What can i do to develop sense of rhythm and time?


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teh_shredmaster
09-14-2007, 01:06 AM
I kind of lost sense of rhythm like offbeats with like sixteenth rests and often
eighth rests :eek: Gosh.. its terrible So I started hitting a note to the
beat of metronome(im hitting a note when there is a beep) around 60 notes
in a minute. but I don't think that would help with sense of offbeat/rhythm..
any recommendations?

ConstableMurtis
09-14-2007, 01:43 AM
one way i tell my bassist to improve upon this is to be able to play a song in his head before actually trying to play it on an instrument ie: be able to hum or sing every single beat. this is what i do, not on purpose, but just kinda when im sitting and listening to a tune. i feel it helps me develop my rhythm, not only for the song im listening too, but also for any future times when keeping in rhythm might have otherwise been a challenge.

another way i find to help this is to just write your own songs. this is because when you write your own songs, you naturally already have a beat in your head. writing your own songs will help to get that beat from your head to your fingers, and vice versa. if you struggle at first, try doing something a little simpler/slower, than as you get more comfortable, you can add in more complex offbeats, or just get faster.

hope this helps.

Lendorav
09-14-2007, 09:09 AM
Practice with a metronome. It's the only way.

drummond_bass
09-14-2007, 09:25 AM
tap your foot when your playing

shut_up_you_***
09-14-2007, 11:12 AM
Learn how to count. :)

I'm not kidding. By counting, you are more aware of where you are whilst playing. It takes a long time to get this to be almost automatic and I'm finding it very hard to do.
To count 4 beats in the bar:

1-ee-and-uh
2-ee-and-uh
3-ee-and-uh
4-ee-and uh

To count 3:

1-trip-let, etc

I've subdivided the beat into 16ths (semi-quavers).

Each syllable is one 16th. By accenting each syllable, we can create interesting rhythms. Talking the rhythms can help consolidate these patterns in our head. People who learn the tabla don't even touch the instrument for the first year, just remembering vocal rhythms.

You said you're finding off beats tricky. Well, let's start with that. I've put the offbeat accents in bold.

1-ee-and-uh
2-ee-and-uh
3-ee-and-uh
4-ee-and-uh

You can subdivide the beats into 8th if it makes in easer and divide the beat into 2.

1-and
2-and
3-and
4-and

I'm not sure how well I explained that or if that's any help. But I find it helps to count aloud these rhythms with a metronome and even clap.

By vocalising these rhythms (we have been talking since we were very young and is familar to us) it can help us use these rhythms whilst playing our instrument (which we may not be as familiar to us as speech).

thefitz
09-14-2007, 12:06 PM
Jeff Berlin and myself believe that playing with a metronome will not help your sense of timing. They're good for pushing yourself speed-wise, but he and I believe that rhythm is something you are 'born with' by and large. In fact, when doing things like 16th rests, a metronome might even confuse you further.

If I'm ever having problems with the rhythm of a piece, I make sure I know how it's supposed to sound, first and foremost. Using tabs on PowerTab and muting the other instruments help if you don't have the songs to listen to. Now, make sure you can hear the bass line in your head (be able to hum the line properly in your head). You should be able to play the given line much easier now.

John Swift
09-14-2007, 07:28 PM
Nearly everyone has a body clock; it is inbuilt, you'll know if you it have by trying to play out of time, if you do have the inbuilt body clock it's very hard to play out of time.

Armored Artist
09-14-2007, 09:15 PM
^ It's true. I tried to illustrate poor timing to my bro a couple of weeks ago and it proved difficult.

That being said, there is a difference between "having an internal clock" and actually being able to hit the notes with good timing. It requires practice. I recommend practicing with a drumtrack.

Developing a feel for the groove requires allowing yourself to absorb the drumbeat with your body and responding to it, rather than trying to follow or match it precisely through mental focus. For example, if you hit your notes at the absolute exact time as the bass drum, the song might sound very stiff/uninspiring. However, when you feel the beat, your fingers will intuitively accent your notes to create a responsive dynamic (a kind of dialogue between the drumbeat and your note). What's important is that you practice feeling the time intervals through scales/arpeggio exercises. As you get more comfortable, you can split your notes intuitively for faster runs and staying in time.

anarkee
09-14-2007, 11:16 PM
OK, Fitz may flame me on this, but not everyone is born with a great internal clock. This is why some people also dance well and some don't. For some people, they need to practice learning to hone the internal rhythm, and require training of the ear not only for accurate pitch / tone but also timing.

Metronome will get you far but not all the way. For learning rhythmic combinations, counting out the rhythm or even clapping them out will help. Drum tracks are great, because they build the ability to lock with a drummer; for me locking in with the kick drum and the ride or hi-hat really helps keep me in strict time. I am lucky in that I have a live in drummer who has excellent time keeping skills, which is a plus. Another trick that I just learned is to take the part you are having issues with and "loop" it, playing the section over and over again until you lock it in with some confidence.

thefitz
09-14-2007, 11:21 PM
Well, I think the lack of dancing ability comes from coordination instead of actual rhythm. People might not be able to dance, but they can bob their head easily enough. If you know 'how' the riff or passage sounds in your head, you'll have a much better time at it.

