Avatar bass cab: 410 or 212?


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Scourge441
04-20-2007, 01:49 PM
I've been looking at bass cabs, and the nice folks at Talkbass have recommended getting an Avatar. That leaves the choice of the 4x10 or the 2x12.

According to one user, the 2x12 has a higher perceived volume than the 4x10 because of more pronounced mids. I was hoping that someone(s) here has had experience with the cab(s) and could offer their input. Sadly, I know of no nearby places that have the cabs in stock, so I can't try them myself.

(My other choices are two Hartkes (a 410TP and a 410XL) and a used Marshall 1540. I still have to try the Marshall. The Hartkes sound nice, but I prefer paper speakers as opposed to the aluminum ones in both models. If someone else can recommend a good cab that costs $420 or less, that would be great.)

I'll be playing mostly heavy music (metal, hardcore, heavier progressive stuff, etc.). My head is a Peavy Mark VI, 250 watts @ 4 ohms/400 watts @ 2 ohms. My bass is a Spector Q5.

The original Talkbass thread is here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4100097&posted=1#post4100097

MetalUpTheAss
04-20-2007, 01:56 PM
I'd just go with the 410.

The 212 might have more mids, but the 410 has more speakers, pushes more air, and therefore it is louder.

Scourge441
04-20-2007, 02:05 PM
I'd just go with the 410.

The 212 might have more mids, but the 410 has more speakers, pushes more air, and therefore it is louder.
Then what is "perceived volume?" Does that just mean the 212 cuts through better?

Another factor I forgot to mention is price; the 212 is $80 cheaper than the 410.

Right now, if I do go with the Avatar, I think I'll buy the 212 so I have money left over for other bass-related stuff, and put some of that leftover money towards buying a 210 cab later on.

indie-bassist
04-20-2007, 02:14 PM
I would go with the 4x10, to me, 2x12s are sort of "nothing" cabs, 4x10s have defined highs and pretty decent mids, 1x15s have nice lows and alright mids and to me, 12" speakers aren't really as much of a necessity as the others in bass playing

Scourge441
04-20-2007, 02:39 PM
Votes for 410: 2 (both from UG)
Votes for 212: 2 (both from Talkbass)

Interesting.

MetalUpTheAss
04-20-2007, 02:57 PM
Don't get me wrong, 212's are great... but I'd feel more comfortable with a full 410 in terms of cutting thru, and if I add a 115 that's even better.

The 212, if you can absolutely have only one cab, might end up better, and it'd cut through nicely with its mids.

thedonutman
04-20-2007, 03:00 PM
Votes for 410: 2 (both from UG)
Votes for 212: 2 (both from Talkbass)

Interesting.


I think the guys at TB definitely know their stuff.

Thats not saying the guys here at UG don't though :D

Fast_Bear
04-20-2007, 03:05 PM
Marshall does make a 412 cab just so you know.

Scourge441
04-20-2007, 03:23 PM
Don't get me wrong, 212's are great... but I'd feel more comfortable with a full 410 in terms of cutting thru, and if I add a 115 that's even better.

The 212, if you can absolutely have only one cab, might end up better, and it'd cut through nicely with its mids.
I plan to eventually go the 410-115 route, but for financial reasons that isn't an option. Like I said earlier, I may get a 210 cab at a later date to go with the 212 (maybe get a 115 even later and go 115-212-210 rather than 115-410).

Marshall does make a 412 cab just so you know.
It's about $300 out of my price range.

sinan90
04-20-2007, 03:26 PM
The perceived volume means that if the decibel levels are the same that the 212 sounds louder because it's at a frequency which the human ear hears better. That's why a guitar and a bass may have the same decibel output but the guitar sounds louder.

DehumanizeR
04-20-2007, 06:47 PM
why not a 8x10"? they're louder than 2x12 and 4x10 and 4x12

Scourge441
04-20-2007, 08:36 PM
why not a 8x10"? they're louder than 2x12 and 4x10 and 4x12
Name one good 810 for $420 or less.

Yeah, that's what I thought...

MetalUpTheAss
04-20-2007, 08:39 PM
I plan to eventually go the 410-115 route, but for financial reasons that isn't an option. Like I said earlier, I may get a 210 cab at a later date to go with the 212 (maybe get a 115 even later and go 115-212-210 rather than 115-410).


It's about $300 out of my price range.

If your eventual plan is 410+ 115... buy the 410 now. No reason to buy a 212 that you'd have to re-sell and buy even more stuff.



And for what it's worth, this UG'er is a TB'er as well.

SocKo?
04-21-2007, 01:58 AM
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/pictures/magazinearticle.jpg

i'd read that. If you wanna punch through, the 212 is definately the better choice. if you prefer a groovy fat sound, the 410 is best. the 410 is fat, but won't stand out. the 212 is punchy, but is "leaner in the low end"

me personally, i would get the 212. couple the 212 with the 410 and you got a magic combo. for metal i would assume a punchy middy sound would be preferred.

another personal oppinion, the 410+115 combo is a bit overrated and overplayed. whats the best set up for a punk rocker? ampeg svt + ampeg 810.

DehumanizeR
04-21-2007, 06:49 AM
Name one good 810 for $420 or less.

Yeah, that's what I thought...

oh, must have missed that, sorry.

Scourge441
04-21-2007, 11:51 AM
http://www.avatarspeakers.com/pictures/magazinearticle.jpg

i'd read that. If you wanna punch through, the 212 is definately the better choice. if you prefer a groovy fat sound, the 410 is best. the 410 is fat, but won't stand out. the 212 is punchy, but is "leaner in the low end"

me personally, i would get the 212. couple the 212 with the 410 and you got a magic combo. for metal i would assume a punchy middy sound would be preferred.

another personal oppinion, the 410+115 combo is a bit overrated and overplayed. whats the best set up for a punk rocker? ampeg svt + ampeg 810.
I did read that article, and that was the thing driving me towards getting the 212. It calls the 212 "leaner in the low end," but later says the 212 has "penetrating low-end drive," so methinks the bassier end of the sound spectrum will not be an issue.