jazz guitar anyone?


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Guitarded8988
12-29-2006, 10:47 PM
is there a jazz interest on UG anywhere. I am a little sad that I can find 30 versions of blvd of broken dreams, but no george benson tabs. Jazz guitar is a genre that is underappreciated, if I wrote an article what would be the best route?

Ideas:

1) Talk about Wes
2) Talk about Wes and a few other important/ badass jazz guitarists
3) Talk about Jazz theory
4) Talk about history of jazz (nevermind too much research)
5) Talk about the genre

ouchies
12-29-2006, 10:55 PM
There are no jazz tabs because learning jazz in tab is stupid

thepagesaretorn
12-29-2006, 11:05 PM
how can learning jazz in tab be stupid? voicings are very necessary, and although obviously lead sheets arent in tab, if i were to try and learn something by, say, joe pass or jim hall or pat martino, that shit's hard to learn man. Whenever im transcribing songs by ear, i try and use Guitar Pro cuz after i input the notes, i can mess w/ the tabs underneath it just to get a gist of how i should voice everything. Sometimes one voicing is harder to transition to the next as another voicing would be easier.

and besides, the threadstarter didnt even say anything about jazz tabs. It's perfectly easy to describe jazz theory with simple text. The only thing that'd be hard to describe is swing, but that's obvious. lol

TrigFunction
12-30-2006, 02:22 AM
meh, to me, jazz is all about improvization.

DJaye
12-30-2006, 02:33 AM
I would like to see how you could translate triplets and 16th's in TAB.

TAB is equivalent to paint by numbers, you end up with a picture, but get no great detail.

If you are serious about Jazz, learn to read music (and improvise). Simple as that.

thepagesaretorn
12-30-2006, 05:00 AM
if all jazz is to you is improvisation, you'll only getting half the story. Being able to play heads and comping is necessary.

[to DJaye] tabbing specific rhythms is quite simple. If you've ever seen the ASCII version of tablature that Guitar Pro can do, u can see how it's like. pretty much u specify how long notes are in tabs by using symbols in the margins above and below the tab staff. It's obviously not as effective, but it's quite easy to do. You can get quite a lot of detail with tab, all you have to do is be creative.

For measures, just put a break line using " | " straight through the staff

For quarter notes, use Q at the top or bottom, for half notes use H, for whole notes use W, an E for an eighth note, a S for a sixteenth note. You can also make up some symbol for dotted notes. all of this can be specified w/ a key at the top or bottom of the tab.

For triplets, you could specify three notes in the tab by going |--3--| above or below it, same for any other type of tuplet.

if you ever have bought a jazz book that teaches a specific jazz guitarist's style, you'll notice that they have tabs right under the regular treble clef because of voicing confusion. I have a few, namely a Wes Montgomery book, a Pat Martino book, and a Steve Kahn book, and they all have tabs underneath, and all it does is help w/ where i put my fingers.

Jearl
12-30-2006, 11:19 AM
well, the progression should be set and improvising is very important, but not the whole thing. i think its stupid to cover songs in jazz.

to each his own i guess, but why would i want to learn a song that somebody improvised in the first place?

AdamDK
12-30-2006, 11:39 AM
I guess Jazz would be a good idea, I'd definately be interested in learning some Jazz. Jearl - Every band has improvised songs at first - the riffs are all improvised. Everything riff on guitar is improvised.

Guitarded8988
12-30-2006, 01:42 PM
I am not interested in writing out tabs for signature jazz licks or a song for an article. Tabs are extremely useful to a jazz guitarist. I can read music sure, but there are about four or five different ways to play every set of pitches in a jazz lick. Tablature (is its done well) solves this problem because some other person has spent the time to figure it out. Instead of spending the time learning the songs by ear (what I've been doing with a guitar trainer) or buying a fifty dollar book (what ill end up doing), it would be nice if there were a big enough jazz community on here to do some tabs. I would take a request and do one if it were a team effort.

But, back to the article. I'm guessing from these answers that a jazz theory article is the best way to go? Maybe with a couple paragraphs in background?

iHeart_LesPauls
12-30-2006, 02:00 PM
I would like to see how you could translate triplets and 16th's in TAB.

TAB is equivalent to paint by numbers, you end up with a picture, but get no great detail.

If you are serious about Jazz, learn to read music (and improvise). Simple as that.
You can do it (transcribe triplets in) quite easily on Guitar pro and even some programs like power tab (which is free)

Johnljones7443
12-30-2006, 02:01 PM
@guitarded - Tbh, you can't put jazz theory into one article - unless you plan on doing 20+ different chapters on different subjects, and submitting them in one by one as a kind of series of articles. Is that what you mean? Or are you planning on doing an article that just talks/discusses the theory instead of teaches it?

