Gonzaw's Fridge Thread


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Dr. Venom
09-29-2008, 02:47 PM
I was wondering what`s more important to the music world nowadays...

Style: Meaning drummers like lars Ullrich or guitarists like kirk hammet dave mustaine etc. which arent the best in world at there instrument but still have that unique way of playing that amaze people like me... especialy live!!!!:peace: :headbang:

or

Perfectionism: Meaning musicians like yngwie malmsteen mike portnoy etc. which kick major ass on there instrumeant but just dont Give you that "Holy ****" moment if u know what i mean.... I've seen all of these guys live and i find metallica and megadeth way better the technical guys and bands.

Well I'd like to here some opinions on that, that would be cool...

P.S. I might have ****ed up some words cause my english isn't the best cause I'm from germany.






Freepower edit: please continue reading. The title makes sense, I promise.

jshwak
09-29-2008, 02:52 PM
one word, ...........Substance

Dr. Venom
09-29-2008, 02:53 PM
what do u mean with substance?

seljer
09-29-2008, 02:54 PM
lars -> doesn't have style, he just sucks :p:

kirk hammet -> wank E minor with your foot on a wah wah pedal

dave mustaine -> he does good riffs, he's :cool:

yngwie -> wank harmonic minor scales and do ninja kicks

mike portnoy -> just pure unadulterated awesome :cool:


there is worse technical wank out there than yngwie and dream theater


edit: ooh, substance, yeah, I'd say that

Dr. Venom
09-29-2008, 02:57 PM
i know it was just an example cause i've seen these guys live....

m4l666
09-29-2008, 02:59 PM
Technicality with style. Trivium, Megadeth, Dream Theater, etc. Lot of good stuff. At the moment, I'm trying to be a good player and not bother about attitude, but once I'm good, I'll start doing some awesome moves!!!

jshwak
09-29-2008, 02:59 PM
what I mean by substance is, for example.. two guitarist can play the same riff.. one may sound technically perfect.. but the other is emotional, both physically and tonally. Emotion invokes Emotion, and a great musician has more than just technical prowess, he's able to connect w/ you through music..

perfect example of someone who has no substance.. Yngwie

james4
09-29-2008, 03:01 PM
lars -> doesn't have style, he just sucks :p:

kirk hammet -> wank E minor with your foot on a wah wah pedal

dave mustaine -> he does good riffs, he's :cool:

yngwie -> wank harmonic minor scales and do ninja kicks

mike portnoy -> just pure unadulterated awesome :cool:


there is worse technical wank out there than yngwie and dream theater


edit: ooh, substance, yeah, I'd say that

my toughts exactly

Dr. Venom
09-29-2008, 03:03 PM
exactly what i mean :Thumbs up: @Jshawk

Capt_Clarkson
09-29-2008, 03:03 PM
perfect example of someone who has no substance.. Yngwie

+1

seljer
09-29-2008, 03:03 PM
what I mean by substance is, for example.. two guitarist can play the same riff.. one may sound technically perfect.. but the other is emotional, both physically and tonally. Emotion invokes Emotion, and a great musician has more than just technical prowess, he's able to connect w/ you through music..

perfect example of someone who has no substance.. Yngwie

Yngwie is alright

this is no substance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4MrEtV8zSE

2mins2midnite
09-29-2008, 03:03 PM
what I mean by substance is, for example.. two guitarist can play the same riff.. one may sound technically perfect.. but the other is emotional, both physically and tonally. Emotion invokes Emotion, and a great musician has more than just technical prowess, he's able to connect w/ you through music..

perfect example of someone who has no substance.. Yngwie

how dare!
black star and far beyond the sun has loads of "substance" and has emotion

2mins2midnite
09-29-2008, 03:06 PM
has anyone got a band with perfectionism and substance, and not trivium cause they sound like all other 14 yr old metal bands
i mean like wintersun etc

jshwak
09-29-2008, 03:07 PM
Yngwie is alright

this is no substance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4MrEtV8zSE





Excellent Example.. I'll stand corrected !

GuitarMunky
09-29-2008, 03:17 PM
I was wondering what`s more important to the music world nowadays...

Style: Meaning drummers like lars Ullrich or guitarists like kirk hammet dave mustaine etc. which arent the best in world at there instrument but still have that unique way of playing that amaze people like me... especialy live!!!!:peace: :headbang:

or

Perfectionism: Meaning musicians like yngwie malmsteen mike portnoy etc. which kick major ass on there instrumeant but just dont Give you that "Holy shit" moment if u know what i mean.... I've seen all of these guys live and i find metallica and megadeth way better the technical guys and bands.

