***The Technique Thread*** (massive)


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Stratwizard
04-30-2006, 03:06 PM
I got okay from andrewbiles to do this, so this is how it goes:

If you got any questions related to shred techniques (i.e alternate picking, sweep picking, legato, tapping etc.) POST THEM HERE!

This is basically meant to get rid of those "how to start shred" and all the technique question threads popping up.

This thread is also good for shred noobs to gather information about shred techniques, and how to start with correct practice routines and so on.

:cheers:

buckethead>you
04-30-2006, 03:14 PM
yeah ive been playin about 18 months. started learnin shred about 6 months ago. i can only manage like 10 nps. whenever i go faster than that, its super sloppy. how can i get away from that. flame all you want.

SnowballofDoom
04-30-2006, 03:15 PM
Great idea! :golfclap:

Stratwizard
04-30-2006, 03:18 PM
yeah ive been playin about 18 months. started learnin shred about 6 months ago. i can only manage like 10 nps. whenever i go faster than that, its super sloppy. how can i get away from that. flame all you want.

It's most likely the lack of practice. You've practised shred only 6 months, don't expect to go fast after so short period of time. It's all about building muscle memory. I suggest to set metronome so slow that you can play every note cleanly. Then start building the speed.

Gman400
04-30-2006, 03:19 PM
Nice thread idea.

Can someone give a good definition of legato? I guess I have the basic idea, I mean I know it means smoothe and you do it using mostly hammerons and slides and stuff, but I need examples and excercises!

Also, I could definately use some tips on practicing shredding. Right now I'm just trying to build as much strength in my fingers and arm as I can with chromatic excercises and permutations all the way up the neck. BTW I've been playing for a little over 2 years and I'm probly the best in my town but I'm still slow for what I should probably be.

buckethead>you
04-30-2006, 03:19 PM
thanks, ill do that. btw dude you freakin wail! how long u been playin?

Stratwizard
04-30-2006, 03:28 PM
Nice thread idea.

Can someone give a good definition of legato? I guess I have the basic idea, I mean I know it means smoothe and you do it using mostly hammerons and slides and stuff, but I need examples and excercises!

Also, I could definately use some tips on practicing shredding. Right now I'm just trying to build as much strength in my fingers and arm as I can with chromatic excercises and permutations all the way up the neck. BTW I've been playing for a little over 2 years and I'm probly the best in my town but I'm still slow for what I should probably be.

If you want a good example of legato, listen the solo for Tender Surrender by Steve Vai. Try learning some licks from there.

You should definitely learn scales and arpeggios. Not just chromatics.

thanks, ill do that. btw dude you freakin wail! how long u been playin?

Thanks. I've been playing about 3 years now.

Acϵ♠
04-30-2006, 05:11 PM
How does one "economy pick".

BlackViper
04-30-2006, 05:25 PM
Right now I can do chromatics at about 5nps what should I do to get faster. Ive been playing for about a year and a half. And what is the first thing I should learn if I want to shred.(Besides alternate picking.)

mortiis999
04-30-2006, 05:35 PM
I can play a chromatic legato run, ascending, in 64ths, dunno what that is in notes per seconds

Godly Moose
04-30-2006, 05:42 PM
I can play a chromatic legato run, ascending, in 64ths, dunno what that is in notes per seconds


How many bpm's is it?

mortiis999
04-30-2006, 05:47 PM
How many bpm's is it?

rest of band is at 220 - 245, changes half way through

Evil_Empire24-7
04-30-2006, 05:48 PM
How does one "economy pick".Sweeping means using a single picking stroke up or down across two or more strings. It means that when playing, one must make sure that the last note on a string, the pick is poised in the direction of the next string containing the next notes.

Sweeping is a combination of alternate and sweeping techniques. The reason is simple. It is impossible to sweep on one string So, on a single string, one still need to alternate pick.

PooKoo
04-30-2006, 05:55 PM
^sorry, but that really confused me.

Gman400
04-30-2006, 06:01 PM
If you want a good example of legato, listen the solo for Tender Surrender by Steve Vai. Try learning some licks from there.

You should definitely learn scales and arpeggios. Not just chromatics.



Thanks I've heard that song before but I'll look into it in detail. Oh and I know some arpeggios and all my modes and stuff so I'm not only practicing chromatics, that's just been what's taking up a lot of my time lately.

In the second paragraph he meant to say "Economy picking." Basically if you do a downstroke on a string, then you go to the string above that one you again use an downstroke, which makes it kinda sweeping. If you end on an upstroke and you go to the string below, you use another upstroke. If you stay on the same string you just alternate.

shredfan
04-30-2006, 06:02 PM
rest of band is at 220 - 245, changes half way through

You reckon you can play 64th notes at that tempo? :rolleyes:

mortiis999
04-30-2006, 06:09 PM
yes

edit actually no, i checked, its 16ths at 245 bpm

JkHalen
04-30-2006, 06:10 PM
Well, I'd like to know how can I improve at guitar playing. I consider myself a "kinda regular" here at the shred forums but I'm not THAT great of guitar player myself since I've been playing for just recently, 2 years. I've started to get into shredding just about 3 months ago so I consider myself "noob at shreding". Can you give me advice and some songs I should get into?

Acϵ♠
04-30-2006, 06:48 PM
Call me crazy but im pretty sure we already had a thread for this.


Sweeping means using a single picking stroke up or down across two or more strings. It means that when playing, one must make sure that the last note on a string, the pick is poised in the direction of the next string containing the next notes.

Sweeping is a combination of alternate and sweeping techniques. The reason is simple. It is impossible to sweep on one string So, on a single string, one still need to alternate pick.

I know what sweep picking is. I asked what economy picking is.

Gman400
04-30-2006, 07:03 PM
Once again, he meant to say "Economy picking" in the 2nd paragraph.

Csquared1001
04-30-2006, 07:07 PM
umm i was wondering do you guys turn the pick a little bit of go exactly parrallel to the strings

rjk123
04-30-2006, 07:26 PM
I have a kind of weird problem, I dont know if its technique, but Ill put it here anyway: I've just started trying to "shred", (more like playing solos) but it seems like there are just some things I cannot play at all. For example, I cannot for the life of me play Eruption. I've been working on it for quite a while, and have gotten basically nowhere. Yet, there are other songs, like Eugene's Trickbag or Mr. Crowley, that are generally considered more difficult to play, but I am able to pick up really quickly. Anyone got any ideas?

SnowballofDoom
04-30-2006, 07:47 PM
umm i was wondering do you guys turn the pick a little bit of go exactly parrallel to the strings

I angle it; most guitarists recommend that.

Andrewbiles
04-30-2006, 08:12 PM
yes

edit actually no, i checked, its 16ths at 245 bpm

Are you sure?

The attached is a powertab of 16ths @ 245 bpm...

PooKoo
04-30-2006, 08:32 PM
how many nps is that?

good thread, btw.

Godly Moose
04-30-2006, 08:37 PM
how many nps is that?

good thread, btw.


245 x 4 = 980

980 / 60 = 16.33(Repeating)


So 16.3 nps.

TheUltimateSin
04-30-2006, 08:59 PM
Excellent thread idea Strat.

I angle it; most guitarists recommend that.

I angle it as well. I personally find it a bit difficult to play most songs when the pick is directly parallel with the strings. But meh....that's just me. And we all know I aint anything special on guitar ;)

Gman400
04-30-2006, 09:01 PM
When you say parallel...do you mean that when the pick hits the string the entire surface of the tip makes contact at the same time, or do you mean you hold the picks tip not straight down on the string, but instead facing slightly towards the neck of the guitar?

TheUltimateSin
04-30-2006, 09:07 PM
^I think he meant the first one. I'm not sure though. I'm tired and having a bit of trouble interpretting what you are saying.

Gman400
04-30-2006, 09:24 PM
Sorry, I know it's confusing, lol.

Basically I think I'm asking do you mean: Holding the picks tip perpendiclar to the strengths length (as in pointing straight down onto the guitars body)

or do you mean holding the side of the pick facing parallel with the string.

SnowballofDoom
04-30-2006, 09:32 PM
We mean keeping the pointy end facing toward the pickups, but slightly turning the entire pick (angling) it so the side of it 'slices' the string.

Like in this pic:

http://vai.com/SightsSounds/2003_album/steveacou_LRG.jpg

One side of his pick is closer to the floor than the other.

priest.fan.
04-30-2006, 09:42 PM
crazy vai and his ridiculously bony hands :o

TheUltimateSin
04-30-2006, 09:45 PM
crazy vai and his ridiculously bony hands :o

Maybe Vai's boney hands are just a side-effect of being awesome. You know, like GibsonSG's weird breathing :p:

splice
04-30-2006, 09:48 PM
crazy vai and his ridiculously bony hands :o
:haha

TheUltimateSin
04-30-2006, 09:50 PM
splice......that sure as hell better not be chuck norris in your avatar.....so help me god, if that's chuck norris....

Godly Moose
04-30-2006, 09:51 PM
splice......that sure as hell better not be chuck norris in your avatar.....so help me god, if that's chuck norris....


It's Chuck Norris. :haha

Gman400
04-30-2006, 10:33 PM
Okay thanks for the clarification. Nice pic too lol.

Speaking of hands, I remember a while back I posted an audio clip of my friend shredding and then explained how I only had 4 fingers on my left hand and posted a pic and edited out the middle finger lol. This was on a different forum btw but everyone was like OMG UR SO AWSUM. :p:

Stratwizard
05-01-2006, 03:27 AM
umm i was wondering do you guys turn the pick a little bit of go exactly parrallel to the strings

I angle it. I have no idea, how one can pick without angling it.

Resiliance
05-01-2006, 04:06 AM
I do both parallel and angled... Different sounds.

Stratwizard
05-01-2006, 04:33 AM
^Can you pick fast when you have the pick parallel to the strings?

Resiliance
05-01-2006, 04:36 AM
Sure.

Acϵ♠
05-01-2006, 06:12 AM
I find it easier when my pick is angled at about 2 o'clock, with the pointed end closer to the neck.

like this

V
-----------

wil
05-01-2006, 06:15 AM
Ok, i sometimes encounter a problem whereby if im picking really fast--or at least trying to!--i find it hard to keep my wrist loose enough AND hold the pick firmly enough at the same time. This might not make a great deal of sense, but basically,im trying so hard to remain loose---as im constantly reading that tension=bad---that i cant always maintain the pressure between my index finger and thumb to grip the pick.
Its fine if i sort of want to 'float' the pick and graze the strings, but if i want to dig inwith a sharp attack or get a pinch i sometimes end up dropping the thing!

