Intelligent discussion: Soul of a Shredder


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Outside Octaves
01-14-2007, 08:30 PM
Ok, I did a little searching and couldn’t find any conclusive threads on this one… though I could have missed some as I did it hastily, and kindly point me in the correct direction if I am restarting an old thread. (BTW: I also realize I attempted this in the past with a VERY closed mind, and thus that thread got closed… ironic):



I have in my possession a copy of Steve Vai’s album ‘Passion and Warfare’. Now, realize I’m a fan of music in general, but mostly listen to the likes of Slash, Gun ‘n’ Roses, Jimmy, Jimi, SRV, Muse, etc… I can completely see these artists pouring out their heart and soul through their music. But what I fail to see in an artist like Steve Vai is that soul and emotion. Now, PLEASE REALIZE, I’m NOT bashing them in saying this. I just do not see where the emotion lies, and even more to the point what emotions come through. Can someone into these guys, and Mr. Vai in particular, kindly point me down the correct path of knowledge here? I do realize that they are, but I fail to see where and how it lies within the music. Please provide examples from the Passion and Warefare album please. It's all I have of him. If you need another song, please provide a youtube video.

BTW: Even though I don’t see the emotions and soul of his, and other “shredder’s” music, I do enjoy listening to it. It’s a nice change up. Most of what I listen to consists of nothing but dirty distortion, but this is nice and clean, really quite spectacularly sparkly clean! Not only clean, but it’s through the distortion channels… WOH! Talk about spectacular technique and an endless amount of time spent on the dials trying to get a clean distortion/overdrive!

TinTin8
01-14-2007, 08:33 PM
well im not much a vai fan but
most shredders make words with the guitar
in doing so, they create emotions..

FarewellMemory
01-14-2007, 08:38 PM
I recently saw Vai playing live in the G3 Down Under Tour with Satriani and Petrucci.... Fantastic concert but thats not the point. Steve's performance was nothing short of amazing, he reali did put everything he could into it. From the Passion and Warfare album, i think "For the Love Of God" is a very expressive song. It has a mystical quality, maybe portraying a humans search for meaning. Steve did play this one live, and it was reali something. To add to the mystique, one of the rhythm guitars is a very unusual guitar, indian sounding...not exactly sure what it is.

AngelGC
01-14-2007, 08:41 PM
watch him in live videos. emotions in the fingers, hands, and face. and your ears. maybe your pooper. i dont know. maby its just me.

i used to think the same way of john petrucci. i still liked his music. but once i saw the Sense from New York DVD. it changed that.

Outside Octaves
01-14-2007, 08:58 PM
I've seen him, satch, and petrucci live on that live in Tokyo DVD... He did get a good amount of "guitar face" in there... but what I don't hear (i.e. feel) is the soul or emotion. Hell, it's just dumbfounding to watch, leaves me feeling like I'll just never get there. But like I was asking where is the soul in the sounds and how they combine? To my brain, all I feel is this relentless amount of "beautiful noise" coming through my ears. But nothing stirs in my inner being, like it does when you let SRV have at it. I'm just wondering if maybe if I'm missing something here? :wtf:

I've listened through most of the album thus far after creating the starting thread post...ending through blue powder right now... all that "boinging" at the end.

Anyways... yea, defiantly something going over the head here... err, over the soul

Edit:

I'm sitting here after listening to supposedly one of his greatest albums, and it just sorta... felt like nothing to me. Didn't go anywhere and take me with it... I'm not flying high like after some ozzy, or dusting off the seared parts of my soul after some hendrix... I dunno, mabey the notes are too fast for me to feel it or something?...

Yep, definatly missing something here...

insideac
01-14-2007, 09:49 PM
You can tell if a musician is really expressing an emotion by seeing if he moves his mouth or not. I find that when I solo using a wah, alot of vibrato,andbending or something, I always move my mouth because its so emotional, its the only way I can hope to express it, by trying to mouth out what I want to say. Steve vai does this, as does alot of other shredders. Its not the quantity of notes, its the quality. If there are 10 notes in a section by hendrix that expresses emotion in 8 of them and 2 are filler, or a steve vai section that has 40 and and 38 are emotional, then id say its the same thing. Its just that not everyone can pick up on it because they are either not musicians themselves, or cannot appreciate the music or art.

psychodelia
01-14-2007, 09:50 PM
You can tell if a musician is really expressing an emotion by seeing if he moves his mouth or not.

:haha

Come on, let's be serious.

insideac
01-14-2007, 09:52 PM
:haha

Come on, let's be serious.



Yeah man. If someone is playnig the guitar with a serious face on and doesnt look like he is enjoying it, then what is coming out isnt really emotional, its the same as a robot that can play a sad scale.

Outside Octaves
01-14-2007, 11:06 PM
Uh... Ok... Now I'm really dumbfounded. Just went through Chroma Key's Dead Air for Radios album... blew my infantile brain away with all that's going on, including the soul/emotion factor... hmmm something's afray here... And I just don't see it... Hmmm, anyone else wana try and help? (Thanks for the aid so far, if that is to be taken in any way seriously).

SnowballofDoom
01-14-2007, 11:26 PM
Yeah man. If someone is playnig the guitar with a serious face on and doesnt look like he is enjoying it, then what is coming out isnt really emotional, its the same as a robot that can play a sad scale.

The hell...? What's coming out is MUSIC, regardless of the faces that accompany it.

pavan
01-14-2007, 11:32 PM
I have in my possession a copy of Steve Vai’s album ‘Passion and Warfare’. Now, realize I’m a fan of music in general, but mostly listen to the likes of Slash, Gun ‘n’ Roses, Jimmy, Jimi, SRV, Muse, etc… I can completely see these artists pouring out their heart and soul through their music. But what I fail to see in an artist like Steve Vai is that soul and emotion. Now, PLEASE REALIZE, I’m NOT bashing them in saying this. I just do not see where the emotion lies, and even more to the point what emotions come through. Can someone into these guys, and Mr. Vai in particular, kindly point me down the correct path of knowledge here? I do realize that they are, but I fail to see where and how it lies within the music. Please provide examples from the Passion and Warefare album please. It's all I have of him. If you need another song, please provide a youtube video.


You must be tone deaf. Forget the emotion. There is some expression and lyricism in the guitaring. In a band situation, the lead guitarist has only like 30 seconds to play a solo, and everything is said in that. In a band situation, the lead guitarist has to not only play a solo that compliments the song, but to also to take the song higher/someplace else/provide a climax. In case of solo artists, they have the entire song to themselves, and therefore, it's a different situation for them. Want examples from Passion and Warfare? Listen to For The Love of God. It's a song without words. If you like SRV, you can relate this to some of his intrumentals.

Go ahead everyone, flame me.

Outside Octaves
01-15-2007, 12:29 AM
*Puts on $40 USD Altec Lansing Headset*
*sets For the Love of God on loop in windows media player*
... I'm going to listen to this a few times to see if anything 'l click...


