The First REAL "shredder"


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mr_clapton
06-12-2006, 05:33 AM
I hate using the term shredder but you guys get the idea, I got the idea for this thread when I was reading an interview with Satch from an OLD guitar magazine, how old you may wonder lets just say he had hair when this was done. They were discussing who was the first shredders and such of coarse you could all say paginini(sp)? but who was the first on guitar to really start ripping it up - well might I add not just people who can't play the blues :D

have fun :liplick:

Evil_Empire24-7
06-12-2006, 05:59 AM
John McLaughlin or Al Di Meola

flamencogod
06-12-2006, 06:21 AM
propably some gypsy guy, nobody can awnser this question

Freepower
06-12-2006, 06:38 AM
Er, paganini. He played guitar, foo'.

Though really, we tend to imitate his violin playing when we do modern shred, not his guitar playing.

pavan
06-12-2006, 06:41 AM
First Shredder was Horace Pendlebury-Davenport

Anyone heard of him'?

Stratwizard
06-12-2006, 07:02 AM
How about good ol' Django?

TheUltimateSin
06-12-2006, 11:41 AM
http://www.geocities.com/kaligargoyle/shredder.jpg


^------First shredder ever

Prophet of Page
06-12-2006, 11:53 AM
Uli Jon Roth maybe?

SnowballofDoom
06-12-2006, 11:58 AM
I've heard people say Blackmore, Roth, and VH... but I really don't know. Django maybe?

eXor
06-12-2006, 12:03 PM
Yngwie Malmsteen was the first

Resiliance
06-12-2006, 12:03 PM
Some guy rippin' those vocal chords B.C.

Stratwizard
06-12-2006, 12:34 PM
How about a caveman banging his drum? He could've been a shredder too.

Resiliance
06-12-2006, 12:46 PM
My point exactly.

waylay00
06-12-2006, 01:44 PM
As far as true electric "shred", it'd probably one of the jazz fusion virtuosos (Al Di Meola, Shawn Lane, Allan Holdsworth, John McLaughlin, etc)

Resiliance
06-12-2006, 01:45 PM
^I beg to differ.

Kenny Burrell and the like played electric too, you know.

PooKoo
06-12-2006, 02:57 PM
Well djangos probably the earlier I personally have heard people playing like that on guitar, but i'm sure theres plenty of others.

Resiliance
06-12-2006, 03:01 PM
Notice the electric.

PooKoo
06-12-2006, 03:04 PM
well you guys were all talking about cavemen....

apocalypse13
06-12-2006, 04:28 PM
I think the first that played our modern "shred" would be Yngwie. People say he is unoriginal, he was the original! His biggest influences were Blackmore and Hendrix, as well as classical artists. None of them played like him. So IMO, he was the original "modern" shredder.

I haven't heard all the other guys you guys have mentioned btw.

waylay00
06-12-2006, 05:03 PM
^No offense, but there were tons of electric shedders before Yngwie. Di Meola, Holdsworth, McLaughlin, etc and tons of others I probably don't even know about.

Resiliance
06-12-2006, 05:07 PM
*mumbles* Kenny Burrell... *mumbles*

apocalypse13
06-12-2006, 05:13 PM
^No offense, but there were tons of electric shedders before Yngwie. Di Meola, Holdsworth, McLaughlin, etc and tons of others I probably don't even know about.
Yeah, but the point I was making was that Yngwie was very original. He took no influence from the "shredders" before him.

SnowballofDoom
06-12-2006, 05:14 PM
Yeah, but the point I was making was that Yngwie was very original. He took no influence from the "shredders" before him.

*ahem*

Blackmore.

Doubleday
06-12-2006, 06:45 PM
I think Eddie Van Halen was the first real shredder type guitarist. While Blackmore did play fast, Eddie developed the actual shred techniques, like tapping, legato licks, tremolo picking, crazy string skips, etc.

Some guys - like Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix - used a few of those techniques, but nobody acutally put them all together until Eddie.

apocalypse13
06-12-2006, 07:38 PM
*ahem*

Blackmore.
Hmmm, maybe...

