'True' Punk and Ska..?


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Pott
03-05-2008, 07:34 AM
Come on guys, how old are we...? If Blink and Green Day aren't punk then what are they? Indie..? Three chords, distorted, medium to fast tempo... I honestly don't get why so much elitism. It's childish. Let people call whatever music they like whatever genre they want no?

So anyway my question is: why aren't blink and green day punk? I listen to them alongside Rancid, US Bombs, The Clash, Pulley, Ten Foot Pole, NoFx, Pennywise, 1208, 98 Mute, Death by Stereo... and they still feel punk to me...

red_hot_chili18
03-05-2008, 07:49 AM
Come on guys, how old are we...? If Blink and Green Day aren't punk then what are they? Indie..? Three chords, distorted, medium to fast tempo... I honestly don't get why so much elitism. It's childish. Let people call whatever music they like whatever genre they want no?

So anyway my question is: why aren't blink and green day punk? I listen to them alongside Rancid, US Bombs, The Clash, Pulley, Ten Foot Pole, NoFx, Pennywise, 1208, 98 Mute, Death by Stereo... and they still feel punk to me...

they are punk they've just got quite famous.

starvethepoor
03-05-2008, 07:51 AM
yeah i know dude, but most people hate it cos theyre all ****ing metalheads. Greenday, Blink and the rest of the bands are punk rock. and if people dont like it then **** them.

DisgruntledDuck
03-05-2008, 08:21 AM
I bet that if I called Avril Lavigne punk rock, you'd be one of the first trolls to miss the sarcasm and go on some enraged diatribe about why I'm a douchebag and why Avril Lavigne isn't punk.

Yeah, we should let people define bands as they please. But the fact is, the general consensus on this forum is that Green Day and Blink 182 are not punk rock. There is a sticky that tells you this. This forum does not need a constant wave of bitching and moaning threads started by fan-boys that want to achieve some bizarre form of "punk legitimacy" by getting one of the regulars to admit that the bands they like are "true punk."

In short, CAN PEOPLE PLEASE STOP MAKING THREADS LIKE THIS?!

Thanks =\

linear-equation
03-05-2008, 08:38 AM
Three chords, distorted, medium to fast tempo = punk.

!!!

Oh, and why did you list your thread as 'True' Punk and Ska? You didn't talk about ska.

Pott
03-05-2008, 08:38 AM
I bet that if I called Avril Lavigne punk rock, you'd be one of the first trolls to miss the sarcasm and go on some enraged diatribe about why I'm a douchebag and why Avril Lavigne isn't punk.

Yeah, we should let people define bands as they please. But the fact is, the general consensus on this forum is that Green Day and Blink 182 are not punk rock. There is a sticky that tells you this. This forum does not need a constant wave of bitching and moaning threads started by fan-boys that want to achieve some bizarre form of "punk legitimacy" by getting one of the regulars to admit that the bands they like are "true punk."

In short, CAN PEOPLE PLEASE STOP MAKING THREADS LIKE THIS?!

Thanks =\

Nah. You can call Avril Lavigne as you want. Does she makes songs with three chords, quite fast and quite punky...? We've kinda escaped her in Europe so I don't really know what she does. I only know one tune called Skater Boy (over played and got annoying) and I'd call it punk.
And who said I was a fan? I enjoy some Green Day, some Blink 182, doesn't mean I'm a 'fanboy'. As a matter of fact I wouldn't want to be called a Fanboy of ANY bands, metal, punk, ska, or whatever thank you very much.
I don't want anyone to agree or disagree, I don't care. I just want people to realize just how useless and childish it is. Just let people do whatever they want.

Pott
03-05-2008, 08:39 AM
Three chords, distorted, medium to fast tempo = punk.

!!!

Oh, and why did you list your thread as 'True' Punk and Ska? You didn't talk about ska.

Dunno actually. The subforum is called Punk and Ska so I just typed that. I did it after reading the sticky about blink and green day. But hell I did hear a lot of people say bands like Reel Big Fish or Less Than Jake aren't Ska.