I don't think I'm tone def ;)... I can tell the difference between any 1 note, and that same note bent like 1/4th of a semistep ;). (Thats how much I've payed attention to my guitar :biggrin: )

Hmm...


Hmm... Yea, I'm seeing something here... at least the glimmering silver thread of a ray of hope...
Part of my problem in figuring all this out is that his music starts out soaring, leaving it nowhere to go really... at least this piece in particular... only thing it does really is get faster and change notes a bit :confused: :wtf:
(Note, this is all to my currently green to shread ears)

*************************

Ok... I broke out the 2nd of 3 shread albums I have (Passion and Warfare, Rising Force: Marching out, and Guitars That Rule the World Vol. 1) And well... Malmsteen... that album's shreading really has a soul to it, a vibe... something really driving going on... plus the emotional and soul is reall there... Hmmm... more clues may be unfolding before my very eyes, only to be blind due to ignorence?

Possibly it's cause it has words to express the emotion? I dunno, mabey I'm just to f*cking simple of a person to understand the emotional/soul content of a Vai piece?
that I doubt... as I can take in the "soul" of this malmsteen album... who knows, am I just a simple f*ckup or what? I mean, I only just started listening to music within the past 2-3 years truely. (though I've been messing around with guitar for 4). Mabey that's a part of this problem, I dunno :( .

aeginotu
01-15-2007, 02:04 AM
Well, I'm not particularly familiar with that album.
However the only thing I'll say is that songs do not innately have emotion in them, the song has things like rhythm and melody which we subconsciously interpret as emotions. Honestly if you get nothing from a song, I don't think you can really force yourself to learn to, so much as you can slowly learn to appreciate different qualities.

Outside Octaves
01-15-2007, 02:08 AM
Ok... Yep... I can tell you were really making that simple for me, but can you simplify that a bit more for me? Thanks though...


(I think I'm begining to see why I wasn't good in school...)

It feels like I'm grasping and groaping for something so slippery I just can't grab a hold of it... And is driving me bonkers/up a wall...

And in the way that I work, I won't be able to listen to anything else untill this comes clear, or I fail and just move on eventually in a few days/weeks...

aeginotu
01-15-2007, 02:21 AM
What I'm saying(if you were talking to me), is that a song doesn't have emotion in it. The song has a tempo, a selection of notes inside of it, melodies, licks etc. A song, not being a living being, can't actually have any emotion in it. What an artist does is translate their emotions into tempo's, selections of notes, melodies, licks etc, and what a listener does is translate those things into emotions again. If the listener hears something they do not like, usually it's because they get no emotional response because of the way their brain works.

It all kind of comes down to what you've learned to listen for in a song. You can eventually expand your horizons to enjoy different types of music, but you can't really do it overnight by willing it.

Of course, as with 90%+ of things in music, this is just my opinion.

Outside Octaves
01-15-2007, 02:36 AM
Hmmm... Well, besides the "emotion and soul" what is there to listen for? I guess I'm just only used to listening to blusy pieces and the emotions poured out through them?

aeginotu
01-15-2007, 02:40 AM
I mean that you listen for (X), and when you hear (X) you think of (X) as emotion in a song, whereas someone who despises (X) might hear emotion in (Y) instead.
(X is just a variable standing for some part of music you particularly feel)

flamencogod
01-15-2007, 03:18 AM
of course the first time you listen to the complacated zappa stuff it didn't get me because it was all to new for me... Now I can really enjoy it!

my guess would be: Vai isn't really your thing!

pavan
01-15-2007, 04:04 AM
of course the first time you listen to the complacated zappa stuff it didn't get me because it was all to new for me... Now I can really enjoy it!

my guess would be: Vai isn't really your thing!

yeah, same with me and Allan Holdsworth. Now every night, I just turn the lights off and listen to Sand on headphones. Great stuff.

Prophet of Page
01-15-2007, 05:45 AM
Well firstly, there is no emotional content in music whatsoever. Any emotional stimulation you get from music is purely due to your own personnal tastes and perceptions. There is no correlation between how much a musician cares about what he's playing, and what you'll feel.

I remember first getting PAW and thinking to myself that it wasn't quite as good as everybody made it out to be. But, with time, it really got a firm grip of me. That's all it may take, a little more time.

As for parts of PAW that stir me, listen to The Riddle. After a few minutes, and a build up of rather *cough* suggestive groans, Steve busts into a solo. I get one of those great guitargasms everytime it kicks off. The climax in Blue Powder also has quite an effect on me.

TheUltimateSin
01-15-2007, 10:58 AM
Well firstly, there is no emotional content in music whatsoever. Any emotional stimulation you get from music is purely due to your own personnal tastes and perceptions. There is no correlation between how much a musician cares about what he's playing, and what you'll feel.

I remember first getting PAW and thinking to myself that it wasn't quite as good as everybody made it out to be. But, with time, it really got a firm grip of me. That's all it may take, a little more time.

As for parts of PAW that stir me, listen to The Riddle. After a few minutes, and a build up of rather *cough* suggestive groans, Steve busts into a solo. I get one of those great guitargasms everytime it kicks off. The climax in Blue Powder also has quite an effect on me.

QFT

Especially with the Blue Powder thing. Mmmm.... :liplick:

Resiliance
01-15-2007, 12:37 PM
You can't think you know what "shred" is because you've listened to Yngwie, Petrucci, Vai and Satriani... That's like saying you don't like shirts because you've seen some ugly ones :p:

I'm not a particular fan of any of the staple "shredders", so I think you've just not gone far enough yet.

And yeah, as Tom said, emotion is nowhere in music, it's in you. Wether you allow yourself subconsciously to enjoy it or not is what's making the difference here.

Outside Octaves
01-15-2007, 02:00 PM
uh, I enjoy all forms of music...I don't think any thing is "ugly" here so to speak... and I know I'm green to shred, after all I already mentioned that. I know I have a LONG way to go to get to knowing anything about shred.

See, my main goal in this is to begin to be able to appreciate all forms of music, from classical to shread, rock to emo, heavy metal to death/scream-o-metal...

While I can listen to most anything and find the "beauty" in it, I can't really appreciate it... Like I can't really find this quote unquote "soul and heart" of the music (as stated many times so far).

So it's what I allow myself to feel eh? hmmm...

Here's some questions for ya:

(I know that all music is subjective, and that what one person would hear isn't neccissarily what another should/will hear ;) )

In general, what should I be "listening for" in Mr. Vai's stuff?

I know their's a huge range and it varies from song to song, but I mean... like in blues the general thing you can listen for is something like a searing, soul torching "entity" within the music that moves ya... In Heavy Metal in general it's something that takes you from where you are to soaring highs (or that "endless black cavern" so to speak for the explicitly dark stuff)... In pop you are listening for something "fun and catchy"...

