Jeff Loomis of Nevermore


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YYZ
05-20-2006, 03:02 PM
What does everyone think of him? Awesome or no? He's probably one of my favourite guitarists of the last few years (that's in an active band right now, not solo act shredders or anything). I just love basically aything he has ever done. He has some of the coolest riffs i've ever heard, his solo's are fantastic, even the ballads like "The Sorrowed Man" are ****en sweet.

I also have a question to, in the song The Holocaust Of Thought, is it Loomis playing the solo or Smyth?

Frobbage
05-20-2006, 03:16 PM
The Holocaust of Thought features James Murphy, ex- Death, Testament, Obituary, among others.

And yes, Loomis owns.

apocalypse13
05-20-2006, 03:43 PM
Loomis rocks man.

I can't ever get enough of the Psalm of Lydia.

YYZ
05-20-2006, 03:50 PM
The Holocaust of Thought features James Murphy, ex- Death, Testament, Obituary, among others.

And yes, Loomis owns.

Ok, I remember reading ex-testament guitarist somewhere and just figured it was Smyth.

Psalm Of Lydia is awesome. My favourite part of that song for some reason is just that nice litte palm muted riff. I really dig the song This Godless Endeavour right now, the riff at the end leading into the glorius sweeps. Love it.

Evil_Empire24-7
05-20-2006, 04:07 PM
there's a nevermore thread only in the metal forums

apocalypse13
05-20-2006, 04:09 PM
Yea but it's Jeff Loomis, I'd keep it open if I was a mod, it's technically not Nevermore.

Evil_Empire24-7
05-20-2006, 04:17 PM
and why u people make a flaming war when i post a thread about a certain guitarist ?

Erc
05-20-2006, 04:31 PM
^ Because we hate you, I thought we made that apparant 0_o

On topic, Jeff Loomis is nifty.

paddyo
05-20-2006, 04:38 PM
^ Because we hate you, I thought we made that apparant 0_o

On topic, Jeff Loomis is nifty.
:haha:haha:haha
True:)





And the word nifty rocks!

SGRocker0791
05-20-2006, 04:38 PM
Jeff Loomis = ownage. His is a very, very skilled guitarist. Even though his tone sucks now since using Krank IMO.

SGRocker0791
05-20-2006, 04:38 PM
there's a nevermore thread only in the metal forums

There's no ONLY thread for Nevermore.

Matt_Malmsteen
05-20-2006, 05:13 PM
Jeff Loomis spanks some serious ass....
Some of his stuff is so damn cool, like people have said Psalm Of Lydia..I can't help but love that song..man he pwns

apocalypse13
05-20-2006, 09:13 PM
^Seriously, I think if you don't like The Psalm of Lydia there's something wrong in your head.

and why u people make a flaming war when i post a thread about a certain guitarist ?Haven't you noticed that half the threads in the Shred forum turn into a flame war with noobs?

And it almost never has anything to do with the topic of the thread.



And, I'll have to agree with Paddyo that Erc's post was hilarious btw.

SnowballofDoom
05-20-2006, 10:46 PM
and why u people make a flaming war when i post a thread about a certain guitarist ?

Because it seems like everytime a guitarists name pops in your head, you decide to make a thread on it... which is usually:

*artist name*

What u think???

Or an equally vague poll, which just makes people want to say nasty things about you on the internet.

apocalypse13
05-20-2006, 10:55 PM
:haha

Erc
05-21-2006, 12:03 AM
Or an equally vague poll, which just makes people want to say nasty things about you on the internet.

I actually el oh eled on that one =)

And to be honest, I've never actually heard Psalm of Lydia =\

Mainly because I never bought "The Godless Endeavor" for what is really a religious reason. (If you are curious why, its because I try not to support albums/artists that are so balatant about its atheism)

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 09:11 AM
Hmm, like leftover crack!

apocalypse13
05-21-2006, 11:12 AM
I actually el oh eled on that one =)

And to be honest, I've never actually heard Psalm of Lydia =\

Mainly because I never bought "The Godless Endeavor" for what is really a religious reason. (If you are curious why, its because I try not to support albums/artists that are so balatant about its atheism)
hmmm, well, I can respect that.

I'm religious, but the way I look at it, it's just music, as long as you don't make it a way of life, I see no problem.