Does anyone have any advice because im pretty sure im doing SOMETHING wrong which is hindering me from getting to where i want to be. :mad:

Acϵ♠
05-01-2006, 06:20 AM
I sometimes have that problem too. I used to have it more, then i switched pick thickness. I think it helps a lot.

wil
05-01-2006, 06:26 AM
Well, i use heavy fender picks--dont ask what size...---which are awful for strumming--not a lot of flexibility in them--but i find them good for lead stuff, i can pick really well and cleanly at a moderate tempo but speeding up is another issue...

Im getting worried because, im currently doing a varied practise regime and im noticing my legato, sweeping and tapping are all coming on in leaps and bounds so my regime seems pretty benefitial, but the picking isnt really seeming to go anywhere :mad: --i know its probably one of the hardest techniques which requires one of the most amounts of practise, but like i said, im worried all im doing by CONTINUIng to do what i do is only hindering me...

Evil_Empire24-7
05-01-2006, 06:40 AM
^i play in a classical position so that my hand can be free to play.

Erc
05-01-2006, 07:15 AM
Ok, i sometimes encounter a problem whereby if im picking really fast--or at least trying to!--i find it hard to keep my wrist loose enough AND hold the pick firmly enough at the same time. This might not make a great deal of sense, but basically,im trying so hard to remain loose---as im constantly reading that tension=bad---that i cant always maintain the pressure between my index finger and thumb to grip the pick.
Its fine if i sort of want to 'float' the pick and graze the strings, but if i want to dig inwith a sharp attack or get a pinch i sometimes end up dropping the thing!

Does anyone have any advice because im pretty sure im doing SOMETHING wrong which is hindering me from getting to where i want to be. :mad:


Ever thought about changing the way you hold the pick? Also, how do you pick? Translatory? Rotary or Oscillatory? (not sure on those spellings)

Matt_Malmsteen
05-01-2006, 07:22 AM
Well, i use heavy fender picks--dont ask what size...---which are awful for strumming--not a lot of flexibility in them--but i find them good for lead stuff, i can pick really well and cleanly at a moderate tempo but speeding up is another issue...

Im getting worried because, im currently doing a varied practise regime and im noticing my legato, sweeping and tapping are all coming on in leaps and bounds so my regime seems pretty benefitial, but the picking isnt really seeming to go anywhere :mad: --i know its probably one of the hardest techniques which requires one of the most amounts of practise, but like i said, im worried all im doing by CONTINUIng to do what i do is only hindering me...

What I do is to...kinda focus more on keeping your wrist relaxed whilst playing, so you're basically multi-tasking.

Also when you warm up just try erm...shaking your wrist whilst holding your pick and then try doing your regular warm up whilst focusing on keep your wrist relaxed and loose, if you start to feel tension in your wrist just give it a rest and then carry on....

I'm **** at explaining this, sorry....

wil
05-01-2006, 07:43 AM
Ever thought about changing the way you hold the pick? Also, how do you pick? Translatory? Rotary or Oscillatory? (not sure on those spellings)


Sorry, im not too hot on the technical terms for this--can anyone explain? Im sure Freepower had some pictures didnt he?

As far as holding the pick goes--what are the options? How tight should i grip it? Do i lightly grip it between my index and thumb or really apply the pressure with my index finger? I cant really explain but at the moment im doing the latter which means my index finger is sort of bending 'inwards' at the top knuckle. Is this causing bad tension? I mean there IS tension in the fingers of my picking hand but my wrist is pretty tension free...

One thing ive often thought about is HOW MUCH of the pick is potrudring(sp???) from my thumb and index---at the moment its quite a lot, maybe 5-6 mm---im sure i need to reduce this and only have the smallest point striking the strings but i find this limits my options and mobility, its great for fast picking on one string but for some reason i find it harder to change strings that way... :confused: and i also find it hard to nail pinch harmonics with only 1 or 2 mm of the pick...

Andrewbiles
05-01-2006, 08:05 AM
245 x 4 = 980

980 / 60 = 16.33(Repeating)


So 16.3 nps.

Is that it? It sounded a lot faster.

That Vai acoustic guitar looked beautiful.

Stratwizard
05-01-2006, 08:11 AM
Sorry, im not too hot on the technical terms for this--can anyone explain? Im sure Freepower had some pictures didnt he?


First of all, the wrist motions...

Translation

Lay your hand and wrist flat on the desk surface. Restrain your wrist loosely with your other hand. The necessary wrist motion for scribbling will be translation, which is side to side wrist motion. You will draw long arcs on the paper, part of a circle whose center is your wrist.

Rotation

Raise your wrist two to four inches off the surface, making a circle around your wrist with your other hand so it can move freely but not relocate. Rotate your wrist as you would if turning a doorknob. Your fingertips and the tip of the pen move through an arc of a circle whose radius is the distance from your wrist to the surface. Notice that the marks the pen makes get shorter and straighter, because theoretically a circle (the pen) and a plane (the paper) only intersect in a point, which gets extended to closer to an inch because of the slop in your wrist, hand and paper.

Oscillation

Lay your wrist down again, but with the bone nearest the little finger resting on the surface, and the bone nearest the thumb up in the air. Your wrist should be rotated 90 degrees from where it was before, rolled away from your body. Restrain it. You'll have to hold the pen differently, but now if you rotate you will just make dots. The solution is oscillation, the same kind of motion used in knocking on a door or playing piano from the wrist. It is what most people use when writing, also, although usually with more like a 45 degree wrist offset. Now the pen makes long arcs again.

Oscillation is the best of these motions. You can speed it up almost without any limit without any tension. You can also cover all the strings without relocating the wrist. It's also as natural as rotation when combined with moving arm, so you get kind-of strumming feel.

Stratwizard
05-01-2006, 08:29 AM
As far as holding the pick goes--what are the options? How tight should i grip it? Do i lightly grip it between my index and thumb or really apply the pressure with my index finger? I cant really explain but at the moment im doing the latter which means my index finger is sort of bending 'inwards' at the top knuckle. Is this causing bad tension? I mean there IS tension in the fingers of my picking hand but my wrist is pretty tension free...


Well, it's a bad way to hold the pick between index finger's side and thumb. Holding the pick that way involves pressing the thumb against the side of the index finger, which is an unnatural position for the index finger, and that causes tension.

I've tried to learn a new way of picking where the pick is held between the tip of the thumb and pad of the index finger. For me at least, this leads into zero tension. Allthough, it takes helluva lot relearning and I'm not sure if I want to sacrifice my technique...

wil
05-01-2006, 08:32 AM
OK, i think i understand, although some of those images are a bit hard for me to grasp, especially as i write left handed but pick right handed--doh!!--but i sort of get it. Can you explain the oscillation a bit more?? I understand but im a bit confused as to how this translates on to the guitar...

Stratwizard
05-01-2006, 08:37 AM
What is not clear about the oscillation?

Gman400
05-01-2006, 03:21 PM
I'm kinda confused about it too. I pretty much get what you're supposed to do as far as holding your hand and stuff but it doesn't make that much sense on guitar, I think I'm oscillation though. It doesn't matter to me though, I'll just ask my teacher.

Stratwizard
05-01-2006, 03:28 PM
George Benson is a good example of oscillation picker. I'll find you some videos later, I gotta go for today..

seljer
05-01-2006, 04:19 PM
We mean keeping the pointy end facing toward the pickups, but slightly turning the entire pick (angling) it so the side of it 'slices' the string.

Like in this pic:

[img]http://vai.com/SightsSounds/2003_album/steveacou_LRG.jpg

One side of his pick is closer to the floor than the other.

damn, that chord is a tricky one

other than that, I just half to ask: Is fast picking really just a thing of practice? I've been playing guitar for less than 3 years (1 year only on a classical without a pic), I can the I can do 16th notes of simple stuff cleanly at around 128bpm which works out to 8 - 9 nps. If you keep going gradually you eventually get there?
some general frustrations I guess

Scorzerci
05-01-2006, 04:23 PM
Seljer- you got de-column-cleanerised?

SnowballofDoom
05-01-2006, 04:23 PM
other than that, I just half to ask: Is fast picking really just a thing of practice? I've been playing guitar for less than 3 years (1 year only on a classical without a pic), I can the I can do 16th notes of simple stuff cleanly at around 128bpm which works out to 8 - 9 nps. If you keep going gradually you eventually get there?
some general frustrations I guess

Yep. Well, it's a thing of accurate practice, the speed comes later.

Just stay loose, accurate, controlled, practice regularly, and the speed will come together soon enough.

splice
05-01-2006, 04:34 PM
splice......that sure as hell better not be chuck norris in your avatar.....so help me god, if that's chuck norris....



indeed it is

:down: chuck norris

seljer
05-01-2006, 04:58 PM
Seljer- you got de-column-cleanerised?
I volentarily stepped down. I had some kind of 3 weeks crisis were I didn't play guitar (or visit this site), and now I'm filled with bitterness and resent towards all guitarists (myself included :p:, I thinking about getting a bass just so I could tell people I play bass instead of guitar) and felt like I'd end up doing something stupid with the powers I had...

Erc
05-01-2006, 05:11 PM
other than that, I just half to ask: Is fast picking really just a thing of practice? I've been playing guitar for less than 3 years (1 year only on a classical without a pic), I can the I can do 16th notes of simple stuff cleanly at around 128bpm which works out to 8 - 9 nps. If you keep going gradually you eventually get there?
some general frustrations I guess


Well you do have to look at how you are picking. Sure you can get very fast with holding your pick just about anyway but some ways are easier and better then others.

I'm kinda confused about it too. I pretty much get what you're supposed to do as far as holding your hand and stuff but it doesn't make that much sense on guitar, I think I'm oscillation though. It doesn't matter to me though, I'll just ask my teacher.

It is exactly like knocking a door. I have fingers faced almost directly down to the ground.

As far as holding the pick goes--what are the options? How tight should i grip it? Do i lightly grip it between my index and thumb or really apply the pressure with my index finger? I cant really explain but at the moment im doing the latter which means my index finger is sort of bending 'inwards' at the top knuckle. Is this causing bad tension? I mean there IS tension in the fingers of my picking hand but my wrist is pretty tension free...


Tension in your fingers isn't nearly as bad as tension in the wrist/arm/shoulder. Its not as hampering but it still should be gotten rid of. One of the best ways I have found to hold the pick (as stratwizard mentioned before) is to hold it with your thumb locked back and with the pad (tip) of your finger. Its the best way to hold it I've come across and I've gone through a tone of ways to hold the damned thing.

Also I find holding the pick closest to the bottom gives the most control (too close can keep you from doing good sweeping though with your thumb knocking strings).

George Benson is a good example of oscillation picker. I'll find you some videos later, I gotta go for today..


