how do i get rid of tendonitis??? for good..?


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TORSION
10-15-2008, 07:38 AM
yes i have tendonitis in both wrists.
i havent played for around 4 weeks now..
this is the second time ive had it. last time i did physio and ended up not playing for a few months..
it went away for a bit, but came back..

i really want to be able to play again, as its basically all i do..
i also want to be able to work out, but i dont mind if i have to give that up.
i also do karate now, but i dont think that hurts them too much..

the main pain causer i think is my work..
i am an apprentice electrician and i have to pull cables all day, which puts alot of strain on my wrists. i cant exactly quit.. but if it means being able to play again, i will definately think about it.

guitar is also a big cause i think.. i play metal music and was working alot on legato, alternate picking sweeping, all that sort of stuff.. is this an indication that i am doing something wrong? too much tension or something?

its really getting me down not being able to play anymore, what can i do to get rid of this bloody thing once and for all?

cheers guys :(

sbikram
10-15-2008, 09:24 AM
guitar is also a big cause i think.. i play metal music and was working alot on legato, alternate picking sweeping, all that sort of stuff.. is this an indication that i am doing something wrong? too much tension or something?



i dont really know about the electrician stuff, but for guitar i really think you have too much tension in your wrists...
dont practice all at once,...
keep taking breaks..

lexieangel
10-15-2008, 10:29 AM
try doing some small strech excerices on your wrists, this will teach your muscles to relax again.
try making your wrist go floppy, then slowly tighten your fingers to make a fist shape. do this 10 times on each hand :) (one hand at a time)
itll help a little :) it did when i had somthing wrong with my wrist :) .... because by making a fist your loosing lots of little muscles at once! xxxx

gutsman
10-15-2008, 10:40 AM
I'd really advise for you to see a doctor and follow his advice. not saying people here can't contribute with issues like these but you really want to make sure you're doing the right thing and not messing up your wrists more.

GuitarMunky
10-15-2008, 11:00 AM
yes i have tendonitis in both wrists.
i havent played for around 4 weeks now..
this is the second time ive had it. last time i did physio and ended up not playing for a few months..
it went away for a bit, but came back..

i really want to be able to play again, as its basically all i do..
i also want to be able to work out, but i dont mind if i have to give that up.
i also do karate now, but i dont think that hurts them too much..

the main pain causer i think is my work..
i am an apprentice electrician and i have to pull cables all day, which puts alot of strain on my wrists. i cant exactly quit.. but if it means being able to play again, i will definately think about it.

guitar is also a big cause i think.. i play metal music and was working alot on legato, alternate picking sweeping, all that sort of stuff.. is this an indication that i am doing something wrong? too much tension or something?

its really getting me down not being able to play anymore, what can i do to get rid of this bloody thing once and for all?

cheers guys :(

Whether you get better for good or not depends on a lot of factors. There are a lot of things you have to give up for awhile if you really want to heal, but if you do things right you're likely to get most of them back. I would highly recommend taking a look at this program, as well as seeing a doctor.

http://www.selfcare4rsi.com/

z4twenny
10-15-2008, 11:11 AM
^ Gutsman and Guitarmunky are pretty much dead on. Get to a Dr. and follow whatever regimen they give no matter how much it sucks. cuz music is what you love right? and you'd do anything for something you love (at least thats how i view music)

as for your guitar technique being a cause of tendonitis i would consider that as a possibility. if you can afford to get a classically trained teacher to correct any technique error i highly recommend it. if nothing else watch ALOT of youtube of some of the masters and pay very close attention to everything they do, you will surely notice "oh hey, my hand isn't angled like that" or "he's holding his fingers/hand/pick etc differently than i am". taking breaks while practicing is also suggested. i'm not sure how often on end you practice, i will say that eventually you will get to a point where playing for 2 hours straight will be no big deal. but that is definitely something you build into and generally takes awhile to get there. lastly, if you anchor please stop. i don't know if you do but i know it directly affects carpal tunnel and i think it may also affect arthritis and i wouldn't be terribly surprised if it also affects tendonitis.

Paquijón
10-15-2008, 07:16 PM
Go to a doctor ASAP. If taking a break from guitar for a while is recommended, by all means, do it! In the mean time learn a different instrument and buff up on your music theory. Just because you can't play guitar doesn't mean you are completely cut off from producing and enjoying music.

axemanchris
10-15-2008, 07:40 PM
+1 on the doctor thing. That is really your ONLY option.

Tendonitis can be treated, and may have the symptoms minimized, but it is often very difficult, if not impossible to cure it. A friend of mine even went through surgery, and another friend of mine went through two surgeries... no dice.

With tendonitis, the best offense is a good defense.

CT

GuitarMunky
10-15-2008, 08:10 PM
+1 on the doctor thing. That is really your ONLY option.

Tendonitis can be treated, and may have the symptoms minimized, but it is often very difficult, if not impossible to cure it. A friend of mine even went through surgery, and another friend of mine went through two surgeries... no dice.

With tendonitis, the best offense is a good defense.

CT
Well actually, there are other options. if you have insurance, and or have enough money you definitely do want to see a doctor though, at least to get a diagnosis, But if he starts talking surgery right away or even cortisone shots I highly recommend looking into some other methods. From everything I've heard, those are last resorts that have low success rates and often make for a weaker recovery. of course if your injury is progressed to the point where you are in constant pain, they may be the right option for you.

One thing I know for sure, is that the people who have tendinitis really bad and never lose it, are the people that don't give themselves a break and continue working as if they don't have it. It's tough because you have to make a living, but if you can find any way to take a break that break just may allow you to recover.

