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meh!
08-21-2008, 04:24 PM
Sexual repression? Please. How is anyone being sexually repressed?


Porn sexually represses people, I think. I thought that was part of the whole point. If a man starts to look at women has something for them to ****, how are they free to honestly explore sex with a partner?

meh

Terror Kovenant
08-21-2008, 04:25 PM
Darling, I am far more intelligent and far more successful than you, so no I am not stupid. But thank you for the enquiry.

You are the one defending the standpoint of sad lifeless little boys who feel compulsed to touch themselves over women that they have no chance with being degraded. Take a look at what you're defending and tell me who's the stupid one...

I highly doubt your intelligence, especially considering enquiry and compulsed aren't words. I also doubt your success over my Officer status in the military. So everyone who watches porn is a lifeless little boy? You fail. It is you who is making the more assumptive statements than I am. All I did was blame all the girls who join the porn industry.

Kenny77
08-21-2008, 04:25 PM
I don't know about you, but all my male friends talk badly of women, as a slut, a whore. No respect. When they talk about that stuff, I keep my mouth shut and cringe.

As for women, most women I have see here expect to be treated unequally. If I don't jokingly (oh but they take it very seriously, to heart, and cherish it) call them some sort of insult damaging their womanhood or I don't talk about sex as an activity as commonplace as breathing, they won't even consider me.

These days, you have to talk dirty. You have to think dirty. If you don't, you're out of the game.

And to all of you who disagree, shut the fuck up. You know it's true. You may love it or you may hate it, but you know it is true.

Yep. :golfclap:

EDIT: Golf clap for telling it how it is, not supporting how it is.

PatchworkMan
08-21-2008, 04:27 PM
The fact that North America and most western cultures demonizes anything and everything that is sexual.

If that weren't true, this debate would not exist.
Bull****. Every show on television in this country has sex in it.

Look at the Victorian Age. Most modern thought on psychology came from it and a majority of those theories are based on sex. That was one of the most sexually repressed times.
Yeah, you just proved that you know absolutely nothing about psychology.

You cannot deny people their biological needs and urges and still expect them to be healthy.
Nobody is denying anyone sex. I don't see any laws against sex anywhere. BTW, you can live without splooging. Try it sometime.

darkstar2466
08-21-2008, 04:28 PM
I like you more and more everyday. Wanna go make some gay porn?

omg u liek gai 2 lets go dued

Terror Kovenant
08-21-2008, 04:29 PM
Nobody is denying anyone sex. I don't see any laws against sex anywhere. BTW, you can live without splooging. Try it sometime.

Yeah you can, but who the hell wants to?!?!

asmeister
08-21-2008, 04:30 PM
I'm finding it kind of funny that it seems like the "porn degrades women"-crowd seem to base their arguments pretty much solely on the premise that woman are well, women.

After all, women are helpless. They simply cannot function without some masculine guidance. The man sits here, decides is porn ok or not, because it seems like women simply aren't capable of making rational decisions on the profession (poor women, forced by their broken childhood, there is no other way), and the other women simply cannot deal with degradation from males, the poor female gender is in its entirety, a victim of male oppression. It's like they get broken if you don't act upon it on an internet message board. Sounds to me like the degrading nature is on the other end of this discussion.

You know, here's a newsflash. People get abused and degraded daily.

kennyvspenny
08-21-2008, 04:31 PM
it is a wonderful, beautiful thing. it degrades no one.

maybe the camera man. thank god for tripods, right!

Mistress_Ibanez
08-21-2008, 04:31 PM
I highly doubt your intelligence, especially considering enquiry and compulsed aren't words. I also doubt your success over my Officer status in the military. So everyone who watches porn is a lifeless little boy? You fail. It is you who is making the more assumptive statements than I am. All I did was blame all the girls who join the porn industry.



They are both words. Please refer to google if you don't believe me.

Officer status in the military? Well thanks for validating my statement, I do get a good laugh out of arguing with self-proclaimed american army types.

I'm going to turn off my laptop and go out now, I do hope you enjoy your petty anger.



Oh and "all I did was blame all the girls who join the porn industry"

This is not true.

You blamed all women. I quoted it incase you realised and wanted to edit it in your favour.

technicolour
08-21-2008, 04:31 PM
i disagree with whoever said "it only degrades the chick in the vid"

i think it degrades other women more. it gives people (particularly young people) the mentality that its alright to treat women as they are treated in porn.

you can argue against that till your blue in the face, but you will never silence the people telling each other to "put one through her!" just because they can.

Funny story....My girlfriend has a friend (who is female) who dated a boy who didn't get out much. It was his first relationship and all he know about sexual stuff was what he'd seen in porn. So one night she was giving him oral and he decides to cum on her face. She then proceeded to slap and break up with him.

haha.

PatchworkMan
08-21-2008, 04:32 PM
I'm finding it kind of funny that it seems like the "porn degrades women"-crowd seem to base their arguments pretty much solely on the premise that woman are well, women.

After all, women are helpless. They simply cannot function without some masculine guidance. The man sits here, decides is porn ok or not, because it seems like women simply aren't capable of making rational decisions on the profession (poor women, forced by their broken childhood, there is no other way), and the other women simply cannot deal with degradation from males, the poor female gender is in its entirety, a victim of male oppression. It's like they get broken if you don't act upon it on an internet message board. Sounds to me like the degrading nature is on the other end of this discussion.

You know, here's a newsflash. People get abused and degraded daily.
What are you ding on the internet? Go back to the Middle Ages.

Ashish23
08-21-2008, 04:33 PM
How is someone who has never been in a sexual relationship before supposed to know what a normal sexual relationship is like?
Same way someone who goes to a school interacts with or observes the females there, or even how their friends/classmates date. You can learn a lot from that. And by the age a kid usually starts to watch porn, he can usually tell that the people doing it aren't in relationships and thats not how they work. If he still doesn't get it, I repeat - its their parents' responsibility to talk to their kids about sex and all that.

When I was in school, they told me about how porn isn't reality and thats not how you treat women etc etc. But by age 10 I already knew it. I can assure you kids are intelligent enough to tell this stuff. The reason why more kids are confusing women and sexual relationships is a complex issue and porn has little to do with it.


How old are you? Look at magazine ads from twenty years ago, then tell me nothing has changed.

I'm 19, you're right I was -1 twenty years ago, how would I know how men were back then.
Oh, thats right, common knowledge. Commercialism doesn't encompass the entire mentality of the male race. The fact that rape, abuse and molestation is as old as time is why I'm saying that this world hasn't changed much in that view - infact, if anything, it has gotten better.

There was a time when fat women were viewed as beautiful. I'd advise you to go look into their 'magazines' and tell me if it resembles the mentality of men today.

Reason why I said men will be men is because its true, we will like boobs and ass. True that commercialism has spread that fact, but that doesn't mean that more and more people are getting shallower. Theres more to it than just porn, like I mentioned.


At the beginning of your post you were saying that the industry doesn't teach people anything. Now you're saying they're good at it. Which is it?
Business. They're good at it.

Ads, magazines, tv shows etc. etc. They know what attracts men and they cater to it. And receive profits. Wouldn't you call that successful business? Nothing unethical here, its all left upto choice.
And yes they dont teach or preach, I never said anything related to that.

Martyr's Prayer
08-21-2008, 04:33 PM
Darling, I am far more intelligent and far more successful than you, so no I am not stupid. But thank you for the enquiry.

You are the one defending the standpoint of sad lifeless little boys who feel compulsed to touch themselves over women that they have no chance with being degraded. Take a look at what you're defending and tell me who's the stupid one...

Inquiry*

I find it interesting that a few pages back I expressed my view of how women should be - better than men in an emotional, sensitive and graceful way (everything that a man lacks, therein being the view of a couple as one whole, two mutually completing halves)- and you said I had a warped view of women. And yet this whole thread you're going on about how men view women as sex objects, and they should be viewed better.

asmeister
08-21-2008, 04:33 PM
What are you ding on the internet? Go back to the Middle Ages.
Yeah. That's really middle aged. Sounds like you need to go there. Perhaps you'll find a shining armor. Then you can pretend to be a knight. Now all you need to do is find a helpless maiden in distress. Make sure she's a really helpless one, after all you've shown here that you seem to think women cannot defend, or think, or decide for themselves. That's not degrading at all.

SG Man Forever
08-21-2008, 04:34 PM
What about the guys in porn? Does that degrade me? The whole idea of porn degrading women originated from a bunch of man hating femenazis

skankdude
08-21-2008, 04:34 PM
Porn degrades my sperm count.


hay-oohhhhhhhh

Jackal58
08-21-2008, 04:35 PM
I highly doubt your intelligence, especially considering enquiry and compulsed aren't words. I also doubt your success over my Officer status in the military. So everyone who watches porn is a lifeless little boy? You fail. It is you who is making the more assumptive statements than I am. All I did was blame all the girls who join the porn industry.
I could have so much fun with that. :)

omg u liek gai 2 lets go dued
Sorry dude the moment has passed.



Bottom line is pornography is an industry that preys upon the vulnerable. If the industry was full of women that woke up one morning and said "I want to be a porn star" there would be like 3 of them.

PatchworkMan
08-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Yeah. That's really middle aged. Sounds like you need to go there. Perhaps you'll find a shining armor. Then you can pretend to be a knight. Now all you need to do is find a helpless maiden in distress. Make sure she's a really helpless one, after all you've shown here that you seem to think women cannot defend, or think, or decide for themselves. That's not degrading at all.
Perhaps you are mistaking me for someone else? It is the post to which I was responding that claimed women were unable to think and make decisions for themselves.

meh!
08-21-2008, 04:36 PM
What about the guys in porn? Does that degrade me? The whole idea of porn degrading women originated from a bunch of man hating femenazis

Yeah, those bastards feminists, how dare they have fought for women's rights for hundreds of years!

it's because they're all men-hating feminazis, that's it!

...

Wheelchair Stan
08-21-2008, 04:36 PM
Porn degrades my sperm count.

Deja vu? But still :golfclap:

asmeister
08-21-2008, 04:37 PM
Perhaps you are mistaking me for someone else? It is the post to which I was responding that claimed women were unable to think and make decisions for themselves.
See the post again, see who wrote it, and read the context.

PatchworkMan
08-21-2008, 04:38 PM
See the post again, see who wrote it, and read the context.
Ah. I see.

In any case, I don't see how saying porn degrades women is a declaration that women can't take care of themselves.

technicolour
08-21-2008, 04:39 PM
I feel sorry for guys like me who watch porn and go "right, so this stuff is obviously exaggerated, I have a pretty good idea of what's true and what isn't". And then when I go to have sex "ugggggggghhhhhhh, who would've thought it would be so hard just to get my dick in your vagina!"

meh!
08-21-2008, 04:41 PM
Ah. I see.

In any case, I don't see how saying porn degrades women is a declaration that women can't take care of themselves.


Because some people labour under the illusion that if some people go on from:

A. Poverty
B. Damaged childhood
C. Mental Disorder
D. Physical disability.
E. Addiction

To be succsesful, then everyone can and if you dont' it's your own fault.

Which is absolute bollocks, but it helps some people sleep at night, apparently.

SG Man Forever
08-21-2008, 04:42 PM
Yeah, those bastards feminists, how dare they have fought for women's rights for hundreds of years!

it's because they're all men-hating feminazis, that's it!

...

First off, feminism is less than a hundred years old.

Second off, there is a serious difference between male/female equality (which I am all for) and radical feminism, which is where we get the idea that porn is degrading, and that if I watch it, then I'm more likely to rape someone. Go to encyclopediadramatica and look up "bitingbeaver" I'd post a link myself, but theres some pornographic stuff there. These are the kind of people I'm talking about, and the sad thing is that people liker her are not uncommon.

asmeister
08-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Ah. I see.

In any case, I don't see how saying porn degrades women is a declaration that women can't take care of themselves.
It is a suggestion that people working in the industry cannot do so through rationality. Bluntly put, it suggests one has to be fücked up in the head to do so. I don't like shopping in ikea, and I don't like vanilla ice cream, I don't feel the need to think of witty childhood trauma or disorders or cocaine or anything else to justify my position on vanilla ice cream. You're free to enjoy your vanilla ice cream without me thinking you're a defective human being because of your preference, or that you do not find eating vanilla ice cream immoral.

Half the damn posts here are suggesting just that. The other half suggests it's some overbearing hindrance that some men treat women like shït. Well, I feel like I get treated like shït just about every day. Now I understand I'm an annoying bastard, but the concept is the same. The fact women are seen as some sort of novelty group downright screams that most of the people championing their cause seem to have a mindset women need help. Women are just too helpless and fragile. The rednecks that watch porn are really an oppressive bunch.

At least with children you understand that, they're physically unable to help themselves, and they lack cognitive skills.

Archaon
08-21-2008, 04:48 PM
i disagree with whoever said "it only degrades the chick in the vid"

i think it degrades other women more. it gives people (particularly young people) the mentality that its alright to treat women as they are treated in porn.

you can argue against that till your blue in the face, but you will never silence the people telling each other to "put one through her!" just because they can.
Well, hey, it's women selling their own gender out, so it can only be their fault, right?

walkinbazooka
08-21-2008, 04:49 PM
I don't know about you, but all my male friends talk badly of women, as a slut, a whore. No respect. When they talk about that stuff, I keep my mouth shut and cringe.

As for women, most women I have see here expect to be treated unequally. If I don't jokingly (oh but they take it very seriously, to heart, and cherish it) call them some sort of insult damaging their womanhood or I don't talk about sex as an activity as commonplace as breathing, they won't even consider me.

These days, you have to talk dirty. You have to think dirty. If you don't, you're out of the game.

And to all of you who disagree, shut the fuck up. You know it's true. You may love it or you may hate it, but you know it is true.
You know, and this really hasn't much to do with the thread, some women are just the same. For example, sometimes my GF slaps me around when it comes down to sexy time, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't think of men solely as sex objects.

Whether you call it masochism or degrading, it's still enjoyable.

meh!
08-21-2008, 04:51 PM
First off, feminism is less than a hundred years old.


Rubbish, read some history. You think that suffragettes were the first feminists or something?


Second off, there is a serious difference between male/female equality (which I am all for) and radical feminism, which is where we get the idea that porn is degrading, and that if I watch it, then I'm more likely to rape someone. Go to encyclopediadramatica and look up "bitingbeaver" I'd post a link myself, but theres some pornographic stuff there. These are the kind of people I'm talking about, and the sad thing is that people liker her are not uncommon.

Porn is degrading to women. I'm not a femi-nazi. Don't just come into a debate half way through and rubbish one side of it without any thought.

Colgate Total
08-21-2008, 04:53 PM
Porn degrades men. We as men aren't as well known in porn, or as well treated, hell we aren't even paid the same. It's a damned shame.

Jakeylee111
08-21-2008, 04:53 PM
Hmm, does amateur porn degrade women?

