Middle-Eastern/Arabic/Egyptian Scales?


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Mechanixx
02-19-2007, 05:08 PM
Anyone know any? Any links to find some? Thanks for the help.

ARCtrooper225
02-19-2007, 05:11 PM
for middle eastern stuff, try the half-whole or whole-half scale, and try to have an open string droning in the background as a pedal tone. for egyptian, I usually use:

e|---------------------------1-2-----
b|----------------------2-3----------
G|-----------------2-3---------------
D|------------3-4--------------------
A|-------4-5-------------------------
E|--5-6------------------------------

Just move the pattern to whatever key your working in

_-Skeletor-_
02-19-2007, 05:21 PM
in guitar pro in the scales menu in has heaps of scales from the middle east and egypt and what not

vanceboy
02-19-2007, 05:22 PM
^whats the root note?

vanceboy
02-19-2007, 05:22 PM
go to google and search "advanced guitar room"

bluesrocker101
02-19-2007, 05:56 PM
Phrygian Dominant, Mixolydian b6 (Hindu), Phrygian. Also the symmetrical scales (WH, HW). Those are the ones that I use to get what you want.

hippie_cune
02-20-2007, 12:14 AM
all-guitar-chords.com

then click on guitar scales up top.. there a huge list of scales.. arabian, chinese, mongolian, jewish, spanish..

tons.

(egyptians there too)

Eggmond
02-20-2007, 01:01 PM
www.jguitar.com

Archeo Avis
02-20-2007, 01:37 PM
Phrygian dominant.

BassistGal
02-20-2007, 02:37 PM
Harmonic minor.

magicninja_
02-20-2007, 02:47 PM
Hirajoshi scale. The one best suited for metal imo. Try the Iwato scale as well. Maybe the Kumoi scale. Mostly associated with far eastern sound but sound middle eastern as well.

nnizzle
02-20-2007, 02:56 PM
jguitar or something has like every scale ever and egyptian, russian all that. id google i dont remember the exact site.
oh i see the guy already said that.

Devon8822
02-20-2007, 05:25 PM
How do you guys get a feel for how to use the scale? Like you cant just learn the scale and play egyptian or eastern music on it. Mybe, a backing track in the style im tryign to play will help?

CowboyUp
02-20-2007, 06:30 PM
Phrygian/Phrygian Dominant. I don't know if it helps, but you can get pretty much any scale to sound exotic with a little messing about.

Lightnin6String
09-26-2007, 07:04 PM
Try This 6 string finger food scale!!! (key E) but i like to drop down to C#

-----------------------------------------------------7--8--10--12---
--------------------------------------------9--10---------------------
------------------------------------9--10-----------------------------
--------------------6--7--9--10--------------------------------------
-------------7--8------------------------------------------------------
--0--7--8--------------------------------------------------------------

CowboyUp
09-26-2007, 07:24 PM
Try This 6 string finger food scale!!! (key E) but i like to drop down to C#

-----------------------------------------------------7--8--10--12---
--------------------------------------------9--10---------------------
------------------------------------9--10-----------------------------
--------------------6--7--9--10--------------------------------------
-------------7--8------------------------------------------------------
--0--7--8--------------------------------------------------------------

I like that :cheers:

But, generally it's a bad idea to bump old threads.

kyrreca
09-26-2007, 08:00 PM
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php
lots to choose from

BassTalk
09-27-2007, 02:24 AM
Double Harmonic. Period. I've yet to find another scale that could beat it for its exotic sound.
The formula's something like 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7. In the key of A it'd be A Bb C# D E F G#. Just try it out and you'll see what I mean! ;)

Paul Wolfe
08-30-2009, 02:19 PM
Anyone know any? Any links to find some? Thanks for the help.


This is called Hijaz and it has two flats and one sharp in the scale... Middle Eastern music doesn't follow Western musical rules...


|--------------------|--------------|----------------------|----------------------|
|--------------------|---------1-3-|-3-1-----------------|----------------------|
|--------------------|-0-2-3-------|------3-2-0---------|----------------------|
|------------0-1-4-|---------------|--------------4-1-0-|----------------------|
|----0-1-3---------|---------------|----------------------|-3-1-0--------------|
|-0-----------------|--------------|----------------------|---------5-4-1-0----|


I got this scale from the National Guitar Workshop book: Guitar Atlas: Middle East which you can find here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0739035991/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1QPMDT8YEE4N55GEYQB7&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846).