He is, but just don't imitate him totally, as he anchors. So don't anchor. ^_^

Another player that oscillation picks is Shawn Lane http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5608723890520356526&q=shawn+lane&pl=true (there is a vid of him doing a fast run)

Gman400
05-01-2006, 07:44 PM
Thanks Erc, that was a helpful post. Just about to wrap up a 3-hour practice, which is very unusual for me :/

TheUltimateSin
05-01-2006, 09:50 PM
indeed it is

:down: chuck norris

*dramatic look-up-at-the-sky-with-arms-stretched-up pose* Nnnoooooooooooooooo!


...anyway....*cough*

So I am starting to relearn playing the basics of scales, such as the G-major scale. It's short, simple, and easy to build up speed while playing accurately on(at least to me it is). I don't suppose there are anything else I can really learn technique-wise at this point, is there?


EDIT: You know....I just realized how ignorant of a question that is that I just asked. Oh well....I suppose when one knows nothing, one can only learn.....

Erc
05-01-2006, 10:28 PM
^ Hahaha, yea you are right that was an ignorant question.

*sigh* when I think of all the things that I want to learn to do and at varying speeds...ugh...overwhelming.

TheUltimateSin
05-01-2006, 11:26 PM
....yes..it was very dull of me to ask it that way. I also just realized that after trying to rephrase my question about 23 different ways(not even a joke. that is the actual number), there is no way I can ask it in a manner that is answerable nor simple to interpret. Maybe someone out there manages to somehow get what I tried to say. But I doubt it. There are very few who think like me.....and that is probably for the best.

gimme_fuel_89
05-02-2006, 02:59 AM
He is, but just don't imitate him totally, as he anchors. So don't anchor. ^_^

What's wrong with anchoring? It offers extra balance and Petrucci does it.

Boghead
05-02-2006, 05:07 AM
anchoring=tension, unless you can get rid of the the tension
You can train yourself without anchoring, heck thats what i did
i had to go back to 8ths at 60 bpm to relearn but its all worth it :)

Freepower
05-02-2006, 05:14 AM
What's wrong with anchoring? It offers extra balance and Petrucci does it.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339913&page=1&pp=20

Watch petrucci play a fast run. LOOK how tense he is - you can actually see him almost literally breath a sigh of relief at the end of each run.

Poor guy.

Erc
05-02-2006, 07:29 AM
^ That thread was filled with so much persistant ignorance that it hurt my head. (by our anchoring friends who wanted to justify their technique for some reason 0_o)



Remember, just because a good guitarist like JP anchors doesn't make it right at all. Nor any other bad habit, they just learned to play fast even with the hampering effect of anchoring.

gimme_fuel_89
05-02-2006, 07:40 AM
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339913&page=1&pp=20

Watch petrucci play a fast run. LOOK how tense he is - you can actually see him almost literally breath a sigh of relief at the end of each run.

Poor guy.

Yeah, I've noticed how tense Petrucci gets - but I didn't know it was due to the anchoring. I've also noticed how tense I've been getting lately (trying very hard to build speed), but I was advised by some respectable guitarists to anchor.

Anyway, that thread was really enlightening. Everything you, Zamboni and Resi said was true and beneficial, and I highly respect you guys as guitarists and guitar theorists. It's a shame I didn't learn this earlier, because practice has been painful for a while, and that could've been easily prevented. I'd just like to thank you alot for pointing that out and helping me become a better guitar player :) :cheers:
I'm gonna start working on that as soon as I finish this post.

Stratwizard
05-02-2006, 08:16 AM
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339913&page=1&pp=20

Watch petrucci play a fast run. LOOK how tense he is - you can actually see him almost literally breath a sigh of relief at the end of each run.

Poor guy.

Wow...

With right kind of wrist motion JP could get the full potential out of his technqiue. Same goes to the picking technique. I wonder how fast he would be...

Scorzerci
05-02-2006, 11:35 AM
I rest my pinky right under the pickup (if it were at a 90 angle) so does that count as anchoring it cus I'm just resting it there not trying to hold my hand in place or anything like that?

Resiliance
05-02-2006, 11:43 AM
Resting is anchoring.

Just because your body fools you into thinking you're "resting" it thus not generating tension... False. You are.

Freepower
05-02-2006, 02:28 PM
If its resting, why do you make the effort of putting it there? The normal shape of the human hand, with no muscles tense, does not have a pinky extended, y'know.

Stratwizard
05-02-2006, 03:47 PM
I've been experimenting with two different ways on picking; holding the hand in fist and keeping it open. When I hold it in fist I can pick a lot faster as the there's less mass flying around, allthough keeping it open seems more natural.

I'm wondering how you keep you hand when you pick...

Scorzerci
05-02-2006, 03:50 PM
a loose fist

Matt_Malmsteen
05-02-2006, 04:07 PM
I've been doing what stratwizard just described.
Is either one better than the other or doesn't it really matter?
I wondered because my hand feels comfortable either way...

mr_clapton
05-02-2006, 07:08 PM
can somebody please enlighten me on how to do those delightful mattias harmonics?

gtgram14
05-02-2006, 11:03 PM
About this whole anchoring thing, I find that the natural position of my hand when I play while standing is with my hand lightly resting against the strings just in front of the bridge. My hand moves quite freely and for string skipping stuff, my hand hardly even makes contact with the guitar. Is it worth is to convert to the oscillation picking thing with my elbow kind of sticking out and my wrist hanging down? Thats a bad description but I know the correct hand positions for it, it just doesnt really feel natural. And I can somehow picture my shoulder getting sore after long periods of time.

gtgram14
05-02-2006, 11:32 PM
I've also decided that shawn lane is an extraterrestrial, sent down to earth to make everyone else on the planet's guitar playing look like ****.....I'm watching google videos.....

Godly Moose
05-02-2006, 11:33 PM
^ Yup that's pretty much the point why he was born, to show the flaw in all of our technique.

sirpsycho85
05-02-2006, 11:49 PM
First of all, the wrist motions...
Oscillation

Lay your wrist down again, but with the bone nearest the little finger resting on the surface, and the bone nearest the thumb up in the air. Your wrist should be rotated 90 degrees from where it was before, rolled away from your body. Restrain it. You'll have to hold the pen differently, but now if you rotate you will just make dots. The solution is oscillation, the same kind of motion used in knocking on a door or playing piano from the wrist. It is what most people use when writing, also, although usually with more like a 45 degree wrist offset. Now the pen makes long arcs again.


im sorry, even with the lane video i'm having trouble seeing how this is different than rotation. i see how the motion you explained is different from what you called rotation, but it looks like oscillation is just rotation with your arm starting at a different angle. for guitar, i dont know how to translate that, since you're not going to hold the edge of your arm to the guitar and come down on the strings like with a pen. can you perhaps elaborate, or post a very slow video of it if you have that ability.

and on another note, in lane i think theres actually a shredder i somewhat enjoy listening to.

Erc
05-03-2006, 04:33 AM
^ You trasnlate it like this. It is like knocking a door, thats the easiest way to think of it, the easiest way to make it work is to have your fingers facing the ground almost parrallel with the ground, so that your up movement of the wrist is the downstroke and your down movement is the upstroke.

Freepower
05-03-2006, 07:02 AM
I'm wondering how you keep you hand when you pick...

Loose fist.

I dont have problems so much with wrist and hand as the "top" of my forearm, if you're looking down at the back of your hand like you're typing.

Mostly because i've been trying to get a really chunky pick attack and varied dynamics - basically, its really hard to pick fast and HARD, y'know?

Prophet of Page
05-03-2006, 11:38 AM
Ok let me ask a question. If Shawn Lane does something, does it mean its right? You guys look up to him as though he's the angel of technique or something, when I think his picking sounds mushy and undefined, and that his whammy use is for want of a better term, ****ing crap. God knows I'd prefer picking like Gilbert's or Di Meola's, even if it is slower.

slash_620
05-03-2006, 11:49 AM
Ok let me ask a question. If Shawn Lane does something, does it mean its right? You guys look up to him as though he's the angel of technique or something, when I think his picking sounds mushy and undefined, and that his whammy use is for want of a better term, ****ing crap. God knows I'd prefer picking like Gilbert's or Di Meola's, even if it is slower.

And i can guarentee you that 95% of people on this board think you're wrong.

Prophet of Page
05-03-2006, 11:59 AM
And i can guarentee you that 95% of people on this board think you're wrong.


Yeah but I don't give a shit.

slash_620
05-03-2006, 12:02 PM
Yeah but I don't give a shit.

Oh, i forgot, Lane>you

Prophet of Page
05-03-2006, 12:05 PM
Oh, i forgot, Lane>you

Me>You.

slash_620
05-03-2006, 12:09 PM
Me>You.

Me> :bounce:

Prophet of Page
05-03-2006, 12:10 PM
Me> :bounce:

Glad you took it lightly. Twas a joke.

Stratwizard
05-03-2006, 01:04 PM
Ok let me ask a question. If Shawn Lane does something, does it mean its right? You guys look up to him as though he's the angel of technique or something, when I think his picking sounds mushy and undefined, and that his whammy use is for want of a better term, ****ing crap. God knows I'd prefer picking like Gilbert's or Di Meola's, even if it is slower.

I agree with you completely. IMO Shawn Lane is an annoying wanker. Can't stand his playing or speaking. :puke:

slash_620
05-03-2006, 01:17 PM
Glad you took it lightly. Twas a joke.

:peace: Aye

Tbh, i don't know why i visit here so often, i think most shreders are emotionless robots.

shredfan
05-03-2006, 01:19 PM
I'd also agree with some of the stuff PoP said, even though I quite like Shawn Lane. Even though Lane's picking is really fast and clean, to me it sometimes sounds like I'm listening to it from miles away. It's partly his tone, but also the way he plays.
I generally prefer the sound of a more powerful, aggressive pick attack, like Gilbert's.

Scorzerci
05-03-2006, 01:24 PM
I like Shawn Lane and his picking technique...

PooKoo
05-03-2006, 02:29 PM
ive yet to hear or see anything by shawn that i disagree with really.

Resiliance
05-03-2006, 02:50 PM
And i can guarentee you that 95% of people on this board think you're wrong.

Not me.

And I count for 150%.

:o

paddyo
05-03-2006, 03:34 PM
^:haha Was that Resi making a j..nah forget it...

Matt_Malmsteen
05-03-2006, 03:42 PM
I like Shawn lane's stuff but I prefer other people, I certainly don't look to him as an angel of technique but I would be inclined to agree he has better technique than most.

imo Gilbert and Friedman > world

Freepower
05-03-2006, 03:45 PM
Ok let me ask a question. If Shawn Lane does something, does it mean its rightYou guys look up to him as though he's the angel of technique or something, when I think his picking sounds mushy and undefined, and that his whammy use is for want of a better term, ****ing crap. God knows I'd prefer picking like Gilbert's or Di Meola's, even if it is slower.