In the peticular case of For the Love of God, what are some specific "things" to listen for?

Again, I know... music is almost entirely, if not entirely what you make of it. But I'm just looking for some ideas to kickstart thing somewhat, now that I'm understanding this a bit better now.

BTW: Thanks for the help so far guys, you are definatly helping towards "musical maturity."

:)

-Outside Octaves

TinTin8
01-15-2007, 02:14 PM
ok, every song in the world is created by musicians. The create the song with their emotions, and how they feel at the time ...
when you hear a song, you may feel happy, or sad etc
well not everyone is able to listen to music and feel something, you need to enjoy the music before you find any emotion
Also, emotion is all personal pref. i could hear a song and think well im very happy, while someone else could listen to it and feel sad

so if you dont feel any emotion in Vai's work ... well who care:D

Outside Octaves
01-15-2007, 02:40 PM
Well, in the end it's only I that cares so much I guess, but still I would like to "further myself" here. Hell, I thing via's stuff is gorgious, I just don't get it really... That's the thing right there... DOH!

I don't get it, what an epiphony. Now here's the real question, what is his music about generally speaking? (I know, music is subjective to the individual.. again, only getting at generalities here ;) .)

TinTin8
01-15-2007, 03:32 PM
i dont listen to vai to much, so i cant help:) ...
but one exanple

John Petcrucci - Glassglow Kiss
- Feels like an irish gig, very happy :)

Prophet of Page
01-15-2007, 04:03 PM
I don't get it, what an epiphony. Now here's the real question, what is his music about generally speaking? (I know, music is subjective to the individual.. again, only getting at generalities here ;) .)

According to himself, his best works have been written about his spirituality. As such, joy, dispair, confusion and a sense of grandour are common themes throughout his work. If you pick up on any of it, then great, if not, then you don't.

He also writes quite alot of music about that special act between men and women, you know, the one all the pop songs are about.

Outside Octaves
01-15-2007, 07:00 PM
Hmm... You know... I've deffinatly picked up on that sence of grandure in his music... hmmm...

U know... all I ever really listen to is soul searing stuff... this "new forey" into other genres again (my last attempt failed misserably, if u recall any of my past threads) is opening up my mind to other things. I'm basicly begining to see that it doesn't have to sear your soul to be an awsome piece of music...

Little Savage
01-15-2007, 07:44 PM
Different songs move different people in different ways. As a few people have said, it's about your perception and how it stirs your inner self.

I have listened to PAW probably more than a 100 times. I bought it when it first came out in 1990. Here's the interesting thing, 'For The Love of God' doesn't particularly move me but 'Answers' and 'I Would Love To' do.

Maybe another Vai album you should get is Alien Love Secrets. My favourite songs on that one are the dark and moody 'Bad Horsie' and the hyped up fun 'Juice'.

Keep listening over a period of time and if it still doesn't click then put on some Hendrix or Beck or something : )

pavan
01-15-2007, 10:38 PM
............ Wether you allow yourself

Finally
Resi has made a spelling mistake
:p:

TheUltimateSin
01-15-2007, 10:57 PM
Finally
Resi has made a spelling mistake
:p:

:haha: quick, take a screenshot and save it before he edit's both yours and his post! :p:

SnowballofDoom
01-15-2007, 11:55 PM
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wether

Uh... Resi? :p:

TheUltimateSin
01-15-2007, 11:58 PM
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wether

Uh... Resi? :p:

*has lmaorgasm*

pavan
01-16-2007, 01:48 AM
While I can listen to most anything and find the "beauty" in it, I can't really appreciate it...


I think you've answered yourself.


Here's some questions for ya:

In general, what should I be "listening for" in Mr. Vai's stuff?

In the peticular case of For the Love of God, what are some specific "things" to listen for?


Read my previous post.

Dayn
01-16-2007, 06:02 AM
When suggesting artists, I always choose Satriani. I've found Vai to be a bit... eclectic, eccentric. It took me a while to warm up to Vai. I don't know what it is... I've just never seen so much of one man's soul put into a sole performance. My answer to you watching the G3 DVD? You're watching a show, not experiencing it. I went to the first G3 show in Brisbane last year; frigging amazing. Awe inspiring. Vai exploded to life.

As other people have said, he's just not your thing, like I can appreciate what goes into Hendrix's work; but I just don't like it. The man loves Evo (his main guitar) and the music he creates; he makes music because he wants to express himself, and it doesn't occur to him whether people will "get it" or not.

So yeah. You can appreciate all that he puts into his work; but you don't have to like it. For example, I can appreciate what Malmsteen puts into his stuff, but I don't like it.

It's the same for any artist, really.

Resiliance
01-16-2007, 06:18 AM
Finally
Resi has made a spelling mistake
:p:

Well, you know, wouldn't want you all to believe I'm some kind of deity or something... That's the entire reason why I did it purposefully. On purpose. Because I meant to. Absolutely. Yes... That's it.

I loves me some castrated r4mZ.

:haha: quick, take a screenshot and save it before he edit's both yours and his post! :p:

edit's?

Outside Octaves
01-16-2007, 09:51 AM
LOLZORGASM! ok, now THAT was funny Resi!

Ok... I guess I got some growing and learning to do then :).

BTW, For the Love of God... woh. He did put a lot of bluesy sorta feel in that, and that I do appreciate myself. Good stuff... yea, good stuff, wierd, but good... yea...uh... hmm...

bluespunkmetal
01-16-2007, 11:18 AM
I only like Tender Surrender......

Anyway, who is on your playlist of shred tunes, Resi ??

TheUltimateSin
01-16-2007, 11:44 AM
edit's?

*cough* Yes...well..er.....I'll just be shutting up now..

Dirk Gently
01-16-2007, 12:06 PM
LOLZORGASM! ok, now THAT was funny Resi!

Ok... I guess I got some growing and learning to do then :).

BTW, For the Love of God... woh. He did put a lot of bluesy sorta feel in that, and that I do appreciate myself. Good stuff... yea, good stuff, wierd, but good... yea...uh... hmm...
I thought it interesting that you'd pick Vai. For me, Vai is one of the most emotive "shredders." A great Vai album is "The 7th Song," which is a compilation of the 7th songs from all of his albums (up to that point, of course). Vai always makes the 7th song on each album a sort of instrumental power ballad.

Now, if you chose to talk about the lack of soul in Shawn Lane or M. A. "The Shredding Sheepdog" Batio, I'd jump right on that bandwagon.

Resiliance
01-16-2007, 12:32 PM
I only like Tender Surrender......

Anyway, who is on your playlist of shred tunes, Resi ??

That's too broad a question for me to answer on a forum... I could make a list but it'd take hours on end and it'd be outdated already tomorrow.