For example, Steve Harris leads a heavily religious lifestyle, he attends church as regularly as he can. If any of you don't know, he's Maiden's bassist, so his music doesn't really reflect his lifestyle.

Matt_Malmsteen
05-21-2006, 11:16 AM
^^Dave Mustaine also found god....and you wouldn't think so, he still performs holy wars which is weird, with the line
"Killing for religion, something I don't understand"
but goes to show you.

apocalypse13
05-21-2006, 11:25 AM
Well, that song's about war, particularly the nonstop conflict in the Middle East.

Basically, I believe that by just listening to an Un-Christian band doesn't make you Un-Christian as well. Their religion is their business. Granted, if it's extreme (like a Dark Funeral concert or something), I try to avoid it, but for the most part, hinting here and there doesn't really bother me.

Resiliance
05-21-2006, 12:19 PM
I actually el oh eled on that one =)

And to be honest, I've never actually heard Psalm of Lydia =\

Mainly because I never bought "The Godless Endeavor" for what is really a religious reason. (If you are curious why, its because I try not to support albums/artists that are so balatant about its atheism)

That I really really really really really don't get.

Way to promote tolerance. :confused:

SnowballofDoom
05-21-2006, 01:22 PM
Yeah... Eric, I don't understand that one either.

YYZ
05-21-2006, 02:18 PM
Oh, I just put the thread in here because I wanted to talk about Jeff Loomis, not Nevermore. Since he's a shredder I stuck it in here.

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 04:08 PM
btw erc, do you hate gay people?

Erc
05-21-2006, 04:51 PM
That I really really really really really don't get.

Way to promote tolerance.

Yeah... Eric, I don't understand that one either.

That's okay, you don't have to.

But there are people in this world are very impressionable, they copy what their idols do, they are easily influenced by the music they listen to, the movies they watch, the books they read etc. Everyone is impressionable, some less then others. I know that my opinions would not be changed by listening to a CD with atheistic or satanic views. But there are people out there that would only be bombarding themselves with a message that I find to be not true. Sure its a small part, and not doing much really, saves me a few bucks anyways, but you have to start somewhere. Is my decision morally correct? I think most certainly so.

Then arises the question, would someone else be right if they refuse to support "Christian" themed bands based on the fact that they are spreading a message they disagree with? Well then comes deeper questions.

With the rise of secularism, atheism, and agnostic theology there is also a rise in relativism and nihilism. The question arises...if you are athiestic or agnostic, are morals relative to you? If there isn't an outlining "good book" ,so to speak, of morals, then what defines right from wrong? With this mentality it would be you, and thus you come to the conclusion, if you can decide what is right and what is wrong (Post-Modernism), you are now a "god." This is something we call "New-Age theology."

But assuming that we all have some basic "morals" that we agree one, like love is good, hate is bad (which is apparant in libertarianism, striving for tolerance and equality among all mind-sets) [ on a side note, a libertarianism mind-set is a complete jokes with glaring impossible contradictions] we can come to the conclusion that with the non-supportive attitude of a message about love and sacrafice (Christian message) and the support of a message of the polar opposite, often with a hateful and selfish attitude, (atheism) then the advocate of anti-chrisitanity is indeed in the "wrong area" morally.

Of course now we start running in circles around moral truth and whether truth is relative and what not, which is something we arn't going to do.

Way to promote tolerance.

Tolerance is destroying morale america. As you can tell, I am very much against Post-Modernism. Truth and morality is NOT RELATIVE. There is truth, there is right and wrong, and it is defined by God's word.

btw erc, do you hate gay people?

Why should I hate gay people? I do not approve of the "gay lifestyle" one bit. I am very against it, but I do not hate gays.

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 04:54 PM
Ok, i was just wondering as you seem one of "those" types, i understand you not being for a certain lifestyle, but i couldnt possibly respect anyone who would think any less of a race, religion, or type of people for no reason other then prejudice.

Not trying to argue with your beliefs at all, i was just curious.

and im not saying i dont respect you. Well , maybe a little less, but eh.

LedZeppelin
05-21-2006, 04:59 PM
I actually el oh eled on that one =)

And to be honest, I've never actually heard Psalm of Lydia =\

Mainly because I never bought "The Godless Endeavor" for what is really a religious reason. (If you are curious why, its because I try not to support albums/artists that are so balatant about its atheism)

...This Godless Endeavor isn't blatantly about atheism...

apocalypse13
05-21-2006, 05:00 PM
Erc's long ass post ftw!

