Lets say you started a punk band...


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Punx&Skunx
03-05-2008, 07:43 PM
This is somewhat in response to the Role of Capitalism thread. Lets say you started a punk band, your punk band had a positive message that you really wanted people to hear. You get pretty popular in your area and the local record label asks to sign you, do you say yes or no. What if a major record label asks, do you say yes or no?

Where does one draw the line? On a smaller label its harder for one to focus a lot of their time on the band because one needs some form of income. While on a major record label your band will have more time to write and play your music. If you accept a major record label does your band "sell out?"

Pott
03-05-2008, 07:51 PM
If your message isn't about corporations, then why not..?
If it's against corporations and big companies it IS a bit hypocritical...

But any way to get your message to more people is a good way if you're in the band isn't it?

Then remains the issue of the company telling/not telling the band what to do...

RockThe40oz
03-05-2008, 07:51 PM
It depends on the terms of the contract, who the profits go to, the history of the company, etc.

There's a big difference between giving 90% of profits to some company with a history of destroying band creativity and giving 50% of profits to a company that lets you make the music you want to make and play the tours you want to play.

PumpkinPieces
03-05-2008, 07:51 PM
No, thats not selling out as long as you've achieved what you wanted to achieve.

Synystyer
03-05-2008, 07:52 PM
Do whatever you feel like. Really, this "selling out" stuff is ridiculous. If you guys make it all the way for a major label to sign you, go ahead. You worked hard. You deserve the money and fame.

You're not a "sell out" unless you actually change your style of music to something the major label wants you guys to do. If you continue doing what you have always been doing, it should be fine. If the only reason that the older fans hate you is due to the fact that you guys have become mainstream and that you guys have a million more fans, they can go **** themselves.

Hard work should pay off. End of story. Just never forget why you started a band. For fun, for the love of music, whatever. Stick with it.

Chaise Boogie
03-05-2008, 07:56 PM
Just don't worry about it. When a huge record company shoves a huge contract along with an amount of money following a lot of zeros, I'll be damned if I don't take it.

Punx&Skunx
03-05-2008, 07:57 PM
I agree with most of you when you say that the whole concept of "selling out" is ridiculous. But then why do bands get flamed all the time for "selling out?"

Chaise Boogie
03-05-2008, 08:01 PM
I agree with most of you when you say that the whole concept of "selling out" is ridiculous. But then why do bands get flamed all the time for "selling out?"

They don't like a bunch of blind minded kids liking their bands just because it's popular.

An example is RBF. Everyone in my town likes posthardcoredoodoocore, yet it seems each one of them likes RBF. RBF is nothing like that screaming stuff. They just like it cause it's popular, but not too popular to where they can't score cool points for liking an unknown band.

Tom Morelllo
03-05-2008, 08:49 PM
w/e

RizzoWashburn
03-05-2008, 09:22 PM
lol @ the non punk forum regulars

Iluvpowerchords
03-05-2008, 10:06 PM
There is a term that applies to a person that rejects loads of money when it is offered to him/her.

That term is Masochist.

'Course bands that spit loads of venom at corporations are logically not going to be signed by them anyway so the question is rather silly.

StreetLight3989
03-05-2008, 10:08 PM
lol @ the non punk forum regulars
They're always worth a laugh, lol. I would say that as long as your message isn't anit-corporation and the corporation has good ethics definitely sign major. I don't know if I would though. Just don't let them change your sound or message.

BrianApocalypse
03-05-2008, 11:04 PM
Never sign to anyone else's label, major, DIY or otherwise.

Unless you run the label yourself, you dissolve your message and the music is no longer an accurate portrayal of your group.

Which is pretty much the whole point of making music.

BrianApocalypse
03-05-2008, 11:09 PM
Just don't worry about it. When a huge record company shoves a huge contract along with an amount of money following a lot of zeros, I'll be damned if I don't take it.