SG Man Forever
08-21-2008, 04:56 PM
Rubbish, read some history. You think that suffragettes were the first feminists or something?



Porn is degrading to women. I'm not a femi-nazi. Don't just come into a debate half way through and rubbish one side of it without any thought.
I don't plan on it. I frankly don't care enough to argue the point. The idea that porn is degrading has to work both ways first off. You have to say it's degrading towards both sexes.

At any rate, it's an opinion, one we clearly dissagree on, and I've always thought arguing things that cannot be proved is idiotic, so if you'll excuse me, I'm going to jack off to pictures of Nastia Liukin.

darkstar2466
08-21-2008, 05:00 PM
I realized my last two posts were just arbitrary tangents about my opinion on the general situation, rather than my view towards the thread topic.

Ahem... about t3h pr0nz...

More than degrading the man or the woman, I think it's a complete desensitization of the act of sex. With every view, I think it takes away from the viewer what it means to have sex.

And I am not talking about sex at the level of an animal, but as a homo sapiens sapiens, with the intellect of something much more than our predecessors. It takes away from the intellectual aspect and the appreciation. Remember that word? Appreciation? It's something we have adapted to channel more than other animals, to take an abstract idea and assign great value to it.

Yes, porn takes away from the appreciation of the act of sex.

Fin.

I'll go eat lunch, finish some office-work, go skate, run, and come back to watch the fireworks in this hurr thread. Have fun.

Martyr's Prayer
08-21-2008, 05:06 PM
I realized my last two posts were just arbitrary tangents about my opinion on the general situation, rather than my view towards the thread topic.

Ahem... about t3h pr0nz...

More than degrading the man or the woman, I think it's a complete desensitization of the act of sex. With every view, I think it takes away from the viewer what it means to have sex.

And I am not talking about sex at the level of an animal, but as a homo sapiens sapiens, with the intellect of something much more than our predecessors. It takes away from the intellectual aspect and the appreciation. Remember that word? Appreciation? It's something we have adapted to channel more than other animals, to take an abstract idea and assign great value to it.

Yes, porn takes away from the appreciation of the act of sex.

Fin.

I'll go eat lunch, finish some office-work, go skate, run, and come back to watch the fireworks in this hurr thread. Have fun.

I agree, I think that this issue is a branch of a bigger problem.

Wigert
08-21-2008, 05:09 PM
Ok, humans want to have sex as a basic instinct. All this is is a woman and a man (or more or less participants for that matter) having sex, being filmed and then payed for it. I seriously don't see what the problem is.

Badreligionrock
08-21-2008, 05:13 PM
I realized my last two posts were just arbitrary tangents about my opinion on the general situation, rather than my view towards the thread topic.

Ahem... about t3h pr0nz...

More than degrading the man or the woman, I think it's a complete desensitization of the act of sex. With every view, I think it takes away from the viewer what it means to have sex.

And I am not talking about sex at the level of an animal, but as a homo sapiens sapiens, with the intellect of something much more than our predecessors. It takes away from the intellectual aspect and the appreciation. Remember that word? Appreciation? It's something we have adapted to channel more than other animals, to take an abstract idea and assign great value to it.

Yes, porn takes away from the appreciation of the act of sex.

Fin.

I'll go eat lunch, finish some office-work, go skate, run, and come back to watch the fireworks in this hurr thread. Have fun.

Sex can be anything you want it to be. It can be a declaration of love, it can be something you do for kicks, or it can be something you watch to get off. Those who appreciate sex don't have to watch porn, and those that do watch it may not necessarily appreciate sex when they get it (if ever...har har). The fact is that there is a market for porn, and if people want to make a living out of having sex and being filmed whilst in the act, that's their decision.

Sorry if I've totally missed the point, I just came into the thread and saw your post.

Broken_Drum
08-21-2008, 05:13 PM
Ok, humans want to have sex as a basic instinct. All this is is a woman and a man (or more or less participants for that matter) having sex, being filmed and then payed for it. I seriously don't see what the problem is.
I believe the problem lies with the way people could treat women after viewing it.

Martyr's Prayer
08-21-2008, 05:14 PM
Ok, humans want to have sex as a basic instinct. All this is is a woman and a man (or more or less participants for that matter) having sex, being filmed and then payed for it. I seriously don't see what the problem is.

You're oversimplifying it. It's a form of entertainment, that makes money. Therefore it's not about anything BUT the money. Even most amateur porn. Sex should be something that a couple discovers together and something that's very special between them. Porn OBVIOUSLY takes away from that. Therefore it's degrading to all involved.

Wigert
08-21-2008, 05:15 PM
I believe the problem lies with the way people could treat women after viewing it.
I understand that, but as everything else in this world, the responsibility lies with the person who has done something wrong, not the person who is supposed to be the triggering factor. Such as Marilyn Manson getting blaimed for Columbine and such. One thing can be misunderstood and handled the wrong way as can anything else be.

Ashish23
08-21-2008, 05:17 PM
pwnt

Badreligionrock
08-21-2008, 05:17 PM
You're oversimplifying it. It's a form of entertainment, that makes money. Therefore it's not about anything BUT the money. Even most amateur porn. Sex should be something that a couple discovers together and something that's very special between them. Porn OBVIOUSLY takes away from that. Therefore it's degrading to all involved.

You can't simply state what sex should be and what it shouldn't be, based on your values. Everyone's different.

PatchworkMan
08-21-2008, 05:19 PM
I understand that, but as everything else in this world, the responsibility lies with the person who has done something wrong, not the person who is supposed to be the triggering factor. Such as Marilyn Manson getting blaimed for Columbine and such. One thing can be misunderstood and handled the wrong way as can anything else be.

I agree to the point, but I believe that the industry specificially targets young people in attempt to get men hooked on an unrealistic standard before them ever get to real women, so that they have to keep coming back to porn. The adult film industry makes more money off men who are willing to degrade women, so they do their best to create such men.

master
08-21-2008, 05:20 PM
Ok, humans want to have sex as a basic instinct. All this is is a woman and a man (or more or less participants for that matter) having sex, being filmed and then payed for it. I seriously don't see what the problem is.


A lot of porn, and I mean A LOT, is more than just sex. It includes anal, deepthroating 'til they gag, calling them a bitch, double penetration, etc...It's objectifying - making the girl look like they're nothing more than a sex object.

Some porn is definitely degrading, others make women almost look like they're godesses.

Martyr's Prayer
08-21-2008, 05:21 PM
You can't simply state what sex should be and what it shouldn't be, based on your values. Everyone's different.

In what other way could sex possibly mean more, or be more constructive? Casual sex is fun, ok. But what about when you're further down the road in life and want some solidarity, but the girl that you're crazy about and you know is perfect for you doesn't live up to your sexual expectations? Life is about much more than just having fun and feeling good, and like it or not, every little thing you do today affects tomorrow.

tehwoopah
08-21-2008, 05:22 PM
porn is bad

master
08-21-2008, 05:23 PM
porn is awesome

thundrstruk891
08-21-2008, 05:26 PM
i dont think porn degrades women specifically, because every girl in porn made the decision to be there. maybe it was a direct choice, maybe not, but they did make the choice to be in the movie.


but i do think it degrades our opinion of women. when you watch enough porn, you start to look at women differently.

so yes it does, and no it doesnt.

untalented
08-21-2008, 05:37 PM
personally, I think it degrades the men watching it more. It makes them out to just be the animal within and takes over their mind and makes them into disgusting perverts when they wouldn't be. Many men will choose to watch it but there are many that really don't want to, but do. It's more the women who have a choice whether to act or not but, although men have a choice, their biological urges make it heavily one-sided. The situation of pornography is women taking advantage of men and exploiting their weakness and making a lot of money from it. They don't even need to do it. With looks that good, they should technically have many men falling for them and should be able to easily pick out a rich, nice guy from the many men chasing them
I would really like to know why a "pornstar" does what she does. What are the motives of someone like that?

walkinbazooka
08-21-2008, 05:40 PM
I agree to the point, but I believe that the industry specificially targets young people in attempt to get men hooked on an unrealistic standard before them ever get to real women, so that they have to keep coming back to porn. The adult film industry makes more money off men who are willing to degrade women, so they do their best to create such men.
Fapping to porn is nowhere near as good as sexual activity with another person.

Besides who actually pays for porn?

Wigert
08-21-2008, 05:42 PM
Fapping to porn is nowhere near as good as sexual activity with another person.

Besides who actually pays for porn?
Fools who not yet have the capacity of learning how to use torrents and RS.

But we are dependent on those fools because if the cash stop flowing, so does the fap material.

Archaon
08-21-2008, 05:45 PM
Fapping to porn is nowhere near as good as sexual activity with another person.

Besides who actually pays for porn?
The same people who pay for sex. Those that can't get either without dishing out money. :p:

Don't Panic Ok?
08-21-2008, 06:09 PM
Hell whatever they want, it's the fool who basis his or her entire opinion of a gender on pornography.

insomniac_style
08-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Tell that to Jenna Jameson, who is now a very rich woman, merely because she put her assets and talents to good use.

Besides, most of the people I know who watch a lot of porn are nerds. And they tend to treat women better than the average population that I've met.

:golfclap:

meh!
08-21-2008, 06:17 PM
She was also raped. Twice. By 5 men in total. Doesn't really support the point of anyone in favour of the pornographic industry and it's very common for porn actors do have gone through similar things. Rape, addiction, abuse etc etc.

tyronelab
08-21-2008, 06:19 PM
Maybe it's just coincidence but I've been able to connect with women more since I stopped watching porn. It could just be that I've more free time though...

yoshixxx7
08-21-2008, 06:25 PM
So if a couple films themselves having sex, is it degrading to the woman? It's all about context. Porn can be degrading to women, but not necessarily.

Also, how could it be degrading for the woman but not the male pornstar? They're both going through the same thing, whoring out their bodies. Yeah, I get that males are predominantly the ones who consume porn but that shouldn't matter.

And women have used sex as a tool since forever, so feminists should not pretend like it is a one-way street.

Tubyboulin
08-21-2008, 06:32 PM
Im sure they are all very nice people. :) I don't think it degrades them at all. I still respect women.

Fuzzbox91
08-21-2008, 07:36 PM
That is complete and total bollocks.

The mentality the exists in porn is not something that applies to everything- pornography is just something that exists to satisfy a physical basic need, which is why the people who are in it are attractive.

People say lesbian porn degrades women, noone ever says gay porn degrades men. And it's exactly the same.

And how the hell is it damaging womens' rights?
couldnt agree with you more here. If a guy watches porn and applies it to life than its his fault for being a stereotypical douche.

Fuzzbox91
08-21-2008, 07:38 PM
tell me how porn degrades women any more than it degrades men.

Fuzzbox91
08-21-2008, 07:41 PM
allthough i might add the whole thing about women who have sex a lot are sluts and men who do are winners is complete bull**** and THAT is degrading to women, i would consider people like Tommy Lee and Gene Simmons to be sluts.


also i dont watch much video porn, the whole idea of seeing another dude **** a girl that i would like to **** just makes me angry, not horny. i just look at pictures of really hot women naked, i cant see anythign wrong with it, i dont expect all women to look like that because i know they dont,

portnoy rhoads
08-24-2008, 12:45 AM
no. if they don't want to be seen as sluts, they shouldn't be in porn

mcr-fan-405
08-24-2008, 12:46 AM
Probably.

But they choose to do it don't they?

videotaped rape degrades women not porn

BaconFrenzy117
08-24-2008, 12:51 AM
No, its not right (moral conflicts anybody?), but women choose to do it so...

Meths
08-24-2008, 03:36 PM
Also, how could it be degrading for the woman but not the male pornstar? They're both going through the same thing, whoring out their bodies. Yeah, I get that males are predominantly the ones who consume porn but that shouldn't matter.

In the behaviour and acts they show. Most porn is done in a style that is degrading to women. It's not degrading because they take part but because of how they take part.

And women have used sex as a tool since forever, so feminists should not pretend like it is a one-way street.

Right, so women have to use sex to get what they want and you think that's not sexist?

In what other way could sex possibly mean more, or be more constructive? Casual sex is fun, ok. But what about when you're further down the road in life and want some solidarity, but the girl that you're crazy about and you know is perfect for you doesn't live up to your sexual expectations? Life is about much more than just having fun and feeling good, and like it or not, every little thing you do today affects tomorrow.

So you're saying people shouldn't have sex with lots of people in case their eventual chosen partner (assuming there is one) doesn't let them down in bed by being worse than previous sexual partners? :haha

Våd Hamster
08-24-2008, 03:38 PM
In the behaviour and acts they show. Most porn is done in a style that is degrading to women. It's not degrading because they take part but because of how they take part.



Lesbian porn?

KFKing
08-24-2008, 03:42 PM
How does porn not degrade men more than women? From all the Pornography I've watched it portrays men as sex hungry beasts who would **** any hot girl they see and cheat on their wives/ girlfriends for their kids babysitters.

The only reason sex is considered bad is because our society says sex is bad. If there was pornography in Ancient Greece or Rome (there were pictures but not videos) nothing would've been said of it. An inanimate object cannot degrade women, people who watch it do. That's like blaming a gun for murdering someone.

11thHour
08-24-2008, 03:47 PM
Saying porn is bad is the equivalent of saying all men should CUT OFF THEIR PENISES

Meths
08-24-2008, 03:50 PM
Lesbian porn?

I said most porn. Lesbian porn is one of the ones that doesn't really.

KFKing How does porn not degrade men more than women? From all the Pornography I've watched it portrays men as sex hungry beasts who would **** any hot girl they see and cheat on their wives/ girlfriends for their kids babysitters.

The only reason sex is considered bad is because our society says sex is bad. If there was pornography in Ancient Greece or Rome (there were pictures but not videos) nothing would've been said of it. An inanimate object cannot degrade women, people who watch it do. That's like blaming a gun for murdering someone.

Porn isn't an inanimate object.

sixwingmortal
08-24-2008, 04:02 PM
Women in porn choose to get ****ed and cummed all over by men.
Men in porn choose to **** and cum all over women.

It doesn't degrade the entire population of women or men. It more likely degrades the individual who chooses to do porn.

KFKing
08-24-2008, 04:05 PM
I said most porn. Lesbian porn is one of the ones that doesn't really.



Porn isn't an inanimate object.

in·an·i·mate Audio Help /ɪnˈænəmɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-an-uh-mit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. not animate; lifeless.
2. spiritless; sluggish; dull.
3. Linguistics. belonging to a syntactic category or having a semantic feature that is characteristic of words denoting objects, concepts, and beings regarded as lacking perception and volition (opposed to animate).

Is there an animal called Porn I do not know about? If so I really missed the point of this thread.

Perhaps you were referring to the fact that the term Porn which is often used to describe all areas of pornography is not an inanimate object but a category. I would've assumed that it would be obvious that when I said Porn I meant pornographic videos, especially since I ruled out pornographic pictures when comparing our culture to Ancient Greece's.

