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brentondig
08-18-2006, 03:48 PM
True Sabbath fans chill here, and discuss various Sabbath topics, such as Ozzy vs. Dio, Iommi, whatever.

Enjoy talking about the Blackest of Sabbath. :headbang:

danzig-_-
08-18-2006, 03:50 PM
umm i dont know what to say in here but.....
i think ozzy is a way better singer.....TRUE black sabbath
discuss?

brentondig
08-18-2006, 03:51 PM
I definitely agree. I think he's better because he was the first, more like the one and only, because the whole band sounded different with Dio, musically.

MusicHead32
08-18-2006, 03:56 PM
ozzy>dio

Inahrima
08-18-2006, 03:58 PM
Doesn't black sabbath belong in the metal forum? Iron maidens there. Remove this and repost it there.

rx_eb
08-18-2006, 10:21 PM
Doesn't black sabbath belong in the metal forum? Iron maidens there. Remove this and repost it there.

Black Sabbath is CR, mthrfckr.
Metal is a genre and CR is a time era. You see, Sabbaths played metal and belongs to the CR era...

The reason why Iron Maiden isn't considered CR because they don't deserve to. ;) end of story

TheUltimateSin
08-18-2006, 11:53 PM
The reason why Iron Maiden isn't considered CR because they don't deserve to. ;) end of story

[/narrow-mindedness]

:rolleyes:

Actually, it's because Iron Maiden was part of a musical movement most commenly referred to as the "NWOBHM", or "New Wave of British Heavy Metal".

@ threadstarter:
such as Ozzy vs. Dio

Saying this is the #1 way to get your thread closed, #2 being not using the search function and making a thread that has been made 345814519855 times.

rx_eb
08-19-2006, 12:37 AM
[/narrow-mindedness]

:rolleyes:

Actually, it's because Iron Maiden was part of a musical movement most commenly referred to as the "NWOBHM", or "New Wave of British Heavy Metal".

shush :p:

and actually that isn't narrow-mindedness :rolleyes:

NGD1313
08-19-2006, 12:40 AM
Ozzy w/ Sabbath > Dio w/ Sabbath

Ozzy (solo) > Dio (band)

Ozzy (now) > Dio (now)

/debate

Danne55
08-19-2006, 07:33 AM
Saying this is the #1 way to get your thread closed, #2 being not using the search function and making a thread that has been made 345814519855 times.

:cheers:

I've think it has been done more than 345814519855 times :p:

chylde_of_fire
08-19-2006, 07:55 AM
Black Sabbath is CR, mthrfckr.
Metal is a genre and CR is a time era. You see, Sabbaths played metal and belongs to the CR era...

Judas Preist, Motorhead, Venom, Pentagram, Witchfinder General plus many more are all metal bands that were formed/released most of their classic material within the 'pre - 1984' era that defines classic rock on this forum. Yet they are unquestionabley Metal, not Classic Rock. The same applies for Sabbath. They never were, are, or will be anything but metal.

Plus the thread in the metal forum has more replies. Go figure.

rx_eb
08-19-2006, 08:01 AM
Judas Preist, Motorhead, Venom, Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Witchfinder General plus many more are all metal bands that were formed/released most of their classic material within the 'pre - 1984' era that defines classic rock on this forum. Yet they are unquestionabley Metal, not Classic Rock. The same applies for Sabbath. They never were, are, or will be anything but metal.

no it doesn't
go ask a mod :)

chylde_of_fire
08-19-2006, 08:03 AM
no it doesn't
go ask a mod :)
So what exactly is it that makes Black Sabbath classic rock and other 70s metal bands not?

bodyheatseeker
08-19-2006, 09:20 AM
well Tony Iommi always said he thought Sabbath were heavy rock. I think you could have them in either forum really, they were the grandaddies of metal yet still around at the right time for you to call them classic rock.
As for Iron Maiden and Motorhead ect I always considered them a bit of a grey area but they were heavy when they started and their roots were always hard rock and such while Sabbath had sort of bluesy roots so I think thats the main difference

rx_eb
08-19-2006, 10:13 AM
So what exactly is it that makes Black Sabbath classic rock and other 70s metal bands not?

well maybe because they're considered one of the godfathers of heavy metal. and don't forget that they debuted in the 60s and played blues rock, hard rock as well as jazz before they moved into Heavy Metal and pioneered the genre.

Those bands you've just listed earlier are indeed Black Sabbath's contemporaries but I think you just can't categorize them into the same class with Sabbath. Black Sabbath was and is always in higher class (in my opinion of course) and only bands like Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Scorpions and maybe Judas Priest or Wishbone Ash can be in.

chylde_of_fire
08-19-2006, 01:02 PM
well Tony Iommi always said he thought Sabbath were heavy rock. I think you could have them in either forum really, they were the grandaddies of metal yet still around at the right time for you to call them classic rock.
Iommi would have said they were heavy rock as before Sabbath metal did not exist, and therefore the genre didn't have a concrete name as such (if that makes any sense), where as now, in retrospect, we can say that they are a metal band, specificaly Doom metal.

well maybe because they're considered one of the godfathers of heavy metal. and don't forget that they debuted in the 60s and played blues rock, hard rock as well as jazz before they moved into Heavy Metal and pioneered the genre.
I am aware that Sabbath started of in this way, back when they were known as Earth and Polka Tulk. That does not, however, detract from the fact that their self titled album was metal. Bluesy metal, but still metal.
There are many other bands that started off playing another type of music before becoming metal, for example Napalm Death's early demos were hardcore/crust punk, but by the time they put out their first full-length 'Scum', they had morphed into a fully-fledged Grind band.

bodyheatseeker
08-19-2006, 02:14 PM
Iommi would have said they were heavy rock as before Sabbath metal did not exist, and therefore the genre didn't have a concrete name as such (if that makes any sense)


True and you do make a good point it's just in a recent interview with Iommi he said he never saw Sabbath as metal even now he calls them hard rock

BlueOyster23
08-19-2006, 02:49 PM
I think UG needs to decide where bands like Black Sabbath belong in the forums.

Inahrima
08-19-2006, 03:02 PM
^ Since deciding a genre based solely on time period alone seems extremly stupid, i'd say Black Sabbath belongs in the Metal Forum.

BlueOyster23
08-19-2006, 03:19 PM
I disagree, I find that Black Sabbath was/is defienately hard rock, of the classic sort, due to not only the massive amount of blues styling, but other stylings to. Like "Changes" isn't a metal ballad, it's something else. "Never Say Die" and "Supernaut" seem to experiment elsewhere than metal, as many classic rock bands experimented with their sound.

Ziggy193
08-19-2006, 04:58 PM
Sabbath was really both hard rock and heavy metal. They did originate the metal formula, but their music is a bit more blues-based than most metal bands. It's the same way with AC/DC; everyone always calls them metal, but they're really more hard rock (hell, Angus was even offended when people called them metal).

On a side note, I'm kind of new to Black Sabbath, and I do own Paranoid and Black Sabbath (the album), and I'm wondering which album to get next. So...can anyone help? (And don't say Master Of Reality, because I already know I need to get that one.)

dazedandconfusd
08-19-2006, 05:02 PM
^Volume 4 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Those should keep you happy for a while.

chylde_of_fire
08-19-2006, 05:37 PM
Any of the first 6 albums, Heaven and Hell is essential, also try Mob rules, Born Again, Eternal Idol and Headless Cross for a good overview of post - Ozzy Sabbath.

TheUltimateSin
08-19-2006, 05:39 PM
Sabbath was really both hard rock and heavy metal. They did originate the metal formula, but their music is a bit more blues-based than most metal bands. It's the same way with AC/DC; everyone always calls them metal, but they're really more hard rock (hell, Angus was even offended when people called them metal)

I've never heard anyone call Ac/Dc metal. I would have killed them by now :confused:

and actually that isn't narrow-mindedness :rolleyes:

Oh?

The reason why Iron Maiden isn't considered CR because they don't deserve to

The narrow-mindedness-o-meter nearly broke after taking a reading off of that ;)

But, not to stray from the object, Master of Reality is one of my favorite albums. One of the few albums I can stand to hear from front to back.

Ziggy193
08-19-2006, 08:53 PM
I've never heard anyone call Ac/Dc metal. I would have killed them by now :confused:

Well, for example, at the music store at the mall where I live, they have AC/DC in the metal section. And also, most music magazines (namely, the stupid ones that praise Green Day incessantly) call AC/DC metal. And while I do disagree with that, AC/DC did undoubtedly influence the metal sound from the 80's. But they, themselves, are not metal. The closest they came to metal was probably Whole Lotta Rosie, and that's still not even close.

rx_eb
08-19-2006, 08:54 PM
The narrow-mindedness-o-meter nearly broke after taking a reading off of that ;)

oh no that's just the opinion was being narrow-minded not me not me :p:

^ Since deciding a genre based solely on time period alone seems extremly stupid, i'd say Black Sabbath belongs in the Metal Forum.

well please just shut up about it. enough discussions already

why can we just let Black Sabbath's threads be posted in both metal AND CR? e.g Just like SRV and Eric Clapton's cases (both here and the blues forum) or MC5 (well they're proto-punk but still both here and punk forum)

just so this doesn't go off the topic
first 5 Sabbath's albums are their best. i never really liked Heaven and Hell (i prefered Dio's work with Blackmore than with Iommi)

TheUltimateSin
08-19-2006, 09:03 PM
Well, for example, at the music store at the mall where I live, they have AC/DC in the metal section. And also, most music magazines (namely, the stupid ones that praise Green Day incessantly) call AC/DC metal. And while I do disagree with that, AC/DC did undoubtedly influence the metal sound from the 80's. But they, themselves, are not metal. The closest they came to metal was probably Whole Lotta Rosie, and that's still not even close.


Wait.....I take back what I said....there are ignorant people, a lot of which I've seen on this site alone, who have this notion that Ac/Dc are Hair Metal. I remember blowing a circut at the few who mentioned them in that context. Ac/Dc are FAR from hair metal. They neither sound nor look like what a Hair Metal band should. NITRO, or Twisted Sister, for example, are Hair Metal.

Hair Metal = Big poofy hair, tight leather pants, and guitar masturbation.

And on the Black Sabbath theory: They are both Classic Rock and Metal. Simple as that. They played Metal(at the time what constituted as metal) during the Classic Rock era. It's not that difficult to understand. What's the problem?

Ziggy193
08-19-2006, 09:06 PM
And on the Black Sabbath theory: They are both Classic Rock and Metal. Simple as that. They played Metal(at the time what constituted as metal) during the Classic Rock era. It's not that difficult to understand. What's the problem?

