So that's why he never played it live...


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Derigiberble
04-23-2006, 01:11 PM
So i'm sitting (maybe standing by this point) watching Gary Moore a couple of weeks ago and i'm waiting as he finishes his first of two encores. So finally he finishes and theres uproar until a chant emerges calling for Parissiene Walkway. So i'm thinking, he must surely play it, but instead he plays some old Willie Dixon tune. So anyway, i felt rather downed by that, thinking he was even more arrogant than i had earlier presumed, but not overly bothered as i can't claim to be that big a fan anyway (although i find his playing impressive).

So anyway i get home and im wondering why he never played it, only to find out he hasn't played it live in years. Well it turns out that hes no longer allowed to. In fact, he stole the song note for note. Parisienne Walkways is a direct note-for-note rip off of a tune called Blue Bossa by K. Dorham, and Gary had to make an out of court settlement over the song.

Is Gary Moore therefore as bad as Page?

oblique
04-23-2006, 01:18 PM
For a second, I thought this wasn't going to be about Page.

I was wrong. Seriously though, there's a huge amount of borrowing and stealing all throughout blues history. Freddie King stole "Hideaway" from some other bluesman and that sort of thing happened all the time. It only became a real problem when the people who stole it were in rock bands and started making real money off of the songs. Obviously stealing songs is bad, and you can think what you want about the person's morals but you shouldn't let it change your view of the rest of their work.

Ian_Milton
04-23-2006, 01:20 PM
hmm, I saw him a couple of weeks ago, and I also wondered why he didnt play it, what a cheeky b astard

Derigiberble
04-23-2006, 01:20 PM
I'd have to say that this one is a little different on the basis that its a note-for-note copy, Hideaway was a blues standard.

Derigiberble
04-23-2006, 01:21 PM
He stole lots of other peoples songs and claimed he wrote them.

TimiHendrix33
04-23-2006, 01:22 PM
Is Gary Moore therefore as bad as Page?


Yes,Page is a much better guitarist.

Derigiberble
04-23-2006, 01:23 PM
Page doesn't have a touch on Moore as a player.

But thats not the point of this thread. :)

oblique
04-23-2006, 01:24 PM
can someone tell me wut happened to Page???

please excuse my stupidity....


In the early years of Zeppelin's career they did uncredited covers or took lyrics from a lot of blues songs, as well as taking the riff from Dazed and Confused and an arrangment or two.

Derigiberble
04-23-2006, 01:52 PM
*Sigh*

I HONESTLY never had any intentions of this thread becoming about Page....

I remember some guy posting this in a thread a while ago to back me up over Page so i figured this should cover it.


"well-you were not around in 1969 when led zep I & II came out.I was.I had already been playing for 4 yrs and learning to play cream.Doors,beatles and Hendrix stuff."

Maybe Derig wasn't around then, but I was, and when you say that "So I would like to add that at the time he was considered the best or second only to Hendrix.Most who followed name Page as their biggest influence and why the Les Paul was THE guitar of the 70's." then I'm afraid your memory is letting you down, the 2 big names in guitar at that time were Hendrix and Clapton. The popularity of the Les Paul was nothing to do with Page and everything to do with Clapton's use of one on the "Bluesbreakers" album known as the "Beano"album. As for naming Page as a major influence, I've hardly heard or read about anyone who says that - but then, any player who has Page as a major influence is probably crap anyway and so I would naturally avoid reading interviews with such people, so you're probably correct about that.

"If you want to accuse him of stealing licks and songs,then we have to accuse Chuck Berry of ripping off boogie woogie piano licks and the stones ripping off Chuck Berry."
You may well also be correct when you say that, but since this thread is specifically about Page and Zep, it's not relevant to the topic at hand. Just because other people have been guilty of plagiarism doesn't make it ok.

"he completely reworked the arrangements so they did not resemble the originals"
...er...... not in every case he didn't, as you would know if you bothered to do just a little research, the evidence is not hard to find, he is a proven rip-off merchant. Even the basic Zep sound wasn't original, it was roughly in the same vein as Cream and Hendrix, both of who were doing it first, and doing it better.

Way back in the early 70s, unlike (probably!!!) anyone else on this thread, I actually met Page, and sat right next to him as he played informally in a social situation. His playing was crap on that occasion too. (I say "too" because his playing was crap on every occasion on which I've ever heard him) He was also one of the most unpleasant and arrogant people it's ever been my misfortune to meet. I've been fortunate enough to have met and jammed with lots of people who are well known, as well as lots who are not particularly well known at all, and if I named the best players I've jammed with, you would probably have heard of none of them. Fame has nothing to do with talent and skill.

And finally - to the guy who asked why people come on the thread to bash Zep - have you looked at the name of the thread? it's an invitation to Zep bashers to come on here and explain why they bash Zep, so obviously if you invite Zep-bashers to explain themselves, they are going to bash Zep, it's what they do, right? Even Zep lovers will admit they ripped off other musicians, but seem to fail to see what is actually wrong with that - perhaps if a song YOU wrote appeared on a Zep album with "Written by Page" printed on the sleeve, you would have a different opinion. A thief is a thief and should be exposed as such.

Burpin'Worm
04-23-2006, 02:32 PM
Interesting; I hadn't heard that about Moore.

As far as whether he's as bad as Page, the guy you quoted pretty much summed it up: "A thief is a thief and should be exposed as such." I suppose if Page has stolen more you could say he's worse.

SuburbanCowboy
04-24-2006, 01:12 PM
I'd have to say that this one is a little different on the basis that its a note-for-note copy, Hideaway was a blues standard.