Meths
08-24-2008, 04:12 PM
in·an·i·mate Audio Help /ɪnˈænəmɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-an-uh-mit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. not animate; lifeless.
2. spiritless; sluggish; dull.
3. Linguistics. belonging to a syntactic category or having a semantic feature that is characteristic of words denoting objects, concepts, and beings regarded as lacking perception and volition (opposed to animate).

Is there an animal called Porn I do not know about? If so I really missed the point of this thread.

Perhaps you were referring to the fact that the term Porn which is often used to describe all areas of pornography is not an inanimate object but a category. I would've assumed that it would be obvious that when I said Porn I meant pornographic videos, especially since I ruled out pornographic pictures when comparing our culture to Ancient Greece's.

Porn isn't an object. Stop trying to be clever. It isn't working.

KFKing
08-24-2008, 04:18 PM
Porn isn't an object. Stop trying to be clever. It isn't working.

Alright, I believe you, this video tape I have here is not an object, sorry!

JordantheAxe
08-24-2008, 04:24 PM
Alright, I believe you, this video tape I have here is not an object, sorry!
People like you are really annoying on forums.

anyways I don't think it's that degrading. Porn has been around for years and has hardly ever been much of a problem.

Meths
08-24-2008, 04:25 PM
Alright, I believe you, this video tape I have here is not an object, sorry!

It is the content of the tape that is pornography. The video itself is an object but the tape is not porn. The tape CONTAINS porn.

gitaarproff
08-24-2008, 04:33 PM
only if they were forced

/thread :D

KFKing
08-24-2008, 04:37 PM
The tape is Pornography. If a 15 year old was caught with that tape by a police officer he would be charged with possession of Pornography. The film on the inner part of the tape is part of the tape, therefore the video is a pornographic video.

I do see what you are saying, but even so, the film part of the tape doesn't have a life and is therefore inanimate. In order for porn not to be an inanimate object there would have to be some tiny living being inside of the tape named Porn, in which case I would agree with you.

edit: People like you are really annoying on forums.

anyways I don't think it's that degrading. Porn has been around for years and has hardly ever been much of a problem.

I'm sorry to be an annoyance, could you please tell me why? Sarcasm is just part of my personality.

Double edit: We're way off topic, wanna start a new thread? I doubt it would accomplish anything.

Eddie's'Waitor
08-24-2008, 04:37 PM
Yeah but what would we wank to when we're not having sex huh ?

soccermom
08-24-2008, 04:40 PM
.No.Not Gay Porn.

Meths
08-24-2008, 05:00 PM
The tape is Pornography. If a 15 year old was caught with that tape by a police officer he would be charged with possession of Pornography. The film on the inner part of the tape is part of the tape, therefore the video is a pornographic video.

I do see what you are saying, but even so, the film part of the tape doesn't have a life and is therefore inanimate. In order for porn not to be an inanimate object there would have to be some tiny living being inside of the tape named Porn, in which case I would agree with you.

It's like saying theatre is inanimate. It's a concept; it can't be inaminate because that's not a word you use to describe concepts. A videotape can't be degrading; the content can.

The fact is, most porn is degrading. The women do it for money and that's it. They don't enjoy it, it's just a way to make quick money pretty easily at the price of being degraded.

And there's different levels of degradation for different types of porn. Things like Suicide Girls and softcore pictures is the small part of porn where the girl isn't being forced to do anything she doesn't want to do. But there is a LARGE part of it where they get humiliated and do things they would never have wanted to do but decided that the money is worth it.

They may agree to it and get paid well, but don't fool yourself into thinking they enjoy what they do.

Of course all of this is negated with Sasha Grey.

+1

See, you can be smart if you just put the effort in. :p:

Eddie's'Waitor
08-24-2008, 05:00 PM
To be fair I think it's alright if they do it with their boyfriend, but finding random guys (mostly fat ugly middle aged blokes I guess) to have sex with isn't great. most of the girls aren't that hot anyway

Jhachey22
08-24-2008, 05:04 PM
pron is not degrading to women, "bands" and singers like Girlicious adn the Pussycat Dolls are.

KFKing
08-24-2008, 05:18 PM
It's like saying theatre is inanimate. It's a concept; it can't be inaminate because that's not a word you use to describe concepts. A videotape can't be degrading; the content can.


Theatre is a noun just as porn is. But when describing Pornographic videos pornography becomes an adjective. I chose to shorten it to "Porn." (a lot of time that saved me! ) However, even the content of the video, which makes the video considered porn, does not have a consciousness or perception and is therefore inanimate.

Really the contents of the video is not even porn, it is film, just as you labeled the film it showed porn, I labeled the video that presented it porn.

serjiscoolz
08-24-2008, 05:20 PM
Nope.
Only those with insanely high self-esteem.

CowboyUp
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
Women who are in porn choose to let themselves be degraded for money. Porn itself isn't degrading. Some porn is even glorifying the beauty of women.

master
08-24-2008, 05:21 PM
The fact is, most porn is degrading. The women do it for money and that's it. They don't enjoy it, it's just a way to make quick money pretty easily at the price of being degraded.

And there's different levels of degradation for different types of porn. Things like Suicide Girls and softcore pictures is the small part of porn where the girl isn't being forced to do anything she doesn't want to do. But there is a LARGE part of it where they get humiliated and do things they would never have wanted to do but decided that the money is worth it.

They may agree to it and get paid well, but don't fool yourself into thinking they enjoy what they do.

Of course all of this is negated with Sasha Grey.


Sasha Grey is soooo dirty. But she's actually pretty smart and she does say that she enjoys what she does.

Youtube her interview with Tyra Banks. It's insightful. Dr. Drew was actually on there as well and he said that if she continues what she does she will be in diapers by the time she's 30! :puke:

To bring up another point, what does everybody think of amateur porn like the girls gone wild series? I think that's more degrading than other porn because the girls aren't porn stars and don't even get paid for it. All they get is a shirt or a hat. They make Real girls look like sluts and sex objects.

KFKing
08-24-2008, 05:27 PM
Sasha Grey is soooo dirty. But she's actually pretty smart and she does say that she enjoys what she does.

Youtube her interview with Tyra Banks. It's insightful. Dr. Drew was actually on there as well and he said that if she continues what she does she will be in diapers by the time she's 30! :puke:

To bring up another point, what does everybody think of amateur porn like the girls gone wild series? I think that's more degrading than other porn because the girls aren't porn stars and don't even get paid for it. All they get is a shirt or a hat. They make Real girls look like sluts and sex objects.

I think it doesn't even get me off. :P

I don't think they make other girls look like sluts or sex objects, my reason being is that out of the thousands of places with girls I've been to in my life I've never seen girls screaming and throwing off their clothes. I have thousands of real life experiences versus a few videos. Then again maybe I'm just not as sexy as the guys on girls gone wild. :sad:

Nielsyboy
08-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Au contraire

Porn upgrades women

that and a good sandwich

Martyr's Prayer
08-24-2008, 05:43 PM
So you're saying people shouldn't have sex with lots of people in case their eventual chosen partner (assuming there is one) doesn't let them down in bed by being worse than previous sexual partners? :haha

I'm sorry if that's how you interpreted it. I'm saying that the best way to have sex is when it means something and is something that two people hold in common, in that it's something they couldn't have with anyone else but each other.

Meths
08-24-2008, 06:06 PM
Theatre is a noun just as porn is. But when describing Pornographic videos pornography becomes an adjective. I chose to shorten it to "Porn." (a lot of time that saved me! ) However, even the content of the video, which makes the video considered porn, does not have a consciousness or perception and is therefore inanimate.

Really the contents of the video is not even porn, it is film, just as you labeled the film it showed porn, I labeled the video that presented it porn.

...Just shut up. Clearly this is beyond you.

To bring up another point, what does everybody think of amateur porn like the girls gone wild series? I think that's more degrading than other porn because the girls aren't porn stars and don't even get paid for it. All they get is a shirt or a hat. They make Real girls look like sluts and sex objects.

I don't know if it's more degrading but it is in a different way.

I'm sorry if that's how you interpreted it. I'm saying that the best way to have sex is when it means something and is something that two people hold in common, in that it's something they couldn't have with anyone else but each other.

It probably is the best way, it doesn't mean the other ways aren't fun or worthwhile.

Jack Off Jill
08-24-2008, 07:38 PM
Truth.


And that is why most of the UG population make me so angry.


Seriously, the damage it is doing to women's rights is sickening. Yeah, girls don't have talent, intelligence, real lives, they just exist to look pretty and fuck.

GAHHH =(





Why are you bringing physical strength into the arguement? this is not about physical strength, it is about the fact men have warped views of women because of the eternally whorish women they watch on their computer screens. Learn to read, k?
I dunno, it seems to me that if you want to go on about women's rights, you have to accept their right to have violent sex on film if they want to.

I think a lot of people are really hypocritical about this whole thing. If a woman is loose and just has sex with a lot of men, no one calls her degraded, they say she gets around. However, if its done in front of a camera, all of a sudden she's degraded. Thats stupid. The reason for that is because anyone on camera, or on a cd, etc, etc is degraded because they're viewed as an object. All celebrities are a product, and you all contribute to it when you buy CDs.

meh!
08-24-2008, 07:42 PM
I dunno, it seems to me that if you want to go on about women's rights, you have to accept their right to have violent sex on film if they want to.

I don't think anyone was making any point about legislation to with porn.

Jack Off Jill
08-24-2008, 07:52 PM
I don't think anyone was making any point about legislation to with porn.
I didn't mean legislation. I mean, if you're going to go on about how we males need to quit trying to make women lead a certain lifestyle, IE anything for our sexual entertainment, you really shouldn't be saying how women should live their lifestyles either, IE: Not doing porn. The women can make their own choices.
...

A couple of thousand women that do porn do not = the whole female sex. If you can't see that then you're an idiot and deserve the abuse you recieve.

Also, I'd question the mentality of women in porn. Just like women in prostitution. How many are supporting addictions? How many come from disturbed childhoods? meh, this is just conjecture but i'd probably put money on it.
As for this, I have a problem with that last bit only because there are tons of drug addicts working other demeaning jobs that I don't ever hear anyone complain about. I've never heard anyone complain about how a guy has to work at wal-mart because he never went to college because he was too busy spending his time in high school using drugs. And then he uses the money from work to buy more drugs, all the while having to deal with pricks who talk down to him just because he works at wal-mart. I know two heroin addicts who work at Pizza Hut. But, that doesn't mean I shouldn't order from there just because I know they're going to use my tip money on drugs.

groll01
08-24-2008, 09:30 PM
what about the men?

Retro Rocker
08-24-2008, 09:39 PM
Just finished watching some quality porn.
Blonde Nymphos > Jesus.

meh!
08-24-2008, 10:21 PM
I didn't mean legislation. I mean, if you're going to go on about how we males need to quit trying to make women lead a certain lifestyle, IE anything for our sexual entertainment, you really shouldn't be saying how women should live their lifestyles either, IE: Not doing porn. The women can make their own choices.

Right. We can say 'men should stop trying to make women lead a certain life style' because its' wrong for us to do so. I also say it's wrong for women to go into porn because it's a horrible life style with negative side effects for women everywhere, as far as i'm concerened. But, do women go in to porn because they think 'porn's awesome'? No, if so then rarely. Generally they seem to go into porn because they're vulnerable, poor, disturbed, addicted or something else or a combination.

What you're saying is like 'Yes, heroin is bad thing but if we tell you that then we're assuming that you can't make your own choices and we shouldn't mention it'. Just because in the end it's their choice wether or not they do it, doesn't make heroin ok.

As for this, I have a problem with that last bit only because there are tons of drug addicts working other demeaning jobs that I don't ever hear anyone complain about. I've never heard anyone complain about how a guy has to work at wal-mart because he never went to college because he was too busy spending his time in high school using drugs. And then he uses the money from work to buy more drugs, all the while having to deal with pricks who talk down to him just because he works at wal-mart. I know two heroin addicts who work at Pizza Hut. But, that doesn't mean I shouldn't order from there just because I know they're going to use my tip money on drugs.

I wouldn't compare working for wal-mart to being in porn, I'd say one is far more demeaning than the other but that's a personal opinion I suppose. Though if you think they're similar, I honestly think your personal opinion is weird :p: . And also your analogy is weird.

What makes people do things is far too complex to pin down. Suffice to say I think it's silly to try and split it up into 'you chose this' and 'you didn't'. When Jenna jameson was raped, in total, twice by five men and yet for some reason moved in with one of the people who raped her did she choose to enter the world of porn? Or did she slip into it almost as inevitably?

_______________________________

Ask anyone what prostitution is, they'll say 'having sex for money'. I honestly don't see how porn is anything other than socially acceptable prostiution. Of course, people like to get around it by saying 'you're not paying for sex with her, you're paying to watch her have sex'. But in the end the point is that she's having sex for money.

caskettheclown
08-24-2008, 10:26 PM
depends on how you look at it
some see it as an art form and some see it as degrading.

BladeSlinger
08-24-2008, 10:27 PM
I watch it but if I could choose to do away with it forever I would. The women choose to do it but it only adds to the objectification of women.

cakemonster91
08-24-2008, 10:31 PM
No, not really. The women who do it actually want to. Although men's mags are usually full of ****e, and talk about women being inferior to men. Except where does all their money come from? Men don't pay for magazines that feature a bunch of fat blokes moaning about women, they buy them to look at pictures of women. I'm just amazed at how many people still believe it's the fifties.

SGK531
08-24-2008, 10:35 PM
You know that one person in your group of friends that acts like a total ass? The one who does stupid stuff in public or says absolutely moronic things? And how it bothers you that people associate you with him/her, maybe even project that person's characteristics onto you?

That's what a lot of porn stars are like. The stupid, annoying friend in the big group known as women. The one that nobody wants to be associated with, but can be anyways.

That being said, I don't think it's fair to make blanket statements like that regarding porn. Some of it's obviously degrading, and some of it is pretty harmless for everyone involved.

Daryl_Summers
08-24-2008, 10:37 PM
Women will do anything for money.

/Thread and shut the **** up.

Furnase
08-24-2008, 10:39 PM
Everyone knows women LIKE being degraded... :rolleyes:
;)

Axis Of Evil
08-24-2008, 11:02 PM
Porn does not degrade women. Women who decide to take part in porn degrade women.

If you'll fuck someone and let it be circulated, you ain't got no right to whine that you're being degraded by anyone but yourself. So stop suckin' guys off and letting it get circulated! If you're gonna do that, do it in the privacy of your home, or someone's home, and keep it there. Otherwise, don't whine.

SGK531
08-24-2008, 11:19 PM
Porn does not degrade women. Women who decide to take part in porn degrade women.

If you'll fuck someone and let it be circulated, you ain't got no right to whine that you're being degraded by anyone but yourself. So stop suckin' guys off and letting it get circulated! If you're gonna do that, do it in the privacy of your home, or someone's home, and keep it there. Otherwise, don't whine.
What you're not getting is the fact that probably .001% of the female population chooses to do porn, but it affects people outside of the industry in terms of stereotypes, unrealistic expectations, ect.