I think the problem is that people are stupid. Yeah, that's it...people are stupid.

rx_eb
08-19-2006, 09:38 PM
I think the problem is that people are stupid. Yeah, that's it...people are stupid.

:haha

but hey you misspelt "executed" in your sig :p:

Ziggy193
08-19-2006, 09:43 PM
:haha

but hey you misspelt "executed" in your sig :p:

Well my God, I did...I must have typed it too fast. Whatever, I'm gonna change that thing anyway, who cares.

An oh yeah, you misspelled "misspelled", ironically. But all spelling errors aside, a lot of people still maintain the title of "stupid", mostly the people who constantly argue over whether Sabbath and AC/DC are CR or Metal. Sabbth are both. AC/DC are CR. There you go. Get used to it.

rx_eb
08-19-2006, 09:49 PM
Well my God, I did...I must have typed it too fast. Whatever, I'm gonna change that thing anyway, who cares.

An oh yeah, you misspelled "misspelled", ironically.

no actually it was right

either mispelt or mispelled (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/misspell)

it's ironic that you said people are stupid while you yourself misspells words





....just jk :p: a few spelling mistakes won't hurt no one

TheUltimateSin
08-19-2006, 09:57 PM
Well my God, I did...I must have typed it too fast. Whatever, I'm gonna change that thing anyway, who cares.

An oh yeah, you misspelled "misspelled", ironically. But all spelling errors aside, a lot of people still maintain the title of "stupid", mostly the people who constantly argue over whether Sabbath and AC/DC are CR or Metal. They're both. Get used to it.


Er...that was all good and all up until you included Ac/Dc in the "they are both" part. :(

Ziggy193
08-19-2006, 10:00 PM
Er...that was all good and all up until you included Ac/Dc in the "they are both" part. :(

Oh, I must not have been thinking right there. I was mostly talking about Sabbath during that, so I guess I just forgot. Whatever, I can go back and change it.

EDIT: There, thy post hath been edited by The Ziggy.

TheUltimateSin
08-19-2006, 10:06 PM
Much better :)

claptonfan55
08-24-2006, 06:22 PM
Without Ozzy, Black Sabbath wouldn't be Black Sabbath.

kshelt76
08-26-2006, 12:55 AM
AC/DC is heavy metal, which is different from metal. Black Sabbath is metal. AC/DC couldn't have pulled off some of Sabbath's material, and I don't think Sabbath could play AC/DC material. Two different sounds. But both get included into classic rock because they not only fell in the certain time period, but more importantly, their music transcends the time they were famous during and has influenced numerous bands and musical styles that came after them.

VANHALENGUITAR
08-26-2006, 01:04 AM
i think your in the wrong forum too but black sabbath is way overrated

kshelt76
08-26-2006, 01:11 AM
i think your in the wrong forum too but black sabbath is way overrated


Let me put this out there, I don't like Black Sabbath. I've never cared much for their music(not a big metal fan) and I doubt I ever will. But to say that they're overrated is just ignorant. I'm sorry, but it is. I see by your name that you're a VH fan. Without Sabbath there wouldn't have been an AC/DC, Van Halen, and any other hard rock/heavy metal band. Sabbath helped to pioneer hard rock and for that reason, even though I don't like their music, I owe them a tremendous amount of respect.

rx_eb
08-26-2006, 04:07 AM
heavy metal, which is different from metal.

:haha :haha
Heavy Metal is not like Nu Metal :haha

Heavy Metal is subgenre of Metal and AC/DC are hard rock. I don't think they have anything to do with Metal ;)

Ziggy193
08-26-2006, 12:08 PM
AC/DC is heavy metal, which is different from metal.

No. AC/DC was never, ever heavy metal, and they never will be. Heavy metal is Metallica, stuff like that. But AC/DC is, always has been, and always will be, hard rock.

Without Sabbath there wouldn't have been an AC/DC, Van Halen, and any other hard rock/heavy metal band. Sabbath helped to pioneer hard rock and for that reason, even though I don't like their music, I owe them a tremendous amount of respect.

That's funny, because as I recall, AC/DC's influences included Chuck Berry, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, The Beatles, The Who...NOT Black Sabbath.

Christ, this is almost as bad as the people in the 70's who called AC/DC punk rock. At least know what you're talking about before you say something. :rolleyes:

johnnystarr
08-26-2006, 03:53 PM
there ok

kshelt76
08-26-2006, 10:06 PM
No. AC/DC was never, ever heavy metal, and they never will be. Heavy metal is Metallica, stuff like that. But AC/DC is, always has been, and always will be, hard rock.



That's funny, because as I recall, AC/DC's influences included Chuck Berry, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, The Beatles, The Who...NOT Black Sabbath.

Christ, this is almost as bad as the people in the 70's who called AC/DC punk rock. At least know what you're talking about before you say something. :rolleyes:


Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.


Moving on to influences, just because a band doesn't list someone as their influence, doesn't mean that band didn't have any sort of influence on their music. It could be said that Chuck Berry influenced tons of future classic rock bands, but that doesn't mean that he was one of their influences. The same goes with Hendrix who is considered to be one of the most influential guitarists of all time, however, that doesn't mean that every single band who plays music that is similar to his or evolved from his influences is going to list him as an influence. When I said that Sabbath influenced them, I didn't mean that AC/DC formed solely because they listened to Sabbath material, but that Sabbath opened the door and created a market amongst people who wanted to listen to a heavier, more riff laden style of rock. If I'm wrong in saying that, then I'm sorry.

BlueOyster23
08-27-2006, 03:03 PM
^Have you listened to AC/DC and Black Sabbath, they are nothing alike. Black Sabbath is a darker, grittier, lower band, while AC/DC is just a loud hard rock band. ...And I know people won't appreciate me talking about GNR in this forum, but Guns N' Roses are more towards metal than AC/DC, yet GNR are also just hard rock.

AzureNight
08-27-2006, 03:06 PM
Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.
Because they have no clue what they are talking about. AC/DC are hard rock. There is nothing metal about them. Wikipedia heavy metal or metal music and you'll understand.

thehangouter
08-27-2006, 03:57 PM
I just came after like 2years to the site of my hearth no net) and what my eyes see?

f,u.c.k.ing threads like this one. It should be banned.

*reported*

Ziggy193
08-27-2006, 07:45 PM
Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.


Moving on to influences, just because a band doesn't list someone as their influence, doesn't mean that band didn't have any sort of influence on their music. It could be said that Chuck Berry influenced tons of future classic rock bands, but that doesn't mean that he was one of their influences. The same goes with Hendrix who is considered to be one of the most influential guitarists of all time, however, that doesn't mean that every single band who plays music that is similar to his or evolved from his influences is going to list him as an influence. When I said that Sabbath influenced them, I didn't mean that AC/DC formed solely because they listened to Sabbath material, but that Sabbath opened the door and created a market amongst people who wanted to listen to a heavier, more riff laden style of rock. If I'm wrong in saying that, then I'm sorry.


I would respond to that first thing, but I believe those two guys above me already got that.

As for the second part, yes, you are wrong in saying that. Just because Sabbath opened the door for the market for heavier, more riff laden rock doesn't mean AC/DC never would have existed without them. They didn't just form because Sabbath popularized that kind of music, they played in that style because that was just how they played.

Honestly, I can understand what you're trying to say. Black Sabbath had a huge influence on the hard rock and heavy metal genres; there's no denying that. But to say that "without Sabbath there never would have been an AC/DC..." is just ignorant.

TheUltimateSin
08-27-2006, 07:55 PM
Hmm, not heavy metal huh? So then why everytime people list the most famous heavy metal bands are ACDC always in there. Why for every album review on this site does it say Heavy Metal in the style category. Define your term of heavy metal so that I can understand why AC/DC isn't included.

Because those people have not listen to actual "heavy metal". There is nothing metal about Ac/Dc. Neither their music nor their appearence have depicted anything of or relating to Heavy Metal. Calling Ac/Dc heavy metal is like calling The Who Rap/R&B.

kshelt76
08-27-2006, 09:52 PM
Alright, I can see when I've been beaten and I stand corrected. I guess I've defined AC/DC as heavy metal because of how I've defined Heavy Metal. I've always defined metal as a subgenre of hard rock that usually involves powerful rock riffs, solos, a dark, gritty, sorrowful sound, and an image that matches that dark gritty sound(such as Ozzy's stage antics and calling himself the prince of darkness). This subgenre includes Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Megadeath and similar such bands. On the other hand, I've always considered Heavy Metal to be a subgenre of classic rock that resembles Metal(because of the hard powerful riffs and solos) but doesn't delve as much into the dark, gritty atmosphere of Metal. And therefore I've always classified bands such as Zeppelin, ACDC, Van Halen, Deep Purple and others like them into Heavy Metal/Classic Hard Rock because their music is still powerful and riff laden, but it has a "lighter" atmosphere to it, not a dark morose atmosphere.


However, I'm not going to back down from my claim that Black Sabbath opened the door for Heavy Metal or Hard Rock bands such as AC/DC and Van Halen to become popular and thrive. I will admit that if Sabbath hadn't come along, AC/DC probably would've become a big band anyway, but they owe at least a little bit of respect and honor to Sabbath for pioneering a new form of rock music and opening the door so that they could become the massively popular rock band that they became.

TheUltimateSin
08-27-2006, 10:01 PM
Alright, I can see when I've been beaten and I stand corrected....

*insert post body here*

.....This subgenre includes Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Megadeath and similar such bands

:eek: :wtf:

Sorry. It's rare that this type of event happens. What generally happens is the person refuses to accept general knowledge. :p:

@ underlined part: Those bands are metal. Iron Maiden is part of a musical movement known as the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, Metallica and Megadeth are both Thrash Metal. So in that respect, you would be correct. Although this may sound vague and a little misguiding, Ac/Dc's sound is far too bluesy to be considered metal. But that is an underlying factor. There is more in-depth to take into account

Ziggy193
08-27-2006, 10:31 PM
However, I'm not going to back down from my claim that Black Sabbath opened the door for Heavy Metal or Hard Rock bands such as AC/DC and Van Halen to become popular and thrive. I will admit that if Sabbath hadn't come along, AC/DC probably would've become a big band anyway, but they owe at least a little bit of respect and honor to Sabbath for pioneering a new form of rock music and opening the door so that they could become the massively popular rock band that they became.