Well I'd like to here some opinions on that, that would be cool...

P.S. I might have ****ed up some words cause my english isn't the best cause I'm from germany.

Well you are part of the "music world" as much as anyone here. So the real question is: whats important to YOU.

gonzaw
09-29-2008, 03:26 PM
Well, their style has to come from somewhere, whether their guitar tone, their dynamics, phrasing, whatever (improvisation or not).

Yngwie and others may play with more "technique" (nowadays only means playing faster and cleaner though), and may not enphasise dynamics and phrasing, making them sound not as interesting as others who do....

Dr. Venom
09-29-2008, 03:30 PM
Well you are part of the "music world" as much as anyone here. So the real question is: whats important to YOU.

Well i already said what is improtant to me. Substance as they named in the first post.... but i wanted to know what the majority thinks.
Because it seems to as if Technique is becoming more important than true substance.

seljer
09-29-2008, 03:41 PM
Well i already said what is improtant to me. Substance as they named in the first post.... but i wanted to know what the majority thinks.
Because it seems to as if Technique is becoming more important than true substance.

power chords are as big as ever

PenFighter19
09-29-2008, 03:45 PM
tech=/=substance

and really, I dont give a sh*t how good, technical, or flashy you are. Just make that sh*t rock. Thats all that matters

ZombieCat
09-29-2008, 05:20 PM
Just make that sh*t rock. Thats all that matters

Just make that sh*t rock. Thats all that matters

I had to quote that twice because in my book that is all that matters.

PenFighter19
09-29-2008, 05:26 PM
From Mozart to Buckethead to Pete Townsend to Kurt Cobain, just make that sh*t rock.

metallicafan616
09-29-2008, 05:34 PM
i find emotion in all of yngwies peices and the francesco song too. i can sit there bending a note, playing sloppily and call it emotion but i prefer to be able to play what i want to play perfectly

gonzaw
09-29-2008, 07:37 PM
tech=/=substance

and really, I dont give a sh*t how good, technical, or flashy you are. Just make that sh*t rock. Thats all that matters

So fecal matter does actually petrify?
I'll have to try that....

se012101
09-29-2008, 08:15 PM
Substance of course. If I have to choose between someone playing a simple riff well that sounds bad ass, and someone thats technically amazing but uncreative, then I'll choose the bad ass riff anyday.

However, you can have both, and that is what impresses me the most as a guitarist and music enjoyer. Michael Romeo, Paul Gilbert, and Chuck Schuldiner (not quite in the same class as the first two, but still highly skilled) are great examples of extremely skilled guitarists who have/had a lot to say musically through their use of the instrument.

rizo299
09-30-2008, 09:34 AM
I get " HOLY FREAKING AWESOME" moments from mike portnoy all the time, as with most of the guys from dream theater.


Its called taste, people have different ones to you.

Freepower
09-30-2008, 10:20 AM
^ exactly. Threadstarter, you are a fool. :p:

What you're calling style is your taste, whereas technique is how you physically play the instrument. Of course, the more you get into your instrument, the more you will discuss "technique" - especially on a guitar website - that's why it seems so prominent. Most people who seem like a technique nut simply wants to be able to create technically demanding music. It doesn't mean they don't have "style". :p:

Andy_Mclaughlan
09-30-2008, 12:21 PM
I got to disagree. To me 2 of the guitarists with the most 'magical' moments are Shawn Lane and Jason Becker. Both played perfect and could play at uber speeds( Lane leaving everyone in the dust of course with the speed thing lol), but both conveyed lots and lots of emotion and are more magical to me than Kirk Hammet, Lars Ulrich and Dave Mustaine. the latter being the only one of the three whom I actually consider proficient seen as Lars Ulrich cant play for shit and Kirk Hammett is on that same wavelength. I may get slated for saying that but thats just my opinion.
Andy

GuitarMunky
09-30-2008, 12:23 PM
^ its all a matter of opinion ..... period.

Freepower
09-30-2008, 12:53 PM
:facepalm:

What is emotion? Mmmm?

z4twenny
09-30-2008, 01:36 PM
I seen as Lars Ulrich cant play for shit and Kirk Hammett is on that same wavelength

huh? what? yes, lars is a total drum noob he can barely hold a beat together and kirk sounds like he's been playing for 1 month. /sarcasm

i can't play nearly as good as hammet so i should probably just give up playing guitar huh. :rolleyes:

The_Sophist
09-30-2008, 02:43 PM
Why is this still an argument, Freepower's post covered everything, and it's all opinion anyway.

