good jazz scales?


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the_axis
02-06-2008, 10:23 PM
i've been learning jazz for awhile and i've learned all the modes, but i have yet to ever actually see an example of someone improvising with modes. so could anyone give me some examples of good jazz modes, and point me to some songs i could look up? thanks

metalsincebirth
02-06-2008, 10:29 PM
use the jazz and milidoxian

vjferrara
02-06-2008, 10:29 PM
well, if you want to hear some good modal usage go listen to anything from the baroque era or renaissance era. they didn't have major and minor scales as we know it so all they used were modes. if you're not into that, listen to pretty much anything steve vai

Chromylchloride
02-06-2008, 10:33 PM
i don't really like the milidoxian mode, it sounds too fake. i prefer the mixolydian....

NotAJock2Day
02-06-2008, 10:40 PM
they didn't have major and minor scales as we know it so all they used were modes.

LOL.

Yeah, major and minor scales are modes too.

All scales are jazz scales if you play them over the right chords, which is really the challenge of jazz when compared to blues soloing. You have to be mindful of chord changes all while keeping the "jazz feel." There is no single, defining jazz scale. Soloing well in this type of genre often utilizes tensions which don't really fall within the scale anyway.

BluesLP1990
02-08-2008, 02:09 PM
i don't really like the milidoxian mode, it sounds too fake. i prefer the mixolydian....

Bravo! :golfclap:

meh!
02-08-2008, 03:22 PM
LOL.

Yeah, major and minor scales are modes too.



What he means is that during the Rennasiance period pieces were based around modes (Plainchants being a good example). It wasn't until the Baroque period that the Major/Minor way of looking at music evolved. It's not that funny ;P;

Led man32
02-10-2008, 11:28 PM
diminished scales
all the major modes mostly lydian, dorian, and mixolydian
melodic minor, altered, lydian dominant
whole tone

Are the main ones some others are
harmonic minor
bebop scale
blues scale

Rebelw/outaCord
02-11-2008, 03:39 PM
Well, now that you know your modes, you have to learn to use them. The most important thing in jazz harmony is the ii V I cadence, which is what dictates where you use what modes.

Start by looking at harmonic analysis of a couple of pieces to learn common changes... Find the ii-V-I cadences. Learn to play Dorian over ii, Mixolydian over V, and Lydian over I, and transfer between them comfortably.

You'll start to notice that your Dorian scale has all of the notes from your ii-7 arpeggio, and C lydian contains your IM7 arpeggio, so you can use those too. Most of the time in realistic jazz situations, though, there will be some alterations made to the V7 chord; so next you should work on variations like the altered scale, bebop scale, etc.

This is obviously very simplified. There are lots of really good books out on the subject... I'd start with one of those.

Nick_
02-11-2008, 08:00 PM
Modal jazz uses modes (but not to "follow" chords - they play over static vamps of one chord, say, dm7)

Most other jazz stems from the bebop tradition, which really doesn't use modes at all but instead focuses on chords and alterations.

But you're lucky - there are only ACTUALLY three chords in jazz: the ii, the V and the I/i. Any chord you see in moving changes can and should be treated as one of these - this means you jump key centres a lot.

Rebelw/outaCord
02-13-2008, 01:39 PM
The modes and chords are really the same thing.
Look at it this way

Cmaj13
C E G B D F A

in order, what's that?

C D E F G A B

Sound a lot like the C ionian mode, yes? If you focus on scales and chords as the same thing, you'll be able to make lines that sound more free. Just learn your "avoid" notes.

Nick_
02-13-2008, 11:31 PM
The whole idea of avoid notes can basically be boiled down to "avoid creating b9s unless you are trying to create dissonance"

That is the way I recommend you conceptualize, though: not scales, but extended chords. Really they're the same thing, just played in seconds or thirds. Fourths (quartal voicing) is a whole 'nother ballpark.

kill_busted
02-14-2008, 05:57 AM
bebop.. standard.

MrBlues
02-14-2008, 06:16 AM
I really like the whole tone scale when playing over Diminished chords. i know its not guitar but if you look up 'woody n you' by Dizzy Gillespie its a good example of this.

Shackman10
02-14-2008, 07:50 AM
well, if you want to hear some good modal usage go listen to anything from the baroque era or renaissance era. they didn't have major and minor scales as we know it so all they used were modes. if you're not into that, listen to pretty much anything steve vai

Never even put Steve Vai and baroque music in the same paragraph, Steve Vai does not deserve to be talked about in the presence of Bach.

Nightfyre
03-01-2008, 12:49 AM
well, if you want to hear some good modal usage go listen to anything from the baroque era or renaissance era. they didn't have major and minor scales as we know it so all they used were modes. if you're not into that, listen to pretty much anything steve vai
Show me a Baroque piece that's modal. Major and the 3 minor scales, yes, but not modal. Early Baroque maybe, but beyind that modes were essentially out until the 20th century.
+1 to the guy who said never again to Vai + Baroque.
On-topic: Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian, Lydian Dominant, minor scales but especially harmonic and melodic minor, whole-tone, diminished scales, symmetrical augmented scale.