Oh, okay, I see what you meant now. True, Sabbath did open the door for the hard rock/heavy metal style to become popular. So you're right there. However, in your first post, you made it sound like every hard rock or metal band after Sabbath wouldn't have formed if not for them.

Well, now that this little argument has been (hopefully) dropped, why don't we get to actually discussing Black Sabbath a little bit? I guess we can start with something generic like...uh, what's your favorite Sabbath song? Of the ones I've heard so far (since I own only two of their albums), I like Electric Funeral, Iron Man, Jack The Stripper/Fairies Wear Boots, and Black Sabbath (btw, am I the only one somewhat annoyed that there's a song called Black Sabbath on an album called Black Sabbath by a band named Black Sabbath?)

kshelt76
08-27-2006, 10:42 PM
@ underlined part: Those bands are metal. Iron Maiden is part of a musical movement known as the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, Metallica and Megadeth are both Thrash Metal. So in that respect, you would be correct. Although this may sound vague and a little misguiding, Ac/Dc's sound is far too bluesy to be considered metal. But that is an underlying factor. There is more in-depth to take into account[/QUOTE]


I understand that AC/DC is not Metal. I've even had that argument(whether they're metal or not. Interestingly the arguments three main bands were Sabbath[what i called metal] and ACDC/Van Halen[what I was trying to call Heavy Metal) with someone I know, and at no point did I try to call AC/DC metal. Their sound is much different from anything I've ever considered metal. I was just saying that I've always called them Heavy Metal because their sound is similar to metal( the powerful riffs and solos and what not) but theyre not metal because unlike Sabbath, their music doesnt create a dark morose atmosphere. The blues background obviously plays a big role in this, as well as the subject matter of their songs(Sabbath could never pull off playing songs like It's a longway to the top, Can I sit next to you girl, Who Lotta Rosie because it would be so much different from their sound. Vice Versa, AC/DC, at least IMO, never had the dark sound that Sabbath did.) Basically, I've always heard, learned, and considered Heavy Metal to be hard rock music made in the classic rock period that isn't metal but has aspects in songwriting that are similar to it. I've then always considered Hard Rock the sort of music that is played today in bands like Audioslave.

kshelt76
08-27-2006, 10:50 PM
Oh, okay, I see what you meant now. True, Sabbath did open the door for the hard rock/heavy metal style to become popular. So you're right there. However, in your first post, you made it sound like every hard rock or metal band after Sabbath wouldn't have formed if not for them.

Well, now that this little argument has been (hopefully) dropped, why don't we get to actually discussing Black Sabbath a little bit? I guess we can start with something generic like...uh, what's your favorite Sabbath song? Of the ones I've heard so far (since I own only two of their albums), I like Electric Funeral, Iron Man, Jack The Stripper/Fairies Wear Boots, and Black Sabbath (btw, am I the only one somewhat annoyed that there's a song called Black Sabbath on an album called Black Sabbath by a band named Black Sabbath?)

One last comment on the my ACDC argument, and then I'm done. If it appeared that I was trying to say Sabbath is solely responsible for starting ACDC then I'm sorry. I never meant that. I was simply trying to show the person who called them way overrated that they as pioneers of hard rock and metal, they deserve all the credit and accolades that they get.


On to the real purpose of this thread, although I don't really like much of Sabbath's music(not a big metal fan) I have to admit Iommi is an amazing guitarist. His riffs and solos are awesome. If he had been in a non metal band, I would probably be a huge fan of it.

TheUltimateSin
08-27-2006, 11:09 PM
I understand that AC/DC is not Metal. I've even had that argument(whether they're metal or not. Interestingly the arguments three main bands were Sabbath[what i called metal] and ACDC/Van Halen[what I was trying to call Heavy Metal) with someone I know, and at no point did I try to call AC/DC metal. Their sound is much different from anything I've ever considered metal. I was just saying that I've always called them Heavy Metal because their sound is similar to metal( the powerful riffs and solos and what not) but theyre not metal because unlike Sabbath, their music doesnt create a dark morose atmosphere. The blues background obviously plays a big role in this, as well as the subject matter of their songs(Sabbath could never pull off playing songs like It's a longway to the top, Can I sit next to you girl, Who Lotta Rosie because it would be so much different from their sound. Vice Versa, AC/DC, at least IMO, never had the dark sound that Sabbath did.) Basically, I've always heard, learned, and considered Heavy Metal to be hard rock music made in the classic rock period that isn't metal but has aspects in songwriting that are similar to it. I've then always considered Hard Rock the sort of music that is played today in bands like Audioslave.

So, if I can sum this up correctly, you were mislead because of your misunderstanding of what metal/heavy metal was. Correct?

kshelt76
08-27-2006, 11:18 PM
Correct

distilledspirit
10-05-2006, 02:50 PM
Hah, had no idea there was a thread already, my bad.

Best album has to be Master of Reality

hamett91
10-05-2006, 03:15 PM
There is a thread...in this very forum...with the same title as this one...three threads down. Use the search button or in this case, scroll down the page.

Hah, had no idea there was a thread already, my bad.

Best album has to be Master of Reality
You started the old thread, not your bad. :)

distilledspirit
10-05-2006, 03:44 PM
:confused:

I don't know if that would make sense even if I didn't make that thread. ;)

hamett91
10-05-2006, 03:48 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused:
What doesn't make sense?

Deltaseeker
10-05-2006, 03:52 PM
I came here hoping to see a dicussion of one of my favorate bands, just to find 3 pages of peopel argueeing about what genre they are in.....

hamett91
10-05-2006, 03:59 PM
I came here hoping to see a dicussion of one of my favorate bands, just to find 3 pages of peopel argueeing about what genre they are in.....
Welcome to the forums. :cheers:

get-born
10-05-2006, 05:19 PM
That is how it works around here...

ToysInTheAttic1
10-05-2006, 09:07 PM
What is everyone's favorite album and favorite member?

My fave album is a tie between Paranoid and Black Sabbath. My fave member is Geezer Butler because he's an awesome bassist(I play bass) and he has the coolest name.

hamett91
10-05-2006, 09:33 PM
Tony is my favorite and Master of Reality.

sjada
10-05-2006, 09:37 PM
my favorite member is tony. i know its cliche for a guitar site, but hes my favorite guitarist, also im a drummer too

Danne55
10-08-2006, 02:17 PM
I came here hoping to see a dicussion of one of my favorate bands, just to find 3 pages of peopel argueeing about what genre they are in.....

Yeah I know how you feel....

Anyway my favoutire member is the drummer Cozy Powell. He played with Sabbath in the late 80's on the albums Headless Cross, TYR and on the 1995 album Forbidden. Not so classic Sabbth albums :p:

ToysInTheAttic1
10-08-2006, 03:15 PM
^ What other bands did Cozy Powell play in? His name sounds familiar.

chylde_of_fire
10-08-2006, 03:50 PM
^ What other bands did Cozy Powell play in? His name sounds familiar.
RAINBOW! Awesome drummer, his intro to Stargazer pwned. RIP.

To Danne55, Tyr and Headless Cross are actualy regarded as two of the better Sabbath albums from that period, certainly better than Seventh Star. The first three Tony Martin albums are underated in general, imo.

Lost_Rose
10-09-2006, 08:01 AM
I disagree, I find that Black Sabbath was/is defienately hard rock, of the classic sort, due to not only the massive amount of blues styling, but other stylings to. Like "Changes" isn't a metal ballad, it's something else. "Never Say Die" and "Supernaut" seem to experiment elsewhere than metal, as many classic rock bands experimented with their sound.

I totaly agree you cant wack sabbath into the metal forum as they are to diverse in their style they are a HARD/HEAVY ROCK band nothing else

Danne55
10-09-2006, 09:23 AM
^^ Dont awake that discussion again please!!! :p:

^ What other bands did Cozy Powell play in? His name sounds familiar.

Rainbow, Whitesnake, MSG, he also has played with Gary Moore, Yngwie Malmsteen, Brian May, Glann Tipton, Jeff Beck etc etc
(Some of them aren't CR I know)

RAINBOW! Awesome drummer, his intro to Stargazer pwned. RIP.

To Danne55, Tyr and Headless Cross are actualy regarded as two of the better Sabbath albums from that period, certainly better than Seventh Star. The first three Tony Martin albums are underated in general, imo.
That intro is great.

Those albums are underrated. I also must say Seventh Star isn't THAT bad as many people want to say...

chylde_of_fire
10-09-2006, 01:08 PM
I also must say Seventh Star isn't THAT bad as many people want to say...
I guess as a Sabbath album, it's not that great, but it was never intended to be released as a Sabbath album, rather an Iommi solo effort.
It works well as a classic rock/glam album, but not as a metal one in the vein of the other Black Sabbath releases from that era.

slack babbath
10-24-2006, 03:43 PM
Favourite album is a tie between black sabbath and paranoid. I've not really listened to anything after never say die.Heard bits but never taken to it.
Ozzy's voice just seems to fit the music so well, especially on the song black sabbath.I couldn't imagine anyone else singing that.

chopps00
10-25-2006, 02:23 AM
Quite frankly, Id like to say shut up to Ultimate Sin. He is a jackass.

raahil_cool
10-25-2006, 02:35 AM
i like thier songs but cant stand their music. i dont know why :sad: maybe becauase of bad quality

chopps00
10-26-2006, 12:08 AM
i like thier songs but cant stand their music. i dont know why :sad: maybe becauase of bad quality

So you like their songs but can't stand their music, eh? Well, you've confused me. :confused:

Danne55
10-26-2006, 10:58 AM
^^ :haha yeah me too

raahil_cool
10-28-2006, 04:57 AM
i meant, i like they way they compose songs but i dont like the quality of thier studio recording

heyjoehendrix32
10-29-2006, 07:52 PM
What is everyone's favorite album and favorite member?

My fave album is a tie between Paranoid and Black Sabbath. My fave member is Geezer Butler because he's an awesome bassist(I play bass) and he has the coolest name.

favorite ozzy album- sabbath bloody sabbath

favorite dio album- heaven and hell or mob rules

favorite member- tony iommi, hes my idol

TheHeartbreaker
10-29-2006, 08:11 PM
I recently traded with get-born for their debut album.

I must say, they are fairly good - a lot better than what I expected.

I really like Wasp/Behind the Wall of Sleep/Bassically/N.I.B. the best so far.

DieN
10-30-2006, 03:44 AM
Get paranoid and master of reality as well!

get-born
10-30-2006, 07:48 AM
I recently traded with get-born for their debut album.

.