I haven't read every post of this thread so sorry if this has been mentioned, but I think some porn can be "degrading" or create unfair expectations for men, too. Not all men look like GQ models and will whip it out with a random girl, just like not all girls will suck a **** for a camera if you tell her to.

KFKing
08-25-2008, 12:06 AM
...Just shut up. Clearly this is beyond you.



I don't know if it's more degrading but it is in a different way.



It probably is the best way, it doesn't mean the other ways aren't fun or worthwhile.

Wow, someone can't get his way so he tells the other person to shut up. I feel ashamed for arguing with you for so long.

JDizzle787
08-25-2008, 12:36 AM
Well, yes and no. It is very degrading to the female image, however, it's also a novelty, that is still a good thing to society. Unfortunately, what's behind it isn't so. It's still very sexist, and while I can't stand feminists because they're ****ing annoying, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but yeah it is degrading regarding our current situation.

Jack Off Jill
08-25-2008, 07:48 AM
Right. We can say 'men should stop trying to make women lead a certain life style' because its' wrong for us to do so. I also say it's wrong for women to go into porn because it's a horrible life style with negative side effects for women everywhere, as far as i'm concerened. But, do women go in to porn because they think 'porn's awesome'? No, if so then rarely. Generally they seem to go into porn because they're vulnerable, poor, disturbed, addicted or something else or a combination.

What you're saying is like 'Yes, heroin is bad thing but if we tell you that then we're assuming that you can't make your own choices and we shouldn't mention it'. Just because in the end it's their choice wether or not they do it, doesn't make heroin ok.



I wouldn't compare working for wal-mart to being in porn, I'd say one is far more demeaning than the other but that's a personal opinion I suppose. Though if you think they're similar, I honestly think your personal opinion is weird :p: . And also your analogy is weird.

What makes people do things is far too complex to pin down. Suffice to say I think it's silly to try and split it up into 'you chose this' and 'you didn't'. When Jenna jameson was raped, in total, twice by five men and yet for some reason moved in with one of the people who raped her did she choose to enter the world of porn? Or did she slip into it almost as inevitably?

_______________________________

Ask anyone what prostitution is, they'll say 'having sex for money'. I honestly don't see how porn is anything other than socially acceptable prostiution. Of course, people like to get around it by saying 'you're not paying for sex with her, you're paying to watch her have sex'. But in the end the point is that she's having sex for money.
I dunno, Meh. Maybe you've never worked there. :) Personally, I'd rather work in porn than at Wal-Mart.

IDuckLlamas
08-25-2008, 08:13 AM
Okay, I've watched some f*cked up porn in my 15years on this earth, and I mean..really f*cked up, and I still don't see why people think it degrades women. They get payed sh*t loads, they have to do like no work at all apart from some half a$sed cr*py acting. They only do what they are comfortable with. Sex is part of life and if women are comfortable doing it/other sexual things in front of a camera then why shouldn't they be paid for it. So no I don't think it's degrading. They're just using they're assets to get money nothing wrong with that.

(Also this is an opinion of a female. Not a horny teenage guy.)

meh!
08-25-2008, 08:19 AM
I dunno, Meh. Maybe you've never worked there. :) Personally, I'd rather work in porn than at Wal-Mart.


:haha No I haven't, we don't technically get wal-mart here.

Okay, I've watched some f*cked up porn in my 15years on this earth, and I mean..really f*cked up, and I still don't see why people think it degrades women. They get payed sh*t loads, they have to do like no work at all apart from some half a$sed cr*py acting. They only do what they are comfortable with. Sex is part of life and if women are comfortable doing it/other sexual things in front of a camera then why shouldn't they be paid for it. So no I don't think it's degrading. They're just using they're assets to get money nothing wrong with that.

(Also this is an opinion of a female. Not a horny teenage guy.)

Being a women doesn't make your opinion more valid :p:

1. It and every other industry to do with women shapes perceptions of women all over the world. It's ridiculous when people think that the images that bombard us everyday don't affect us. Men's perception of women is skewed by by porn. It adds to the objectifcation of women.

2. The industry is not as friendly as you like. Most porn stars are poor and a lot of the have the numerous problems i've been banging on about 'addicted, disturbed' etc. When you've got no money to pay your rent, what you're 'comfortable with' suddenly expands. Also, they get paid **** loads? Yeah, maybe if you're one of the incredibly famous porn stars... what about everyone else? Not rich.

Personal opinion:

I don't see how people don't think it's degrading to do a lot of the things that happen in porn. Having three men come on your face while you sit and pretend you enjoy it? Honestly it sounds degrading to me.

IDuckLlamas
08-25-2008, 08:44 AM
:haha No I haven't, we don't technically get wal-mart here.



Being a women doesn't make your opinion more valid :p:

1. It and every other industry to do with women shapes perceptions of women all over the world. It's ridiculous when people think that the images that bombard us everyday don't affect us. Men's perception of women is skewed by by porn. It adds to the objectification of women.

2. The industry is not as friendly as you like. Most porn stars are poor and a lot of the have the numerous problems i've been banging on about 'addicted, disturbed' etc. When you've got no money to pay your rent, what you're 'comfortable with' suddenly expands. Also, they get paid **** loads? Yeah, maybe if you're one of the incredibly famous porn stars... what about everyone else? Not rich.

Personal opinion:

I don't see how people don't think it's degrading to do a lot of the things that happen in porn. Having three men come on your face while you sit and pretend you enjoy it? Honestly it sounds degrading to me.

1. Surely men can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

2. Firstly, it's there choice they CHOSE to be in the industry if they don't like it that much they won't do it again as simple as that. The no money problem I'm sure they're are a lot of other ways to pay your rent other than porn. I don't know were your from but were I come from It's alot easier to make money in Tescos for £7 an hour than it is to make porn. Also yeah I understand some don't get paid **** loads but they get paid enough for what really is just amateur acting.

meh!
08-25-2008, 09:36 AM
1. Surely men can tell the difference between fantasy and reality.


No. That's the whole point. It's not about men knowing the difference between anything, if you bombard people with ideas of what's right and what's pretty then their idea changes. It works on women too. Women aren't putting themselves through hell to look thin just for the craic. People think that's how they need to be because that's how the entire fashion industry and, to a lesser extent, men make them feel like they need to be.


2. Firstly, it's there choice they CHOSE to be in the industry if they don't like it that much they won't do it again as simple as that. The no money problem I'm sure they're are a lot of other ways to pay your rent other than porn. I don't know were your from but were I come from It's alot easier to make money in Tescos for £7 an hour than it is to make porn. Also yeah I understand some don't get paid **** loads but they get paid enough for what really is just amateur acting.

2 (a) I'm glad the idea of choice is so firmly worked out in your mind. Again, your choices change depending on your circumstance. Statistics are very hard to find because obviously people in porn and the women themselves are reticent when it comes to these kind of questions but individual pornstars (three that I can name and quote) will tell you that at least half the women they meet in porn were abused as children.

2 (b) Now, what are the requirements for working at tesco? Not much. Pulse, look smartish, criminal record (including drug offences), being on-time etc. These are all much harder for druggies.

I'm not saying there aren't healthy women who go into porn,but the porn industry wouldn't be what it is today if it didn't work with people it shouldn't be allowed to.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 09:58 AM
For maybe the first time ever, I totally agree with Meh.

Jack Off Jill
08-25-2008, 10:00 AM
:haha No I haven't, we don't technically get wal-mart here.
Well, see.. I've worked there. I've been around the people that work there, it seems like the majority of them are unhappy being there. They get to deal with dick head people all day long, and they have to do it with a smile on their face. They even have to take being insulted. And a lot of them are doing it because they have a mortgage to pay. I really don't see much of a difference between having a mortgage and being a drug addict. People who are addicted are addicted because they chose to use a drug at some point in time. When I worked there, I was outside for 8 hours a day pushing carts by myself, even if there was tons of snow, or if there was lightning outside. In the last few weeks I worked there, I was coughing up blood because of something else, and when I asked to go on my break, they wouldn't let me. So, when I went on my break anyway, one of my bosses threw away the jacket I had left near the entrance, and I had to climb into a dumpster and pull it out.

Currently I work in a gas station. I still have to be nice to people who are assholes, I've been called every name in the book, and even had a case of beer thrown at me. At some point a guy used our vacuums outside to suck the excrement out of his RV, and when I cleaned up the vacuum I poured the contents into a trash bag. The trash can had a broken beer bottle in it at the bottom, and there was a cut in the bag that I didn't notice until I was lifting the bag into the dumpster and the hole widened and I was covered in it. I was literally shit on by a customer. I also regularly clean up their messes in the bathrooms. Are you going to tell me my job is less 'degrading' than a porn stars? But, I don't feel degraded because generally, I like my job. Now, you could say I'm not working my job because I'm a drug addict. I'm not one. That said, I do have to pay for bills, food, cigarettes, etc, etc. I just don't see much of a difference. And about the cum on the face thing.. My current girlfriend really does like to have cum on her face, and gets mad because I refuse to do it.

ThatScrewedKid
08-25-2008, 10:05 AM
i disagree with whoever said "it only degrades the chick in the vid"

i think it degrades other women more. it gives people (particularly young people) the mentality that its alright to treat women as they are treated in porn.

you can argue against that till your blue in the face, but you will never silence the people telling each other to "put one through her!" just because they can.

If you can, why not? HELL YES

estranged23
08-25-2008, 10:06 AM
i think we should get some pics up of some porn, then we can discuss things from there.

meh!
08-25-2008, 10:10 AM
Well, see.. I've worked there. I've been around the people that work there, it seems like the majority of them are unhappy being there. They get to deal with dick head people all day long, and they have to do it with a smile on their face. They even have to take being insulted. And a lot of them are doing it because they have a mortgage to pay. I really don't see much of a difference between having a mortgage and being a drug addict. People who are addicted are addicted because they chose to use a drug at some point in time. When I worked there, I was outside for 8 hours a day pushing carts by myself, even if there was tons of snow, or if there was lightning outside. In the last few weeks I worked there, I was coughing up blood because of something else, and when I asked to go on my break, they wouldn't let me. So, when I went on my break anyway, one of my bosses threw away the jacket I had left near the entrance, and I had to climb into a dumpster and pull it out.


I'll stop you now because: yes, that's awful. That shouldn't be allowed to happen. There is no way in which behaviour like that is acceptable.


Currently I work in a gas station. I still have to be nice to people who are assholes, I've been called every name in the book, and even had a case of beer thrown at me. At some point a guy used our vacuums outside to suck the excrement out of his RV, and when I cleaned up the vacuum I poured the contents into a trash bag. The trash can had a broken beer bottle in it at the bottom, and there was a cut in the bag that I didn't notice until I was lifting the bag into the dumpster and the hole widened and I was covered in it. I was literally shit on by a customer. I also regularly clean up their messes in the bathrooms. Are you going to tell me my job is less 'degrading' than a porn stars? But, I don't feel degraded because generally, I like my job. Now, you could say I'm not working my job because I'm a drug addict. I'm not one. That said, I do have to pay for bills, food, cigarettes, etc, etc. I just don't see much of a difference. And about the cum on the face thing.. My current girlfriend really does like to have cum on her face, and gets mad because I refuse to do it.


Again, these bad things are a result of unacceptable behaviour. Legally people aren't allowed to insult you, they're certainly not allowed to throw beer at you.

To the last part, I don't know about the legality of it...and yes it's crap but... how many times has that happened? Once, and it was an accident...accident's happen. Again it's not really comparable to working in porn.

And good for your girlfriend, everyone's different i'm not trying to dictate what people's sexuality should and shouldn't be. My ex liked to be choked! But she likes you to do it for whatever reasons. Does she like 3 different guys a week to do it on film? I'll assume not.

For maybe the first time ever, I totally agree with Meh.


:haha Had to happen one day :p:

Slaytanic6606
08-25-2008, 10:15 AM
No. A woman isn't degraded unless she feels degraded.

Jack Off Jill
08-25-2008, 10:16 AM
I'll stop you now because: yes, that's awful. That shouldn't be allowed to happen. There is no way in which behaviour like that is acceptable.




Again, these bad things are a result of unacceptable behaviour. Legally people aren't allowed to insult you, they're certainly not allowed to throw beer at you.

To the last part, I don't know about the legality of it...and yes it's crap but... how many times has that happened? Once, and it was an accident...accident's happen. Again it's not really comparable to working in porn.

And good for your girlfriend, everyone's different i'm not trying to dictate what people's sexuality should and shouldn't be. My ex liked to be choked! But she likes you to do it for whatever reasons. Does she like 3 different guys a week to do it on film? I'll assume not.




:haha Had to happen one day :p:
True, it has happened once. But I still clean toilets on a regular basis. And garbage men still have to sort through dirty diapers. Plumbers, etc, etc. My point is, there are tons and tons of degrading jobs that people consider a necessity. People don't consider porn to be necessary, so its looked at differently. For all we know, maybe the guy who is looked down upon for flipping burgers is only doing so because when he was a kid he was abused by his parents, which led to drug dependancy, which led to dropping out of high school. I can see why you would consider porn degrading, and I think it could be too. I just don't think its any different than a lot of jobs that people work.

And for your second question, no. She wouldn't even let me take pictures of her naked. :mad:

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 10:25 AM
So do you think porn degrades women ?
Whats worse, performing and making money off porn or paying and watching porn?

I think I'd prefer to be the Performer.


Theres so many jobs in the world that are worse than being a pornstar. In fact if you can do it, I think It'd be pretty rewarding. All your doing is acting out peoples fantasies because they cant do it themselves.

Also, whose right is it that you can say ''your not allowed to have sex on camera and sell it for money''? If you dont like it, Ignore it.

meh!
08-25-2008, 10:29 AM
True, it has happened once. But I still clean toilets on a regular basis. And garbage men still have to sort through dirty diapers. Plumbers, etc, etc. My point is, there are tons and tons of degrading jobs that people consider a necessity. People don't consider porn to be necessary, so its looked at differently. For all we know, maybe the guy who is looked down upon for flipping burgers is only doing so because when he was a kid he was abused by his parents, which led to drug dependancy, which led to dropping out of high school. I can see why you would consider porn degrading, and I think it could be too. I just don't think its any different than a lot of jobs that people work.

Well you've hit on one of the key reasons, it's not necessary and I consider it to be bad and immoral (dodgy words in these modern, relativist times...). I also consider its effect to be negative.

But I still think there's something intrinsically different between selling your body and cleaning toilets. Yeah, cleaning toilets aint fun... but you wear gloves, etc. The jobs you listed i don't really think of them as degrading, i think that people's attitudes towards those jobs are degrading.

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 10:32 AM
Well you've hit on one of the key reasons, it's not necessary and I consider it to be bad and immoral (dodgy words in these modern, relativist times...). I also consider its effect to be negative.

