Band member problem


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suckmahnuts
01-06-2008, 10:34 AM
so my band is currently looking for a singer and we stumbled upon this chick is is an amazing singer. so we invited her to our next band practice. But now one of our guitarists is complaining that he doesn't want to be in a chick band like paramore.
so what are some things to get him to open up to the fact we might have a chick singer?

EdawMail
01-06-2008, 10:37 AM
tell him to get a grip
or kick his ass
or make him drool over her

ginjaninja
01-06-2008, 10:40 AM
listen to flyleaf =]]

tell him that you get a chick singer, and do well because there are few bands like yours out there, or you dont get a chcick singer, never have a singer, and play greenday without vocals foreverandever.

edit: ive just realised, that if shes hot, well. yep. shes hot. that kinda explains itself doesnt it?

pagefan
01-06-2008, 10:41 AM
girls have large vocal ranges, and can do most things that a male singer can do.

kaptink
01-06-2008, 10:41 AM
I'd say he does have a point that sometimes a female singer can take attention away from the rest of the band like Paramore but the fact that she is female shouldn't be a issue if you are decent musicians.

SomeEvilDude
01-06-2008, 10:42 AM
Guitarists are not difficult to find.

Tell him that there's no harm in giving it a try, and if doesn't feel right with a girl fronting the band you'll change it. But if it's alright, and he's still unhappy, tell him to clear off.

wheeltrain
01-06-2008, 10:42 AM
run a train on her and kick her out

BobMarleysGhost
01-06-2008, 10:45 AM
Show him Nightwish.

mh400nt
01-06-2008, 10:46 AM
He sounds like fucking cunt matey. How sexist can you get? Tell him to live with it or kick him out.

»RaTm«
01-06-2008, 11:20 AM
i can see where hes coming from cuz sumtimes a girl singer CAN make your band rock a little less. Tell him to listen 2 a song by Kitten

v8ko
01-06-2008, 05:00 PM
At the end of the day it doesnt matter if you have a chick singer or a dude. Its who fills that spot the best. In my experience its different writting music for female singers...take that for what it is, hopefully she brings writing skills along with her.

Ability and attitude is far more important the gender.

Zen5887
01-06-2008, 08:39 PM
+1 to nigthwish and its Kitty (or kittie..O cant remember >.>') but the heart is still there.

Make sure that that band memebers and the singer are on the same wave lengh. We had a female singer once - It was good untill we wanted to do more heavy stuff like AC/DC and metallica. Just be carefull - Just cos she is an awesome singer doesnt mean shes gonna suit your band.

As for the wanker guitarist show him some awesome bands with female singers..Nightwish and Kitty are a good start

liarxliar
01-08-2008, 04:18 PM
Kick him out and keep the singer. If he's going to be all shovensitic like that, then its not worth it. Its easier to find a guitarist then a (good)singer anyway.

Or, convince him that having a girl lead singer doesn't mean your going to be a "chick" band.

(Though, being a girl, i'd kick him out)

Damascus
01-08-2008, 04:40 PM
I have, in the cliche style, two words for you.

JEFFERSON. AIRPLANE.

(That's Grace Slick...)

Add to that Garbage, Hole, Nightwish, Alanis Morissette, Annie Lennox, Blondie, The Cranberries, Evanescence, Big Brother & The Holding Company w/Janis Joplin, Velvet Underground w/Nico, The Mamas & Papas, No Doubt, The Pixies, The Pogues, The Yeah Yeah Yeahs.

All bands that have either lead or ocassional female vocals. Most are great to a various degree, and they definitely show that female vocalists are not just a gimmick or an oddity.

I can understand your guitarists' perspective if he doesn't think a female voice can achieve the sound he wants the vocals to have - say, gritty or low etc - but unless this is his gripe, you need to tell him to wise up.


