it's that time again...


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Axegrinder#9
07-07-2006, 12:20 PM
so I debated at length as to where to put this thread, and then finally decided to put it here, so you guys could all throw in your pearls (or gobstones) of wisdom...

it's been close to a year and a half that I've used the Boss GT-6. It is a really cool multi-FX unit and I'm sure there's a lot more to tweak in there, but I just can't be bothered anymore... everytime I play live, I find a marked difference in tone... and it is usually detrimental in effect... so I've decided to do away with multi-FX units and go in for single units and build up my own pedal-board. I spent the last two days contemplating what to buy and finally came up with this configuration which I doubt is guna change:

Dunlop Crybaby (wah) -> Ibanez TS808 Reissue (OD/Booster) -> no idea what to put in here -> Rocktron Big Crush (Compressor) -> Boss GE7 (EQ) -> Boss DD6 (Delay) -> Noise Gate - > a bare bones solid state amp

this is kinda the tentative order in which I'm thinking of putting 'em in. Now obviously you guys realize that I'm missing a Distortion unit. I've pulled out a few hairs outta my head trying to figure out what to go for... and I still have no ****ing clue...

I had thought of purchasing the Marshall ShredMaster, but I hear it's been discontinued. and for every other pedal that I've looked into, there always seems to be some **** up or the other... I thought about the Line6 Uber Metal, but then it seems a lil' too narrow for my sonic tastes... I'm really at a loss as to what to get... most of you guys here know the sort of sound that I'm going for and what kind of tonality I'm thinking about...

any help would be appreciated...

PS: Resi, I'd appreciate if ya let this topic stay here as opposed to moving it to the Guitar Gear thread where it'd be buried within a day..

peace

seljer
07-07-2006, 12:24 PM
Why a solid state amp? the Tubescreamer really shines when you're pushing a tube amp with it.

Also, I've heard some good thigns about other equalizers compared to the Boss one (about it being particulary noisy), even the basic Danelectro one being better.

Resiliance
07-07-2006, 12:33 PM
Yeah, I'd like to ask why the solidstate too... The tubescreamer is useless with it.

SuburbanCowboy
07-07-2006, 02:48 PM
^^ Same. Everything looked good until I read that.

And if you had an amp with good overdrive, you really shouldnt need a distortion pedal, right? I would think that the TubeScreamer + amp drive would be enough to get into high-gain territory.

Mascot
07-07-2006, 02:50 PM
I'll jsut go through what you want to get. . .

Dunlop Crybaby - unless you intend to buy the rackmount version of this, which is hundereds of dollars, stay away from Dunlop. You're much better off with something like a Budda. The Crybaby has terrible sweep, tone, no bypass, etc. It just stinks.

Ibanez TS808 - These are meant for pushing tube amps, not solid state amps. If you want something like a volume boost for solos or something, look elsewhere.

No Idea - Not even a suggestion? How about a reverb/chorus?

Boss GE7 - Maybe look into a DanElectro Fish'n'Chips. The Boss pedals are supposedly really noisy.

Boss DD6 - Everyone seems to like it, although I haven't tried it myself. Heard great things about the Line 6 DL4, but it doesn't have enough patches, I heard, so meh.

Noise Gate - ISP Decimator is probably the best out there, so look into that. I can't recall how much they run for, but it's something in the $150 range.

SS amp - Why not tube?

Axegrinder#9
07-07-2006, 11:47 PM
well the thing is I do have a solid state amp and at the moment don't have enough cash to go for a tube amp. I was thinking about using the TS808 as an OD/Booster like I mentioned... and I think I will be stuck with the amp for sometime... that's why I was thinking about purchasing a distortion pedal to hook up after the TS808...

on that note, will purchasing the TS808 be completely redundant, since I don't have a tube amp?

waylay00
07-08-2006, 12:21 AM
My advice:

Don't get any pedals yet until you have gotten a decent tube amp. By the time you spend all the money on those effects, you can get a really good used tube amp.

Axegrinder#9
07-08-2006, 12:27 AM
what is the connection between tube amps and analog single units? I mean I know how say an OD/DS pedal before a tube amp could push it into overdrive and really give a sweet sound and such, but I mean why would a solid state amp with a OD hooked upto a DS not serve the same purpose?

Mascot
07-08-2006, 01:38 AM
You mean you already have a SS amp? Don't waste your money on a bunch of effects, if your core tone is gonna suck. Go for a decent tube amp.