But I still think there's something intrinsically different between selling your body and cleaning toilets. Yeah, cleaning toilets aint fun... but you wear gloves, etc. The jobs you listed i don't really think of them as degrading, i think that people's attitudes towards those jobs are degrading.
Both jobs are effectively the same. Both times you are selling your labour/body for a wage. It is only an individuals personal preference which dictates what they will be, pornstar or toilet cleaner?

meh!
08-25-2008, 10:35 AM
Both jobs are effectively the same. Both times you are selling your labour/body for a wage. It is only an individuals personal preference which dictates what they will be, pornstar or toilet cleaner?

And healthy individual preferences tend to go with the toilet cleaner.

Also, they're not the same. One does all sorts of damage to the individual and society. The other cleans toilets.

And yes, whilst we're still a capitalist society someone's going to be cleaning toilets.

Jack Off Jill
08-25-2008, 10:40 AM
Well you've hit on one of the key reasons, it's not necessary and I consider it to be bad and immoral (dodgy words in these modern, relativist times...). I also consider its effect to be negative.

But I still think there's something intrinsically different between selling your body and cleaning toilets. Yeah, cleaning toilets aint fun... but you wear gloves, etc. The jobs you listed i don't really think of them as degrading, i think that people's attitudes towards those jobs are degrading.
Yes, and thats where the difference lies. I think it should be up to the people who are working the job to decide if they think it is degrading or not. If a man can happily work at McDonald's to support his baby, and he doesn't feel degraded, good for him. If another man does the same job but feels like he's degraded because he's not of the same class as a doctor, well.. maybe he should get out. And I know you're going to bring up the drug addiction thing, but I still insist there are probably tons of drug users at McDonald's. And I still insist quitting drugs, though it is difficult, is still an option.

I also think being a musician isn't necessary, but it is still a noble thing to go out and give something of yourself to entertain a group of people who may take your message the wrong way, like how kids took Kurt Cobain the wrong way and killed themselves when he died. Or when they're forced into changing their music to get on their air so they, like in the case of Kurt, can pay for drugs. But we'll still support musicians. You're a fan of Amy Winehouse, aren't you?

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 10:41 AM
And healthy individual preferences tend to go with the toilet cleaner.

Also, they're not the same. One does all sorts of damage to the individual and society. The other cleans toilets.

And yes, whilst we're still a capitalist society someone's going to be cleaning toilets.
You could argue that a pornstar is living a potential rapist's dream and by him/her just watching it, it could satisfy him.
If there wasnt pornstars perhaps there'd be more rape and violence in the world.

Aside from the fact 99% of porn is pretty much normal sex. theres only a small amount which is truly barbaric.

Its a persons right to have sex, with who they like, how they like, when they like. On or off film for money. Hopefully some of us are adult enough to know that if you dont like it, dont watch it.

What right do you have to say that it has a negative effect on society?

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 10:49 AM
You could argue that a pornstar is living a potential rapist's dream and by him/her just watching it, it could satisfy him.
If there wasnt pornstars perhaps there'd be more rape and violence in the world.
"If you want to stop people from becoming like me, don't burn Catcher in the Rye, burn Hustler."
- Ted Bundy

Aside from the fact 99% of porn is pretty much normal sex. theres only a small amount which is truly barbaric.
Believing that porn sex is normal makes you (a) a virgin and (b) proof of what Meh and I have been saying, that porn affects men's ideas of what normal sexual behavior is.

Its a persons right to have sex, with who they like, how they like, when they like. On or off film for money.
That's not the question. The women in porn can do whatever the hell they want. The question is what it does to women as a whole.

Hopefully some of us are adult enough to know that if you dont like it, dont watch it.
Except we no longer live in a world where only people who go looking for porn are exposed to it.

What right do you have to say that it has a negative effect on society?
"If you want to keep people from becoming like me, don't burn Catcher in the Rye, burn Hustler."
- Ted Bundy

Gregoric
08-25-2008, 11:09 AM
I think the subject of Porn and that fact that it's degrading to women or not is rather complicated.

I mean some people may feel it's degrading for a woman to be screwed and cummed on whilst being filmed. Some women might say that it's making the woman an object.

Some women, however, may say that the woman is expressing herself sexually and some women might like being treated the way they are in Porn.

Women used to complain back in the old days about not being treated and viewed as sexual entities, women were forced to be modest and forced by society to be housewives and full time mothers etc.

Now when women have the freedom to get themselves off and be gotten off on camera, other women are complaining because they don't like what women are doing with their rights to freedom of expression.

If women feel that Porn is offensive to them then they can choose to not watch and if a Pornstar feels degraded by starring in porn then she can stop and get a real job somewhere.

meh!
08-25-2008, 11:12 AM
You could argue that a pornstar is living a potential rapist's dream and by him/her just watching it, it could satisfy him.
If there wasnt pornstars perhaps there'd be more rape and violence in the world.

Aside from the fact 99% of porn is pretty much normal sex. theres only a small amount which is truly barbaric.

Its a persons right to have sex, with who they like, how they like, when they like. On or off film for money. Hopefully some of us are adult enough to know that if you dont like it, dont watch it.

What right do you have to say that it has a negative effect on society?

YOu could aruge that, but I don't cause I doubt it's true.

Porn sex is not normal sex.

I didn't say it wasn't their right to do it, i'm saying it's bad to do so. bad for all of us

I have the right...that i'm part of society? :confused:

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 11:12 AM
"If you want to stop people from becoming like me, don't burn Catcher in the Rye, burn Hustler."
- Ted Bundy
You do realise he was coerced into saying that? Read about his case, nothing he did was related to porn. He had power and domination problems with women caused by his relationship to his mother. I mean he initially thought his mother was his grandma, he later in life found out it was his sister.

Aside from the fact he had his first sexual experiences repressed by Religion, and the fact that he even himself said he couldnt understand other people.


Believing that porn sex is normal makes you (a) a virgin and (b) proof of what Meh and I have been saying, that porn affects men's ideas of what normal sexual behavior is.
Really? I geuss you havent seen much porno. And no I am not a virgin, to be honest there isnt really much difference between the sex I have and the Average porno. Yeah maybe I cant thrust as fast or my GF doesnt give head the same way. But to be honest the mechanics is all the same, porno gives me great ideas of new posistions, new ways to do things with my partner. If you think sex is just the missionary and kissing then you have a very bland veiw of it. I like sex to be sponteneous, romantic and steamy.


That's not the question. The women in porn can do whatever the hell they want. The question is what it does to women as a whole.
I do not walk down the street thinking every woman wants it. In fact if what your saying is true that porn has a negatively adverse effect on people, society would be falling apart at the moment. we would all be sick rapists who just want power and domination.
The fact that the people in the porno's are consenting adults should be remembered.
Everyone has a choice in life.


Except we no longer live in a world where only people who go looking for porn are exposed to it.
Thats not societies fault. Thats your parents fault. If they couldnt stop you from looking at porn, or raising you to feel that sex shouldnt be spoken of, then I feel sorry for you.
I've had a very open upbringing, sex for me was never a big deal, never something to be ashamed of.

Lets think for a moment. The question isnt whether or not women are degraded in porn, its whether or not you percieve them to be degraded. And if you do, simple - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WATCH IT.

Are gay men degraded in porn? or are Men who like being dominated by women degraded in porn?

EDIT:

have the right...that i'm part of society?
yes your right, I shouldnt have said that. Its not good to say in a healthly debate.

meh!
08-25-2008, 11:18 AM
Yes, and thats where the difference lies. I think it should be up to the people who are working the job to decide if they think it is degrading or not. If a man can happily work at McDonald's to support his baby, and he doesn't feel degraded, good for him. If another man does the same job but feels like he's degraded because he's not of the same class as a doctor, well.. maybe he should get out. And I know you're going to bring up the drug addiction thing, but I still insist there are probably tons of drug users at McDonald's. And I still insist quitting drugs, though it is difficult, is still an option.

Well, they can think and do whatever they want. It doesn't mean that I can't think it's degrading and wrong...




I also think being a musician isn't necessary, but it is still a noble thing to go out and give something of yourself to entertain a group of people who may take your message the wrong way, like how kids took Kurt Cobain the wrong way and killed themselves when he died. Or when they're forced into changing their music to get on their air so they, like in the case of Kurt, can pay for drugs. But we'll still support musicians. You're a fan of Amy Winehouse, aren't you?

I am, but again your comparing two odd things. Music isn't really harmful to people. You've given two very specific examples, but really that's drugs that are harmful.

My point was that porn isn't neccesary and it's harmful. As opposed to being a musician which isn't strictly neccesary and harms no one ( so we should have it) or being a police officer which is neccesary but can harm people ( and we should have it). I'm divided on porn because I DO think it's bad, but should it be banned? Don't know.

meh!
08-25-2008, 11:20 AM
I think the subject of Porn and that fact that it's degrading to women or not is rather complicated.

I mean some people may feel it's degrading for a woman to be screwed and cummed on whilst being filmed. Some women might say that it's making the woman an object.

Some women, however, may say that the woman is expressing herself sexually and some women might like being treated the way they are in Porn.

Women used to complain back in the old days about not being treated and viewed as sexual entities, women were forced to be modest and forced by society to be housewives and full time mothers etc.

Now when women have the freedom to get themselves off and be gotten off on camera, other women are complaining because they don't like what women are doing with their rights to freedom of expression.

If women feel that Porn is offensive to them then they can choose to not watch and if a Pornstar feels degraded by starring in porn then she can stop and get a real job somewhere.

Reminds me of the song Generation sex by the Divine Comedy.

Generation sex
Respects
The rights
Of girls
Who want to take their clothes off
As long as we can all watch thats okay

Drmckool
08-25-2008, 11:21 AM
it's not degrading it's a job which they are compensated for simple as that.

untalented
08-25-2008, 11:22 AM
I think that you cannot compare being a pornstar to being a toilet cleaner/bin-man.
While the latter do "dirty" jobs, they actually create a clean environment that helps society to feel cleaner and that we'd all actually die without (through the spread of diseases; plague). A pornstar, however, makes people feel dirty whilst doing their dirty job at the same time. They don't benefit society by doing a necessary dirty job.

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 11:23 AM
I am, but again your comparing two odd things. Music isn't really harmful to people. You've given two very specific examples, but really that's drugs that are harmful.

My point was that porn isn't neccesary and it's harmful. As opposed to being a musician which isn't strictly neccesary and harms no one ( so we should have it) or being a police officer which is neccesary but can harm people ( and we should have it). I'm divided on porn because I DO think it's bad, but should it be banned? Don't know.
Music isnt neccessary and could be percieved as just as harmful. Songs about drugs, free sex, murder, rape, etc... all could influence people to do bad things. Porn could influence people to do bad things too. But thats a problem with the individual not with porn or music.

I think that you cannot compare being a pornstar to being a toilet cleaner/bin-man.
While the latter do "dirty" jobs, they actually create a clean environment that helps society to feel cleaner and that we'd all actually die without (through the spread of diseases; plague). A pornstar, however, makes people feel dirty whilst doing their dirty job at the same time. They don't benefit society by doing a necessary dirty job.
How do you know pornstars feel dirty doing their job?

TwistedLogic
08-25-2008, 11:33 AM
Yes, it degrades all women. Why; because it has an impact on how men view women in general. If you are a guy and watch porn regularly it could make you view woman as sex objects. All guys see women and judge their attractiveness, but it crosses the line when you think of how she would satisfy your sexual desires and urges rather than acknowledging HER attrativness. Say, when you walk down the street and see a woman and think, "man, I would like to have her licking my goo," that crosses the line because you are no longer admiring HER and her looks but thinking of yourself and how she as a tool at your disposal could satisfy your horny little desires. In the end you are no longer looking at women as much as through them.

As for the women who choose to work in porn, maybe some chicks just did sex and like being paid for it. Then there are others who are young and niave, or just plain stupid, and get exploited in the short term but get out because it ends up being more than they bargained for. I saw one woman oraling a guy. She got more than she bargained for as he got really rough and she was obvioulsy not digging it. I know some put on an act but this chick was definately being abused and did not like it one bit but the guy just kept pushing on her. It was sad really. Others might simply need the money and have few other options based on skills and or self esteem.

Yes I watch porn once and a while and it is simply a tool to get off once and a while. If I ain't jacking, I ain't watching. Some other guys might watch lots of porn, and they might have their views of woman skewed negatively because of it. The more porn you watch or view, the more you lose touch with the reality of how women act and look. That is my two cents.

geluidsterroris
08-25-2008, 11:38 AM
The guide to women:

Put your **** in them.

master
08-25-2008, 11:42 AM
it's not degrading it's a job which they are compensated for simple as that.

Exactly. They're being paid to ignore their morals and do something in front of the camera they would never do in their real life. That's the definition of degrading my friend.

master
08-25-2008, 11:43 AM
The guide to women:

Put your **** in them.

Result of too much porn? ;)

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 12:21 PM
Yes, it degrades all women. Why; because it has an impact on how men view women in general. If you are a guy and watch porn regularly it could make you view woman as sex objects. All guys see women and judge their attractiveness, but it crosses the line when you think of how she would satisfy your sexual desires and urges rather than acknowledging HER attrativness. Say, when you walk down the street and see a woman and think, "man, I would like to have her licking my goo," that crosses the line because you are no longer admiring HER and her looks but thinking of yourself and how she as a tool at your disposal could satisfy your horny little desires. In the end you are no longer looking at women as much as through them.

As for the women who choose to work in porn, maybe some chicks just did sex and like being paid for it. Then there are others who are young and niave, or just plain stupid, and get exploited in the short term but get out because it ends up being more than they bargained for. I saw one woman oraling a guy. She got more than she bargained for as he got really rough and she was obvioulsy not digging it. I know some put on an act but this chick was definately being abused and did not like it one bit but the guy just kept pushing on her. It was sad really. Others might simply need the money and have few other options based on skills and or self esteem.


And Women, dont in anyway view men as sexual objects? you know it takes two to tango, women have to be sexual attracted to you to get to know you.

If the girl was giving head and didnt enjoy it, she could have said no and stopped. or its rape.

Exactly. They're being paid to ignore their morals and do something in front of the camera they would never do in their real life. That's the definition of degrading my friend.
So you wouldnt have sex in real life because thats against your morals? Well if you want to be a virgin for the rest of your life thats fine.

master
08-25-2008, 12:32 PM
So you wouldnt have sex in real life because thats against your morals? Well if you want to be a virgin for the rest of your life thats fine.

No, having sex isn't against my morals. Having sex in front of a camera for money is. Having an abnormally large penis shoved down a throat until they gag is. Having a group of men screwing the same girl at once is. A guy calling a girl a whore while slapping them in the face is.

meh!
08-25-2008, 12:33 PM
Music isnt neccessary and could be percieved as just as harmful. Songs about drugs, free sex, murder, rape, etc... all could influence people to do bad things. Porn could influence people to do bad things too. But thats a problem with the individual not with porn or music.