He is a very talented guitarist.

waylay00
06-12-2006, 08:05 PM
I think Eddie Van Halen was the first real shredder type guitarist. While Blackmore did play fast, Eddie developed the actual shred techniques, like tapping, legato licks, tremolo picking, crazy string skips, etc.

Some guys - like Jimmy Page and Jimi Hendrix - used a few of those techniques, but nobody acutally put them all together until Eddie.


Once again, listen to people like Shawn Lane, Allan Holdsworth, Di Meola, Mclaughlin, and Kenny Burrell (ok Resiliance...). These guys were doing that stuff all before EVH or Yngwie

Matt_Malmsteen
06-12-2006, 10:00 PM
My vote is for them weird musicians in like the 15th century who played weird shaped instruments and stuff.

Although on an electric guitar.....probably some jazz players....I can't think of the oldest so I can't name them.

AngilasGuy
06-13-2006, 03:02 AM
*ahem*

Blackmore.

"I don't think my classical influence came from Ritchie... What Ritchie did to me was more like uuhh.. yaknow uh, influenced me in different ways yaknow like uh... like being a really mean guy I dunno haha. Well its just he was a big impact on me like as a person I guess, moreso that than anything else and the music I do is just from classical music, but the hard edge is definitely my influence from Deep Purple yaknow, I've always wanted to have a hard edge and everything"

Blame Ritchie for Yngwie being a jerk, :p.
I love the interviews he does with YoungGuitar magazine videos, that was a question about Ritchie's influence and I had to share.

~1954~
06-13-2006, 06:36 AM
I think a lot of shredders became famous in the late 70s- Malmsteen, Rhoads, EVH, etc. but that must mean that they were were playing shred long before that, before they became famous, taking influence from jazz fusion players during the 70's (Di Meola, McLaughlin, Holdsworth) as well as rock guitarists (Blackmore, Hendrix etc).
But i think Malmsteen was the first to really make a solo career purely out of shred- in the form of Neo- Classical rock.

Prophet of Page
06-13-2006, 01:19 PM
Once again, listen to people like Shawn Lane, Allan Holdsworth, Di Meola, Mclaughlin, and Kenny Burrell (ok Resiliance...). These guys were doing that stuff all before EVH or Yngwie


Shawn Lane was fifteen when Van Halen became big. I'm guessing VH is at it longer than him.

waylay00
06-13-2006, 01:44 PM
Shawn Lane was fifteen when Van Halen became big. I'm guessing VH is at it longer than him.

But Shawn was all ready the fastest guitar player player in the world by the time he was thirteen. ;)

Check out videos of him with Black Oak Arkansas.

Even so, not counting Shawn, guys like Al Di Meola and Holdsworth were "shredding" long before EVH...

Prophet of Page
06-13-2006, 02:44 PM
But Shawn was all ready the fastest guitar player player in the world by the time he was thirteen. ;)

Bull****.

AngilasGuy
06-13-2006, 03:28 PM
Bull****.

Well Yngwie was shredding when he was 11, what year is that?

Prophet of Page
06-13-2006, 03:40 PM
I'm not saying that Shawn wasn't shredding at age fifteen, I'm saying he certainly wasn't the fastest guitarist in the world at age thirteen.

Can we all just get used to the idea that it makes no difference who did what first?

TheUltimateSin
06-13-2006, 03:51 PM
Can we all just get used to the idea that it makes no difference who did what first?

Why do you think I never took the thread seriously in the first place by posting what I did on page one :p:

Freepower
06-13-2006, 03:55 PM
Bull****.

Agreed.

The BOA vids i think are 15/16. :)

And besides, he's nowhere near as fast as reached at that point.

Doubleday
06-13-2006, 04:04 PM
So are we talking first recorded shredder, or first shredder period?

Prophet of Page
06-13-2006, 04:37 PM
So are we talking first recorded shredder, or first shredder period?

