I hate people


PDA

View Full Version : I hate people


valennic
12-29-2007, 04:15 AM
I just found out that the rhythm guitarist for the band I just started doesn't know any music theory at all, and the rest of the band does. What do I do?

Hadeed
12-29-2007, 04:25 AM
give the guy a chance, don't be a dork about it.

Lrn2shrd69
12-29-2007, 04:25 AM
kik his ass out

rush5757
12-29-2007, 04:38 AM
How about your band talks to your guitarist and tells him that you all would perfer a more experienced guitarist. No reason to hate the guy just because he's new...

valennic
12-29-2007, 04:51 AM
I don't hate the guy, it was just a bit of a nasty blow to the plans. So should I teach him stuff along the way, or should I just find a guitarist who already knows theory? (This guy was all self taught by the way.)

jazz_croatia
12-29-2007, 07:24 AM
Try and teach him something. If he is willing to learn and he learns remotely fast keep him. If not find a replacement. If nothing there are tons of guitarists out there.

Symmetry4321
12-29-2007, 07:08 PM
Teach him stuff on the way
He may be a very good player (correct me if i am wrong) but not know any theory (thats what my band was like for a while, except it was 2 people without theory, now we all do and get along as a unit quite well) and you might battle through that part well and come out stronger as friends as well as band breatherin (sorry for the lame word)

valennic
12-29-2007, 07:36 PM
^Good point, he's not horrible, but he's not too good either, so I'll give it a shot, see what happens, if worst comes to worst, I'll find another

The Fret-Dancer
12-29-2007, 07:39 PM
The other guitarist in my band knows tons of theory and i dont know a lick of it but im still an awesome player. You should give him a chance. Is knowing music theory really a necessary requirement to be in a band?

valennic
12-29-2007, 07:58 PM
^Well if I'm writing a song in certain key using certain modes and scales and such, and he doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about, he can't keep a rhythm for it. You may be different but I don't know.

Lateralus17
12-29-2007, 08:05 PM
By theory do you mean he doesn't know his lydian from ionian or just basic scales?

Because if it's the former you being a bit of a knobhead.

Steve The Plank
12-29-2007, 08:05 PM
The drummer knows more theory than the guitarist?

Embarrassing...

trey-col89
12-29-2007, 08:08 PM
I mean, you might as well give him a chance, if after a few practices it still sounds like shit then tell him that youd rather have a more polished guitar player who knows his theory.

valennic
12-29-2007, 08:10 PM
To Lateralus, he doesn't know ANY THEORY AT ALL! (not yelling) He doesn't know any.

tbca
12-29-2007, 08:46 PM
well if he taught himself maybe hes a quick learner i would try and teach him instead of getting of my lazy ass to look for a new guitarist

Ramco
12-29-2007, 10:54 PM
Just tell him what chords to play, and if he doesn't learn anything else then you won't have to fight him for creative control.

DaddyTwoFoot
12-29-2007, 10:59 PM
Teach him.

Retribution
12-30-2007, 12:15 AM
You'd be surprised how much theory he knows, without knowing it's theory. Unless he's a lousy guitar player.

The other guitar player in my band "doesn't know" theory (according to him) but you tell him what key to play in, and he busts out a bad ass solo. He's ten times what I am as a guitarist. People are intimidated by the term 'music theory', so see what he ACTUALLY knows. I mean, if he doesn't know any scales at all, how does he play guitar? Just from tabs or whatever? He has to realize some patterns, right?

valennic
12-30-2007, 12:58 AM
^he isn't exactly brilliant, and yes, he does use tabs to play songs. He's not very advanced either now that I think about it. He doesn't know what key signatures are either.

RedMoonMan
12-30-2007, 02:27 AM
just because he doesnt know music theory doesn't mean he isn't good, didn't you listen to him play before you let him join?

Paleo Pete
12-30-2007, 12:41 PM
^ Yeppers.

Didn't you listen to the guy? Didn't you know to begin with he wasn't the greatest player in town? If not you made a big mistake. If you did, don't bitch.

I don't remember a thing from my music theory classes in high school, which was in 1973, and I play entirely by ear. I'm still an excellent guitar player, I can learn almost any song I want to without a lot of trouble, except for really difficult ones, I've played onstage for 3 years with different bands every time, sitting in for guitar players who couldn't make it for some reason, and half the time the musicians themselves couldn't tell I had never even heard the song I just played. I write a bit too, but not much since I just don't get many ideas, I'm not a prolific writer. But I do know what chords fit without theory.

Music theory is NOT a requirement, if it is for you then you should have made that plain before you brought this guy into the band. If he can learn the songs and will practice at home, that's the requirement, and you'd better keep him, you have no idea how many people out there won't practice at home, won't bother to really learn new songs, much less right away, won't WORK at it, and quite often won't even bother to show up on time, even for gigs, recordings or picture taking sessions. I've seen guys who won't even try to ditch their heavy metal sound for a variety band playing a lot of country tunes. Metal guitar on a country song just doesn't cut it.

Forget music theory, the more important things are will he practice? Will he cooperate with the band? Will he play what you or the song writer wants for the song? Is he willing to tweak his overall sound to fit a song or what the songwriter wants for the song? Is he improving overall? Is he always there and usually on time? If the answers are all YES, you'd be a fool to let the guy go, he's one in a thousand. Try teaching him some theory along the way if you want, but don't be an idiot and make it the all important factor. Theory is not required - cooperation, punctuality, dependability, practice and willingness to tailor his sound to the band and songs are the requirements.

Froggy McHop
12-30-2007, 01:18 PM
Not many bands have members in which every single one writes music. Although yes, it is nice if a certain band member knows how to contribute best to the song.

What's wrong with you and other members writing a song and tabbing it out for him?

