punkvoter?


PDA

View Full Version : punkvoter?


Berlioz97
03-06-2008, 06:31 AM
what are your thoughts on them?
i got into it with the guy who runs their myspace and shut him up when i told him his whole site was run by the Democrats.......and that his encouraging voters to write in mickey mouse was a contradiction of what his site's supposed "mission" was to inform youth voters and have the punk subculture vote as a bloc.....
which failed because not all punks are Democrats like Fat Mike hoped they were....

but that's just my opinion....
what does everyone else think of that site?

btw conservativepunk.com sucks.....its really lame....pro status quo punk rock, funny funny....

whyvern
03-06-2008, 09:39 AM
Hey Garth! Long time no talk dude.

I'm not a fan of punkvoter or voting at all. Sure I voted for Obama, but do I think it will really change anything? Not really. I just wanted to piss off all the racists and tell them "I voted for ****** to do a white man's job"

Punk_Rape92
03-06-2008, 09:53 AM
Meh i don't like how a lot of bands jump on the pollitical band wagon. Im dont know much about politics so i stay away from the subject.

sargasm
03-06-2008, 11:53 AM
The vote changes nothing.

I voted NDP even though I knew it wouldn't make a difference because I refuse to vote liberal out of principal. They're just Conservatives pretending to be socialists and they won't change anything.

That's Canadian politics, btw.

But yeah, voting is depressing and pointless but I do it anyway. It's the best we have so far, and it's not like it's hard.

FuzzyBear
03-06-2008, 12:01 PM
its worth voting in the UK just to stop the BNP getting seats

sargasm
03-06-2008, 12:10 PM
80% of this thread is mad oldschool

Just figured I'd point that out.

BrianApocalypse
03-06-2008, 12:15 PM
its worth voting in the UK just to stop the BNP getting seats

It's too late... the BNP took my baby away :(

lavazza
03-06-2008, 12:59 PM
The vote changes nothing.

I voted NDP even though I knew it wouldn't make a difference because I refuse to vote liberal out of principal. They're just Conservatives pretending to be socialists and they won't change anything.

That's Canadian politics, btw.

But yeah, voting is depressing and pointless but I do it anyway. It's the best we have so far, and it's not like it's hard.

Puh....I first thought it was "NPD" thatīs ther German Nazi Party

Iluvpowerchords
03-06-2008, 01:07 PM
I'm voting Nader.

He isn't blatantly serving a corporate master and it pisses off the Democrats.

I win either way.

sargasm
03-06-2008, 01:12 PM
Puh....I first thought it was "NPD" thatīs ther German Nazi Party

Nah, they're the hippie commie socialist party that will never win.

RockThe40oz
03-06-2008, 04:11 PM
The PunkVoter crowd are a bunch of close-minded pricks..

Berlioz97
03-06-2008, 05:33 PM
i voted for Ron Paul and punkvoter told me not to vote for him because he opposes "publicly funded abortion and all that good rot" funny how one issue can turn an entire voting bloc off to a candidate.....

RockThe40oz
03-06-2008, 05:51 PM
i voted for Ron Paul and punkvoter told me not to vote for him because he opposes "publicly funded abortion and all that good rot" funny how one issue can turn an entire voting bloc off to a candidate.....

It's not even an issue that turns them off.. it's the party... They basically say that if you're not democrat, you're not punk. Then they try to cover it up and say "well, we know democrats aren't great, but they're better than racist redneck republican gay basher bible thumpers!"

fuck PunkVoter

Berlioz97
03-06-2008, 05:56 PM
seriously. i registered Republican despite my longstanding prejudices towards them to vote for Ron Paul (here we have to register Rep. to vote in their primary)

Democrats are even less punk than the GOP if you look at it. Huge government? I mean the GOP is a crock of **** too, but really....the Democrats have spent that last 11 months trying to prevent a black man from being their nominee, how racist is that? Obama is a good man, he should have won a long time ago....I don't agree with him on everything, but seriously....

