London Calling (The Clash) - I just don't get it...


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lp345
08-16-2008, 07:29 AM
I mean, it does have alot of great songs on it, but for such a revered album, it sure does have alot of filler/weak songs on it. Very overrated IMO....

lavazza
08-16-2008, 08:40 AM
thatīs a really good thread man......itīll surely be in the choice to become my favourite thread in the polls next year. But Iīm interested in one thing: Is it a typo that you wrote London Calling and did you mean American Idiot?

lp345
08-16-2008, 08:42 AM
No...

lavazza
08-16-2008, 08:48 AM
check it again, did you really mean london calling? and aswer fast, because some mod will close this thread really soon

lp345
08-16-2008, 08:51 AM
Its just my opinion...

:sad:

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 08:51 AM
Shut the f*ck up Adölf Tom. Our threadstarting friend here is quite right.

Around this time the Clash started to write quantity over quality.

So instead of using 3 riffs and progressions in songs, they started using one per song. By the time they recorded sandanista, they did that exclusively.

Half the songs on London Calling, eg. Brand New Cadillac usw. are really good tracks, and the other half (eg. Jimmy Jazz, the Card Cheat, Lost in the Supermarket, The Guns of Brixton) are really f*cking sh*te.

For some reason, Messrs. Strummer and Jones thought that by going with quantity over quality they were being cool to their audiences. That's not a good idea.

Rick Wakemen went with quantity, complexity and polish over any fundamental talent, as as a result everything he ever did f*cking sucks. And his daughter's a f*cking bitch too. But that's another story.

Would you rather listen to 15 minutes of gold dust three times over, or 45 minutes of gold dust molested by twice its volume of drawn out filler?

lp345
08-16-2008, 09:03 AM
I agree with what you said, although I do like some of the songs you called ****e, like Guns... and The Card Cheat

Most of the album I just find dreadfully dull and boring

I can't understand why critics have so much love for this album

lavazza
08-16-2008, 09:11 AM
Shut the f*ck up Adölf Tom. Our threadstarting friend here is quite right.

Around this time the Clash started to write quantity over quality.

So instead of using 3 riffs and progressions in songs, they started using one per song. By the time they recorded sandanista, they did that exclusively.

Half the songs on London Calling, eg. Brand New Cadillac usw. are really good tracks, and the other half (eg. Jimmy Jazz, the Card Cheat, Lost in the Supermarket, The Guns of Brixton) are really f*cking sh*te.


Guns of Brixton is a classic....I mean itīs a great song, whatever you say. I rather think the second half is weaker than the first half. Jimmy Jazz is also good. The Card Cheat or Koka Kola arenīt so good, but still great. But even if they did quantity rather than quality.......the NY Dolls started with that at the beginning and people in this forum still love them because liking Elvis is unponx.
But why do you know that Iīm Tom? I mean just the chatters know it or did you secretly looked at one of the band myspaces? CHEATER!

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 09:14 AM
It was voted the best album of the 1980's... but was released in 1979.

The only reason it's so popular is that it's been continually canonised for 30 years. When it came out it was an accessible pop record. The music critics rather liked it at the time, again and again they heralded it as a great album. Building it up year after year, influencing readers who would go on to write the magazines.

Also, music in the 1980's was utterly sh*t, talent went straight downhill because nobody played their own instruments and had to play along to tapes, or even mime, live.

So it's not surprising that the music industry coolmakers had to drag something in from another decade to be the best thing.

lavazza
08-16-2008, 09:20 AM
The only reason it's so popular is that it's been continually canonised for 30 years. When it came out it was an accessible pop record. The music critics rather liked it at the time, again and again they heralded it as a great album. Building it up year after year, influencing readers who would go on to write the magazines.


Maybe it was pop, but the thing is you cannot London Calling put into any genre, parts are ska, others arenīt Rudie canīt fail and Hateful are extraordinarily good songs

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 09:30 AM
Maybe it was pop, but the thing is you cannot London Calling put into any genre, parts are ska, others arenīt Rudie canīt fail and Hateful are extraordinarily good songs

That's why London Calling is a pop record. Because the songs are singable and accessible, and some of them did quite well in the charts. In terms of genre, it's a tapestry of various things.

There is a huge rock n' roll element though, which sucks because only 2 years before the clash declared there to be "no beatles, elvis or the rolling stones" and outright dismissed any pub rock bands like Eddie and the Hot Rods. Which is one reason why I f*cking hate the clash.

Rudie can't fail is an awesome song. I think that hateful is pretty much sh*t.

Clampdown is a good song.

lavazza
08-16-2008, 09:32 AM
There is a huge rock n' roll element though, which sucks because only 2 years before the clash declared there to be "no beatles, elvis or the rolling stones" and outright dismissed any pub rock bands like Eddie and the Hot Rods. Which is one reason why I f*cking hate the clash.

Rudie can't fail is an awesome song. I think that hateful is pretty much sh*t.

Clampdown is a good song.

In which songs are Rock īnī Roll elements? Rock īnīRoll = Stray Cats!

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 09:39 AM
As I recall, BNC is in a very bluesy-rock format. And the lyrics.

Why the f*ck were the clash singing about cadillacs? They were supposed to be singing about what they ''knew'' (and I use that term loosely), about career opportunities and the likes.

lavazza
08-16-2008, 09:43 AM
As I recall, BNC is in a very bluesy-rock format. And the lyrics.

Why the f*ck were the clash singing about cadillacs? They were supposed to be singing about what they ''knew'' (and I use that term loosely), about career opportunities and the likes.

The Sex Pistols sang about Anarchy and who can say he knows anarchy?

and I wouldnīt say BNC is RnR just because the ternary feeling

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 09:50 AM
The Pistols never claimed to be a punk band. They just wanted to make f*ckloads of money, which they did.

The Clash were the ones who claimed to be real and in it for the music. And proceeded to sign to CBS despite being bored with the USA. perhaps the USA wasn't so boring when there was ten grand in it for them.

The USA certainly wasn't boring when they got sent out there to tour.

lavazza
08-16-2008, 09:55 AM
The Pistols never claimed to be a punk band. They just wanted to make f*ckloads of money, which they did.

The Clash were the ones who claimed to be real and in it for the music. And proceeded to sign to CBS despite being bored with the USA. perhaps the USA wasn't so boring when there was ten grand in it for them.