It may be a standard, but of course someone wrote it somewhere down the line. Songs just dont appear out of thin air.

Evil_Empire24-7
04-24-2006, 01:48 PM
well parisienne walkways doesn't have to do anything with blue bossa.

Ferg
04-24-2006, 05:33 PM
idk about note-for-note copies, i think those are cheap and you only need to know how to read tabs to rip off a song. however throughout music history, every great musician has stolen from his predecesors at one point, even back to Motzart and Bethoven. All the players steal from one another, just add a little of their own touch to the lick or song and attack it from a different angle. i'm not saying what gary moore or page did was right, all i'm saying is that all of us musicians have done it at one point or another, whether it was note-for-note or whether we borrowed a few licks from a bunch of different guys and smashed them together to form our own style.

Tenacious Me
04-24-2006, 06:06 PM
I could see Derigiberble being Pape in disgiuse just so he could watch people defend him. On topic a lot of people talk about that they dont learn a solo they improv their own, or add on to the original its all natural to take a riff you love and transform it into your own.

TheHeartbreaker
04-24-2006, 07:11 PM
idk about note-for-note copies, i think those are cheap and you only need to know how to read tabs to rip off a song. however throughout music history, every great musician has stolen from his predecesors at one point, even back to Motzart and Bethoven. All the players steal from one another, just add a little of their own touch to the lick or song and attack it from a different angle. i'm not saying what gary moore or page did was right, all i'm saying is that all of us musicians have done it at one point or another, whether it was note-for-note or whether we borrowed a few licks from a bunch of different guys and smashed them together to form our own style.

:cheers:

The only thing that was really wrong with the "stealing" was the fact that no credit was given to the guys who originally came up with the material. Yes, it was definetly wrong, but everything was handled and the credit was given to who it should've been.

It's not like Page even did a bad job with his "stealing" - I'd rather hear a Zep song that stole from Willie Dixon than Vanilla Ice singing over the riff for "Under Pressure".

I know I might seem biased being a big Zep fan, but I'd say the same thing for most other people. The only thing about Gary Moore is he stole everything note for note.

ufossuck
04-24-2006, 07:41 PM
No one is as bad as Page. That's one song stolen by Gary Moore as compared to half of Led Zeppelin's songs.

TNfootballfan62
04-24-2006, 08:48 PM
Stealing a song note for note is just screwed up, IMO. What page did was definitely wrong, but he never truly stole anything NOTE FOR NOTE. Gary Moore should be ashamed. :(

Evil_Empire24-7
04-25-2006, 02:11 PM
the song is in a diffirent key from blue bossa and the chords aren't similar in anyway but the licks are similar so it's not stealing !!!!!!

TheHeartbreaker
04-25-2006, 02:15 PM
No one is as bad as Page. That's one song stolen by Gary Moore as compared to half of Led Zeppelin's songs.

Half?

Are you sure about that? That might be a little bit exaggerated... Even so, everything was settled and the credit was given where it was deserved.

I think, therefore, people shouldn't make as big of a deal out of it as they do.

Steve Cropper
04-25-2006, 02:36 PM
Still some of the ripoffs were so blatant they need to be laughed at. Like the Lemon Song and Killing Floor.

oblique
04-25-2006, 03:11 PM
No one is as bad as Page. That's one song stolen by Gary Moore as compared to half of Led Zeppelin's songs.

Zep did uncredited covers of or took lyrics from 12-16 songs tops, and they recorded around 9 studio albums, one of which was a double album. So the amount of stolen stuff can't have been more than a fifth of what they did, and almost all of that was in the first part of their career when they were basically a blues cover band anyways.

Willie Brown
04-25-2006, 03:26 PM
I'd have to say that this one is a little different on the basis that its a note-for-note copy, Hideaway was a blues standard.
Hideaway was stolen from a Hound Dog Taylor instrumental that Freddie King saw him do live.

Derigiberble
04-25-2006, 03:49 PM
People shouldnt make a big deal of stealing? OK when you write a song and someone claims its theres and you don't mind you can say that.

And Parissiene Walkways is a blantant rip off, hence the COURT CASE.

hardrock1315
04-25-2006, 04:12 PM
Blue Bossa is a great song, I just learned how to play it like a month or two ago.

Prophet of Page
04-28-2006, 03:59 PM
"Good composeres borrow, great composers steal" - Igor Stravinsky, a man who certainly knew alot about being a great composer, for both the original and stolen parts.

Atlantic screwed the artists that Zeppelin borrowed lyrics from btw, not Page, Page was just too high to care enough and stop them. Stiil, letting it happen wasn't exactly noble, but certainly not as bad.

ridcullylives
04-29-2006, 08:16 PM
Blue Bossa? I sang that song in jazz band a couple months ago. Good song. I'd be interested to hear the Gary Moore "version."

ZoSo.Led.Zep.
05-02-2006, 02:50 AM
Which song was the riff from 'The Lemon Song' taken from?

Cheers,
CD

ridcullylives
05-02-2006, 03:36 AM
Isn't that song fairly based off of Killing Floor by Howlin' Wolf? Although I've heard the original and the riff, although derivative, is different. The lyrics are basically stolen, though.

ZoSo.Led.Zep.
05-02-2006, 03:44 AM
Oh yeahh haha.

Cheers mate,
CD

TNfootballfan62
05-02-2006, 08:55 AM
Yea, its Killing Floor, and while the riff isnt exactly the same, its really close.

Evil_Empire24-7
05-02-2006, 07:32 PM
what ever happened to The_Strat_Man ?

TNfootballfan62
05-02-2006, 07:37 PM
^^^Eh, who knows. I guess he got busy. That happens to people sometimes, lol.