I've come to realise that the punk subculture has been hijacked and turned into the youth wing of the democratic party. what every happened to "anarchy"?

lolmnt
03-06-2008, 05:59 PM
I'm voting Nader.

He isn't blatantly serving a corporate master and it pisses off the Democrats.

I win either way.If Hillary wins, I'm considering voting for him

SuperBlob
03-06-2008, 06:02 PM
I'm voting Captain Sensible. Hell yeah.

You don't have any punks in political places over there do you? DO YOU?! :p:

whyvern
03-06-2008, 06:02 PM
seriously. i registered Republican despite my longstanding prejudices towards them to vote for Ron Paul (here we have to register Rep. to vote in their primary)

Democrats are even less punk than the GOP if you look at it. Huge government? I mean the GOP is a crock of **** too, but really....the Democrats have spent that last 11 months trying to prevent a black man from being their nominee, how racist is that? Obama is a good man, he should have won a long time ago....I don't agree with him on everything, but seriously....

I've come to realise that the punk subculture has been hijacked and turned into the youth wing of the democratic party. what every happened to "anarchy"?


Ron Paul is such a terrible choice dude. He's pro-corporate and all about de-regulating the economy and letting the evils of capitalism take their course. Most punks still believe in anarchy and Ron Paul is the furthest thing from it. We're still out there and still fighting. Please don't give yer vote to that anti-woman, pro-family (read, pro-christian), pro-corporation and anti-poor dude. He's not gonna help anything. But he can't even get elected dude, the neocons are not gonna be about it at all and they're the ones in control (the run the WTO, World Bank and set the agendas for those organizations). Conservatism never does anything good, unless you're a millionaire (like Ron Paul).

original=punk
03-06-2008, 06:07 PM
Nah, they're the hippie commie socialist party that will never win.


They have a better chance of winning than the Green party.

And if I had to vote, in the previous Ontario election, I would have voted for the Liberal party, Mr Mcguintey knows my needs. First impressions are important and left one on me. Believes in piblic schools. **** the catholic school system.

What is this punkvoter thing?

DanRev
03-06-2008, 06:31 PM
Im voting for George bush lol

crustyreed
03-06-2008, 06:37 PM
Im voting for George bush lol

seriously if i had a band together now.
on our tshirts we would of picture of george and under it write ''LOVE'' itd be so sarcastically awesome.

sargasm
03-06-2008, 07:00 PM
They have a better chance of winning than the Green party.

And if I had to vote, in the previous Ontario election, I would have voted for the Liberal party, Mr Mcguintey knows my needs. First impressions are important and left one on me. Believes in piblic schools. **** the catholic school system.

What is this punkvoter thing?

Punkvoter is something I haven't heard about in years. It was a big thing when NOFX were relevant and some people still liked bush.

My friend who lives in ottawa was telling me that public vs. private schools was the big issue for the election in Ontario. I think that's awesome. Alberta is so messed up that there's tons of serious issues, and getting rid of the theocratic indoctrination process that is the catholic school system isn't even on the agenda. We have to fix everything else first. Ontario's good enough that you can worry about stuff like that.

Abolishing the catholic school system, and private schools in general would be an awesome step forward.

original=punk
03-06-2008, 07:12 PM
Punkvoter is something I haven't heard about in years. It was a big thing when NOFX were relevant and some people still liked bush.

My friend who lives in ottawa was telling me that public vs. private schools was the big issue for the election in Ontario. I think that's awesome. Alberta is so messed up that there's tons of serious issues, and getting rid of the theocratic indoctrination process that is the catholic school system isn't even on the agenda. We have to fix everything else first. Ontario's good enough that you can worry about stuff like that.

Abolishing the catholic school system, and private schools in general would be an awesome step forward.

Well, abolishing private religious schools isn't the problem. It's getting rid of the governent funding of catholic schools. Ontario is the only province left that still doesn't realize segregation is bad.