I'm guessing the debate is about the first recorded electric guitar shredder.

paddyo
06-13-2006, 04:59 PM
Does anyone have solid facts here? I'm not neccessarily disagreeing with the posts of this thread,but so far all it has been is just "I think it was so and so" etc..

Resiliance
06-13-2006, 05:05 PM
Well, everything I said has been solid fact... Ofcourse, I didn't say much :p:

TheUltimateSin
06-13-2006, 06:55 PM
Isn't everything you say a fact? :p:

waylay00
06-13-2006, 08:47 PM
Agreed.

The BOA vids i think are 15/16. :)

And besides, he's nowhere near as fast as reached at that point.

I beg to differ. My teacher, who knew Shawn very well and was his tech for eight years, showed me an unreleased DVD that Shawn's family wants to begin selling soon. It has footage from him playing with Black Oak Arkansas just before he turned 14 years old, and trust me, he was as fast as he ever was. If you can show me a shredder at that time period who was faster than him, I would love to agree, but at this point, I'm afraid I cannot.

I'll ask my teacher if I can have a copy of the DVD, and then I can upload some footage. (This DVD has footage of him never seen before). However, I don't know if the Lane family wants to release this DVD yet, so obtaining a copy might be difficult.

apocalypse13
06-13-2006, 10:57 PM
***Freepower Impersonation***
















*orgasm*


:p:

TheUltimateSin
06-13-2006, 11:23 PM
^ :haha

Beckerism
06-14-2006, 12:17 AM
I beg to differ. My teacher, who knew Shawn very well and was his tech for eight years, showed me an unreleased DVD that Shawn's family wants to begin selling soon. It has footage from him playing with Black Oak Arkansas just before he turned 14 years old, and trust me, he was as fast as he ever was. If you can show me a shredder at that time period who was faster than him, I would love to agree, but at this point, I'm afraid I cannot.

I'll ask my teacher if I can have a copy of the DVD, and then I can upload some footage. (This DVD has footage of him never seen before). However, I don't know if the Lane family wants to release this DVD yet, so obtaining a copy might be difficult.

This video, or atleast a video with Shawn/Black Oak Arkansas is on youtube.

Edit: One says 16 one says 17. Are you sure at 14?

waylay00
06-14-2006, 12:21 AM
I am completely aware that there are some videos of Shawn on YouTube. These videos of Shawn that I am referring to, however, are UNRELEASED. They are completely different from the ones on YouTube or Google Video. They were previously only available to members of his family. But his family, who has made a DVD, gave that DVD to my teacher, who hapened to be Shawn's tech for eight years.

This DVD is a compilation of all footage of Shawn, from home videos, to never-before-seen BOA footage, to the rare Andy Timmons/ Satch / Vai/ Gilbert / Lane jam at the Winter NAMM 1993, along with many more videos (I do believe that this was posted in the Technique Thread though).

Stratwizard
06-14-2006, 03:58 AM
Allan Holdsworth recorded several tracks (i.e the infamous Fred) with Tony Williams Lifetime in 1975.

Freepower
06-14-2006, 04:26 AM
*orgasm*


:p:

Hey, Shawn Lane humps my camel, is there anything wrong with that? :p:

Well, i suppose if he was as fast at 13...but i'd doubt it, ridiculous fast, sure, but SHAWN fast?

And lets bear in mind that Holdsworth was Shawn's inspiration to stop just playing blues licks, so he definately predates. :)

Still, DVD - *orgasm*

Stratwizard
06-14-2006, 05:05 AM
Ok, Allan has also played on several albums before '75, starting from '69 with Igginbottom on the album "Wrench". McLaughiln made also his first record "Extrapolation" on that year.

Resiliance
06-14-2006, 07:01 AM
Isn't everything you say a fact? :p:

No no, you confused fact with law.

:haha

TheUltimateSin
06-14-2006, 09:15 AM
:haha

Freepower
06-14-2006, 09:32 AM
:haha

Vindicate
06-14-2006, 12:07 PM
I vote Jesus.

waylay00
06-14-2006, 12:33 PM
Hey, Shawn Lane humps my camel, is there anything wrong with that? :p:

Well, i suppose if he was as fast at 13...but i'd doubt it, ridiculous fast, sure, but SHAWN fast?