It's like some people take pride in not liking famous bands...

neidnarb11890
03-05-2008, 09:45 AM
d'oh. >_<

Green Day and Blink both started out as pop-punk bands, and later became pop-rock.
Don't get me wrong, pop-punk's not a bad thing. And I quite enjoy some Green Day now and then myself.

However, it's a common misconception that anything with three power chords played fast with distortion is punk. This is not true. Of course, The Ramones did this, and we all know punks love them. But that doesn't mean everyone who does that is punk.

Basically, the reason Green Day and blink 182 threads aren't allowed is because:
a) Neither band is punk.
b) We would get people in here who have no idea what punk is. And we're elitist cocksuckers.

Pott
03-05-2008, 10:08 AM
d'oh. >_<

Green Day and Blink both started out as pop-punk bands, and later became pop-rock.
Don't get me wrong, pop-punk's not a bad thing. And I quite enjoy some Green Day now and then myself.

However, it's a common misconception that anything with three power chords played fast with distortion is punk. This is not true. Of course, The Ramones did this, and we all know punks love them. But that doesn't mean everyone who does that is punk.

Basically, the reason Green Day and blink 182 threads aren't allowed is because:
a) Neither band is punk.
b) We would get people in here who have no idea what punk is. And we're elitist cocksuckers.

haha well ok put it that way... it made me chuckle. Well as long as you guys are aware of it I guess eh :cool:

recklessnick
03-05-2008, 10:17 AM
I only know one tune called Skater Boy (over played and got annoying) and I'd call it punk.


LOL I HATE PUNK NOW! ZOMGZOMGZOMG

well, blink-182 and greenday are pop-punk to me. its different from punk rock. listen to the guys who started punk, ramones, sex pistols, etc. or streetpunk or 80s hardcore or any ska for that matter and tell me it sounds like blink-182 and greenday, and yes they all play 3 chords and are medium-fast tempo. sometimes i wonder why strung out aint classified as metalcore because they use double pedals and have guitar solos.
no one is being childish or elitist. it is a full blown FACT (if u read up about the genre and listen) that blink-182 and greenday are not punk rock, but pop-punk. avril lavigne, on the other hand, is so far away from punk rock or pop-punk you cant even touch it with with my penis

Pott
03-05-2008, 10:22 AM
... Again... you're taking genres for granted. Some people may have different views. Hell I think Trivium are metal, but on here they're called Hardcore.

I can compare the US Bombs or the Business to Blink and Green Day and I still see a big similarity, sorry.

So to repeat... you can call them whatever you want... and others should be able to as well.
Pop Punk is THAT different from punk? :s it's still got punk in it. Why are you guys so agressive about it?

lavazza
03-05-2008, 11:08 AM
However, it's a common misconception that anything with three power chords played fast with distortion is punk.

b) We would get people in here who have no idea what punk is. And we're elitist cocksuckers.

Fat: Thatīs right it can also be Blues, since the common scheme is also AAAADDAAEDAA, and often they use powerchords

Not Fat: +1

Joe-Fish
03-05-2008, 11:22 AM
Fat: Thatīs right it can also be Blues, since the common scheme is also AAAADDAAEDAA, and often they use powerchords

Not Fat: +1

I've never heard 12 bar blues from a blues guitarist using power chords :p:

I would consider those bands pop-punk. Pop being a well known song that everyone usually knows and brightens your day. They just put a punk edge to it.

lavazza
03-05-2008, 11:27 AM
I've never heard 12 bar blues from a blues guitarist using power chords :p:


I learnd it during guitar lessons, just listen to Long Tall Shorty by The Kinks, thatīs exactly what I wrote down and they use Powerchords, ok I admit they play this kind of RīnīR think with 6s added in between

axeslash
03-05-2008, 11:52 AM
Come on guys, how old are we...? If Blink and Green Day aren't punk then what are they? Indie..? Three chords, distorted, medium to fast tempo... I honestly don't get why so much elitism. It's childish. Let people call whatever music they like whatever genre they want no?