Freepower
01-16-2007, 01:47 PM
I dunno, mabey I'm just to f*cking simple of a person to understand the emotional/soul content of a Vai piece?
that I doubt... as I can take in the "soul" of this malmsteen album... who knows, am I just a simple f*ckup or what? I mean, I only just started listening to music within the past 2-3 years truely.

Absolutely no offense, but yeh, quite possibly. Like when your mum and dad say "Hey, clear up after yourself!" and you just don't see the point, some things take a simple maturation of the individual.

Hell, I thing via's stuff is gorgious, I just don't get it really...

What if it was beautiful music just because beautiful music is lovely to listen to?

I mean, Grey Pianos Flying (Shawn Lane) isn't about any ****ing pianos, thats fo sho.

You can listen to whatever you like in music. Thats all there is to it.

Yeah man. If someone is playnig the guitar with a serious face on and doesnt look like he is enjoying it, then what is coming out isnt really emotional, its the same as a robot that can play a sad scale.

But if you listened to that sad scale, what would you hear? What about stuff played by computers but written by people? Pah, you speaketh tosh, sirrah.

PooKoo
01-16-2007, 03:56 PM
But if you listened to that sad scale, what would you hear? What about stuff played by computers but written by people? Pah, you speaketh tosh, sirrah.

Like what i do!

Freepower
01-16-2007, 04:14 PM
^ pah, i did it first! (did i?) :p:

paddyo
01-16-2007, 04:37 PM
John Petcrucci - Glassglow Kiss
- Feels like an irish gig
Lol you really haven't ever heard a proper Irish Jig then have you...

tubab0y
01-16-2007, 09:11 PM
I thought it interesting that you'd pick Vai. For me, Vai is one of the most emotive "shredders." A great Vai album is "The 7th Song," which is a compilation of the 7th songs from all of his albums (up to that point, of course). Vai always makes the 7th song on each album a sort of instrumental power ballad.

Now, if you chose to talk about the lack of soul in Shawn Lane or M. A. "The Shredding Sheepdog" Batio, I'd jump right on that bandwagon.
or malmsteen. but yeah, vai has a lot of emotion, but it's not necessarily blow-your-mind-wow-i-feel-empowered type emotion. like the reaper (or reaping, depending on if it's live or studio), which is a tee-hee-hee-i-feel-happy emotion.

Outside Octaves
01-16-2007, 10:40 PM
Hmm... Yea, I'm 20 and still don't pick up after myself enough, lmao... gota get rid of all this trash in the floor and put the sheets back on the bed..... bah... n/m on that last one..... they just end up tossed anyways... ehem..... back on topic:

Yea, maturity...it grows on ya. Unfortunatly It isn't like kudzu... it doesn't grow everywhere :( . LOL.

So yea, at least I'm open minded enough to listen now :). I mean, hell, look at the quote I made up as the first line of my sig :p: .

Godly Moose
01-16-2007, 10:52 PM
No such thing as emotion(Not human emotions), explained many a time, etc.

Night_Lights
01-16-2007, 10:52 PM
if you cant feel, or even hear the emotion in 'For the Love of God', then, i dont know....

insideac
01-16-2007, 10:53 PM
But if you listened to that sad scale, what would you hear? What about stuff played by computers but written by people? Pah, you speaketh tosh, sirrah.



:haha Ive never heard a sadness invoking guitar pro file.

Outside Octaves
01-16-2007, 10:54 PM
u don't know....what?....

Night_Lights
01-16-2007, 11:19 PM
:haha Ive never heard a sadness invoking guitar pro file.


haha, true!

aeginotu
01-16-2007, 11:27 PM
Meh, I haven't really felt deeply saddened by a song since I listened to blues, which now kinda bores me. I think a guitar pro file could be saddening, it'd be tough though.

Resiliance
01-17-2007, 08:20 AM
:haha Ive never heard a sadness invoking guitar pro file.

I have many a time.

bluespunkmetal
01-17-2007, 11:26 AM
^What ??

Anyway, Resi, what about a Mainstream Shredder that suits your taste ??

Freepower
01-17-2007, 02:45 PM
^ He has heard a sadness invoking guitar-pro file, many times in the past.

And for goodness sake resi, this mysterious act is making people interested in your personal tastes. Perhaps i should take it up. :p:

Resiliance
01-17-2007, 03:04 PM
^What ??

Anyway, Resi, what about a Mainstream Shredder that suits your taste ??

Paul Gilbert, Guthrie Govan, Greg Howe, Brett Garsed, ...

^ He has heard a sadness invoking guitar-pro file, many times in the past.

And for goodness sake resi, this mysterious act is making people interested in your personal tastes. Perhaps i should take it up. :p:

How am I being mysterious? I just hate partial information, and would prefer none over that. :)

Freepower
01-17-2007, 03:08 PM
The mysterious act is due to the contrast between everyone else trying to cram some extraneous self-related details into each post, and your weird logical, sensible approach.

Eh. Perhaps you just have less desire for people to like you than the average forumite. :p:

Resiliance
01-17-2007, 03:21 PM
Well, I just realised I could indicate a small portion of my tastes via the last.fm thing... http://www.last.fm/user/resi for anyone who, for some reason, would be interested.

The problem with that is that I don't listen to any one artist too much which makes it a bitch to make statistics out of :p:

johnyprestige
01-19-2007, 12:14 PM
youve got passion and warfare and yet you think he has no emotion? you listen to muse, they just steal classical chord changes and wail nonsense in some squeky falsetto voice. there is so much more to vai than happy or sad emotions if it doesn't push either one of those buttons it doesn't mean it doesn't have any emotion. listen to boston rain melody, for the love of god, whispering a prayer.

Outside Octaves
01-19-2007, 02:55 PM
Hey, this isn't a thread for bashing any musicains! I happen to think Muse is the Pink Floyd of our modern day bands! Nonsence... right. Next you're going to say Pink Floyd made no sence either..... And they steal chord changes? Last I looked, Steve Vai and the rest use classically influenced (stealing if u wana call this stealing) progressions, and changes... even if I am new, I can see it... especially in the likes of those like Malmsteen! And all this BS about them wailing in falsetto... last I checked most artists that go high do this, and a lot of you guys praise them as great artists! Stop SHITEING on anything that's post 80's! GOD! Ever heard of a sound wall?

Either let sleeping beasts lie, or get the f<e>ck out! GRrrr...... this sorta nonsence is just angrying... (Love making up words :p: )! JFYI: The 80's wasn't the end of great music! (Check out Soundgarden, Audioslave, Muse (Yea, actually sit down and listen to the whole album, just like you would a P.F. album, else it won't make as much sence, just like a P.F. song wouldn't make much sence outside of the context of the album! Also, check out some Silvertide, or similar artists... they are AWSOME at making music, each and every one I've listed!

Though these are my personal opinions... NOONE should be closed minded enough to sit there and say ****ed up stuff like that, even if you sit there and list some artists to look like your trying to help.