What most people don't realise is that an advance from a record company is only a loan, hence the word "advance". $100,000 might seem like a lot of money, but it's nothing when you consider that it's 5 people or more's salary for the next 2-3 years.

Plus, you have to make every penny of that back to start earning royalties, and you have to finance your first album with that.

mike2
03-06-2008, 12:54 AM
labels are stupid, oblsolete, and you make no money anyways. so why the **** do it?

BrianApocalypse
03-06-2008, 01:08 AM
Yeah, it's better to put your own stuff, that way you get Ģ5 per unit, as opposed to Ģ0.04 per unit.

Music is going to go grass roots soon anyways.

sargasm
03-06-2008, 01:16 AM
No. I have no problem with people signing to majors, but it's not for me.

whyvern
03-06-2008, 01:34 AM
I would never be on a major label, and I would never sign a contract, if I can't trust my friend to put out my record, I don't want it to be put out. I'm never gonna be in a band that will sell a million copies.

My housemate's band is on a semimajor record label (Alive! Records) and they had to have a contract, I don't think they got screwed over, it's just weird to hear them talk so much about business. I'd never want that to get in the way of my band. They're still my best friends and still one of my favorite bands, it's just weird that you can buy their CD at FYE now.

anti
03-06-2008, 01:49 AM
You put a multi-million dollar contract in front of me, I would take it.
You're a sell out if your music is played on commercials. :D

JesusOfSbrbia
03-06-2008, 02:07 AM
^ Well then the Ramones and the Stooges are sellouts, among many others.

This is a kinda complicated issue, but I usually have no problem with bands that go major, as long as they don't contradict their message or change their sound to be more commercially acceptable.

Personally, I would never go major, because with my insecurities and whatnot, fame would make me end up just like Kurt Cobain.

anti
03-06-2008, 02:10 AM
I think both bands were aware that they sold out a long time ago, they sold out along with their youth. They have to make money.

JesusOfSbrbia
03-06-2008, 02:17 AM
^ and making money off music is not a crime, as long as the music is good :cheers:

yeahyeah
03-06-2008, 02:30 AM
If I was asked to sign with a major label I'd consider if:

* I had complete freedom. If I wanted to release an album with nothing but the sound of monkeys having sex then they would have to let me.
* I owned my music/royalties
* The label severed all ties with the RIAA
* There was no minimum number of albums to be released on the label
* I have the option to opt out of the contract at any time with no penalty
* The label bought a studio for me that I can keep after I ditch the label.


Soooooooooo
I guess that means that I won't be signing to a major label. :p: Although I can see that changing if I ever have a family...

recklessnick
03-06-2008, 03:16 AM
it depends.
alot of people might say yes, but those the people who diss on anti-flag, bad religion, rancid, rise against, etc. for being on a major label and because every single person knows them.
as long as you dont sell your beliefs and what you stand for, then its not selling out. unless you are like this whole diy-for-life anti-mass media anti-capitalism person and one day you sign to sony records, then you're a sellout

recklessnick
03-06-2008, 03:32 AM
it depends.
alot of people might say yes, but those the people who diss on anti-flag, bad religion, rancid, rise against, etc. for being on a major label and because every single person knows them.
as long as you dont sell your beliefs and what you stand for, then its not selling out. unless you are like this whole diy-for-life anti-mass media anti-capitalism person and one day you sign to sony records, then you're a sellout

BrianApocalypse
03-06-2008, 04:36 AM
About 85% of signed acts fail, and can't make any more music until their contract expires, so be careful kids...

lavazza
03-06-2008, 12:52 PM
Itīs just the company mustnīt tell me what music I have to make, what texts I have to choose and how to mix it, and thatīs the problem with major labels I think they influence too much!