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 05:03 PM
No!

apocalypse13
05-21-2006, 05:05 PM
Yes, he said it well.

Btw, I made this a topic in the Religion thread in the Pit a little earlier today.

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 05:48 PM
yeah, but i dont agree with a lot of it, so eh. at least he isnt ignorant about it.

LedZeppelin
05-21-2006, 06:36 PM
The only hole in Erc's argument is in the fact that people who are atheists/agnostics are not necessarily abusive of their belief that there is no higher power, just as not all Christians are abusive of their belief that they are "in the right," so to speak, in terms of morals. Post-modernism is a bad thing, but I know many atheists/agnostics who simply abide by a personal code of morals. Erc's point of view lumps all non-believers into a mindset which is unintentionally (on Erc's part, it seems) arrogant. Truth can exist without God for non-believers; for Christians, we simply believe that truth comes from God, whether atheists or agnostics believe it or not.

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 06:43 PM
exactly, thank you for coming down to this forum to put things into glorious, glorious perspective.

Erc
05-21-2006, 06:57 PM
Erc's point of view lumps all non-believers into a mindset which is unintentionally (on Erc's part, it seems) arrogant

Elaborate on that.

The only hole in Erc's argument is in the fact that people who are atheists/agnostics are not necessarily abusive of their belief that there is no higher power, just as not all Christians are abusive of their belief that they are "in the right," so to speak, in terms of morals.

Elaborate on what you mean by "abusive." People who do not have a moral guide for their life make up their own. They pick and choose what they like, abandon those they dislike. That would be abuse right there.

Truth can exist without God for non-believers; for Christians, we simply believe that truth comes from God, whether atheists or agnostics believe it or not.

In this statement are you saying there are multiple "truths?" Since you refer the Christians as "we" I assume you call yourself one(correct me if I'm wrong) But how can you say such a statement when..

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I would like to mention that Christians are no better then anybody else. We sin just as much, we fail just as much and we fall short of the law just as much. The only thing that seperates us is that we have accepted the gift of salvation. Christianity is a faith based religion, not works based.

edit --> but I know many atheists/agnostics who simply abide by a personal code of morals.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. They create they own moral laws, pick and choose. I'm not saying that everyone who is atheistic is new-age, but new-age is getting to be a common end result these days. If you reject God, you think you are better then God. There is no way around that.

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 06:58 PM
so other religions aren't based on faith?

Erc
05-21-2006, 07:06 PM
Correct.

Christianity is the ONLY faith based religion. (Judiasm I suppose can count to, since after the destruction of the temple, and in result, animal sacrafice, the emphasis of personal relationship with God was hightened due to the rising of synagouges. This happenes a couple hundred years before Jesus came. Thelogians look at it as the time that God eased the transaction from Judiasm and what would later be called Christianity.)

All other religions have some sort of "status quota" you must maintain (pray this many times a day, sacrafice this much a day, do this many good deeds to up your karma etc.)

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 07:11 PM
Correct.

Christianity is the ONLY faith based religion. (Judiasm I suppose can count to, since after the destruction of the temple, and in result, animal sacrafice, the emphasis of personal relationship with God was hightened due to the rising of synagouges. This happenes a couple hundred years before Jesus came. Thelogians look at it as the time that God eased the transaction from Judiasm and what would later be called Christianity.)

All other religions have some sort of "status quota" you must maintain (pray this many times a day, sacrafice this much a day, do this many good deeds to up your karma etc.)

ok, that makes sense, i just misunderstood you i suppose.

I'm of the belief that jesus loved everyone, even those who did not follow him, and wanted men to follow his teachings, and not so much his every word. I know it doesnt say that word for word in the bible, but meh, thats faith for ya right? (no not really, but still)
I do believe in jesus, and god, and i follow the teachings of him and of all major religions, that to love your brother and be a good person, etc etc. I pray a lot, almost every night, and although i dont have a strict religion, i feel that i am a good enough person usually, and that is enough for me. I am not an athiest, and im not sure what agnostic is, but im probably not one.

So i dont want to get on you for what you think, just want peace, k?

Evil_Empire24-7
05-21-2006, 07:25 PM
is this thread about religions or about JEFF LOOMIS ?