And so is this punkvoter thing like an uber democrat Fat mike thing?

Joe-Fish
03-06-2008, 07:14 PM
I've never heard of this punkvoter thing. To be honest I don't think I know enough about the candidates to make a knowledgeable choice. If I did have a choice though, it would be Barack Obama.

sargasm
03-06-2008, 07:25 PM
Well, abolishing private religious schools isn't the problem. It's getting rid of the governent funding of catholic schools. Ontario is the only province left that still doesn't realize segregation is bad.

And so is this punkvoter thing like an uber democrat Fat mike thing?

Really? I didn't realize that catholic schools didn't have public funding here. That's silly.

I honestly would like to have the entire idea of private schools done away with altogether, but I guess some parents will never want their money loving little kids mingling with godless heretics like me. Tsk.

And yeah, that's pretty much what punkvoter is.

mike2
03-06-2008, 07:28 PM
in america private schools don't get funding either...

original=punk
03-06-2008, 07:28 PM
Really? I didn't realize that catholic schools didn't have public funding here. That's silly.

I honestly would like to have the entire idea of private schools done away with altogether, but I guess some parents will never want their money loving little kids mingling with godless heretics like me. Tsk.

And yeah, that's pretty much what punkvoter is.

Yeah it's strange. Should be done away with altogether. I think people should decide to follow a religion by studying on their own time. If they don't wanna follow someone else's rules, they can go on personal faith.

werty22
03-06-2008, 08:33 PM
in america private schools don't get funding either...
It seems like funding them would make them not private. Isn't that part of the definition of a private school?

recklessnick
03-07-2008, 02:42 AM
im not american. but if i were and if punkvoter was against a conservative government then yeah i would support it

sargasm
03-07-2008, 02:52 AM
im not american. but if i were and if punkvoter was against a conservative government then yeah i would support it

It's against the republican party, which is inherently conservative, but also very much in favor of the democratic party which isn't much better.

Of course, it's a step up from being pro-republican, but not a huge step.

Berlioz97
03-07-2008, 03:16 AM
Ron Paul is such a terrible choice dude. He's pro-corporate and all about de-regulating the economy and letting the evils of capitalism take their course. Most punks still believe in anarchy and Ron Paul is the furthest thing from it. We're still out there and still fighting. Please don't give yer vote to that anti-woman, pro-family (read, pro-christian), pro-corporation and anti-poor dude. He's not gonna help anything. But he can't even get elected dude, the neocons are not gonna be about it at all and they're the ones in control (the run the WTO, World Bank and set the agendas for those organizations). Conservatism never does anything good, unless you're a millionaire (like Ron Paul).

1. I am pro life (abortion has many many alternatives which are never discussed by Dems. for example - CONDOMS! THE PILL! THE MORNING AFTER PILL! Adoption? Federally funding legal abortions is simply an expirement in eugenics under the guise of personal choice, the reduction of the poor and minority populations...)
2. I am pro religious freedom (believe in whatever religion you want as long as you do not interfere with my right to do the same)
3. I am pro 2nd amendment (no guns, means no way to defend yourself against home invaders, etc. Criminals will always have guns, thats why they are criminals, what will we have? The police?)
4. Ron Paul is the candidate closest to "anarchy" we will ever see. He supports the dismantling of the Federal Government to a fraction of its current size. Although I do not agree 100% with Conservatism, you have to see that the over-regulation of the business sector simply leads to those costs being passed on to the consumer and a reduction in the wages of those who work for those businesses...that is, YOU AND ME!

I did my research before I voted for him. Believe me, I had my heart set on Obama or even remotely Clinton....(that changed quickly...) at first. But I looked Ron Paul up and his theories on things are much more sound than people give him credit for.
Fiscal conservatism is the tough thing to do. And believe me it was tough for me to even consider voting for a Republican....but it just...made sense.
I'm all for a government providing universal health care, but that's not a priority to me since I am low income and on medicaid anyway...