Example: Toxoplasma, a German Punk band which was one of the first big punk bands in Germany during the 80s whcih toured with the Dead Kennedys and the Bad Brains had the offer (by Virgin Records) to sign a contract of about 500.000 DM (~250.000€), which was much more in those than it is nowadays, but with the condition that they change their appearance a bit.
They didnīt do that, and thatīs something I respect.

dannay
03-06-2008, 01:18 PM
say yes, then fill your album with obsenities that they will hate, encourage stage rushing, damage venues, cause riots, and generally bring down the name of the label.

mike2
03-06-2008, 03:35 PM
^ Well then the Ramones and the Stooges are sellouts, among many others.

This is a kinda complicated issue, but I usually have no problem with bands that go major, as long as they don't contradict their message or change their sound to be more commercially acceptable.

Personally, I would never go major, because with my insecurities and whatnot, fame would make me end up just like Kurt Cobain.

the thing with punk is that it wasn't against major labels at first, until bands like crass started crtizisizing original punk artists like the clash signing to CBS and making punk a novelty. and jello detested major labels, if i remember right he threw an ash tray at an A&R of a record label.

If you go to a label, fine, but major labels are corporate sluts, and the indie ones are sometimes even worse, ones like hellcat and **** that are almost a major label.

so signing period is pointless, especially since you can record music as good as a studio, and now we have the internet to spread your message/music.

hooligan07
03-06-2008, 03:37 PM
i'd sign to hellcat

mike2
03-06-2008, 03:37 PM
i'd sign to hellcat

**** that. i'd rather sign to RCA than say my boss is Tim Armstrong.

hooligan07
03-06-2008, 03:53 PM
**** that. i'd rather sign to RCA than say my boss is Tim Armstrong.
i'd just chill with matt

Gabuydachk
03-06-2008, 04:17 PM
i wouldn't sign to a major.

StreetLight3989
03-06-2008, 04:18 PM
Seriously though, signing to a label makes making music a business. Music shouldn't be a business, but an art.

DanRev
03-06-2008, 04:45 PM
In my experience, alot of independents are just as bad if not worse, and are often owned by the rich sons and daughters of lawyers and politicians from places like Hertfordshire and the home counties.

Especially if they're hardcore label.

Gabuydachk
03-06-2008, 05:12 PM
In my experience, alot of independents are just as bad if not worse, and are often owned by the rich sons and daughters of lawyers and politicians from places like Hertfordshire and the home counties.

Especially if they're hardcore label.
hardcore labels around here in NJ are terrible. they wait for every band to put in their money in and then cancel shows. i've heard the deals with records are even worse.

mike2
03-06-2008, 07:44 PM
i'd just chill with matt

whatever....


you just make matt and tim look like idols, and in reality they are sub-par musicians, with a crappy label, have crappy taste in music, and matt maybe above average at bass but tries too hard, and makes it sound tastless...

they aren't punks, they are businessmen...

douche.

BlaiseTheSlayer
03-06-2008, 07:52 PM
It's not selling out if you don't compromise anything. Changing your sound for a major is selling out.

crustyreed
03-06-2008, 08:09 PM
i just remembered something i found hilarious.
So a person from *insert big label here* calls the 4 skins and says he would like to have them join their label. Under one condition, they change their names to 'Skins 4.'
they laugh him off the phone.
true story

RockThe40oz
03-06-2008, 08:17 PM
4 Skins is a great band name... nobody quite gets it at first... "Oh Ok.. they're skinheads, and there are 4 of them..." *wait for it* "wait... 4.. skins.. foreskins... ohhhhh... gross"

hooligan07
03-06-2008, 09:04 PM
whatever....


you just make matt and tim look like idols, and in reality they are sub-par musicians, with a crappy label, have crappy taste in music, and matt maybe above average at bass but tries too hard, and makes it sound tastless...

they aren't punks, they are businessmen...