And lets bear in mind that Holdsworth was Shawn's inspiration to stop just playing blues licks, so he definately predates. :)

Still, DVD - *orgasm*

Well, the video showed 13 year-old Shawn, and he was actually doing some tapping, which is rare of him, but he was also doing his amazingly fast scalar runs, defintely on the speed level of Holdsworth.

Like I said, I'll try to get a copy of the DVD so I can post some of these videos up (if his family doesn't care).

Prophet of Page
06-14-2006, 12:44 PM
Well, the video showed 13 year-old Shawn, and he was actually doing some tapping, which is rare of him, but he was also doing his amazingly fast scalar runs, defintely on the speed level of Holdsworth.

Like I said, I'll try to get a copy of the DVD so I can post some of these videos up (if his family doesn't care).


How much Holdsworth have you heard? I honestly think Holdsworth is faster than Lane EVER was.

waylay00
06-14-2006, 01:37 PM
I've seen Holdsworth in person...And I've seen Lane probably around seventy five times in person, ever since I was born...

And trust me, Lane is much faster than Holdsworth will ever be.

I could say the same for you: "How much Lane have you heard?"

Prophet of Page
06-14-2006, 01:39 PM
I've seen Holdsworth in person...And I've seen Lane probably around seventy five times in person, ever since I was born...

And trust me, Lane is much faster than Holdsworth will ever be.

I could say the same for you: "How much Lane have you heard?"


Plenty.

Stratwizard
06-14-2006, 01:48 PM
It doesn't matter. Holdsworth was still BEFORE Shawn.

waylay00
06-14-2006, 02:25 PM
That's defintely true, as Holdsworth was before Shawn. However, we are debating over whether or not Shawn is faster than Allan.

But yeah, Allan was before Shawn, as was Al Di Meola and many others.

Plenty.


Well I say the same about Holdsworth. I've heard plenty, including his U.K. material to his solo stuff, but I still believe that Shawn is overall a faster guitarist.

But at this point, it doesn't matter. We are straying from the topic here.

perpetual shred
06-15-2006, 08:30 AM
i don't think holdworth or lane a shredders, theyre just really good fusion/jazz guitarists.yeah theyr'e capable of shredding(better than most famous shredders) but theyr'e not shredders. id say the fist popular modern shredder was van halen. he sort of created the shred tone as well, hes got an unbelieveble tone for what time he was playing it. after that id say yngwie was the first virtuoso shredder.
if any of you guys have ever heard birth of the sun by malmsteen, from when he was 17. thats 1979 and he was as incredible as he was in his first album.

Prophet of Page
06-15-2006, 08:55 AM
i don't think holdworth or lane a shredders, theyre just really good fusion/jazz guitarists.yeah theyr'e capable of shredding(better than most famous shredders) but theyr'e not shredders. id say the fist popular modern shredder was van halen. he sort of created the shred tone as well, hes got an unbelieveble tone for what time he was playing it. after that id say yngwie was the first virtuoso shredder.
if any of you guys have ever heard birth of the sun by malmsteen, from when he was 17. thats 1979 and he was as incredible as he was in his first album.


Course they are.

Resiliance
06-15-2006, 09:04 AM
^Yeah, definitely...

Stratwizard
06-15-2006, 09:14 AM
I'd say they're jazz/fusion shredders. Allthough, almost any jazz/fusion guitarist is a shredder, so... :p:

Resiliance
06-15-2006, 09:30 AM
^So? :)

waylay00
06-15-2006, 01:22 PM
i don't think holdworth or lane a shredders, theyre just really good fusion/jazz guitarists

:eek:

Scorzerci
06-15-2006, 01:45 PM
I don't really see what's so great about Holdsworth... I have the albums IOU, Metal Fatigue and Truth in shredding and I haven't really heard anything that really caught my attention so could anyone please tell me some songs that I should listen to?