I would do some research. Look into holistic approaches, like massage therapy or things like acupuncture. A friend of mine who has carpal tunnel has been going to massage therapy and says he has no problems now playing the guitar or using his hands in general. While this is a serious thing, don't psych yourself out, having a positive attitude is very important towards healing. A lot of people do in fact recover from tendinitis, sometimes fully. Focus on the positive stories, not the negative.

Again, I strongly recommend this program.

http://www.selfcare4rsi.com/

There is a lot you can learn from it and I'm sure you will find it helpful.

Archeo Avis
10-15-2008, 08:37 PM
or things like acupuncture.

Why not try bloodletting while you're at it?

GuitarMunky
10-15-2008, 08:46 PM
Why not try bloodletting while you're at it?

http://www.somaacupuncture.com/tendonitis.htm

you know of any places that treat tendonitis with bloodletting?

Archeo Avis
10-15-2008, 08:50 PM
http://www.somaacupuncture.com/tendonitis.htm

you know of any places that treat tendonitis with bloodletting?

The point is both are ridiculous concepts with no supporting evidence. Acupuncture consistently fails to deliver even marginal results in properly designed double blinded trials.

GuitarMunky
10-15-2008, 08:59 PM
The point is both are ridiculous concepts with no supporting evidence. Acupuncture consistently fails to deliver even marginal results in properly designed double blinded trials.

talk about things you know about. This isn't one of them.

Archeo Avis
10-15-2008, 09:01 PM
talk about things you know about. This isn't one of them.

This is generally the point where you would produce properly designed studies demonstrating the efficacy of the treatment you're recommending. Not only does it consistently fail to perform any better than sham acupuncture, but there's no possible mechanism by which it could work. Recommending useless treatments to people is dangerous.

GuitarMunky
10-15-2008, 09:13 PM
This is generally the point where you would produce properly designed studies demonstrating the efficacy of the treatment you're recommending. Not only does it consistently fail to perform any better than sham acupuncture, but there's no possible mechanism by which it could work.

The recommendation was to look into things. The things I mentioned are things I've become aware of either through personal experience, word-of-mouth, or things I've read about. I don't advocate any one method. I'm not a doctor, it's not my place to do that.

Putting things down that you know nothing about and making smart ass remarks isn't helpful to anyone, and really is inappropriate for a topic as serious as this. So why don't you offer some real advice or stfu.

Archeo Avis
10-16-2008, 12:47 AM
Putting things down that you know nothing about and making smart ass remarks isn't helpful to anyone, and really is inappropriate for a topic as serious as this. So why don't you offer some real advice or stfu.

You advised him to look into a useless treatment for a medical condition. That's dangerous. Someone had to call you on it. I do happen to be extremely familiar with research surrounding acupuncture, by the way. Even if I wasn't, the burden of proof is on you to support your claims.

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 01:34 AM
You advised him to look into a useless treatment for a medical condition. That's dangerous. Someone had to call you on it. I do happen to be extremely familiar with research surrounding acupuncture, by the way. Even if I wasn't, the burden of proof is on you to support your claims.

You don't have a clue about tendinitis, or acupuncture, you are just a smart ass punk looking for an argument. I've got better things to do, so please, stop being an idiot. Post something useful, and relevant, or don't say anything at all.

pandora_grunt
10-16-2008, 03:24 AM
GuitarMunky watch-out with those claims. That's where YOUR inner PUNK comes out.

Archeo might actually do have a clue about this shit.

However, I am an your side Munk. Where-as it may not have been proven. Undergoing acupuncture may work in a physical way somehow or the other, but mostly mental. I'm nto an expert but I've heard stories abotu how it releaves stress.

I'd like to add that yoru mental state does influence your physical state. it is connected. I speak out of personal experiences, between me, my family and friends.

Acupuncture probably works liek a placebo or something, but you have to know your gettin treated. You relax as yoru open to the treatment, and yoru chance of recovery (or supression of disease/condition at hand) are therefor enhanced.

As one last note: this discussion si endless because in reality we don't know jack shit abotu the human body, just the tip of the iceberg. The day we fully comprehend the human brain, is the day we might can have a full-of-facts-discussion about this matter.

-------------------------------------------------

On topic: Go see a doctor, look into not as rigourous alternative manners of "healing." And think positive my friend. It helps

RichieJovie
10-16-2008, 03:39 AM
Go to the DR.
You may end up with a Hydro Cortisone injection to relieve the pain. ( this hurts like feck)

I have now been 6-7 months without pain and think I may be over my last bout.

Generally this is triggered by over straining and not warming up properly.

So for now, rest it, see the Doc, try to not over strain and grit your teeth if you get the injection cos it really fecking hurts.

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 10:18 AM
GuitarMunky watch-out with those claims. That's where YOUR inner PUNK comes out.

Archeo might actually do have a clue about this shit.

umm no dude. People that have a clue offer information, not smart ass remarks.

Don't tell me to watch out with those claims. If you actually read my post you will see that...... I MADE NO CLAIMS. Please, read before posting and making false accusations.

regarding acupuncture, I just listed it as 1 of many alternatives that people try. My POINT was that there are alternatives worth looking into..... thats it. LOOKING INTO means just that. YOU (the TS).... researches it and decides what is right for him.

I offered ideas based on what I've heard & know. It's amazing that you cant do that here without some immature jackass turning it into one these typical UG pointless arguments.