Now, BOT:

I won't be able to get out till this weekend, so any more suggestions as to artists/albums to check out?

TheUltimateSin
01-19-2007, 03:36 PM
if it doesn't push either one of those buttons it doesn't mean it doesn't have any emotion.

Actually it does, because songs don't/can't have emotion. They just can't. Laws of Physics and Nature prevail here, as well as common sense. They provoke emotion(s), not contain them ;)

I won't be able to get out till this weekend, so any more suggestions as to artists/albums to check out?

Buckethead's Electric Tears is a good one, imo. :)

Outside Octaves
01-19-2007, 04:05 PM
On ol' KFC-head: U know, I saw him on a youtube video once using decapitated head pupets to do his talking for him... I know it's his thing... Plz tell me he keeps those things away from the actual tracks on the album? (It's a great little invention/idea for dealing with the media, but u know... kinda lame anywhere else in my own personal opinion).

TheUltimateSin
01-19-2007, 04:21 PM
On ol' KFC-head: U know, I saw him on a youtube video once using decapitated head pupets to do his talking for him... I know it's his thing... Plz tell me he keeps those things away from the actual tracks on the album? (It's a great little invention/idea for dealing with the media, but u know... kinda lame anywhere else in my own personal opinion).

Using his antics to judge his music in any way is a big no-no :no:

Just get the album and listen to it ;) :)

johnyprestige
01-19-2007, 06:27 PM
Actually it does, because songs don't/can't have emotion. They just can't. Laws of Physics and Nature prevail here, as well as common sense. They provoke emotion(s), not contain them ;)



Buckethead's Electric Tears is a good one, imo. :)
yeah technically but thats being very pedantic,if you were saying that you could say that humans can't have emotions because we're just a bunch of atoms that have been put in the right places so that we feel "self aware" or concious, when really we are just a bunch of atoms and atoms aren't capable of emotion no matter what order they are placed in..... see , they're is no point being pedantic because it makes you sound like a dick.

Resiliance
01-19-2007, 06:36 PM
yeah technically but thats being very pedantic,if you were saying that you could say that humans can't have emotions because we're just a bunch of atoms that have been put in the right places so that we feel "self aware" or concious, when really we are just a bunch of atoms and atoms aren't capable of emotion no matter what order they are placed in..... see , they're is no point being pedantic because it makes you sound like a dick.

Actually... Your example makes no sense and doesn't seem like a valid comparison at all, when there is actually a very important distinction to be made concerning the music not inherently having emotion but provoking it.

johnyprestige
01-19-2007, 06:38 PM
Hey, this isn't a thread for bashing any musicains! I happen to think Muse is the Pink Floyd of our modern day bands! Nonsence... right. Next you're going to say Pink Floyd made no sence either..... And they steal chord changes? Last I looked, Steve Vai and the rest use classically influenced (stealing if u wana call this stealing) progressions, and changes... even if I am new, I can see it... especially in the likes of those like Malmsteen! And all this BS about them wailing in falsetto... last I checked most artists that go high do this, and a lot of you guys praise them as great artists! Stop SHITEING on anything that's post 80's! GOD! Ever heard of a sound wall?

Either let sleeping beasts lie, or get the f<e>ck out! GRrrr...... this sorta nonsence is just angrying... (Love making up words :p: )! JFYI: The 80's wasn't the end of great music! (Check out Soundgarden, Audioslave, Muse (Yea, actually sit down and listen to the whole album, just like you would a P.F. album, else it won't make as much sence, just like a P.F. song wouldn't make much sence outside of the context of the album! Also, check out some Silvertide, or similar artists... they are AWSOME at making music, each and every one I've listed!

Though these are my personal opinions... NOONE should be closed minded enough to sit there and say ****ed up stuff like that, even if you sit there and list some artists to look like your trying to help.

Now, BOT:

I won't be able to get out till this weekend, so any more suggestions as to artists/albums to check out?

its funny how you think ive never heard pink floyd or audioslave or muse, in fact i like all of these bands and just because i said matt bellamy constantly wails in falsetto and steals chord changes it doesn't mean i dont like muse (its just the truth). dont be so hasty to judge people im not try to stir shit.

johnyprestige
01-19-2007, 06:46 PM
Actually... Your example makes no sense and doesn't seem like a valid comparison at all, when there is actually a very important distinction to be made concerning the music not inherently having emotion but provoking it.
my example does make sense you just have to understand what im talking about (im not trying to sound patronising) read bill brysons "the universe a guide to everything" i think thats what its called???, then youll understand what im talking about.

TheUltimateSin
01-19-2007, 07:17 PM
yeah technically but thats being very pedantic,if you were saying that you could say that humans can't have emotions because we're just a bunch of atoms that have been put in the right places so that we feel "self aware" or concious, when really we are just a bunch of atoms and atoms aren't capable of emotion no matter what order they are placed in..... see , they're is no point being pedantic because it makes you sound like a dick.

....Are you mentally retarded? Not trying to sound mean or anything, but I'm serious. Thinking that music can contain emotion, and trying to defend it as truth...I'm worried :(

Resiliance
01-19-2007, 07:27 PM
my example does make sense you just have to understand what im talking about (im not trying to sound patronising) read bill brysons "the universe a guide to everything" i think thats what its called???, then youll understand what im talking about.

It is you who does not understand here, my friend. You're firing blanks.

Godly Moose
01-19-2007, 07:57 PM
yeah technically but thats being very pedantic,if you were saying that you could say that humans can't have emotions because we're just a bunch of atoms that have been put in the right places so that we feel "self aware" or concious, when really we are just a bunch of atoms and atoms aren't capable of emotion no matter what order they are placed in..... see , they're is no point being pedantic because it makes you sound like a dick.

Music is just different sound frequencies played, your brain determines whether what something is too them. That's why one song might be the most saddest song you've ever heard, while the next may think it's rubbish.

Outside Octaves
01-19-2007, 08:05 PM
BTW: Just heard ul' bucket for brains's Padmasana... woh, I'm not that far removed from that in my own style of playing, though he's definatly better technicly and melodicly atm :)... well, that is when I load up on reverb and delay along with sweet gain. (I gota crapy computer program - GuitarFX3 - that I'm using currently every now and then when I absolutely get boared and can think of nothing better at all, as it sounds like shit... but I can tell somewhat I'd sound like through pro effects) All I need is speed practice and more modes and chords :D ).

Now with hearing buckethead... I'm entirly torn between getting Surfing with the Alien, and Electric Tears, and Coma! I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE TO GET!!!!?!?!?!? :lol: . Does ET or Coma have a tab book in production? Does Surfing with the Alien have a tab book?