douche.
i am no douche,matt or tim fanboy and like almost no band on their label.
matt and tim have written some of the best lyrics in punk music(along with not so great lyrics)and matt is a great musician.
i wanna see you add some ''taste'' and see how the **** it translates musically
how the hell is making a living doing what you love so wrong?
if you stay true to your love and stay honest then there is nothing wrong with having a band and a label that opens up opportunities for other artist that may otherwise have a hard time reaching the people.
you can be a punk musician and make a living off the scene if you stay true.
in conclusion, i am no douche

Mav-16
03-07-2008, 02:09 AM
i am no douche,matt or tim fanboy and like almost no band on their label.
matt and tim have written some of the best lyrics in punk music(along with not so great lyrics)and matt is a great musician.
i wanna see you add some ''taste'' and see how the **** it translates musically
how the hell is making a living doing what you love so wrong?
if you stay true to your love and stay honest then there is nothing wrong with having a band and a label that opens up opportunities for other artist that may otherwise have a hard time reaching the people.
you can be a punk musician and make a living off the scene if you stay true.
in conclusion, i am no douche

hmm......... I must say, Rancid is hella dumb and are like the "poster boys" for punk n all that. But Rancid is good dudes... they are good at what they do. Like i never listen to them because I used to love them and got totally over them and all that. but they are good tho. Lars Fredirekson has a better voice tho... Tim Armstrong sounds like such a douche...

recklessnick
03-07-2008, 02:43 AM
rancid are punks. rancid are musicians. rancid as businessmen.

and matt freeman is the most creative and fastest bassplayer in the punk rock genre unless you can think of someone else to prove me wrong

recklessnick
03-07-2008, 02:46 AM
Seriously though, signing to a label makes making music a business. Music shouldn't be a business, but an art.

signing to a label doesnt mean making music isnt making music anymore but selling goods. music is still music, label or no label, money or no money. and it is still art. people do sell great pieces of artwork for thousands.
i think its awesome to make a living out of making music instead of ordinary day jobs, dont you? doing what you love and having food on the table, isnt that great?
whatever it is, im sure most punk bands are music first, and if someone offered them money for the music they are playing and they took it. it doesnt make any difference

hooligan07
03-07-2008, 03:23 AM
hmm......... I must say, Rancid is hella dumb and are like the "poster boys" for punk n all that. But Rancid is good dudes... they are good at what they do. Like i never listen to them because I used to love them and got totally over them and all that. but they are good tho. Lars Fredirekson has a better voice tho... Tim Armstrong sounds like such a douche...
while rancid are by no means rocket scientist punks,they are not ''hella dumb''


i can listen to songs like whirlwind or rejected,unwritten rules or midnight and completely relate and be inspired by the words the douche uses to talk about how they grew up and where they come from.
their lyrics may not be the most intelectual but they are inspiring in their own somewhat simplistic way
im not sure i really made much sense but im really tired so maybe i can elaborate tomorrow

Berlioz97
03-07-2008, 03:27 AM
not enough people give rancid credit for their lyrics.
some are pretty intelligent. listen to ivory coast, life won't wait, arrested in shanghai, lady liberty, junkie man.....the list can go on.
a lot of their **** is deeper than you may think.

hooligan07
03-07-2008, 03:29 AM
and reckless and berlioz i completely agree with your posts

Berlioz97
03-07-2008, 03:36 AM
yeah Rancid are probably better all around than 95% of all punk groups out there....they may not be everybody's favorite, but really listen to them, they're pretty ****ing good all around as musicians.

mike2
03-07-2008, 04:40 AM
i am no douche,matt or tim fanboy and like almost no band on their label.
matt and tim have written some of the best lyrics in punk music(along with not so great lyrics)and matt is a great musician.
i wanna see you add some ''taste'' and see how the **** it translates musically
how the hell is making a living doing what you love so wrong?
if you stay true to your love and stay honest then there is nothing wrong with having a band and a label that opens up opportunities for other artist that may otherwise have a hard time reaching the people.
you can be a punk musician and make a living off the scene if you stay true.
in conclusion, i am no douche

you are a douche!