Go to the DR.
You may end up with a Hydro Cortisone injection to relieve the pain. ( this hurts like feck)

I have now been 6-7 months without pain and think I may be over my last bout.

Generally this is triggered by over straining and not warming up properly.

So for now, rest it, see the Doc, try to not over strain and grit your teeth if you get the injection cos it really fecking hurts.

You have tendonitis ?

Belgarion89
10-16-2008, 10:20 AM
I have tennis elbow in my right arm from too much computer, and occasionally it gives me pain and cracks when I fully extend it. Towards the end of my Army Basic Training it flared into tendinitis fairly bad, but with treatment went away for good after a few days. First step is go see a doctor, he'll know more than anyone on this forum (unless there are some doctors looking here) and will be able to diagnose you more correctly. He'll also know good exercises and stretching, as well as maybe give you some medication (I was given just regular ibuprofen) to help with the pain. Before you get there, put some ice on it, that'll help the pain and the swelling.

FERG93
10-16-2008, 12:21 PM
I had tendinitis in my knee once. I don't know if it's any different in the wrist, but what I did was ace-wrap a ziploc bag of ice to my knee, with a rag between the bag and my knee. I know it would really get in the way when it's on your wrist, but keep it on there for a few hours.

RichieJovie
10-16-2008, 12:23 PM
umm no dude. People that have a clue offer information, not smart ass remarks.

Don't tell me to watch out with those claims. If you actually read my post you will see that...... I MADE NO CLAIMS. Please, read before posting and making false accusations.

regarding acupuncture, I just listed it as 1 of many alternatives that people try. My POINT was that there are alternatives worth looking into..... thats it. LOOKING INTO means just that. YOU (the TS).... researches it and decides what is right for him.

I offered ideas based on what I've heard & know. It's amazing that you cant do that here without some immature jackass turning it into one these typical UG pointless arguments.



You have tendonitis ?
Yup I've had it.

It seems to be under control at present.

Both hands.

Archeo Avis
10-16-2008, 04:43 PM
Acupuncture probably works liek a placebo or something, but you have to know your gettin treated. You relax as yoru open to the treatment, and yoru chance of recovery (or supression of disease/condition at hand) are therefor enhanced.

That's exactly why it works, as evidenced by the fact that sham acupuncture shows just as much benefit.

Don't tell me to watch out with those claims. If you actually read my post you will see that...... I MADE NO CLAIMS. Please, read before posting and making false accusations.

regarding acupuncture, I just listed it as 1 of many alternatives that people try. My POINT was that there are alternatives worth looking into..... thats it. LOOKING INTO means just that. YOU (the TS).... researches it and decides what is right for him.

I offered ideas based on what I've heard & know. It's amazing that you cant do that here without some immature jackass turning it into one these typical UG pointless arguments.

You told him to look into a useless and potentially dangerous treatment for an illness. That's as good as a recommendation. What you did was dangerous and someone had to point it out. Suck it up.

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 05:26 PM
That's exactly why it works, as evidenced by the fact that sham acupuncture shows just as much benefit.


You told him to look into a useless and potentially dangerous treatment for an illness. That's as good as a recommendation. What you did was dangerous and someone had to point it out. Suck it up.


^ :rolleyes:
there is no danger in making people aware of the various ways that people are finding relief from tendinitis. Your making a mountain out of a molehill.

if you read my post carefully ( and take the time to comprehend it) you'll see that the only thing I recommended ( notice the words " I recommend" are only used in this one instance) was: http://www.selfcare4rsi.com/
the only thing that's "as good as a recommendation" is an actual recommendation. making someone aware of something is not the same thing.



BTW arch, have you had any personal experience with tendinitis ?


Yup I've had it.

It seems to be under control at present.

Both hands.

Well I'm glad you have it under control.

A guy that I played in a band with has had carpal tunnel for about 10 years. Unfortunately it has only gotten worse, despite numerous treatments from doctors. I don't think that he's really given himself the rest that he needs though. What happens with a lot of people, is that they get the cortisone shot and start feeling better, then go right back to what they were doing and end up causing worse and more permanent damage.

another friend of mine with carpal tunnel has been going to massage therapy for the last few months and says he's "cured". He plays gigs all the time and just recorded a CD, and apparently is having no problems. it's nice to know that some people can recover and get back to doing what they love. :)

standupnfall
10-16-2008, 05:27 PM
I had tendinitis in my knee once. I don't know if it's any different in the wrist, but what I did was ace-wrap a ziploc bag of ice to my knee, with a rag between the bag and my knee. I know it would really get in the way when it's on your wrist, but keep it on there for a few hours.


Never Ice or heat anything for more than 10-20 min :no:

Archeo Avis
10-16-2008, 06:02 PM
BTW arch, have you had any personal experience with tendinitis ?

Yes, though that has no bearing whatsoever on the efficacy of the treatment your suggesting.

there is no danger in making people aware of the various ways that people are finding relief from tendinitis.

Bringing up treatments with no benefit whatsoever is dangerous, yes. All treatments have risks. The reason we use them is because the benefits often outweigh those risks. When a treatment, such as acupuncture, displays no benefit whatsoever, any degree of risk is completely unacceptable and dangerous. Would you support me if I "just made a cancer patient aware" of the fact some people claim to find relief from abandoning chemotherapy in favor of the ingestion of arsenic? Of course, I'd conveniently fail to mention that arsenic has no established benefit whatsoever, and that the dangers far outweigh any benefits. But it's ok, because mentioning a dangerous and useless treatment only in the context of the claimed benefits isn't a "recommendation".