So anyway my question is: why aren't blink and green day punk? I listen to them alongside Rancid, US Bombs, The Clash, Pulley, Ten Foot Pole, NoFx, Pennywise, 1208, 98 Mute, Death by Stereo... and they still feel punk to me...
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255187

*reported*

sargasm
03-05-2008, 11:57 AM
I thought everyone got over this like 5 years ago when everyone stopped caring about Blink and Green Day started playing pop.

SuperBlob
03-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Three chords, distorted, medium to fast tempo... I honestly don't get why so much elitism. It's childish.
The problem with that description is that it describes a lot of other genres as well. Are you going to say that AC/DC are punk, as that description applies to them too. Also, from the bands you listed, only The Clash really sound like punk to me (I looked up a couple of the other ones on Youtube :p:). And even people on here argue about their p0nxness, so...
Let people call whatever music they like whatever genre they want no?
Well, the main point of genres, I find, is to classify music. So if you have a load of stuff which isn't punk, but people are saying is punk, you're gonna have a lot of angry punks being like "This isn't punk, why's it in the punk section" :p:

BrianApocalypse
03-05-2008, 01:43 PM
Three chords, distorted, medium to fast tempo... I honestly don't get why so much elitism. It's childish.

You obviously don't understand the punk genre, which makes YOU childish.

So anyway my question is: why aren't blink and green day punk? I listen to them alongside Rancid, US Bombs, The Clash, Pulley, Ten Foot Pole, NoFx, Pennywise, 1208, 98 Mute, Death by Stereo... and they still feel punk to me...

Yeah, those bands are ALL well punk rock :rolleyes:

Pott
03-05-2008, 01:46 PM
You obviously don't understand the punk genre, which makes YOU childish.



Yeah, those bands are ALL well punk rock :rolleyes:

...holy crap. You're actually serious aren't you..? Having different views about styles makes someone childish..?

I for one care about the music. If the US Bombs did one of their songs and sung about practical jokes or trannies, it'd still be punk to me. To me, Blink 182 are punk. Pop punk IS punk to me as well, just... poppier. What's so hard to understand? Punk is just about doing whatever you want, like most music out there. If you want to be so elitist that only weird obscure bands are punk, or only bands that wear tartan, leather, spikes and mohawks, or whatever you believe punk is and nothing else should fit in YOUR view of it, so be it. I just don't see the point.

BrianApocalypse
03-05-2008, 01:55 PM
Nope, having an incorrect view on what punk is makes you childish. Your view on punk is the same stereotype that 99% of people believe. If you actually did a little research, you'd realise that punk is far from three distorted chords.

There's a huge difference between the toilet humour of Blink 182 and NOFX and being deliberated in parliament for treason, like Johnny Rotten. There's making jokes about smack, and then there's doing smack. While they're both silly, they're different experiences indeed.

Arguably, singing about practical jokes and derogatory comments towards transvestism are very childish indeed, and one who associates with that kind of behaviour, such as yourself, is in no position to take the moral highground.

RockThe40oz
03-05-2008, 01:57 PM
You take back all the horrible things you've said about US Bombs in this thread... you take them back right now!

Pott
03-05-2008, 02:01 PM
Nope, having an incorrect view on what punk is makes you childish. Your view on punk is the same stereotype that 99% of people believe. If you actually did a little research, you'd realise that punk is far from three distorted chords.

There's a huge difference between the toilet humour of Blink 182 and NOFX and being deliberated in parliament for treason, like Johnny Rotten. There's making jokes about smack, and then there's doing smack. While they're both silly, they're different experiences indeed.

Arguably, singing about practical jokes and derogatory comments towards transvestism are very childish indeed, and one who associates with that kind of behaviour, such as yourself, is in no position to take the moral highground.

And again, you're making a lot of assumptions about me which I have never mentioned. Way to go.
First: Who said my view of punk was LIMITED to what I mentioned? Blink 182 play three distorted chords but so do Blues bands... All I said was that to me, Blink are punk. What else would they be? Don't say Pop punk please... it's got punk in it.