Guitarded8988
12-30-2006, 10:01 PM
Johnljones. Give me some guidance here because its a beast to tackle. I was thinking "Theory for the beginning jazz guitarist", basically discuss basic differences between jazz and other genres. And, since most would probably be interested in the lead, improvisation aspect of jazz guitar that would be the focus. I think that explaining the concept that you don't just have to play in G minor over a progression that's in the key of G minor will be eyeopening to some. I wanted it to be an article but I feel its turning into a lesson

Sir Edwin CBE
12-30-2006, 11:21 PM
Jazz theory please - you can mention examples of artists to listen to aswell in that article. Any sound sample of amidi/actual recording or whatever would be good too.

PickNGrin
12-31-2006, 05:45 PM
i think its stupid to cover songs in jazz.

^^^^^This is the problem, UG has guitarists of all genres and ages, but it is very heavily populated by a young beginner group. Jazz is far too complex and sophisticated for them, so .....they shout it down.

Have you looked through the lessons? Because you will find jazz related articles and lessons. Also there are about 20 George Benson tabs posted, look under "G" for George.

If you are serious about jazz, after you have browsed what UG has to offer, you'll find more support at other websites that more devoted to jazz.

xtremepunk0024
01-01-2007, 07:10 PM
to each his own i guess, but why would i want to learn a song that somebody improvised in the first place?

You know how stupid you sounded there? All music is improvised, then written down. If you write a song, in most cases people don't just give it to you and you can call it your own... When you improv you use the knowledge of theory and structure to build something, weather it be a lick, riff, song, or opera...

Sorry if this sounded mean, I just had to call it out and correct it...

Guitarded8988
01-02-2007, 07:51 PM
thanks PNG, i saw the tabs for benson on here but couldnt find the couple i was looking for. There are a decent amount of wes tabs (about 60 or so). So I hear some people asking for theory, I'll check the lesson forums and see whats been covered first

kirbyrocknroll
01-03-2007, 01:59 AM
I'm starting to get more interested in jazz, so I think an article would be sweet :)

VR2005
01-03-2007, 06:18 PM
If you're gonna make this lesson it'll probably have to be more than 5 pages long and possibly more than one lesson. There is just so much about jazz that confuses people in the beginning. The majority of what you should talk about is heads, comping, the ii-V-I, major artists, the different uses of arps and scales over certain chords (possibly including superimposition), and at the very least the Tritone substitution that's a must for any jazz guitarist to know. Maybe that's too much for even 15 lessons but i'd atleast try to mention everything to give a basic understanding of what is needed as basics for jazz.

Misfits1234
01-05-2007, 07:19 PM
i've seen afew jazz songs on UG, and I just play chords when playing guitar in my schools music class and it works just as well, and less effort on me :devil:

Derigiberble
01-06-2007, 11:58 AM
The reason there's not any articles on Jazz Theory is because there's nobody (and I mean nobody) on the site who's genuinely clued up enough to post such an article. It's far to complicated for us small time guitarists who read tab. It's much more deep rooted than that, and to truly understand it you need to speak to someone (possibly for several weeks straight) who has been playing it for a few decades, and even at that, you'll probably never get round to learning everything.

Johnljones7443
01-06-2007, 02:13 PM
^There's several people I know on this site that are genuinely clued up enough on jazz theory to teach it to anyone's who's willing to learn - most of the guys from MT are qualified to write a whole book on it (Cor, beat, elven etc) - and I'm sure most of the people in MT are more than willing to collaborate.

elvenkindje
01-06-2007, 05:35 PM
The reason there's not any articles on Jazz Theory is because there's nobody (and I mean nobody) on the site who's genuinely clued up enough to post such an article.
You should be dropkicked in the balls for saying such a blatant thing.

The true reason that there's not many articles on Jazz is because it doesn't appeal to the masses here. Most of the people here are mostly in metal or punk (for proof, look at the MT where almost everybody suggests solos by Metallica :( ) and jazz simply doesn't appeal to them.

Guitarded8988
01-06-2007, 07:27 PM
allright, so I've been studying jazz in and out of school for a year now. I have read and completed exercises for two jazz theory books, and take lessons once a week for an hour with a Nashville jazz session player. I think that I know enough jazz theory, background, etc. to contribute an article if its wanted and needed but, I want to write it in a way that will either appeal to the people on UG who want to pick up jazz (some brave souls), or the UGers who know nothing about jazz but would read an article on it (most people). I'm still looking for suggestions but ill start the article under the idea of it being based around the more easily grasped and essential aspects of jazz theory (what I've learned). First I was going to write a couple paragraphs for background and a frame of reference, then conclude with some suggested listening.

I'm still open to suggestions and can change it if I hear something reasonable. Thanks for all the help so far.

Derigiberble
01-07-2007, 09:11 AM
I'm sorry but I truly believe there is nobody on this site who is capable of fully teaching Jazz. But hey, prove me wrong.

justin_fraser
01-07-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm sorry but I truly believe there is nobody on this site who is capable of fully teaching Jazz. But hey, prove me wrong.