And i detest rancid, they are douches, they are not honest, they are buisnessmen, like what they did to Leftover Crack...so ****ing punk...and what are they preaching? most of their lyrics pertain to them taking trains and buses and listening to ghetto blasters....it's stupid...you act like they are some voice of a generation, when it is just tim armstrong's retarded faux-Joe strummer british accent with some subpar music behind it.

Mav-16
03-07-2008, 04:57 AM
you are a douche!

And i detest rancid, they are douches, they are not honest, they are buisnessmen, like what they did to Leftover Crack...so ****ing punk...and what are they preaching? most of their lyrics pertain to them taking trains and buses and listening to ghetto blasters....it's stupid...you act like they are some voice of a generation, when it is just tim armstrong's retarded faux-Joe strummer british accent with some subpar music behind it.
yeah that's what I really don't like about Rancid...


"yeah dude, were from the ghetto.... the streets... maaan... were the sound of the streets"


and you're hella RICH!

BrianApocalypse
03-07-2008, 06:29 AM
yeah Rancid are probably better all around than 95% of all punk groups out there....they may not be everybody's favorite, but really listen to them, they're pretty ****ing good all around as musicians.

As much as I dislike them, this statement is correct.

Rancid are one of the very best punk groups around, and Tim and Lars are good, proficient songwriters.

If other punk bands weren't so terrible, Rancid wouldn't look so good.

Having said that, their business side is pretty terrible.

This is why bands should record and release their own material. Not only will the music remain true to your sound, but there would be no buildup of "corporate" punk labels and the sound formula that everyone on the label toes.

lavazza
03-07-2008, 09:58 AM
Rancid are one of the very best punk groups around, and Tim and Lars are good, proficient songwriters.


Armstrong wrote some songs for Pink and Operation Ivy splitted because they didnīt want to become too capitalist / mainstream.....this sounds a bit bizarre

i just remembered something i found hilarious.
So a person from *insert big label here* calls the 4 skins and says he would like to have them join their label. Under one condition, they change their names to 'Skins 4.'
they laugh him off the phone.
true story

Please donīt mention them again.......they are related to Skrewdriver, not just through the music

hooligan07
03-07-2008, 10:25 AM
you are a douche!

And i detest rancid, they are douches, they are not honest, they are buisnessmen, like what they did to Leftover Crack...so ****ing punk...and what are they preaching? most of their lyrics pertain to them taking trains and buses and listening to ghetto blasters....it's stupid...you act like they are some voice of a generation, when it is just tim armstrong's retarded faux-Joe strummer british accent with some subpar music behind it.
your logic is flawed and you fail.
leftover crack ****ing blows and that situation was a pretty sketchy one i dont wanna get into.
i wanna hear you write better lyrics than tim and add some taste to your music.
what the **** were you talking about anyway you elitist douche?

ss311
03-07-2008, 10:47 AM
**** that. i'd rather sign to RCA than say my boss is Tim Armstrong.


:haha Well said.

FuzzyBear
03-07-2008, 11:55 AM
anyone who says they would never sign to a label clearly has never worked a ****ty job day in day out

whyvern
03-07-2008, 12:21 PM
^ I have and I still wouldn't want to compromise my art.

lavazza
03-07-2008, 12:35 PM
^ I have and I still wouldn't want to compromise my art.

+1
We once had the chance to become a music school band that would have included being able to practice with a PA and record stuff and maybe being able to play more concerts, but we said no because we wanted to be a free band, be your own boss.

anyone who says they would never sign to a label clearly has never worked a ****ty job day in day out

This is the advantage of being young.......you can pretend never to sign major without lying......... :p:

axeslash
03-07-2008, 01:07 PM
your logic is flawed and you fail.
leftover crack ****ing blows and that situation was a pretty sketchy one i dont wanna get into.
i wanna hear you write better lyrics than tim and add some taste to your music.
what the **** were you talking about anyway you elitist douche?
He probably does write better music than Tim. I write better music than Tim. Every person here who writes music writes better music than Tim. Brian does better, Lavazza does better, werty makes the best lyrics, whyvern does better, for ****'s sake everyone here does better.