EDIT: If he's going to be all shovensitic like that
Chauvinistic. Like I said, if this is the reason, then he needs to wise up, but if his problem is that a female vocalist physically cannot do what he wants your band's vocals to do, then he has a valid, non-sexist point. It's not her fault she's female and can't do what he wants, but on the flip-side, it's not his fault she's female and can't do what he wants. Even if this is his problem, I'd still try to convince him to at least give her a go (which he pretty much has to do if he's being reasonable), because if she's a good singer, he'll probably forget that she can't growl death metal.

jimRH7
01-08-2008, 04:53 PM
call me sexist, but i for one can see where he's coming from. alot of female fronted bands can become totally centered round the girl, and the band become glorified session musicians. a good example is Texas.

Paleo Pete
01-09-2008, 08:37 AM
Look at Sheryl Crow, Heart, Janis Joplin, Pat Benatar and Lita Ford and try to tell me girls can't rock...Ann Wilson (Heart) can play circles around your guitar player I'd be willing to bet. SHe's one of the most talented guitar players I've ever seen live. MOst of Heart's lead work was her, not the guy guitar player.

Lita Ford...Don't know that much about her, but I saw her on a MTV guitar greats show, they put her onstage with Tony Iommi. She blew Sabbath's guitar player right out the door...

I've played and sat in with bands with female singers, or fronted by them and always liked it pretty well. A female vocalist can extend the band's range of capabilities, or limit them, whichever way you let it go.

This guy needs to get a life, music is not just for guys. It's already been pointed out, guitar players are not hard to find, he should be willing to at least give this girl a chance, if the band then decides to keep her as vocalist he can live with it or you can find a replacement.

But do yourselves a huge favor, avoid having every guy in the band constantly trying to hit on her, I promise she'll eventually get tired of it, probably pretty quick, and it WILL break up the band if you let it happen. Focus on music, not getting her into the bedroom. If you can't do that you might as well write it off and move on, it'll never work. She has to be just "one of the guys" or it's over before it ever starts. And just so you'll know, it's not easy for her to do either. Getting along in an all male group will be a major challenge for her too.

jimRH7
01-09-2008, 10:31 AM
An exelent point Paloe Pete!

I went to see motorhead when Crucified Barbra were the support. They played an exelent set, But afterwards all folk talked about was how fit they were, the music was completly tossed to the side whereas any other support band would have sparked an deep intelectual disscusion on music.

I probably couldn't function in a Rock band with a girl cause most songs i write are at the Whitesnake level of songs about women. I just wouldn't be comfortable saying to a girl That i know and respect well enough to play with in a band that i view her and every other women as objects, cause i don't, unless i'm writing a song!

Kurapica
01-09-2008, 02:17 PM
Don't forget The Donna's, they know how to rock ;)

But yeah, tell him to deal with it and see how it all comes together. It could sound awful or it could just work a treat. He'd be cutting off his nose to spite his face.

Zycho
01-09-2008, 10:38 PM
I'm not sexist or anything but personally I would never want to be in a band with a girl singer. They almost always end up taking the spotlight and you end up becoming a backing band instead of a band.

Imafrog
01-10-2008, 03:22 AM
Yeah, man...if shes hot, just tell him shes single...bam...you have a singer.

dullsilver_mike
01-10-2008, 05:30 AM
Why are so many of you fellas so obsessed with not letting someone else have the spotlight? I mean honestly--scared you won't get as much recognition in the band? Personally I'd be happy making music with a woman who got all the attention because I'd still be making music. I don't give a rat's ass about getting equal treatment in the minds of the audience as long as I know I'm actually an important part of their musical experience whether they know it or not.

If she becomes a front"man" that has a lot of charisma and brings more people to shows then by all means let her steal the spotlight. The audience doesn't have to know that everyone in the band is equal as long as that's how it really is.

Kurapica
01-10-2008, 09:52 AM
^ That's true.