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 06:09 PM
Yes, though that has no bearing whatsoever on the efficacy of the treatment your suggesting.



Bringing up treatments with no benefit whatsoever is dangerous, yes. All treatments have risks. The reason we use them is because the benefits often outweigh those risks. When a treatment, such as acupuncture, displays no benefit whatsoever, any degree of risk is completely unacceptable and dangerous.


Dude, get past the acupuncture thing. you make it sound like my whole post was an endorsement of acupuncture. It clearly was not, it was mentioned as one thing that people are using to find relief. I did not personally endorse it in any way. The point of my post was to make the TS aware that there are options, and that people are finding relief through a number of different methods.

if I had said, don't go see a doctor, go get acupuncture instead, then your response would be somewhat justified. Not your smartest remark though. If you actually gave some advice and explained from experience exactly why acupuncture won't work, and then explained clearly what would be better, I could deal with that. but you instead just gave smartest remarks, and then blew the whole thing out of proportion. I think you need to suck up to that.

BTW, how did you treat your tendinitis? I think that information would be a lot more helpful. why don't you share it with us?

Archeo Avis
10-16-2008, 06:12 PM
Dude, get past the acupuncture thing. you make it sound like my whole post was an endorsement of acupuncture. It clearly was not, it was mentioned as one thing that people are using to find relief. I did not personally endorse it in any way.

I just pointed out that is was a completely useless treatment. You're the one who threw a bitch fit in response.

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 06:17 PM
Yes, though that has no bearing whatsoever on the efficacy of the treatment your suggesting.



Bringing up treatments with no benefit whatsoever is dangerous, yes. All treatments have risks. The reason we use them is because the benefits often outweigh those risks. When a treatment, such as acupuncture, displays no benefit whatsoever, any degree of risk is completely unacceptable and dangerous.


Dude, get past the acupuncture thing. you make it sound like my whole post was an endorsement of acupuncture. It clearly was not, it was mentioned as one thing that people are using to find relief. I did not personally endorse it in any way. The point of my post was to make the TS aware that there are options, and that people are finding relief through a number of different methods.



I just pointed out that is was a completely useless treatment. You're the one who threw a bitch fit in response.

You offered nothing but smart ass remarks, I wasn't about to put up with it. I respond respectfully to those that are respectful. I have a harder time with immaturity.

so again, how did you treat your tendinitis? how long did you have tendinitis for? do you still have it or are you fully recovered?

I think the TS would find these answers helpful.

Lumberjackted11
10-16-2008, 07:59 PM
i got tendonitis in my left wrist once, but it was from curling too much. Luckily though, it didnt affect my guitar playing much.

Archeo Avis
10-16-2008, 09:49 PM
You miss the point entirely, don't you? That doesn't surprise me. Someone asked for advice regarding an injury, and you pointed him towards a completely useless and potentially dangerous treatment. It doesn't matter that your entire God damned post wasn't an endorsement of the procedure, and it doesn't matter that you were only making a suggestion. All that matters is that you recommended a useless and dangerous treatment, and threw a bitch fit the second someone pointed out that it was useless and dangerous. You need to suck it up and take being corrected like a big boy, without throwing a tantrum. Only a complete moron would respond to my post as if it were some sort of personal attack. What you did was dangerous, and I was far more civil than I should have been when responding to it.

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 10:03 PM
^
You are self-righteous, ignorant, and have added nothing to this thread other than starting an argument..

Seriously, cut it out.

TORSION
10-16-2008, 10:06 PM
woah..
bit of tension in the air in this thread..

thanks heaps for the answers guys, im tryin to get a doctors appointment but its pretty booked out atm..

i dont know if i will try accupuncture, but i think that is actually a really good suggestion, as i would never have thought of that.

i have been putting voltaren emulgel on my wrists a few times a day, and it seems to help with the pain a little.

im glad there is a few cases that people have said they have recovered, i really want to get past this and play again.

i have read cortisone injections can weaken the tendon.. that would affect the strength in my hand, or the ability to play wouldnt it?

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 10:11 PM
woah..
bit of tension in the air in this thread..

thanks heaps for the answers guys, im tryin to get a doctors appointment but its pretty booked out atm..

i dont know if i will try accupuncture, but i think that is actually a really good suggestion, as i would never have thought of that.

i have been putting voltaren emulgel on my wrists a few times a day, and it seems to help with the pain a little.

im glad there is a few cases that people have said they have recovered, i really want to get past this and play again.

i have read cortisone injections can weaken the tendon.. that would affect the strength in my hand, or the ability to play wouldnt it?

Man this acupuncture thing is really being overblown. I was in no way suggesting that you go out and make an appointment for acupuncture. I was just trying to get the idea across that there are many different treatments for tendinitis. You're not limited to cortisone shots and surgery alone. Whatever your doctor suggests is what you should do of-course. I was just throwing out some ideas that I've become aware of through people that I know, and from my own personal research.

how far along is your tendinitis ? are you in constant pain, or is it more a low level burning sensation?

btw I've heard the same about cortisone injections weakening the tendons. a friend of mine with carpal tunnel had cortisone injections. He said that the pain went away for a few weeks, but then ended up coming back even worse. Keep in mind though, that he likely did not rest as he should have. We played digs three nights a week and he does a lot of work with his hands at his job. Had he rested and let his tendon heal during that time he likely would have had a better outcome.

Another friend of mine has been receiving massage therapy and is very happy with the outcome.