Well, since you obviously can't read, I'll spell out what he was saying.

Tim Armstrong sucks and so does the rest of Rancid. They keep playing that "poor street punk" card even though they are all rich corporate puppets.
anyone who says they would never sign to a label clearly has never worked a ****ty job day in day out
Nah, you're just a sell outz.

Punx&Skunx
03-07-2008, 01:32 PM
Tim Armstrong sucks and so does the rest of Rancid. They keep playing that "poor street punk" card even though they are all rich corporate puppets.

I almost agree with that statement, but i do think you all are overlooking Matt Freeman. Not only has he played for Op Ivy and Rancid but he's also worked with MDC (played bass on one of their tours, Basic Radio, Downfall, Shaken 69, Devil's Brigade, and Social Distortion. He may be a "corporate puppet" in your eyes but i dont think anyone can argue that he isn't a good bassist. The rest of Rancid, not so good...

hooligan07
03-07-2008, 03:39 PM
He probably does write better music than Tim. I write better music than Tim. Every person here who writes music writes better music than Tim. Brian does better, Lavazza does better, werty makes the best lyrics, whyvern does better, for ****'s sake everyone here does better.

Well, since you obviously can't read, I'll spell out what he was saying.

Tim Armstrong sucks and so does the rest of Rancid. They keep playing that "poor street punk" card even though they are all rich corporate puppets.

Nah, you're just a sell outz.
once again i dont see how your arguement has any basis on fact

im not saying rancid is poor or that they are not business men i am saying you can be a respectable artist while making money,if you've atayed true to your original reasons for being in the scene
i never once said rancid did not have crap material,all i said is that they have some ****ing awesome material as well

werty22
03-07-2008, 06:06 PM
He probably does write better music than Tim. I write better music than Tim. Every person here who writes music writes better music than Tim. Brian does better, Lavazza does better, werty makes the best lyrics, whyvern does better, for ****'s sake everyone here does better.

Well, since you obviously can't read, I'll spell out what he was saying.

Tim Armstrong sucks and so does the rest of Rancid. They keep playing that "poor street punk" card even though they are all rich corporate puppets.

Nah, you're just a sell outz.
At first I didn't know what you meant when you said I wrote the best lyrics... but then I got it. lol.

I used to like Rancid a lot, but now they just seem like another average Epitaph band. They have some good songs on their 3rd and 4th album and a couple on the most recent album, but overall, they're not that great, IMO. But I do think they get picked on too much in this forum just because they're popular.

hooligan07
03-07-2008, 08:49 PM
As much as I dislike them, this statement is correct.

Rancid are one of the very best punk groups around, and Tim and Lars are good, proficient songwriters.

If other punk bands weren't so terrible, Rancid wouldn't look so good.

Having said that, their business side is pretty terrible.

This is why bands should record and release their own material. Not only will the music remain true to your sound, but there would be no buildup of "corporate" punk labels and the sound formula that everyone on the label toes.


i notice no one attacked your opinion of rancid,that is pretty similair to what i said.

pretty funny ****

Fuzzbox91
03-07-2008, 10:16 PM
if i started a punk band it would be more about the music than the message and signing on to a huge record label would mean theres a good chance they would try to water down the music so the answer is no. Same goes for the message, theyd try to water down that too. id rather have a few people hear the uncencored full version of what i want to play/say than millions hear the watered down version.

IlikeTheSKA
03-07-2008, 10:35 PM
Selling out is my goal in life.

nedhunter-K
03-08-2008, 07:26 AM
This is a kinda complicated issue, but I usually have no problem with bands that go major, as long as they don't contradict their message or change their sound to be more commercially acceptable.


reminds me of green day