:cool:

Tony Iommi

Black Sabbath

TheHeartbreaker
10-30-2006, 12:38 PM
Tony Iommi is pretty good, but I think some people make him out to me more than he is, but it's quite possible I just haven't listened to enough Sabbath.

DieN
10-30-2006, 03:34 PM
He is a very unique person and comes up with great riffs. And he's a leftie too! All in all he is one of my favourite gituar players.

chylde_of_fire
10-30-2006, 04:08 PM
Especially when you consider he lost two of the finger tips on his fretting hand.

krymson
10-30-2006, 06:47 PM
He is the master of the riff

get-born
10-30-2006, 07:40 PM
Yeah, and his droped tunigns were unheard of at the time...

chopps00
10-31-2006, 12:21 AM
Get paranoid and master of reality as well!

If you get those, you'll want Volume 4.

:cool:

Danne55
10-31-2006, 12:22 PM
favorite dio album- heaven and hell or mob rules

You mentioned 2 out of 3 Dio studioalbums there :p:
Anyway I've started listening to Master of Reality and really enjoy it. Just a question about it: is the music on the album a start of the genre "Doom metal" ??

chylde_of_fire
10-31-2006, 12:57 PM
You mentioned 2 out of 3 Dio studioalbums there :p:
Anyway I've started listening to Master of Reality and really enjoy it. Just a question about it: is the music on the album a start of the genre "Doom metal" ??
Doom Metal, as well as metal in general, started with the S/T album. The title track is probably the best song to sum up Doom as a genre, in my opinion. The first four albums are all considered to be Doom Metal, on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage they started branching out although there are still songs on those albums that could be considered Doom.
There was also another band who were playing similar styled Doom Metal at the same time, the american band Pentagram, who formed in 1971 and released demos/singles throughout the 70s. Try and get hold of their compilations First Daze Here and First Daze Here Too for a retrospective of their early material, which was just as important to early Heavy and Doom Metal as Sabbath.

Page&HammettFan
10-31-2006, 03:37 PM
Tony Iommi is pretty good, but I think some people make him out to me more than he is, but it's quite possible I just haven't listened to enough Sabbath.
I think he gets alot of his respect from being such a guitar pioneer, not to say I don't like Sabbath or anything he is one of my idols. But if you havent seen them do the song Black Sabbath on the DVD the last supper, the solo was cool as hell. That was the only live version I'd ever seen but it rocked.

Page&HammettFan
10-31-2006, 03:43 PM
You mentioned 2 out of 3 Dio studioalbums there :p:
Anyway I've started listening to Master of Reality and really enjoy it. Just a question about it: is the music on the album a start of the genre "Doom metal" ??
To me the lyrics on that one weren't as dark as the other two. The riffs weren't quite so dark either, just heavy. Like with the first two albums the riffs and lyrics all sounded different than with Master of Reality. Might be aq good debate topic eh?

Page&HammettFan
10-31-2006, 03:45 PM
Sabbath was really both hard rock and heavy metal. They did originate the metal formula, but their music is a bit more blues-based than most metal bands. It's the same way with AC/DC; everyone always calls them metal, but they're really more hard rock (hell, Angus was even offended when people called them metal).

On a side note, I'm kind of new to Black Sabbath, and I do own Paranoid and Black Sabbath (the album), and I'm wondering which album to get next. So...can anyone help? (And don't say Master Of Reality, because I already know I need to get that one.)
The DVD "The Last Supper" is good except vocal overdubs during some solos and the verse to the song Black Sabbath. And Angus also hated being called punk rock ;).

Page&HammettFan
10-31-2006, 03:48 PM
Well, for example, at the music store at the mall where I live, they have AC/DC in the metal section. And also, most music magazines (namely, the stupid ones that praise Green Day incessantly) call AC/DC metal. And while I do disagree with that, AC/DC did undoubtedly influence the metal sound from the 80's. But they, themselves, are not metal. The closest they came to metal was probably Whole Lotta Rosie, and that's still not even close.
Not to stray off topic but yea, they're Blues/Hard Rock.

Page&HammettFan
10-31-2006, 03:54 PM
Let me put this out there, I don't like Black Sabbath. I've never cared much for their music(not a big metal fan) and I doubt I ever will. But to say that they're overrated is just ignorant. I'm sorry, but it is. I see by your name that you're a VH fan. Without Sabbath there wouldn't have been an AC/DC, Van Halen, and any other hard rock/heavy metal band. Sabbath helped to pioneer hard rock and for that reason, even though I don't like their music, I owe them a tremendous amount of respect.
Very well put! THANK YOU!

Page&HammettFan
10-31-2006, 03:59 PM
^Have you listened to AC/DC and Black Sabbath, they are nothing alike. Black Sabbath is a darker, grittier, lower band, while AC/DC is just a loud hard rock band. ...And I know people won't appreciate me talking about GNR in this forum, but Guns N' Roses are more towards metal than AC/DC, yet GNR are also just hard rock.
BS GN'R's album "Appetite for Destruction", is the first thing to be considered hard rock for years. Those guys were hard rock. Some people might consider them hair metal because that fan base listened to them alot too, but fact is they're hard rock. And AC/DC weren't Heavy Metal, as stated before by others, the were an influence on the genre, but they themselves were more Hard Rock than Metal.

Ultimate_Gio92
11-01-2006, 03:13 PM
Ozzy w/ Sabbath > Dio w/ Sabbath

Ozzy (solo) > Dio (band)

Ozzy (now) > Dio (now)

/debate

i agree that ozzy with sabbath MAY be better than dio with sabbath, but ozzys solo band ALWAYS was worse than dios band. Dios band produced some classic stuff there

get-born
11-01-2006, 04:30 PM
What amp heads does Iommi use?

Page&HammettFan
11-01-2006, 04:49 PM
What amp heads does Iommi use?
I think he has a Laney custom head to go with his amps. I dunno if he does or not.

chylde_of_fire
11-01-2006, 04:50 PM
What amp heads does Iommi use?
Used to use Laney 100w Supergroup, currently using Laney GH-100TI, which is his custom model.

Danne55
11-02-2006, 02:01 PM
i agree that ozzy with sabbath MAY be better than dio with sabbath, but ozzys solo band ALWAYS was worse than dios band. Dios band produced some classic stuff there

I must say that I ejoyed both Dio and Ozzy soloworks really much.
They both have some real classics like Dio with Holy Diver, Rainbow in the Dark and We Rock, and Ozzy with Crazy Train, Mr Crowley, No more Tears and Mama Im Coming Home.

However I enjoy Dio's solo work better than his Sabbath (although his best is in Rainbow). With Ozzy I really cant decide wheter I like his solo or Sabbath work more.

OneHappyCamper
11-03-2006, 08:22 AM
Jesus, will you all just stop classifying music? God damnit... You can't put music into classes, genres and stuff. Black Sabbath is Black Sabbath, AC/DC is AC/DC, GN'R is GN'R, every one of these bands have a style of their own which is very distinctive. Just stop bickering about genres and LISTEN to the music. Seems like everyone here has forgotten that music was made to be listened to and not argued about... It seems that you guys argue about genres just to be able to put yourselves into a 'genre': Look, I'm a metalhead!! or Oh yeah baby, I listen to Hard Rock!!

And even if you just HAVE to have your petty genres, can't we all just agree to disagree?

(okay, I'll admit, rock, metal, blues and the basic genres are fine, but the classification of metal is laughable. It seems as though every time a new band makes it big, there has to be a new genre. I laugh at metal for this reason.)

Page&HammettFan
11-03-2006, 07:00 PM
Jesus, will you all just stop classifying music? God damnit... You can't put music into classes, genres and stuff. Black Sabbath is Black Sabbath, AC/DC is AC/DC, GN'R is GN'R, every one of these bands have a style of their own which is very distinctive. Just stop bickering about genres and LISTEN to the music. Seems like everyone here has forgotten that music was made to be listened to and not argued about... It seems that you guys argue about genres just to be able to put yourselves into a 'genre': Look, I'm a metalhead!! or Oh yeah baby, I listen to Hard Rock!!

And even if you just HAVE to have your petty genres, can't we all just agree to disagree?

(okay, I'll admit, rock, metal, blues and the basic genres are fine, but the classification of metal is laughable. It seems as though every time a new band makes it big, there has to be a new genre. I laugh at metal for this reason.)
Dude... If we wanna disagree yay. You can class someone into a genre if you like it isn't gonna kill the music. If I wanna class Black Sabbath as Hard Rock/Metal I'm allowed to do so. If I wanna call GN'R Hard Rock then I can if someone disagrees great they have a right to. Smae with AC/DC or any other band.

Page&HammettFan
11-03-2006, 07:03 PM
Dude we can class bands if we want to. BLack Sabbath can be considered Hard Rock/Metal by anyone who want to clss them in either genre. Same thing with AC/DC or GN'R. You can class them however you wanna class them. If I say that they're both Hard Rock then that's my opinion. If someone disagrees with me then that's theirs.

distilledspirit
11-04-2006, 08:35 AM
^Double Post...

OK, so besides the pointless topics that come up in this thread, I'm gonna begin a quest to complete my Sabbath collection. All I need is about 13 CD's I think :haha I'm Trying to get every era of the band, including the sucky ones (if any). Next band I'm going for is Queen.

TheHeartbreaker
11-04-2006, 08:55 AM
That's what I try to do with most bands as well... I think I've probably complete the Bob Dylan "collection".

And Led Zeppelin, and maybe a few others.

Most bands I haven't "finished" are missing live albums.

get-born
11-04-2006, 09:35 AM
That's what I try to do with most bands as well... I think I've probably complete the Bob Dylan "collection".

And Led Zeppelin, and maybe a few others.

Most bands I haven't "finished" are missing live albums.

I have only "finished" Zeppelin, but I would like to do a band like Boston, or (not classic rock) Guns N Roses, just to make it easier, and then move on to the harder bands...

Page&HammettFan
11-04-2006, 12:46 PM
I have only "finished" Zeppelin, but I would like to do a band like Boston, or (not classic rock) Guns N Roses, just to make it easier, and then move on to the harder bands...
Boston only have like four studios, do they have any live bootlegs of them? Oh and sorry for the double post above.

_Mayday_
11-04-2006, 02:50 PM
I'm currently listening to the album 'Paranoid' all the way through (having only heard the odd song at other times), and it's bloody brilliant. Since my knowledge on Sabbath is fairly sketchy (and without reading throught the whole thread), I have a copule of questions:

1. Did they make any other albums with Ozzy?
2. If so, would anyone be so kind as to send them to me?

TheHeartbreaker
11-04-2006, 03:04 PM
Boston only have like four studios, do they have any live bootlegs of them? Oh and sorry for the double post above.