FuzzyBear
03-07-2008, 05:25 AM
1. I am pro life (abortion has many many alternatives which are never discussed by Dems. for example - CONDOMS! THE PILL! THE MORNING AFTER PILL! Adoption? Federally funding legal abortions is simply an expirement in eugenics under the guise of personal choice, the reduction of the poor and minority populations...)



condom, the pill & the morning afterpill are all contraceptives, not alternatives for abortion, by the time your pregnant its abit late for any of them to help

Joe-Fish
03-07-2008, 07:51 AM
I guess I'm anything but punx when it comes to stuff to stuff like this.

I'm Pro-Choice but I'd never want my girlfriend to get an abortion nor would I ever want someone else to but it's their choice. It's a personal thing, not religious at all.

I also believe our 2nd amendment rights should stay. There's tons of hunters in town, and if not for them, the deer population would grow WAY too big and most of the hunters will eat the whole animal and give different parts to friends and such. I just think guns should be more regulated. Having to go through a course to make sure you're good with guns and all that.

lavazza
03-07-2008, 10:21 AM
3. I am pro 2nd amendment (no guns, means no way to defend yourself against home invaders, etc. Criminals will always have guns, thats why they are criminals, what will we have? The police?)


You cannot see me as the most reliable person for the American society and the market for arms, but in Germany not every household has itīs own gun cabinet and we still can sleep quietly. The argument of being able to defend yourself is stupid, really, or are there always gangs who try to invade your house? If yes it rather underlines your status as a banana republic, then the UN should send troops to Fresno and not to Congo.
Every year there are thousands of people shot down in the USA, but just really few in countries like France or Germany or Canada (this argument is from Michael Moore, so itīs not so reliable, but it has a true core).
Your right to carry a gun with you is (from the outside) a really big problem and you should do everything to get it prohibited!

And the argument that the population of animals woudl explode is stupid too, because I donīt know any country in the whole world which has problems with getting some animals away.

RockThe40oz
03-07-2008, 12:14 PM
Gun Debate.. my $0.02

I agree.. if guns were completely banned, we'd have less violence.

Unfortunately, what most outsiders don't realize... We have entirely too many people in this country. We have entirely too many guns in this country. Trying to get back all of those guns would be a complete fiasco and would never work. We'd end up with all the law-abiding citizens turning in their guns while all the criminals and thugs kept their guns secret. It's just not feasible in any sense.

That being said, there needs to be stricter background checks and crack down on mental health issues... the negligence of documented mental health issues is what let some nutjob piece of shit kill 32 people at my school with guns he legally purchased despite noted mental issues.

axeslash
03-07-2008, 12:17 PM
It's against the republican party, which is inherently conservative, but also very much in favor of the democratic party which isn't much better.

Of course, it's a step up from being pro-republican, but not a huge step.
There really isn't any difference between the Republican and Democrat parties. They're both going to lie, they're both in it for their own interests, and they are all rich mother****ers who don't care about the middle class.

I'm gonna vote Nader out of principle.

Iluvpowerchords
03-07-2008, 12:18 PM
I love the second amendment.

Tons of irrational paranoid assholes who are convinced the world is out to get them and someone is going to enter their house just end up killing themselves or a family member because of their stupidity.

And you know what, if they want to risk that, I'm not gonna complain. They're just exercising their rights. I'm not opposed to that freedom. Really. I like to ride motorcycles without helmets and speed when I'm driving.

But for ****s sake these paranoid people don't seem to realize that any house burglar worth his salt doesn't break into a house when there are people in it.

That's just bad thievery.

sargasm
03-07-2008, 12:20 PM
I'm a fan of the second amendment

http://www.demopolislive.com/gallery/images/1/1_the_right_to_bear_arms.jpg

RockThe40oz
03-07-2008, 12:22 PM
The right to bear arms!? That's just ridiculous... only rich white men can afford a surgical procedure like that.

lavazza
03-07-2008, 12:25 PM
Gun Debate.. my $0.02

I agree.. if guns were completely banned, we'd have less violence.