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 07:27 PM
shhh dont interrupt, noob.

tupperware03x
05-21-2006, 07:42 PM
But there are people in this world are very impressionable, they copy what their idols do, they are easily influenced by the music they listen to, the movies they watch, the books they read etc. Everyone is impressionable, some less then others. I know that my opinions would not be changed by listening to a CD with atheistic or satanic views. But there are people out there that would only be bombarding themselves with a message that I find to be not true. Sure its a small part, and not doing much really, saves me a few bucks anyways, but you have to start somewhere. Is my decision morally correct? I think most certainly so.

I'm not even going to bother with the fact you won't buy cd's that are blatantly atheistic or satanic. As an individual, it's your choice to pick what you listen too. Whether it be Skrewdriver, or Gang Starr, in the end it's just up to the listener to decide.

But there's one thing in your statement I'm not 100% clear on, and the parts I do understand I don't agree with.

"But there are people out there that would only be bombarding themselves with a message that I find to be not true."

Are you saying that by not buying a certain CD you're limiting the number of people that can be influenced by the artists message? If so, how exactly does that work? I'll touch on the thing I don't agree with later, it's all throughout your response.

Then arises the question, would someone else be right if they refuse to support "Christian" themed bands based on the fact that they are spreading a message they disagree with? Well then comes deeper questions.

Refusing to purchase music because of it's Christian values is no different than what you're doing. It's simply supporting what you believe in.

With the rise of secularism, atheism, and agnostic theology there is also a rise in relativism and nihilism. The question arises...if you are athiestic or agnostic, are morals relative to you? If there isn't an outlining "good book" ,so to speak, of morals, then what defines right from wrong? With this mentality it would be you, and thus you come to the conclusion, if you can decide what is right and what is wrong (Post-Modernism), you are now a "god." This is something we call "New-Age theology."

True. However, your "good book" wasn't written by "god" himself. In reality, you're living by some men's morals, which have been revised and translated thousands of times. What exactly makes your morals any better than an Atheist's or a Satanist's?

But assuming that we all have some basic "morals" that we agree one, like love is good, hate is bad (which is apparant in libertarianism, striving for tolerance and equality among all mind-sets) [ on a side note, a libertarianism mind-set is a complete jokes with glaring impossible contradictions] we can come to the conclusion that with the non-supportive attitude of a message about love and sacrafice (Christian message) and the support of a message of the polar opposite, often with a hateful and selfish attitude, (atheism) then the advocate of anti-chrisitanity is indeed in the "wrong area" morally.

You bring up a good point here. But I can't help but wonder, have you even researched Satanism? I was on SB-C and there was some ****up goth kid talking about Satanism. Naturally, I did some reasearch so I could get right to the facts.

Contraty to popular belief, Satanism isn't about hate, and worshipping satan. It's about embrassing our natural instincts, and our freedom not as humans, but animals on this planet.

There are so many different kinds of satanism, so I'm sure there are some that focus on hate and selfishness. But look at it this way. Satanism is like smoking weed. There's the guys who smoke for fun, and know how to keep themselves from slipping, and then there's the guys who smoke too much and get stupid. The guys that keep themselves from slipping should represent it, not the **** ups. I try and apply that thinking to most things in life.

On an ending note, I know I said I'd touch on something in the very beginning of my post.

All throughout your post, I got the feeling that you believed you were superior to all who disagreed with you, and that you're right for believing what you do. It's fine to believe you're right, but you're not any better than anyone else. There's nothing wrong with having religion as somethign to live by, but if you make it into something you feel superior about, well then you'd be a part of the pot head ****ups I mentioned before ;)

SickMetal
05-21-2006, 07:49 PM
Say you know what else is awesome besides religious discussions?

Jeff Loomis!

I happened to be listening to Nevermore as I came in this thread. I love "This Godless Endeavor" and "Enemies of Reality" ain't shabby either. I've yet to pick up anything else, but I will and I'm sure those records are great too. I like Jeff's style, lots of cool licks and some killer arpeggio stuff. All played cleanly, which is the best part. Makes mighty good use of that 7 string methinks.

By the way, I got the impression that "This Godless Endeavor" (The song) was more about how there is no God in today's world of science and modern lifestyle, it's not a total athiest God-bashing trip.

apocalypse13
05-21-2006, 07:58 PM
True. However, your "good book" wasn't written by "god" himself. In reality, you're living by some men's morals, which have been revised and translated thousands of times. What exactly makes your morals any better than an Atheist's or a Satanist's?
Not always true.