You definitely want to consult with a doctor before getting any kind of treatment. In the meantime rest as much as you can and as hard as it is, Hold off on any activity that could exacerbate the injury.

TORSION
10-16-2008, 10:35 PM
yea man i completely understand that u were just making a suggestion, that other guy has just taken it over the top.
i might look into it though.

uhm atm its just kinda sore if i move it the wrong way, or lift something.. i havent had any burning? typing is a little bit painful.. but i can just feel that something isnt right, if u know what i mean.

yea i would definately rest.
i figure that i may aswell not play for a few weeks, rather than the rest of my life if i damage the tendon really badly.. so yea i will definately rest it up.
i mean i cant exactly quit my job, but i can stop working out for a bit, and i havent played guitar for 4/5 weeks now, so i guess a few more wont hurt..

GuitarMunky
10-16-2008, 11:10 PM
yea man i completely understand that u were just making a suggestion, that other guy has just taken it over the top.
i might look into it though.

uhm atm its just kinda sore if i move it the wrong way, or lift something.. i havent had any burning? typing is a little bit painful.. but i can just feel that something isnt right, if u know what i mean.

yea i would definately rest.
i figure that i may aswell not play for a few weeks, rather than the rest of my life if i damage the tendon really badly.. so yea i will definately rest it up.
i mean i cant exactly quit my job, but i can stop working out for a bit, and i havent played guitar for 4/5 weeks now, so i guess a few more wont hurt..


Yeah, there are some things you just can't give up ( like work), but if you take a break from the other stuff for a while, you'll likely be able to get back to them (though you may have to compromise a bit on how much and how often).

sounds like you're on the right track.

Good luck man, hope you have a full recovery!

Freepower
10-16-2008, 11:23 PM
This is ridiculous. Archeo, please do not reply to the latest GM posts in any fashion, as it will no doubt continue this madness.

If either of you have need to continue, or if you take issue with my post, please take do it via PM, or I will simply use my moderater powers and delete the parts of your post which do not directly help the TS.

TS, the three things that led to me developing problems were not warming up, bad posture and too much tension in my left hand.

Hopefully, after you rest, all of those issues can be corrected between the "Read me" link in my sig and the 2 and you shouldn't develop it again. I've had no problems for the last 3 years thanks to correcting those problems and habits. :)

TORSION
10-20-2008, 07:25 AM
ok ill have a read.. hopefully i can get rid of this for good. im going to the doctors tommorrow, so yea..

how do i properly warm up?

and yeh i think i do have bad posture when i play..

Freepower
10-20-2008, 07:34 AM
^ a good way to warm up is to genuinely flap your arms around until they feel warm (playing guitar to warm up won't be as quick, I promise) - and the stretch them out using the stretches in JP's "Rock Discipline" - there's actually a site that gpb recommends that I've forgotten with some good stretches on it.

TORSION
10-20-2008, 07:43 AM
yeh i was thinking of buying the john petrucci book, ive heard that its really good. fairly expensive though. but really theres no price on being able to play again ::)

to warm up i usually just went straight into playing along with trivium songs..
probably not the best idea there i guess..

Freepower
10-20-2008, 07:45 AM
Well, it can be fine if you're fairly loose and have good technique, but it can be terrible if you're tense. Still, always better to warm up (said the massive hypocrite :( )

TORSION
10-20-2008, 07:51 AM
i get like an ache in my shoulder, and bicep, tricep area.. would that be from tensing up my picking hand?

Freepower
10-20-2008, 07:53 AM
Yeah, that and bad posture'll do that. Do you vibrate your arm from the elbow to pick fast?

Try gradually increasing in speed - is there a point where you start using more arm and playing much faster?

TORSION
10-20-2008, 08:01 AM
nah more from the wrist i think, but its not really a free movement.. fairly tensed..


Try gradually increasing in speed - is there a point where you start using more arm and playing much faster?

what do u mean? ^

Freepower
10-20-2008, 08:49 AM
Well, it should be loose anyway. I just meant to try slowly increasing in speed and seeing if you start picking from the arm. A lot of people get their "speed picking" by simply tensing up their elbow so much that it vibrates, which is a terrible, terrible idea. Glad to see you don't. :)

RichieJovie
10-20-2008, 10:04 AM
nah more from the wrist i think, but its not really a free movement.. fairly tensed..


Try gradually increasing in speed - is there a point where you start using more arm and playing much faster?

what do u mean? ^


RELAX

Tensing will do it everytime.

TORSION
10-21-2008, 05:49 AM
well i went to the doctor today, and ive been given anti inflammatory tablets to take..
so the swelling should go down and stop hurting now..
i also showed the doctor a lump on my wrist which is fluid..

and that makes it worst coz there isnt enough room in my wrist..

i can get that drained out too if it doesnt go away with the tablets.. i think.


yea im gonna spend alot of time trying to get a better technique so i dont have this problem again.. :) by relaxing lol

TORSION
10-28-2008, 07:17 AM
so does anyone have any recovery stories they would like to share or something?

give me some hope..
lol

Freepower
10-28-2008, 09:42 AM
Well, I had the start of some problems with both wrists, and now they're completely fine. It was a couple of months off guitar and then removing the tension from my playing that helped me. :)

TORSION
10-29-2008, 06:13 AM
oh ok..
did u have to go to the doctor or anything?
take tablets at all?