Actually, I believe they have six.

Page&HammettFan
11-04-2006, 06:17 PM
Actually, I believe they have six.
Oh I didn't know that, and Sabbath also made the albums "Black Sabbath", "Master of Reality", and "Black Sabbath Vol. 4" with Ozzy. I think that they made two more after that but I'm not sure of the names or how many.

distilledspirit
11-05-2006, 10:38 AM
1. Did they make any other albums with Ozzy?
2. If so, would anyone be so kind as to send them to me?

1. They made 8 with Ozzy. Two of them are never considered any good because it was the decline of the Sabs.

2. Do you have AIM?


I just bought Sabotage...What a ****ing album! It's awesome although I haven't listen to all the tracks several times so I couldn't really give you a good review. But, since it's overlooked I might try for an AOTW and this time I'll pull through. BTW, sorry about failing on that Traffic album.

simmons100
11-05-2006, 05:22 PM
sabbath is metal

simmons100
11-05-2006, 05:25 PM
new rock is not metal ,xcept the ones that started singin along time ago and still sing today

chylde_of_fire
11-05-2006, 06:03 PM
new rock is not metal ,xcept the ones that started singin along time ago and still sing today
What the hell is that supposed to mean.
And Sabbath can be considered both Metal (as I do) and Classic Rock and can go in either forum. Don't start that argument again.

kshelt76
11-05-2006, 06:26 PM
What the hell is that supposed to mean.
And Sabbath can be considered both Metal (as I do) and Classic Rock and can go in either forum. Don't start that argument again.

Exactly, Classic Rock is not a genre of music, it is a time period. Sabbath was famous during the time period that is generally accepted as the CR period, and therefore belong in Classic Rock discussion. They are also a heavy metal/hard rock band and they can be discussed in the forums dedicated to those genres.

distilledspirit
11-05-2006, 07:03 PM
WHAT THE ****!!! WHO GIVES A ****, CAN'T WE HAVE A DAMN CONVERSATION ABOUT AN EXTRAORDINARY BAND WITHOUT SOME NOOB COMING AND SAYING WHETHER THEY ARE METAL OR NOT!!!??

I'm serious, it's really getting on my nerves lately. It doesn't matter, since there is a thread about them in the CRforum, that's where we talk about them, it doesn't ****ing matter.

Page&HammettFan
11-07-2006, 01:29 AM
WHAT THE ****!!! WHO GIVES A ****, CAN'T WE HAVE A DAMN CONVERSATION ABOUT AN EXTRAORDINARY BAND WITHOUT SOME NOOB COMING AND SAYING WHETHER THEY ARE METAL OR NOT!!!??

I'm serious, it's really getting on my nerves lately. It doesn't matter, since there is a thread about them in the CRforum, that's where we talk about them, it doesn't ****ing matter.
Thank you, they are great. Does anyone know what album Hole in the Sky is on?

boboguitar
11-07-2006, 09:18 AM
my favorite song is paranoid

SteppinRazor
11-07-2006, 10:32 AM
Just to be in with the "it-getters", I too will say that the above user sucks dog lipstick. Sry bud. By the way Dire Straits rule. Hooray my first post

chylde_of_fire
11-07-2006, 02:28 PM
Does anyone know what album Hole in the Sky is on?
Sabotage.

hamett91
11-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Correct me if I'm mistaken, NIB is off of Masters of Reality?

Page&HammettFan
11-07-2006, 02:39 PM
Correct me if I'm mistaken, NIB is off of Masters of Reality?
It's part of the third song on their first album (Black Sabbath, obviously), it plays after the songs Wasp/Behind the Wall of Sleep/Basically. All of that plays through then they do a bass solo then the song.

hamett91
11-07-2006, 02:45 PM
^
Thanks for clearing that up. :)

Page&HammettFan
11-08-2006, 03:03 PM
^
No problem.

Page&HammettFan
11-10-2006, 02:37 PM
Wow no posts in a while eh?

hamett91
11-10-2006, 03:18 PM
It's only been two days...

:stickpoke

Page&HammettFan
11-10-2006, 05:33 PM
On all the other ones I view they usually get one every day.

hamett91
11-10-2006, 05:39 PM
Yeah, things go a little slower here in CR than in the pit. :p:

On Topic: Has Sabbath released any tour/gig/album release dates? I know the album with Dio is getting started...

kshelt76
11-10-2006, 08:42 PM
On all the other ones I view they usually get one every day.


Yeah, if you're going to post here in the CR forum, then you have to be willing to wait a day or two(sometimes more) before someone gets around to answering your question. We don't have as many people in here at all times of the day like the Pit has.

TheHeartbreaker
11-10-2006, 08:52 PM
Yeah, things go a little slower here in CR than in the pit. :p:

It depends mostly on the thread, but yeah, in comparison to the bit, even the most popular threads are much slower.

Page&HammettFan
11-10-2006, 09:42 PM
I didn't know that Sabbath were doing another album, nevertheless with Dio. I know they're on good terms with Ozzy now why not just do one with him?

hamett91
11-10-2006, 09:55 PM
I didn't know that Sabbath were doing another album, nevertheless with Dio. I know they're on good terms with Ozzy now why not just do one with him?They released an album called "The Ozzy Years" and now they're doing one with Dio called "The Dio Years".

EDIT: I think it's just kind of a "Best Of" thing. I do know that Dio is collaborating with Tony. I don't know whether Bill and Geezer are involved, I don't know.

kshelt76
11-11-2006, 12:20 AM
They released an album called "The Ozzy Years" and now they're doing one with Dio called "The Dio Years".

EDIT: I think it's just kind of a "Best Of" thing. I do know that Dio is collaborating with Tony. I don't know whether Bill and Geezer are involved, I don't know.

Yeah, the Dio Years is a best of from Dio's stint with the band. Supposedly, Black Sabbath with Dio is reuniting under the name Heaven and Hell, and I think Bill and Geezer are both going to be in it along with Tony and Ronnie.

hamett91
11-11-2006, 09:34 AM
^
I realized how redundent my last sentance was. :o

TheHeartbreaker
11-11-2006, 09:46 AM
Supposedly, Black Sabbath with Dio is reuniting under the name Heaven and Hell, and I think Bill and Geezer are both going to be in it along with Tony and Ronnie.

Yes, I heard about this. There was something about it on the main page.

Anyways, I'm not the biggest Black Sabbath fan anyways, so if they came by me I probably wouldn't go.

Besides, I'd probably be scared of many of the people there. :(

hamett91
11-11-2006, 09:49 AM
I wouldn't go to a Dio show.

If Sabbath came with Ozzy though...:liplick:

TheHeartbreaker
11-11-2006, 09:54 AM
I feel that Dio is a much stronger vocalist than Ozzy, but "classic Sabbath" has Ozzy in the line-up, so it would be much more fitting.

It'd be like Led Zeppelin touring without Bonzo.

chylde_of_fire
11-11-2006, 10:14 AM
While I (marginaly) prefer 70's Sabbath over the Dio albums, I'd much rather see them live with Dio these days, seeing as unlike Ozzy, he can still sing like a motherfucker.

Danne55
11-11-2006, 01:34 PM
I wouldn't go to a Dio show.

If Sabbath came with Ozzy though...:liplick:

Absoulutely go to a Dio (solo) show and probably Dio with Sabbath.

on the other hand I would also go to an Ozzy 8solo or Sabbath) show

Page&HammettFan
11-11-2006, 09:06 PM
I wouldn't go to see them unless it was with Ozzy.

Page&HammettFan
11-14-2006, 10:27 PM
anyone else wanna post here?

flamencogod
11-15-2006, 10:35 AM
yeah, I'm in a black sabbath coverband!

I'm playing drums, that will be interesting 'cause I've always played guitar only in bands.

Mikinzo
11-15-2006, 11:25 AM
Dio can burn in hell lmfao

hardrocker16
11-15-2006, 12:18 PM
Hey I love Sabbath.Matter of fact im wearing a sabbath shirt right now.Lommi is such an amazing guitarist despite losing the tips of his fingers in a childhood accident.Theres no doubt Ozzy was way better than that Dio guy.Rock on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rything Shred
11-15-2006, 02:57 PM
Sabbath is good with some songs but think Ozzys better with his solo career, songs like Bark at the moon blew any thing Sabbath did out of the water.

chylde_of_fire
11-15-2006, 03:15 PM
Dio can burn in hell lmfao
Once YOU have fronted three of the greatest Hard Rock and Heavy Metal bands ever and produced a classic album with each one, then you will be qualified to say that. Until then, shut up.
Hey I love Sabbath.Matter of fact im wearing a sabbath shirt right now.Lommi is such an amazing guitarist despite losing the tips of his fingers in a childhood accident.Theres no doubt Ozzy was way better than that Dio guy.Rock on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lommi? Wow, you must REALLY be as much of a fan as you say, seeing as you can spell his name perfectly and everything. And it was not a childhood accident, it happened just before he started in Sabbath full time.
Have you even heard 'that Dio guy' or are you just one of the 14 year old Ozzy is teh r0x bandwagon jumpers who are too wrapped up in the deluded idea that Ozzy is the god of Heavy Metal to realize that a)Black Sabbath with Ozzy and Dio are on par with each other, b)Heaven and Hell was the best album they produced since Master of Reality or Vol. 4, and c)While Ozzy is now a walking vegetable and $harons bitch and has been musically lost since Randy died (no offense to Zakk), Dio can still actualy sing and produces good music.

Evil_Magician
11-15-2006, 03:48 PM
I got to say that both Ozzy and Dio did justice to Sabbath , but ozzy was the original singer and i think that most of the people like me hear ozzys earie voice when they hear the name Black Sabbath.

devilscruffs14
11-15-2006, 03:58 PM
I disagree, I find that Black Sabbath was/is defienately hard rock, of the classic sort, due to not only the massive amount of blues styling, but other stylings to. Like "Changes" isn't a metal ballad, it's something else. "Never Say Die" and "Supernaut" seem to experiment elsewhere than metal, as many classic rock bands experimented with their sound.

so ou listed 3 examples, yeah im sure that some sabbath songs were classic rock, pop rock etc. but the true essence of sabbath is from songs that hit the hardest like War Pigs, Iron Man, and Into the void (etc). Black sabbath has to be classified as metal because they started the genre, therfore they must be somewhere within that genre, if that makes sense. sure they're not scream-you-head-off metal, but they are metal none the less.

flamencogod
11-16-2006, 03:15 AM
vocally ozzy comes nowhere near dio

but to me ozzy is the ultimate BS vocallist because I got to know them with ozzy on vocals and most of the classic songs are sung by him. But everyone has to agree that dio's voice is much stronger than ozzy's.