People who stay traditional to the "original" bible will use the King James Version, which was written by the Apostle John (I think it was him) through the voice of God.

That's what most "traditional" Christians believe and what all churches I've been to teach out of.

Erc
05-21-2006, 08:13 PM
Are you saying that by not buying a certain CD you're limiting the number of people that can be influenced by the artists message? If so, how exactly does that work? I'll touch on the thing I don't agree with later, it's all throughout your response.

Well they arn't getting my money so they can't use it to promote themselves.

Refusing to purchase music because of it's Christian values is no different than what you're doing. It's simply supporting what you believe in.

I explained this later (why it is different morally) and I don't feel like repeating myself. Too tired...stupid exams...

True. However, your "good book" wasn't written by "god" himself. In reality, you're living by some men's morals, which have been revised and translated thousands of times. What exactly makes your morals any better than an Atheist's or a Satanist's?

God didn't hold the pen and write it himself. But He did ordain it. If I remember correctly, it was written by 42 different authors, over thousands of years, and had no coralition to make sure everything had the same theme. It did indeed have the same theme throughout the book. If thats not God ordained, then what is?

OT - Falling into sin and the need of salvation
NT - Salvation and the Church

which have been revised and translated thousands of times.

I can't remember the exact dates, but some perfectly preserved manuscripts of the OT was found, dating back to around 470ishbc. They were 99% accurate to what we have now. The mistakes being predominantly numerical and grammatical.

Very little meaning has been lost in translation. There are a verses where the emphasis of certain words or meaning is more prominant (like in the Greek version there is 2 types of love, Agape (I don't know these spellings, thing of them as just guides to pronounciate) and fayo) but the root meaning is still kept.

What exactly makes your morals any better than an Atheist's or a Satanist's?

Because its ordained by God!

You bring up a good point here. But I can't help but wonder, have you even researched Satanism?

Yes, lots.

All throughout your post, I got the feeling that you believed you were superior to all who disagreed with you, and that you're right for believing what you do. It's fine to believe you're right, but you're not any better than anyone else. There's nothing wrong with having religion as somethign to live by, but if you make it into something you feel superior about, well then you'd be a part of the pot head ****ups I mentioned before

A majority of what you say to people is not conveyed through the words, but rather the tone and body language. Unfourtantely I can't convey either of those through the internet. I speculate you percieve it this way because it was one big intricate intellelectual dance(Your perception is yours, but that doesn't mean it was the intended cause). In no way do I think I'm better then anybody here. If may even have a lower opinion of myself. Why? Because comparing myself to God's law...I've failed everything, there isn't one law of his that I have held. There is not one day I will go without sinning. There probably is not one HOUR that I won't go without sinning. (excluding time that you are sleeping...but then what about dreams eh?)

I do believe in jesus, and god, and i follow the teachings of him and of all major religions, that to love your brother and be a good person, etc etc. I pray a lot, almost every night, and although i dont have a strict religion, i feel that i am a good enough person usually, and that is enough for me. I am not an athiest, and im not sure what agnostic is, but im probably not one.


This is not faith. This is works. You think "you are a good enough person." You can never live up to God's law, everyone is hopelessly lost and dead in sin. Praying more won't get you to Heaven and falling every mainstream religion in hopes to getting to heaven won't get you there.

What Christianities faith is on is faith that Jesus Christ will forgive you of your sins. The whole point of Jesus coming to the earth was to die on the cross for our sins (because he lived a perfect life, as the Son of God.) and to teach us more about God. God loves you before you ever love him, if you ever love him. The only thing required of Christianity is to accept the work that Jesus did on the cross. Sure it gets more complicated, as you walk with God. Sanctification. Trying to strive to abide by God's law, but thats not what you are saved from. Its Jesus' work and his work alone.

apocalypse13
05-21-2006, 08:17 PM
Say you know what else is awesome besides religious discussions?

Jeff Loomis!

I happened to be listening to Nevermore as I came in this thread. I love "This Godless Endeavor" and "Enemies of Reality" ain't shabby either. I've yet to pick up anything else, but I will and I'm sure those records are great too. I like Jeff's style, lots of cool licks and some killer arpeggio stuff. All played cleanly, which is the best part. Makes mighty good use of that 7 string methinks.