Zar938
09-15-2007, 12:09 AM
Well, I think the lack of dancing ability comes from coordination instead of actual rhythm. People might not be able to dance, but they can bob their head easily enough. If you know 'how' the riff or passage sounds in your head, you'll have a much better time at it.


not everybody can bob their head, its pretty scary, i mostly agree with what you're saying though, i would agree that a lot of time a metronome just f.cks it up even more, try tapping your foot it helps for me, or maybe playing along with a drum machine

SocKo?
09-15-2007, 01:30 AM
did u guys know they found the gene associated with dancing? ie if u have this gene you will in general be a better dancer.

but anyways, for me i kinda feel the groove, ie listen to it over and over until u get the hang of it.

if that fails, i slow it down alot, break up the rhythm into its individual parts (no neccessarily by beats, since it can be offrhtyhm, but perhaps the on beat and off beats seperate them) and practice the individual parts over and over and put it together.

another method is to play mute notes in the rhythm of the song, and play the notes after ur right hand is in tuned.

amnother method is to kinda drum out the rhythm, like just beating a pencil on a table.

all these methods have teh same end result and taht is to help you feel the rhythm, to free tension and let teh groove come naturally.

last bit of advice, when practicing a complicated rhythm, if ur too tense loosen up and relax, if ur too relaxed focus more on what ur doing. the alternation will help u alot.

offtopic, i personally feel rhythm is not innate, however one's ability to understand and grasp rhythm may come more easily than to another, much like how one may excel in academics.

thefitz
09-15-2007, 12:09 PM
I can't play Teen Town. I can't even hum Teen Town. It's hard to play something, rhythm or not, when you don't know what the notes are and where they belong. When you can hum a bass line that's in time and everything, your ability to play it increases exponentially. I bet if I sat down and listened, listened, listened, I could get it, but I haven't really put the effort in yet.

anarkee
09-15-2007, 12:13 PM
Well, I think the lack of dancing ability comes from coordination instead of actual rhythm. People might not be able to dance, but they can bob their head easily enough. If you know 'how' the riff or passage sounds in your head, you'll have a much better time at it.

Ok, to a point I agree with you, but having been around dance students and teachers for over a decade, what can make or break a dancer as with a musician is a solid internal sense of rhythm, its just that instead of expressing that through rhythmic motions on an instrument, like strings or valves, its with their feet and the rest of their body. You could argue both playing an instrument and dancing are muscle memory training to align with a internal rhythm clock.

This was driven home to me recently when I had to cart four dancers to practice and they were all sitting in the car and drumming along with a very complex Zappa song with their hands and feet. Most of the dancers I know would more than likely pick up drumming without a problem.

Internalizing music or riffs by hearing it in your head goes back to the heart of the Suzuki method of learning and has some merit. But I do think for speed training and developing the foundation of accurate timing and division of beats, a metronome has its place. While I have a great ear for tones and pitch, personally, my internal beat box is a bit undisciplined at times and using either a metronome or a drum track can help tremendously.

83lespaulstudio
09-15-2007, 03:09 PM
i don't know about you guys, but i have an internal clock and it's usually slightly behind, the actual beat. i have to concentrate to stay on top of the beat. as Anarkee said, i think praticing with a drummer, or drum machine, is far more effective than pratice with a metronome. :cool:

DoctrDrew116
09-16-2007, 03:07 PM
Use a metronome. Listen to other genres of music like Jazz, Reggae, Latin, etc. that have more interesting and challenging rhythms. Use a metronome. Learning to read music will help too. Use a metronome.

thefitz
09-16-2007, 03:17 PM
Use a metronome. Listen to other genres of music like Jazz, Reggae, Latin, etc. that have more interesting and challenging rhythms. Use a metronome. Learning to read music will help too. Use a metronome.
OK, what exactly are you trying to say? It wasn't quite clear.

cvbass
09-16-2007, 04:03 PM
METRONOME!!!!! an hour a day, every day, major and minor scales, and octaves, all the way from open to 12th fret, and back dwn

gm jack
09-16-2007, 04:45 PM
Tap your foot to every song you listen to. Try and find the time signature (required finding to beat and the accented ones) one you can tap your foot to any song (besides scarified, but thats just being silly :))

Helps develope a feeling for the beat of a song and a way to find exactly how the beat is constructed.

Once you can feel the beat perfectly, all you need to do is play bass in tine with that beat. Whole beat notes to start, and only when thats perfect move on.

flyingmarlin
09-16-2007, 07:21 PM
Learning some drum theory wont hurt, don't forget that your job usually as a bassist is to bring the guitar and the drums together, so understanding the roles of the instruments you are working with always comes in handy.

John Swift
09-17-2007, 03:53 AM
i don't know about you guys, but i have an internal clock and it's usually slightly behind, the actual beat. i have to concentrate to stay on top of the beat. as Anarkee said, i think praticing with a drummer, or drum machine, is far more effective than pratice with a metronome. :cool:

Exactly, there is no substitute for live playing, that is where phrasing and accents comes in, you don't get that with a metronome.