Mr_Zakk_Wylde
11-16-2006, 09:30 AM
Once YOU have fronted three of the greatest Hard Rock and Heavy Metal bands ever and produced a classic album with each one, then you will be qualified to say that. Until then, shut up.

Lommi? Wow, you must REALLY be as much of a fan as you say, seeing as you can spell his name perfectly and everything. And it was not a childhood accident, it happened just before he started in Sabbath full time.
Have you even heard 'that Dio guy' or are you just one of the 14 year old Ozzy is teh r0x bandwagon jumpers who are too wrapped up in the deluded idea that Ozzy is the god of Heavy Metal to realize that a)Black Sabbath with Ozzy and Dio are on par with each other, b)Heaven and Hell was the best album they produced since Master of Reality or Vol. 4, and c)While Ozzy is now a walking vegetable and $harons bitch and has been musically lost since Randy died (no offense to Zakk), Dio can still actualy sing and produces good music.

Black Sabbath became defunct as a credible music making force the moment Ozzy was kicked out.

Ozzy has undoubtably and unargueably gone on to bigger and better things with his solo career. He is better known now than he ever was in Black Sabbath and Black Sabbath will never reach the same level of success as Ozzy has with his solo career.

Dio may be able to sing but so what? You dont somebody with a trained voice to make a good band. Not unless you believe what MTV tells us we should do.

For me, Black Sabbath isnt Black Sabbath without the 4 original (or maybe we should say 5) members. Dio stepped in at ground level when Ozzy, Geezer, Bill and Tony had all been there since B5 and just rode out the wave of support that had been created for BS when Ozzy had been at the vocal helm.

hardrocker16
11-16-2006, 09:59 AM
wut ever chylde of fire.im a black sabbath fan,pure and simple.im only 16 but grew up round sabbath and zeppelin,and jeff healey.im not one of those posers u speak of.so f uck off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :headbang:

chylde_of_fire
11-16-2006, 10:33 AM
Black Sabbath became defunct as a credible music making force the moment Ozzy was kicked out.

Ozzy has undoubtably and unargueably gone on to bigger and better things with his solo career. He is better known now than he ever was in Black Sabbath and Black Sabbath will never reach the same level of success as Ozzy has with his solo career.

Dio may be able to sing but so what? You dont somebody with a trained voice to make a good band. Not unless you believe what MTV tells us we should do.

For me, Black Sabbath isnt Black Sabbath without the 4 original (or maybe we should say 5) members. Dio stepped in at ground level when Ozzy, Geezer, Bill and Tony had all been there since B5 and just rode out the wave of support that had been created for BS when Ozzy had been at the vocal helm.
I just feel that when Dio joined they got a new lease of life. I mean, Technical Exctacy and to a lesser extent Never say Die were average, and sounded like an attempt at producing comercialy viable pop-metal, TE especialy. Heaven and Hell was a huge step up from them, IMO, both in terms of music and songwriting. Which is another point - Dio contributed many of his own lyrics, while Ozzy wrote relativley few and mostly just layed down the vocal tracks.
They needed a fresh sound, and thats what Dio gave them.
But meh.
wut ever chylde of fire.im a black sabbath fan,pure and simple.im only 16 but grew up round sabbath and zeppelin,and jeff healey.im not one of those posers u speak of.so f uck off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :headbang:
Untill you can put forward a decent, structured argument like Mr Zakk Wylde, I'm not going to waste my time responding to that any more than I have here.

Danne55
11-16-2006, 10:42 AM
Dio may be able to sing but so what? You dont somebody with a trained voice to make a good band. Not unless you believe what MTV tells us we should do.
Actually most classic rock bands (and hard rock bands, metal bands etc) has singers who has a good trained voice ... I dont think they would manage with a singer who cant sing ...

Nowadays people who doesn't play live (MTV pop etc) dont need to be able to sing since their only goal is to sell CD:s and have their wideos play. If they can't sing you can simply change the voice and fill in when recording it.

Mr_Zakk_Wylde
11-16-2006, 03:56 PM
I just feel that when Dio joined they got a new lease of life. I mean, Technical Exctacy and to a lesser extent Never say Die were average, and sounded like an attempt at producing comercialy viable pop-metal, TE especialy. Heaven and Hell was a huge step up from them, IMO, both in terms of music and songwriting. Which is another point - Dio contributed many of his own lyrics, while Ozzy wrote relativley few and mostly just layed down the vocal tracks.
They needed a fresh sound, and thats what Dio gave them.
But meh.

Untill you can put forward a decent, structured argument like Mr Zakk Wylde, I'm not going to waste my time responding to that any more than I have here.
True with the last two albums, but i think from all what i've read and heard about Black Sabbath, at that stage the whole band was in a rut, their musical success had taken a toll on them, with the amount of money they now had, the drugs and alchohol effected them all but Ozzy to a greater extent maybe than the others.

Going Solo gave Ozzy's career the boost that he wouldnt have gotten, he, and the rest of black sabbath would have most likely gone in a destructive spiral until they became just a footnote on musical history, but by going it alone, Ozzy got new fame and so did Black Sabbath so that they are very much still a name to be recognised.

chylde_of_fire
11-16-2006, 04:35 PM
True with the last two albums, but i think from all what i've read and heard about Black Sabbath, at that stage the whole band was in a rut, their musical success had taken a toll on them, with the amount of money they now had, the drugs and alchohol effected them all but Ozzy to a greater extent maybe than the others.

Going Solo gave Ozzy's career the boost that he wouldnt have gotten, he, and the rest of black sabbath would have most likely gone in a destructive spiral until they became just a footnote on musical history, but by going it alone, Ozzy got new fame and so did Black Sabbath so that they are very much still a name to be recognised.
I agree with you on those points, but I do feel that Dio had a very large part in helping Sabbath out of their late 70's rut.
Ah well. I still and always will adore all incarnations of Sabbath.

Page&HammettFan
11-16-2006, 10:20 PM
Dude Ozzy can still sing his freakin ass off. Watch the DVD "The Last Supper", he sounds almost exactly like he did in the studio.

Danne55
11-17-2006, 12:09 PM
I agree with you on those points, but I do feel that Dio had a very large part in helping Sabbath out of their late 70's rut.
Ah well. I still and always will adore all incarnations of Sabbath.

I totally agree with you there ;)

CanCan
11-17-2006, 12:20 PM
Ah well. I still and always will adore all incarnations of Sabbath.
I second that

Brakus
11-17-2006, 03:21 PM
favourites. but Rhoads was way better than Iommi in my opinion.

Page&HammettFan
11-18-2006, 03:10 AM
^
It depends on what you're talking about. They were COMPLETELY different styles. And really it doesn't matter who is "better". they are both gods and have permanently established themselves in Rock History.

chylde_of_fire
11-18-2006, 02:55 PM
Randy was better in terms of technical skill, but NO-ONE can pull out a skull-crushingly heavy riff in the way that Tony can.

Page&HammettFan
11-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Yea, Randy was a god, but it just depends on what area you're speaking of. He is very much so better technically. But as I have stated, they were both amazing.

Page&HammettFan
11-24-2006, 02:45 AM
I guess that all of the people on this site no longer care about the gods themselves :confused:?

hamett91
11-24-2006, 11:03 PM
Uh.....


War Pigs! I can't stop listening to it! :liplick:

Page&HammettFan
11-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Uh.....


War Pigs! I can't stop listening to it! :liplick:
Yea, yea, my favorite two songs on there are probably Hand of Doom and
Fairies Wear Boots. Sheer brilliance.

hamett91
11-24-2006, 11:49 PM
Actually, Hole in the Sky is my favorite song right now.

toolfan_121
11-24-2006, 11:51 PM
I like playing War Pigs on guitar hero. It's cool. Love that song.

Page&HammettFan
11-25-2006, 12:12 AM
Actually, Hole in the Sky is my favorite song right now.
I just said from Paranoid. I've never had the pleasure of hearing 'Hole in the Sky' in the studio, or from them at all for that matter. I've only heard it from when Metallica did it to induct them into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame :headbang:!!!!
Which I'll post for all of you ;) (along with the followed song, Iron Man).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Iidj_6ehQ


Continues to :headbang:

hamett91
11-25-2006, 12:19 AM
I just said from Paranoid. I've never had the pleasure of hearing 'Hole in the Sky' in the studio, or from them at all for that matter. I've only heard it from when Metallica did it to induct them into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame :headbang:!!!!
Which I'll post for all of you ;) (along with the followed song, Iron Man).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3Iidj_6ehQ


Continues to :headbang:
Well from Paranoid, War Pigs.

Pantera also does a cover of Hole in the Sky. The Sabbath version is by far the best though, definately listen to it.

Page&HammettFan
11-25-2006, 12:35 AM
I can't download right now :(. I only use Windows Media and in all of their gayness you can't download anymore. Plus I'm not much of a Pantera fan.

hamett91
11-25-2006, 12:39 AM
Do you have AIM?

Page&HammettFan
11-25-2006, 04:43 AM
^
No I can't get it on this computer, I'm sure that youtube has Pantera doing the song. I know they have Sabbath in the 70's.

smb
11-25-2006, 05:19 AM
C'mon then... what's your favourite Sabbath song at the moment?

Symptom of the Universe

Bloody Headache
11-25-2006, 06:49 AM
Dirty Women- Great soloing.

hamett91
11-25-2006, 10:52 AM
C'mon then... what's your favourite Sabbath song at the moment?

Symptom of the Universe
Hole in the Sky.

aL13
11-25-2006, 11:03 AM
do you guys agree that Sabbath started Nu Metal, if so, why?

hamett91
11-25-2006, 11:20 AM
Sabbath started all metal.

Page&HammettFan
11-25-2006, 03:19 PM
^
Very true. My favorite song was probably N.I.B or The Wizard or one of those really good classic bluesy songs of theirs. That or else Lord of This World of Into the Void. Those are all great songs. Who was Dirty Women with, Dio or Ozzy?

TheUltimateSin
11-25-2006, 03:46 PM
C'mon then... what's your favourite Sabbath song at the moment?