By the way, I got the impression that "This Godless Endeavor" (The song) was more about how there is no God in today's world of science and modern lifestyle, it's not a total athiest God-bashing trip.
I think the next guitar I buy is a Shecter C-7 Hellraiser (Ie: Jeff's 7 Stringer) :)

What Christianities faith is on is faith that Jesus Christ will forgive you of your sins. The whole point of Jesus coming to the earth was to die on the cross for our sins (because he lived a perfect life, as the Son of God.) and to teach us more about God. God loves you before you ever love him, if you ever love him. The only thing required of Christianity is to accept the work that Jesus did on the cross. Sure it gets more complicated, as you walk with God. Sanctification. Trying to strive to abide by God's law, but thats not what you are saved from. Its Jesus' work and his work alone.
ftw

:golfclap:

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 08:24 PM
This is not faith. This is works. You think "you are a good enough person." You can never live up to God's law, everyone is hopelessly lost and dead in sin. Praying more won't get you to Heaven and falling every mainstream religion in hopes to getting to heaven won't get you there.

What Christianities faith is on is faith that Jesus Christ will forgive you of your sins. The whole point of Jesus coming to the earth was to die on the cross for our sins (because he lived a perfect life, as the Son of God.) and to teach us more about God. God loves you before you ever love him, if you ever love him. The only thing required of Christianity is to accept the work that Jesus did on the cross. Sure it gets more complicated, as you walk with God. Sanctification. Trying to strive to abide by God's law, but thats not what you are saved from. Its Jesus' work and his work alone.

i do accept that jesus died on the cross, i dont neccesarily keep it in my mind 24/7, but i do believe it happened, in side me, somehow. I do believe i am a good enough person, i also believe i am a terrible person, compared to god, jesus, or any good men who have lived, but i try as hard as i can, and i think god would rather have a person who tries his best to treet others right then one who goes to church every single day but has something against gays and other religions. you believe the opposite, neither of us can change that, but dont say i dont have faith, i have faith, dont say im not a good person, for at least i try to be,
i am a good enough person, for me, to be happy with myself, i am not good enough for god, noone is, but i try, and when i **** up, i always feel bad about it and ask him for forgiveness, is that not what he wanted?

Falling every mainstream religion, what?

You also seem to contradict yourself, if god loves you before you ever love him, if you ever love him, then does he not love me, for i love him, and accept him, and respect him, and pray to him, and believe in him?

I know you are saying the only way to heaven is through jesus christ, thats you're belief, sure. I believe that jesus died to help us realize the error of our ways, to get us to live better. By accepting jesus, you accept his teachings, it says so ain the bible, by accepting his teachings, you live a good life, by gods law, is that not what gets you into heaven? Maybe accepting jesus simply means more living by his code, for it says in the bible that to accept that jesus died on the cross for our sins, we accept his way of life, one of no sin.

Just my thoughts, either way, thank you so much for stating you're opinions without bias or ignorance for the most part.

btw, if i come across as ignorant or arrogent in any way, i apologize, im not trying to, and im not trying to get you to change your views, i'm just discussing my beliefs.

apocalypse13
05-21-2006, 08:34 PM
^From what you said there, it sounds like you're a Christian, but you weren't clear before in your first post.

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 08:48 PM
Well im not exactly christian, i just have a lot of christian ideals.

Thats bull**** i know, but for now, i'm not one particular religion, and i dont hate any other religions, i keep my mind open and believe what i find to be true, or right, and dont slight others for what they want.

Besides, music is music, i wouldnt support any band that proposed violence against christians, but if a band doesnt believe christ is our savior, its not like that makes them bad people.

Anyways, jeff loomis is crazy, i agree that the psalm of lydia is awesome, and i havent heard much from nevermore, but yeah.

What do you guys think it would be like if he put out a solo cd?

Erc
05-21-2006, 08:54 PM
do believe in jesus, and god, and i follow the teachings of him and of all major religions,

I meant to put following, typo. It is impossible to follow Jesus and to follow "all major religions." Christianity is the oppositve of the other religions.