TheUltimateSin
01-19-2007, 08:08 PM
BTW: Just heard ul' bucket for brains's Padmasana... woh, I'm not that far removed from that in my own style of playing, though he's definatly better technicly and melodicly atm :)... well, that is when I load up on reverb and delay along with sweet gain. (I gota crapy computer program - GuitarFX3 - that I'm using currently every now and then when I absolutely get boared and can think of nothing better at all, as it sounds like shit... but I can tell somewhat I'd sound like through pro effects) All I need is speed practice and more modes and chords :D ).

Go Here (http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=buckethead) and browse his various live shows to dig into some interestingly good material.

Perhaps listen to Night of the Slunk or Nottingham Lace :)

I'd also suggest you get Buckethead's Enter the Chicken album, and maybe even delve into a little(or a lot) of Paul Gilbert :)

Freepower
01-19-2007, 09:03 PM
Steal classical chord changes? :p:

Well, considering we have 400 odd years of diatonic harmony, most of it's been done!

TheUltimateSin
01-19-2007, 09:54 PM
Omg i read first post, got one thing to say, suck a big fat dick mother****er. are you retarded, you cant define how much emotion a shredder has when playing his song. he could love it and have a straight face. Dont talk about shit you donno anything about punk. Now get the **** out of this place, we dont want you.


Ignore this person. He does not represent our forum community in any way.

By the way, Ibanez_RGT, it might have helped if you read the entire thread and not just "the first post", you dumb shit.

Night_Lights
01-19-2007, 10:03 PM
Buckethead's Electric Tears is a good one, imo. :)


not electric tears ffs, get Colma

TheUltimateSin
01-19-2007, 11:27 PM
not electric tears ffs, get Colma

.........yeah or you could do it that way too :o :p:

Outside Octaves
01-20-2007, 01:42 AM
Ignores the Ignorant:

Yes... so which would suit my tastes better given what I've said so far, coma or electric tears? I love blues.. but that ambient thing he did with Padmasana is just endlessly beautiful. Not only that, but not tooo distantly distanced from my own ambient playing :).

TheUltimateSin
01-20-2007, 01:47 AM
I'd get Colma first, to be honest. Night_lights is right. Colma > Electric Tears, by a lot.

paddyo
01-20-2007, 08:27 AM
Steal classical chord changes? :p:

Well, considering we have 400 odd years of diatonic harmony, most of it's been done!
What about diff time signatures? Like I remember you saying how there's millions for 4/4 timing and thats only diatonic.. Isnt that the same if not more for 6/8 or 3/2 etc?



I know you know that, I'm just curious. :p:

Godly Moose
01-20-2007, 12:25 PM
I'd get Colma first, to be honest. Night_lights is right. Colma > Electric Tears, by a lot.

IMO I like ET better.

Outside Octaves
01-20-2007, 05:11 PM
Which one has more pieces geared towards the overal affect of Padmasana?

Godly Moose
01-20-2007, 09:15 PM
Which one has more pieces geared towards the overal affect of Padmasana?

Electric Tears, Colma is different in a pessimistic type of way. Also, Padmasana is from Electric Tears in case you're wondering.

EDIT: We also have a Buckethead thread a couple threads under this one. :)

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345991

Freepower
01-21-2007, 05:14 PM
What about diff time signatures? Like I remember you saying how there's millions for 4/4 timing and thats only diatonic.. Isnt that the same if not more for 6/8 or 3/2 etc?



I know you know that, I'm just curious. :p:

I don't really understand your question, but apparently i already know. Er, more simple way of question putting plx? :p:

paddyo
01-21-2007, 05:42 PM
Reaally doesnt matter and I can't remember what I had in mind at the time...

Apologies. ;)


:p:

Outside Octaves
01-21-2007, 06:41 PM
Well I ended up only being able to get one album...

JOE SATRIANI
SURFING WITH THE ALIEN

And having my first complete listen through right now Just getting into Circles... And as someone put it before (taking some liberties here)... My Satch Cherry was officially poped with the opening of Surfing with the Alien (piece), and has just been one whole guitargasm the whole way through! (Currently 1:10 into Circles and that solo that just came up is blistering! Wow!)

Edit:
________________________________

After having gone through a complete listen through (currently just ending ICE 9 and going into Crushing Day as I type *this*). I can definatly hear/feel the soul of this shredder just billowing out of this album! Every piece has this feeling like I'm sitting down 1 on 1 with Satch for a personal performance and "feeling everything he feels through his playing of the guitar."

I dunno... mabey Vai just doesn't have something like that going on or something? Guess I just have to appreciate Vai's stuff for the beauty that it is :).

Resiliance
01-21-2007, 07:13 PM
Well, I find more "emotion" in Tender Surrender than in any note Satch ever tried to play while he was pushing one down on the toilet incredibly hard... There's nothing goin' on in the music. You're just not ready for the more outlandish Vai stuff yet, imo.

Prophet of Page
01-21-2007, 07:21 PM
I agree with Resi.

I shudder to think what you'd think of Holdsworth just yet...

Outside Octaves
01-21-2007, 07:43 PM
Yeah... I guess I'm just not ready for Mr. Vai when it comes to "feeling him out." I guess it all comes down to current level of audio-maturity of the brain, and the level of experience one has... which mine is VERY little. I still enjoy Vai's stuff as works of art. Hell, most of his stuff is f<e>cking unbelievable. I can't comprehend how he plays, much less came up with, some of those licks... (e.g. The Audience Is Listening via G3: Live in Tokyo), or building the church, or any of the G3 Tokyo stuff for that mater). But I can totally get Satch's stuff right now.

I mainly got Satch's SWTA album to start learning his stuff to expand my chops and musicality! So yea, satch is definatly a bit more subdued at times, especially on this album. I can't wait to start getting my fingers and mind around satch's licks when I get the tab book, if one exists :). But in listening to his stuff, man I totally feel the "vibe of his soul" in this :).

flyingVai
01-21-2007, 09:09 PM
Yea, most people will start off with Satch or Vai. I remember I got two of their albums and a Vinnie Moore one a while back and loved them. I checked out some Allan Holdsworth a little later on, and really just didn't get it. Now as my playing has expanded as well as my musical inspirations, I tried Holdsworth again and love him. I've been getting into a lot more fusion recently as well.

Outside Octaves
01-21-2007, 11:10 PM
I know this is going to make me a total noob to ask this, but here goes anyways:

Fusion? Of what?

PooKoo
01-21-2007, 11:46 PM
Well, a bunch of people could give a better definition, but basically, fusion pushes the limits of everything.
Technique, skill, phrasing, anything you can think of, think zappa, kind of.
At first it sounds unmelodic and hideous and emotionless and it has no real key or root to it, and your ear cannot grab it, but it also can make incredibly beautiful, exotic, and trippy music that for me, is great to work to, or just space out to late at night.

Fusion, in a nutshell, is pushing boundaries.
And i'm sure resi will disagree 100%

Also, did I mention that jazz plays a major part?