Music doesn't do anything like Porn. You're building arguments out of nothing.

editor
08-25-2008, 12:35 PM
females make all the money in porn. women get up to a $1,000.00 per movie where as men only make $350.00 per movie... and yes i do know what i'm talking about!

bob farrell
08-25-2008, 12:36 PM
No, porn isn't degrading to women. That's like saying all people are terrorists, some of them are, but most of them aren't.
Some porn is aimed at degrading the woman featured, so that is degrading to that particular woman.
But porn in general is not degrading to women no.

master
08-25-2008, 12:38 PM
If the girl was giving head and didnt enjoy it, she could have said no and stopped. or its rape.


I don't think you're getting the fact that these girls NEED the ****ing money and can't get it any other way, so they do **** they don't enjoy. If you truly believe that the majority of pornstars go home after filming a scene and feel good and proud about what they've done then you're sadly mistaken. A huge reason they get into porn in the first place is because of their low confidence and self-esteem.

master
08-25-2008, 12:40 PM
females make all the money in porn. women get up to a $1,000.00 per movie where as men only make $350.00 per movie... and yes i do know what i'm talking about!

Actrually, there are women that are getting paid more than $10,000 for a particular scene like if it's a first-time anal of a really big star or something. ;)

TwistedLogic
08-25-2008, 12:47 PM
And Women, dont in anyway view men as sexual objects? you know it takes two to tango, women have to be sexual attracted to you to get to know you.

If the girl was giving head and didnt enjoy it, she could have said no and stopped. or its rape.

So you wouldnt have sex in real life because thats against your morals? Well if you want to be a virgin for the rest of your life thats fine.

Women do objectify men, but it is not nearly as prevelant as it is the other way around, partly because women tend to like romance and foreplay, with men its more about wham bam thank you mamm. A generalization but likely sort of true.

For the point about saying stop and rape, that is a pile of rubish. First off, tell me a 110 pound woman is going to force a 165 pound muscular man with his unit in her mouth off of her. It ain't gonna happen. As far as laying charges, two things; 1 it would be a he said she said thing in court, and 2 cops would look at a chick in porn as one step above a hooker and possibly not give a crap.

supergerbil
08-25-2008, 12:48 PM
I don't think you're getting the fact that these girls NEED the ****ing money and can't get it any other way, so they do **** they don't enjoy. If you truly believe that the majority of pornstars go home after filming a scene and feel good and proud about what they've done then you're sadly mistaken. A huge reason they get into porn in the first place is because of their low confidence and self-esteem.

You know this for a fact? Plenty of girls do it because of the money. A week working at MacDonalds or just two hours of porn? You don't know that it is because of their "low self esteem". It's not. To get into porn you have to contact someone. You don't accidentally end up doing it.

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 12:51 PM
I don't think you're getting the fact that these girls NEED the ****ing money and can't get it any other way, so they do **** they don't enjoy. If you truly believe that the majority of pornstars go home after filming a scene and feel good and proud about what they've done then you're sadly mistaken. A huge reason they get into porn in the first place is because of their low confidence and self-esteem.
Really? I doubt anyone would want to get raped for money. I think your confusing prostitution with Porn.

Who genuinely goes home after work and says ''wow, im proud and happy at my job'' literally only a few people.

Music doesn't do anything like Porn. You're building arguments out of nothing.
Really? so why does everyone make such a deal out of bands making kids do bad things like smoke dope or shoot people like at Columbine? Oh yeah, media hype and general consensus does not cold hard facts.

Not everyone who listens to rock, smokes crack and has long hair. Not everyone who watches porn wants to rape women and wank all day. Only a very small number of people in the world get influenced and act on what they've seen/heard.

No, having sex isn't against my morals. Having sex in front of a camera for money is. Having an abnormally large penis shoved down a throat until they gag is. Having a group of men screwing the same girl at once is. A guy calling a girl a ***** while slapping them in the face is.
So you think all porn is like that? seriously, thats like 1% of the porn industry, most people including me get turned off by the whole **** choking and anal destorying stuff, but unfortunately some people do like it, and some people dont mind doing it for money. Once again if they dont like it, they wouldnt do it. If you dont like it dont watch it.

Is having a threesome immoral? I dont regard it as immoral, I have had two girls at the same time, they enjoyed it, so did I. If they didnt want to do it, they would'nt have. Simple. For some people, some stuff is immoral for others it isnt. Heres an example - In Saudi Arabia women are allowed to show no skin in public. Thats immoral to us because we think we respect women by allowing them the freedoms we enjoy. But from a Saudi mans perspective we are degrading women by giving them freedom to wear what they want as they think men will lure at them.

master
08-25-2008, 12:54 PM
You know this for a fact? Plenty of girls do it because of the money. A week working at MacDonalds or just two hours of porn? You don't know that it is because of their "low self esteem". It's not. To get into porn you have to contact someone. You don't accidentally end up doing it.

I'm not quite sure if you're agreeing with me or not. I too said that they're doing it for the money. And I used to interview girls for bangbros so I've met plenty of pornstars. Trust me, they got problems.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 12:54 PM
This thread is starting to go south again. The questions of what constitutes rape, what is and is not moral, whether or not pornstars do their job by choice, etc. really don't address the topic of the thread.

EDIT: Anyone who claims to have had a threesome on an internet message board is lying, especially if they just got finished talking about how "normal" the sex in porn movies is.

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 12:56 PM
For the point about saying stop and rape, that is a pile of rubish. First off, tell me a 110 pound woman is going to force a 165 pound muscular man with his unit in her mouth off of her. It ain't gonna happen. As far as laying charges, two things; 1 it would be a he said she said thing in court, and 2 cops would look at a chick in porn as one step above a hooker and possibly not give a crap.
Its on camera... Thats all the evidence you need. If the police feel that way its a problem with the police not the porn actresses.

Women do objectify men, but it is not nearly as prevelant as it is the other way around, partly because women tend to like romance and foreplay, with men its more about wham bam thank you mamm. A generalization but likely sort of true.
Your using the same generalisations of women to justify why they wouldnt like porn.
I think you will find as you get older, alot of women are just like alot of men. Sex is fun, if a hot man comes onto them their just as likely to say yes if a hot girl comes onto a man. But the same applies, so men like romance and foreplay, for me I enjoy taking my girl out I love giving and recieving oral sex, but I am also partial to a quickie if its on offer.

This thread is starting to go south again. The questions of what constitutes rape, what is and is not moral, whether or not pornstars do their job by choice, etc. really don't address the topic of the thread.

EDIT: Anyone who claims to have had a threesome on an internet message board is lying.
And how would you know? This is pretty much the only topic I've ever been involved in due to the amount of negativism towards women in this thread. If you think porn is degrading, your one of the people who degrades women.

meh!
08-25-2008, 12:57 PM
Really? so why does everyone make such a deal out of bands making kids do bad things like smoke dope or shoot people like at Columbine? Oh yeah, media hype and general consensus does not cold hard facts.

Not everyone who listens to rock, smokes crack and has long hair. Not everyone who watches porn wants to rape women and wank all day. Only a very small number of people in the world get influenced and act on what they've seen/heard.



Because they're building arguments out of nothing as well. I'm not a retard. The people who go on about music causing columbine don't have a case, I do. The fashion industry dictates to the world ideas of beauty and everyone listens. People who say these thingsdon't affect us are simply wrong. They do, that's why the industry bothers to do it. Porn creates an unhealthy view of women and gives it to the people who watch it.

I've now been repeating my self in this thread for about three pages, I'm done.

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 01:01 PM
I'm not a retard. The people who go on about music causing columbine don't have a case, I do. The fashion industry dictates to the world ideas of beauty and everyone listens. People who say these thingsdon't affect us are simply wrong. They do, that's why the industry bothers to do it. Porn creates an unhealthy view of women and gives it to the people who watch it.

I've now been repeating my self in this thread for about three pages, I'm done.
I havent said they dont effect us. I've said we all have a choice and most people make the right ones. Its only a few that ruin it for the rest of the world. For example I mentioned Columbine because someone mentioned Ted Bundy. Music and Porn had pretty much nothing to do with what happend in either case but the general consensus is that it did without producing hard facts.

We all have a choice, I am defending freedom in this topic dude.

blackflag49
08-25-2008, 01:02 PM
I would say it varies, some of it's pretty degrading.
But watching the softcore Skinemax type of stuff, I guess it's more vulnerable to the PC police 'cause the woman's always on top..
Is having a threesome immoral? I dont regard it as immoral, I have had two girls at the same time, they enjoyed it, so did I.*cough cough cough*

I'll bet.

master
08-25-2008, 01:02 PM
Really? I doubt anyone would want to get raped for money. I think your confusing prostitution with Porn.

No, I'm saying they agree to get mistreated for money. How is that so hard to understand? And they sign release forms before the shoot, explaining exactly what's gonna happen to them. So if they suddenly change their mind during a shoot and the production team doesn't agree, they have absolutely no chance in a legal standpoint.


So you think all porn is like that? seriously, thats like 1% of the porn industry, most people including me get turned off by the whole **** choking and anal destorying stuff, but unfortunately some people do like it, and some people dont mind doing it for money. Once again if they dont like it, they wouldnt do it. If you dont like it dont watch it.

Dude...these girls are desperate for money. And porn has been becoming more and more hardcore over the years. It's very common to find deepthroating and anal in porn, which would have been a rarity in the 80's through 90's


Is having a threesome immoral? I dont regard it as immoral, I have had two girls at the same time, they enjoyed it, so did I. If they didnt want to do it, they would'nt have. Simple. For some people, some stuff is immoral for others it isnt.

I agree with you here. People do have different morals. My point is just that a lot of pornstars throw away and expand their morals for money

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 01:03 PM
And how would you know? This is pretty much the only topic I've ever been involved in due to the amount of negativism towards women in this thread.
People who anonymously boast of their sexual exploits on the internet are lying through their teeth 99.99% of the time. And your claim that porn sex is "normal" smacks of virginity.

If you think porn is degrading, your one of the people who degrades women.
I dare you to find one thing I have said in this thread that is negative or degrading toward women.

meh!
08-25-2008, 01:05 PM
I havent said they dont effect us. I've said we all have a choice and most people make the right ones. Its only a few that ruin it for the rest of the world. For example I mentioned Columbine because someone mentioned Ted Bundy. Music and Porn had pretty much nothing to do with what happend in either case but the general consensus is that it did without producing hard facts.

We all have a choice, I am defending freedom in this topic dude.

Freedom against what? My right to say that porn degrades women and has far reaching effects?

But it DOES. I don't have the power to take away anyone's freedom, but I think it's clear that porn does affect people in the way i've been saying.

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 01:10 PM
No, I'm saying they agree to get mistreated for money. How is that so hard to understand? And they sign release forms before the shoot, explaining exactly what's gonna happen to them. So if they suddenly change their mind during a shoot and the production team doesn't agree, they have absolutely no chance in a legal standpoint.
I dont think anyone could sign a form reliquishing them of their rights to not be raped. Not offence but all legal violent porn has safe words to stop the porno if things get too rough. I think its a testament to some of these peoples acting skills.


Dude...these girls are desperate for money. And porn has been becoming more and more hardcore over the years. It's very common to find deepthroating and anal in porn, which would have been a rarity in the 80's through 90's
A lot of pornstars earn an awful lot for very little work. Deep throating and Anal was common in households long before porn, Porn just gave a wider audience ideas. In the middle east and South Asian nations it is encouraged to have anal sex to preserve virginity for marriage. Like I said people have different morals.


I agree with you here. People do have different morals. My point is just that a lot of pornstars throw away and expand their morals for money
The debate at hand really is about Morals, and thats too big a subject. Right now though, people must have the right to do what they want with their bodies. if you think its wrong, dont acknowledge it and respect that it is their right to do what they want with their labour.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 01:10 PM
The music/porn comparison doesn't work, because the music business has nothing to gain from chainging people's feelings toward other people. By comparison, if men can get what they want from real women, the porn industry suffers.

master
08-25-2008, 01:10 PM
Who genuinely goes home after work and says ''wow, im proud and happy at my job'' literally only a few people.


Disagree completely.

JoshCrawford
08-25-2008, 01:13 PM
Freedom against what? My right to say that porn degrades women and has far reaching effects?

But it DOES. I don't have the power to take away anyone's freedom, but I think it's clear that porn does affect people in the way i've been saying.
You have the right to say it, I have the right to disagree.

Everything effects you, I mean seeing Violence and war on TV so much desensitises you to it. But doesnt make you want to do it right? Same principle as porn, just because you see it, doesnt mean you want to do it.

Anyway, I am done here.

master
08-25-2008, 01:17 PM
I dont think anyone could sign a form reliquishing them of their rights to not be raped. Not offence but all legal violent porn has safe words to stop the porno if things get too rough. I think its a testament to some of these peoples acting skills..

Yes, some people do have safe words, but it's not required. That actually causes a lot of problems with bondage videos, since often times the girls are getting gagged and can't speak during it. And it can't be considered rape if they agree to do it and sign the papers beforehand. My uncle used to be a lawyer in California, so he knows a lot about the adult industry.

EDIT: I'm done too. This is tiring. :p:

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 01:27 PM
We're getting off-track here, so I'll break down my side of this again:

Porn does degrade women, not so much the women who participate in it, but women as a whole.

#1 How:
Porn teaches unrealistic standards of female appearance and female behavior to young men before they have the opportunity to experience real healthy sexual relationships. Just look around the Pit (or anywhere else on the internet) and you will find a large segment of a generation of young men who think any woman who is not both (a) impossibly beautiful and (b) ecstatic to fulfill a man's every sexual desire at any time is an ugly, frigid bitch.

#2 Why:
Why would the porn industry want to do this? Because men who are unsatisfied with reality have to keep going back to fantasy. The porn industry has ballooned into the megapower that it is by creating an audience that expects women to be beautiful, mindless sex objects. This very naturally results in the degradation of women, and the porn industry profits from it.

bob farrell
08-25-2008, 01:32 PM
If they are not forced into it, if that particular porn is not intentionally degrading, then it is not degrading, because they do it for the cash, they know what is going to happen, and they are happy to do it, or at the least they are willing.
Sex is natural, it just so happens that these particular women and men are doing it on camera, intentionally trying to make it look better than it is, for cash, and also for people, from pit-dwellers to happily married couples, to enjoy as a sexual aid.
So please, someone explain to me what the issue is, and why somehow it only applies to female actresses?

master
08-25-2008, 01:33 PM
We're getting off-track here, so I'll break down my side of this again:

Porn does degrade women, not so much the women who participate in it, but women as a whole.

#1 How:
Porn teaches unrealistic standards of female appearance and female behavior to young men before they have the opportunity to experience real healthy sexual relationships. Just look around the Pit (or anywhere else on the internet) and you will find a large segment of a generation of young men who think any woman who is not both (a) impossibly beautiful and (b) ecstatic to fulfill a man's every sexual desire at any time is an ugly, frigid bitch.