Also, it's all about a member in the band wanting to shine. The amount of times I've seen female fronted bands where she's jumping around, with the band standing around sedate...it's crazy. No wonder they don't get noticed.

trey-col89
01-10-2008, 11:14 AM
Honestly, theres probably not much you can do to change his mind and he might end up quitting (I did when my old band got a girl singer). Theres just a stigma attached to current bands who have guys who play instruments and girls who are the frontman (frontwoman in this case). I'm sorry, but its true. If you're playing at a school show or something, no ones going to care or take you seriously, I know from EXPERIENCE because I've played shows with a female singer while the instruments were played by all guys, I'm not just being a chauvanistic asshole. The focus ends up totally on her and she becomes Avril Lavigne and you guys become her back up band. I'm not saying kick her out, you're free to do what you want, but I'm just saying what happened to my old band, and why you're friend probably isn't going to open up to the idea of having a girl singer.

Listing bands like "OH JEFFERSON AIRPLANE, VELVET UNDERGROUND, MAMAS AND PAPAS, bla bla bla" as a rationale for having a female singer for a band of all males is pointless because the 60s were a different time. Even up until 10 or 15 years ago, having a female singer wasn't a big deal (especially if she also played an instrument or some of the other band members take lead vocals every now and then), but since the whole pop punk craze with Avril Lavigne or Ashley Simpson or whoever, having a female as your sole vocalist shifts the attention away from the band and more towards her as the singer. Plus, guys will most likely just judge the whole band on the looks of your singer, which isn't a good thing, but hey thats life.

So all in all, your friend will most likely not change his mind.

EDIT: Oh, and having a hot female singer is NOT a good thing, as all of the other bandmembers will end up fighting over her, not only driving her away, but ruining the relationship of you and your bandmates (in some cases even your friendships).

stratkat
01-10-2008, 11:47 AM
A guitarist is a lot easier to find then a singer.

Strati
01-10-2008, 01:43 PM
Call me sexist as well, I wouldn't call myself one but here's my view:

I tend to see girls as singers a cheap way to get around the "we need a singer" stage. There's alot more girls out there singing than guys, and it's easy to see the band as "cheap" when they get fropnted by a singer.

My oppinion, but I also belive that if the rets of the band is cool with it, try convince him. If he doesn't want to, it's his choice if he leaves or not.

monkey_dancer
01-10-2008, 02:52 PM
This is ridiculous. Pick a singer who suits the music you play/want to play in the future, and somebody whose writing can mesh with that of the existing members. If this guitarist doesn't agree that she fits the band then he obviously has different views on how the band should sound (unless he really is just a shallow egoistic prick who is bothered about being upstaged, which, if he was good, wouldn't happen) and might not fit himself.

trey-col89, have you not noticed that the two examples of female singers which you gave are actually solo artists with bands who are quite openly their backing bands? If the band is a real band (as a collective), and not just a vehicle for the singer (male or female) then that sort of thing shouldn't happen unless the singer really is the most talented member.

Admittedly, singers get more attention, but thats a fact of being in a band and its true whether that singer is male or female. Also, some people might judge your band on the looks of a female singer, but those aren't the sort of people I'd want to know/have as fans anyway.

dullsilver_mike
01-10-2008, 04:07 PM
Listing bands like "OH JEFFERSON AIRPLANE, VELVET UNDERGROUND, MAMAS AND PAPAS, bla bla bla" as a rationale for having a female singer for a band of all males is pointless because the 60s were a different time. Even up until 10 or 15 years ago, having a female singer wasn't a big deal (especially if she also played an instrument or some of the other band members take lead vocals every now and then), but since the whole pop punk craze with Avril Lavigne or Ashley Simpson or whoever, having a female as your sole vocalist shifts the attention away from the band and more towards her as the singer. Plus, guys will most likely just judge the whole band on the looks of your singer, which isn't a good thing, but hey thats life.


IF those artists came along and changed the expectation for that type of band, thus creating this stigma, then new bands can come along and take it away. So many talented people I know have ****ty bands because they only fill the expectations of the current music scene, rather than trying to be original and progressive.

lolmnt
01-10-2008, 04:23 PM
This is ridiculous. Pick a singer who suits the music you play/want to play in the future, and somebody whose writing can mesh with that of the existing members. If this guitarist doesn't agree that she fits the band then he obviously has different views on how the band should sound (unless he really is just a shallow egoistic prick who is bothered about being upstaged, which, if he was good, wouldn't happen) and might not fit himself.

trey-col89, have you not noticed that the two examples of female singers which you gave are actually solo artists with bands who are quite openly their backing bands? If the band is a real band (as a collective), and not just a vehicle for the singer (male or female) then that sort of thing shouldn't happen unless the singer really is the most talented member.