The USA certainly wasn't boring when they got sent out there to tour.

The USA as instituion or government is a whole different thing than the USA as country, whcih is a country like all of the others.
As I once said, they had models like Blue Öyster Cult and npthing else. They oriented at the old Rock bands, noone thought about boycottign a mayor label as done later by the Anarcho punkbands. I denunciate this too, but Sex Pistols wanted to sign at EMI, SLF did, the Buzzcocks did, Ramones were at Sire, the Stooges were on a mayor label, so why are The Clash damned for this?

EDIT: Furthermore Strumemr was more intelligent afterwards and said I wouldnīt sign there again and Jones offers his music for free.

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 10:01 AM
Because the Clash were THE outright socialist band. The other groups didn't have strong political agendas and a set of morals forbidding integration into the establishment.

To quote Mr Mark Perry: "To me, the Clash were always the band who were going to go out and do it for themselves."

He says that they could have quite legitimately have put out their own records and done extremely well.

Look at the damned - the first punk band to be chucking out records, they were on the newfangled independents. That would have been a legitimate route to go down.

As for your edit, it's easy for Strummer and Jones to say that on hindsight. The clash went into the music industry without any insight. And got ripped off. Jones has made so much money that he doesn't need to make any more.

lavazza
08-16-2008, 10:04 AM
Because the Clash were THE outright socialist band. The other groups didn't have strong political agendas and a set of morals forbidding integration into the establishment.

To quote Mr Mark Perry: "To me, the Clash were always the band who were going to go out and do it for themselves."

He says that they could have quite legitimately have put out their own records and done extremely well.

Look at the damned - the first punk band to be chucking out records, they were on the newfangled independents. That would have been a legitimate route to go down.

As I said there was no socialist band before them, furthermorethey had to build a whole new way, a new way to make music and a new way to think in the music business, which other band had to do it before?

HiImKindaNewAnd
08-16-2008, 10:09 AM
It was voted the best album of the 1980's... but was released in 1979.


Sorry had to have it put up a second time.

lp345
08-16-2008, 10:12 AM
Who voted it the best album of the 80s????

HiImKindaNewAnd
08-16-2008, 10:16 AM
I believe Rolling Stone said it
But Rolling Stone is ****, anyway

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 10:18 AM
Woodie Guthran?

Oh yeah, some of the obscure hippy and hippy garage rock bands all were on independent labels. Although the punk era was when these labels took off, it wasn't a new thing.

While yeah, the clash were the band who made it problematic for punks to sign to majors, and they did stick out on their own a bit, they really weren't pioneers on any level.

Like I say, they could have quite legitimately followed the other early independent signing bands.

They signed to CBS because Bernie Rhodes was a greedy bastard.

lavazza
08-16-2008, 10:21 AM
They signed to CBS because Bernie Rhodes was a greedy bastard.

Yes but not the Clash. Rhodes in the end destroyed the Clash by ounumering Jones and because he told them what to write

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 10:29 AM
Actually, the Clash got offered a deal from Polydor too, which probably would have been more ethical and low-brow, but it was for less money, so Mick Jones said "we'll sign to CBS."

It's in the accompanying booklet to that 3cd box set of the Clash with the black cover. Can't remember the name.

And Bernie did tell them what to write about. Don't you find that ironic, as the clash are considered to be free minded, free thinking people?

Remember the famous comment "punk died the day the clash signed to CBS"? Allegedly, Strummer and Jones (who wrote 'now your rights' advocating free speech) told Perry (a member of the free press) that if he slagged them off again, he'd find himself at the bottom of the thames in concrete shoes.

neidnarb11890
08-16-2008, 11:04 AM
and the other half (eg. Jimmy Jazz, the Card Cheat, Lost in the Supermarket, The Guns of Brixton) are really f*cking sh*te.
Hey, I love all those songs!
:mad:

:(

Jett Diamond
08-16-2008, 11:42 AM
Guns of Brixton is a classic....I mean itīs a great song, whatever you say. I rather think the second half is weaker than the first half. Jimmy Jazz is also good. The Card Cheat or Koka Kola arenīt so good, but still great. But even if they did quantity rather than quality.......the NY Dolls started with that at the beginning and people in this forum still love them because liking Elvis is unponx.
But why do you know that Iīm Tom? I mean just the chatters know it or did you secretly looked at one of the band myspaces? CHEATER!
I'm going to take this opportunity to say that I completely agree with Brian and the TS. The Clash have a handful of songs I enjoy, and I wish they had written more of those. But I always feel like there's just a ton of filler shit. I just can NOT enjoy the Clash. London Calling had like 5 or 7 good songs, and the rest was just boring. Strummer's vocie is always too rough for me and Jones' is too much of a pop singer. I don't know, I just can't enjoy them and I'm always confused as to why they're praised as THE punk band.
But as much as I love you lavazza, I is tired of you bashing my Dolls. I love them so much, and far before I started posting on this forum. Seriously, how did they practice quantity over quality? They released two albums (three if you count the new one, but that's barely the same band), both of which were only 10 or 11 songs long. I mean, I don't wanna start an argument about opinions with you, haha, but what have you got against them?
Whatevz, we agree to disagree y'know, but why do you slam them in almost every thread you post in?

antianti99
08-16-2008, 11:46 AM
The reason London Calling is considered the best of the 80's by Rolling Stone is because RS is an American magazine , and London Calling was released in the US in January of 1980. LC was definetly a move away from the original punk sound of the Clash , but it definetly had the best lyric writing of any album by the Clash. They begin to realize there are bigger social and political issues in the world than there are in England. Such as in London Calling , Spanish Bombs and Koka Kola. Guns of Brixton is a classic song but like every other album there are some songs that are good but not great. And i don't see how you can knock them for trying new things. Should they just never chnage their sound and be the same all their lives , or risk their careers and make music that they want to make ?

CowsWithGuns
08-16-2008, 11:53 AM
No one's bashing them for trying new things. They're being bashed because they tried new things which happened to really suck.

waterproofpie
08-16-2008, 12:04 PM
thatīs a really good thread man......itīll surely be in the choice to become my favourite thread in the polls next year. But Iīm interested in one thing: Is it a typo that you wrote London Calling and did you mean American Idiot?


c'mon. Play nice. He's just stating a valid opinion. Plenty of regulars here have said similar things.

Hello.Kitty
08-16-2008, 02:22 PM
Lavazza I'd love to back you right now but I'm too hung over to live at this point and can't move on like 8 tylenol PMs. On top of that I'm finding what some people are posting here is comical.

xX*Zeppelin*Xx
08-16-2008, 02:59 PM
London Calling is one of my favourite albums ever. I love almost every single song. I can't begin to describe why I like it so much. The songs are incredibly well-crafted, the musicianship is amazing, the lyrics are fantastic - covering a lot of aspects of life, it's incredibly varried and the fusion of styles broke barriers between punk and other genres of music.

I know that a lot of guys here don't consider it a punk album - more of a rock album that happens to make social and political statements. I know that a lot of people say that they were "selling out". To be honest, I don't care if it's a punk album or not. It's an album full of incredible music. That's enough for me.

BrianApocalypse
08-16-2008, 03:05 PM
The reason London Calling is considered the best of the 80's by Rolling Stone is because RS is an American magazine , and London Calling was released in the US in January of 1980.

Aha, of course.

Cheers for clarifying.

HiImKindaNewAnd
08-16-2008, 03:19 PM
I haven't actually given an opinion yet, I should.
Its a damn good album, mostly solid songs (only "Four Horsemen" does nothing for me) but 19 songs is a bit much. It can be hard to listen to together. For the record, I am never going to attempt to listen to Sandinista all the way through.

Jett Diamond
08-16-2008, 04:16 PM
What's the matter, too DEEP for you guys?
Are you trying to say the Clash are too deep for me? Really?

RounderIII
08-16-2008, 04:17 PM
Brand New Cadillac
Hateful
Spanish Bombs
Train In Vain
Wrong 'Em Boyo
Lovers Rock
I'm Not Down
Revolution Rock

All = Kick ass

prplhazed
08-16-2008, 04:37 PM
London Calling was the first punk album i ever owned or listened to so I'll always have a special place for it.
I think it probly could have been trimmed a little more but its still one of my favorite albums ever, any genre.

Mav-16
08-16-2008, 05:46 PM
Sorry had to have it put up a second time.


Haha seriously

but that album came in AMERICA in 1980.....

THAT is why...

but yeah that album is totally overrated pop.

and was DEFY the sell out album for sure...

Plus the Clash are such bull ****ers......

I saw them on youtube on the "TOM SNYDER SHOW!" playing The Magnificent Seven, god that song sucks.... anyways, so after the band played they had a cute little interview, Strummer had his totally gay red leather vest on, and was combing his hair during whole interview... anyways....

So they are saying that "LIFE IS BORING AND WERE NOT RICH" bull ****.... after signing with Cbs YEARS before they made a bucket load with White Riot, and DUH London Calling...

so yeah..... I like some of the Clash's stuff, but F**k them and there stupid bull ****e political agenda lies

/rant over

DayTripper1967
08-16-2008, 05:50 PM
What's the matter, too DEEP for you guys?
haha, that's exactly what i think too. sorry, but punk is more than just 3 power chords.

Jett Diamond
08-16-2008, 05:58 PM
You two (Leonheart and Daytripper) do realize that the majority of people here who aren't fans of the Clash / London Calling are more than aware of that?

axeslash
08-16-2008, 06:29 PM
I enjoy the Clash's music and I enjoy London Calling. Anyone who wants to make fun of me is wasting their time.

mike2
08-16-2008, 07:09 PM
i love the clashs first two albums... london calling is alright...and after london calling the only song I really like is police on my back.

werty22
08-16-2008, 07:17 PM
The Pistols never claimed to be a punk band.
Of course they did.

London Calling is probably a classic album because people knew of The Clash as a punk band before. London Calling was more diverse. Other punk bands had diversified their styles, but none of them were as popular as The Clash.

I think it's overrated. I like their S/T and Sandinista! better. LC ties with Give 'Em Enough Rope.

I'm not going to argue about whether they sold out or whether they were hypocrites. I don't care. I just like their music.

I don't think they have any more filler than the average band, by the way.

DisgruntledDuck
08-16-2008, 09:03 PM
I love the titular track, Brand New Cadillac, Hateful and Rudie Can't Fail. Other than that, London Calling doesn't really inspire me. Give me their self titled album any day.

antianti99
08-16-2008, 09:04 PM
What was wrong with being on the Tomorrow Show ? Tons of great punk bands and solo artists were on it. Ramones, Patti Smith , The Jam , Iggy and Johnny Rotten all had interviews on it . But i don't see people calling them sellouts for it. ANd if the Clash wanted to be sellouts all about the money why'd they quit at their peak ? Joe and Paul could have easily put up with Mick for a few more years and watch the money come in by the millions. And after they broke up they could have done a " Reunion " or a " Farewell " tour and makes millions just by singing old songs and doing nothing new. Instead the only thing close to a reunion was Mick and Joe playing a free ( unplanned ) gig for striking firefighters.
But getting back to the topic - if LC was a " sellout " Pop record , wouldn't they have made a Disco record ? At the time that was what was popular , what big Pop artists we're mixing ska , reggae and rockabilly ?

Iluvpowerchords
08-16-2008, 11:08 PM
There are a few filler songs yes. But thats to be expected when you put 19 tracks onto an album.

The good songs on the record are all brilliant though.

The only songs I really don't like are Brand New Caddillac, Lover's Rock and Koka Kola (which is over in under 2 minutes anyway.)

I :heart: that album.

I don't really care about the Politics of the Clash or anything like that. They wrote good tunes and Occasionally Strummer said something meaningful to someone.

lounge act
08-16-2008, 11:19 PM
I don't like Lost in the Supermarket, Koka Kola, the Card Cheat, Four Horsemen, or The Right Profile, but I think the rest is very good. Death or Glory is one of my favorites on LC because it is kind of reminiscent of the first two albums. I understand that its fun to experiment with new styles because only one can get boring, but I'm glad they at least had Death or Glory to go back to the old style, if only for four minutes.

RiotRiotUpstart
08-16-2008, 11:29 PM
I always liked Combat Rock more than London Calling. That being said, I don't really like the Clash a whole lot.

neidnarb11890
08-17-2008, 12:27 AM
The only songs I really don't like are Brand New Caddillac, Lover's Rock and Koka Kola (which is over in under 2 minutes anyway.)

I :heart: that album.
I always felt that those high-pitched backing vocals ruined Lover's Rock, which otherwise would have been a good song.
I love the other two you mentioned though.

MHDrunk
08-17-2008, 03:31 AM
haha, that's exactly what i think too. sorry, but punk is more than just 3 power chords.

as a rabid old-school death metal fan, complexity really isnt an issue with me. but i'm still siding with the TS and going a bit further to say that the 'good' songs are pretty useless anyway. and i dont ONLY like metal, or only like punk... i like most things from raw black metal to barrington levy, but tbh London Calling as an album strikes me as empty, half-hearted, directionless and overall insipid crap

BrianApocalypse
08-17-2008, 07:19 AM
Of course they did.

No they didn't. They only ever claimed to be Sex Pistols.

I'm not going to argue about whether they sold out or whether they were hypocrites. I don't care. I just like their music.

That's because you're a shallow music fan.

I don't think they have any more filler than the average band, by the way.

That's right. But then your average band aren't hailed as being super mega heroes, so for them it doesn't really matter.

Like you say,

none of them were as popular as The Clash.

Oh yeah, wrong 'em boyo sucks too.

BrianApocalypse
08-17-2008, 07:25 AM
What was wrong with being on the Tomorrow Show ? Tons of great punk bands and solo artists were on it. Ramones, Patti Smith , The Jam , Iggy and Johnny Rotten all had interviews on it . But i don't see people calling them sellouts for it.

It's not the going on the show, so much as acting like a little clay band of pussies. At least when Rotten went on (with that godawful Keith Levine) he had something interesting to say. All Strummer and Jones did was play with the teddy bears.

And after they broke up they could have done a " Reunion " or a " Farewell " tour and makes millions just by singing old songs and doing nothing new. Instead the only thing close to a reunion was Mick and Joe playing a free ( unplanned ) gig for striking firefighters.

Actually, a clash reunion WAS on the cards, but then Strummer died. Read Johnny Green's book.

But getting back to the topic - if LC was a " sellout " Pop record , wouldn't they have made a Disco record ? At the time that was what was popular , what big Pop artists we're mixing ska , reggae and rockabilly ?

The disco elements were a year later. All the punks were influenced by West Indian music, so what?

And don't you find it ironic that the Clash threw away their old rock music, only to pick it up again? Typical clash, full of contradictions.

So yeah, f*ck the clash.

axeslash
08-17-2008, 07:28 AM
Man hating everything sounds like so much work.

BrianApocalypse
08-17-2008, 07:29 AM
It's pretty easy actually, you just listen to 'cut the crap'. It really gets you in the mood to break down the Clash canon.

axeslash
08-17-2008, 07:50 AM
Yeah.

I'll get riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight on that.

I'll make sure and obsessively listen to **** Sparrer's discography and tell you how boring I find them. That will make for INTERESTING CONVERSATIONS.

werty22
08-17-2008, 08:30 AM
No they didn't. They only ever claimed to be Sex Pistols.

They didn't go around saying "OI OI OI UP DA PUNX" all the time, (which the Clash essentially did to some extent) but they talked about what punk was "about" in interviews sometimes, and they didn't do so from an outsider's perspective. As far as I know, they never said they weren't punk.

That's because you're a shallow music fan..

Fair enough.

That's right. But then your average band aren't hailed as being super mega heroes, so for them it doesn't really matter..

Fair enough.

Oh yeah, wrong 'em boyo sucks too.

Fair enough.

neidnarb11890
08-17-2008, 10:03 AM
Oh yeah, wrong 'em boyo sucks too.
I'll give you that. :p:

ss311
08-17-2008, 10:32 AM
The lyrical themes of the Clash are about as deep as a toddler's swimming pool. If you want to listen to stereotypically safe socialist lyrics, listen to the Clash. I like some of the band's songs, but a lot of it is just garbage.

xX*Zeppelin*Xx
08-17-2008, 10:44 AM
That's because you're a shallow music fan.


How did you jump to that conclusion? Someone cares more about the actual music than the status of or views held by the band who made it and that makes them a "shallow music fan"?

sebbsmith
08-17-2008, 10:48 AM
Also, music in the 1980's was utterly sh*t, talent went straight downhill because nobody played their own instruments and had to play along to tapes, or even mime, live.


You're clearly forgetting hardcore punk!

I'm going off topic here, but just because they used manufactured sounds (synths, etc), doesn't mean there was no talent. Good song writing is good song writing no matter what the instrument.

Mack56
08-17-2008, 12:11 PM
Oh yeah, wrong 'em boyo sucks too.

i think that's something we can all agree on.

BrianApocalypse
08-17-2008, 01:51 PM
You're clearly forgetting hardcore punk!

Good call. The hardcore punks did in fact play their own instruments. They did not mime or play along to tapes.

I'm going off topic here, but just because they used manufactured sounds (synths, etc), doesn't mean there was no talent. Good song writing is good song writing no matter what the instrument.

Most electronic music, however, places emphasis on the 'deep significance' of the electronic sounds and repetitive, monotonous rhythm over any fundamental musical prowess. Some entire electronic genres aren't even written by humans, they just program computers which pick tones at random. I'm sure that's incredibly significant under the influence of MDMA, but it defeats the point of music, which is first and foremost a human experience. But I digress.

That's how a lot of lazy twats in the north of england have found relative ame and fortune. If you don't want to go out and work, either become an lectronica 'musician', or become a promoter. You get all the money for having zero creative talent. That's what a lot of the first wave of punks did. In the same way as the hippies, they pretty much became the establishment that they were fighting. But I digress.

As far as I know, they never said they weren't punk.

I don't think they denied it at the time, although both Steve and John (repeatedly) have stressed that they weren't punks. I've not seen evidence that they DID claim to be punks.

BrianApocalypse
08-17-2008, 02:08 PM
How did you jump to that conclusion? Someone cares more about the actual music than the status of or views held by the band who made it and that makes them a "shallow music fan"?

If I had a penny for every time I had to explain this, I'd have enough for a KitKat...

You can't take music at face value and get the full satisfaction out of it, because it's a powerful form of human expression. To fully appreciate music, you have to look at a wider scale, considering the cultural identity, values and integrity of the piece.

In the case of the Clash, the themes and values of the lyrics are belied and tarnished by the band's actions. Anyone with a brain, anyone who once owned a brain, or anyone that can spell brain can see that these connotations logically devalues the music.

Ask yourself this question: Is it OK for Skrewdriver or Ian Mackaye to be a racist, homophobic skinhead because ''their music fawking rawks dude!!!'' No it isn't. To blindly ignore the negative connotations of music IS shallow. IT is the jumping to a conclusion because you're ignoring impirical evidence. I use this analogy a lot because it fits - it's like saying "Hitler was awesome because he was a strong economist".

And for the record, I still feel that the music itself is the most important element, but it isn't the be-all-end-all. It's like the blues, I suppose. You have to feel the blues to play the blues. You'll have to relate this analogy yourself, of course, because it doesn't tie in in a linear fashion.

Apologies if this is unclear, I'm sure that it is, but it's a rather difficult thing to express within the limitations of human language.

xX*Zeppelin*Xx
08-17-2008, 03:26 PM
^ I personally believe that a piece of music is complete. Obviously someone who is interested in the music will examine the history surrounding it but, generally, you don't have to know its context to get the "full satisfaction" out of it, in my opinion. Although it obviously depends on the piece of music.

Fedayee
08-17-2008, 04:19 PM
Half the songs on London Calling, eg. Brand New Cadillac usw. are really good tracks, and the other half (eg. Jimmy Jazz, the Card Cheat, Lost in the Supermarket, The Guns of Brixton) are really f*cking sh*te.

What the hell? I love all those songs you mentioned!
London Calling is so big because it is an amazing, dyed-in-the-wool punk band showing that punk is an attitude for the most part and that everyone who thought that punk wasn't art was just talking bull****. They were building on all their musical influences, punk or anything else.
Also, I can listen to the album for hours on end and not get bored. That is, in part, due to the fact that it spans so many different musical genres. I love London Calling. It is, quite possibly, the most solid album I've ever heard.

Mav-16
08-17-2008, 07:43 PM
What the hell? I love all those songs you mentioned!
London Calling is so big because it is an amazing, dyed-in-the-wool punk band showing that punk is an attitude for the most part and that everyone who thought that punk wasn't art was just talking bull****. They were building on all their musical influences, punk or anything else.
Also, I can listen to the album for hours on end and not get bored. That is, in part, due to the fact that it spans so many different musical genres. I love London Calling. It is, quite possibly, the most solid album I've ever heard.


Hahhaha

after all this discussion, you just jump right back in the beginning of the argument...

Anyways.... I completely agree with Brian on his take in music. You really have to FEEL the music to "get it" I suppose.

I didn't get into Punk until my overall outlook on politics and life changed. That's when I really got into Punk because I could relate to the lyrics and expression of the artists/band whatever.

And The Clash were bull ****ers.... they took something, exploited it, AMERICANIZED it, then jumped on rap/disco/funk whatever radio crap.

Very very, typical of a band that wants to be successful.

Hello.Kitty
08-17-2008, 08:35 PM
You're all silly.

axeslash
08-17-2008, 08:39 PM
Hahhaha

after all this discussion, you just jump right back in the beginning of the argument...

Anyways.... I completely agree with Brian on his take in music. You really have to FEEL the music to "get it" I suppose.

I didn't get into Punk until my overall outlook on politics and life changed. That's when I really got into Punk because I could relate to the lyrics and expression of the artists/band whatever.

And The Clash were bull ****ers.... they took something, exploited it, AMERICANIZED it, then jumped on rap/disco/funk whatever radio crap.

Very very, typical of a band that wants to be successful.I guess I'm one of those weird punk kids who enjoys the music for the music. I guess I'm just not punk rock enough to base my musical tastes on the specific actions each band has taken. I guess I'm just a "shallow music fan."

lavazza
08-18-2008, 05:11 AM
But as much as I love you lavazza, I is tired of you bashing my Dolls. I love them so much, and far before I started posting on this forum. Seriously, how did they practice quantity over quality? They released two albums (three if you count the new one, but that's barely the same band), both of which were only 10 or 11 songs long. I mean, I don't wanna start an argument about opinions with you, haha, but what have you got against them?
Whatevz, we agree to disagree y'know, but why do you slam them in almost every thread you post in?

I was rather polemic in bashing the NY Dolls. But which is important they always sound to me like pure RnR. Like I when I first played a 12 bar Blues and this limits the varieties a different songs to........wait.........one! which was already done by Elvis, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry and your Stray Cats. Iīve listened to a NY Dolls bootleg from 2007 I think. On this tape they sound differently, not as on myspace, but like a common rock band, just not nearly as good as The Who, but nearly exactly like The Damned on Looking at you.
If you want this bootleg, donīt PM me.

Daydream_Goo
08-18-2008, 03:12 PM
Ohh man I completely disagree....amazing album, the only track I skip is The Card Cheat

Guns of Brixton is my favorite Clash song

mike2
08-18-2008, 03:16 PM
what pisses me off the most about the clash is that people will throw the sex pistols to the dogs because malcom mclaren said he put them together like a boy band, which was not the case, but no one seems to be angry at the clash because they were put together by bernie rhodes like a boy band...it is perposterous!

waterproofpie
08-18-2008, 03:20 PM
what pisses me off the most about the clash is that people will throw the sex pistols to the dogs because malcom mclaren said he put them together like a boy band, which was not the case, but no one seems to be angry at the clash because they were put together by bernie rhodes like a boy band...it is perposterous!


Arguement is null and void because the Clash's music didn't suck.


(Just kidding...)

But seriously, when you put it in that context, I remember that I enjoyed N*SYNC over Backstreet Boys because N*SYNC was catchier.

(...kind of)

BrianApocalypse
08-18-2008, 03:22 PM
Malcolm McLaren was stingy.

Bernie Rhoes was a full blown Jewish Stereotype.

mike2
08-18-2008, 03:24 PM
Arguement is null and void because the Clash's music didn't suck.


(Just kidding...)

But seriously, when you put it in that context, I remember that I enjoyed N*SYNC over Backstreet Boys because N*SYNC was catchier.

(...kind of)

the sex pistols > the clash

Rufiothebandito
08-18-2008, 04:02 PM
I'll agree that London Calling is overrated (I do love the album though) but I look at it the same way early "Heavy Metal" sounds, it's not all that heavy or interesting compared to how it has progressed and grown today.
So looking back on an album like London Calling when the genre was just learning to walk, it really stands out. In my opinion though, the punk genre doesn't always leave room for much progression or innovation, there's a formula amongst many punk bands. I'd say you have to look at it in the context of the time it was released, it might not stand up today for some people but it's a classic album and deserves respect for what it is.

lolmnt
08-18-2008, 04:09 PM
Arguement is null and void because the Clash's music didn't suck.


(Just kidding...)

But seriously, when you put it in that context, I remember that I enjoyed N*SYNC over Backstreet Boys because N*SYNC was catchier.

(...kind of)Your opinion is void because Backstreet Boys>NSYNC.

waterproofpie
08-18-2008, 04:11 PM
Your opinion is void because Backstreet Boys>NSYNC.


don't look at me.

lolmnt
08-18-2008, 04:27 PM
don't look at me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb-q1XPNr7M

waterproofpie
08-18-2008, 04:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb-q1XPNr7M


It's tearin' up my heart when I'm with you (talking about the Clash)

sargasm
08-18-2008, 08:15 PM
London Calling IS very poppy and accessible. There isn't really any room to deny that. That's why Rolling Stone and the wider music audience are able to get into it. You don't see Rolling Stone listing Amebix and Nausea records as the best albums of the 80's. LC is essentially a pop album.

It is a damn good pop album, but "overrated" doesn't even begin to describe it.

lp345
08-18-2008, 08:31 PM
But you see I love pop music...so my thinking its overrated has nothing to do with the album not being punk enough or whatever...its just filled with alot of weak songs. I think if they trimmed it down to a single LP it would have been much better

777Corey
08-18-2008, 10:04 PM
I think the Clash and Joe Strummer are overrated in general. Not nearly as much as say.. the Sex Pistols, but nonetheless.....

mbbmalcolm
08-18-2008, 10:04 PM
I for one, love London Calling. It along with Never Mind The Bollocks got me into punk (although I agree it is really more pop than punk). Although I think the Clash were a bit greedy and naive at times, I think the message they are spreading is basically right, and they are sincere about it, for the most part...

I don't find London Calling boring, and I would only call Lost In The Supermarket and Koka Kola filler. I really don't think they sold out with it, they just encompassed different musical genres that they really liked... In conclusion, I don't care if its pop and all that, I r=just enjoy the album a whole lot.

xX*Zeppelin*Xx
08-19-2008, 09:42 AM
^ am I the only one who loves Lost in the Supermarket?

lavazza
08-19-2008, 09:52 AM
no

HiImKindaNewAnd
08-19-2008, 09:55 AM
^ am I the only one who loves Lost in the Supermarket?
No, I really enjoy it to tell the truth

UMadeMeRealise
08-19-2008, 10:17 AM
I think London Calling is really good. IMO, the only weak song on it is "The Card Cheat." If you want an example of the Clash's excesses, look no further than Sandinista. Now that was a record that needed trimming.

lavazza
08-19-2008, 10:18 AM
I think London Calling is really good. IMO, the only weak song on it is "The Card Cheat." If you want an example of the Clash's excesses, look no further than Sandinista. Now that was a record that needed trimming.

Cut the Crap is deffenitely far worse

UMadeMeRealise
08-19-2008, 10:21 AM
^
Oh, I don't even consider that one a real Clash record. That abomination was just Bernie run amuck. For me, their career ends at Combat Rock.

lavazza
08-19-2008, 10:24 AM
^
Oh, I don't even consider that one a real Clash record. That abomination was just Bernie run amuck. For me, their career ends at Combat Rock.

I still think sandinista is ok in certain moods, itīs just totally crazy

UMadeMeRealise
08-19-2008, 10:28 AM
That one would have been an awesome single record, possibly their best. Or even a decent double.

HiImKindaNewAnd
08-19-2008, 10:35 AM
I still think sandinista is ok in certain moods, itīs just totally crazy
I can't listen to it in its entirety, but the first couple times I attempted to listen to it I had no idea what was going on. I guess that counts for something. And yeah, with a little editing, it would have been their best.

BrianApocalypse
08-20-2008, 08:22 AM
^
Oh, I don't even consider that one a real Clash record. That abomination was just Bernie run amuck. For me, their career ends at Combat Rock.

CTC wasn't poor just because of Bernie. Joe's songs on that record are extremely weak. They needed Mick.

lavazza
08-20-2008, 09:15 AM
CTC wasn't poor just because of Bernie. Joe's songs on that record are extremely weak. They needed Mick.

the first time we agree on something clash related

Against Him?
08-20-2008, 07:28 PM
I think london calling is ****in great. idk what you maen by weak filler songs? maybe like a couple at the end but jimmy jazz might be my favorite song on the album besides love in vain. the album is good and if you dontl ike it maybe you just dont like good music?

and it being pop has nothing to do with why people like it. people like good music the reason rolling stone doesnt pick up on aus-rotten records is because they suck. im sorry i like that **** but in the end it sucks and no one listens to it because its good musically, if being good musically means being pop and having people like you then yea I guess london calling is a pop album.

mbbmalcolm
08-20-2008, 09:39 PM
people like good music the reason rolling stone doesnt pick up on aus-rotten records is because they suck.

The Jonas Brothers were on Rolling Stones cover last month. Does that mean they are good?

neidnarb11890
08-20-2008, 09:46 PM
The Jonas Brothers were on Rolling Stones cover last month. Does that mean they are good?
Burned

. . .aus-rotten . . . suck.
:mad:

antianti99
08-20-2008, 09:52 PM
RS is irrelevent . They'll once in a while get something right and pick good music and the rest its trash. Whatever's on the cover of it is neither worse nor better for being there. But i would like to here what Leonheart and other ppl have to say after hearing it the first time. It'd be a lot better than listening to the same ppl who've either loved or hated it for years go on and on about it.

werty22
08-20-2008, 11:46 PM
I think london calling is ****in great. idk what you maen by weak filler songs? maybe like a couple at the end but jimmy jazz might be my favorite song on the album besides love in vain. the album is good and if you dontl ike it maybe you just dont like good music?

and it being pop has nothing to do with why people like it. people like good music the reason rolling stone doesnt pick up on aus-rotten records is because they suck. im sorry i like that **** but in the end it sucks and no one listens to it because its good musically, if being good musically means being pop and having people like you then yea I guess london calling is a pop album.
The reason aus-rotten isn't in Rolling Stone is that Rollng Stone is a pop/rock magazine. Aus-Rotten doesn't appeal to the masses. That doesn't mean they suck. I don't particularly care for them, for the record.

BrianApocalypse
08-21-2008, 12:19 PM
True, but aus rotten still suck.

MHDrunk
08-22-2008, 08:48 AM
how did aus-rotten come into this? read over the last page and still don't see how. nobody needed an example to illustrate that RS only covers the mainstream

hardrock1315
08-23-2008, 12:08 AM
I have to say I agree. I love some songs, but it does have a lot of filler.

recklessnick
08-23-2008, 02:54 AM
london calling was a **** album, imho
i liked the self-titled lp very much.
london calling just doesnt work for me. i cant see how its one of punk rock's most essential album as its hardly even punk

(...)
08-23-2008, 07:31 PM
i like the Clash but i honestly think any album of theirs has its share of weak filler songs.

Hello.Kitty
08-24-2008, 02:47 AM
I used to believe when I was like 15 in the words you guys so easy throw around 'filler songs.'

It is possible for a band to have songs that stand out more than others on an album.

mbbmalcolm
08-24-2008, 01:56 PM
i cant see how its one of punk rock's most essential album as its hardly even punk

I agree. I still like the album though.

axeslash
08-24-2008, 02:36 PM
I used to believe when I was like 15 in the words you guys so easy throw around 'filler songs.'

It is possible for a band to have songs that stand out more than others on an album.I would sig that but I've already got a fantastic sig I don't want to get rid of.

Iluvpowerchords
08-24-2008, 02:40 PM
I love that Primeapes so much...

Primeapes :haha

Dude is trying to sound so smart.

BrianApocalypse
08-24-2008, 02:48 PM
It is possible for a band to have songs that stand out more than others on an album.

According to my medical dictionary, these bands have a condition called "Really Fucking Rubbish".

antianti99
08-24-2008, 08:11 PM
Name one band who's songs are all equal in quality.
* Continues listening to Ramones S/T even tho its crappy due to 53rd and 3rd being slightly better than Chainsaw *

werty22
08-24-2008, 09:42 PM
Actually, if I had to choose an album whose songs are all equal, it would be the Ramones' S/T.

HiImKindaNewAnd
08-24-2008, 09:50 PM
^ :haha
In all honesty, its impossible for all of an album's songs to be equal in quality, but there's a world of difference between lesser songs and filler.

pwninator123
08-25-2008, 10:48 AM
i liked all the tracks except Clampdown

but i thought it was an amazing album...minus clampdown

lavazza
08-25-2008, 11:08 AM
^ :haha
In all honesty, its impossible for all of an album's songs to be equal in quality, but there's a world of difference between lesser songs and filler.

i bet you never listened to Live in a dive by the Subhumans, right?

HiImKindaNewAnd
08-25-2008, 11:25 AM
i bet you never listened to Live in a dive by the Subhumans, right?
You're right, I haven't, I've been meaning to get it

neidnarb11890
08-25-2008, 01:43 PM
i liked all the tracks except Clampdown

but i thought it was an amazing album...minus clampdown
You're kidding, right?

Clampdown's my favorite song off that album.

pwninator123
08-25-2008, 01:50 PM
You're kidding, right?

Clampdown's my favorite song off that album.


eh, it bugged me

lolmnt
08-25-2008, 03:13 PM
I love Clampdown.

Iluvpowerchords
08-25-2008, 03:17 PM
How could you not?

Love_Buzz
08-25-2008, 03:20 PM
I love Clampdown.
Same. But then I again I love pretty much all of London Calling.

*Is wearing a London Calling t-shirt right now*

general14lee
09-14-2008, 12:27 PM
london calling was a **** album, imho
i liked the self-titled lp very much.
london calling just doesnt work for me. i cant see how its one of punk rock's most essential album as its hardly even punk

That's kind of the point. It's an essential punk album because it expands the basic punk sound, which, let's be honest, you can't take very far, with a ton of genres. It's punk in philosophy and attitude without the musical restrictions of early punk. And an f'ing great album whichever way you look at it imo. Revolutionary, interesting, and not a boring song there. And don't even start talking about how it's "pop," the Ramones were pure pop in terms of their song structures and such.

Also, what's with all the hating on Lost in the Supermarket? That's my favorite song on the album.

Mav-16
09-14-2008, 02:53 PM
That's kind of the point. It's an essential punk album because it expands the basic punk sound, which, let's be honest, you can't take very far, with a ton of genres. It's punk in philosophy and attitude without the musical restrictions of early punk. And an f'ing great album whichever way you look at it imo. Revolutionary, interesting, and not a boring song there. And don't even start talking about how it's "pop," the Ramones were pure pop in terms of their song structures and such.

Also, what's with all the hating on Lost in the Supermarket? That's my favorite song on the album.

Probably cuz that's the worst song on the album??? :confused:

But London Calling has it's ups and downs to be honest, I looked at it in the way of the LP.

Side A is good, London Calling to Rudie Can't Fail, all good solid tracks.

Side B is crap, I ****ing hate that song Spanish Bombs, and the Right Profile is pretty stupid if you ask me (and pointless)

Lost in the Supermarket, I hate that song..... so

but it redeems itself with Clampdown and Guns of Brixton

Side C, well Wrong 'Em Boyo kind of reminds me of a little kids birthday party, that song is way too happy.

Death or Glory, best Clash song ever?? maybe???

Koka Kola crap,

Card Cheat, Crap

Side D is the worst... enough said.

Revolution Rock is an ok song (cover)

But for some reason I've always liked Train in Vain, when I first heard that song, my ex girlfriend broke up with me the night before (this is years ago) and I heard that song and pretty much just felt really connected with that song.

and now i got a job, and that bitch is still livin with her mommy lol

whyvern
09-14-2008, 03:46 PM
^ :haha
In all honesty, its impossible for all of an album's songs to be equal in quality, but there's a world of difference between lesser songs and filler.

You've never heard the RICE HARVESTER 7" or SURF NAZIS MUST DIE! have you? Because they're bands that only put out one thing and it was ****ing smokin' and they never looked back.

It happens all the time that an entire album is ****ing awesome. JACK PALANCE BAND's 'Get This Shit Underway' is completely solid the entire way through.