Second, I never said I associated with it. I'm wondering where the hell you got that. To me music is about a message. If your message is having fun, so be it. Why would punk be limited to a certain type of lyrics? Loads of bands within one genre sing about loads of different things. What I said was, if a band you consider punk changed their lyrics to a song you know about these things you don't consider punk, would they be not punk anymore? You seem to think so based on what I understand of your post.

sargasm
03-05-2008, 02:11 PM
Argh, why do people get so uppity when they find out the music they've been listening to all this time isn't punk.

You basically have 3 options:

1) Complain about it, and try to broaden the definition of punk to include everything you listen to

2) Accept that your music isn't punk, which is just fine, and move on and continue listening to it anyway

3) Realize that you're missing out on some quality punk music, and try to find some, listen to it, and enjoy it.

SuperBlob
03-05-2008, 02:30 PM
*sigh*

Easy way to settle this.

Punk -
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nUU85sOxZ78
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WaOraUh1AyM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-hzlfdnZbWQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=djkkuBCR3Io
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hEjkPRp60bU

There is an obvious, and rather large difference in sound in those when compared to Green Day and Blink 182, no?

LeftoverJared
03-05-2008, 02:33 PM
Alot of people consider those bands to be pop punk because they all join major record labels, which, from the contract, usually takes away alot of their rights of being able to express themselves as a musician. People say they are selling out, because they are selling their love to just make their own music, for a contract. Then alot of times get forced to do things they are against or do not support, because its in the contract.

original=punk
03-05-2008, 03:56 PM
Alot of people consider those bands to be pop rock because they all join major record labels, which, from the contract, usually takes away alot of their rights of being able to express themselves as a musician. People say they are selling out, because they are selling their love to just make their own music, for a contract. Then alot of times get forced to do things they are against or do not support, because its in the contract.

Fixed =)


Don't insult my blessed Queers by lumping them in with corporate pop-rock.

Chaise Boogie
03-05-2008, 04:54 PM
This is why I hate music sometimes, and you all. In all honesty, most of us dislike Green Day and Blink 182 because they became famous, dropped a lot of there sound and views all to accomodate the stupid mans ears.

I hate famous bands. You all hate famous bands. It's what we do, I guess. Don't let them take that away from us.

RockThe40oz
03-05-2008, 05:39 PM
In all honesty, most of us dislike Green Day and Blink 182 because they became famous, dropped a lot of there sound and views all to accomodate the stupid mans ears.

No, I think it's because their music is boring and uninspiried

BostonLacrosse
03-05-2008, 05:56 PM
bands like Greenday and Blink 182 are pop-punk bands in the sense that they are pop influenced by punk

where as bands like The Queers, Mr. T Experience, The Descendents are also pop punk bands that are punk influenced by pop

crustyreed
03-05-2008, 06:04 PM
Seriously are we the only sub-forum that gets all these
''DUDES THIS IS PUNK UR WRONG'' threads, or are their people saying ''AC/DC IS BLACK METAL'' in the metal forum......

StreetLight3989
03-05-2008, 06:04 PM
bands like Greenday and Blink 182 are pop-punk bands in the sense that they are pop influenced by punk

where as bands like The Queers, Mr. T Experience, The Descendents are also pop punk bands that are punk influenced by pop
Eh, I'd definitely put Green Day's first few albums in "real" pop punk category, same thing with Blink's first two.

lolmnt
03-05-2008, 06:10 PM
^So would I

The first four Green Day albums, and three(?) Blink albums

StreetLight3989
03-05-2008, 06:14 PM
^So would I

The first four Green Day albums, and three(?) Blink albums
I've really only heard the first two Blink albums and then their later stuff.

lolmnt
03-05-2008, 06:22 PM
there's Budda, Cheshire Cat, and Dude Ranch

Chaise Boogie
03-05-2008, 06:46 PM
Blink 182 have much more punk influence then Green Day. Honestly, I would consider some of Blinks music punk with tons of pop influence. Mainly cause of their singing.

SuperBlob
03-05-2008, 06:49 PM
I can't stand Blink 182. At all.