Unfortunately, what most outsiders don't realize... We have entirely too many people in this country. We have entirely too many guns in this country. Trying to get back all of those guns would be a complete fiasco and would never work. We'd end up with all the law-abiding citizens turning in their guns while all the criminals and thugs kept their guns secret. It's just not feasible in any sense.


What about stopping to sell weapons?

RockThe40oz
03-07-2008, 12:26 PM
What about stopping to sell weapons?

You'd never stop gun shows. Hell, they can't even get gun shows to do sufficient background checks or stick with the law prohibiting the sale of handguns to people under the age of 21.

whyvern
03-07-2008, 12:30 PM
4. Ron Paul is the candidate closest to "anarchy" we will ever see. He supports the dismantling of the Federal Government to a fraction of its current size. Although I do not agree 100% with Conservatism, you have to see that the over-regulation of the business sector simply leads to those costs being passed on to the consumer and a reduction in the wages of those who work for those businesses...that is, YOU AND ME!

I did my research before I voted for him. Believe me, I had my heart set on Obama or even remotely Clinton....(that changed quickly...) at first. But I looked Ron Paul up and his theories on things are much more sound than people give him credit for.
Fiscal conservatism is the tough thing to do. And believe me it was tough for me to even consider voting for a Republican....but it just...made sense.
I'm all for a government providing universal health care, but that's not a priority to me since I am low income and on medicaid anyway...


Ron Paul has nothing to do with anarchism. He would never let factories turn into syndicates or let people collectivize their communities because he would deregulate the economy so much that the rich would have even more control than they allready did. I'm sure you've looked up Ron Paul but I dunno how much Krotorpkin, Goldman or Baukunin you've read.

I don't have hope for democrats but I really just can't support someone who would hand our lives over to corporations that quickly.

He's not going to win anyways, he's not marketable in this campaign, people don't want an old white guy anymore... we'll have a black man or white woman... they might not be the best but hey this country voted for Bush 2 times in a row do you really think they care?

lavazza
03-07-2008, 12:38 PM
You'd never stop gun shows. Hell, they can't even get gun shows to do sufficient background checks or stick with the law prohibiting the sale of handguns to people under the age of 21.

I think I cannot follow you what this has to do with stopping to sell guns......

RockThe40oz
03-07-2008, 01:01 PM
I think I cannot follow you what this has to do with stopping to sell guns......

Because guns are sold at gun shows, and aren't really restricted by the same laws as an actual gun store is.

Plus, it'd be like prohibition... arms dealers would become incredibly wealthy and gain a lot of power and control... and that would just create a huge organized crime syndicate like when banning alcohol gave Al Capone and every other big mafioso type power.

lavazza
03-08-2008, 07:53 AM
^Then itīs a problem with crime.....and you have to deal with this too......

lolmnt
03-08-2008, 12:41 PM
I don't support getting rid of guns completely. I'll be honest I own a gun, because my grandpa left it to me when he died. I do think there should be very strict requirements to buy/operate guns. I think there should be a mandatory background check for anybody to buy a gun, and a month long waiting period. Plus the seller of the gun can refuse to sell to anybody, as long as he has a reason not to.

werty22
03-08-2008, 02:11 PM
I don't support getting rid of guns completely. I'll be honest I own a gun, because my grandpa left it to me when he died. I do think there should be very strict requirements to buy/operate guns. I think there should be a mandatory background check for anybody to buy a gun, and a month long waiting period. Plus the seller of the gun can refuse to sell to anybody, as long as he has a reason not to.
I agree.