StewieSwan
08-30-2009, 02:37 PM
This is called Hijaz and it has two flats and one sharp in the scale... Middle Eastern music doesn't follow Western musical rules...


|--------------------|--------------|----------------------|----------------------|
|--------------------|---------1-3-|-3-1-----------------|----------------------|
|--------------------|-0-2-3-------|------3-2-0---------|----------------------|
|------------0-1-4-|---------------|--------------4-1-0-|----------------------|
|----0-1-3---------|---------------|----------------------|-3-1-0--------------|
|-0-----------------|--------------|----------------------|---------5-4-1-0----|


I got this scale from the National Guitar Workshop book: Guitar Atlas: Middle East which you can find here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0739035991/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1QPMDT8YEE4N55GEYQB7&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846).



This thread is 2 years old, man....why did you bump it?



Edit: I see what you did there

Paul Wolfe
08-30-2009, 05:34 PM
This thread is 2 years old, man....why did you bump it?



Edit: I see what you did there


Just thought it was an interesting topic that I had something to add to.

Wiegenlied
08-31-2009, 02:26 AM
Phrygian Dominant, Mixolydian b6 (Hindu), Phrygian. Also the symmetrical scales (WH, HW). Those are the ones that I use to get what you want.

This. Also try the Byzatine scale. Which is just Phrygian Dominant with a sharp seven.

mdwallin
08-31-2009, 02:58 AM
This is called Hijaz and it has two flats and one sharp in the scale... Middle Eastern music doesn't follow Western musical rules...


|--------------------|--------------|----------------------|----------------------|
|--------------------|---------1-3-|-3-1-----------------|----------------------|
|--------------------|-0-2-3-------|------3-2-0---------|----------------------|
|------------0-1-4-|---------------|--------------4-1-0-|----------------------|
|----0-1-3---------|---------------|----------------------|-3-1-0--------------|
|-0-----------------|--------------|----------------------|---------5-4-1-0----|
.
HIJAZ ROCKS!
also try these ones
Rast C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb
BayyatiC, D, E, F, G, A, B
SabaD, Eb, F, Gb, A, Bb, C, Db (then back down again)
Sikah Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C, D
Huzam Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C, D, Eb
Nahawand C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B
'Ajam 'Ashiran Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A
Hijaz Kar C, Db, E, F, G, Ab, B
Kurd D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C
Nakriz C, D, Eb, F#, G, A, Bb
Nawa Athar C, D, Eb, F#, G, Ab, B (going down it has a Bb)

I got these scales from my clarinet teacher when she came back from Greece. I use them ALL the time now. ESPECIALLY the Hijaz. Which is also used in Misirlou, which you should ALL know as guitarists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8

Paul Wolfe
09-01-2009, 03:21 AM
Thanks, mdwallin now I've got a lot to keep me busy!

Wiegenlied
09-01-2009, 03:39 AM
HIJAZ ROCKS!
also try these ones
Rast C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb
BayyatiC, D, E, F, G, A, B
SabaD, Eb, F, Gb, A, Bb, C, Db (then back down again)
Sikah Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C, D
Huzam Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C, D, Eb
Nahawand C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B
'Ajam 'Ashiran Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A
Hijaz Kar C, Db, E, F, G, Ab, B
Kurd D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C
Nakriz C, D, Eb, F#, G, A, Bb
Nawa Athar C, D, Eb, F#, G, Ab, B (going down it has a Bb)

I got these scales from my clarinet teacher when she came back from Greece. I use them ALL the time now. ESPECIALLY the Hijaz. Which is also used in Misirlou, which you should ALL know as guitarists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8

The "Hijaz" scale is the Byzantine scale I was just talking about - [ I bII III IV V bVI VII ]

The flat second yet natural seventh makes it intersting becase there's a chormatic run from the seventh to the root, to the second, but it wants to resolve to root which is in the middle. It's also interesting because there's only one whole tone interval reltationship in the entire scale, which is primilarily what regular scales are based off of.