Axegrinder#9
07-08-2006, 05:27 AM
well I already own a SS amp, a simple bare bones one at that purchased for around $125 - I've been using my Boss GT6 over the past year in conjunction with it... how crucial is it for me to have a tube amp thus. that is why I planned on having a booster/OD + Distortion combo

SuburbanCowboy
07-08-2006, 01:13 PM
what is the connection between tube amps and analog single units? I mean I know how say an OD/DS pedal before a tube amp could push it into overdrive and really give a sweet sound and such, but I mean why would a solid state amp with a OD hooked upto a DS not serve the same purpose?


Because a solid state amp is pretty much a speaker with an input jack.

Sound tubes getting warm (and hot) is what creates that awesome tone. The more you push the tubes to the limit, the better the sound that comes out. With a solid state, there is a set limit to how much drive the amp can handle (and its usually not a lot.). Beyond that point the amp will start to crackle, fart, and basically sound like sh*t.

Some solid state amps sound good on very low volume settings. But what good is that?

waylay00
07-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Like I said, by the time you spend all that money on those effects, you can get a nice tube amp. Once you've played through a tube amp cranked up, you never go back.

Axegrinder#9
07-08-2006, 03:40 PM
With a solid state, there is a set limit to how much drive the amp can handle (and its usually not a lot.). Beyond that point the amp will start to crackle, fart, and basically sound like sh*t.

Some solid state amps sound good on very low volume settings. But what good is that?

goddammit you are right. I'm thinking I might still go ahead with the pedal board, and then wait a bit for getting hold of a tube amp once I can get the money

Night_Lights
07-08-2006, 09:29 PM
Like I said, by the time you spend all that money on those effects, you can get a nice tube amp. Once you've played through a tube amp cranked up, you never go back.


good advice here.

Sweetbabyjezuz
07-08-2006, 11:25 PM
goddammit you are right. I'm thinking I might still go ahead with the pedal board, and then wait a bit for getting hold of a tube amp once I can get the money

Do it the otherway around.

Buy a tube amp, and then wait and save for a pedalboard.

Axegrinder#9
07-09-2006, 12:51 AM
see I would do that, the only thing is, I be raising about $700-750 bucks and if I went all out on buying a tube amp with that, after having played with effects for the last 3 odd years, I'd damn near feel naked if I played without 'em.

are there perhaps any inexpensive solid state amps which are known to be more compatible with the sorta pedal board that I tentatively outlined?

waylay00
07-09-2006, 12:58 AM
You don't have to spend $700 for a tube amp...I have a Crate VC50H Vintage Club 50w Head and 4x10" cab that I got for $350 out the door. Sounds great too. And that's a half stack... I mean look, you've got tons of people telling you to go with a tube amp. We obviously have a reason for telling you. Solid state just sounds horrible compared to real tube saturation and warmth.


Here's a combo version of my amp. But this is just an example of what you can get for around that price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Crate-Vintage-Club-50-50-Tube-Guitar-Amp_W0QQitemZ220003753321QQihZ012QQcategoryZ38073QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Mascot
07-09-2006, 01:55 AM
Don't buy the pedal board. Use that money to buy a good tube amp, and run the GT-6 through it. The GT-6 will sound much better through a tube amp.

Axegrinder#9
07-09-2006, 02:57 AM
Don't buy the pedal board. Use that money to buy a good tube amp, and run the GT-6 through it. The GT-6 will sound much better through a tube amp.

that unfortunately is the catch-22 situation I'm in, unless I sell of the GT6 and some other equipment, I can't buy the amp - and if I do sell them off, even to invest in a decent tube amp, I'll probably end up without an FX chain.

but the one thing which really threw me off processors was the way they sound different when reacting to different signal strengths. I mean it usually is that when you have a more powerful signal, the Signal:Noise ration approaches unity leading to better sound - however, the GT6 exhibits markedly different sonic textures when it's turned up and the signal fed thru to an amplifier or to a direct PA. This causes some grief when playing live, and that's something I'm going to be doing a lot later on when I get back to college.

Tom Martin
07-09-2006, 08:32 AM
It sounds to me like you need to get yourself a decent amp first. If the only amp you've got is a cheap SS amp then it sounds like thats the next thing that needs to be upgraded.

And I don't know why everyone is being such SS nazis here... SS amps aren't actually that bad... having a tube amp isn't the only answer to getting a good tone. Don't feel you need to go valve.

If buying a better amp means that you lose your FX chain for a while, the so be it. But trust me, buy yourself a decent amp first, then get a decent guitar, then knuckle down and become an effects junkie. I know its important to have the basic effects you'll need for playing live, but I wouldn't go worrying about minor details and getting precicely the right stompbox untill you really need it. You are only 20, you don't need to have your perfect tone sorted out quite yet - if you ever get into a situation where you will need to get it perfect, there will most likely be a hord of people to help you out.