Freepower
10-29-2008, 09:55 AM
No, I stopped as soon as problems started, rested until they were gone, and corrected my playing once I started again. It didn't get to the stage where I needed a doctor because I had always heard "If it hurts, STOP!". :)

TORSION
11-02-2008, 07:35 AM
oh ok..
well my wrists are starting to feel a bit better, not so painfull all the time now..
so hopefully ill be able to start playing again soon.

im thinking of going to physio again, just so i can try and get rid of this once and for all :)

Jackolas
11-02-2008, 10:04 AM
Try practising short and often and play with your wrist completely unanchored.

It took me months to get used to that but now I have I feel much more free on the guitar, though it's important to make sure your shoulders and neck are relaxed too (I find this hard as hell).

TORSION
11-03-2008, 07:54 AM
yea ive already gone through the unanchoring thing, had to change my style completely :(

i had to go to the doctor today, because my anti inflammitry tablets were making me sick..
so now i just have strong pain killers..

but its definately getting better :)

TORSION
11-12-2008, 10:49 PM
ok so i dont have to have painkillers very often anymore, only when my wrists really hurt..
so how do i know when to start playing again?

also, how can i make sure i dont get tendonitis again? by changing my technique? tension?

im thinking of getting the john petrucci rock disicpline book too.

Freepower
11-13-2008, 09:54 AM
^ I waited until there was no pain at all doing anything.

To avoid it, warm up before you play - this means actually physically shaking out your arms until you can feel them tingle a bit. "Warm up exercises" are incredibly slow at warming you up.

Next thing is posture. Bad posture will screw anyone over. Covered in first link in my sig.

Ditto for tension. :)

Overall, take it slow, take it easy.

TORSION
11-14-2008, 03:23 AM
ok cool, i decided im gonna wait 2 more weeks so that i can just be sure that its all good before i start playing again.

i will read those links later, i cant atm.. but yea thanks for the advice..

do u recommend the john petrucci rock discipline book?

Freepower
11-14-2008, 11:04 AM
Well, not really tbh, it's 9/10 exercises and doesn't cover truly slow practice at all.

Exercises you can download or compose.

The part that would be good for you are the warm ups and stretches, but tbh, you can basically warm up by shaking your arms around and stretches are pretty simple as well...

SZ320man
11-14-2008, 11:23 AM
A suggestion for work, when I hurt my wrist in a car wreck, I wrapped my wrists with wrist-wraps I used to use for boxing... they're cotton so they don't really compress like an ace bandage does, but they give a lot of support to your wrists. I work with different machines, as well as desk work. My wrists take plenty of abuse.

Note: I'm not a doctor, and don't claim to be one. I could be completely wrong about this, but it did help me. You might call your doc and ask about it before you try.

Nickie Vicious
11-14-2008, 08:21 PM
I having reccuring tendonitis in my right wrist. It hurts a lot when I play heavily for more than fifteen minutes, so I always keep a wrsit brace handy (good times at the airport!). try keeping some near you. It takes a bit of getting used to, but its possible. when you\re working try ace bandages (or a wrist brace if you\re not worried about electrocution! I'm deathly paranoid about it.). I beleieve (I hasn't been to a doctor about it for years) its caused by the tendon contracting, and I was told surgery is possible to permanently correct it. Or a cast.

DCobsession
11-14-2008, 10:55 PM
MSM...(Methylsulfonylmethane) ...you have to take vitamin C with them. can get it at any health food/vitamin store.

Had "throw my arse down on the floor" pain in one of my shoulders (tendinitis) that some pretty hard pain killers wouldnt even help (neither would celebrex, or any other type of antiinflammatory med would fix). My dad gave me some MSM, and within a day, ALL pain was gone. couple of years later it came back (even worse), and the MSM knocked it out again...

not going to go into detail on what it is, or what it does...google it. Its good Sh*t

TORSION
11-15-2008, 02:29 AM
yeh i thought maybe i should bandage them up, but i never really needed to, the pain is nearly gone i think.

so hopefully i can get back into playing in a few weeks :)

DCobsession
11-17-2008, 07:07 PM
Im tellin ya, this stuff will have you playing tomorrow...

only draw back was when the pain was severe, I took 5-6 of them (good sized capsules), along with 2 Vit C's. twice a day...a lot of pills to put in my stomache at one time, but it was WELL worth it.

now if I even think it is coming back, I take 2-3 of them with 1 vit C, twice, and it goes away.

dont know the severity of your pain, but mine was effin crippling...but that was long ago. sad thing is, I see/hear people talk about tendinitis pain, and I tell them, but they dont find the stuff...oh well, I tried to spread the word, their loss...

bangoodcharlote
11-17-2008, 07:36 PM
Yeah, so my guess is that any med student or resident doesn't have time to post on the website, and you're not going to find any attendings on here. This is a medical issue; go see a physician.

GuitarMunky
11-17-2008, 08:07 PM
Yeah, so my guess is that any med student or resident doesn't have time to post on the website, and you're not going to find any attendings on here. This is a medical issue; go see a physician.

He already did.

yeh i thought maybe i should bandage them up, but i never really needed to, the pain is nearly gone i think.

so hopefully i can get back into playing in a few weeks :)

Have you tried stretching at all ?

if not, I would highly recommend looking into this book:

Conquering carpal tunnel syndrome (http://www.amazon.com/Conquering-Carpal-Tunnel-Syndrome-Repetitive/dp/1572240393)

Though the title says carpal tunnel syndrome, the stretches are effective for any type of tendinitis/ repetitive strain injury.