Wiegenlied
09-01-2009, 03:55 AM
I actually analyzed the scales you listed and I could indentify all of them except "saba" also a commonly known scale or mode.

Rast is the mixolydian mode. Both bayyati and ajam ashiran are simply the major scale. Sikah is the lydian mode, huzam is the augmented fifth scale, nahawand is the harmonic minor scale, and hijaz kar is like I said is the equilavent of the byzantine scale. Kurd is the dorian mode, nakriz is the romanian or dorian #4 scale and nawa athar is the hungarian minor scale.

mdwallin
09-01-2009, 06:11 AM
I actually analyzed the scales you listed and I could indentify all of them except "saba" also a commonly known scale or mode.

Rast is the mixolydian mode. Both bayyati and ajam ashiran are simply the major scale. Sikah is the lydian mode, huzam is the augmented fifth scale, nahawand is the harmonic minor scale, and hijaz kar is like I said is the equilavent of the byzantine scale. Kurd is the dorian mode, nakriz is the romanian or dorian #4 scale and nawa athar is the hungarian minor scale.
it isn't the formula that gives these scales their name, but the actual notes. They have looked at how the actual notes sound compared to one another. Certain notes just sound better than others in certain styles. If you really analyze notes and how they sound to our ear, you'll see that it isn't just pitch. G FEELS different from C.

Paying attention to things like this is also a way to get perfect pitch.

These greeks, or mediteranians.. whatever they are. Have come up with different names for these sounds. That and if you look up these scales and see what chords are generally used around them, you'll see that the tonal functions are different. These names are not just describing the notes in the scale, but how they are used as well. That's why eastern scales rule! :P


Thanks, mdwallin now I've got a lot to keep me busy!

no worries! glad to help.

also if you google these scales. to get a really good understanding of where they came from and stuff, translate some of the greek websites. They have more info than the ones in english ;)

bittercitrus
11-12-2009, 10:32 AM
I actually analyzed the scales you listed and I could indentify all of them except "saba" also a commonly known scale or mode.

Rast is the mixolydian mode. Both bayyati and ajam ashiran are simply the major scale. Sikah is the lydian mode, huzam is the augmented fifth scale, nahawand is the harmonic minor scale, and hijaz kar is like I said is the equilavent of the byzantine scale. Kurd is the dorian mode, nakriz is the romanian or dorian #4 scale and nawa athar is the hungarian minor scale.

i'm sorry, dude, but this just is NOT true. first of all, the other post was just a western approximation/simplification of what the scale sounds like to them, but are not completely 100% accurate in terms of the original scales, visit maqamworld.com if you don't believe me. besides, these are just a few scales that can be mimicked on a guitar, but are not a complete representation of middle eastern music, mainly because of its use of quartertones.

of course, this doesn't even begin to include rhythmic complexity in creating melodies and many other things. i think a lot of western musicians would shit their pants when faced with a lot of the time signatures employed in middle eastern music. having studied both, i am very tired of people trying to fit all types of non-western music into western paradigms, because it doesn't fit preconcieved notions of how the world works...

middle eastern music is much richer in terms of the sheer number of modes, and employs a very rich tradition of music theory. whereas the majority of western music's scales are made up of 13 notes (8 whole notes, plus 5 half tones) in an octave, middle eastern scales contain 15, 17, or 24 notes in an octave... which includes quartertones. unfortunately, due to the way that guitars are fretted, it is not really possible to play middle eastern scales on a fretted guitar with 100% fidelity... so, instead of having whole steps and half-steps, you get 3/4 steps, and 1 1/2 steps at certain points, which sounds different.

in fact, it's much more accurate to say that these different modes are representation of the feeling of certain intervals between notes rather than scales starting on certain notes.... each of these scales is not a fixed scale, but one scale in a family of scales that include the same "feeling." there's of course, dozens of families, and hundreds of possibilities of scales through combinations of notes on usul (anchornotes occurring at various points throughout the scales)... anyway, back to what i was saying...

here are the notes for those same scales with quartertones:

Rast C, D, E half-flat, F, G, A, B half-flat (up)
Rast C, Bb, A, G, F, E half-flat, D, C (down)