I prefer Gilberts picking too, pretty much for the much more varied dynamics and chunkier attack.

Otoh, i must -

A) disagree with the whammy remark, i love his whammy use. Why'd ya think its ****?
B) there are plenty of examples around of him doing really hard, distinct picking - he just didnt most of the time. The paris DVD, some closeups from the instructionals...its mostly his really saturated, floaty tone.

Shawn, imo, is a brilliant example of loose, effective technique. It's some of the best i've seen, and i take from it what i can. His physicality in playing brings out some brilliant ideas regarding technique. He's not flawless, but he's brilliant.

This is some great paul stuff to show that his chops havent gone and that theres not much competition between him and lane...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3011321663930966226&q=scarified&pl=true - the intro mini-solo to this is just brilliant.

Scorzerci
05-03-2006, 03:48 PM
I think my dynamics are decent enough so for me right now it's a higher priority to learn how to pick fast...

Matt_Malmsteen
05-03-2006, 03:49 PM
^^ I love that video, and I agree with you I just can't write answers as well put as that.

I actually try to base alot of my picking on Gilbert's, he said in something I read that picking and legatoo should be looked at like vowels and consanants, which i think is totally right.

Granted the only Gilbert I've actually learnt is the main riff for Scarified and bits of Street Lethal :(

Freepower
05-03-2006, 04:10 PM
^ that is simply put, the best way i've ever heard it described. I hate when you hear about "Picking licks" and "legato licks"... its like a guitar player going "oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" or rolling their tongue...not that thats ALWAYS inappropriate, god forbid!

SnowballofDoom
05-03-2006, 05:17 PM
Ok let me ask a question. If Shawn Lane does something, does it mean its right? You guys look up to him as though he's the angel of technique or something, when I think his picking sounds mushy and undefined, and that his whammy use is for want of a better term, ****ing crap. God knows I'd prefer picking like Gilbert's or Di Meola's, even if it is slower.

:golfclap:

gtgram14
05-03-2006, 10:03 PM
Well from what I've seen of lane, and of gibert, Lane does some stuff that puts the most techincal stuff ive seen of gilbert's to shame. But then I again I havent seen all that much of gilbert.

Godly Moose
05-03-2006, 11:28 PM
Meh, I still love Lane.

Beckerism
05-04-2006, 12:52 AM
Well from what I've seen of lane, and of gibert, Lane does some stuff that puts the most techincal stuff ive seen of gilbert's to shame. But then I again I havent seen all that much of gilbert.

Hit it right on.

gimme_fuel_89
05-04-2006, 05:32 AM
Is it a problem if the side of my hand brushes lightly against the bridge when I play the high e string?

wil
05-04-2006, 06:09 AM
I personally think Gilbert has a better technique than Lane...i know some of you will say that technique is not a matter of opinion etc, but i honestly prefers Gilbert's style---its easy to forget, because of his more recent, pop-influenced work just how good Paul really is and id take his picking over Lane's anyday of the week...Thats not to say i dont like Lane, but i agree with other people who say his attack and his tone arent really their cup of tea.

I downloaded a Zakk Wylde instructional the other day and its terrible--hes a lot younger in it, but he uses the wah ALL THE WAY through and his techique is sloppy as hell...

On a brighter note, i also got the Ibanez 90th Anniversary video--Andy Timmons... :eek: --the ****ty uni network wont let me upload it as its too big, but if i can...ahem...get on another---unsecured---wireless network at home i'll try and upload it for everyone.

pavan
05-04-2006, 08:40 AM
ever noticed the right hand of MAB and Holdsworth

Stratwizard
05-04-2006, 10:43 AM
On a brighter note, i also got the Ibanez 90th Anniversary video--Andy Timmons... :eek: --the ****ty uni network wont let me upload it as its too big, but if i can...ahem...get on another---unsecured---wireless network at home i'll try and upload it for everyone.

I have it on my computer. Andy is awesome.

wil
05-04-2006, 11:13 AM
ive noticed that Vai and Gilbert seem a little subdued, and they dont really look like theyre enjoying themselves at all-- :confused:
did you know Andy says he doesnt know how to sweep pick? Considering as i suck at sweeping also, this was a great comfort to me.

seljer
05-04-2006, 11:14 AM
On a brighter note, i also got the Ibanez 90th Anniversary video--Andy Timmons... :eek: --the ****ty uni network wont let me upload it as its too big, but if i can...ahem...get on another---unsecured---wireless network at home i'll try and upload it for everyone.

I think you can find it (or at least parts of it) if you search for him on YouTube

wil
05-04-2006, 11:17 AM
its cool, i have the whole thing on my computer.

Prophet of Page
05-04-2006, 11:29 AM
I prefer Gilberts picking too, pretty much for the much more varied dynamics and chunkier attack.

Otoh, i must -

A) disagree with the whammy remark, i love his whammy use. Why'd ya think its ****?
B) there are plenty of examples around of him doing really hard, distinct picking - he just didnt most of the time. The paris DVD, some closeups from the instructionals...its mostly his really saturated, floaty tone.


A. Shawn's bar use sounds like mwopmwopmwooopmewpmwop. Bar use that I like sounds like wahwoohwaaaahwooah! Only way I can put it really.
B. And Gilbert is still better at it.

Resiliance
05-04-2006, 11:30 AM
I think Andy's a bit of an egomaniac on the Ibanez video... If you know what I mean.

Still great though, just what I think.

wil
05-04-2006, 11:44 AM
yeah, i did get that feeling too, but then i think his chops kinda make up for it. Didnt see the whole thing---im doing an essay as we speak-worst question ever!---so i'l watch the rest later and see what i think.

Stratwizard
05-04-2006, 01:30 PM
ive noticed that Vai and Gilbert seem a little subdued, and they dont really look like theyre enjoying themselves at all-- :confused:


True. Vai had a terrible tone, and he had to switch the guitar in some point. Besides, Andy got to do solos in every song!

seljer
05-04-2006, 01:39 PM
True. Vai had a terrible tone, and he had to switch the guitar in some point. Besides, Andy got to do solos in every song!

He did the solo with a snapped guitar string (with a floating bridge!), did a pretty good job regarding that problem

Resiliance
05-04-2006, 02:04 PM
Best part of that whole video is the saxophone solo in Powerhead imo.

<3

Stratwizard
05-04-2006, 02:06 PM
Yeah, like I've said before, the sax player is the best there.

Prophet of Page
05-04-2006, 02:12 PM
Sort of deviating from the point of technique thread.

Stratwizard
05-04-2006, 02:17 PM
^Yes, it is, but no one has posted any questions or such...

paddyo
05-04-2006, 02:27 PM
Is God real?

Stratwizard
05-04-2006, 02:38 PM
Depends how you define God.

Anyway, lets try to keep this spam-free, so it's easier to read and the mods won't get pissed off.

paddyo
05-04-2006, 02:51 PM
Yeah no problem...sorry:(...

Matt_Malmsteen
05-04-2006, 04:48 PM
Ok I've just been learning Hanger 18 and listening to loads of Friedman stuff, any recommendations on any fairly easy songs by Friedman I should learn to get a good idea of his playing style and to improve on my own?

paddyo
05-04-2006, 04:56 PM
^Tornado of Souls. Not easy but none of his(or any virtuoso guitarist's) work is.

Resiliance
05-04-2006, 05:14 PM
Poison Was The Cure is a good one also.

wil
05-04-2006, 05:18 PM
its megadeth but with Friedman, id suggest learning Symphony of destruction because it has a lot of his trademark bends etc and legato style, its not too taxing but it sounds pretty cool. :)

rat-man
05-04-2006, 05:33 PM
try 'Rip' from his solo album music for speeding, its an awesome track

mr_clapton
05-04-2006, 06:14 PM
no one answered my question about mattias harmonics....:(

seljer
05-04-2006, 06:28 PM
no one answered my question about mattias harmonics....:(

Well his word on it: http://home.swipnet.se/freakguitar/licks.html

pavan
05-05-2006, 03:50 AM
I think Andy's a bit of an egomaniac on the Ibanez video... If you know what I mean.

Still great though, just what I think.


I love his solo on Powerhead. You can see the saxophone dude enjoying himself that part.

Freepower
05-05-2006, 05:24 AM
ive noticed that Vai and Gilbert seem a little subdued, and they dont really look like theyre enjoying themselves at all-- :confused:

Considering its Vai and Gilbert, thats a little odd...

did you know Andy says he doesnt know how to sweep pick? Considering as i suck at sweeping also, this was a great comfort to me.

Its quite an underrated technique. Most of the time it just ends up being some irritating chord sequence. If you can be arsed to push some boundries i suggest learning it but if not, well, its all been done before, and better. A moderate amount of sweepage is great, but i dont think it really needs that much development to sound great, and the development post-that starts to sound like "FweeeeeeP FweeeeeeeeePFwoooooooop"....

A. Shawn's bar use sounds like mwopmwopmwooopmewpmwop. Bar use that I like sounds like wahwoohwaaaahwooah! Only way I can put it really.

Pah, Vai fans... :p:

Fair enough. :)

B. And Gilbert is still better at it.

Sure, it takes all sorts. I prefer Shawn's picking, but hey.

wil
05-05-2006, 07:58 AM
i have a question.
If you any of you guys play a looped bending lick ie--

----------------------------------------
---------12h15p12--------12h15h12--
-14b16-------------14b16---------------
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------

Is it better to-
a) Keep your hand in a fixed position and bend the G string UP, as in towards the ceiling with you middle finger and execute the hammers and pulls with your ring finger

OR

b)Pull the G string DOWN towards the floor, releasing the bend and then concetrating on the pull offs. This means the fret hand is moving around more and im also worried that the pulling/snapping motion of bending downwards using only my middle finger is putting too much strain on the tendons?

I dont know how well ive explained this---I can do both things ive mentioned but i find it easier to do the second one but im worried ive just lapsed into a bad habit...

Stratwizard
05-05-2006, 08:13 AM
Well, I'd bend the G UP with my ring finger and do the pull-offs with index and pinky.

Matt_Malmsteen
05-05-2006, 08:55 AM
Thanx for the Friedman recommendations, I'll go and look at tabs for them asap.

And for that I'd bend on the G with my third finger and do the pull-offs with my pinky and index finger.

ukdudeinuk
05-06-2006, 06:52 PM
I would also bend with the ring. In fact I do when playing licks of that nature, like I was earlier. Lots of fun.

Acϵ♠
05-06-2006, 06:59 PM
When you bend, do you bend the string up or down?


For some reason i bend it downwards and towards the palm of my fretting hand. Anyone think this is bad technique?

Gman400
05-06-2006, 07:15 PM
Yeah, since you can't physically do that on the high E which is like, the most bended string.

