How long does Lacquer take to set?


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Albino_Rhino
04-21-2008, 04:07 PM
YES I have read the ultimate painting and refinishing thread. Yes I have looked on google, yes I have read just about everything I could find.

I need one, single, definitive answer.

I have Rust-Oleum Clear Gloss Lacquer.

1) How many coats do I spray, and how far apart?

2) How long after I spray should I do the final wet sand and buff?

3) How long after I spray can I put my hardware back on?

I have heard that in a couple of weeks it's ok, but I have also heard you are supposed to wait like 4 months. Is there anyone on UG who has done this a few times, and know for sure how long to wait etc? I'm thinking someone like AlGeeEater would know... or any of you other experienced builders.

Thanks in advance for any helpful advice.

EDIT: Please if anyone knows I really need this information. Thanks

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 03:33 PM
Please, if anyone knows I really really need your help. I don't want to mess up my guitar and ruin the finish before it is cured.

carousel182
04-22-2008, 03:35 PM
a couple of weeks.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 03:38 PM
Do you mind me asking what your source is? I have heard anywhere from a few weeks to four months.

jscustomguitars
04-22-2008, 03:45 PM
If its cellulose you need to leave it for one day for every coat that it has. 18 coats = leave for 18 days.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 03:47 PM
Not nitrocellulose, water based. It's Rust-Oleum.

carousel182
04-22-2008, 04:10 PM
I use target coatings waterbased polyurethane. its fine if i let it set for a week or two. I'm spraying out of an hvlp sprayer though.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 04:17 PM
Yeah I don't have polyurethane. I have lacquer.

Rust-Oleum, High Gloss, Water Based, Lacquer.

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 04:37 PM
lacquer, in all of its incredible finished glory, WILL TAKE up to 3 to 5 months to FINISH hardening. depending upon your humidity, it could take twice as long. and temperature also.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 04:38 PM
ok. thanks, how long until I can play the thing?

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 04:42 PM
i would give it 3 or 4 weeks before i would start grinding down on some finish-sanding, you can play it after about a month, but just be damn-careful, it will probably still feel sticky.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 04:45 PM
really...? wierd. ok. On the can of lacquer it says dry to the touch in half an hour, should I just disregard that?

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 04:50 PM
well, actually yours is water-based. i just read that. i have not dealt with that yet, so you can disregard what i said.

ive been really interested in the luthiers mercantile water-based lacquer, its voted to be the best.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 04:53 PM
I think it is water based. It's definitely not nitro, what other kinds are there?

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 04:56 PM
well, there is chemical based, and water based. chemicals use chemical reactants, water based uses.. duh... water based reactants. the chemical reaction takes alot of time to completely finish itself. water, im sure, doesnt take very long at all, i would still ATLEAST let it sit 24 hours before touching it, in a nice, moderate (60-70 degree) temperature. dry too, low humidity.

I would spray 2-3 light coats, then 5 or 6 heavy coats. wait 24 hours, then sound out your runs, orange peel, over spray...etc. then buff it with some dry polishing compound. stew macs polishing compound is excellent.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 04:58 PM
Ah ok. Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the help!

dogismycopilot
04-22-2008, 05:03 PM
My dads friend made a V and coated it with the same stuff. Was done after 6 months. That was a bit overkill imo. He also did it in the fall when it was cold, so he had to bring it in the basement to dry. Its cold in the basement too, so maybe a few months less if it was warmer?

I think that you could better and buy nitro to be honest. That water based stuff really does take a long time.

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 05:06 PM
Nah dude, the chemical based takes a long time, water doesn't. I just got off the phone with my friend who works in a body shop a few counties down, he told me that polyurethane is basically the way to go, but water-based lacquer is coming around a lot more, its fairly new.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 05:08 PM
Well I just bought it. I can't return it I don't think. And I have no idea where to get nitro, or any other kind of paint for that matter. Hold on I will go see if my paint can says what type it is.

EDIT: Ok well I'm guessing it is chemical based, it says it contains acetone, aromatic naptha, propane (wtf maybe I BBQ my guitar later?? lol), isobutane, and aliphatic naptha.

EDIT again: This stuff is for use on furniture and stuff. Don't you think the can might advise you not to touch it for like 6 months or whatever? I find it hard to believe that anyone would sell a product and lie about how to use it...

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 05:12 PM
acetone and naptha are paint thinners, i dont think there is much alarm. if it says water-based, im sure its water-based. however, if it were water based, it would be diluted/thinned with water, not chemicals.

dogismycopilot
04-22-2008, 05:14 PM
Nah dude, the chemical based takes a long time, water doesn't. I just got off the phone with my friend who works in a body shop a few counties down, he told me that polyurethane is basically the way to go, but water-based lacquer is coming around a lot more, its fairly new.
When either makes contact with air, they dry. It's not like epoxy where it wont harden unless it has another part added to it, it dries when it hits air.

Polyurethane is ok to use. Water based is becoming more popular, because little Timmy's parents cant teach him to read because they dont know how to themselves and they let him play with paints that contain really awesome things like lead and lacquer and that stuff, so they are now making paints that are acrylic.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 05:15 PM
I doesn't say water based. It doesnt say anything other than "Rust-Oleum Specialty Lacquer High Lustre Coating - Fast Drying- Smooth Finish - Indoor/Outdoor"

It certainly doesn't say it will be soft to the touch for 6 months... Are you guys sure that I am talking about the same product you are? I bought this stuff at Home Depot for like $6.95 lol...