Godly Moose
01-22-2007, 12:44 AM
Well, a bunch of people could give a better definition, but basically, fusion pushes the limits of everything.
Technique, skill, phrasing, anything you can think of, think zappa, kind of.
At first it sounds unmelodic and hideous and emotionless and it has no real key or root to it, and your ear cannot grab it, but it also can make incredibly beautiful, exotic, and trippy music that for me, is great to work to, or just space out to late at night.

Fusion, in a nutshell, is pushing boundaries.
And i'm sure resi will disagree 100%

Also, did I mention that jazz plays a major part?

:haha

Resiliance
01-22-2007, 03:29 AM
Well, a bunch of people could give a better definition, but basically, fusion pushes the limits of everything.
Technique, skill, phrasing, anything you can think of, think zappa, kind of.
At first it sounds unmelodic and hideous and emotionless and it has no real key or root to it, and your ear cannot grab it, but it also can make incredibly beautiful, exotic, and trippy music that for me, is great to work to, or just space out to late at night.

Fusion, in a nutshell, is pushing boundaries.
And i'm sure resi will disagree 100%

Also, did I mention that jazz plays a major part?

Bleh, fusion is jazz played with electric instruments and fused with "rock". :p:

PooKoo
01-22-2007, 10:07 AM
I like my definition better.

paddyo
01-22-2007, 10:21 AM
I like your definition too Pookoo....Resi's is correct though. :p:

PooKoo
01-22-2007, 10:46 AM
Obvi. But I still like mine damnit!

Outside Octaves
01-22-2007, 01:14 PM
Ah, "Jazz Fusion" ok... I get it now.

BTW: Zappa who? oi, talk about being a green-horn!

Resiliance
01-22-2007, 01:15 PM
BTW: Zappa who? oi, talk about being a green-horn!

GET OUT! :peace:

Outside Octaves
01-22-2007, 01:31 PM
Haha, I figured I'd get a few replies like that, but from you Resi? :p: .

Ehem... I got some wiki'ing to do I guess...

____________________
Edit:

Well, after looking up Zappa on wiki and reading the introduction bit and a little afterwords...... 60 ALBUMS! HOLY F<e>CK! That's BEYOND prolific! :eek:

Ok, well... I heard the first sample off that page... nice for phycodelic rock :). (not a HUGE fan of some of those sounds during that time, but then again other phycodelic sounds I'm a huge fan of, lol!) Hmmm...

flamencogod
01-22-2007, 02:18 PM
you don't know zappa > you don't live yet

Resiliance
01-22-2007, 04:13 PM
Zappa ain't ****in' psychedelic rock. Don't judge what he is until you've listened to all his stuff :p:. (Well, aside from the tons of stuff that is still in his vault)

See you in a few years.

Outside Octaves
01-23-2007, 01:56 AM
Hahaha, I wasn't saying he was strictly physcodelic rock! :p: Resi... you are jumping to conclusions. 60 albums takes many years to make, and I am COMPLETELY sure he's not only gone in and out of several genres, but has evolved over the years as well! He doesn't fit one genre or another really... he can compose anything he wants :).

And as for not living yet... well, I guess I got years to go, as mom didn't do anything for me musicly growing up. Hell, I hadn't even listened to the radio (and still don't... nothing good on the new rock stations, and the local "old rock" stations just play the same things over and over and over, they don't have a broad spectrum of albums/pieces to play ;). It wasn't untill I was 16 or so and over at my neighbor's house, and he happened to have some sorta metal playing, he said it was Metallica, and I liked it alot! I then rushed out as fast as I could to get an album that the cover and song names appealed to me with... and that just happened to be the Black Album (so to speak). With a song name like "OF WOLF AND MAN", it spoke directly to me as I'm a fan of horror films and specificly the gothic stuff like licons, Vampires, and various demonic sorta things (in movies only of course :) ). Then I started to knotice I was likeing the darker sounds in this music so I kept looking through various bands and stuff through the years to find a sound that was even darker, the darkest sounding stuff possible. Of course, darkness in sound to me back then is what I now know to be "bassy" stuff, the lower end growls and such from the guitar. It was Metallica's dark guitar and bass work that got me into guitar really. Hendrix cemented my love for guitar and was what got me out to get a guitar, but Metallica started my facinated obsession :D. Then one day I got to talking with a friend online about how I've been looking for a band with this "darker" sound, and he introduced me to Breaking All the Rules - Ozzy. And well, I then started looking for some ozzy, the neihbor had some so I borrowed it for a little while..... and well years later I've gott stuff on my pc like ozzy, sabbath, satch, vai, muse, green day (I like to listen to a little of the lighter stuff from time to time), rush, jethro tull (borrowed for a little while at least), Nirvana, Led Zeppelin, Santana's early years stuff (Abraxis, Santana, Viva Santana... not all that good to me but a few are :) ) and a few other things along those lines...

But that's it... I don't know much of rock at all I know. I've only scratched the surfface, if that.

I want to get out there and find some more rock, and especially, now, stuff like how the guitarist for Jethro Tull comes in on Locamotive Breath when preformed live at the Madison Square Gardens. The way he came in bending that powerchord and making all those "phycodelic noises" is heaven :).

But as far as zappa... he seems like one of the formost minds of rock history. Surprizing I've never heard of him before this... or heard any of his own music...

What would be a good Zappa album to look into (I know, 60 is a lot of albums to sift through, even mentally)?

Lycan
01-23-2007, 09:32 AM
Ah, "Jazz Fusion" ok... I get it now.

BTW: Zappa who? oi, talk about being a green-horn! ..... :eek: i've gotta sig that...

Resiliance
01-23-2007, 12:40 PM
What would be a good Zappa album to look into (I know, 60 is a lot of albums to sift through, even mentally)?

Hot Rats.

Outside Octaves
01-23-2007, 12:55 PM
Wow, thanks. Finally! The honor of being sig'ed! Thanks :).

:p:

But yea... It'll be a few years before I can even get around to getting any of zappa's albums probably, I've got tons of other music to catch up on before I even try to tackle the monstrously huge discography of Frank Zappa. I mean, I still have lots of heavy/classic Metal and Rock to cach up on, along with just rock in general (from Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Audioslave, to the likes of 60's phycodelic rock and fun stuff like that :D ). Then there's all this shread to catch up on too... I mean... Mom put me behind the curve in never playing any music or helping me get into music somehow at an early age.