Right now? Probably Children of the Grave. I love that solo.

krymson
11-25-2006, 07:41 PM
Favourite song at the moment is definitly wasp/wall of sleep/bassicaly/NIB

chylde_of_fire
11-25-2006, 09:07 PM
^
Who was Dirty Women with, Dio or Ozzy?
Ozzy. The last really good song he sang on with them, imo.
As for favorite song at the moment, probably Sign of the Southern Cross or Behind the Wall of Sleep. But in general, anything off Master of Reality tends to give me a musical boner. Into the Void ftw.

BlueOyster23
11-25-2006, 11:48 PM
Actually, Hole in the Sky is my favorite song right now.

Yeah, it's pretty awesome, but it seems like it was thrown together really fast, due to the opening and then the sudden cut off at about 4 min. into it.

Page&HammettFan
11-26-2006, 02:05 AM
The opening is pretty awesome, the whole song is. I've only heard Metallica do it but it was awesome.

HillcrestAvenue
11-26-2006, 02:18 AM
my favorite song is NIB or Evil Woman

smb
11-26-2006, 04:56 AM
The opening is pretty awesome, the whole song is. I've only heard Metallica do it but it was awesome.
Metallica murdered it. Sabbath play it so much better.

Page&HammettFan
11-26-2006, 03:04 PM
^
I enjoyed it, I wasn't listenin to James sing it, I thought they did a decent job. But of course, Sabbath will do a better job, is that some kind of surprise?

hamett91
11-30-2006, 05:08 PM
^banz0red lol


Yeah, it's pretty awesome, but it seems like it was thrown together really fast, due to the opening and then the sudden cut off at about 4 min. into it.
I thought that cut off was because I didn't get the whole song. That's wierd.

Anyway, Check this out, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXhfrbncab4) it's funny. :)

mortiis999
12-01-2006, 09:40 AM
For your delictation: Cannibal Corpse do "Zero the Hero", I think this is really good, blows the 'Tallica "Hole in the Sky" out of the water.

Canibal Corpse "Zero the Hero" (Sabbath cover) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYZoI2d-aOw)

DieN
12-01-2006, 04:22 PM
http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ConcertDetail.aspx?id=20049642|745
AWESOME BS bootleg from 75. (listening only...you even have to register. BUT it's easy and worth it. That site is just awesome. One of the best bootlegs I've ever heard (in terms of quality and feeling)

Bocob
12-02-2006, 04:37 AM
Ozzy owns all.

DownInAHole.
12-02-2006, 11:37 AM
He owns me......

lexhibit
12-02-2006, 01:26 PM
WHy is it every time I play Vol. 4 it is the ultimate Sabbath album and the original 4 at their peak, it is ruined by the song Changes, I cringe everytime I hear that song with the piano part sounding like a 4 year old child composed it. I wonder if they trying to cash in on the early 70's power ballad and make some cha-ching/do-re-mi to support their Coke habit.

DieN
12-02-2006, 02:04 PM
I like it. One of their better "quiet songs", imo.

chylde_of_fire
12-02-2006, 02:09 PM
Planet Caravan and Solitude > Changes.

DieN
12-02-2006, 02:52 PM
Actually the quiet Black Sabbath instrumentals don't give me anything. I always skip them. Changes is different. It's just a nice little song with a beautiful melody.
The ultimate Sabbath albums would be Paranoid and SBS.

BlueOyster23
12-02-2006, 02:58 PM
^banz0red lol



I thought that cut off was because I didn't get the whole song. That's wierd.

Anyway, Check this out, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXhfrbncab4) it's funny. :)

Great cartoon, f***in' hilarious!

krymson
12-02-2006, 11:17 PM
Actually the quiet Black Sabbath instrumentals don't give me anything. I always skip them. Changes is different. It's just a nice little song with a beautiful melody.
The ultimate Sabbath albums would be Paranoid and SBS.

Yeah, they can be kinda of boring, but I do like Orchid...because it's only a minute and a half lol. Fluff is boring as hell though.

smb
12-03-2006, 06:32 AM
Yeah, they can be kinda of boring, but I do like Orchid...because it's only a minute and a half lol. Fluff is boring as hell though.
Man, you guys don't understand at all...

Listen to Master of Reality through and it's really obvious why the instrumental interludes are there. Lord of this World and Children of the Grave have so much more impact following Orchid and Embryo than they would it they followed straight on from a heavy song. That's something metal bands today have completely forgotten.

I'm not a fan of Changes of Solitude, but Planet Caravan and Fluff are amazing.

chylde_of_fire
12-03-2006, 06:58 AM
Bill Ward is no longer going to be a part of Heaven and Hell, Vinnie Appice will be drumming instead.
Can't complain really, Vinnie was on 2/3 of the albums with Dio, and as long as Geezer and Tony are there, I'll be happy.

smb
12-03-2006, 07:13 AM
Bill has had serious health issues in the last ten years of on and off touring - I'm not surprised about this.

DieN
12-03-2006, 09:14 AM
Man, you guys don't understand at all...

Listen to Master of Reality through and it's really obvious why the instrumental interludes are there. Lord of this World and Children of the Grave have so much more impact following Orchid and Embryo than they would it they followed straight on from a heavy song. That's something metal bands today have completely forgotten.

I'm not a fan of Changes of Solitude, but Planet Caravan and Fluff are amazing.
Of course I know about the purpose of those songs. If if they're as short as the song before CotG it is fine. I still think they are a little boring.

TwistedLogic
12-03-2006, 10:37 AM
Sabbath is good with some songs but think Ozzys better with his solo career, songs like Bark at the moon blew any thing Sabbath did out of the water.


Wow, are you absolutely crazy!! The song bark at the moon is a really lame version of crazy train if you ask me. Listen to the strumming pattern in the verses of both songs and you will hear the similar 1-1,2,3 / 1-1,2,3 / pattern reversed ( if you get my drift) Check the tabs and you will see what I mean.

Sabbath's material, especially the first five albums, were brillaint blend of blues and distortion that created.......METAL. Alright so it is not metal compated to Pantera or slayer but at the time there was nothing like it out there. Tony Iommi himself on hte dvd "the last supper" classifies the band as hard rock, which is probably the case now. The interesting thing about Sabbath for me is that although I find most songs very easy to play they have a great feel and bring out intensity. Listen to the main riff in "Sabbath bloody Sabbath," a very mean riff if you ask me. Play that with a littlle distortion and heavy attack and its awesome.

As far as Ozzy's concerned, his solo career is pretty forgetable except for his self titled debut, diary of a madman and no more tears. Aside from that he has not released too many good songs, not to mention how he sold out and went along with the hair metal fashion of the mid 1980's. Look at some of those pictures with out puking, just try.

What is my favorite Sabbath song at the moment? Snowblind because Imy father was an alcoholic who lost his battle with the bottle. Rings true for me " The sun no longer sets me free," is a very powerful line in the soft interlude part, makes me think of how he must have felt.

krymson
12-03-2006, 12:49 PM
Man, you guys don't understand at all...

Listen to Master of Reality through and it's really obvious why the instrumental interludes are there. Lord of this World and Children of the Grave have so much more impact following Orchid and Embryo than they would it they followed straight on from a heavy song. That's something metal bands today have completely forgotten.

I'm not a fan of Changes of Solitude, but Planet Caravan and Fluff are amazing.
Wtf? **** you I understand, I just don't like Fluff.

I agreed with everything, except the Solitude and Fluff parts.

...Embryo is the best song ever made :p:

get-born
12-03-2006, 03:39 PM
I really don't like Embryo. Too short.

BlueOyster23
12-03-2006, 04:56 PM
This is something I've noticed(it's off topic too!)...

In "N.I.B.," right after the first time Ozzy sings "Your love to me has just got to be real..," you can hear someone(mabe Ward?) 'shouting' "What?" Kind of weird.

krymson
12-03-2006, 07:48 PM
Yeah I've noticed things like that in a few songs, there's a noice in the background of Iron Man but I'm too lasy to go and check where lol

Muddy_Banks
12-03-2006, 08:24 PM
Your parents should take away computers from you. I guess that's what happens when bunch of high schoolers try to be smart too hard.

Muddy_Banks
12-03-2006, 08:27 PM
But i'm glad it all got better at the end.

-aside from that-

"The song bark at the moon is a really lame version of crazy train if you ask me."

I AGREE

get-born
12-03-2006, 10:50 PM
My favorite Sabbath song? It would have to be either of the long medleys on the self-titled debut. They are bluesy, yet evil sounding, and it creates a scary intense image in my mind. I love Sabbath, and for them to write songs about death and doom and the peak of the flower power era is crazy...

daytripper75
12-04-2006, 11:59 AM
i love Sabbath. they were one of the first bands that i really got into. needless to say, i saw Ozzy at Ozzfest in August, and he was pretty sad. oh well.

hamett91
12-04-2006, 05:18 PM
Bill Ward is no longer going to be a part of Heaven and Hell, Vinnie Appice will be drumming instead.
Can't complain really, Vinnie was on 2/3 of the albums with Dio, and as long as Geezer and Tony are there, I'll be happy.
Honestly, I won't be happy until it's the original lineup. I dislike Dio's work with Sabbath, although I like most of his solo work. I guess I just dislike lineup changes. :o

chylde_of_fire
12-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Honestly, I won't be happy until it's the original lineup. I dislike Dio's work with Sabbath, although I like most of his solo work. I guess I just dislike lineup changes. :o
The original lineup are doing an album/tour next year.
I still really don't get how people can dislike the Dio albums. :confused: Could someone explain exactly what they find about them to be at fault?

hamett91
12-04-2006, 06:17 PM
The original lineup are doing an album/tour next year.
I still really don't get how people can dislike the Dio albums. :confused: Could someone explain exactly what they find about them to be at fault?
I like Dio's solo albums, just not his Sabbath work. Like I said, I'm biased.

krymson
12-04-2006, 09:15 PM
The original lineup are doing an album/tour next year.
I still really don't get how people can dislike the Dio albums. :confused: Could someone explain exactly what they find about them to be at fault?

Seriously? Ozzy and all? So it's not too late for me to see them!

Demonbreed
12-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Shouldnt this be moved to the metal forum?
Never in my existance have i classed Black Sabbath as Classic Rock.