He's a rhythm player, it's not in his job description to bust out an improvised solo over a jazz progression.

take_it_t
12-30-2007, 01:39 PM
Well you may want to explain how this screws up your plans. I'm not saying it doesn't, but it would be nice for you to explain how his lack of theory effects you.

Zycho
12-30-2007, 03:08 PM
If he can play and fits into the band, who the **** cares?

valennic
12-30-2007, 05:34 PM
^yes, he is good enough to play, which is all I looked for at first, and now I find out he barely knows what a chord is, let alone what the hell a scale is... is suppose he would know if I took a couple of weeks to tell him, but I don't know.

valennic
12-30-2007, 05:37 PM
you guys do make a lot of sense, especially Paleo Pete, so alright, I'll give it a shot. He does seem like he wants to play so, yeah. Oh and I explained the plan thing earlier in the thread.

shredder1223
12-30-2007, 07:02 PM
Don't be a prick. You got him for your band now give him a chance.

Try to help him learn theory.

axemanchris
12-31-2007, 09:28 AM
If he can play and fits into the band, who the **** cares?

+1. And I'm a total theory-lovin' nerd.

Our drummer and other guitarist don't know a lick of theory. It's no big deal.

I know a guy with at least one gold record on his wall and a Juno award (Canadian music award) for "best guitarist" or something like that who can't tell you that a G major scale has an F# in it, or he can't name the note on the third string 11th fret. He can shred with most of the best of them, though. He also has one of the most amazing ear's I have ever worked with.

I know another guy with multiple gold and platinum albums who only started to learn theory later in life..... after the "rock star" life started to settle down, and most certainly after he received most of those gold and platinum albums.

CT

Paleo Pete
12-31-2007, 10:35 AM
I know a guy with at least one gold record on his wall and a Juno award (Canadian music award) for "best guitarist" or something like that who can't tell you that a G major scale has an F# in it, or he can't name the note on the third string 11th fret

Same for me, except that I don't have any records on the wall, gold or otherwise...but I'm one of the best guitar players in this area, definitely top 10, maybe top 5, can keep up with any band in town, write a bit and can also play sax, keyboards, drums, bass, a little flute, and learned every instrument in the band room in high school, also played baritone sax in jazz band. I've never practiced a scale in my life except for sax, and hated every minute of it, use scales very little in solos, and couldn't tell you what note I played at any certain point if you put a gun up my nose. I Just play what "feels right", let my mind and fingers wander and 90% of the time it works. I do now and then use a bit of a "scale", but only if it fits and gets me to the next chord change in a tasteful way.

Lots of professional musicians who have recorded hit records for the past 30 years or more knew no theory at all until much later in their careers. Clapton, Gilmour, Page, Trower, many others...I don't think Lennon and McCartney did either but not sure.

Under_The_Oath
12-31-2007, 08:45 PM
What the **** is it with people having lameass problems with band members...?

No one in my band would even CONSIDER kicking anyone else out, even though I know practically no theory. You don't HAVE to know theory, so leave the dude in your band and STOP being a dickhead.

ProfLonghair90
12-31-2007, 08:54 PM
I never took lessons. I don't know how to read music. I don't know notes. And I've written 10 songs.

I am in two bands and doing very well. It not one of those things where you just "AWW THE HELL WITH YOU" and kick out for.

Another bassist
01-01-2008, 02:30 AM
Teach him. Duh. I mean, if you're going to kick this guy out without giving him a fair chance, then maybe YOU aren't ready to be in a band.

SlackerBabbath
01-01-2008, 01:49 PM
^Well if I'm writing a song in certain key using certain modes and scales and such, and he doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about, he can't keep a rhythm for it. You may be different but I don't know.
Then just sit him down and show him how you want him to play it.
There's always a way around not knowing too much theory, but if he's naturaly talented, he could end up being a phenominal player as many of them do.
Just because he has a different aproach to yourself, that doesn't mean it's going to be a disadvantage.
Our guitarist hardly knows any theory but he's an increadible player that can just pick up a guitar and jam along with anything.

valennic
01-04-2008, 10:09 PM
okay, I didn't say I was going to kick him out in the first place, and all I wanted was maybe some tips on writing music with someone who doesn't know theory, because I've only ever seen him play, and all the guitarists I've played with know theory, so any advice is welcome.

classicrocker01
01-05-2008, 01:21 AM
I agree with everything Paleo Pete has said. I don't know **** about theory and know one scale (even though I don't know it's name) and I can jam with the band as good as anybody. Sorry if I sound arrogent but I'm just making a point. Show him the notes and just go with it.:cheers:

TimbreWolf
01-05-2008, 05:04 PM
^Well if I'm writing a song in certain key using certain modes and scales and such, and he doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about, he can't keep a rhythm for it. You may be different but I don't know.

how long has he been playing? and i hope just because he is self taught you arent judging him even more, because there are alot of great guitarist who didnt pay for lessons.

axemanchris
01-05-2008, 05:41 PM
okay, I didn't say I was going to kick him out in the first place, and all I wanted was maybe some tips on writing music with someone who doesn't know theory, because I've only ever seen him play, and all the guitarists I've played with know theory, so any advice is welcome.

Avoid jargon. Telling him that the chord progression goes from the subdominant to the dominant before resolving to the tonic, for instance, is pointless. You have to talk to him on his level. Don't make the mistake of talking to him like he's an idiot though either.

Try singing a part like: Okay, the first chorus is going to go, "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah." The chords that go over it are these ones. [play them] Where can we take that?

He might answer with something like "and you know that can't be bad."

Then you work together to find the chords to go with the new musical phrase that he just wrote. :cool:

CT

valennic
01-05-2008, 06:29 PM
^thanks, i'll try that, see how it works.