Well, basically the rule is: G, B and high e strings are bent up (towards your head) and the low E, A and D strings are bent down towards your palm.

TheUltimateSin
05-06-2006, 07:27 PM
Ok, so I was watching the Hear N' Aid "Stars" video again and I was watching George Lynch carefully when his part came up in the song. Does anyone know what his picking style in that? And if so, is it generally complicated or not to play in it? I have recently become fascinated with George Lynch and I like his picking style.

this may seem like a dumb set of questions, but remember: I am currently technique-ignorant right now :)

Midnight 260
05-08-2006, 08:13 AM
Bending questions answer

E B G bend for teh sky, D A E bend torward ur little guy

Sweetbabyjezuz
05-08-2006, 02:54 PM
Stupid question.

I was watching a Michael Romeo instructional video (the young guitar one I posted on page 2/3 of the video upload thread)

And he was showing how he sweeps an apreggio and then with his other hand taps an appregio at the same time.

My question is, i get it, he sweeps one apregg and taps the other, but which ones? (is there a correlation) and which notes does he choose? Like there are sometimes multiple notes on the same string on an apreggio (usually bottom E/TopE/A or something) so when he's sweeping the first appregio, which one of the multiple note strings does he select to actually fret?

And the same question for what you would tap, would you tap the first or second notes that are on the same string, etc.

Stratwizard
05-08-2006, 03:00 PM
I usually tap the root note of the arpeggio. So, if I played a Bm arpeggio starting from the note B on the A string, I'd tap the B note on the E string.

I'm sure the guys with more theory knowledge can help better. I use too much my ears... :(

Reemster
05-08-2006, 03:35 PM
Could you point out which part of that instructional you're talking about? ( which minute/ excercise number)

Acϵ♠
05-08-2006, 09:34 PM
k so what's tremolo picking

Erc
05-08-2006, 09:43 PM
picking one note very fast to give a shaky sound.

Sweetbabyjezuz
05-08-2006, 10:50 PM
Well for example at the times. I'm actually more interested though in the technique or "shape" rather than the notes, but i'm sure that would really help (especially if its movable)

34:05 Ex-26
34:50 Ex-27 near the end
35:34 Ex-28

etc etc. Actually if anybody just knew in general if those things are tabbed out or anything for that lesson would be great. But instead of just the tab i'm also wondering exactly which of the notes in the arpeggios he hits etc.

White_Devil
05-09-2006, 03:30 AM
ive never really tried tapping seriously untill now, so can someone explain me the correct teqnique? what im not sure of is how i hold my right arm, because my arm gets really tensed and sore after a while. should i rest it on the guitar?

Matt_Malmsteen
05-09-2006, 05:57 AM
^I wouldn't rest you're arm on the guitar as you're more likely to hit the strings and take longer to get back to a picking position.


Erm..this is gonna be a lame explanation but here goes.
Basically tapping is hammering-on and pulling-off with a finger from your picking hand whilst usually doing something differently with your fretting hand,
I say usually because you don't always have to be doing big arppegios and legato licks whilst tapping, you can use it for harmonics etc.

A basic idea would be this:

E|--0h10p0-t12-0h8p0-t12-0h7p0-t12-0h5p0-t12~ 7p5-t12-9p5-t12-7p5-t12-9p5-t12
B|-----------------------------------------------------------
G|-----------------------------------------------------------

E|7p5-t12-9p5-t12-14bu15-t18(keep tapping)-15~
B|
G|

That's like a basic E minor ish tapping sequence but it gives you a general idea, the end bit is that you keep tapping whilst bending up and bending down until you do the end vibrato on the G.

That's really basic though, erm..in terms of your arm it should be coming across the guitar but not hitting the guitar, try not to rest your arm as it will take more time to get back to a picking position.

Also there really isn't right or wrong finger to tap with but I recommend using your second finger as this way you can still hold your pick and tap, but alot of guitarists do it differently so is best to find which you're more comfortable with. It's also a good idea to mute the strings you're not using with your palm to avoid making any unwanted noise.

After you've got used to using one finger you can use your other fingers and then tap out big arppegios and scale runs at the same time, doing something different with both hands, Michael Romeo does this sometimes and Joe Satriani also does it alot.

Hope that helped ;)
but as you can tell I'm not too clever with these things.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86DEKFissl4&search=buckethead
The tapping at the end of that video should give you a good idea of arm position etc.

~1954~
05-09-2006, 06:15 AM
Can anybody tell me the correct technique for Chicken Picking? I know its not really shred technique but anything would be helpful

thanxs

ukdudeinuk
05-11-2006, 11:54 AM
Its where you pick with a pick AND fingers, 1954. Like, if you have a string skipping pattern like this...

e|-------14----------14--------14-
B|--------------------------------
G|--12--------12-----------12-----

but hopefully less lame and more interesting...you would pick the G string with your pick and the e with your middle finger, assuming you hold the pick like most people. This allows you to haul ass on string skipping links, which is pretty sweet. I have a Zakk Wylde lesson in a Guitar World that has a sweet lick for this....and it goes about like this.



e|-----------15----------15---------15---------15-------------15----------15------15
B|------------------------------------------------------11h12-----------------------
G|----------------------------------------11h12-------------------11h12-------------
D|----------------------------11h12----------------------------------------11h12----
A|----------------11h12-------------------------------------------------------------
E|-11h12----------------------------------------------------------------------------



And you keep going up and down with the 11-12 thing. It sounds pretty cool when played quickly.

Freepower
05-11-2006, 01:54 PM
http://www.freeguitarvideos.com/LJ2/LJ2T05a.html

~1954~
05-12-2006, 06:09 AM
Thankyou Freepower that helped... ukdueinuk, i dont think thats chicken picking like what i meant, thats like a fingerstyle pick and fingers technique... i think

ukdudeinuk
05-12-2006, 11:03 AM
That is chicken pickin'. You use a PICK, or plectrum...AND your fingers. Chicken pickin'.

Edit:ZOMG. I went and looked at the tab..and I forgot the hammerons. So Ive changed it. See above.

Axegrinder#9
05-13-2006, 01:52 AM
goddamn, "Evil Eye" is a fairly tough nut to crack, or maybe it's just me being out of touch

Stratwizard
05-13-2006, 03:58 AM
or maybe it's just me being out of touch

Welcome to the club!

pavan
05-13-2006, 12:10 PM
I welcome you both as the President!

I played for the first time in 2 months, and it feels really wierd!

Stratwizard
05-13-2006, 12:42 PM
I have barely touched my guitar in 2-3 months, as we have all the exams now... :(

Freepower
05-13-2006, 02:41 PM
Wtf? Exams Mean Practice!

Matt_Malmsteen
05-13-2006, 03:16 PM
Not for me I have four exams to revise for so I'm not getting much practice at all.

dimebag7
05-13-2006, 03:22 PM
sweeps are really pissing me off... like i know the tech, but i keep ****ing up on the not letting your fingers stay there, like i get lazy and then they get all sloppy, unless i work really hard on them, but if i dont practice them and just paly then add em in , i do the tech wrong.

Freepower
05-13-2006, 05:54 PM
Well, thats good to know. Thanks for that.

Scorzerci
05-13-2006, 06:06 PM
Fortunately I still have quite a few years to go till my exams, but last week I was gone on a fieldtrip so there wasn't much guitar playing for me then:(.

Gman400
05-13-2006, 06:17 PM
Question about tremolo picking:

I've been playing for about 2 and a half years holding my pick with the thumb, index and middle. Just about a month ago I decided to take my middle finger off to hopefully correct my technique. Now it's harder to tremolo pick accurately because I don't have that extra finger to stabilize the pick. Will this get better over time as I strengthen my hand or whatever?

Also, a question about picking/tremolo in general:

I can tremolo pick pretty good (w/ the exception of the problem above) but when I get better, will these be tremolo to me anymore? Like will my regular picking get up to my tremolo speed so that i can play regular cross string riffs at the speed of tremolo?

Resiliance
05-13-2006, 06:28 PM
^Eh, don't you mean you took your middle finger off? Without thumb it'd be kinda hard. :p:

Anyway, yes, it'll get better.

And tremolo picking is pretty much the "roof" up to which your speed can go... It's not very realistic you'll reach that speed on difficult patterns, but it's possible on for example three note per string licks. More realistic is that as your tremolo picking speed improves so will your general speed.

Gman400
05-13-2006, 07:20 PM
Ok thanks. Do you think I should practice tremolo consistantly or mostly rely on just improving my regular picking speed in order to get faster? Sorry if this is a stupid question :/

Resiliance
05-13-2006, 07:22 PM
Regular picking speed without a doubt.

VaiSatchLaiho
05-13-2006, 09:42 PM
Question: My guitar teacher (very good, teaches college courses) said that I shouldn't use my pinky to anchor the rest of my hand on the body of the guitar because it mutes the tone slightly and limits mobility. This seems weird to me, because I can go much faster and cleaner using the anchor technique. Could anyone give a group of pros who do anchor and a group that doesn't? Any other tips? Thanks.

SnowballofDoom
05-13-2006, 09:52 PM
Listen to your teacher :)

Read these:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339913&page=1
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354882&page=1

Petrucci, Morse, and Malmsteen play anchored, while Gilbert, Lane, and Cooley don't.

Four-Sticks
05-13-2006, 09:57 PM
^I'd say the second triplet of people there can go into 20+nps with ease, while the first group is in the teens and only briefly go past 20nps.

chase09
05-13-2006, 10:05 PM
^You sir, are correct. Although, anchoring is much easier and feels more natural, I think I might make the effort to stop.

Scorzerci
05-14-2006, 07:03 AM
^^^yeah (well I've rarely seen/heard Gilbert go 20+ nps).

Resiliance
05-14-2006, 07:29 AM
^You sir, are correct. Although, anchoring is much easier and feels more natural, I think I might make the effort to stop.

That's simply untrue... Only to you, because you're used to it.

And Scorzerci: Gilbert doesn't really use much of his chops, you know. I'm sure if he'd go all out he'd be well above the 20 nps mark.

wil
05-14-2006, 07:35 AM
^^Absolutely--i hate the way some people dont really take Gilbert's playing as seriously as Lane or Cooley's---the guy is a ****ing shred monster, watch the intro to Intense Rock---im not saying he hits 20nps there, but look he easy he makes it--the other thing with Gilbert is his use of accents, he uses them at ANY speed, he never forfeits dynamics for sheer speed.

Matt_Malmsteen
05-14-2006, 08:01 AM
I love Paul Gilbert....

Freepower
05-14-2006, 08:02 AM
^ remember that scarified intro solo? Gilbert is a bloody freak, and tbh, his right hand technique is some of the best i've ever seen. He just never really goes all out...but seriously, you just need to see him do an outside string skip so fast and hard that his hand blurs and you just about hear this "SNAP" noise...