DieN
12-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Black Sabbath's roots are clearly blues and hard-rock. They made rock that became metal so what's the problem ;)

lexhibit
12-06-2006, 06:07 PM
Black Sabbath's roots are clearly blues and hard-rock. They made rock that became metal so what's the problem ;)

I agree,
In my opinion, I classify Metal as Maiden, Ozzy, Priest. As the guitars had more "chain saw metal" distortion. I classify Sabbath as sludgy Hard Rock with "warmer/hard-rock bloozy/darker" distortion.

rock_and_blues
12-06-2006, 06:36 PM
So, heres a question I pose for all the Sabbath fans:

What do you guys think of the new bands out there who sound very similar to Sabbath?
You guys know the bands I'm talking about...Wolfmother...The Sword...Witch...etc. Do you guys think that they're terrible clones who'd be better off doing covers, or think they're carrying on the tradition of what good, hard and heavy rock n roll should sound like? Personally I think it's the latter, but I'd like to hear your guys opinons.

krymson
12-06-2006, 06:55 PM
So, heres a question I pose for all the Sabbath fans:

What do you guys think of the new bands out there who sound very similar to Sabbath?
You guys know the bands I'm talking about...Wolfmother...The Sword...Witch...etc. Do you guys think that they're terrible clones who'd be better off doing covers, or think they're carrying on the tradition of what good, hard and heavy rock n roll should sound like? Personally I think it's the latter, but I'd like to hear your guys opinons.

Really I don't mind, they may not be the most original bands but atleast they're doing something different from what you normally hear today from new bands.

chylde_of_fire
12-06-2006, 07:03 PM
Shouldnt this be moved to the metal forum?
Never in my existance have i classed Black Sabbath as Classic Rock.
This has been discussed to death, they can be considered both and therefore can go in either forum.

So, heres a question I pose for all the Sabbath fans:

What do you guys think of the new bands out there who sound very similar to Sabbath?
You guys know the bands I'm talking about...Wolfmother...The Sword...Witch...etc. Do you guys think that they're terrible clones who'd be better off doing covers, or think they're carrying on the tradition of what good, hard and heavy rock n roll should sound like? Personally I think it's the latter, but I'd like to hear your guys opinons.
Wolfmother and The Sword I've never been to keen on, they always seemed over hyped. Witch are a great band.
For Sabbath-esque retro sounding metal, you should check out Witchcraft (who may well be the greatest band to have been formed in the last five years), Burning Saviours, and sHEAVY, to name but a few.
www.myspace.com/witchcraftswe
www.myspace.com/burningsaviours1
www.myspace.com/sheavymetal

krymson
12-06-2006, 07:18 PM
I think whithin the next few years we're going to be getting alot more Sabbath/CR influenced bands because by then all the kids would've nabbed their parents Sabbath cd's, started a band, and started making kickass music.

rock_and_blues
12-06-2006, 07:27 PM
Wolfmother and The Sword I've never been to keen on, they always seemed over hyped. Witch are a great band.

Yea Wolfmother are definetly overrated imo, however I think The Sword is excellent, favorite band to come out of the Retro Rock/Metal genre....and Witch is just below the Sword for me at least.

daytripper75
12-06-2006, 07:31 PM
i just listened to the entire Heaven and Hell album today from start to finish. it made me realize how much i really like Sabbath with Dio.

krymson
12-06-2006, 07:32 PM
I never really liked Dio, I found his voice annoying. But now he old and he's seem to have lost the high end of his voice, and he sounds ****ing badass.

chylde_of_fire
12-06-2006, 07:34 PM
i just listened to the entire Heaven and Hell album today from start to finish. it made me realize how much i really like Sabbath with Dio.
Excelent, we need more Dio love in this thread.
On a side note, I found this video to be quite amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBRyB4GA_GI
If only Ozzy could still sing like that.

Mr_Zakk_Wylde
12-07-2006, 05:44 AM
Wolfmother is just...crap. Them live is just...crap, the singer cant hit the same notes he does on the album...wonder why :rolleyes:

TwistedLogic
12-07-2006, 09:09 AM
I think or hope that bands like Sword and witch are part of a larger trend toward Sabbath style metal and classic rock. It might simply be a shift in tastes after having had more heavily distorted stuff and some experimental stuff. Sometimes simple works and in many ways that was Sabbath. No bull spit, just in your face hard as$ rock. Look at the popularity of the Darkness and Jet in the past couple of years. THat might be a sign that people are being drawn towards solid song writing rather than speed and gimmicks.

daytripper75
12-07-2006, 01:39 PM
Excelent, we need more Dio love in this thread.
On a side note, I found this video to be quite amazing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBRyB4GA_GI
If only Ozzy could still sing like that.


hell yeah! dio is great.

i know, ozzy sounds terrible these days. i saw him in August at Ozzfest, and i just felt bad for him. his voice was pretty off for most of the songs, and he kept forgetting the lyrics to suicide solution. im still glad i was able to see him though.

chylde_of_fire
12-07-2006, 03:06 PM
http://www.geezerbutler.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=167&g2_serialNumber=2
Billy Connelly

http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1070127335886_2003/12/01/billyconnolly,0.jpg
Geezer Butler

Separated at birth?

Mr_Zakk_Wylde
12-07-2006, 10:16 PM
http://www.geezerbutler.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=167&g2_serialNumber=2
Billy Connelly

http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1070127335886_2003/12/01/billyconnolly,0.jpg
Geezer Butler

Separated at birth?
Nice :peace:

daytripper75
12-08-2006, 02:10 AM
they do look similar.

chylde_of_fire
12-14-2006, 07:30 PM
I found this.
www.myspace.com/earththeband
Pre-Sabbath material, when they were still Earth.

MartiniKiss7
12-16-2006, 02:00 PM
Black sabbath is awesome

TheUltimateSin
12-16-2006, 02:22 PM
Shouldnt this be moved to the metal forum?
Never in my existance have i classed Black Sabbath as Classic Rock.

Guess what? On this site, the Mods allow them to be discussed in both the Metal forum and the Classic Rock forum. Deal with it :)

Wow, are you absolutely crazy!! The song bark at the moon is a really lame version of crazy train if you ask me.

Well considering that Randy was a huge influence on Jake it's not surprising that he would write similar-sounding riffs now is it? ;)

hamett91
12-16-2006, 10:38 PM
Well considering that Randy was a huge influence on Jake it's not surprising that he would write similar-sounding riffs now is it? ;)
Tony> Both of them. ;)

No offense intended of course. They're all great.

TheUltimateSin
12-17-2006, 04:03 AM
Tony> Both of them. ;)

No offense intended of course. They're all great.

Well, you are of course entitled to your opinion. I just prefer Randy's classical approach to music. Tony could write some amazing riffs though. It's all good though. :)

TwistedLogic
12-17-2006, 08:32 AM
Who was better? Randy, Tony, Jake, Zack. I agree with the above poster that their styles are all somewhat different. Tony Iommi wrote the best riffs but I think that overall composions Randy wrote better full bodied songs, I like Randy's neo classical approach also since I am huge Blackmore fan.

get-born
12-17-2006, 11:18 AM
Randy was the best guitarist Ozzy ever had without question. On a technical level no other Ozzy guitarist could touch him. They were all great, I love Zakk, and Tony, but Jake was a flashy Randy rip-off, but still awesome.

chylde_of_fire
12-17-2006, 11:35 AM
Randy was the best guitarist Ozzy ever had without question. On a technical level no other Ozzy guitarist could touch him. They were all great, I love Zakk, and Tony, but Jake was a flashy Randy rip-off, but still awesome.
Tony was never Ozzy's guitarist. Ozzy was Tony's singer.

TheUltimateSin
12-17-2006, 01:07 PM
Who was better? Randy, Tony, Jake, Zack. I agree with the above poster that their styles are all somewhat different. Tony Iommi wrote the best riffs but I think that overall composions Randy wrote better full bodied songs, I like Randy's neo classical approach also since I am huge Blackmore fan.

It's not a matter of "who is better", because they were all "better" in their own way. But, as I said, I am much more drawn to the way Randy incorperated classical stylings into his music. And it's nice to see another neoclassical fan :)

but Jake was a flashy Randy rip-off, but still awesome.Once again, Jake was not a "Randy rip-off". Randy was a huge influence on Jake's playing. Obviously his playing will reflect this ;)

TwistedLogic
12-17-2006, 01:35 PM
Ya know, Jake E Lee was not that bad a guitar player. He was flashy in part because he arrived in Ozzy's band just when hair metal was really taking off. Ozzy bought into the craze as much as anybody; just check out some pictures from the times. HORRIBLE!!!!

I bought a copy of the debut album Jake E Lee did with the band Badlands and it was pretty good. He suffers from having followed Randy and being Ozzy's guitarist during what I consider his weakest career period; the mid 1980's. The Ultimate Sin, No Rest for the Wicked are not very good to me. Partly due to Jake E Lee's song writing? Possible. But Ozzy just did not have it in that era imo.

TheUltimateSin
12-17-2006, 01:51 PM
^I would agree that Jake is a very good guitarist. I personally like most of his work with Ozzy :(

krymson
12-17-2006, 07:59 PM
I heard Bassically/NIB on the radio today, I just about shit my pants because the last 27 Black Sabbath songs I've heard on the radio have been Paranoid.

The Arch-Mage
12-17-2006, 08:04 PM
No one around where I live plays Sabbath so you're still more fortunate than I.

krymson
12-17-2006, 08:18 PM
No one around where I live plays Sabbath so you're still more fortunate than I.

Damn, not even Paranoid? I hear that song along with Crazy Train almost once a week.

TheHeartbreaker
12-17-2006, 09:05 PM
I love the introduction to Paranoid.

It's amazing when the bass and drums come in. Oh God, it's beautiful.

So simple, but awesome.

krymson
12-17-2006, 09:13 PM
I agree, definitly one of my favourite sabbath songs, just wish it wasn't overplayed so much. So I heard that they're reforming with the original line-up to make a new album in 07', so I guess this will be the first album with ozzy in more then 20 years? What do you think it'll be like? I'm hoping something more like Master of Reality, and the debut, really ****ing heavy, but still has a really dark atmosphere.

TheHeartbreaker
12-17-2006, 09:25 PM
To be honest, the only Black Sabbath album I own is their debut, and I've only heard a few other songs from other ones, so I can't really tell you what I hope it will be like.

daytripper75
12-18-2006, 03:03 AM
IF it happens, i dont think it will be anything amazing. as much as i love ozzy, and everything he's done, he just doesnt have it anymore.

TheUltimateSin
12-18-2006, 03:52 AM
I love the introduction to Paranoid.

It's amazing when the bass and drums come in. Oh God, it's beautiful.

So simple, but awesome.

I agree completely. It's so........:D

chylde_of_fire
12-18-2006, 06:12 AM
If they do another album, Dio should be the singer. If they got Ozzy to do it now in his current state he would just make a mess of it.

And am I the only person who doesn't get all the fuss about the song Paranoid? :confused: It's probably my least favorite song on that album.