, 01:59 AM
Allright so edit button is being a bitch and not working for me.

I'm through with arguing now, tired of running in circles. There is no pros for anchoring that un-anchoring doesn't have.

I am tired of running in circles. I've done it long enough.

Sir Edwin CBE
04-18-2006, 03:09 AM
A.) It causes tension, tension is bad
B.) There is risk (Because of the tension) of developing disesases/conditions/whatever
C.) The tension slows you down
D.) It is not more accurate
E.) It is a, heres a word being said a lot, "crutch"

A is wrong, so is B and C. I can play anchored with my pinky resting and not feel any tension at all. This'll differ for different people.

D - because my hand is more stable it is easier for me to pick out single notes. Thta's the only reason it's more accurate for me.

E - Yes it's a crutch - so I keep on getting told, but I prefer playing this way.

SomeEvilDude
04-18-2006, 06:50 AM
A.) It causes tension, tension is bad
B.) There is risk (Because of the tension) of developing disesases/conditions/whatever
C.) The tension slows you down
D.) It is not more accurate
E.) It is a, heres a word being said a lot, "crutch"

A is wrong, so is B and C. I can play anchored with my pinky resting and not feel any tension at all. This'll differ for different people.

So obviously just because you don't feel the tension, there isn't any? Ever thought that because you play that way, you've developed an.... 'immunity', for want of a better term, to feeling the tension? It's still there, it's just that you can't feel it. And just so you get the point: just beacuse you can't feel it does not mean it's not there.

D - because my hand is more stable it is easier for me to pick out single notes. Thta's the only reason it's more accurate for me.

Well, quite frankly, the 'best' guitarists should know their instrment. They should know the techniques, the technical aspects, the tonal aspects, the whole shabam. So basically, if you have to rely on your anchor to tell you where the next should be played, you're clearly not one of the guitarists that people will ever aspire to be like. By saying you need your anchor to pick out the next notes shows that you don't know your instrument as well as you should do.

E - Yes it's a crutch - so I keep on getting told, but I prefer playing this way.

People who have leg problems walk with a crutch. Therefore, by requiring a crutch for your picking technique means that effectively you have a problem with your picking technique.

Quite simply: I don't even play shred, and since I made my posts earlier in the thread and decided to play non-anchored, I've improved tenfold. It doesn't just apply to shred guitar, technique is general thing that is applied to all styles and genres.
And to the guy who was questioning about technicality being subjective: shut up. You used Hendrix and Vaughan as examples, being subjectively better technically than whoever the shredders you mentioned were (Gilbert was one of them I think, can't remember), and you're wrong. While I too prefer Hendrix and Vaughan, they are not better technically.

Playing unanchored is better, and that's all there is too it. Everyone arguing otherwise, is lazy and not wonderfully competent at their instrument. End of.

Slayer224
04-18-2006, 07:39 AM
^ Well some people might not be lazy but just haven't heard that non-anchoring is better.
Thats why people like you need to educate them.

Stick it to the man yo. :golfclap:

Sir Edwin CBE
04-18-2006, 11:39 AM
I'm all for unanchoring - I just don't see why anchoring is getting the stigma it has, it is obviously helping some people who can then decide if they want to continue playing that way or play floating hand.

I'm only defending that it's preference - and for anyone who wants to know I have never had any tensions when I'm playing anchored but this was AFTER reading this and hearing that your hand should rest and not be pressed down.

edg
04-18-2006, 12:16 PM
Maybe this will put things to rest (but I doubt it :) ).
I went over to the Guitar Priciples forums and copied some quotes from
Ney Mello WRT anchoring. Ney is a world class guitarist and teacher who
studied under Al Dimeola and is coming out with his own 2 DVD set just
on picking technique.

If you've been following this thread and are confused about who is "right",
when in doubt I ALWAYS consider the source of the advice. You can
choose the advice of the "experts" here (who's main qualification seems to
be they have a keyboard, computer and can type), or someone with proven
experience and a track record.