Freepower
09-30-2008, 03:37 PM
^ because if you claim anybody plays with more emotion than anybody else, there's always a huge argument because people can't accept that other people may have totally valid viewpoints.


Like that Kirk Hammet sucks. :p:


I'll close this if it gets silly, worthwhile posts are welcome.

GuitarMunky
09-30-2008, 03:40 PM
^ because if you claim anybody plays with more emotion than anybody else, there's always a huge argument because people can't accept that other people may have totally valid viewpoints.


Like that Kirk Hammet sucks. :p:


I'll close this if it gets silly, worthwhile posts are welcome.


I think it was silly from the start. ;)

there is no right answer its all opinion.

Zakk_Lp
09-30-2008, 04:04 PM
The way i see it is most people go to gigs (If were talking rock/Metal) to be entertained rather than to sit back and take in the music.

The_Sophist
09-30-2008, 04:09 PM
What's the difference. Music was designed to entertain, and this argument is just over which way is better for it, "emotion" or "technique". The fact of the matter is, neither way is "better", because music simply cannot be better then other music, it's just someone or a number of peoples opinion, which holds no merit over the opinions of others.

Freepower
09-30-2008, 05:06 PM
The way i see it is most people go to gigs (If were talking rock/Metal) to be entertained rather than to sit back and take in the music.
I'm going to assume you mean widdly guitar technique =/= a good show.
Stage presence is improved by technique, imo. The ability to easily play your material is important if you want to look cool in any genre. :p: Look at Steve Vai's gigs. The man has monstrous energy and stage presence and widdles constantly. :)

z4twenny
09-30-2008, 05:25 PM
there is no right answer its all opinion.

this... this is right.

bangoodcharlote
09-30-2008, 05:45 PM
Oh, fuck, another one of these.

The two are not mutually exclusive. Please listen to the "Tornado of Souls" solo or some of Dream Theater's work.

Speedy music has been around for hundreds of years. It's only when it's an distorted guitar that people bitch and moan.

I also don't get why one would want to not be as good as possible at the guitar. Why wouldn't you want to be perfect?

*Reported*

Mods: Can we please get an official ban of "speed vs. feeling" threads, even when they have clever titles?

Retro Rocker
09-30-2008, 05:55 PM
I'm going to assume you mean widdly guitar technique =/= a good show.
Stage presence is improved by technique, imo. The ability to easily play your material is important if you want to look cool in any genre. :p: Look at Steve Vai's gigs. The man has monstrous energy and stage presence and widdles constantly. :)
Steve is no mere man :p:

Until someone explains to me which sequence of notes conveys the sad feeling of going to the fridge and not finding the tasty beef strips I was looking for, I'll have to pass off the 'emotion' argument as a bullshit excuse for avoiding hard work.

GuitarMunky
09-30-2008, 06:02 PM
Oh, fuck, another one of these.

*Reported*
:haha



Speedy music has been around for hundreds of years. It's only when it's an distorted guitar that people bitch and moan.

Well there is a reason that shredders get the "no feeling" label. It may be unfair to a certain degree, but there is some substance to the stereo type.

Zakk_Lp
09-30-2008, 06:28 PM
The thing with the majority of shreaders is that although there stuff goes to the feel of the song there thinking about what there playing to much and not really feeling what there playing if that makes sence to anyone. Well thats only IMO.

Freepower
09-30-2008, 07:12 PM
Mods: Can we please get an official ban of "speed vs. feeling" threads, even when they have clever titles?

Yes. This is the last one. Everyone make their clever comments now, and I'll compile them in a sticky in the shred forum.


Until someone explains to me which sequence of notes conveys the sad feeling of going to the fridge and not finding the tasty beef strips I was looking for, I'll have to pass off the 'emotion' argument as a bullshit excuse for avoiding hard work.

I hope you'll like this piece, just had to write it.

The lyrics are

" :D Oh, I just cannot wait to get some tasty beef strips,
:D Oh, I just cannot wait to get some tasty beef strips,
:( Oh..."

Sorry for the rather difficult melody to sing, but I was in a hurry. I also would like to add a sigh-like quality with a note, as can be acheived on a real saxophone - but not midi, unfortunately. :(

gonzaw
09-30-2008, 07:13 PM
The thing with the majority of shreaders is that although there stuff goes to the feel of the song there thinking about what there playing to much and not really feeling what there playing if that makes sence to anyone. Well thats only IMO.

I "feel" what I play, but I suck...
And you would not want to hear it whether it has "feeling" or not
(okay maybe I am being too humble, I rock)...

Yes. This is the last one. Everyone make their clever comments now, and I'll compile them in a sticky in the shred forum.



I hope you'll like this piece, just had to write it.