I do believe i am a good enough person

This is what you must get out of your head! In no way is any living man a good person!

but i try as hard as i can, and i think god would rather have a person who tries his best to treet others right then one who goes to church every single day but has something against gays and other religions. you believe the opposite, neither of us can change that,

My friend! It seems as though you haven't read anything I have posted!! I told you, it is a faith based religion, it has NOTHING to do with how many times you pray, how many days you go to church, how much you tithe. God doesn't have a record book of sins making down whenever you or I sin yet another time. I have nothing against people of other religions, I have plenty of friends of different religions, a Hindu one and a Jewish one come to mind first. I have nothing aganist gays. There is only one way to get to Heaven and to God and that is through Jesus. My friends of different religions, are indeed wrong. But this doesn't mean I hate them, most certainly not!

You also seem to contradict yourself, if god loves you before you ever love him, if you ever love him, then does he not love me, for i love him, and accept him, and respect him, and pray to him, and believe in him? That statement was not directed to specifically to you, but to everyone who reads it. God will love you no matter what, whether you love him back or not. But he will hate your sin and he will judge it.

Maybe accepting jesus simply means more living by his code, for it says in the bible that to accept that jesus died on the cross for our sins, we accept his way of life, one of no sin.

Accepting and having faith in Jesus has is believing and accepting the work he did on the cross. The payment for your sin. Yes you try to follow his teachings and strive to be like him but as stated before, this is not the basis of your salvation!!

The basis of your salvation is on what Jesus Christ did on the cross and the cross alone!!

i am a good enough person, for me, to be happy with myself, i am not good enough for god, noone is, but i try, and when i **** up, i always feel bad about it and ask him for forgiveness, is that not what he wanted?

yes, thats what he wants. Repentance.

I know you are saying the only way to heaven is through jesus christ, thats you're belief, sure. I believe that jesus died to help us realize the error of our ways, to get us to live better. By accepting jesus, you accept his teachings, it says so ain the bible, by accepting his teachings, you live a good life, by gods law, is that not what gets you into heaven?

Repetition is the mother of all learning...

No thats not how you get to heaven. Its the acceptance of his work and payment, not yours! This is what I'm talking about, it is not about work!!!

I know you are saying the only way to heaven is through jesus christ, thats you're belief, sure.
This (and the sentence afterwards) implies that you do not believe this. As said by Jesus (and posted in this thread previously)

Jesus replied "I am the way the truth and the life. No one gets to the father except through me."

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 08:56 PM
alright, well i guess im christian or whatever then, strictly speaking by belief, as i DO believe jesus died on the cross for my sins. I just think it might be more important, or at least just as important, to live a good life.

Accepting jesus while still living a bad life wont get you into heaven, right?

Erc
05-21-2006, 09:20 PM
Wrong.

There will be people in heaven that we will never have thought to be in there.

Phillipians 1:6
being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

If you truly and sincerly accept Jesus sole work on the cross, what he did to redeem you, then no matter what you do, no matter how horrible a life you live, you will still be his.

Christianity is a faith based religion, there is no works involved. An illustration that I have heard commonly (this is the presbyterian/calvanistic version if you're curious.) is that you are in the water, drowned, face down dead in your sin. Jesus comes down turns you over and breathes life back into you and back up to the top.

You were once dead in your sin, but he came down and saved you. This is a very calvanistic version, based on the doctrine of pre-destination. (If you want to talk about that, and probalby any further conversation, PM me and if my PM isn't acting retarded, I'll respond)

Romans 3:20-22

20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

The Bible explains it much better then I =)

EDIT -->

Another good verse that explains it...

Ephesians 2:8-10

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

PooKoo
05-21-2006, 09:23 PM
yes but if someone lived a terrible life, then they dont really accept jesus, do they?

thats the only reason im not into christianity, i believe in jesus, i love jesus, i accept him, i try to be a good person, i just think you have to live a good life as well as accept him.

Erc
05-21-2006, 09:32 PM
See my edit, and your observation is one that is observed further in the book of James.

James 2:18
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

He further elaborates, I reccomend you grab a bible and look it up. Good works is an evidance of salvation and faith, but it is not what brings you salvation and faith. Which is why you can indeed live a bad life (continuing in your sin, not repenting) but still be saved. Fact of the matter is that all of us will struggle with sin till the rest of our lives. Some of us may never fully repent. Many of will never fully repent. But we are still saved by grace.

Remember this.

Forgiveness comes before repentance. I recommend you pick up a book called "The Ragamuffin Gospel", it is very deep and goes into great depth as to what it really is to be "saved by grace."

