band members that don't want to learn music theory


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gutsman
02-24-2008, 08:43 PM
how do you deal with this!?

it annoys, im in a metal band (playing bass) and our two guitarists refuse to learn music theory. i would be ok with this, except for that fact that our goal is pretty much to play and create technical metal songs.

i told them gently that it would really help if they just catch up on the basics (they don't know anything about notes or chords) but they keep shrugging it off saying that it'll diminish their creativity and that it's not worth the effort to learn.

how do i convince these guys!? they are pretty good at playing the guitar technical wise and i like them as a person but i really see it as a limitation if they have such a negative attitude against grasping the basics.

has anyone ever had similar experienced to this?? if so any input is appreciated!

SFPD2
02-24-2008, 10:10 PM
Show them something cool you wrote on bass or guitar, and tell them how you used theory to help you. Either that or set up a jam session in a key and sprinkle knowlege on them little by little in how to play in key or something.

TheStraightener
02-25-2008, 01:08 AM
Wait, they want to play technical metal, and they refuse to learn theory?! Those guitarists need a hard slap across the face!

First of all, theory doesn't diminish creativity, as long as you don't get trapped by it. Going against centuries of intense musical research is absolutely retarded. If you want to call yourself a musician, you have to know how music works! Really, your guitarists are pathetic.

According to my music teacher in my former school band, if you can play scales, you can play anything. Learning theory and scales just opens up so many possibilities and can help you so much.

I don't know how to convince your guitarists. They need to realize that if they want to play technical metal, they absolutely have to know theory, otherwise they won't be playing technically.

Colohue
02-25-2008, 06:36 AM
When they encounter other guitarists suddenly they'll want to learn theory. It's worked for all my students so far. The fact that they can't understand a word any other guitarist says when it comes to writing music will force them to work out theory, even if it's just so they can do that to some other unexpecting guitarist.

reedplaysgeetar
02-26-2008, 05:04 PM
ya i dont think it matters that much as long as they have like a really good ear and have talent like the guy from death didnt know theory

Missingno476
02-26-2008, 06:01 PM
Write a kickass riff based on a chord progression, then bring it to practice, tell them the chords, then start playing at it and look at them like they're stupid when they don't start coming up w/ ****.

Bullet-Rule
02-26-2008, 06:17 PM
Show them this thread. Honestly, they'd feel stupid and humiliated. :p: Also, demonstrate some covers or riffs from other bands that use scales and music theory. It's much better using theory to create songs rather than just guessing any notes to play and putting them in any order.

TechnicolorType
02-26-2008, 11:39 PM
Wait until they show you a song they wrote.
Every 4 beats, the key changes?...

andersoncouncil
02-27-2008, 11:30 PM
Well, I've just started with a bassist who isn't really excited to learn music theory. He's said he'll learn it because we want him too. I have higher status in this band because I started it and I know more theory than the other two.

So far, I've had to write his parts too. He can tell that I know what I'm doing (at least more than he does) and that I'm much more productive at writing songs, so he's been trying to learn it fairly well.

Maybe if you're writing all the good music, they'll realise the importance of theory. Of course, you'd have to play guitar too.

I think he's also willing to learn it because he's tried to start his own "bands" with his friends, and they ended up messing around and not learning their theory or even how to play the instruments properly.

TheStraightener
02-28-2008, 12:52 AM
Oh, and here's one more thing. According to my guitar teacher, I'm the only one of his students that actually takes the time to learn and memorize all the theory that he throws at me (which is a ****ing ton). Also according to him, I'm his fastest progressing student, and I'm able to form a really good band that could go somewhere. Theory helps. It's a fact. I'm the proof.

cactus
02-28-2008, 04:00 AM
I agree with colohue; show them some guitar players that they like use deep theory, and everyone's suggestion of writing a kickass riff based off a chord progression is also a great idea.

Colohue
02-28-2008, 08:37 AM
Stick something in Mixolydian.

See if they follow it at all.

Zycho
02-28-2008, 04:37 PM
Write a song and explain how you used theory.

P.B.
02-28-2008, 06:35 PM
i've run into this problem,
when they want any type of an explanation i'd just talk 'theory jargon', they will ask what the hell i'm talking about then you explain, slowly they'll pick up the slack.

hmmm_de_hum
03-02-2008, 05:48 PM
Time signatures, easiest way to introduce theory, make a riff that varies around a couple of time sigs then watch them try to keep in time.

OpposingForce
03-02-2008, 06:21 PM
Just have him sit down and say "dude..we're in a technical metal band, theory is critical here" and try to push him to learn some theory in ways the other guys here explained. However if he just keeps ignoring you and not learning the theory, you have 2 options, keep putting up with it, or kick him out/quit.

kidcasino
03-03-2008, 12:37 AM
I've got the solution - damnining tribal humiliation! Invite all your friends to practice (as well as any guitarists you know) and during a song, stop it, put down your bass and give them a good shouting. Point out their weakneses in front of everyone. Go into a rant that inludes stuff like "surgeons need to learn the basics before performing heart surgery", After that, they should feel so stupid and start complying with you wishes.

Seriously, take each of them aside at certain points, don't talk down to them and offer your help. I've had this problem with a number of bands and usually, their unwillingness to learn is due to them feeling that they are somehow rubbish and amatureish by having to go "back to square one of learning guitar" and possibly not succeeding. Its a confidence and ego thing.

If all else fails, use the first suggestion. It seems to work!

SeanHart213
03-03-2008, 01:09 AM
tell them to use this site and guitar pro software. if they refuse, then learn guitar and be the songwriter of the band (show them the riffs in tab form lol)

i've had this problem with DRUMMERS
holy **** its so aggrivating trying to teach a drummer how to play a 9/4 breakdown when they only know 4/4 and 3/4 by nature

Truteno-the spi
03-05-2008, 03:25 PM
just keep using music theory stuff on them. i didn't want to learn music theory for awhile but i just hit this wall that i just couldn't advance more in playing unless i took music theory. thier'll realize it too eventually.