The lyrics are

" :D Oh, I just cannot wait to get some tasty beef strips,
:D Oh, I just cannot wait to get some tasty beef strips,
:( Oh..."

Sorry for the rather difficult melody to sing, but I was in a hurry. I also would like to add a sigh-like quality with a note, as can be acheived on a real saxophone - but not midi, unfortunately. :(

I dunno, I thought it would be something more like this:

se012101
09-30-2008, 08:26 PM
Yes. This is the last one. Everyone make their clever comments now, and I'll compile them in a sticky in the shred forum.



I hope you'll like this piece, just had to write it.

The lyrics are

" :D Oh, I just cannot wait to get some tasty beef strips,
:D Oh, I just cannot wait to get some tasty beef strips,
:( Oh..."

Sorry for the rather difficult melody to sing, but I was in a hurry. I also would like to add a sigh-like quality with a note, as can be acheived on a real saxophone - but not midi, unfortunately. :(


Haha! I laughed my ass off. At the original beef strips comment too. This is now officially a "good thread". In my opinion anyway.

Freepower
09-30-2008, 08:35 PM
*dies laughing at gonzaw's amazing piece*

Well, that's worth hijacking the thread for.

grampastumpy
09-30-2008, 08:36 PM
There is no damn "emotion"-technique spectrum. Yes, some people use insane technique without really caring much what they're playing. They do not represent the whole of musicians with superior technical ability.

GuitarMunky
09-30-2008, 08:39 PM
There is no damn "emotion"-technique spectrum. Yes, some people use insane technique without really caring much what they're playing. They do not represent the whole of musicians with superior technical ability.

I agree. Guitarists that play fast don't represent the whole of musicians with superior technical ability either. :)

Freepower
09-30-2008, 08:41 PM
*speed vs emotion thread closed*

*gonzaw's fridge thread opened*



<.<


>.>

se012101
09-30-2008, 08:41 PM
*dies laughing at gonzaw's amazing piece*

Well, that's worth hijacking the thread for.

The gunshot at the end is classic. Listening to Gonzaw's piece was literally the funniest thing that has happened to me all month. While listening I could almost see the empty fridge, and feel the terrible sadness at the fact that I have come to the fridge for some tasty beef strips, but there are no tasty beef strips.

Freepower
09-30-2008, 08:48 PM
Indeed. Hence the thread title. I woke my gf up with my laughing, seriously. To answer Gonzaw's original question, the note that I felt conveyed disappointment at lack of beef strips best was C#. However, from Gonzaw's composition we can see more notes = better. :( I will attempt to take this to its logical shred guitar conclusion and borrow Gonzaw's form. :p:

gonzaw
09-30-2008, 10:01 PM
You have to understand, the disappointment of not finding tasty beef strips in the fridge is to great to be represented with a simple C#.
A pitch can't convey the huge emotion and depression this man feels, I mean, I HAD TO F***ING CHANGE KEYS MAN! This is serious business, if you want to convey an emotion, you have to do it as real as possible.
I don't know if you know how it really feels to be in this man's situation, but I do, and let me tell you, I have tied so many hangman's nooses that I almost remember the procedure by heart.



:p:

Thanks for the comments though, I did it in a rush so some harmonies are not that great, and the vocals suck, but whatever :p:

Freepower
09-30-2008, 10:03 PM
Well, I suppose if Dragonforce had to go through the same agonising situation, it would sound something like this. Please, feel free to add to this slightly less pretentious version of Archeo's composition thread.

Gonzaw's still the best so far. :haha :haha :haha

EDIT: Ahh, it seems Dragonforce forgot to change key. They obviously had not expected beef strips as excellent as yours clearly are when they are in the fridge.

Don't leave this world Gonzaw - continue to compose about your pain, and I shall give your fridge hundreds of beef strips.

Thereby creating writers block, I suppose. :(

gonzaw
09-30-2008, 11:00 PM
:haha


I made another one, with a slightly different point of view

Myung-trucci
10-01-2008, 02:38 AM
Emotion cant exist without technique.
Technique can exist without emotion.

How can you express yourself on guitar without any technique?

Freepower
10-01-2008, 08:51 AM
:haha


I made another one, with a slightly different point of view

That one was epic too. :p: You know your way around a GP, sir. :haha

Confusius
10-01-2008, 09:03 AM
I like making (or trying to make) music that sounds good to my ears. If that involves playing more or less notes in the same beat then I'll comply with what my ears want.

TheShred201
10-01-2008, 10:02 AM
:haha

This thread is full of win...or maybe full of loss(t beef strips....)

:headbang: :headbang:
One for each of you :p: