Do i always need to begin/end at root note in solos


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nyandres
05-15-2008, 01:09 AM
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6545849

I was told every end note in that song was off. I personally thought it sounded good, except at the last quarter of the song where im going out the scale by mistake.

But is every end note in there indeed bad?

So I do need to always end at the same starting root note? I thought I could just transfer to those other notes using modes.

So how do I go about it?


I already made another thread to critique that recording. Here what I want is help with the theory.

Shred-Hed
05-15-2008, 01:13 AM
Lol, there are NO rules about what notes to end your solos on, just do what feels right and rock on!

nyandres
05-15-2008, 01:15 AM
Lol, there are NO rules about what notes to end your solos on, just do what feels right and rock on!

So that solo. Would you call it decent for an improv, or off key?

Demonology
05-15-2008, 01:20 AM
I personally think it sounds alright...

If there were bad notes, they wouldn't be on the fretboard now would they? :P

pwrmax
05-15-2008, 01:24 AM
Think of the scale as a guide for a solo rather than a limitation.

Shred-Hed
05-15-2008, 01:24 AM
Andres, you don't seem to have a very good understanding of the whole "modes of the major scale" thing, but honestly that doesn't really matter. Your playing still sounds good. There was some neat arpeggio stuff in the middle there. Maybe a few notes weren't "in key" but hey, that happens, as you play more you just learn what sounds you like and don't like, always learning kinda thing... at least for me anyway.

dirtymexican863
05-15-2008, 01:27 AM
no...next question....

Krzy8
05-15-2008, 01:33 AM
i have one thing to say.

"Play what sounds good"

nyandres
05-15-2008, 01:33 AM
Andres, you don't seem to have a very good understanding of the whole "modes of the major scale" thing, but honestly that doesn't really matter. Your playing still sounds good. There was some neat arpeggio stuff in the middle there. Maybe a few notes weren't "in key" but hey, that happens, as you play more you just learn what sounds you like and don't like, always learning kinda thing... at least for me anyway.

I also think it sounds good. But I was told every end note was off key since it did not finish in the root note. But then again i like the way that solo sounds. When I did go off key to my ears i tried to slide quickly to a note in the scale. I am self taught so i wanted to make sure I did not learned in a flawed matter. Im glad im not the only one who thinks it sounds good.

Shred-Hed
05-15-2008, 01:37 AM
being on key doesnt entail ending on the root note, it just means playing the same group of notes that the backround music is playing.

nyandres
05-15-2008, 01:39 AM
So as long as im playing notes within the scale and begin with the root note i am free to phrase them in any way, and it wont sound out of tune.

I also want to add some dark scales to my repertoire. ALl these scales seem positive sounding

Shred-Hed
05-15-2008, 01:45 AM
You don't even have to begin with the root note. Thirds and fifths always work out. If your into darker sounds check out phrygian or aeolian in the natural minor scale, and if your brave enough to venture into harmonic minor or melodic minor then all the modes pretty much have a less "happy" sound, but ya, just play guitar and see what happens.

forsaknazrael
05-15-2008, 01:52 AM
Some of your bends are kinda odd sounding. Definitely bending to notes out of key, and hitting some out of key notes...

As for landing on the root note...you don't always need to...But you should approach your solos like a song within the song you're playing. there should be a structure to it, like a verse, bridge, verse, chorus...You get the idea. And then structure your licks on top of that. Finish a phrase so it sounds good over the chords/bass you're playing over. You have to keep the rhythm instruments in mind...your solo has to be in context of the notes they're playing.

As for the recording quality itself...turn up the level on your guitar, turn down the drums. It's hard to hear what's going on.

And lastly, about dark scales...any scale can be as dark or as heavy as you want. Paul Gilbert uses the major scale a lot, like I believe it's what most of "Technical Difficulties" is based on. Sounds pretty badass to me. And if I can recall correctly...Tony Iommi used the major scale a lot too. His solos sound epic and dark, no question. It's ALL about how you play it, and what notes you emphasize.
That said, a scale like harmonic minor may appeal to you.

Washburnd Fretz
05-15-2008, 02:59 AM
You dont have to start and end on the same note...no way!!
sometimes a note outside of the scale can even add a nice
touch. There are no rules to music.

Think of music theory as a large compilation of data due to
experiments of trial and error. Most musicians learn it to so
they wont have to go through so much trial and error or their
own. There are always new discoveries from player to player.

you can think of a scale as a group of notes that will be at peace
with a chord progression. They wont sound bad. Its a group of
notes...we happen to learn them in terms of strings that are numbered
but they can be used in an infinite number of ways.

9 times out of 10 when a person says you *have to* do something in
music they are wrong. To be a good musician you have to study music.
Go to some blues clubs or open mics and watch different guitarists
improvise..and sometimes u will witness a clinic. I once saw a guy break
a string in the middle of a solo and finish it with a totally different pattern
on shifted root in a 3 strings scale. That is probably the best performance
ive ever seen live. and he wasnt even famous...

oh yeah..most people think the key of the song is the first and last chord
or notes in a song..so if u start with a different chord in the progression
other than the key..some musicians that think that way will never be able
to figure out how to play ur song....They hear u start with an *E-chord*
so they assume its key of E...not even thinking of all the chord progressions
that contain an *E*. It could be any one of them...

sajuuk
05-15-2008, 03:19 AM
sounds fine to me

steven seagull
05-15-2008, 08:54 AM
It's not so much about root notes, but you need to pay more atention to the chords you're playing over. Obviously you don't HAVE to do this, but it's good practice to resolve when the chord changes, either with the root note of that chord or with one of the chord tones. Following on from that, it's also good to move towards that resolution as the chord change approaches, so a simple thing like a chromatic shift from the 7th to the root (again talking about the specific chord you're moving to as opposed to the key you're playing in), a slow wailing bend up from the dom7 to the root, a slide down to the 5th etc.

Modes aren't really relevant here - that's probably what's confusing matters. If you've been "choosing to play a mode" and therefore picking a different root note you haven't really done anything, all you've done is start a scale on the wrong note, and therefore attempted to resolve on the wrong note which is why it sounds off. Modes aren't like that, you can't just "decide" that you're going to use them, your underlying chord progression dictates what mode you can play, if any. In the case of the progression you've recorded over there they don't apply at all so trying to use them isn't going to work.

Remember, over that whole chord progression there's a single dominant tonality, that's tells you the key of the scale. Invariably as the chords change they'll alter the feel of each note in the scale, you need to be aware of that in order to solo effectively and not sound like a load of random notes. They'll also throw up a couple of extra notes you an use over that particular chord and still sound "safe". Don't forget that the "unsafe" notes are just as important, music is all about tension and resolution. The further you stray from the scale the more unstable things sound, the closer you get to it the stronger it sounds


Also, the scales you're using aren't particularly happy, but the chord progression you're playing over is.

nyandres
05-15-2008, 12:11 PM
It's not so much about root notes, but you need to pay more atention to the chords you're playing over. Obviously you don't HAVE to do this, but it's good practice to resolve when the chord changes, either with the root note of that chord or with one of the chord tones. Following on from that, it's also good to move towards that resolution as the chord change approaches, so a simple thing like a chromatic shift from the 7th to the root (again talking about the specific chord you're moving to as opposed to the key you're playing in), a slow wailing bend up from the dom7 to the root, a slide down to the 5th etc.

Modes aren't really relevant here - that's probably what's confusing matters. If you've been "choosing to play a mode" and therefore picking a different root note you haven't really done anything, all you've done is start a scale on the wrong note, and therefore attempted to resolve on the wrong note which is why it sounds off. Modes aren't like that, you can't just "decide" that you're going to use them, your underlying chord progression dictates what mode you can play, if any. In the case of the progression you've recorded over there they don't apply at all so trying to use them isn't going to work.

Remember, over that whole chord progression there's a single dominant tonality, that's tells you the key of the scale. Invariably as the chords change they'll alter the feel of each note in the scale, you need to be aware of that in order to solo effectively and not sound like a load of random notes. They'll also throw up a couple of extra notes you an use over that particular chord and still sound "safe". Don't forget that the "unsafe" notes are just as important, music is all about tension and resolution. The further you stray from the scale the more unstable things sound, the closer you get to it the stronger it sounds


Also, the scales you're using aren't particularly happy, but the chord progression you're playing over is.

This is exactly what i was looking for. Wow, a lot of stuff to think about.

Habit Zero
05-15-2008, 12:25 PM
Sounds to me like you're bending out of key, and possibly changing keys a lot, or at least focusing on certain notes within a key, a lot.


But it doesn't matter, because it sounds good! :)

nyandres
05-15-2008, 12:27 PM
Sounds to me like you're bending out of key, and possibly changing keys a lot, or at least focusing on certain notes within a key, a lot.


But it doesn't matter, because it sounds good! :)

Thats what i mean. It does not follow the classical music rules, which are what most music seems to base on as far as theory. But I like the sound of it. But I was just scared my taste was bad or something. I thought maybe it sounds good to me and **** to everyone else. Anyways im gonna try to follow the theory a lil more strictly so I can interchange between this way and the stricter method.

Habit Zero
05-15-2008, 03:47 PM
Thats what i mean. It does not follow the classical music rules, which are what most music seems to base on as far as theory. But I like the sound of it. But I was just scared my taste was bad or something. I thought maybe it sounds good to me and **** to everyone else. Anyways im gonna try to follow the theory a lil more strictly so I can interchange between this way and the stricter method.


The only thing you really need to worry about is your bending/vibrato, just learn to control it a little bit more. Theory is a guideline, not a rule, and sometimes that extra blue note is hardly noticed, or sounds great, but sometimes it may just sound horrible. That's why you learn theory (IMO), so that when you improvise, you have a good idea of what will sound great and what wont.

Horlicks
05-15-2008, 03:50 PM
There are no rules for soloing,
To critique the recording, some of your bends were out, the tone sounded pretty thin to me. Good playing otherwise