#2 Why:
Why would the porn industry want to do this? Because men who are unsatisfied with reality have to keep going back to fantasy. The porn industry has ballooned into the megapower that it is by creating an audience that expects women to be beautiful, mindless sex objects. This very naturally results in the degradation of women, and the porn industry profits from it.

Agree completely. :)


corrupting: harmful to the mind or morals;

Porn is degrading, end of story.

walkinbazooka
08-25-2008, 01:42 PM
We're getting off-track here, so I'll break down my side of this again:

Porn does degrade women, not so much the women who participate in it, but women as a whole.

#1 How:
Porn teaches unrealistic standards of female appearance and female behavior to young men before they have the opportunity to experience real healthy sexual relationships. Just look around the Pit (or anywhere else on the internet) and you will find a large segment of a generation of young men who think any woman who is not both (a) impossibly beautiful and (b) ecstatic to fulfill a man's every sexual desire at any time is an ugly, frigid bitch.

#2 Why:
Why would the porn industry want to do this? Because men who are unsatisfied with reality have to keep going back to fantasy. The porn industry has ballooned into the megapower that it is by creating an audience that expects women to be beautiful, mindless sex objects. This very naturally results in the degradation of women, and the porn industry profits from it.
The porn industry kind of failed on me then.

Does chubby porn teach unrealistic standards of female appearance?
:o

darkstar2466
08-25-2008, 01:44 PM
We're getting off-track here, so I'll break down my side of this again:

Porn does degrade women, not so much the women who participate in it, but women as a whole.

#1 How:
Porn teaches unrealistic standards of female appearance and female behavior to young men before they have the opportunity to experience real healthy sexual relationships. Just look around the Pit (or anywhere else on the internet) and you will find a large segment of a generation of young men who think any woman who is not both (a) impossibly beautiful and (b) ecstatic to fulfill a man's every sexual desire at any time is an ugly, frigid bitch.

#2 Why:
Why would the porn industry want to do this? Because men who are unsatisfied with reality have to keep going back to fantasy. The porn industry has ballooned into the megapower that it is by creating an audience that expects women to be beautiful, mindless sex objects. This very naturally results in the degradation of women, and the porn industry profits from it.

i leik u

I can agree with you on those two points, but would you agree on my statement that it desensitizes and lowers the appreciation of the viewer to the act of sex?

RevaM1ssP1ss
08-25-2008, 01:49 PM
Does chubby porn teach unrealistic standards of female appearance?
:o
No but it teaches people how disgusting and freakish you'd have to be to want to have sex with someone who isn't slim :rolleyes:

I think it can degrade women, although not necessarily the women in it, as they're perfectly in control of their careers in most cases, though things can get out of hand.

It can lead to misconceptions for either sex though, although I don't know what people can exactly expect because it's a simulated situation, it's not reflective of real life.

Basically what I'm saying is it can go either way. Different people will interpret it in different ways but porn definitely leaves room for the objectification of women.

walkinbazooka
08-25-2008, 01:51 PM
No but it teaches people how disgusting and freakish you'd have to be to want to have sex with someone who isn't slim :rolleyes:

Yeah, those people are freaks.
http://www.johnnydeppwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/johnny-sag-feb05.jpg

thedude051
08-25-2008, 01:54 PM
We're getting off-track here, so I'll break down my side of this again:

Porn does degrade women, not so much the women who participate in it, but women as a whole.

#1 How:
Porn teaches unrealistic standards of female appearance and female behavior to young men before they have the opportunity to experience real healthy sexual relationships. Just look around the Pit (or anywhere else on the internet) and you will find a large segment of a generation of young men who think any woman who is not both (a) impossibly beautiful and (b) ecstatic to fulfill a man's every sexual desire at any time is an ugly, frigid bitch.

#2 Why:
Why would the porn industry want to do this? Because men who are unsatisfied with reality have to keep going back to fantasy. The porn industry has ballooned into the megapower that it is by creating an audience that expects women to be beautiful, mindless sex objects. This very naturally results in the degradation of women, and the porn industry profits from it.

This.

RevaM1ssP1ss
08-25-2008, 01:55 PM
Yeah, those people are freaks.
http://www.johnnydeppwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/johnny-sag-feb05.jpg
Hey don't worry, I'm on your side. But that's generally how it is unfortunately.

I am now however thrilled to receive information about Johnny Depp's.... relevant interests :) :p:

walkinbazooka
08-25-2008, 01:59 PM
Hey don't worry, I'm on your side. But that's generally how it is unfortunately.

I am now however thrilled to receive information about Johnny Depp's.... relevant interests :) :p:
Actually I just made that up. :p:

Grunge_Girl21
08-25-2008, 02:00 PM
Being a women, I hate the assumption.

My answer is yes, it degrades women, but only the women starring in the film and the was their choice.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 02:00 PM
i leik u

I can agree with you on those two points, but would you agree on my statement that it desensitizes and lowers the appreciation of the viewer to the act of sex?

I do agree, but I don't think that's a new problem.

RevaM1ssP1ss
08-25-2008, 02:01 PM
Actually I just made that up. :p:
Lying to me?! Pah.

Either way, if he did prefer bigger ladies I bet people wouldn't think HE was weird for it, but anybody else...

walkinbazooka
08-25-2008, 02:02 PM
Lying to me?! Pah.

Either way, if he did prefer bigger ladies I bet people wouldn't think HE was weird for it, but anybody else...
I guess that's true. None of my guy friends ever give me shit about my taste in girls, so not everyone's all bad.

Jack Off Jill
08-25-2008, 02:03 PM
Well, they can think and do whatever they want. It doesn't mean that I can't think it's degrading and wrong...




I am, but again your comparing two odd things. Music isn't really harmful to people. You've given two very specific examples, but really that's drugs that are harmful.

My point was that porn isn't neccesary and it's harmful. As opposed to being a musician which isn't strictly neccesary and harms no one ( so we should have it) or being a police officer which is neccesary but can harm people ( and we should have it). I'm divided on porn because I DO think it's bad, but should it be banned? Don't know.
I dunno, I imagine the influence some musicians have on kids could be pretty bad. :)

RevaM1ssP1ss
08-25-2008, 02:05 PM
I guess that's true. None of my guy friends ever give me shit about my taste in girls, so not everyone's all bad.
I imagine everybody's got a 'weird' liking for something, so it'd be wrong to criticise others for doing the same.

Plus they should support you, they're your friends after all.

Meths
08-25-2008, 02:23 PM
Wow, someone can't get his way so he tells the other person to shut up. I feel ashamed for arguing with you for so long.

I told you to shut up because I'm sick of trying to explain this incredibly basic concept to you and seeing it rebound of your dense head. I'm not a three year old, I don't have tempter tantrums just because things don't go my way.

And yes, whilst we're still a capitalist society someone's going to be cleaning toilets.

Do commies not bother? :haha

"If you want to stop people from becoming like me, don't burn Catcher in the Rye, burn Hustler."
- Ted Bundy

Ted Bundy = one crazy motherfucker.

Yes, it degrades all women. Why; because it has an impact on how men view women in general. If you are a guy and watch porn regularly it could make you view woman as sex objects. All guys see women and judge their attractiveness, but it crosses the line when you think of how she would satisfy your sexual desires and urges rather than acknowledging HER attrativness. Say, when you walk down the street and see a woman and think, "man, I would like to have her licking my goo," that crosses the line because you are no longer admiring HER and her looks but thinking of yourself and how she as a tool at your disposal could satisfy your horny little desires. In the end you are no longer looking at women as much as through them.

As for the women who choose to work in porn, maybe some chicks just did sex and like being paid for it. Then there are others who are young and niave, or just plain stupid, and get exploited in the short term but get out because it ends up being more than they bargained for. I saw one woman oraling a guy. She got more than she bargained for as he got really rough and she was obvioulsy not digging it. I know some put on an act but this chick was definately being abused and did not like it one bit but the guy just kept pushing on her. It was sad really. Others might simply need the money and have few other options based on skills and or self esteem.

Yes I watch porn once and a while and it is simply a tool to get off once and a while. If I ain't jacking, I ain't watching. Some other guys might watch lots of porn, and they might have their views of woman skewed negatively because of it. The more porn you watch or view, the more you lose touch with the reality of how women act and look. That is my two cents.

+1

You know this for a fact? Plenty of girls do it because of the money. A week working at MacDonalds or just two hours of porn? You don't know that it is because of their "low self esteem". It's not. To get into porn you have to contact someone. You don't accidentally end up doing it.

It is because of low self-esteem.

PatchworkMan
We're getting off-track here, so I'll break down my side of this again:

Porn does degrade women, not so much the women who participate in it, but women as a whole.

#1 How:
Porn teaches unrealistic standards of female appearance and female behavior to young men before they have the opportunity to experience real healthy sexual relationships. Just look around the Pit (or anywhere else on the internet) and you will find a large segment of a generation of young men who think any woman who is not both (a) impossibly beautiful and (b) ecstatic to fulfill a man's every sexual desire at any time is an ugly, frigid bitch.

#2 Why:
Why would the porn industry want to do this? Because men who are unsatisfied with reality have to keep going back to fantasy. The porn industry has ballooned into the megapower that it is by creating an audience that expects women to be beautiful, mindless sex objects. This very naturally results in the degradation of women, and the porn industry profits from it.

+1 to everything except that porn does not inherently do any of those things. Most does but they're not inherent to porn in general. It is possible to make porn that doesn't.

editor
08-25-2008, 02:33 PM
that does not happen often enough to even talk about. jenna jamison is big in the porn world granted but you won't see brad pit or chistina, brittany spears doing porn... 10,000 is not enough for them to even waste time so they will still be unknown or known in the adult video market... porn stars do not have the same clout as a real movie star... celeb status does not mean your gonna make the big bux either... the girl who did the video with gene simmons made a few grand (3) and that's it. :D

Actrually, there are women that are getting paid more than $10,000 for a particular scene like if it's a first-time anal of a really big star or something. ;)

meh!
08-25-2008, 02:34 PM
Do commies not bother? :haha






:haha that came out wrong!

lol, i was just really talking about work in a capitalist society, I didn't mean to be that specific, but I see now :haha

untalented
08-25-2008, 02:39 PM
If you think porn is degrading, your one of the people who degrades women.
Wow...
:eek:
I think you should just not talk.

bob farrell
08-25-2008, 02:47 PM
Huge generalisations going down. So many people watch porn and still have just as much respect for women as those of you who don't.
I watch porn as a sexual aid. Women happen to be in it, who are paid, and happy to do it(because they are doing it). I know sex isn't like that, unless you're a retard, no one thinks sex is like that.
The point is, I watch porn, and it hasn't made me lose respect for women. Most people who watch porn will tell you the same thing. The people on the net won't, that's because they are lying.
People like Jenna Jameson have said that it is in fact empowering, knowing they have men drooling all over videos and pictures of her, it makes her feel like she has control over men. In some porn, it is just plain fucking and oral, the women appear to be having fun and the ejaculation would testify to that, as are the men, and there is no gagging or violence or anything other than plain old normal sex.
It's just on camera. You are saying it's degrading, yet, most people who watch porn don't see it and think 'That's how all women should look and **** like!!'
You are generalising porns effect based on how the minority react to it.
Apply this to anything else, and you realise that what you are saying is pretty dangerous. Some muslims interpret their religion as a reason for terrorism, so lets kill all muslims!!! :rolleyes:
That is the logic you are following. And that is nothing but ignorant.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 02:59 PM
+1 to everything except that porn does not inherently do any of those things. Most does but they're not inherent to porn in general. It is possible to make porn that doesn't.
But that kind of porn wouldn't drive a multi-billion-dollar industry.

Meths
08-25-2008, 03:02 PM
I watch porn as a sexual aid. Women happen to be in it, who are paid, and happy to do it(because they are doing it). I know sex isn't like that, unless you're a retard, no one thinks sex is like that.

Because people only do things they're happy to do...

And unfortunately for your point, an awful lot of people are retarded.

The point is, I watch porn, and it hasn't made me lose respect for women. Most people who watch porn will tell you the same thing. The people on the net won't, that's because they are lying.
People like Jenna Jameson have said that it is in fact empowering, knowing they have men drooling all over videos and pictures of her, it makes her feel like she has control over men. In some porn, it is just plain fucking and oral, the women appear to be having fun and the ejaculation would testify to that, as are the men, and there is no gagging or violence or anything other than plain old normal sex.

That's called "filling the void created by self-esteem issues". She's hardly the best example given that she's the victim of gang rape.

But that kind of porn wouldn't drive a multi-billion-dollar industry.

True. Still doesn't mean there isn't porn like that and there couldn't be porn like that.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 03:09 PM
It's just on camera. You are saying it's degrading, yet, most people who watch porn don't see it and think 'That's how all women should look and **** like!!'
You are generalising porns effect based on how the minority react to it.
Apply this to anything else, and you realise that what you are saying is pretty dangerous. Some muslims interpret their religion as a reason for terrorism, so lets kill all muslims!!! :rolleyes:
That is the logic you are following. And that is nothing but ignorant.

Here's why you're wrong:
People accuse ICP and Marylin Manson (for example) of writing music that causes people to kill themselves. Obviously, this is a generalization based on how a small minority reacts to it. Porn is different because porn is designed to get the effect I am talking about. ICP and Marylin Manson have nothing to gain from causing their audience to committ suicide. Porn, on the other hand, has built itself into a multi-billion-dollar industry by intentionally creating a false image of women. If they hadn't created this false image, there wouldn't be the audience for porn that there is today.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 03:10 PM
True. Still doesn't mean there isn't porn like that and there couldn't be porn like that.
True enough. I guess I'm not saying that all porn necessarily degrades women; I'm saying that the mainstream adult entertainment industry and the product they popularly peddle degrade women.

Spaceman_Spiff
08-25-2008, 03:12 PM
Yeah, because having a well-paying job and expressing your sexuality is degrading.

Meths
08-25-2008, 03:14 PM
^In the way they do it, yes.

True enough. I guess I'm not saying that all porn necessarily degrades women; I'm saying that the mainstream adult entertainment industry and the product they popularly peddle degrade women.

+1

meh!
08-25-2008, 03:17 PM
OMG

Me, Meths and Patch are all in agreement.

...

*meh! checks the river...*

No, not boiling :/

bob farrell
08-25-2008, 03:21 PM
@Patchwork and Meths: OK. I am not agreeing but I see what you are getting at and it does make sense. Oh, and if they are not forced into it Meths, then if they weren't happy doing it, they wouldn't. If I was making that much money for having sex I'd be a pretty happy chappy.
And the way you talk about these pornstars like they have no mind of their own is kind of worrying, I mean talk about degrading women, they made a career choice, and you are saying that it is because they are damaged goods? That's pretty ****ing degrading . . . .