Berlioz97
03-08-2008, 05:26 PM
The argument of being able to defend yourself is stupid, really, or are there always gangs who try to invade your house? If yes it rather underlines your status as a banana republic, then the UN should send troops to Fresno and not to Congo.
Obviously, you've never been here. Haha. That made me laugh....Because it is that bad in some neighborhoods around where I live....(I think I hear gunshots twice a week, and someone who lived in our area actually took some people hostage in their homes and the police would only let residents in and out of the neighborhood with searching their cars first...)

Getting rid of guns in the USA would result in only criminals owning guns because they will ALWAYS have access to weapons. WE will not.

It may not be that way in Germany where the state is much stronger. But I'm a fan of a weaker government. For better or for worse, I'd rather take my chances than have a group of buereaucrats telling me what is good for me.

lavazza
03-09-2008, 11:49 AM
Obviously, you've never been here. Haha. That made me laugh....Because it is that bad in some neighborhoods around where I live....(I think I hear gunshots twice a week, and someone who lived in our area actually took some people hostage in their homes and the police would only let residents in and out of the neighborhood with searching their cars first...)

Getting rid of guns in the USA would result in only criminals owning guns because they will ALWAYS have access to weapons. WE will not.

It may not be that way in Germany where the state is much stronger. But I'm a fan of a weaker government. For better or for worse, I'd rather take my chances than have a group of buereaucrats telling me what is good for me.

Itīs a problem of your whole society, so there have to come slow changes, because you cannot deny that weapons are poison for a working community....if everybody has a gun, than you neednīt wonder that there are so many crimes and deaths because of guns. When you have a gun you use it and act in the affect.

ImAFukingZombee
03-10-2008, 10:56 AM
its worth voting in the UK just to stop the BNP getting seats


i have a theory..


the british government don't actually realise how much they are alienating / have alienated the british public....


therefore i propose a plan for loads of people to vote BNP to shock our government into realising theyre running things really poorly. Understand I'm not a racialismistophobiactist (?!) but the UK definately needs something to kick its government up the arse.


incidently... not voting isn't an option anymore... More people voted for the final of X-factor than they did for our Prime minister last elections. add the fact that they don't count spoilt vites any more... it basically means, if (in a make believe world) nobody were to vote... leadership would just roll over for another term....


aint that a load of boohlarks

axeslash
03-10-2008, 11:01 AM
I don't support gun control, since I wouldn't be able to cap the asses of the punk ass bitches who be trippin' all up in my grill.

sargasm
03-10-2008, 11:05 AM
i have a theory..


the british government don't actually realise how much they are alienating / have alienated the british public....


therefore i propose a plan for loads of people to vote BNP to shock our government into realising theyre running things really poorly. Understand I'm not a racialismistophobiactist (?!) but the UK definately needs something to kick its government up the arse.

That kind of reminds me of that time some WN party got seats or maybe even a chunk of the popular vote, I forget which, in France and everyone was mad at themselves for not voting.

Correct me if I'm remembering the location/nature of this incident wrong.

ImAFukingZombee
03-10-2008, 11:08 AM
either that or everyone in the UK should vote for me


i could start some kind of monster raving loony party type affair.



screaming lord sutch is my hero

SuperBlob
03-10-2008, 11:53 AM
either that or everyone in the UK should vote for me


i could start some kind of monster raving loony party type affair.



screaming lord sutch is my hero
Pah.

www.blahparty.org

lavazza
03-10-2008, 12:35 PM
I think you all know this affair (Please donīt ban me, because this is true!):
It was an election in Belgium

http://www.mediauser.de/images/tania.jpg

RockThe40oz
03-10-2008, 05:31 PM
^I'd vote for her

lavazza
03-11-2008, 11:04 AM
I think there was no need to vote for her, you had to give a donation to her party and I think the first 40,000 donators got a blowjob

RockThe40oz
03-11-2008, 12:04 PM
What if you donated 40,000 times?

lavazza
03-11-2008, 12:16 PM
I dunno........but I bet there was a certain amount you had to give.......maybe 5€ or so

This is still not so much for a blowjob I think

Berlioz97
03-12-2008, 04:54 AM
Ron Paul has nothing to do with anarchism. He would never let factories turn into syndicates or let people collectivize their communities because he would deregulate the economy so much that the rich would have even more control than they allready did. I'm sure you've looked up Ron Paul but I dunno how much Krotorpkin, Goldman or Baukunin you've read.