This book is very helpful as well: It's not carpal tunnel syndrome (http://www.amazon.com/Carpal-Syndrome-Therapy-Computer-Professionals/dp/0965510999)

It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is more informative, but does include exercises, and like Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, it is helpful for any form of tendinitis or repetitive strain injury.

bangoodcharlote
11-17-2008, 09:03 PM
He already did. Then why is the TS asking us?

TS, I assure you that every doctor trained in America, Canada, Australia, or the UK is very good at what he does. Listen to him. Don't ask us. We're a bunch of premeds struggling through organic chemistry at best.

GuitarMunky
11-17-2008, 09:30 PM
Then why is the TS asking us?

TS, I assure you that every doctor trained in America, Canada, Australia, or the UK is very good at what he does. Listen to him. Don't ask us. We're a bunch of premeds struggling through organic chemistry at best.

If you read through the thread you'll see he went weeks ago.

post 41:

well i went to the doctor today, and ive been given anti inflammatory tablets to take..
so the swelling should go down and stop hurting now..
i also showed the doctor a lump on my wrist which is fluid..

and that makes it worst coz there isnt enough room in my wrist..

i can get that drained out too if it doesnt go away with the tablets.. i think.


yea im gonna spend alot of time trying to get a better technique so i dont have this problem again.. :) by relaxing lol






While none of us are doctors, some of us just may have experience with tendonitis (not uncommon for musicians) and be able to offer worthwhile advice.

As far as every trained doctor being good at what they do. There are good & bad everything.... doctors included. I've found that people with RSI often go to many doctors (and spend lots of money) before finding any help. Unfortunate, but true.

Freepower
11-17-2008, 10:59 PM
Indeedly. There are many tiny particular movements involving the hands and instrumental technique that you just can't expect a doctor to know about.

For example, how many doctors could help solve a problem caused by wrist tension when changing to a thumb position in double bass technique?

There is a wealth of information here for people who need to develop technique that is as physically gentle on their hands as possible. :)

Archeo Avis
11-17-2008, 11:14 PM
For example, how many doctors could help solve a problem caused by wrist tension when changing to a thumb position in double bass technique?

Double bass technique isn't a medical condition. Carpal tunnel syndrome is.

Freepower
11-17-2008, 11:19 PM
^ exactly. If you want to cure CTS, go to a doctor. If you want to cure an obscure musical cause of CTS, go to a good teacher and review your physical approach to the instrument.

GuitarMunky
11-17-2008, 11:37 PM
^
good point, it's important to focus on the cause of the injury.

People often get treated for their symptoms ( with painkillers, cortisone shots, or surgery) but not the causes. This is a real problem for people with repetitive strain injurys.

Many of the success stories I've read about often involve a doctor that is a musician and/or specializes in musician related injuries. Unfortunately those doctors are harder to find.


Also regarding technique on the guitar, while it certainly can be the cause and should be examined thoroughly, it's important to consider everything else in your life that may be contributing to the problem. ( I know you know that, I just wanted to add it because I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread).

TORSION
11-19-2008, 07:23 AM
well i didnt think the doctor really knew what they were on about..
she told me not to stop guitar.. but not to play as much..

i thought with any injuries u had to stop completely..

i have stretching exercises and strengthening exercises from last time i went to the physio, but yea..
it came back..

thats why im looking for advice.

Freepower
11-19-2008, 09:49 AM
^ yeah, it'll come back until you tackle the cause - definately tension, maybe bad posture too. :)

TORSION
11-20-2008, 07:14 AM
so am i basically gonna have to re learn picking and all that sorta stuff again, with no tension at all..

and bring it up to speed?

will this take a long time?

GuitarMunky
11-20-2008, 12:45 PM
so am i basically gonna have to re learn picking and all that sorta stuff again, with no tension at all..

and bring it up to speed?

will this take a long time?

Make sure you analyze what you're doing in all aspects of your life. Your guitar playing technique is likely not your only issue.


How often were you playing?
what other things do you do that might contribute (work, other hobbies.....)?
look at your posture in general (sitting, standing, at the computer)
look at your computers set up (is it ergonomic ??)
Do you have alot of stress in your life?

Lots of factors contribute to RSI. Playing guitar certainly can be one of them, but I wouldn't Isolate your attention to just that unless you're absolutely positive that it's the sole cause.

Freepower
11-20-2008, 01:37 PM
^ +1

so am i basically gonna have to re learn picking and all that sorta stuff again, with no tension at all..

and bring it up to speed?

will this take a long time?

Well, yes, but you won't regret it at all. Basically, what you'll have to do to avoid injury is what most people have to do to play faster and more accurately - so your guitar playing will feel better and be better too. :)

TORSION
11-21-2008, 08:49 AM
i see..

well i work out.. that hasnt put too much pain on my wrists, until last night.. my wrist is a little sore today..
my karate doesnt really hurt them at all..
work does sometimes, but hasnt lately, thats why i felt like i was ready to start playing again..
i dont think im stressed?

yeh well if it means playing slow and building up just to get rid of this crap, then ill do it..
i just wanna play again!!

GuitarMunky
11-21-2008, 11:10 AM
^ they may or may not hurt during the activity, but all of the things you mentioned are likely contributors to your RSI. You may want to give up all but the necessary things (like work), for a while to give yourself a chance to heal. Then slowly integrate them back into your life.

I would highly recommend doing some real research on RSI.

It's not carpal tunnel syndrome (http://www.amazon.com/Carpal-Syndrome-Therapy-Computer-Professionals/dp/0965510999) is a good place to start.

TORSION
12-11-2008, 07:19 AM
ok so i havent had any pain at all lately, just feels a bit uncomfortable every now and again
i played for about half an hour yesterday and today.

my wrist seems to have become a little bit painful again..

how do i go about fixing this??
im becoming desperate

i watched your lessons on posture, and correct practice FreePower, and i think im doing the posture stuff right, but i think i have alot of tension in my playing..
how do i remove it??

help!

Freepower
12-11-2008, 10:25 AM
Well, you have to first make sure you sit comfortably, so that there's no tension being caused by simply holding the guitar and your posture. That takes a while to get used to. The next thing is to make sure all your movements are as small and relaxed as possible. That means not letting your pinky curl up when playing, never exerting more pressure than you need to, and no extraneous movement at all.

One thing I'd recommend is not doing any string bending for a while, as it's very physically difficult and tough to do with any degree of looseness.

Also, this may seem a bit drastic, but perhaps invest in lighter strings and lower action.

renz777
12-11-2008, 11:18 PM
Hey TORSION!

Just to let you know that you are not alone in your situation. I also have pain in my left hand and that, for now 2 years. I have visited 3 doctors, 2 physiotherapists (which have helped a lot) and many other weird peoples :P

Last summer I was unable to touch guitar at all. After many sessions of stretches im now able to play 15-30 min a day. What I do is after I play guitar I stretch right away. I have found that it helped me a lot.

I will now order thoses two books which guitarMunky talked about. I will also try to change my posture and to practice slower like FreePower shows in his youtube vids. Btw FreePower I think that you are a genius! :P Ill watch all your vids and take as much as I can out of them. It would be great if they'd convinse me to start over slower since I know that its the most efficient way to practice but ohhhwwww that'd be hard.

Anyway, good luck and I hope we will both work this out soon.

Freepower
12-11-2008, 11:21 PM
Well, I'm definately, definately - definately - not a genius. :p:

:o :heart:

Thankee.

TORSION
12-12-2008, 12:14 AM
i have 42-9s on already, with a low action..
i havent really been doing any bending either, all i have done while playing is figured out the intro to insurrection by trivium, and jammed out a few times to that..

but i have noticed that i have alot of tension while doing the fast downpicking stuff..
could that be the cause?

i dont think i have alot of tension in my fretting hand, but i will definately work to make sure there is none at all..

also to renz777- sorry to hear you also are in this situation... how much does it suck hey. not being able to do the thing you love so much.. :(
what stretches do you do btw?

renz777
12-12-2008, 12:28 AM
uh that'd be hard to explain ..

I am streching the forearm pulling my fingers downward with my palm facing up then facing down. There is also a stretch where I lay my palm down on the table with fingers facing toward me.

Thoses help a lot. I also use some low weight dumbells to reinforce the forearm.

But as I said it helped but did not resolve completely the problem. Maybe someone has faced the same situation and has solved it?

TORSION
12-12-2008, 12:32 AM
oh ok, my physio that i went to at the start of the year gave me ones where it was kinda like a praying sorta thing?? like pushed my palms together.
lol

i do dumbells too, he also gave me a resistance band to strengthen the muscles, but i havent got into that yet.

im really thinking about giving the physio thing another go.
im sick of this :(

yea i havent been told of anyone getting rid of it for good i dont think...
any one wanna share some stories??

renz777
12-12-2008, 12:35 AM
Heh im kind of tired of paying for stuff that doesn't help me. I'll try out those books with the "Freepower method" of playing without tension. I'm convinced I can resolve this by myself since it doesn't hurt while not playing guitar. I

I have the resistance band too which I never used. I think its pretty much the same thing as the dumbells.

TORSION
12-12-2008, 02:27 AM
haha well good luck mate.
hope u can get rid of it soon!

misspatty86
12-12-2008, 04:03 PM
you should ask your doctor about that but your tension is probably too high on your guitar. go to your nearest guitar store and ask them for help.

TORSION
12-14-2008, 07:37 AM
guitar store?

like a shop?

Freepower
02-11-2009, 08:28 AM
Does anyone mind if I archive this for reference?

TORSION
02-12-2009, 06:15 AM
not at all, go ahead :)

uhmm im slowly getting back into playing btw, still too much tension especially in my picking hand while doing fast down picking, and alternate picking..

while ur here lol, how do i go about changing this?

Freepower
02-12-2009, 09:43 AM
You have to go through what makes you tense really slowly and remove all the bad habits that are making you tense when you do that.

So, take fast down picking. See if you can spot what it is makes you tense up - ie, do you try and go too fast? Use too much pick? Make too large a movement? Tense up your shoulder (very common)?

When you find these bad habits, correct them by practicing and making sure you're doing it right, no matter how slow you go. That pretty much applies to every technique there is. :)

TORSION
02-13-2009, 04:51 AM
well yes i am trying to play fast stuff.. and i think the problem is tensing up in my shoulder and forearm..

so basically i just have to slow it down, so that there is no tension at all and then speed it up gradually?

sounds easy enough..

Freepower
02-13-2009, 10:11 AM
Sounds easy enough, but it's a lot of work and you have to pay attention at all times. Check the "Speed building" thread in the technique archives for more info. :)

TORSION
02-15-2009, 02:09 AM
yea it never is easy.. ill just try my best tho.
so i can get through this crap haha

ok will do mate,
cheers :)

Freepower
02-15-2009, 11:33 AM
Ok, I'ma archiving this now, because there are a lot of questions regarding tendonitis and such and this thread covers most of the major points to do with prevention. :)