Pott
03-05-2008, 06:50 PM
I ain't saying everyone should agree they are, or not Punk, and I don't really care.

I just wish people would stop jumping on those who do think X or Y bands are/aren't punk.

Facts are, there are no organizations that defines genres, so it's up to us. If people disagree, why not disagree in a nice and friendly fashion as opposed to an elitist, aggressive way?

DanRev
03-05-2008, 06:58 PM
Because the lords of punk sayeth so.

whyvern
03-05-2008, 07:11 PM
Blink 182 have much more punk influence then Green Day. Honestly, I would consider some of Blinks music punk with tons of pop influence. Mainly cause of their singing.


are you kidding me? GREEN DAY used to be an actual DIY Punk band. BLINK 182 just played some local shows and got signed. GREEN DAY toured the states like 5 times and played house shows and even toured Europe once before signing onto a major label. I'm not defending their decision by any means. But damn, the first two GREEN DAY albums are still considered punk rock masterpieces by most punks (I know I still love them and play them waaay to loud in my room).

RockThe40oz
03-05-2008, 07:24 PM
I ain't saying everyone should agree they are, or not Punk, and I don't really care.

I just wish people would stop jumping on those who do think X or Y bands are/aren't punk.

Facts are, there are no organizations that defines genres, so it's up to us. If people disagree, why not disagree in a nice and friendly fashion as opposed to an elitist, aggressive way?

Because we've dealt with it so many times that we're tired of bringing up the same responses over and over again

Pott
03-05-2008, 07:49 PM
Hehe that's more than fair enough. I'm a noob, sorry about that... I never noticed these kinds of arguments on any other guitar forums.

RockThe40oz
03-05-2008, 07:54 PM
Hehe that's more than fair enough. I'm a noob, sorry about that... I never noticed these kinds of arguments on any other guitar forums.

It's no big deal. It's just that this is the whole reason we have the stickied thread at the top. It's the simple fact that those bands will get a better response in the pop punk forum than here, so we try to keep them out.

Chaise Boogie
03-05-2008, 07:58 PM
are you kidding me? GREEN DAY used to be an actual DIY Punk band. BLINK 182 just played some local shows and got signed. GREEN DAY toured the states like 5 times and played house shows and even toured Europe once before signing onto a major label. I'm not defending their decision by any means. But damn, the first two GREEN DAY albums are still considered punk rock masterpieces by most punks (I know I still love them and play them waaay to loud in my room).

GREEN DAY?

waterproofpie
03-05-2008, 08:00 PM
I'm thinking of 5 words..

http://www.filmreference.com/images/sjff_01_img0269.jpg
http://www.tradenote.net/images/users/000/058/089/products_images/Mens_Formal_Trousers_In_Grey.jpg
http://www.massgeneral.org/pubaffairs/Graphics2006/071406BeFit.jpg
ME
http://www.a1ozarknativestone.com/TFwishingWell.jpg




in other news
popularity has absolutely no relation with musical genre, so just because a punk band is popular does NOT make the band pop punk. Pop punk is simply a poppier version of punk (reference: the Queers, Screeching Weasel).

Obviously, one can argue the classification of any musical group. But based on UG classification, atleast, they are not to be discussed in this forum. So we put them in other forums. Making this thread spam.


IMO, I feel it's laughable to compare either's current attitude level to that of the US Bombs or Business. ( I never thought I'd be in agreement with RockThe40oz..much love 40, but it doesn't happen much :p: )

Pott
03-05-2008, 08:14 PM
Fair enough. I didn't mean to piss anyone off and even less so to be the target of laughable insults. I'm glad I can get a couple of persons agreeing with me at least. And my question's been answered :D

The comparison wasn't serious, there was a point behind... unless I misunderstood YOUR point too?

waterproofpie
03-05-2008, 08:16 PM
Fair enough. I didn't mean to piss anyone off and even less so to be the target of laughable insults. I'm glad I can get a couple of persons agreeing with me at least. And my question's been answered :D

The comparison wasn't serious, there was a point behind... unless I misunderstood YOUR point too?


Haha, it's all good home brah.