^I'd say the second triplet of people there can go into 20+nps with ease, while the first group is in the teens and only briefly go past 20nps.

No, the second triplet can only do 20+ on their fastest licks. The first wont touch it without some serious sweepage or tappage. The fastest guitarist list is based on the very fastest runs, so dont take it as gospel for everyday usage. Im updating it pretty soon.

Regular picking speed without a doubt.

To reinforce what resi said, the hardest part of picking is changing strings, it's what will slow you down on complex patterns. To that end, practicing tremolo picking will do you zero good if your problem is inside string changing, not single string speed.

Your top speed is dictated by the weakest part of each run. So in a 3nps scale, your highest speed will be limited by the worst movement, which is usually an outside or inside string skip. :)

wil
05-14-2006, 08:15 AM
Ever seen Gilbert go through his string skipped arpeggios---i thin its on INtense Rock 2?-He plays these monster arpeggios to the progression of canon in D--and he goes through them slow, talking about how hard some of the string skips are, and then when he does the whole thing "up-to-speed" its just a frickin blur, over in about 5 seconds...

Im telling, the guy is one of the best in the business, he just tends to focus on pentatonic stuff because thats what beginners to shred want to see, as opposed to being overwhelmed by heavy theory etc, he makes it fun--Paul is the first to admit that a lot of his stuff is simple elaborations on an even simpler idea, its just the speed, intensity and dynamic approach he takes that make it sound so damn good.

ps--My laptop died the other day and now ive lost 40gb of music---i was in the process of backing iot up, but i didnt get too far--saved POwers of Ten etc, but lost Truth in Shredding, all Satch, all Vai etc...--and i lost my Guitarpro and about 10,000 guitar pro files---boo hoo hoo... :cry:
I'll get a new hard drive soon, but i'll invest in an external one to rebuild my collection.

Resiliance
05-14-2006, 08:27 AM
because thats what beginners to shred want to see

That's not true. He doesn't do it because that's what people want to see... He does it because he likes it.

wil
05-14-2006, 08:38 AM
That's not true. He doesn't do it because that's what people want to see... He does it because he likes it.
:o :o
IM sure he 'likes' playing neoclassical things as well, but in the more 'general' lessons and interviews ive read with him, he applauds the pentatonic as being versatile and to a certain degree, a failsafe as all of the notes sound ''right''--he's the first to admit that some of his exercises can sound a little contrived, but theyre a means to getting to grips with a certain technique and then EXPANDING on it---ive seen footage of him where he'll play a basic pentatonic exercise and then 'colour' it with all kinds of chromatic variations, blue notes, changing of sclaes form major to minor, augmented notes, diminshed notes, dorian, mixolydian, phrygian ideas--but he says he doesnt want to overwhelm people with these variations, as they should ultimately be up to the player's discretion--he simply offers the 'building' blocks--He's always encouraging people to diversify and expand.

Resiliance
05-14-2006, 08:48 AM
... But he doesn't do it because that's what people want to see... :p:

ILoveHarmonics
05-14-2006, 09:05 AM
^^That is from guitars from mars 2.
I actually learned some better blues improv from that which aided my wankery at jamming nights a lot :D. It's funny how he comments on his licks in his video's. "And it contains a lot of position shifts so euh.. go ahead and impress the neighbours".

Matt_Malmsteen
05-14-2006, 09:07 AM
I've just been practising my sweeping and my fingers **** up when I go to use the same finger again...I can like...some five string stuff but when I have to use a finger again..for example:

E|--12
B|------13
G|----------14
D|--------------15
A|-------------------14
E|

I find the B on the A string hard to hit because I have to use my third finger again. I just find it difficult.

So does anyone have any tips or ideas for ways that i can sort this problem out?

Archaon
05-14-2006, 09:22 AM
I hate to say it because it's a fairly obvious response, but, practice? Maybe your fingers just aren't used to that kind of pattern yet. I remember some time ago I couldn't do the 1, 2, 4 chromatic pattern, now I'm pretty decent. Just takes the fingers some time to get used to it I suppose.

wil
05-14-2006, 09:55 AM
... But he doesn't do it because that's what people want to see... :p:

Im sure that has SOMETHING to do with it, you have to turn people on--not literally-with what you play, we've come to expect great pentatonic ideas from PG so when i watch a lesson of his, thats what I want to see.

Stratwizard
05-14-2006, 10:12 AM
Lol what's all the PG hype suddenly? :p: Tired of worshipping Lane? :haha

gtgram14
05-14-2006, 06:44 PM
I find the B on the A string hard to hit because I have to use my third finger again. I just find it difficult.

So does anyone have any tips or ideas for ways that i can sort this problem out?

practice excercises with just your pinky and ring finger, itll improve your dexterity and make that sweep alot easier. Just come up with a variety of things to practice.

TylerRRR
05-14-2006, 09:21 PM
I'm currently learning far beyond the sun... but I've recently gotten to this part



-|-21-19-17-16-19-17-16-14-17-16-14-13---
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------


16-14p13---------------------------------------------------------------
-------------15p14---12--------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------13-11-10-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------12-11-9---------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------12-11-9-8~----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
and I can't seem to fit my fat fingers in the 21st fret and downwards that fast... how do you suggust I practice this?

chase09
05-14-2006, 09:29 PM
That's simply untrue... Only to you, because you're used to it.


I meant that it's easier and feels more natural to me. Sorry for wording that post poorly. I wasn't trying to state that anchoring is more natural in general, but it was for me as it was just a habit I picked up on subconsciously when I started getting into the "shred scene".

apocalypse13
05-14-2006, 11:22 PM
And Scorzerci: Gilbert doesn't really use much of his chops, you know. I'm sure if he'd go all out he'd be well above the 20 nps mark.
On this subject:

Gilbert's use of dynamics, accents, triplets, subtle speed changes, muting, and pick attack is ridiculous.

I haven't seen anyone touch his muting/dynamics and sheer smoothness. Seriously, nobody looks slicker when they're playing around the 18 nps range. Nobody.

I'm currently learning far beyond the sun... but I've recently gotten to this part



-|-21-19-17-16-19-17-16-14-17-16-14-13---
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------
-|---------------------------------------


16-14p13---------------------------------------------------------------
-------------15p14---12--------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------13-11-10-----------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------12-11-9---------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------12-11-9-8~----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
and I can't seem to fit my fat fingers in the 21st fret and downwards that fast... how do you suggust I practice this?Do it slower.

Beckerism
05-14-2006, 11:41 PM
Lol what's all the PG hype suddenly? :p: Tired of worshipping Lane? :haha

Don't know about them, but I'm still sticking with my original. :haha

wil
05-15-2006, 08:00 AM
OK, because i can play Yngwie's Vengeance, most (if not all) metallica and some similar slayer riffs(yes, i know theyre awful but im putting this in context)--i took it for granted for a long time that i could play Wasted Years by Iron Maiden---i learned all the rhythms and the solo without too much difficulty but i realised recently that i was p;laying the riff---a descent down the E natural minor scale with the high e as a pedal tone---far too quickly and when i came to slow it down and play along with the record, i found it really difficult.

I know the riff isnt too fast or anything, but i found my picking wrist lacked the co-ordination to p;lay it at this steady tempo-===I can alt.pick across the strings a lot faster than Wasted Years' tempo, but i cant really explain....its like there's NOT ENOUGH wrist movement when picking on one string and i find myself tensing up when i only have to move the pick in a basic, contained down-up motion.

I found i could play it at a decreased tempo by not resting any part of my forearm on the guitar--sort of floating my hand in the air, and im wondering whether i should take this approach(ill admit it feels weird) and restructure my playing approach entirely?

I mean, people might say '' what about palm muting'?'' but surely its better to learn this way and then use palm muting to your own discretion rather than ONLY learn to play with your wrist planted on the bridge?

Does that make a word of sense??

Matt_Malmsteen
05-15-2006, 09:47 AM
^^ I think what you're refering to is anchoring, which is resting your wrist on the guitar.

There was a thread about this recently but it is better to NOT anchor as it slows you down for one and can cause tension and therefore wrist problems.

Personally I used to anchor until recently and I'm still disciplining myself to not anchor but I can say it's alot better, makes string skipping easier and palm muting at your own discretion isn't that difficult, for example the palm muted bit in For Whom The Bells Tolls(the Kirk Hammet bit nearer the beginning).....is what I used to practice the palm muting thing...then I went onto do triplets and gallops etc.


This floating you talk about is what alot of players like Gilbert and Lane do and their picking technique as you can see is amazing.

So yeah you should slow down to learn how to play without anchoring, it'll benefit your picking alot.

..Also it didn't make too much sense, so if this response seems weird or off, it's because I didn't get entirely what you meant :p:

Scorzerci
05-15-2006, 11:45 AM
^Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't anchoring when you rest the fingers on your picking hand that aren't holding the pick on the guitar?

Resiliance
05-15-2006, 11:56 AM
^Or wrist.

Scorzerci
05-15-2006, 12:50 PM
so then resting your wrist on the bridge is bad as well?? DAMNIT!

Freepower
05-15-2006, 03:34 PM
Ah, the word "resting"... so innocuous!

wil
05-15-2006, 04:54 PM
so basically, my entire forearm should not be touching the guitar?? Ive seen footage of Gilbert where the side of his wrist seems to be resting on the bridge and i didnt realise this could be such a problem---im beginning to think i may have to start from scratch here people...

But when i practise on an acoustic, the front of my elbow is resting on the top of the guitar which is unavoidable, yet seems to be in itself, causing tension.

The plot thickens...

Freepower
05-15-2006, 05:01 PM
^ yup, thats why tiny-bodied acoustics were invented, apparently.

I try and keep my forearm off the guitar, because its easy to fall into "leaning" into the guitar with it. Otoh, its a posture thing. Depending how you sit with the guitar, and its body shape, you might end up with more bother extending the arm "out from the body" than you have with your arm touching.

One thing i will warn you, is that you'll have to get used to the reaction of the string more - because your arm isnt stuck to the board, you'll have to consciously deal with the force of the string's reaction against your pick. Of course, when you get used to releasing your reaction to the reaction, you'll see huge improvement, because its very hard to release properly with your arm stuck to the body. :)

wil
05-15-2006, 05:11 PM
Well, im in a bit of a difficult situation then--

a} My acoustic is a huge bodied 12 string--albeit a six at the moment--and i've found that the thicker strings and larger gap between the strings means that im getting better at the whole principle of strict alternate picking

b} the bloody size of the thing means that my arm is sort of 'flopped' over it--i really tried earleir to 'float' my hand and however slow and laborious it was, i could feel my control getting better, but like i said, the body of the guitar was wedged into the bend of my elbow and began to give me quite an unpleasant feeling- :(

Should i just abandon the acoustic and go back to my telecaster and concentrate on getting the principle of 'unanchored' picking down??