Admittedly, singers get more attention, but thats a fact of being in a band and its true whether that singer is male or female. Also, some people might judge your band on the looks of a female singer, but those aren't the sort of people I'd want to know/have as fans anyway.I like when people type up what I'm thinking, that way I don't have to. If she mixes with the band, is a good singer, can write good songs, and play instrument (it's a plus, but not required) then she should be in the band. It's alot harder to find singers than guitar players anyways.

We'realltoBlame
01-10-2008, 06:42 PM
Tell him you'll still play the same kind of music,and if he doesn't deal guitarists are easier to find than great vocalists.
I'm in a band with three girl singers,and a girl on drums and I'm not unhappy with our sound at all.

trey-col89
01-10-2008, 07:30 PM
trey-col89, have you not noticed that the two examples of female singers which you gave are actually solo artists with bands who are quite openly their backing bands? If the band is a real band (as a collective), and not just a vehicle for the singer (male or female) then that sort of thing shouldn't happen unless the singer really is the most talented member.
It doesn't matter what you think should or shouldn't happen or that just because you know the band members all have equal share doesn't mean your audience will know.. or even care for that matter. People will see a frontwoman and instantly get the impression I said. I experienced it.

irish_hooligan
01-10-2008, 08:23 PM
give him an option, either she sings.....or he sings. :)

ObliviousEnd
01-10-2008, 09:18 PM
give him an option, either she sings.....or he sings. :)
that was my option with a cocky player,so i decided to sing and so far so decent...

dullsilver_mike
01-11-2008, 05:06 AM
It doesn't matter what you think should or shouldn't happen or that just because you know the band members all have equal share doesn't mean your audience will know.. or even care for that matter. People will see a frontwoman and instantly get the impression I said. I experienced it.

My main point to this is: who cares? At least it gets you an audience and you get to make music.

SlackerBabbath
01-11-2008, 12:35 PM
I'm not sexist or anything but personally I would never want to be in a band with a girl singer. They almost always end up taking the spotlight and you end up becoming a backing band instead of a band.
That's not because they're female, it's because they're the lead singer. It's their job to take most of the spotlight, that's why they call them frontmen... or frontwomen... or possibly even frontpersons..

trey-col89
01-11-2008, 01:42 PM
My main point to this is: who cares? At least it gets you an audience and you get to make music.
My main point to this is: I would. If I'm the one pouring my heart and sole into writing music, I'll be damned if I'm going to take a back seat to some chick who just happens to sing. I mean, thats great that you wouldn't care to be some girl's back up band as long as you "get to make music", but I would not have fun in that situation. How do I know? I was in that situation, and didn't like it. Its not fun, you sort of get this "what am I doing this for?" feeling.

lolmnt
01-11-2008, 03:16 PM
My main point to this is: I would. If I'm the one pouring my heart and sole into writing music, I'll be damned if I'm going to take a back seat to some chick who just happens to sing. I mean, thats great that you wouldn't care to be some girl's back up band as long as you "get to make music", but I would not have fun in that situation. How do I know? I was in that situation, and didn't like it. Its not fun, you sort of get this "what am I doing this for?" feeling.She should be pouring as much of herself into the music as you are. I wouldn't play with anybody, male or female, that isn't putting thier heart into thier music.

trey-col89
01-11-2008, 04:27 PM
That wasn't really my point.