Meths
08-25-2008, 03:24 PM
OMG

Me, Meths and Patch are all in agreement.

...

*meh! checks the river...*

No, not boiling :/

Probability suggests you two have to be right some time. :p:

Oh, and if they are not forced into it Meths, then if they weren't happy doing it, they wouldn't. If I was making that much money for having sex I'd be a pretty happy chappy.

Plenty of people do things they aren't happy doing. You do things if you need to, not necessarily because you want to. Earning money is something most people feel the need to do.

And the way you talk about these pornstars like they have no mind of their own is kind of worrying, I mean talk about degrading women, they made a career choice, and you are saying that it is because they are damaged goods? That's pretty ****ing degrading . . . .

We haven't said that they all are. And it's not degrading, just rude. And it's also true, people do weird things like that.

Spaceman_Spiff
08-25-2008, 03:24 PM
^In the way they do it, yes.



+1
How so? Porn actresses dont ask to represent all females. They are simply either making a living, expressing their sexuality, or both. Porn does not inherently degrade women. It only degrades women if we allow it to through our interpretation. Personally, when I watch the pr0nz I recognize that it is a fictional situation, and as such has no bearing on how I treat women in real life.

In my opinion, porn is only truly degrading to men, as it has a tendency to desensitize us, in addition to having potential for habitual addiction.

master
08-25-2008, 03:25 PM
@Patchwork and Meths: OK. I am not agreeing but I see what you are getting at and it does make sense. Oh, and if they are not forced into it Meths, then if they weren't happy doing it, they wouldn't. If I was making that much money for having sex I'd be a pretty happy chappy.
And the way you talk about these pornstars like they have no mind of their own is kind of worrying, I mean talk about degrading women, they made a career choice, and you are saying that it is because they are damaged goods? That's pretty ****ing degrading . . . .

I think the point is that the majority don't make a "choice" to go into porn. It's the only option, or they think it's the only option, they have to support themselves.

bob farrell
08-25-2008, 03:31 PM
I think the point is that the majority don't make a "choice" to go into porn. It's the only option, or they think it's the only option, they have to support themselves.
That is complete bullshit. If you are not forced, you are choosing. It is that simple. I'd rather be homeless than go into porn, if I can accept that choice, anyone can.

master
08-25-2008, 03:38 PM
That is complete bullshit. If you are not forced, you are choosing. It is that simple. I'd rather be homeless than go into porn, if I can accept that choice, anyone can.

Oh yeah, big talker...:rolleyes: You've never been in their situation so don't even pretend to know how you would handle it.

bob farrell
08-25-2008, 03:40 PM
Oh yeah, big talker...:rolleyes: You've never been in their situation so don't even pretend to know how you would handle it.
Porn or homelessness. I choice homelessness. And that is very rarely the choice they face. The way you talk like they are desperate and have no choice and are helpless victims is more degrading than any porn . . . . . . . . .

master
08-25-2008, 03:48 PM
Porn or homelessness. I choice homelessness. And that is very rarely the choice they face. The way you talk like they are desperate and have no choice and are helpless victims is more degrading than any porn . . . . . . . . .

Like I said a few pages back. I've had a job with a production company interviewing girls. The majority are in some kind of deep trouble and have to go into porn to get out of it.

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 03:57 PM
@Patchwork and Meths: OK. I am not agreeing but I see what you are getting at and it does make sense. Oh, and if they are not forced into it Meths, then if they weren't happy doing it, they wouldn't. If I was making that much money for having sex I'd be a pretty happy chappy.
And the way you talk about these pornstars like they have no mind of their own is kind of worrying, I mean talk about degrading women, they made a career choice, and you are saying that it is because they are damaged goods? That's pretty ****ing degrading . . . .
Yeah, I'm not even getting into the actresses. What they want to do with their own bodies is their own business. I'm far more concerned with how porn affects us all as a whole.

Fate_of_Mind
08-25-2008, 03:59 PM
I'm going to go with Penn & Teller's episode of Bull**** on this one..

PatchworkMan
08-25-2008, 04:00 PM
Yeah, because having a well-paying job and expressing your sexuality is degrading.
Note:
The idea that all (or even most) porn actresses are well-paid is a myth. Porn is like any other form of entertainment: the big stars get the big bucks, and everyone else squeaks by.

MetalUpTheAss
08-25-2008, 04:04 PM
Way too few pictures.

Thread deemed gay.

Jackal58
08-25-2008, 04:07 PM
So everbody that says "Porn no problem" do me a favor. Visualize your mother or sister or maybe when you get older your daughter "working" in the industry. Still ain't got a problem with it????

Craigo
08-25-2008, 04:08 PM
That is complete bullshit. If you are not forced, you are choosing. It is that simple. I'd rather be homeless than go into porn, if I can accept that choice, anyone can.
You keep saying that.

Porn is prostitution. The only difference is that there's a camera and publishing involved. Most people don't get like that over night. Most people don't wake up one morning and think 'you know what? Being a call girl will help do me a lot of financial favours, it looks like a good move...'

In reality, they get pushed into it by poverty. And poverty can happen by things out of their control surprisingly.

Also, have you ever lived on the streets? I know a lovely bloke on the streets. Graham Walker. Great man, great writer. Why is he still on the streets after 10 years? Because it's bloody hard to get off it. No-one wants to employ a homeless person. No-one wants to employ someone with a bad job record. No-one wants to employ someone with a criminal record. However, those who employ women into porn do not care about these things.

No-one wants to work on minimum wage, but a lot of people do it out of desperation. This is just another few steps further. It's a different scenario and is worse.

blacklabelsdmf
08-25-2008, 06:33 PM
its only degrading if theres a fat ugly chick getting ****ed

Toolfan11
08-25-2008, 11:04 PM
They do it because of the money? Oh and men who do gay porn get like 2-3 times more $$ then the would from straight porn videos.

Spaceman_Spiff
08-25-2008, 11:18 PM
Note:
The idea that all (or even most) porn actresses are well-paid is a myth. Porn is like any other form of entertainment: the big stars get the big bucks, and everyone else squeaks by.
Fair enough, but the point is that its a job. People need jobs. Are waitresses degrading to women because they dont get paid a lot either?

And what about the guys in porn? Are they degrading to men?

master
08-26-2008, 02:25 PM
And what about the guys in porn? Are they degrading to men?

Yes but the focus in straight porn is on the women. The guys are just props. Often times you never even see their face.

WARLOCK123
08-26-2008, 02:26 PM
I feel bad looking at porn simply because of the ol' story that a lot of those girls were molested as children, and that's why they're willing to degrade their bodies.

But I've never heard of midgets being molested, so it doesn't matter to me anymore, as that's the only kind of porn I watch.


how do you know that they were molested as kids?

Roookie
08-26-2008, 02:27 PM
Nope, it just make them more useful..... No seriously, they choose to do porn themselves, they degrade themselves.

dead_beats
08-26-2008, 02:32 PM
What a man chooses to do, in the privacy of his own attic is his business alone

Serioously though Rookie is right they choose to do it.

fenderdude06
08-26-2008, 02:39 PM
honestly, when i watch porn my penis gets hard.

so idk.

MooshMooshMarc
08-26-2008, 02:47 PM
degrades dudes too! :P

but tbh i don't really see the difference between professional porn and prostitution, only difference is theres a camera involved

woMANintheBOX19
08-26-2008, 02:50 PM
Women in porn choose to be in it..at least I think so. Obviously, it's not degrading to them if they're doing it..

LesPaulLeader08
08-26-2008, 02:51 PM
Women in porn choose to be in it..at least I think so. Obviously, it's not degrading to them if they're doing it..

I must agree with this statement.

GHJ
08-26-2008, 03:01 PM
Degrading to womankind? Not imo, can it be degrading for particular performers? Yes I think so in certain circumstances, some type of porn revolve around degrading women. However, so long as the participants are willing, and wouldn't wish it any differently, then its ok with me. I don't believe in regulating social behaviour unless it's causing a particular direct detrimental effect to others.

MHDrunk
08-27-2008, 04:13 AM
The fact is that we can separate sexual gratification from the emotional nourishment that comes with a relationship. Meaning that all these arguments about porn degrading womankind because it prompts males to think of women only insofar as they can provide sexual gratification - are null and void.

When you have a look at a woman on the street, there's no real difference between 'yea she's pretty'/'nice rack'/'i wanna sodomise her' - all are based on her physical characteristics anyway.

The Entertainer
08-27-2008, 04:29 AM
If the so said "Porn" is tasteful then no. It doesn't.

MHDrunk
08-27-2008, 05:14 AM
why dont you define 'tasteful'

if its dead or not human or no consent then thats bad taste, definitely

but alive and consenting, how is that not tasteful?

ldl67
08-27-2008, 05:28 AM
Yes, it makes me furiously shake my fist in anger! :p:

Meths
08-27-2008, 02:32 PM
Women in porn choose to be in it..at least I think so. Obviously, it's not degrading to them if they're doing it..

...That's a non sequitur.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/degrading

Doesn't say anything in there about choice.

When you have a look at a woman on the street, there's no real difference between 'yea she's pretty'/'nice rack'/'i wanna sodomise her' - all are based on her physical characteristics anyway.

...Yeah, there is a difference.

MHDrunk
08-29-2008, 11:33 PM
nah, there isnt.

shadow__666
08-29-2008, 11:38 PM
Basically my view is thus: If a woman is so desperate for attention, money and the so-called easy life that she's willing to allow millions of horny men to watch her naked and f*cking, then that's her choice and we shouldn't comment on it.

xPsychoSaiko
08-29-2008, 11:39 PM
Nope. It doesn't degrade women.

Men are in porn too, ya know?

>.>

Bleh. It's their choice whether to do it or not. If they don't think it's degrading, then it can't be.

xPsychoSaiko
08-29-2008, 11:41 PM
Yes, it makes me furiously shake my fist in anger! :p:
First lol-worthy thing I've seen today. Thanks for sharing? xD

That_Hot_Guy
08-29-2008, 11:52 PM
why the **** does it matter? /thread

Imp
08-30-2008, 04:01 AM
Nope. It doesn't degrade women.

Men are in porn too, ya know?

>.>

Bleh. It's their choice whether to do it or not. If they don't think it's degrading, then it can't be.

Quoted for truth (I love long life threads.)

Actually -- the only time any porn participant feels bad about their job is when they realize all they are doing is having sex for a living instead of doing something to benefit mankind. ie.. a real job.

billybusa
08-30-2008, 04:35 AM
nopes

Cosimo_Zaretti
08-30-2008, 06:25 AM
So do you think porn degrades women ?

Kind of the point isn't it?

the evil edge
08-30-2008, 06:29 AM
I don't think porn degrades women, It just raises the standard by which they are judged.

Jordmo
08-30-2008, 06:40 AM
Lydia Lunch: "No pornography exploits women. It exploits men. It’s the men that are made to look stupid, silly and ridiculous, chasing after the golden elixir. Women look beautiful, do what they wanna do and get paid for it."

i agree.

Z_cup_boy
08-30-2008, 07:40 AM
It degrades the individuals involved. If it is heterosexual porn it must degrade the male as well.

Meths
08-30-2008, 02:47 PM
It degrades the individuals involved. If it is heterosexual porn it must degrade the male as well.

NON SEQUITUR.

If two people take part in a degrading act, it does not necessarily degrade both.

GaijinFoot
08-30-2008, 02:50 PM
not gay porn

af_the_fragile
08-30-2008, 02:52 PM
what do you mean?
Women were made for porn!

psilocyndreams2
10-05-2008, 07:06 PM
indeed, porn degrades women, but we can't all win, can we?

anyways, a lot of those chicks are gross anyways, so i don't think it gives women an unrealistic standard to set themselves at.

and i agree that it's worse for men because the guys in the videos are all assholes who say the stupidest shit, and it also gives men an unrealistic portrayal of how huge their dicks should be.

and lol at gaijin's comment

mreed1990
10-05-2008, 07:11 PM
I don't care I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove porn.

llanafreak44
10-05-2008, 07:18 PM
Who cares? If they think money is more important than their dignity and self respect, does it matter if it degrades them? (I'm speaking about the female in the porn, not all women.)

Peaceful Rocker
10-05-2008, 07:21 PM
No, women enjoy porn too.

dudetheman
10-05-2008, 07:24 PM
I don't think it degrades women.

Some say that it causes men to have higher expectations of women, but I disagree. Most of the more "extreme" or "disgusting" types of sex depicted in porn were around before the internet. Also, I believe that male chauvinism and spousal abuse is something that comes from a combination of temperment and life experiences, not porn.

Hell, I'm an example. I've watched some pretty hardcore porn in my day, but I would never expect or insist that a woman perform those acts. If a woman came to me and requested or suggested performing those acts I would consider it, but I would never demand them.

Also, I would never abuse a woman. My father abused my mother and it sickened me soo much that I vowed never to do so and to put a stop to it whenever possible.

Sometimes I think I may be too nice to women.

The douchebaggish guys are the ones who always seem to get the girls while I'm stuck in the "friend zone." :(

terrencemaddox
10-05-2008, 07:25 PM
Lydia Lunch: "No pornography exploits women. It exploits men. It’s the men that are made to look stupid, silly and ridiculous, chasing after the golden elixir. Women look beautiful, do what they wanna do and get paid for it."

i agree.
So true. Every time I see a young lady on her knees with a face full of love cream I always marvel at how beautiful and in control of her career she is.

Meths
10-06-2008, 11:46 AM
So true. Every time I see a young lady on her knees with a face full of love cream I always marvel at how beautiful and in control of her career she is.

:haha

Pornstars who try to justify it in terms of feminism are fucking hilarious.

Bendybaws
10-06-2008, 11:47 AM
No, porn is not degrading, take 2 girls one cup for example...oh wait

saphrax
10-06-2008, 11:49 AM
Not degrading.

They either chose to do it, or are greedy enough to do it.

Bendybaws
10-06-2008, 11:51 AM
Not degrading.

They either chose to do it, or are greedy enough to do it.
Take bukkake for example - one cum shot not enough fatty! :liplick:

noxiosimitator
10-06-2008, 12:03 PM
no, because they choose too and they make much much more money making it then men do

Meths
10-06-2008, 12:18 PM
The fact that they get paid for it or that they choose to do it does not make it not degrading. :confused:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/degrading

pak1351
10-06-2008, 12:36 PM
Sure it is, there's not really a question.

JamMan*
02-12-2009, 02:26 PM
']No, they do it because they choose to.

They degrade themselves. Not the whole female population of the world.
The end.

metalblaster
02-12-2009, 02:27 PM
who cares lol

p o e
02-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Yes.

Women who are that... Careless with they're bodies, set a bad example for guys.

Porn is one of the things, in my humble opinion, that causes girls to be very insecure, because they can't live up to the things done in porn.

Well... Some girls can. ;)

KeeF23
02-12-2009, 02:44 PM
i dunno if i'd be down with datin a porn chick but that might just be me