I sometimes feel im dwelling on this a bit too much, but i havent really found any help on this anywhere---most DVDs just say 'play whichever way works for you'---people around always say 'wow, you can pick really fast' but i know deep down its not the way i want it---I dont want to become an all-picking, bumblebee in a jar, its just got to the frustrating point now where its something i need to get out of my system...

Im beginning to realise though that 1 hour of clean, unanchored picking is going to be more benefitial than three hours, distorted, anchored picking yes?

Freepower
05-15-2006, 05:15 PM
Oh, hell yes. Especially if you take time to feel every time the string "pushes" back at your arm, because its something that you eliminate when you anchor, but is essential to your technique.

And try some string skipping. See the difference in motion and dynamics you can acheive...

In short, realise the limitations of your acoustic by surpassing them on other guitars and then feel the difference.

Scorzerci
05-15-2006, 05:18 PM
Alright I moved my wrist off the bridge and I can notice that there is a lot less tension, but is it really gonna improve my picking technique if i completely raise my arm so that I'm not touching the guitar because when I do that I have a lot less control, I can't pick anywhere near as fast as I usually can and there is seems to be a lot more tension?

Matt_Malmsteen
05-15-2006, 05:19 PM
To Wil: Man don't get so bugged over your picking, I mean yeah you're gonna have to practise loads to get the anhoring out of your system(as I'm finding out) but it's worth it, and also you've gotta think if all you're really concentrating on is getting your picking to a uber high standard some of the other aspects of your playing aren't getting enough attention and so you'll have say uber picking but **** something else.

And Scorzeci: Also if you think about standing with your guitar, if there's any tension in the arm itself eventually it's going to effect some part of your arm right, so it's best if when you play stood up you completely relax your arm and wrist and really your arm shouldn't be on the body of your guitar unless you're muting and then only briefly if at all.

Look at it this way, your arm goes down straight and your guitar sticks out, so if your resting your arm on the guitar to a degree you're putting it in a more awkward position than if you left it to dangle in a relaxed way, this puts more strain on the arm if it's in an an awkward postion and so may make you feel very uncomfortable and affect your playing.

Tis all really down to just practising it and practising it, I've had to slow down alot but I've been doing it for what....3weeks and I can see the improvements already.

Freepower
05-15-2006, 05:25 PM
but is it really gonna improve my picking technique if i completely raise my arm so that I'm not touching the guitar because when I do that I have a lot less control, I can't pick anywhere near as fast as I usually can and there is seems to be a lot more tension?

That depends on how much you have to move your arm to get it not to touch. Ideal world = no contact.

In the real world, thats often impractical, you've found out that you can only move your arm so far before you lose any benefit from non-anchoring. Try and find the exact point where you have the most freedom from non-anchoring for the least effort for supporting a stupidly angled arm. Today i got a stiff shoulder because i was unanchored too far from my body and because of my damn shoulder tension.

apocalypse13
05-15-2006, 05:27 PM
so then resting your wrist on the bridge is bad as well?? DAMNIT!
With a Floyd rose, it's almost impossible to rest your hand on the bridge, so that's a plus for me. I don't anchor. :D

wil
05-15-2006, 05:38 PM
so do you think it would be benefitial to practise standing up, unanchored practising a basic, Gilbert/MAB style 3nps lick on a clean channel with a moderate metronome tempo while looking in a mirror?

To Matt Malmsteen, i know i sound too hung up on this, but the most humbling experience for me was when on my summer job my friend went around the factory saying i was really good and we got talking to an ex-session player who lent me a video of himself back in the eighties and when i saw his totally clean, Albert Lee style jazz/country lines all alt. picked i realised my technique wasnt really worth squat. :mad: Youre right that i could be neglecting other areas of my playing but im really not, when ive had enough/got too infuriated with the picking i'll give my picking hand a rest and do all one handed legato ideas, or just down the guitar and study some theory instead or just listen to music---I learned more about jazz chords, m7b5's, 6/9s, maj 9s and all kinds of inversions by l;istening to Tal Farlow and Grant Green today than any book ive come across!

Hong Siah
05-15-2006, 10:54 PM
What if anchoring also means muting the bottom unused strings? Is that bad as well?

Gman400
05-15-2006, 11:06 PM
I'm not sure if I anchor or not...I don't plant my wrist so that it doesn't move anywhere; it moves vertically across the strings as I switch between them and stuff, but I do have it in contact with them lightly most of them time. Also I really don't get how you're supposed to palm mute without anchoring correctly. The 2 techniques are complete oppisites. Still though, even when I'm palm muting my wrist moves across the strings as I go up or down so...I think I'm okay?

Hong Siah
05-15-2006, 11:17 PM
^I think we have the same problem?

Freepower
05-16-2006, 04:59 AM
What if anchoring also means muting the bottom unused strings? Is that bad as well?

But anchoring DOESNT mean muting the bottom unused strings...its bad to anchor. Its not bad to control string noise. How you control string noise is up to you, but there are ways of right hand control unanchored. See the thread in MT.

Still though, even when I'm palm muting my wrist moves across the strings as I go up or down so...I think I'm okay?

Sure.

Matt_Malmsteen
05-16-2006, 06:29 AM
To Matt Malmsteen, i know i sound too hung up on this, but the most humbling experience for me was when on my summer job my friend went around the factory saying i was really good and we got talking to an ex-session player who lent me a video of himself back in the eighties and when i saw his totally clean, Albert Lee style jazz/country lines all alt. picked i realised my technique wasnt really worth squat. :mad: Youre right that i could be neglecting other areas of my playing but im really not, when ive had enough/got too infuriated with the picking i'll give my picking hand a rest and do all one handed legato ideas, or just down the guitar and study some theory instead or just listen to music---I learned more about jazz chords, m7b5's, 6/9s, maj 9s and all kinds of inversions by l;istening to Tal Farlow and Grant Green today than any book ive come across!


I see what you mean.

And what you said about practising in a mirror, give it a go... I do that sometimes and that's made me focus on my hand position alot more so it does do good I figure.

ILoveHarmonics
05-16-2006, 08:09 AM
That depends on how much you have to move your arm to get it not to touch. Ideal world = no contact.

In the real world, thats often impractical, you've found out that you can only move your arm so far before you lose any benefit from non-anchoring. Try and find the exact point where you have the most freedom from non-anchoring for the least effort for supporting a stupidly angled arm. Today i got a stiff shoulder because i was unanchored too far from my body and because of my damn shoulder tension.

Yay I'm not the only one with a tensed shoulder. Maybe two weeks without the guitar might actually improve my playing by curing that darn neck and shoulders.

Sweetbabyjezuz
05-16-2006, 01:43 PM
Stupid question.
I was watching a Michael Romeo instructional video (the young guitar one I posted on page 2/3 of the video upload thread)

And he was showing how he sweeps an apreggio and then with his other hand taps an appregio at the same time.

My question is, i get it, he sweeps one apregg and taps the other, but which ones? (is there a correlation) and which notes does he choose? Like there are sometimes multiple notes on the same string on an apreggio (usually bottom E/TopE/A or something) so when he's sweeping the first appregio, which one of the multiple note strings does he select to actually fret?

And the same question for what you would tap, would you tap the first or second notes that are on the same string, etc.

Plzz
Well for example at the times. I'm actually more interested though in the technique or "shape" rather than the notes, but i'm sure that would really help (especially if its movable)

34:05 Ex-26
34:50 Ex-27 near the end
35:34 Ex-28

etc etc. Actually if anybody just knew in general if those things are tabbed out or anything for that lesson would be great. But instead of just the tab i'm also wondering exactly which of the notes in the arpeggios he hits etc.

Can somebody help me out here?

Freepower
05-16-2006, 03:15 PM
It should be fairly obvious. Which arpeggio does he use? Where does he tap? That kinda narrows it down REAL quick. If you cant do that, you shouldnt be tapping those arps anyhoo.

Johnny83191
05-16-2006, 09:40 PM
Can someone please help?! I just watched that video on sweeping, and that made me very confused. It said to do it just like strumming, but I can not do it for some reason! It's really making me mad, and I can't tell if I am doing it right. And on the vid, it was economy picking, isnt that different then sweeping? And if you rest your arm on your guitar its considered anchoring? wouldnt that make your arm ache?

apocalypse13
05-16-2006, 10:04 PM
so do you think it would be benefitial to practise standing up, unanchored practising a basic, Gilbert/MAB style 3nps lick on a clean channel with a moderate metronome tempo while looking in a mirror?
Uber-Beneficial. I do it all the time, and it really helps. ('Cept I use distortion most of the time, but either way it works)
What if anchoring also means muting the bottom unused strings? Is that bad as well?
I'm not sure if I anchor or not...I don't plant my wrist so that it doesn't move anywhere; it moves vertically across the strings as I switch between them and stuff, but I do have it in contact with them lightly most of them time. Also I really don't get how you're supposed to palm mute without anchoring correctly. The 2 techniques are complete oppisites. Still though, even when I'm palm muting my wrist moves across the strings as I go up or down so...I think I'm okay?
It's fine. Anchoring would be for instance:
-Resting your arm/wrist on the body of the guitar
-Placing an unused finger on the body of the guitar

Anchoring WOULDN'T be:
-Muting strings with your palm whilst your arm/wrist is not touching the body of the guitar

Can someone please help?! I just watched that video on sweeping, and that made me very confused. It said to do it just like strumming, but I can not do it for some reason! It's really making me mad, and I can't tell if I am doing it right. Well, it requires precise left hand muting and you have to start really slow. And on the vid, it was economy picking, isnt that different then sweeping? yes, econ is for example:

---------1-2-3
-1-2-3

To economy pick that, you'd go Downstroke, Upstroke, Downstroke, downstroke, upstroke, downstroke. It requires minimal movement, however can be hindering when string skipping. There is no way to sweep that as sweeping is one constant motion, almost always one note per string.

-----------6
---------7
-------6
-----7
---8
-9

That you would sweep with one downstroke, making sure each note rings indivdually and doesn't sound like a chord.

And if you rest your arm on your guitar its considered anchoring? wouldnt that make your arm ache? Resting any part of your arm, wrist or hand on the guitar's body is anchoring. Muting the strings with your palm is not anchoring. It won't make your arm tired once you get used to it, and in the long run is much less tense and much more beneficial.

Erich yeung
05-16-2006, 11:51 PM
Bah, I love anchoring, screw you guys. It mutes your top strings when youre not playing, and I have no problem with co-ordination and control. All it takes is slow practise. I did have the same problem a you wil, but i pretty much just practised articulation, control, dynamics, etc. Horribly slow ;) of course. In months time all that has improved. The only downfall I find is when it comes to open picked chords, it can get quite frustrating when you need the notes ringing so no planting :(. Also i don't think the forearm and wrist planting causes tension. It really depends. If you practise without or with minimal tension, its going to remain the same if you take it up step by step. I don't know :confused:, IMO it just takes discipline.