Also I like some some songs on 'London Calling' but I gotta say CRASS not CLASH!!! I mean ethically CRASS was the much better band and stuck to what they believed in... at least at the time. I'm sure they could've been on CBS too... actually anyone can do it there's just a window in time once you've built up momentum for you to do it in.... trust me, I know alot of people that have done it. All you have to do is tour alot and send yer music to everyone you can and eventually someone will put out yer record.


I gotta admit though that I love Koka Kola and Lost in the Supermarket though and I can't stand alot of the other songs on that album though like Brand New Cadillac.

werty22
09-14-2008, 03:53 PM
^I didn't think Revolution Rock was a cover. The album information in WMP says it was written by Strummer/Jones.

neidnarb11890
09-14-2008, 05:42 PM
^I didn't think Revolution Rock was a cover. The album information in WMP says it was written by Strummer/Jones.
*checks CD*

All tracks written by Strummer/Jones except 2 V. Taylor, 10 Paul Simonon, 11 C. Alphanso & 18 J. Edwards/D. Ray
18 being Revolution Rock.
I never knew that either.

JohnnyBlunders
09-14-2008, 08:35 PM
I agree. Its a good album, but its considered like the 8th best album ever. Cum on!
cwutididthere? I said cum.

J-Spoon
10-02-2008, 08:43 AM
It's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. But my opinion is you are wrong, people.

A great album, representing so much and as for filler songs... like what?

Perhaps your taste in music is different. To me, it's start with tension, moves into some brilliant rock and reggae, throws in some fantastic pop songs, then still with punkness, like in Death or Glory (he who ****s nuns will later join the church) and finishing on a top hidden track.

The Clash are a very special band who' story is a mix of mythology and frustration for their fans.

Iluvpowerchords
10-02-2008, 12:36 PM
I've revised my opinion.

Koka Kola is a nice song.

The only song I still really don't care for is Brand New Cadillac.

neidnarb11890
10-02-2008, 03:26 PM
I agree. Its a good album, but its considered like the 8th best album ever. Cum on!
cwutididthere? I said cum.
d00d, I had to read some old ballads for English, and they're written in Ye Olde English, and "come" is spelled "cum."

I lol'd.

axeslash
10-02-2008, 03:36 PM
d00d, I had to read some old ballads for English, and they're written in Ye Olde English, and "come" is spelled "cum."

I lol'd.Fantastico.

Simply fantastico.

IlikeTheSKA
10-03-2008, 01:47 AM
I agree with TS

mac_daddy
11-16-2009, 05:29 AM
Wow alot of hate for one of the best albums ever
seriously
theres not a bad song on the album
it was never meant to be punk
look past the songs not being musically punk rock
the songs are structured amazingly!
there lyrics are about as punk as it gets!

PsychoShoe
11-16-2009, 09:40 AM
"Oh my god! These guys can actually play now! This shit aint punx!!!11"

Fantastic album.

Kinkette
11-16-2009, 11:14 AM
You can't judge an enetire record on the 2 songs that you think are "filler". Espouse all you like about chord progressions, the Clash's obsession with doing right by the fans, or how The Clash dared to grow, from the 1st album to, yup...im gonna allow it...Combat Rock.
Seeing them LIVE was life changing, and I saw The Clash 3 nights at Bonds(where my fellow Ny'rs Kraut played their first show opening for them), The Pier, and before all of this, at age 12, The Palladium.
Seminal band, with or without any critical acclaim. Period. Btw, Hateful? Jimmy Jazz? Card Cheat?? You need to listen to the original vinyl again and tell me those weren't STELLAR f**king songs. Just sayin...
Kinkette

anarkee
11-16-2009, 11:34 AM
I think London Calling is really good. IMO, the only weak song on it is "The Card Cheat." If you want an example of the Clash's excesses, look no further than Sandinista. Now that was a record that needed trimming.

I agree. Really there isn't a clunker in site on London Calling, but Sandinista? Someone once said if they took the brilliance of that album and eliminated the filler, it would have been one of the best Clash albums ever.

I actually remember when London Calling came out in the States. To me, its a major road marker in music and I spent most of the summer of my 18th year listening to that album over and over again. Its a bit of a bridge between the early punk era of the 1970s and what was to come in the 80s.

lookpizza
11-16-2009, 03:16 PM
this seems like a really dumb thread for someone to bump....


also
lawlz at crass being better than the clash

SKAtastic7770
11-16-2009, 05:30 PM
Its funny that you say this about an album where every song is golden. Sandinista you might be able to make that argument with, but London Calling is amazing.

Edit: I didnt realize I was contributing to an ancient thread, sorry. Also I heard that Sandinista had so much filler because the clash wanted to release a quadruple album after all the hype around Springsteen's double album.

iwannabesedated
11-16-2009, 06:27 PM
London Calling is my favorite Clash album. Lots of interesting songs in it, the least not being the title track. Rudie Can't Fail, Lost in the Supermarket, Guns of Brixton, Revolution Rock, Train in Vain, all great songs.

nashawa
11-16-2009, 11:48 PM
Lover's Rock is a terrible, terrible song...

Iluvpowerchords
11-16-2009, 11:51 PM
I sing Lover's Rock in the shower all the time.

nashawa
11-16-2009, 11:58 PM
I sing Lover's Rock in the shower all the time.
I sing Rise Against tunes... Doesn't exactly make them a good band though.

neidnarb11890
11-17-2009, 12:05 AM
I sing Rise Against tunes... Doesn't exactly make them a good band though.
Well, nothing exactly makes anything good. :confus:

SuperBlob
11-17-2009, 12:11 AM
Well, nothing exactly makes anything good. :confus:
I make stuff good just by existing.

nashawa
11-17-2009, 12:20 AM
I make stuff good just by existing.
Impressive.

lp345
11-17-2009, 02:07 PM
Did this really need to be bumped?>_>

I still stand by my original post though :o

nashawa
11-17-2009, 02:13 PM
It absolutely didn't. But since it has resurfaced, I'll make it known that I love Koka Kola!

acid_eater
11-17-2009, 05:37 PM
london calling is a great album no question

jakesmellspoo
11-22-2009, 06:59 AM
It absolutely didn't. But since it has resurfaced, I'll make it known that I love Koka Kola!

me too. i think my top 3 from that album would be that, Death or Glory, and London Calling (in that order)