I don't have hope for democrats but I really just can't support someone who would hand our lives over to corporations that quickly.

He's not going to win anyways, he's not marketable in this campaign, people don't want an old white guy anymore... we'll have a black man or white woman... they might not be the best but hey this country voted for Bush 2 times in a row do you really think they care?
wow. i feel really bad about voting for a candidate who isn't a Democrat now. :rolleyes:
Collectivism is overrated liberal jibberish. Its just a way to get people to think everything works out. Anarchy if it were ever acvhieved would be capitalist. Its simply the nonexistance of a public sector. A private sector would kick in and of course people need to make a living. SO even if factories REALLY turned into syndicates, it wouldn't matter, because they would still be out to make a buck regardless.

I don't think just because Ron Paul supports deregulating the economy it would "hand our lives over to the corporations" in fact, I think Hillary Clinton or John McCain would do more to hand our lives over to the corporations than Ron Paul would considering the subsidies our government gives to corporations right now, and that he would take those subsidies away. Not to say his ideas were perfect; but he was correct about the direction of our economy and the reason for our current crisis. (that being the continued devaluation of the dollar in overseas market by the federal reserve)

People try to have it all. You have to be realistic. Which, back to the topic is why Punkvoter sucks so much.

This guy sums up my stance on Ron Paul very nicely http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQulCHrrX1w
Just watch this video and you will get it. Maybe?

whyvern
03-12-2008, 12:10 PM
But Ron Paul is not realistic. You also keep assuming that capitalism is the only system there is and any attempt at something different would revert back to capitalism. Just because it's the only economic system you know doesn't mean it's the only one possible. There have been other systems before capitalism and there will be more when it's gone. It's not a permanent institution.

Capitalism doesn't work unless you're wealthy. Because it depends on an underclass to be exploited. I can't justify myself supporting that system... the only reason I voted was to piss off Racists in my town (which I did), I know that WHATEVER president is elected they will still serve corporate interests above the interest of the general public.

If you look at how the economies and how life in general has been destroyed in most countries where the World Bank and the IMF have asked countries to "deregulate" their economy and "privatize it".

Being realistic is realizing that people are oppressed by this economic system and as decent human beings we cannot and will not let this stand. Deregulating the economy and giving our civil liberties to religious nutjobs will not help us, it will only hurt us and maintain the status quo. I'm not arguing for the Democrats or Republicans, I'm arguing for a real change, not the kind that's promised to you on TV screens, the kind we make promises of when we're all drunk and all about to pass out on the same couch all in love with each other and everyone in the world.

Berlioz97
03-13-2008, 12:18 AM
You also keep assuming that capitalism is the only system there is and any attempt at something different would revert back to capitalism. Just because it's the only economic system you know doesn't mean it's the only one possible. There have been other systems before capitalism and there will be more when it's gone. It's not a permanent institution.



You keep assuming that this nation is capable of running on a socialist system. You keep assuming that the government will do a better job running the economy than the private sector? in reality they're both bad.
you assume all capitalist societies are exploitive.
i'm not big on an economic system that disproportionately benefits the wealthy, however, people should be entitled to the fruits of their labor in its entirety.
it is regrettable that people on wall st. make money manipulating the economy, so yes, i do agree the capitalist system is flawed, but i do not think factories would ever turn into Syndicates or whatever anarcho BS people come up with to sound cool. Honestly, people treat making money like it is bad.

The reason I voted Paul was simple. I support his economic policies with respect to THIS current system. You have to work within the system to change it gradually. Especially since a full scale revolution will never be possible in this POS society.