>Among those things you must do is to keep your hand free to
>move without any anchoring. You need to MUTE with your wrist
>area when playing overdriven guitar..or when using the mutola
>technique ,,,,but that is not anchoring for stability.
>
> The stability comes from your entirer forearm control...which
>is demanding and which most players bypass by using the pinkie
>or the fingers on the pickguard,,,,,,,,I understand why....I
>did it too as a beginner but I realised after a month of it
>what the ramifications woiuld be and I stopped doing that.
>
>To give you an idea...I have started to develop my fingerstyle
> classical tremolo but this time with a pick only......so I
>have to pick 3notes on the high E string and one on the low E,
>low A, low D, G...B.......just like flamenco and classical.
>Now thay sort of thing cant be done with immobilizing methods
>.....you have to be free.
>
>You can play lots of great music with a partially
>immobilised hand and be very happy. But since I have
>boundless right hand technique ..my duty is to show others how
>to have it as well.... not limiting ways...why?....because I
>dont know how far anyione wants to go 5 years from
>now.....they may want to play jazz or be able to play at
>Yngwie's level....and they mustt be free to do so if they
>chose to and not have to start all over again.
>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>When I started I did rest my pinky.
>
>I soon realized that it was going to limit me and I stopped that
>bad habit.
>
>You can do anything with enough work and that is what you see
>when you see MARTIN TAYLOR OR PETRUCCI at work,,,, but they
>had to practice much more and much longer to make that work
>for them....do you want to have to work so much more or spend
>the time playing music instead???
>
>These players play inspite that handicap.
>
>MARTIN TAYLOR AND GEORGE BENSON are two players who have
>stated in print that they would not rest the pinky and hold
>the pick Benson style if they couid star over. They wouild be
>playng even more complex than now.
>
>The absolute grand masters like JOHN MC LAUGHLIN AL DI MEOLA,
>SHAWN LANE,JIMMY BRUNO etc..dont rest anything for a
>reason..total freedom.and they play acoustic as well.You cant
>play acoustic with right hand crutches and play at the world
>class level.
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Your right arm should float. No right hand anchoring.
>
>Anchoring is tension inducing and good enough for you to play
>backing basic simple lead guitar for SHANIA TWAIN or THE
>PUSYICAT DOLLS or AVRIL LAVIGNE in the studio or on the road.
>Most rock bands with 2,5 years off career life also have very
>simple physical demands before they fade away due to a variety
>of factors having nothing to do with how fast and furious they
>play or dont play.
>
>That type of playing is quite tolerant of all sorts of poor
>habits and bad technique overall because the music is not very
>fast and the dynamics are moderate.
>
>Now if you want to play styles that are physically demanding
>like bluegrass, some rock, jazz, classical , you will be left
>in the dust or get injured, or plateau forever (unless you
>retrain yourself) if you use the form and technique of those
>players whose style is not very demanding.
>
>
>
>Therefore I prepare all my students to be absolute virtuosos
>in case they care to become one in the future or even right
>right now.If they stay with slow and simple music they will
>still be able to play much better and more musically (due to
>not having to fight with bad form and tension) than their
>counterparts with bad habits.
>
>
>
>Now off course, most of you are not my students and I could
>just say go ahead do whatever "feels good" in the beginning
>but
> what "feells good "to the inexperienced player will prove
>to be a nightmare riddled with physical pain and injury when
>you face demanding music.

SomeEvilDude
04-18-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm all for unanchoring - I just don't see why anchoring is getting the stigma it has, it is obviously helping some people who can then decide if they want to continue playing that way or play floating hand.

I'm only defending that it's preference - and for anyone who wants to know I have never had any tensions when I'm playing anchored but this was AFTER reading this and hearing that your hand should rest and not be pressed down.

Because the only way to fully utililze the instrument and your potential on it, is to play it in the most effective way possible. Which in this case, is unanchored. If someone is playing anchored, sure they may be able to play fast, they may be great players, but they'd be even better and even faster if they played unanchored.
And again, as stated before, if you anchor then there will be tension. You might not feel it, but if you anchor, there is tension.

^ Well some people might not be lazy but just haven't heard that non-anchoring is better.
Thats why people like you need to educate them.

Stick it to the man yo. :golfclap:

Haha, cheers, but Freepower, Zamboni, Erc and Resiliance have done a lot more in this thread to promote unanchored playing. Kudos to them, those guys know what they're talking about.
A collective thanks from the thread readers to you guys. :cheers:

Maybe this will put things to rest (but I doubt it :) ).
I went over to the Guitar Priciples forums and copied some quotes from
Ney Mello WRT anchoring. Ney is a world class guitarist and teacher who
studied under Al Dimeola and is coming out with his own 2 DVD set just
on picking technique.

If you've been following this thread and are confused about who is "right",
when in doubt I ALWAYS consider the source of the advice. You can
choose the advice of the "experts" here (who's main qualification seems to
be they have a keyboard, computer and can type), or someone with proven
experience and a track record.


Among those things you must do is to keep your hand free to move without any anchoring. You need to MUTE with your wrist area when playing overdriven guitar..or when using the mutola technique, but that is not anchoring for stability.

<snip>

There you go. So to everyone reading this who still anchors, even the proffessionals advocate unachored playing and point out that it limits your playing ability .