Prophet of Page
06-15-2006, 01:50 PM
I don't really see what's so great about Holdsworth... I have the albums IOU, Metal Fatigue and Truth in shredding and I haven't really heard anything that really caught my attention so could anyone please tell me some songs that I should listen to?

If you just plain don't like the music that is fine. But if you're going to ask about the technique ivolved, just try playing the solo to Devil Take the Hindmost. I'd very much doubt that ANYBODY on here could.

Btw, if you'd like another album in a while, I've ordered Road Games.

Resiliance
06-15-2006, 02:02 PM
I don't really see what's so great about Holdsworth... I have the albums IOU, Metal Fatigue and Truth in shredding and I haven't really heard anything that really caught my attention so could anyone please tell me some songs that I should listen to?

It's an acquired taste... It's outside playing.

Freepower
06-15-2006, 04:10 PM
^ pah, that "outside" nonsense.

Holdsworth's is lovely though. :)

Midnight 260
06-15-2006, 05:14 PM
That's defintely true, as Holdsworth was before Shawn. However, we are debating over whether or not Shawn is faster than Allan.



but the topic was "First real shredder" i dont think anybody really knows...

Neon Knight
06-15-2006, 05:39 PM
McLaughlin, Uli and Blackmore

Freepower
06-15-2006, 06:04 PM
Well, in the original post, Paganini was disqualified for not playing guitar (electric wasnt specified) - whereas actually, paggy did play geetar, so he was first. ;)

PooKoo
06-15-2006, 06:46 PM
But did he shred on guitar?

(sorry if thats a noob question)

also, on the topic of holdsworth, and fusion in general, it took me a while, but overnight i fell in love with it, it just zones me out, and it's become one of my favorite styles of music, and if anyone wuold like to share some holdsworth/howe/whoever cds, all i have is

all the lane stuff almost
truth in shredding
and introspection.

pm me! ill trade ya.

(resi if this is bad, ill edit it out, sorry)

Freepower
06-15-2006, 06:50 PM
^ yes, but we tend to imitate more the violin playing than his guitar playing. :)

And holdsworth and that lot are generally influenced by horn and sax players, so they have a completely different idiom again...

PooKoo
06-15-2006, 07:00 PM
yeah, michael angelo was too actually, which is kinda funny even.

never knew paggy shrode on guitar too, knux to him then.

Freepower
06-15-2006, 07:06 PM
^ his guitar stuff is really crap though. :p: No emotion whatsoever.

And MAB? I suppose he had to play guitar because its damn near impossible to play 4 saxes at once. :p:

BassSurfer
06-15-2006, 07:07 PM
Yngwie Malmsteen was the first



no he wasent dude...

Prophet of Page
06-16-2006, 06:34 AM
But did he shred on guitar?

(sorry if thats a noob question)

also, on the topic of holdsworth, and fusion in general, it took me a while, but overnight i fell in love with it, it just zones me out, and it's become one of my favorite styles of music, and if anyone wuold like to share some holdsworth/howe/whoever cds, all i have is

all the lane stuff almost
truth in shredding
and introspection.

pm me! ill trade ya.

(resi if this is bad, ill edit it out, sorry)

I'll send ya some soon. After my exams are over.

Prophet of Page
06-16-2006, 06:35 AM
Meh, Paganini's guitar stuff isn't extremely shreddy.

paddyo
06-16-2006, 09:24 AM
I'll send ya some soon. After my exams are over.
I know this sounds really cheeky and I bet the majority of the stuff I have you've already got,but could you send me some of that also? I'd be extremely grateful if you could but if not its cool:)

Prophet of Page
06-16-2006, 09:25 AM
I know this sounds really cheeky and I bet the majority of the stuff I have you've already got,but could you send me some of that also? I'd be extremely grateful if you could but if not its cool:)


No worries. I'll send ya it alright.

paddyo
06-16-2006, 09:29 AM
Thanks a lot!:D Cant wait!