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 05:17 PM
i dont know, the only lacquer ive used is nitro. that stuff takes FOREVER, and it will kill you if you get enough good whiffs.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 05:19 PM
lol. Well I'm using a NIOSH apporved N-95 mask. I think I should be OK, but I will follow any and all safety precautions you guys recommend.

dogismycopilot
04-22-2008, 05:19 PM
This is what i get for not reading....


Yea it should be dry within a few days. Let it dry between coats. Spray about 18 coats from 8" away moving from side to side. Do 1-3 pases at a time.

The stuff you have is used for like....finishing metal chairs or whatever you need to protect from water.

Its fine use it.

P.S. Test it on a piece of wood

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 05:21 PM
OK ok. So will this be Ok on my guitar? I mean, if it is a lacquer, it costs seven bucks, it looks good, and dries fast... why doesn't everyone use it? This seems too good to be true lol. Will it mess up my tone or something?

dogismycopilot
04-22-2008, 05:24 PM
OK ok. So will this be Ok on my guitar? I mean, if it is a lacquer, it costs seven bucks, it looks good, and dries fast... why doesn't everyone use it? This seems too good to be true lol. Will it mess up my tone or something?

Please dont ever say that again.

Its fine, use it god dammit.

Guitarzan1143
04-22-2008, 05:25 PM
yeah, you dont have to let it completely dry between coats, anyone whose used lacquer knows that lacquer melts into lacquer, so theoretically, if you let a coat dry for 2 years, then sprayed more lacquer on it, he whole entire amout of lacquer would be wet again.

safety i would say spray outside when its NOT WINDY, tack your guitar down very well to avoid getting lame **** under your finish. let it dry inside where there is no dust and floating crap, id spray a coat every hour or so, get 10 or so coats, then let it sit a few days hanging up drying.

and as far as tone, it wont matter. polyurethane will slightly dampen wood vibrations, but its nowhere near audible.

dogismycopilot
04-22-2008, 05:26 PM
Oh, the reason more people dont use it is because nitro dries to be harder, faster and it is cheaper. But the stuff you have will dry hard enough and will be fine.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 05:31 PM
Oh ok. Well I have it hanging off a coat hanger, through the neck mounting holes, in my garage. It's about 15 - 20 degrees celsius in there (20 is around room temp) and there is no wind or flying dust to speak of! Ok well thank you guys a ton for the help, I was lost without it.

(sorry dog... I know it is ridiculous to think that a 128th of an inch of paint would mess up my tone... I just typed it while I wasn't thinking clearly. All those lacquer fumes have gone to my head hahah)

dogismycopilot
04-22-2008, 05:38 PM
Oh ok. Well I have it hanging off a coat hanger, through the neck mounting holes, in my garage. It's about 15 - 20 degrees celsius in there (20 is around room temp) and there is no wind or flying dust to speak of! Ok well thank you guys a ton for the help, I was lost without it.

(sorry dog... I know it is ridiculous to think that a 128th of an inch of paint would mess up my tone... I just typed it while I wasn't thinking clearly. All those lacquer fumes have gone to my head hahah)
:haha Thats ok. Last thing we need is another Eric Johnson.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 05:39 PM
:D haha nice. Him and his damned cliffs of dover...

Tackleberry
04-22-2008, 08:05 PM
When laquer is used on furniture they dont usually put 20 coats on like a guitar. So it dries faster. The old style laquer took about 30 days before you could assemble things. Have never used the stuff in spray cans. I just go and buy paint at auto body supply places but of course needs a paint gun. The chemical cure stuff is easier to use but still gotta let it sit a few days baking before you can attach stuff to it.

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 09:40 PM
Well I'm letting it sit one day per coat, or a max of about 2 weeks. I will test the finish in a hidden spot (trem cavity) to see if it is hard.

Ippon
04-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Well I'm letting it sit one day per coat, or a max of about 2 weeks. I will test the finish in a hidden spot (trem cavity) to see if it is hard.As already posted, it's always prudent to let the acrylic cure or fully harden, say 3-6 weeks, before the final buffing/polishing.

I've always followed the recommended protocol; however, on my 3rd documented mod/assembly/finishing thread, I did the paint job in less than 2 days. I installed the hardware immediately after the final wetsanding on the 2nd day. :)

I did it because I wanted to find out how the latest paint technology would stand up to abuse (as in not follow the recommendations) and I had a birthday party gig for a close friend.

I disassembled the guitar last week so I can see how the finish was affected by the immediately installed hardware. I also wanted to test some other PUs. The thing still looks glossy wet. The clear I sprayed wasn't even close to the rcommended rule of 3s. YMMV!

:cheers:

Albino_Rhino
04-22-2008, 10:02 PM
It's not acrylic... it's lacquer. Which I believe is waterbased, but I do not know.

And, by your post I can't tell if you recommend putting the hardware on right away or recommend waiting... I do not know what YMMV is, and I am not familiar with the rule of three's.

Ippon
04-22-2008, 10:10 PM
Rule of 3s from ReRanch 101. YMMV = Your mileage may vary.

I'm not recommending that you install your hardware immediately. I'm sharing an observation that installing the hardware immediately, in my case, didn't seem to have bad after effects. Therefore, YMMV. :)

I've tried both oil- and water-based, and so far, so good. I've also used the relatively new (introduced the past 6-12 months) water-based brush-on Poly from MinWax, incredible!

:cheers:

Albino_Rhino
04-23-2008, 08:55 AM
Ok thanks!