Well I have a question for you then sir. Who in this world is fully capable of teaching all that jazz has to offer. Wes?? Scofield?? Davis?? No they cant themselves. You know why, cause jazz is so much more than that. Its jazz, and it branches out to every corner of this earth. There are no limits to how far you can go. The theory out there in jazz is basically everything there ever is to be known. No one can possibly come close.

But, there are a lot of guys on this site that know a lot of crazy shit. Elven, johnljones, etc. If you ever go to the MT forum, you will see what I mean. The guys in that forum are of the smartest guys on UG, and thats quite a bit to say for over 450,000 users. They guys know enough to easily teach guitar of ANY genre to anyone. So give some credit to these guys here, cause they know more than you can ever imagine.

Resiliance
01-07-2007, 02:37 PM
There is still a difference between teaching it and knowing it well. Just thought I'd bring that nuance up.

Derigiberble
01-07-2007, 04:10 PM
Don't anyone take it as a personal attack or anything, I'm just saying that there's so much to it, that there are few people anywhere who could truly teach Jazz in all it's splender.

And don't say they know more than I can imagine, because you have absolutely no idea what i do or don't know. I don't use MT because I find it generally to be full of metalheads, like most of the site, just people asking how to shred. I couldn't personally teach all of Jazz, but I could certainly give it a fair crack.

justin_fraser
01-07-2007, 04:34 PM
There is still a difference between teaching it and knowing it well. Just thought I'd bring that nuance up.

Ahh, very good point. You can be the best at something, but when it comes to teaching it, you can suck.

Guitarded8988
01-13-2007, 10:57 PM
Derigiberble, when I'm done with my rough draft I'll send you a copy and tell me what you think needs to be added. would that satisfy you? Listen, this article is not a comprehensive jazz theory article. In no way do I have the ability, knowledge, and especially time to write such a volume. But, hopefully something useful will come out of it

Derigiberble
01-14-2007, 03:58 PM
Derigiberble, when I'm done with my rough draft I'll send you a copy and tell me what you think needs to be added. would that satisfy you? Listen, this article is not a comprehensive jazz theory article. In no way do I have the ability, knowledge, and especially time to write such a volume. But, hopefully something useful will come out of it

Don't look to me as though I contain almighty pearls of wisdom. I merely made a point, it's not my website.

*chief*
01-14-2007, 04:14 PM
hello there i'm recently learning the caged sequence thing and so im new to talking about all the detailed aspects of music, could you tell what the deal is with jazz, are there jazz scales and lead patterns and stuff, could i get some advice as to who to listen to to get into jazz coz im interested in learning as much as i can coz ive reached a bit of a dead end with learning new stuff as i need to master what i know to move on, so anything new would be welcomed.

bluesrocker101
01-14-2007, 04:23 PM
The true reason that there's not many articles on Jazz is because it doesn't appeal to the masses here. Most of the people here are mostly in metal or punk (for proof, look at the MT where almost everybody suggests solos by Metallica :( ) and jazz simply doesn't appeal to them.

Unfortunately.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/ Excellent site if you want info and lessons on jazz.

mtrilus
01-18-2007, 03:27 PM
I have been teaching jazz guitar for a while, and I play for the American Musical Repertory Ensemble at Purdue University. We play big-band swing era charts, and the combo that I play in plays standards, as well as originals. I have extensive knowledge of chord theory and embellishment (substitution, too) and improvisation. Would anyone benefit from more jazz lessons on here? If so, just post what you would like to see covered, and chances are, I, or someone smarter than me, could give a lesson covering the aforementioned material.

VR2005
01-18-2007, 07:59 PM
Well mtrilus you might want to head over to the Name that Chord Thread in the Musician Talk forum, it's a great place to share knowledge, and luckily it's usually jazz based.

godofthesunn
01-18-2007, 09:39 PM
do it, I want moar

UtBDan
01-19-2007, 12:37 AM
Talk about more than just the jazz gutiarists. John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker and the other greats influenced just as many guitarits as Wes Montgomery did. Its just that Wes was teh only one who influenced Eddie Van Halen... lol

GoodOrEvil
01-19-2007, 07:19 AM
I noticed a lot of you guys said no one would be interested in learning jazz. I would be.

Page&HammettFan
01-23-2007, 05:23 PM
I think that usually really great guitar players understand a little bit of jazz right? Well I wanna be able to play any aspect of music, so I would benefit from an article. That would be great for me.

kirbyrocknroll
01-27-2007, 12:38 PM
I don't know how many people have seen this, but I found this lesson. The writer didn't continue where he/she left off though. Maybe that would be a nice place to start off?

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/music_styles/jazz_lessons_part_1_-_the_beginning.html