Hell, I didn't know ANY musician's beyond Carlos Santana and Rob Thomas doing Smooth, Smash Mouth's cover of the Monkies with that one song that ended up on Shrek, and Sugar Ray's #1 hit at the time Every Morning. That was all I knew of out there, hell I thought there wasn't much beyond that in "Great Music" (as I called it then)... I was 16 when I was introduced to Metalica and then Zeppelin I believe... 2 years later I finally was introduced to Ozzy, Pink Floyd, and Ted Nudget (Still don't have much of an idea who this guy is beyond GWB and Strangle Hold. And then 2 years later I started collecting as much as I could, or borrowing stuff untill I could buy my own copy... I didn't even know any pink floyd beyond the song Another Brick in the Wall part 2... Hell at the time I thought that was a freaky piece of crap... untill not too many months ago I finally got a proper introduction to them with the full The Wall album, and a few months later Echoes: the best of Pink Floyd. Now I've just been introduced to Satch, Vai, Malmsteen. Hell, it was just in this past few days that I've learned about the existance of Zappa, Shawn Lane, and how truly good Satch is :D. I still need to find some proper samples of the zappa and lane. But if he's anything like the guitarist for BOA from back in their heydays... I don't know if I like em. I'm sure he isn't, I just don't dig on Jim Dandy the one piece I have of them.

So I'm sure I have TONS of stuff tthat I can't even begin to fathem to find when it comes to the great bands of all time.

Resiliance
01-23-2007, 01:14 PM
The horror...

Outside Octaves
01-23-2007, 02:03 PM
? What is it resi?

Godly Moose
01-23-2007, 03:35 PM
I suggest start trying to listen to some Jazz. :)

Lycan
01-23-2007, 03:39 PM
also just to let you know OO that vai first started out as Zappa's little italian that plays all the impossible parts zappa couldn't play (god rest his soul, zappa was a bad arse guitarist)

Resiliance
01-23-2007, 03:44 PM
also just to let you know OO that vai first started out as Zappa's little italian that plays all the impossible parts zappa couldn't play (god rest his soul, zappa was a bad arse guitarist)

You mean Zappa didn't have very "shred-worthy" technique, undoubtedly... As he was not by any means a "bad arse guitarist".

Outside Octaves
01-23-2007, 10:14 PM
Hmmm... that's interesting to note. Via working with zappa.

aeginotu
01-23-2007, 11:54 PM
Yeah, Vai basically became Zappa's "Transcribe this!" monkey for some time, which I imagine helped his relative pitch a lot. Also, a trivia fact: On several Frank Zappa albums Vai is listed in the liner notes as stunt guitar.

Lycan
01-24-2007, 06:43 AM
You mean Zappa didn't have very "shred-worthy" technique, undoubtedly... As he was not by any means a "bad arse guitarist".

maybe in you're opinion, BUT! in my opinion i have always enjoyed his note groupings and the way the writes his music, to me that shows him being bad " arse " and i say arse becuase i'm british and i don't particularly enjoy saying the word " ass " just the way i am ^.^

Yeah, Vai basically became Zappa's "Transcribe this!" monkey for some time, which I imagine helped his relative pitch a lot. Also, a trivia fact: On several Frank Zappa albums Vai is listed in the liner notes as stunt guitar.

yeah i can't remember the song but vai transcribed it and sent it off to zappa after getting ahold of his phone number and after sending a few more transcriptions to him zappa ended up talking about him in some magazine then soon after vai was recruited after graduating from Berklee Collage. though i could be wrong with some of the information :(

Resiliance
01-24-2007, 09:36 AM
maybe in you're opinion, BUT! in my opinion i have always enjoyed his note groupings and the way the writes his music, to me that shows him being bad " arse " and i say arse becuase i'm british and i don't particularly enjoy saying the word " ass " just the way i am ^.^

Well, I wasn't sure if you meant bad in the good or bad way, I assumed you meant the bad way... Obviously not. You could've made it more clear :p:

Outside Octaves
01-24-2007, 05:07 PM
BTW, how is not knowing about zappa at all "cold"?

Resiliance
01-24-2007, 06:02 PM
"cold"?

Outside Octaves
01-24-2007, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by Outside Octaves
Ah, "Jazz Fusion" ok... I get it now.

BTW: Zappa who? oi, talk about being a green-horn!


Oh now thats cold! :eek: :eek:

Member #4 of the "Marty Friedman > You" Club. PM altronataku or apocalypse13 to join.

yea... How's that cold?

Lycan
01-25-2007, 05:06 AM
Well, I wasn't sure if you meant bad in the good or bad way, I assumed you meant the bad way... Obviously not. You could've made it more clear :p:


i could've done but i was lazy :rolleyes:

and in answer to OO using the term cold in " OMGZ |)@T !$ $0 (O||)!! (or omgz that is so cold) " basicly means heartless or having no emotion as well as it meaning harsh and icy tis slang term X.x

Outside Octaves
01-25-2007, 02:54 PM
I know that meaning of it, I ment in how he used it. Like... how is not knowing zappa at all really all that "cold" (having no emotion)?

TheUltimateSin
01-25-2007, 08:45 PM
I know that meaning of it, I ment in how he used it. Like... how is not knowing zappa at all really all that "cold" (having no emotion)?

I think he means it in that he thinks you've been living under a rock(for not knowing zappa), so to speak ;)

Stratwizard
01-27-2007, 03:14 PM
There's nothing goin' on in the music.

Sure there is. The pseudo blues licks and pentatonic legato wanking. Don't forget the incredible pitch axis either.

Freepower
01-27-2007, 04:07 PM
Pitch Axis? Isn't that where you act suprised that changing chords and modes over a single root gives you a feel of each respective mode without a new root?

pavan
01-28-2007, 10:46 AM
maybe in you're opinion, BUT! in my opinion i have always enjoyed his note groupings and the way the writes his music, to me that shows him being bad " arse " and i say arse becuase i'm british and i don't particularly enjoy saying the word " ass " just the way i am ^.^



yeah i can't remember the song but vai transcribed it and sent it off to zappa after getting ahold of his phone number and after sending a few more transcriptions to him zappa ended up talking about him in some magazine then soon after vai was recruited after graduating from Berklee Collage. though i could be wrong with some of the information :(

he didnt graduate

Lycan
01-28-2007, 11:29 AM
he didnt graduate

He didn't? ah well like i said some of the infomation would be wrong :rolleyes: thanks for straighting it out

Outside Octaves
01-28-2007, 09:53 PM
Speaking of the soul of a "shreader"... I just recently saw In This River - BLS... Wow, powerful song no? The piece is nothing but single vibratoed notes almost, but yet it manages one hell of a sad epic arch no? (R.I.P. Dime, RIP like you never riped before :) )

PooKoo
01-29-2007, 07:41 AM
Except for the horrible shred part.

paddyo
01-29-2007, 01:12 PM
^Which is THE most ridiculously out of place solo he could have imagined up...

PooKoo
01-29-2007, 07:02 PM
Agreed 100%

Outside Octaves
01-30-2007, 09:10 PM
Actually, I thought that was an awsome piece of solo. I think he preaty much must have been trying to pay tribute to Dime's Playing by somewhat emulating Dime's style of play right there. At least it seems that way to me (I've only got the Far Beyond Driven album). It's preaty neat actually. Especially how he's in and out with the volume, and vibratoing most notes untill that great little solo tribute moment.