The other guy said that he wouldn't care if he got no spotlight and it all went to the female singer as long as he was able to "make music", but my response to that was, why wouldn't you care? If you're gigging, you are obviously doing it to play for people and get recognition, are you not? If not, you might as well just jam in your mom's basement for the rest of your musical career, and theres no problem with that if thats what you want. For me, I want to play in front of people, and if I am making said music, I want it to be known. I don't want to be shoved to the side because the singer in my band happens to be a girl.

dullsilver_mike
01-11-2008, 04:38 PM
I want to bring a messege to the people to help em out... I don't care if they don't know I'm the one who writes the lyrics, structures the songs, and works hard to get it out there as long as they're getting it :)

trey-col89
01-11-2008, 05:54 PM
Thats where you and I differ, but agree to disagree. I mean, maybe you don't really understand where I am coming from, maybe I'm just bad at explaining it... and its really not a big deal, I'm not a sexist chauvanistic pig who wants to hold down all female musicians or singers, but theres a difference between being that guitarist from Evanescence (I don't know his name, perhaps thats my point) and being Paul Kantner or Jorma Kaukonen.

We'realltoBlame
01-11-2008, 11:12 PM
trey-col89,you'll still most likely take back seat to a guy if he's on vox and has enough stage presence anyway.

BrokenStrings
01-12-2008, 12:25 AM
I don't that problem, but a question concerning female singers.
This girl was at my house for a school project and when we finished i was showing her some stuff on the guitar cuz she just started taking lessons. I wowed her of course. Then she asked me "do you know Fergie...big girls dont cry" Im like "i listened to the intro on the radio once" then she says "you shud learn it"
I then got the tabs on the spot and started playing and she began to sing along. I nearly shat myself. Ive known her for several years but did not know she cud sing.
I was just talking to her and we are gonna get together and try to do some stuff...
I plan on taking her poetry and putting some kickass guitar part over it. But other than that I have no clue where to start.
Any Suggestions?

Pr3vieWX360
01-12-2008, 01:30 AM
haha my band had pretty much the exact same problem. The drummer and bassist want this girl to be the singer who can sing pretty well, and me and the other guitarist dont want a girl as a singer. I dont mind being in a band wih a girl playing an instrument, but just not singing. Id hate to be one of "those" bands...

trey-col89
01-12-2008, 02:37 AM
trey-col89,you'll still most likely take back seat to a guy if he's on vox and has enough stage presence anyway.
Its not really the same thing though. Look at the Strokes for example, their singer Julian is a pretty charasmatic frontman, but at the same time all of the other guys are noted for being really good on their isntruments.

We'realltoBlame
01-12-2008, 10:52 AM
Its not really the same thing though. Look at the Strokes for example, their singer Julian is a pretty charasmatic frontman, but at the same time all of the other guys are noted for being really good on their isntruments.
Here's a good one tho:a while back i thik it was Guitar World had a little article on Paramore. and guess what. They didin't just talk about Hayley,they actually spent more time talking about the guitarist.

pandora_grunt
01-12-2008, 11:08 AM
@ TS: Depends totally on her style of singing and taste of music. If it matches she's a keeper. Just try her out.

Now as for the discussion about front(wo)man.

These people have to carry the show on their shoulders and usually voice as well. They're supposed to be noticed cause lyrics are there to get the crowd going (singing along) or spread the message.

However this does not mean they get to to take all the attention. But that's where the quality in playing comes forth. If you can play in a way your noticed (awesome solo's, big stage presence) people will give you attention. But if you're nothing more then a standard guitar player in a band, don't expect the eyes on you. Saying that a frontwoman takes all the attention is kind of harsh. But do not think I'm denying that they got more then a frontman: guys have a tendency to check out woman.

As for female vocals making your band rock less. It's because female vocals are often more by softer music. Their style simply is not rock.

In the end it all adds up and theres no one to blame, just drop the entire anti-woman act. Personally I'd say it makes you look bad.

freshtunes
01-12-2008, 09:58 PM
Tell him he can get your sloppy seconds.

Assasaurus
01-12-2008, 10:55 PM
Here's a good one tho:a while back i thik it was Guitar World had a little article on Paramore. and guess what. They didin't just talk about Hayley,they actually spent more time talking about the guitarist.