Bayyati D, E half-flat, F, G, A, Bb, C, D

Saba 1: D, E half-flat, F, Gb, A, Bb, C, D
Saba 2: D, E half-flat, F, Gb, A, Bb, C, Db, E, F

(Maqam Saba has two possible forms, shown above. The first form ends on the octave (D) while the second goes beyond 8 notes and doesn't include the octave of the tonic (D). Since the first 3 notes of maqam Saba are the beginning of the Bayati tetrachord, Saba is a popular modulation from maqam Bayati. )

Sikah E half-flat, F, G, A, B half-flat, C, D, E half-flat (UP)
Sikah E half-flat, F, G, A, B b, C, D, E half-flat (DOWN)


Huzam (variation of Maqam Sikah) E half-flat, F, G, Ab, B, C, D, E half-flat


Nahawand C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B, C (UP)
Nahawand C, Bb, Ab, G, F, Eb, D, C


'Ajam 'Ashiran Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A

(Interestingly, this is one scale from the 'Ajam family, which is a mimicry of what Western music sounds like to Middle Eastern musicians... Ajami literally means "foreign")

Hijaz Kar C, Db, E, F, G, Ab, B

(Hijaz Kar is a semitonal friendly variation on Maqam Hijaz, which doesn't include quartertones, unlike its cousin)


Kurd D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C (AS IS)


Nakriz C, D, Eb, F#, G, A, Bb (AS IS)


Nawa Athar C, D, Eb, F#, G, Ab, B (going down it has a Bb)



uh, that's all... now play that over a 13/4, 10/8, 14/4, 11/8, etc. rhythm... and you're all good to go (somewhat) to have your music sound middle-eastern-y.

i'm just saying, it is what it is. middle eastern music has different music theory, please don't try to force a square peg into a round hole.

MusicThinker
11-13-2009, 03:39 AM
I think the thing that sticks out to western ears most, in regards to middle-eastern music, is the pressense of an augmented 2nd interval. The recomendation of harmonic minor is great because the raising the 7th scale degree creates an augment second. The reason this is neat is because the notes have a strong desire to resolve away from eachother creating lots of tension and motion (especially when juxtaposed over a pedal tone)

Minor modalities, and symmetrical scales also add this leading tone quality although these don't pack quite the same punch becuae the case tends to be that the three shalf step interval acts more like a minor third, instead of an augmented second in that it wants to resolve inwards instead of outwords.

20Tigers
11-13-2009, 04:32 AM
This thread is 2 years old, man....why did you bump it?



Edit: I see what you did therefairly off topic so sorry but- Stewie - in your sig, replace "feathery, wet" with "epic". -seriously who in their heterosexual mind would describe their own ass as "feathery" and "wet" anyway? :confused:

metaladdict123
11-13-2009, 06:53 AM
phrygian dominant,

jenguind
11-13-2009, 03:21 PM
eastern scales and music also use quite a few quater tones unubtanable other than bending or a fretless

c s 0 1
01-30-2010, 10:11 PM
This is a cool thread. I'm not very familiar with middle eastern music but would like to know more about it. Does anyone know where to find a good resource on how to write middle eastern music? For example, what kinds of chords are used in which scales, if any chords are even used?

Housequake
01-31-2010, 12:22 PM
http://www.jazzguitar.be/exotic_guitar_scales.html

The Byzantine, Japanese & Harmonic Minor scales are my favourite arabic sounding scales.
Use the phrygian mode if you want to go for a spanish/flamenco style!

MikeDodge
01-31-2010, 01:19 PM
I have two full blown tutorials on this style of playing...

http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/PhryDom/PhryDomTOC.htm Start with this one, it has tab and audio...and READ the Introduction!!!

http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/IndSlide2/indslidehome_frames.htm Read the Before You Start section. This lesson is deeper than the last but has video, notation, and tab.

It's ALL free, I don't even use google ads. Enjoy!

ibrahimasood
09-28-2012, 11:44 AM
i like this thanks

griffRG7321
09-28-2012, 11:47 AM
Awful thread
Awful post to necrobump with

J-Dawg158
09-28-2012, 12:00 PM
i like this thanks

http://gifsforum.com/images/image/cool%20story%20bro/grand/cool_story_bro.jpg

20Tigers
09-28-2012, 06:56 PM
Closed thread.