SnowballofDoom
05-16-2006, 11:58 PM
If you don't think anchoring produces tension...well... you'd be wrong.

Erc
05-17-2006, 12:06 AM
Also i don't think the forearm and wrist planting causes tension. It really depends.

Just because you don't think it does doesn't mean it doesn't. It is physically impossible to not have tension created by having yourself anchored. It really doesn't depend...it really isn't relative to the person.

Jules
05-17-2006, 03:44 AM
Ok, I posted this as a
separate thread but that didn?t work so well so I?ll ask my question here:
I have a question for those who can play
Bark at the moon by Ozzy

I've been busy really learning this song.
Speeding it up from insanel slow using a metronome and such
Even though I'm only at 60% or so of it's original speed.
Everything I can play smoothly and easily.
Except the last run on the first solo
That's just insane even slowed down to half speed that lick is a bitch.
Mind you that I hear Zakk Wylde playing it different live.
And Jake E Lee?s version live is just insane. :eek: :bonk:

So anyone can help me or give advice.
The way I play it right now is really alternate picking every note.
Not hammer ons and pull offs.
Because "I think" that's the way Jake E Lee played it. :confused:
But even in the recording it's just a crazy slur or notes. :eek:

So any advice would be VERY appreciated. :down:

Freepower
05-17-2006, 05:46 AM
The GP file i have says picked too.

What exactly do you find hard about it? Its not much different to the other runs, so what holds you back on this one?

Jules
05-17-2006, 06:04 AM
Well, the first problem is that it's much much faster then the rest.
on top of that I can't really say which fingering is the best.
The last run seems to be divided in four licks in a repeating pattern moving up the pentatonic minor scale.
The first one I play with my pinky to fret the highest note on the string.
second too
the third messes me up usually.
the fourth I play with my ringfinger to fret the highest note.

Basically, I've seen people tremollo pick it.
I've seen people do it hammer-on pull-off.
I've seen people play it almost legato.

This is by the way the fastest run I've ever attempted
Being guilty of guitarwanking for some time, I now am practising on precision
and technique, and this seemed like a worthy challenge.

The best thing I could think off would be a video of someone
playing the solo (good, I mean I've seen plenty off idiots
who rape this song on youtube)
So I could really see the fingering and technique.

Sorry if I'm sounding noobish.

Scorzerci
05-17-2006, 01:05 PM
But by not resting your arm on the guitar that means you have to hold up your arm therefore creating more tension?!? And if I am wrong what the hell is the point of armrests on guitars then?

Resiliance
05-17-2006, 01:10 PM
You don't "hold up" your arm, you let it float... Letting it float generates much less tension than any kind of anchoring would.

As for the armrests... What the hell is the point of escalators? Why not just use stairs?

Exactly.

Stratwizard
05-17-2006, 01:25 PM
As for the armrests... What the hell is the point of escalators? Why not just use stairs?



Elevator ftw. :p:

Freepower
05-17-2006, 03:43 PM
And if I am wrong what the hell is the point of armrests on guitars then?

Show me a pic of one, and i'll tell you what the point is. I look forward to it. :)

Scorzerci
05-17-2006, 04:18 PM
whats the point of it if you're not supposed to rest your arm on it (by the way if resting your arm on the body of the guitar is anchoring then Gilbert anchors?!?)
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apocalypse13
05-17-2006, 04:37 PM
Bah, I love anchoring, screw you guys. It mutes your top strings when youre not playing, and I have no problem with co-ordination and control.

>.<

Ok, I have no problem with you (you're cool around these parts,) but this seems to be a recurring misunderstanding around here. So, I'll explain this as blunt and hopefully as clearly as I can.

*ahem*
MUTING THE STRINGS WITH YOUR PALM IS NOT ANCHORING. ANCHORING IS RESTING ANY PART OF YOUR ARM OR WRIST ON THE BODY OF THE GUITAR. YES, THE BODY. NOT THE STRINGS. YOU DO NOT MUTE ANY DIFFERENT WITH THE UNANCHORED METHOD THAN YOU DO WITH ANCHORING. ANCHORING PRODUCES TENSION AND IT IS NO HARDER TO NOT ANCHOR WITH A BIT OF PRACTICE. YOU GOT WHERE YOU ARE NOW WITH ANCHORING WITH PRACTICE, NO? UNANCHORING IS NO DIFFERENT. PRACTICE, AND YOU'LL GET BETTER. END OF STORY!

Hopefully that's clear to anyone and everyone, and I mean no offense to anyone who I am directing this to. (Ie: Anchorers who don't see the problem)

Well, :peace:

Matt_Malmsteen
05-17-2006, 05:14 PM
^^:golfclap:

And elevators ftw fo' sho'

Johnny83191
05-17-2006, 09:00 PM
so muting the strings to stop feedback is okay? wow goshdarn guitar, I wish I wasn't such a perfectionist. By the way, I got the sweeping thing.

Erc
05-17-2006, 09:31 PM
Of course muting is okay, muting is uber important. Just you don't have your hand laying down on the body or bridge of the guitar all the time. Reaching down and "grabbing" ringing strings is just fine and necessary!

Erich yeung
05-17-2006, 11:44 PM
lol :p:, well I don't know honestly my teacher hasn't pointed out any problems with my picking technique as he is fussy when it comes to it, and I asked him about it, he says that if you put alot of pressure and sort of "lean" your weight on the body of the guitar it does create tension, but he says my arm is just lightly touching it and that what I'm doing is fine, I know I'm a stubborn son of a bitch but my teacher knows best I guess, I follow whatever he says so yeah, I have my camera back so maybe I'll post a vid of me picking something? Then we can isolate the problem if there is one :peace: ?

Erc
05-18-2006, 12:18 AM
Just to let you know, just because a guy is a teacher doesn't mean he doesn't teach bad habits.

There a ton of teachers around here where I live that advocate "do whats comfortable", "here put your pinky on the guitar to stablize yourself, its easier" and they are all wrong. Sure playing "the way thats comfortable" is OKAY at first, but it'll only hamper you later one (inless you naturally do have perfect technique....freaky..)

If you are at all using your picking hand as a point of referance(as opposed to the string you last picked), either with palm, pinky, some other finger, having it on the guitar at all times you are creating tension that can not be gotten rid of without unanchoring.

Get a pen and paper. Start scribbling/writing with your hand/arm on the table. Lift your arm/hand off the table and start scribbling/writing again. Notice the decrease in tension in the forearm wrist and shoulder and increase in freedom of movement. Of course its sloppier btw, but thats because you arn't used to writing un-anchored.

splice
05-18-2006, 12:36 AM
ARGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!anchoring unanchoring........who cares???

what is the guitar for?

is it for us to master and just be able to play everything we want to and be perfect on it?

no

its not

it is an instrument used to compliment songs......it is used along with other instruments to make this thing called MUSIC........crazy eh???

so play and make music and forget about being what most people consider technically perfect.........

thats the only thing about shred i dont like.......alot of shred fans are all about technical mastery and not about the music

just make your freakin music

Stratwizard
05-18-2006, 02:31 AM
There a ton of teachers around here where I live that advocate "do whats comfortable", "here put your pinky on the guitar to stablize yourself, its easier" and they are all wrong. Sure playing "the way thats comfortable" is OKAY at first, but it'll only hamper you later one (inless you naturally do have perfect technique....freaky..)


True. I used to have a teacher, who taught me that anchoring is good. I had to do quite a lot of work to get rid of that habit.

flamencogod
05-18-2006, 04:08 AM
I saw steve vai live this monday (10 foot in front of me), he anchors a lot too

Freepower
05-18-2006, 04:30 AM
whats the point of it if you're not supposed to rest your arm on it (by the way if resting your arm on the body of the guitar is anchoring then Gilbert anchors?!?)
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Equally, that kind of body shape could be for allowing more freedom for the arm. :)

If you watch PG - say, the IR intro - he doesnt rest his arm on it. It just touches it, his arm is completely free to move. Apart from friction and teh like, which is why he lifts it about a quarter centimeter for a lot of the fast runs. Watch him to the string skipping stuff - he is most definately above the bridge with his hand. Or a lot of the long scalar stuff, you can see his arm and the gap between it and the body. :)

Er, splice, shred fans want to play shred (call it a wild guess) for which they NEED technical brilliance...


Erich. Relax your hand completely. Extend your pinky. There. Can you do that completely relaxed?

Scorzerci
05-18-2006, 11:31 AM
http://racerxband.com/video/sequencedstringskip.wmv
right now my picking is basically just like Paul's in that vid (well not as good;)) so does that count as anchoring cus FP says Paul doesn't anchor, but Pauls arm is touching the body of the guitar?

splice
05-18-2006, 12:28 PM
ok......

i dont see a problem in anchoring

if it was so important then you wouldnt see professional musicians who went to music college and wer trained from birth doing it

thats my opinion

Resiliance
05-18-2006, 12:41 PM
^Dude, seriously.

You could get good at running hordes with one leg with enough practice, same goes for anchoring. Just because Steve Morse has to take heat treatment and warmup for an hour before he plays and has carpal tunnel doesn't mean you have to.

Scorzerci
05-18-2006, 01:48 PM
he does?:O

Matt_Malmsteen
05-18-2006, 03:12 PM
Seriously I don't get people who're happy with playing with poor technique, I mean I know it's music it's all about having fun and expressing yourself in your way etc

but why bother to play something if you're not going to do it correctly or well?

Resiliance
05-18-2006, 03:28 PM
It's simple...

http://resi.saug-meinen-schwanz.net/ambition.jpg


They don't.

Matt_Malmsteen
05-18-2006, 03:56 PM
:golfclap: Well said.

Gman400
05-18-2006, 04:26 PM
Wow ****ing christ I just wrote like 2 big paragraphs of well-structured sentences. ****...well it's pointless now I lose...at...okay Im gonna go play.

splice
05-18-2006, 04:48 PM
ok so what resi's saying is MAB, John Petrucci, Marty Friedman , Steve Morse and Joe Stump(just to name a few) dont have ambition

brilliant

Matt_Malmsteen
05-18-2006, 05:11 PM
No he's saying that people who know they have poor technique but do nothing about it have no ambition..

I'm sure they know their technique is bad, and they might try to correct it..but being as they have hectic schedules they might find it difficult to practice etc...

Dreadnought
05-18-2006, 05:12 PM
Eh, I anchor my pinky, and have no problems. Personal preference type of thing. If i need to be unanchored, then I do it, but the default position is anchored.