I would have never guessed. :rolleyes:

lesspaul6
01-13-2008, 12:40 AM
tell him to step up to the mike or shut his pie hole

ACDCfrontman
01-13-2008, 01:02 AM
well at least its a guitarist thats complaining......because there are TONS of guitarists out there, a good singer is much harder to find than a good guitarist, so tell him to screw off if he doesnt like her and you'll be able to find another guitarist real quick

axl-is-awesome
01-16-2008, 07:52 PM
dude i have chick singer that is unbelieveable.oh my god she is a legend!i didnt think anyone could sing in my little town.but dude u can find guitarists like tabs on UG.singers are alot harder to come by.be thankful.my band went nearly 3 years without a singer.yeah i'd know.

The Fret-Dancer
01-16-2008, 07:59 PM
Hes an idiot. it makes you a unique band. Not many bands have female members. I wish they're was a female member in my band. Girls rock!

cochese788
01-16-2008, 11:05 PM
I didn't bother reading all of the replies, but anyways...

It's easier to find another guitar player than trying to find a good singer

I am the Drake
01-19-2008, 02:17 PM
Do it

SlackerBabbath
01-19-2008, 02:27 PM
I don't that problem, but a question concerning female singers.
This girl was at my house for a school project and when we finished i was showing her some stuff on the guitar cuz she just started taking lessons. I wowed her of course. Then she asked me "do you know Fergie...big girls dont cry" Im like "i listened to the intro on the radio once" then she says "you shud learn it"
I then got the tabs on the spot and started playing and she began to sing along. I nearly shat myself. Ive known her for several years but did not know she cud sing.
I was just talking to her and we are gonna get together and try to do some stuff...
I plan on taking her poetry and putting some kickass guitar part over it. But other than that I have no clue where to start.
Any Suggestions?
I'd say you were doing the right thing. Do the thing with the poetry you suggested then take it back to her and see what she thinks. Tell her to be absolutely critical before playing it to her and if there are any parts she's not too sure about, collaberate with her until you're both happy with the results. This makes for the best kind of writing partnerships.

Threadstarter. Read what cochese788 says two posts up. ^
It's absolutely correct.

Skippy_McNutty
01-19-2008, 08:12 PM
Just because you have a chick singer doesn't mean you'll be like Paramore. Unless you're heavily influenced by them then you probably will, but if your guitarist doesn't want to sound like Paramore I'm assuming your not heavily influenced by them.

Dimster Ds
01-19-2008, 09:01 PM
Well, the pros and cons are

Pros: you'll have a singer

Cons: you will look like one of those wannabe bands

I would never get a chick singer because of the cons, but, if she is right for you, than get her

Damascus
01-20-2008, 01:03 AM
but theres a difference between being that guitarist from Evanescence (I don't know his name, perhaps thats my point) and being Paul Kantner or Jorma Kaukonen.

Yeah, Kaukonen could write "Embryotic Journey" and Kantner could write "Blows Against The Empire." The guitarist from Evanescence can write...Evanescence guitar parts. The reason you don't know his name is because he's not creative enough to be noticed. Kaukonen and Kantner were, despite having a colossally charasmatic, mysterious, vocally impressive frontwomen in their band.

Bottom line - if you're getting ignored because you have a female singer, it's your fault, not theirs.


EDIT: BrokenStrings:
I plan on taking her poetry and putting some kickass guitar part over it. But other than that I have no clue where to start.

Change 'her' to 'his' and 'guitar' to 'keyboard' and you have the start of The Doors. Sounds like a good start to me.

BrokenStrings
01-20-2008, 04:33 PM
Cool so sounds like I have a good place to start.

TOMMYB22
01-22-2008, 07:25 AM
i dont think he is trying to be sexist. but a female vocalist changes your sound, and assuming she will be your songwriter the lyrics and the lyrics can define your image

the gender of your singer could be be the difference between being avril lavigne or blink 182 if you get my point

silver_and_cold
02-22-2008, 08:23 PM
well
not all girl singers make bands sound like paramore
she doesn't have to be the centre of attention either..

he just need to try it out before he quits or somethng like that...