I bet you voted for Obama? Only because he is black?
I like Obama for different reasons than simply he pisses off nazis.
He's not perfect either, but if he beats the bitch then he's got my vote in Nov.

Berlioz97
03-13-2008, 12:45 AM
McCain '08

He's got punk rock values, amirite..

Yep, he's a great candidate Fat Mike can complain about for 4 more years and make money off of through Rock Against McCain Volumes 1-8.

Seriously, if a Democrat got elected, why would there be any use to be punk? We wouldn't have anything to complain about....... :rolleyes:

axeslash
03-13-2008, 01:06 AM
Yep, he's a great candidate Fat Mike can complain about for 4 more years and make money off of through Rock Against McCain Volumes 1-8.

Seriously, if a Democrat got elected, why would there be any use to be punk? We wouldn't have anything to complain about....... :rolleyes:
You are obviously not from America.

Berlioz97
03-13-2008, 01:09 AM
I was born and raised in America. I just don't watch American Idol or Flavor of Love or whatever jackoff bs shows are on TV these days.

sargasm
03-13-2008, 01:23 AM
I was born and raised in West Philadelphia.

whyvern
03-13-2008, 02:35 AM
You keep assuming that this nation is capable of running on a socialist system. You keep assuming that the government will do a better job running the economy than the private sector? in reality they're both bad.
you assume all capitalist societies are exploitive.
i'm not big on an economic system that disproportionately benefits the wealthy, however, people should be entitled to the fruits of their labor in its entirety.
it is regrettable that people on wall st. make money manipulating the economy, so yes, i do agree the capitalist system is flawed, but i do not think factories would ever turn into Syndicates or whatever anarcho BS people come up with to sound cool. Honestly, people treat making money like it is bad.

The reason I voted Paul was simple. I support his economic policies with respect to THIS current system. You have to work within the system to change it gradually. Especially since a full scale revolution will never be possible in this POS society.

I bet you voted for Obama? Only because he is black?
I like Obama for different reasons than simply he pisses off nazis.
He's not perfect either, but if he beats the bitch then he's got my vote in Nov.

Making money off the backs of honest and innocent people is wrong. Saying that your pain is worth my gain is immoral. I don't believe in a socialist system. I never said I do. I don't believe that any hierarchical form of government is a viable one. The entire system of capitalism is BASED ON EXPLOITATION, so for you to tell me that some capitalist systems are not based on exploitation tells me that you're kind of confused as to what capitalism really is, and your stance on Canada makes no sense in relationship to the rest of your voting patterns, Canada has more government intrusion in their lives than the US ever probably will, they have universal health care, a high tax burden and a large welfare state all very contrary to anything Ron Paul would ever support.

I'm not saying these things to be cool, I'm saying them because I believe them.

I honestly go by the old Abbie Hoffman adage, "if voting really changed anything, they'd make it illegal" so yes I voted for Obama cos he was black. Because I know in Alabama my vote doesn't count for **** and if I can prove a point to racist rednecks that live in my town that a black man can possibly be president it's worth it. Even if an old White guy will win the race... My vote was simply symbolic. I don't support his campaign. I don't support any presidential bid.

I don't believe the government should run the economy. I believe in a system where people control their own lives and decisions are made with local autonomy based on consensus... not some corporate boardroom.

No matter who we vote for, the cogs of this system will keep turning and people will keep dying and getting ****ed over. Until we all wake up and say we've had enough. It's happened before and it will happen again. Their domination is neither perfect nor immortal.

If you say factories never will turn into syndicates... you're wrong. They have before. Our sisters and brothers in Chile and Argentina allready have done it and up until US intervention to instill the capitalist status quo, they were very successful with it. It'd do ya good to learn about the history of those and other Latin American countries if ya really understand why someone can hate a capitalist system so much and see the need for the type of society like I do.