I ramble too much.

Axegrinder#9
07-09-2006, 09:24 AM
well as far as having guitar goes I'm pretty comfy with what I have - I play a Kramer outfitted with a Seymour Duncan JB Jr. and a DiMarzio Tone Zone... I replaced the vol. pot and the guitar positively sings... I have been playing with effects since I had started playing, though all of 'em had been processors, starting off with the crappy Zoom 505II, to a Korg Ax100G and now the Boss GT6 which I've had over a year... I kinda know the tone that I want and I'm fairly proficient at my guitar playing so as to understand how to tweak a reasonably good sound out of my equipment. but over time, I've had to move on since I've found the FX units lacking... I was fairly content with the GT6 and I do have some cool tones which seem great for practicing and recording purposes, but whenever I've played live, I've never quite been happy with my sound...

anyway I kinda the lost the thread there.... my friend back in college has a Fender Frontline which I thought wasn't that bad an amp, and retained the guitar sound even when pushed up before starting to kill it... I might invest something along those lines...

Tom Martin
07-09-2006, 10:31 AM
Well what exactly is wrong with your sound live? If you get good tones out of it in the bedroom and studio, then you should be able to replicate the sounds live (as long as you have enough mids to cut through the mix - scooping mids sounds great in the bedroom but doesn't come through the mix live).

It might just be a problem with the sound and mix live.

waylay00
07-09-2006, 01:37 PM
^ Not necessarily. Like tube amps, solid state rectification WILL break up when being pushed, especially at a live situation or when the amp has a relatively low wattage. However, SS breakup sounds very unpleasant in most situations, unlike Tube saturation.

True, not all solid states are bad, and yes, they have their places. I have a friend who exclusively uses solid state amps. He is a jazz player though, and jazz players need the high headroom that a solid state amp offers. For example, many times when I saw Shawn Lane play live around here in Memphis, he was using a solid state amp. At those times though, he was playing mostly jazz.

I used to be a big effects junkie, but when I got my tube amp, that all changed. Now all I use is my wah, Keeley TS9DX, delay, and chorus (that's even stretching it). I used to have thousands of dollars worth of effects.

We're not being solid state "nazis", we're just trying to help him spend his hard-earned money correctly. I know of the many times I wish someone had stopped me from buying something that I regretted later on. But 99% of the time, tube amps will sound ten times better than a solid-state.

Axegrinder#9
07-09-2006, 02:53 PM
Well what exactly is wrong with your sound live? If you get good tones out of it in the bedroom and studio, then you should be able to replicate the sounds live (as long as you have enough mids to cut through the mix - scooping mids sounds great in the bedroom but doesn't come through the mix live).

It might just be a problem with the sound and mix live.

I'd go with waylay00 on that - I rarely have a scooped setting since I use a EQ setting on my GT6, however the only way to describe what happens is this: at lower volumes, the guitar sound is tight and cohesive, and when I turn it up, it sounds "loose" and hollow...

Resiliance
07-09-2006, 05:10 PM
^That sounds like the solidstate syndrome to me...

xxdarrenxx
07-10-2006, 02:02 AM
Yeah you wil get the exact problem with single effects. i mean if ou got a turd as a base it won't taste better if you put on cream and strawberry's and stuff. you need a good solid basis which can handle the efects chain keepin it tight.

SuburbanCowboy
07-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Ugghh, my friend (and jam buddy) went to GC to buy a new amp over the weekend. He wanted me to come with him but I didnt want to. Well I guess I should have... cause he came home with a $500 Crate solid-state half stack.. aka: the sh*ttiest amp he could have got. I'm so pissed off with him. He thinks that because its 120 watts its a "sick amp." It sounds like a blender plugged into a homeless man's asshole.

Anyway, point of the story is that solid state amps are for idiots like this kid who dont know sh*t about amps. You're a great player, Axegrinder, and you deserve an amp with tone that will do your chops justice.

Have you check out B-52's? They're a little pricey, but this is the best combo on the planet for under a grand, imo. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/B52-AT212-100Watt-2-x-12-Combo-Tube-Amp?sku=481309 (http://)


edit: i dont know why that link wont work. just go to musiciansfriend.com and search "B 52 AT 212" if u wanna see it

waylay00
07-10-2006, 10:06 PM
Meh, I've never been a big fan of the B-52's, but still it's better than a solid state. :)