SGRocker0791
05-21-2006, 09:33 PM
*cought*Jeff Loomis*cough*

Can we take this conversation to the Pit and get back to talking about Jeff Loomis?

haveaniceday233
05-21-2006, 09:33 PM
BADASS jeff loomis is awesome

SGRocker0791
05-21-2006, 09:46 PM
BADASS jeff loomis is awesome

\m/ >< \m/

Erc
05-21-2006, 10:11 PM
Loomis has nifty hair, not the coolest ever...but its a good long length.

YYZ
05-21-2006, 11:04 PM
I think the next guitar I buy is a Shecter C-7 Hellraiser (Ie: Jeff's 7 Stringer) :)


ftw

:golfclap:

Schecter is coming out with a Jeff Loomis signature model sometime soon.

Resiliance
05-22-2006, 02:26 AM
All this christian **** disgusts me.

Go feel superior about yourselves somewhere else.

The base of religion is fear and ignorance.

I have morals, I live my life the best I can, and guess what? I don't need no phony Jesus/God bloke telling me what to do.

Master Of Shred
05-22-2006, 05:08 AM
All this christian **** disgusts me.

Go feel superior about yourselves somewhere else.

The base of religion is fear and ignorance.

I have morals, I live my life the best I can, and guess what? I don't need no phony Jesus/God bloke telling me what to do.

Mmm I don't believe in god/jesus/who ever neither, but I respect the people who do, even though I disagree with them, they respect me for my opinion as well.

PooKoo
05-22-2006, 06:46 AM
I don't feel superior to anyone, dont worry.

exept mos, cause we all know i can pwn him at guitar . :cool:

Master Of Shred
05-22-2006, 06:59 AM
Wow, I'm having a bad day, first you pwn me at getting 3000 posts, and now you're better at guitar as well.

:cry:

Jakeylee111
05-22-2006, 08:14 AM
I've just read through this thread and its quite useful seeing i have an RE exam on Wednesday.

Matt_Malmsteen
05-22-2006, 08:26 AM
Aren't RE exams more about explaining your beliefs rather than just stating random beliefs and that's it?

Jakeylee111
05-22-2006, 11:12 AM
Aren't RE exams more about explaining your beliefs rather than just stating random beliefs and that's it?
They say that but what they really want is for you to say you believe in God.

Anyway Jeff Loomis rules, but the start of The Psalm of Lydia solo was Steve Smyth so i have the greatest respect for him.

Davidian
05-22-2006, 11:37 AM
Just to warn erc dont listin to my music ;)

On jeff loomis, I like him but i just cant really place him in a style really. Awesome skills though.

PooKoo
05-22-2006, 02:44 PM
Wow, I'm having a bad day, first you pwn me at getting 3000 posts, and now you're better at guitar as well.

:cry:

Oh im not getting better, you're just terrible.

...:p:

YYZ
05-22-2006, 04:46 PM
You know, one could even say that by you guys continuosly bumping this thread with your religion talk that you are actually bringing more attention to Jeff Loomis/Nevermore and promoting them. Even though your arguing against what they stand for, how many people are actually going to read through all of it?

apocalypse13
05-22-2006, 05:29 PM
Meh, I like him anyway.

:p:

Glad to hear of the new sig model. :cool:

YYZ
05-22-2006, 11:16 PM
Yea, I only read about it on his myspace. I have no details at all. I'll google it, it's probably to early to find anything though.

Edit: Nothing

Scorzerci
05-23-2006, 02:19 PM
Even though your arguing against what they stand for, how many people are actually going to read through all of it?
I did....

PooKoo
05-23-2006, 02:43 PM
ah well, im so glad we could discuss rather then argue, without anyone hating anyone over it.

apocalypse13
05-23-2006, 02:44 PM
:cheers:

PooKoo
05-23-2006, 02:45 PM
:cheers:

Jakeylee111
05-24-2006, 07:22 AM
I did....
So did i..... :sad:
But i did get an A*** for my R.E exam. :D

Night_Lights
05-27-2006, 02:02 AM
I actually el oh eled on that one =)

And to be honest, I've never actually heard Psalm of Lydia =\

Mainly because I never bought "The Godless Endeavor" for what is really a religious reason. (If you are curious why, its because I try not to support albums/artists that are so balatant about its atheism)

This Godless Endeavor isnt really about atheism more like trying to get people to "agree to disagree"

Jakeylee111
05-27-2006, 12:12 PM
I know the Engines of Hate solo. Now i've just got to do it in time.... :sad: